Electrical problem (ign. relay related)

[TurboGoKart]

1990 240sx. I'm doing some wiring right now and while looking for some wires that are turned on with the ignition I found something weird. If I hook the battery up and key the car on, everything acts normal (dash lights come on, etc..). But when I key the car back off, it acts as if I've still got the key in the RUN position. After about an hour of searching today I found that if I tap on the ignition relay after I turn the key off, the power/dash lights etc. will shut back off. I replaced the ignition relay with another relay, but it's still doing the same thing. I am going to try and pick up a new relay to try, but if it's not the relay, what else could be causing the relay to stick on?

[jspaeth]

1990 240sx. I'm doing some wiring right now and while looking for some wires that are turned on with the ignition I found something weird. If I hook the battery up and key the car on, everything acts normal (dash lights come on, etc..). But when I key the car back off, it acts as if I've still got the key in the RUN position. After about an hour of searching today I found that if I tap on the ignition relay after I turn the key off, the power/dash lights etc. will shut back off. I replaced the ignition relay with another relay, but it's still doing the same thing. I am going to try and pick up a new relay to try, but if it's not the relay, what else could be causing the relay to stick on?


I think the ignition relay's coil side is powered by the ECU relay....so check that one to make sure IT isn't sticking.


J

[TurboGoKart]

Is that the same as the ECCS relay?

[jspaeth]

Is that the same as the ECCS relay?


yes and thanks for asking haha

[TurboGoKart]

ECCS/ECU relay is not sticking. Any other ideas?

[jspaeth]

ECCS/ECU relay is not sticking. Any other ideas?


You should get in there with a multimeter and see if either of those relays is putting out 12V on the switched side when it should not be....

[TurboGoKart]

Well, I just read that the ECCS relay is actually ground energized via the Red/blk wire from the ECU. Being that I'm not running a stock motor/harness, I grounded that wire and now when I hook up the battery, the ECCS relay clicks on, but still same problem with the ign. relay. Could it be a grounding problem with the ign. relay?

I'll go back and check again to see if in fact the last wire on the ECCS relay goes to the ign. relay.

[jspaeth]

Well, I just read that the ECCS relay is actually ground energized via the Red/blk wire from the ECU. Being that I'm not running a stock motor/harness, I grounded that wire and now when I hook up the battery, the ECCS relay clicks on, but still same problem with the ign. relay. Could it be a grounding problem with the ign. relay?

I'll go back and check again to see if in fact the last wire on the ECCS relay goes to the ign. relay.


The ignition relay ground won't STAY on if it's a bad coil side ground, it will actually stay OFF.


If you are certain that the ignition coil relay is STAYING ON, even with the ignition turned off, then you need to check the + wire going to the coil side of the relay.

Check to see if this is getting 12V even if the ignition is off (it should not be....).

If it is not, but the switched hot wire on the other side of the relay IS getting 12V, then the relay is bad.


If it IS, then that means that something is supplying constant 12V to the coil side of the ignition coil relay, which should NOT be the case.

You need to trace that wire and see why it is getting 12V with ignition off........if that wire is spliced off of the "outlet" of the ECCS relay (like in the FSM), then you need to figure out why the ECCS relay is on without ignition.


Are you really confused yet?

[TurboGoKart]

Nope! Haha I followed most of that. After I re-read it of course, but it does make sense what you're saying. I'll do some testing tomorrow and let ya know. Thanks for the help! Really appreciate it. :)

The only thing that confuses me about what you said, is that if I hook the battery up, the ignition relay doesn't come on. It's not until I key the car on, then turn it back off that the relay (if it is in fact the relay that's staying on) stays on. Seems if it was applying constant 12V to the coil side, it should come on as soon as I hook the battery up. Either way, I'll definitely do those tests tomorrow and post results.

[TurboGoKart]

Ok, so if I'm reading this all correctly, it seems like it should just be the relay that's bad.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/turbogokart/New%20Project/ignrelay.jpg

With the battery hooked up, and ignition off, only number 2 has 12V. 1 is the trigger wire from the ignition solenoid (where the key goes). 3 should be the output because 4 is a ground.

When I turn the key to ON, 1 has 12V, because it's coming from the ignition solenoid, normal right? 2 still has 12V (duh!). 3 has 1.2V. This may be normal because it may be drawing something small off of something else, not totally sure. And of course 4 is still a ground, and does not have any power.

Turn the ignition back off, and it all goes back to how it was. 1 has no power, 2 is 12V, 3 has no power, and 4 is still a ground (and no power lol).

This is why I thought that the relay was probably bad. Thoughts?

[TurboGoKart]

My ECCS relay is blue also, and I just tested it to see if it works, and it was clicking, so I put the blue ignition relay in place of the ECCS, and it was clicking on and off too. But yet it won't turn off when it's in the ign. relay spot??

I'm kind of wondering now if something is messed up with my actual key tumbler now and it not switching the power back off. But then again, the ACC relay will shut off when I turn it off with the key. Grrrr...

[TurboGoKart]

The ECCS relay should play no part in this because it's ground energized, and gets the signal to turn on from the ECU, then provides power to the ECU lol.

[jspaeth]

Didn't have time to read what you said, but the answer is that the IGN relay should NOT come on just from the battery....

The IGN relay comes on as a RESULT of the ECCS relay coming on.

But the ECCS relay turning on is triggered by the ECU.

And the ECU triggers the ECCS relay to come on ionly once the igniton is in the acc or ON position.


I think all of that is correct....I'm about 99% sure.

[TurboGoKart]

Ok thanks. I'll go back thru the FSM and try to find what links the ECCS relay to the ignition relay.

[TurboGoKart]

Well the only thing I can come up with so far is that the common link is the ECU. But I won't be running the stock ECU, as it's an LS1 swap, so it seems like I'll have to figure out another way to turn the ignition off? Still doesn't make sense. I'm going to keep looking.

[MtxWrl]

1990 240sx. I'm doing some wiring right now and while looking for some wires that are turned on with the ignition I found something weird. If I hook the battery up and key the car on, everything acts normal (dash lights come on, etc..). But when I key the car back off, it acts as if I've still got the key in the RUN position. After about an hour of searching today I found that if I tap on the ignition relay after I turn the key off, the power/dash lights etc. will shut back off. I replaced the ignition relay with another relay, but it's still doing the same thing. I am going to try and pick up a new relay to try, but if it's not the relay, what else could be causing the relay to stick on?

I have ur exact problem too... i havent really researched or tried to fix it cause the car is just sitting. But what i was gonna ask was I noticed with my situation if i start the car and then shut it off everything goes off.

[Strebloboost13]

My fix to this solution was to remove the 10a fuse from the engine cont spot in the relay box in the engine bay on the passengers side. I have an ls swapped s13 and with my alt plugged in it wouldn't turn off with the key which worked fine with the multiple ka engines I had in it. I believe this controls evap what not in stock form but for me this got my problem fixed. I'm investigating why exactly it worked but I'm not complaining 😂😂