Horrible street suspension setup, need help.

[cyb]

Ok guys, I need your help. Here's my setup: Tein springs, KYB AGXs, and ES master kit - red rubber everywhere. This is a 2nd car, and will eventually have the full Monte (I'm 29, not dreaming.)

I got the bushings done before fixing anything else b/c the OEM stuff was shot. Every day since I have hated this car.

Removing the rear sway bar and the installing subframe collars helped the ride quality marginally. But this setup is dangerous. The car pops in the air like a pogo stick.

What are my options here to get rid of these bushings? I think that would solve my problem.

[VNG704]

"pops in the air like a pogo stick" ...what are the conditions of your kyb? are they dead?

[thefro526]

Pops up in the air like a pogo stick is a new one.

Are you saying that the car bounces a lot? Usually that's due to blown struts or something of that nature.

Can you describe the conditions under which the cars bounces?

[Katsumbhong]

sounds like your shocks are on their last legs if not already shot.

[PoorMans180SX]

sounds like your shocks are on their last legs if not already shot.

Yup. And did you lube up all the bushings really well before you put them in? You could have some nasty suspension bind, which would not be helping ride quality.

[Ceepo]

Yeah, those bushings require you to lube them, hope you did before pressing them in, also check strucks(leaking oil, no rebound, ect...)

[cyb]

The bushings were installed by my local Nissan dealer to the tune of about $1,500.00 (D'oh! Live and learn, eh?)

Shocks, springs, red ES busings, subframe collars, z32 EBC/Brembo brakes, ss lines are new and installed correctly.

I ditched the Z33 wheels recently in favor of 16" z32 wheels and I'm still not happy with the ride.

Because it's lowered slightly with the Tein springs, and wearing tires, I guess I need some adjustable arms to fix my camber issues.

On smooth-as-glass roads it's a good setup. In the real world filled with dips, gravel, and expansion joints, the ride is unbearable for a street car. The dampening I'm pleased with. It's firm, but well controlled. It's the "crashing over bumps" and harsh impacts and the bounces you out of the seat and into the headliner that don't work for me. The car has the dynamics of a children's bouncy ball on concrete. Now I know, I'm not 18 anymore, but I've had a metric ton of modified imports with coils, shocks, springs, and the works, and never had anything so uncomfortable.

That being said, I guess I'm asking is: what are my options to: improve my ride quality, get rid of these bushings, and fix negative camber (tires wearing on the inside)?

To my knowledge you can't get OEM bushings without buying the entire suspension arm assembly. I'm looking at getting a full Circuit Sports set of arms, but the only thing holding me back is the metal heim joints. That can't be an improvement in ride quality.

My goal for the car is to have a fast (ls2 or sr20), reliable street car that I can take on a 4 hour trip in relative comfort.

If I could have the equivalent ride of a Honda Civic with Skunk 2 Coils that would be awesome.

[cyb]

It's a little redundant, but they were lubed well when put in and these are all "new in the box from Enjuku" kinda parts.

Being from a rural little town, there's a lot of gravel in my life.

[cyb]

The binding bushings idea is intriguing, and I really appreciate the help, but I think it's more an issue of bad roads and unforgiving polyurethane.

Those leaky silicone-filled factory bushings don't get enough credit sometimes. :)

[aznpoopy]

bushings are not there to soak up any bump/vibration from the road. factory uses soft rubber because it doesn't have a sleeve that rotates in the rubber. instead, the entire bushing twists/warps to allow the suspension to move.

as you might imagine, this adds a bit of bind to the suspension. lubed poly should have less. seized poly will have much, much more. in sum, bushings are for rotation. spring is to soak up dips and bumps.

aftermarket will get expensive to do everything. you'll need all arms + bushings for rear spindle + bushings for LCAs. your bushing options suck as well, especially if what you say about factory bushings is true. i have never seen factory replacements sold individually. its usually either poly or spherical.

cheapest solution for you is find stock arms + stock spindle. trade your ES pressed stuff, get some cash back, you'll have your factory bushings back.

before you do anything though, i suggest lubing them up first to see if that helps. costs like $15 for a tube of grease and an hour or two of time. real easy. you say they were lubed up when installed... doesn't matter, because unfortunately, the grease works its way out over time, leaving it all dry. a few people have installed grease fittings so they can lube it up quickly with a gun (search if you're curious)

[thefro526]

Eh, I'm a bit lost on this issue.

