The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant

[Strider]

A very interesting read.


The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant (http://www.playersvoice.com/nba/love-to-hate.html)

As another NBA season is now behind us and Kobe Bryant has picked up his fifth title, his place in history is up for debate. Bryant who was once the clear cut poster boy for the post Jordan era of the NBA, is now the most polarizing figure in all of sports. Millions of people love the Lakers star, and millions of people hate him, but every basketball fan has an opinion on Kobe and are pretty passionate about it. It has gotten to the point where when someone asks whether or not you are a Kobe fan, it almost defines you as a person. It’s like asking if you are a Democrat or a Republican. While trying to debate Bryant’s place among NBA greats, I was amazed by how many Bryant haters there were. The number of haters was so great that I didn’t even find it fair to throw them all into one group. So just to be fair, I broke the Kobe Bryant haters up into groups so they are easier to identify.

When you ask most Kobe Haters (we will call them KH for short) to talk about Kobe, the first thing you will hear is, “he’s not Michael Jordan.” What exactly does that mean? Jordan is regarded as the greatest basketball player who ever lived - is not being better than him a bad thing? I wonder if I brought a 7’6” man into these peoples living room if the first words out there mouth be, “he isn’t the tallest man to ever live.” I’m guessing they would be thinking more along the lines of, I don’t know if he is the tallest person to ever live but he damn sure is tall, and if he isn’t the tallest person ever, he sure is close. Saying Bryant is no MJ really isn’t saying anything, its just ignoring who he is because of who he is not.

Then there is the group of haters who always seem to think Kobe is the second best player in the league no matter what. Let this group tell it, Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. There was the he’s not better than Iverson debate that lasted for a couple of years, then there was the he’s not better than Tracy McGrady campaign which was followed by he’s not better than Steve Nash era -- hell even Chris Paul got his name mentioned for a year as the one guy in the NBA who is better than Kobe.This is the fan who has become a diehard Cavs fan out of nowhere. He is the same guy who years ago said that if Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady ever played with the best center in the NBA they would win a title too. His favorite line use to be "Kobe will never win without Shaq", but he never seems to remember saying any of that. He often has a lot to say in the regular season, but not so much in the playoffs.

Which then brings us to the group that we will just call “Mr. Unrealistic-Casual fan.” That’s the guy who watches about 10-15 basketball games a year, normally at a bar where he isn’t even paying attention and by the time the game is over, he is too drunk to even tell you what happened in the game. He is the guy who yells out “all I know is when Shaq left, Kobe couldn’t even get out of the first round.” It’s hard to really argue with him because he is right, that is all he knows. He never mentions that Kobe lost in the first round to a Suns team that had All Star Shawn Marion as the third option, while the Lakers third leading scorer was Brian Cook.

The next type of KH, is “Mr. I-know-basketball-more-than-you.” He normally is the guy who played basketball in High School and may have even walked on at a D2 school. He now coaches kids basketball so he thinks he has this ability to understand the game that no one else does, and can see things that you cant see and no one else can explain. He is the guy who says Kobe just doesn’t make others better, he says things like, you have to take Steve Nash over Kobe or no one wants to play with Kobe because he’s too selfish. When you ask him to explain why Nash has played on some of the most talented teams in the NBA over the last decade and hasn’t won anything, he really can’t answer you. He says Kobe doesn’t make anyone better but can’t explain why three years ago no one wanted Pau Gasol but now everyone seems to think he is the best thing since sliced bread. Three years ago, no GM in their right mind would have traded Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion, for Gasol and Odom, but for some reason this guy insists that Nash gets more out of his teammates then Kobe. This guy normally has a long list of players he would rather start a team with (Nash, Paul, LeBron, Dirk etc.) all of whom have never won anything even in college, but he can’t explain why because you just wouldn’t understand. When you ask him to name Bryant’s weakness, he gets frustrated trying to tell you, so he just tells you that you don’t understand the game like he does. Sounds pretty stupid, but who are you to argue? He does coach 6th graders. The more you listen to him, you can tell his hate for Kobe is deeply rooted. He secretly blames star players like Kobe for the reason his hoop dreams never panned out. If the star player on his college team had just passed more, coach could have seen all his talent. He will never tell anyone out loud, but in his heart he thinks he could have been better than Kobe if he was allowed to shoot more.

The hardest guy to argue with is the history guy. He typically watches a lot of basketball and knows his stuff. He doesn’t like Kobe, but respects his game and as painful as it is to say, he will even admit that Kobe is the best player in the NBA today. He considers Kobe the best player of his generation, but will quickly tell you he is not one of the best ever. He will say Kobe is somewhere between 15th to 20th best player of all time. The problem with history guy is he can never name 15 players better than Kobe. He often starts reeling off names fast like Jordan, Magic, Bird, and Wilt. After spiting out four names really fast with ease, he throws out two more names, then just starts saying ridiculous things like Dr. J and Walt Frazier. In a last second effort to reach 10 players, he says George Mikan, even though not only has he never seen Mikan play, his father hasn’t either. He can never tell you who the remaining 7 to 8 players are who are better then Kobe but swears they exist he just can never think of them right now. While naming the greatest players of all time, he often changes the criteria for being great. He says Bill Russell has to be top 5 because its all about rings, then goes on to name a handful of players who he thinks are better then Kobe who combined have less rings than him. He always wants to point out that Kobe played with Shaq, but never wants to mention that Jordan, Bird, and Magic never won a title without another Hall of Fame player on their team. History guy knows his basketball, the only thing he doesn’t know is why Kobe isn’t one of the top players of all time.