You say the ride is bouncy, but the dampening feels good. I guess that would mean that the shocks/struts aren't blown?

The issue with diagnosing suspension feel issues over the internet is that suspension feel is a very subjective issue. What one person thinks is bearable is usually way different than what others consider to be bearable.

As far as your alignment woes though, a decent set of adjustable arms would fix your problem.

[cyb]

I have seen the grease fittings threads. The only problem with that is the car exhibited the exact same behavior as soon as the bushings were installed (and they were lubed with the provided grease.) You are correct, they probably need lubing, but they only squeak when it's very cold. The ride quality has never changed.

But I have to disagree on bushings not acting as (albeit tiny) shock absorbers. Anything you place in between two pieces of metal and then sit on top of is going to transmit NVH. Think about solid mounts, or metal sub frame bushings. Ouch.

The only flaw I see in getting used arms and spindles is the tendency for them to be exactly what I started with: cracked and leaky factory busings. I would almost rather order every piece brand new from Nissan.

Does anyone have any experience with the NISMO bushings? In their description it plainly states "not bouncy like polyurethane, but upgraded performance" or something like that.

Or does anyone has any experience with the shock and spring combo I am using and adjustable suspension arms?

I know it's not easy to diagnose something so subjective over the internet, but put it this way: my friends and I are experienced (and eccentric) car junkies with years of experience. And we all agree this setup sucks for a street car.

Surely somebody out there is happy with their overall suspension setup, feel free to chime in if you have any helpful advice. Thanks again guys.

[az_240]

Sounds like the bushings are binding.

Sometimes those ES bushings are a tad too long and they stick out past the metal sleeves... when you tighten the arm the bracket will sandwich the bushing causing it to bind making it very hard for the suspension to move up and down. No amount of grease can fix this. This can lead to bent/broken arms later down the line.

My old ES bushings did this... made the ride quality horrible on semi bumpy roads.

Best thing to fix this is to either take everything apart and sand/shave the bushings slightly(not too much or it will cause the arms to move around during suspension travel which will change settings) so the metal sleeves stick out past the bushings like they are supposed to or do what aznpoopy said and trade for stock stuff.

[bb4_96]

IMO 240sx rides harsh stock. Suspensions upgrades probably don't help much.

[Def]

Urethane is a HORRIBLE suspebsion bushing material. Everytime I've used it vie been disappointed because the friction increase(what you're feeling) is huge, even with lots of grease on the bushing. Suspension loads push grease out, and urethane is a naturally "grabby" material.

Start saving up for adjustable arms with rod ends and spherical bearings. I wouldn't waste time lubingthe bushings, it won't help much and the problem will return shortly.

[cyb]

Great advice guys.

I was all set to check for bushing binding and to re-lube, but I think I'm going to have to go with Def's recommendation. Would that be suitable for a street car for years to come? I said this is a 2nd car, but it's really about a 5th or 6th. But that doesn't mean it will not get driven - quite the contrary.

What's the best bang-for-buck adjustable arm setup out there? I don't mind paying for quality; refuse to support China; But Taiwan's o.k. in a pinch.

Basically, no huge JDM tight tax. Based on previous luck with their product, I'm leaning towards that Circuit Sports package. I'd rather put money saved into a well-sorted LSx swap and one of those slick new sick speeds.

Also, will I need to get any additional bushings to be ready to install?

Thanks a million for the help. I'm ready to pull the trigger and get back on this project.

[aznpoopy]

yes. even if you get all arms, you may still have ES bushings in the front and rear LCA and bushings pressed into the rear spindle. depends on what the shop did and did not install.

for arms, i'd stick with battle version, powered by max and maybe SPL. are heims suitable for "years to come?" maybe. experience may vary. but probably not. the heims are replaceable, but don't doubt for a second they are definitively a wear item and they are not going to last you 5-10 years like a stock bushing.

on that note, SPC offers a rubber bushing ended adjustable arm, which sounds like it might be the best option for you in terms of cost and longevity.

[Def]

Circuit Sports = China

I'd go SPL. You can replace all 6 rod ends in the rear for ~$15/ea if they wear out in the future, but I don't see why you couldn't get 50k+ miles of them since they're a quality QA1 rod end.

The bushings in your uprights aren't going to do you any favors like aznpoopy said, but what's done is done. I'm all out of upright spherical bearings from the recent GB, so can't help you there.

The biggest thing that will help is if you have urethane bushings in your front tension rods - those are horrible. Get a set of SPL tension rods up there and you'll get rid of a ton of friction.

[cyb]

Were it not for the prevalence of gravel roads and dippy pavement in my area, I would be all over the adjustable arms (SPL, etc.) with the heim joints. But I think my daily duties might be better served with rubber than squeaky heim joints. I just couldn't see myself oiling heim joints on a regular basis.

I think the SPC setup with the rubber bushings looks right up my alley.
Thanks for the recommendation. I think that's exactly what I have been looking for!

Do you know a good cheap source to get an entire kit? I see some stuff listed on Summit Racing but it looks like you have to buy in pieces unlike here:

Nissan 95-98 240SX (RWD) SPC Performance Camber Kits (Up to 1.5" to 3.0" Drop) (http://www.racinglab.com/spc-camber-kit-090.html)

[modulation]

Ok guys, I need your help. Here's my setup: Tein springs, KYB AGXs, and ES master kit - red rubber everywhere. This is a 2nd car, and will eventually have the full Monte (I'm 29, not dreaming.)

I got the bushings done before fixing anything else b/c the OEM stuff was shot. Every day since I have hated this car.

Removing the rear sway bar and the installing subframe collars helped the ride quality marginally. But this setup is dangerous. The car pops in the air like a pogo stick.

What are my options here to get rid of these bushings? I think that would solve my problem.

If you have Tein sport springs, they might be too stiff for your kyb's.

[S14DB]

http://zilvia.net/f/suspension/283005-alignment-special-spc-camber-kits-toe-kits-caster-kits-350z-g35-s13-s14.html


Removing the rear sway making it better is a sign that the RLCA is binding up.

You can ether replace the whole RLCA with the Nismo arms or just buy the bushings. Then press out the bushings in the rear knuckle and replace with nismos.

[cyb]

I've thought about that, too, believe me. Designed in Japan (for smooth-as-glass Japanese roads.)

ES bushings were the first upgrade I made. I ran them with OEM springs/shocks for a week or two and still had this problem. I still think 90% of my problem is the bushings, but I like where your head's at. What springs would be good for daily-like duties?

(I threw my OEM ones away. :( )

[Katsumbhong]

Can you give us a full spec sheet about your car's suspension, line break, all nice and typed out including wheel sizes, tires, your tire psi. It would really help give us a better idea of what you are working with. I know you gave us a little spec sheet about the suspension, but tire/wheel sizing would help too.

[drift freaq]

Well no one has spoken up about this but I will. Tein springs suck balls period. They are known to sag after 2 thousand miles. They have terrible spring dyno results on top of that.
KYB AGX's are ok but you are still dealing with a Japanese shock designed for smooth roads. With a stiff spring AGX's indeed will be bouncy.
If you are looking for a smoother ride street suspension? At least get Espelier springs and actually if you pair them with Tokico Blue's, you will get a smoother ride than the AGX setup. Yes, they are still Japanese but in my opinion, Tokico makes a better shock than KYB does.
In the spring shock department, you are always going to make some compromise's.

I personally would say run Koni's with Espelier springs or Eibachs, and you would have a pretty dope non height adjustable suspension that would be lower than stock but not slammed.

If you want super low or height adjustability than Coilovers is the next step. That is a whole other ball of wax as far as ride and quality goes as well.

[slider2828]

Seriously, it sounds like this guy is looking for a kush ride.... Any type of suspension modifications going to feel like crap if he has bumpy roads....

240sx = not comfortable... If you looking for comfortable, by a Lexus.... Seriously.....

And if your car pops in the air like a pogo stick, you either have 0 suspension travel and/or your driving on unpaved roads... Either way, 240 is not a kush ride like a lexus.... sooner or later there is going to be kreaking here and there, poping from panels, shit falling apart.... don't bother with 240s....

[cyb]

Couple of Question about the SPC kit:

1.) Doesn't that full kit (the link you sent) come with adjustable RLCA anyway? If so, since I've want to fix negative camber for tire wear, I might just pick up one of the whole kits 'cause I would need RUCAs, too.

2.) That front camber kit with the camber plates. Do I need that with just Tein springs and is that a cut and weld in affair or does it just bolt there at the shock towers?

Either way, thanks a ton for the link. I'm going to pick one of these two options up in the next 10 minutes:


Rear Camber, Rear Toe, Front Caster = $440 SHIPPED!!!

Rear Camber, Rear Toe, Front Caster, Front Camber = $730 SHIPPED!!!

[cyb]

I'm fully aware of compromises in modified vehicles. I've been driving them for 13 years with springs, shocks, coil overs, low-profiles, swaps and turbos where they did and didn't belong.

I have two Benzs, two trucks, a z32 and yes, this week I almost bought a Lexus, too. All I'm looking for is a well-sorted 240 without any springy ass polyurethane. I'm fully aware of what they are and aren't.

[S14DB]

The way that the 90's Nissan's suspensions are designed the shocks on the 240sx, 300zx and Sentra/200sx are short stroke stock.

Any lowering spring is not going to be happy with stock style shocks. You ether have to run a shock designed for lowering springs or replace them every 2 yrs.

I gave up the first time they blew and went coilovers and never looked back.

[S14DB]

Couple of Question about the SPC kit:

1.) Doesn't that full kit (the link you sent) come with adjustable RLCA anyway? If so, since I've want to fix negative camber for tire wear, I might just pick up one of the whole kits 'cause I would need RUCAs, too.

2.) That front camber kit with the camber plates. Do I need that with just Tein springs and is that a cut and weld in affair or does it just bolt there at the shock towers?

Either way, thanks a ton for the link. I'm going to pick one of these two options up in the next 10 minutes:


Rear Camber, Rear Toe, Front Caster = $440 SHIPPED!!!

Rear Camber, Rear Toe, Front Caster, Front Camber = $730 SHIPPED!!!

The only RLCA's are going to be the Ikea Formula style of it with bearings or the Nismo arms.
- SPL PARTS (http://splparts.com/store/product-info.php?pid112.html)

I can't find the nismo arms but the bushings are about $20 each. They look like the stock ones only silver with Nismo bushings and a relocated ball joint for lowered cars.
Genuine OEM Nissan Rear Lower Control Arms 95-98 S14 Nissan 240SX (http://www.frsport.com/Genuine-OEM-Nissan-Rear-Lower-Control-Arms-95-98-S14-Nissan-240SX_p_14377.html)

[cyb]

I agree on the 90's Nissans design, KYBs and Tein Springs sucking balls 100%. The only reason I bought them in the first place was they were cheap, and I was tired of pouring money into suspension and brakes and ready to get started on the go-fast stuff. This has been an ass-backwards build from the start, so coil overs are definitely the plan, but after the power adding stuff (that we all usually do first!).

Here's the list of mods in order:

(alum.) Z32 calipers, EBC and Brembo rotors - EBC red stuff pads, SS lines, R33 Skyline e-brake cable (all new in the box.)
ES Red Bushing Master Kit.
KYB AGX / Tein Springs
Rear sway bar delete
Aluminum subframe bushing collars.
Z33 touring wheels with meaty Dunlops in Z33 sizing (the idea was OEM quality wheel, and taller profile, staggered fitment tires.
Hated the z33 wheels (HEAVY!), so I put them on the Z32 and stole the wheels off the Z for the 240.
Tire size right now is 225 50 r16.

I've been reading some really good things about KW coilovers at MotoIQ (Dave Coleman & Co.) I know they're a sponsor over there, but from everything I've read they seem like what I might end up with. Right now I want to get rid of the poly and get some long-term tire wear and adjustable arms.

[Def]

My Koni 8611/8610 setup with fairly high rates(500/380) rides very nice for the rates and how much the car weighs. You just have to have a nice damper to control the car's motion and not transmit impacts.


Crappy coilovers are worthless given how poorly they ride(Stance, lower end Tein, Godspeed, K-Sport, D2, KTS - all that stuff is basically junk).

[cyb]

Konis are definitely high (if not the top) on my list of things to come: Race proven, precise, rebuild-able. But that is going to wait until after the power department. Agreed on the eBay-quality coilover du jours. It's a shame more folks don't realize that before they end up in back-surgery one day.

All I'm looking to do with this thing is drive some wicked mountain roads on the weekends and have enough comfort to drive it to work or a few hours out to VIR for a Ferrari or Audi track day once in a while. I love the light weight, balance, and RWD chasis. I've always been a sucker for Z cars, but the ones I like are just pigs in the weight and complexity department. ;)

Right now I'm torn between the OEM fitment SR20 and LS chevy motor. Care to chime in on what it would take with either of those to put you out in front of a trust-funder in a Ferrari 360? That would be icing on the cake. Half of me wants a complex little boosted 4 banger, the other says "use your head and just start with the chevy motor."

[n8RPS13]

Get some Swift springs. Im running Megan track edition coilovers with Swift springs now and I live in San Diego and I have a decently comfortable ride even with the crappy road quality.

[az_240]

Sphericals are the best option as far as performance but they are pricey, transmit more road noise and you have to replace them every so often... not really worth it on a daily driven car.

Poly bushings are fine if you go through each one and make sure it is not binding/being sandwiched by the brackets... If you are worried about grease squeezing out install zerk fittings..it's pretty easy.

I would NOT recommend SPL or any other spherical tension rods for a daily driven car. The ride gets way harsh. The SPC arms or Nismo bushings are a much better option for tension rods. Just be sure to tighten those rubber bushings with the car on the ground(or jack the LCA up until the car lifts slightly) or they will twist apart during suspension travel.


As for springs/shocks/coils on a daily I would recommend the Tein Flex coils or the Stance LX. Both very comfortable coils that do great on semi bumpy roads.

[drift freaq]

Sphericals are the best option as far as performance but they are pricey, transmit more road noise and you have to replace them every so often... not really worth it on a daily driven car.

Poly bushings are fine if you go through each one and make sure it is not binding/being sandwiched by the brackets... they have less stiction than the stock bushings, stiffer and give more range of motion. If you are worried about grease squeezing out install zerk fittings..it's pretty easy.

I would NOT recommend SPL or any other spherical tension rods for a daily driven car. The ride gets way harsh. The SPC arms or Nismo bushings are a much better option for tension rods. Just be sure to tighten those rubber bushings with the car on the ground(or jack the LCA up until the car lifts slightly) or they will twist apart during suspension travel.


As for springs/shocks/coils on a daily I would recommend the Tein Flex coils or the Stance LX. Both very comfortable coils that do great on semi bumpy roads.


This sounds like hearsay on your part. I have run Spherical Tension rods on many cars and not had an ounce of ride harshness. Why? Well partly because TC rods have nothing to do with ride and everything to do with setting caster and are related to steering input. LOL

I have driven/owned and ridden in cars with full spherical ends instead of bushings and I can say the ride is not harsher. Perhaps a tad noisy not harsh though.

Again you recommend to him shocks that are ok but not excellent and I have driven/ridden both setups you recommend. Honestly it goes beyond what he is trying to go for and truthfully neither were ideal in my opinion as there were bounce and rebound issues albeit slight different with each brand.

Not saying they are bad but if he is having issues with KYB's and tein springs already what you have recommended is not going to be any better. IMO.

Plus he has already stated that he knows and feels Koni are very high up the list of ideal in his own eyes.
At this point given that one would say that him getting Koni Yellows and Espelier or Swift springs would probably be the most ideal for what he is after now.
Plus doing that later he could modify the Koni's to be a coilover setup if he so desired.

[GripTerror]

I once spent lots of money foolishly like you did (haha 1500$) on polyurethane bushings.. i went with whitelines (expensive) and it sucked.. sure it made initially everything 'tight and new like' but after a while it was just crashing noises.

When I went to sphericals all around = best decision of my life.. feels NICE... less noises, crashing, more comfrotable, more smooth, more precise... etc... and of course adjustable!

I also had kyb agx + tein springs.... it sucked... and I finally went with koni 8611s just as Def and what a world of difference.. on top of that I run even higher spring rates than Def. I will probably go to softer springs once I get roll center adjusted (drop spindles I want them).

You won't be dissapointed with konis.. it'll be better than any of the japanese multi color offerings...

In regards to motor choice.. if you can afford the ls v8.. go for it... there is no replacement for displacement... and most of the weight of that swap is in the transmission which is all worth it.

Best of luck :)

[az_240]

This sounds like hearsay on your part. I have run Spherical Tension rods on many cars and not had an ounce of ride harshness. Why? Well partly because TC rods have nothing to do with ride and everything to do with setting caster and are related to steering input. LOL


Interesting.

I had the SPL tension arms and it was ridiculous how harsh it made the road feel. It's like feeling every crack in the road. Others have said the same.

Immediately went with Nismo bushings in the stock tension rods (didnt change anything else) and it made everything much smoother on semi rough roads.

This is actual experience on my part.

I have heard great things about the Koni setup(besides not being able to go low enough) however I have never been in a s-chassis with that setup so I cannot comment.

I have ridden in s-chassis with Tein Flexes and the Stance LX coils that I mentioned and the ride was very smooth(stock bushings in both)... not bouncy at all. I'd definitely recommend either for someone that wants a sportier feel while getting groceries.

As for the sphericals I really just meant the uprights/LCAs...should have probably mentioned that. The adjustable multi-link is fine for a daily.

[unreal-]

I had the SPL tension arms and it was ridiculous how harsh it made the road feel. It's like feeling every crack in the road. Others have said the same.


I recently upgraded to the SPL tension rods, and they definitely made the ride much harsher. Even with my crappy springs/shocks i cringe when i hit bumps in the road. I can almost drive by feel, with my eyes closed. IMO its worth the upgrade (steering feel, handling, etc), if you can deal with the added harshness.

[Crazyirish]

because TC rods have nothing to do with ride
If thats the case I wonder why Nissan put huge silicon filled bushings there and nowhere else on the car. I guess Nissan's engineers don't know much about suspension components.

[aznpoopy]

if you get alot of caster out of the t/c rod you will introduce bind on the front LCA.

i am going to guess the bad ride quality has more to do with this than the fact it has a heim on it.

[az_240]

if you get alot of caster out of the t/c rod you will introduce bind on the front LCA.

i am going to guess the bad ride quality has more to do with this than the fact it has a heim on it.

I left the tension rod the same length as stock... it's the heim.

[Def]

I have sphericals and rod ends everywhere and my car rides just fine, better than any other coilover over equipped 240SX, and it's more track oriented than most.

Sphericals and rod ends will make crappy dampers more apparent as it forces them to actually be the compliant members of the suspension vs. relying on all the bushings(which is horrible for handling, makes the car just feel vague).

[drift freaq]

If thats the case I wonder why Nissan put huge silicon filled bushings there and nowhere else on the car. I guess Nissan's engineers don't know much about suspension components.

No Nissan engineers put silicon filled bushings on the TC rods because they wanted deflective movement capability. That is something a heim joint can handle because its a joint. Plus Silicon filled rubber bushes are a lot cheaper than putting heim joints on. LOL

Your logic is weak as Nissan also put insanely soft springs and dampers in the cars as well, which do induce body roll . Would you say they did it because they knew what they were doing, or was it because they were designing it for drivers who would not demand more from the car? By your logic above its brilliant.
By most of the standards of the people who are enthusiasts it was weak.

Do you welcome mediocrity because it was designed in by a manufacturer?
Every single one of those silicone filled rubber bushings on TC rods on Nissan's has wound up failing in under 100k mileage of driving. I would not exactly call that excellent engineering. More like possibly just adequate engineering for the same of compliance and nothing more.

Seriously some you of you guys speaking up about ride quality and whatnot should listen to what Def, I and others are saying. We have been around this stuff for a long time.

[Crazyirish]

No Nissan engineers put silicon filled bushings on the TC rods because they wanted deflective movement capability. That is something a heim joint can handle because its a joint. Plus Silicon filled rubber bushes are a lot cheaper than putting heim joints on. LOL

None of that made any sense. After reading several posts, I will agree that Def sounds like he knows exactly what he is talking about. You might, but you don't express yourself well enough for me to buy it.

Yes, on a car equipped with all heim joints & quality springs/dampers nvh will often be as low as stock, and in some cases even lower. But that is not the case with the vehicle that the thread is discussing.

Nissan's engineers put those ridiculous bushings on the front tension rods because of nvh issues. Period. Heim joints are used in situations where zero deflection is required. If you change nothing else, (or even worse you have poly bushings in the flca) then a heim jointed front tension rod will make the ride rougher. Period.

[shinobis13hb]

same with me,
i got all adjsutable parts i would jsut buy all adjsutable parts then jsut sell what you have on now. the subframe bushing are the worst i heard.
.Sounds like the bushings are binding.

Sometimes those ES bushings are a tad too long and they stick out past the metal sleeves... when you tighten the arm the bracket will sandwich the bushing causing it to bind making it very hard for the suspension to move up and down. No amount of grease can fix this. This can lead to bent/broken arms later down the line.

My old ES bushings did this... made the ride quality horrible on semi bumpy roads.

Best thing to fix this is to either take everything apart and sand/shave the bushings slightly(not too much or it will cause the arms to move around during suspension travel which will change settings) so the metal sleeves stick out past the bushings like they are supposed to or do what aznpoopy said and trade for stock stuff.

[drift freaq]

None of that made any sense. After reading several posts, I will agree that Def sounds like he knows exactly what he is talking about. You might, but you don't express yourself well enough for me to buy it.

Yes, on a car equipped with all heim joints & quality springs/dampers nvh will often be as low as stock, and in some cases even lower. But that is not the case with the vehicle that the thread is discussing.

Nissan's engineers put those ridiculous bushings on the front tension rods because of nvh issues. Period. Heim joints are used in situations where zero deflection is required. If you change nothing else, (or even worse you have poly bushings in the flca) then a heim jointed front tension rod will make the ride rougher. Period.

You know what I think you understood what I wrote and in case you didn't the movement of the heim joint will allow for deflection because it moves. Does that make it any more clear for you?

If you think that Nissan put the silicon in them just for the sake of noise, vibration and harshness then you need to learn more about Nissan suspension. design.


Poly Joints have already been mentioned as a problem for harshness already so your argument there fails. If you put poly bush in the LCA it will cause binding. Its been mentioned already that poly bushings unless extremely lubricated usually bind.

Fact is OP posted issues with his suspension we gave him concrete answers with truth. Then you and AZ came in here crying about spherical TC rods being harsh which is not true unless your binding in other parts of your suspension. Which was also pointed by others.

Both of you are still crying, when people have given you reasons why the spherical TC rod would be feeling harsh.

If you knew how to setup your cars then you would not even be complaining.

Not only that but you just wanted to argue for the sake of arguing with your lame ass Nissan engineer statement.

Which I answered as well.

Thanks to you AZ and Grip terror you guys have done a good job of mucking up the OP's thread with your own bullshit.

[ManoNegra]

I will also add that a good alignment and corner balance works
wonders in how a car drives

only time I experience harness out of adjustable traction rods
was when I started doing string alignments in the backyard
I somehow managed to fubar the lengths on them pretty badly
car felt fine on smooth roads but was horrible over bumpy roads
re-setting the tc rods length and a trip to the alignment shop took care of the problem

[az_240]

Arguing with the thick headed drift freaq is pointless... might as well argue with a wall.

As I pointed out the bushings get sandwiched when you tighten the brackets. That is why they bind... Trim them/keep them greased with quality silicone grease (prothane) and they will be fine.

Sphericals in the uprights/LCAs would be best but most people do not have $300-$400+ to spend on some bushings that will eventually need to be replaced. Poly is a good cheap upgrade from stock if done correctly.

Spherical tension rods will make the ride harsher... end of story.... I have first hand experience with this on a few different cars and it has been reported by numerous people over the years. Maybe you are just used to it and don't notice or don't care enough. Not everyone wants a track oriented car.

[Def]

BMWs use spherical bearings all over their STOCK suspensions and ride smooth enough...

Just letting the suspension move with less friction gives a huge impact to ride harshness, way more than removing a bit of bushing squish. Sure that bushing squish does take the edge off bumps when it first hits, but then guess what, the wheel STILL has to go up and over the bump. Letting it move on a bearing/rod end is better in this respect than a goo'd up stock bushing. So you're taking one step back, one step forward. I really don't think my car hits bumps hard AT ALL, and it has ZERO rubber in the suspension. This isn't me being "used to it," I daily drive a BMW E39 540i which has an ultra-cush ride. So I go back and forth between the cars all the time.


As far as spherical bearings costing that much, the custom machined hardware to adapt them to a particular application is the expensive part. The actual bearings are pretty cheap(the cheapest part of them actually). They're on the order of 20-30% the total cost.

[Crazyirish]

You know what I think you understood what I wrote and in case you didn't the movement of the heim joint will allow for deflection because it moves. Does that make it any more clear for you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflection_(engineering)
Make sure you understand what words mean before you attempt to whip out your e-peen and say you know more than other people.
If you think that Nissan put the silicon in them just for the sake of noise, vibration and harshness then you need to learn more about Nissan suspension. design.
Google liquid filled bushings. The only thing they are EVER used for is NVH issues.
Poly Joints have already been mentioned as a problem for harshness already so your argument there fails. If you put poly bush in the LCA it will cause binding. Its been mentioned already that poly bushings unless extremely lubricated usually bind.
What argument was I making again? Are you and I even reading the same page?
Fact is OP posted issues with his suspension we gave him concrete answers with truth. Then you and AZ came in here crying about spherical TC rods being harsh which is not true unless your binding in other parts of your suspension. Which was also pointed by others.
You very nearly paraphrased part of my last post in this line.
Both of you are still crying, when people have given you reasons why the spherical TC rod would be feeling harsh.
Reasons that I clearly stated I support. Again, what posts are you reading?
If you knew how to setup your cars then you would not even be complaining.
No complaining here. Despite unprovoked insults from someone who either doesn't know what they are talking about, or just can't phrase their vast knowledge into coherent sentences.
Not only that but you just wanted to argue for the sake of arguing with your lame ass Nissan engineer statement.
Which I answered as well.
No, you just said something about me being okay with mediocrity and several other things that had nothing to do with my post, or anyone else's.
Thanks to you AZ and Grip terror you guys have done a good job of mucking up the OP's thread with your own bullshit.
Point and counterpoint never muck up a discussion.

[cyb]

Hey guys, I haven't had much time to work on the car lately, but yesterday I ordered the SPC arms and KW Variant 3 coil overs.

[ManoNegra]

I keep hearing good things about the KW coils
please gives us a verdict after you get a chance to feel them out

since I last posted here I did some suspension work on the S14 aswell
SPL TC rods upfront
z32 uprights with sphericals in the rear
RUCAs, traction rods, toe rods aswell
Zeals Fuction XS coils
alignment at West End Alignment

sphericals in the rear is probably one of the best upgrades to the suspension I've ever done
the compliance is amazing
some more noise but much less than running solid subframe bushings
was/am experiencing some vibration on the front
so I replaced the old tires and most of it went away

I still have some vibration but I think it may be due to the slip on spacers I have upfront
I stacked a 5mm and a 10mm spacers to clear the coilovers
I'm tracking down a set of hubcentric spacers and see if that helps

now the coils... sigh
it's a love hate affair for me so far after a few weeks of driving
the valving is pretty good, the car goes over bumps well even at low speeds
I have them set 2 out of 6 on the soft side for now
what I hate about them is that there appears to be a frequency to them
not the horrible bounce that cheap coils usually have but more
like a jiggling effect
hard to describe but annoying

I'm going to see what changes the spacers have on the suspension
after that I think I'll try a set Swift springs with helper springs

[az_240]

Good choice... should be a good street setup.

I learned for a 2nd time that there is absolutely no way to get those damn poly bushings to be any good in the uprights/LCA's... even with zerk fittings they stick and will make the ride horrible.

So ditched all poly bushings that require movement from the sleeve and will be going with stock/Nismo bushings for now until I can afford sphericals/adjustable LCA's.