The most interesting of all the KH is hypocrite guy. He says one thing, but his hate for Kobe says another. He says he hates Kobe because he wants to be like Mike, but doesn’t even notice he is wearing a number 23 Cavs jersey. He says he can’t stand Kobe because he’s so arrogant, but his favorite player is a 25 year old who calls himself King and speaks in third person -- all while inviting us to “witness his greatness.” He is always complaining that today’s players only care about money and don’t care about getting better, but for some reason hates the player who works hardest in the NBA. He is often screaming that Kobe can’t win a title on his own in one breath, and in the second breath screaming LeBron needs help. He says things like today’s players have no respect for the players of the past, then turns around and says Kobe steals players moves from the past. He hates Kobe so much that he doesn’t even realize that stuff he says makes no sense. He calls every Kobe fan he knows every time Kobe has a bad game to say “I told you so” but he is the hardest guy to find every time Kobe has great game or hit’s a game winning shot. He always says he can’t stand Kobe because he wants to be like Jordan, even though every Saturday he himself hit’s the park in his Jordan shoes, Jordan socks, Jordan shorts and Jordan shirt and never forgets his Jordan bag full of Gatorade. Hypocrite guy doesn’t even realize everyone wants to be like Jordan including himself, the only difference is Kobe is the only one willing to put in the same work Mike did.

Last but not least is “Ms. I-can’t-stand-him.” This is the female who obviously used to date Bryant, if you didn’t know any better. She often says I can’t stand him with so much passion that you can tell it goes deeper than basketball. She has a long list of reasons she hates him, and not one of them has anything to do with basketball. She doesn’t even have a favorite basketball team, she just roots for whatever team is playing the Lakers. If you watched her throughout the playoffs you would think she was a Suns, Thunder, and Celtics fan her whole life. There really is no need to argue with her because all she ever says is “ I can’t stand him” and all you can really do is wonder, does she know him?

Does every super star in sports have his/her group of haters? Yes, but hating Kobe has gone to a different level, it has taken on an art form. While millions of Americans will admit to being a Kobe hater, there are several hundred thousands of fans out there who don’t even know they are Kobe haters. The saying goes, “it’s lonely at the top,” or as Jay-Z once said, “you don’t even know me and you mad. How it feel to be a hater, now I know exactly how it feels to be a Laker."

[BOROSUN]

this guy is a lebron hater (i will call him LH for short).
nUTnhP3vECY
full dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjFd9fr1xyM)

i'm knicks fan and i hated MJ but, he was the G.O.A.T. sorry, its not kobe .

[BOROSUN]

this what i think...
A6CWVkPhzRw

[lawrenceyang]

someone should also write an article about kobe fans and how they scream about kobe but haven't seen any other teams play and haven't heard of walt frazier or dr.j but say that he's one of the best to ever play. the article also forgot to mention the "fan" that hates on kobe because he "raped" a woman.

[Phlip]

the article also forgot to mention the "fan" that hates on kobe because he "raped" a woman.

It stopped short of mentioning that with the next to last paragraph, which is like one of the reasons that damn near EVERY chick to express an opinion hates him, but funny enough none of them will just come out and SAY that. Because they know he didn't rape the girl.
Not even gonna address the rest of your post, seeing as how you apparently know little about the subject at large yourself.

What's odd is that I posted a similar scribe (http://callmephlip.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-do-you-hate-kobe-bryant.html) about 5 days before the article in the original post went up. Isn't that funny?

[thefro526]

I like Kobe.

Just because people don't like him.

That means that he's doing something right.

(Seriously though, Kobe's an awesome Basketball player.)

[wh0aitznic0]

That was a great read. *thumb up*

[Daniel.]

Enjoyed the article. Thanks for sharing.

[vvtisupra]

someone should also write an article about kobe fans and how they scream about kobe but haven't seen any other teams play and haven't heard of walt frazier or dr.j but say that he's one of the best to ever play. the article also forgot to mention the "fan" that hates on kobe because he "raped" a woman.

need to get your facts straight

and if anyone remembers the first 2.5 years of kobe playing you can tell the improvements that he has made. Leaps and Bounds of improvement. He wasn't looking to pass and when he was he tried to make it spectaculor like magic, thats what put him on the bench behind Eddie Jones and Anthony Peeler.

After those first few years just go back and see his maturity and skill level exponentially grow. Its quite amazing. But most people won't see that because they are KH's.

But I'm not going to lie, I'm a Laker fan first and foremost, I just got lucky Charlette Hornets gave up Kobe for Vlade and First round pick =)

Or else i woulda had to hate Kobe.


I also think Pau Gasol should have won Post Season MVP 09-10 season. 3 years on the team and 3 years in the finals with 2 championship rings.



Oh yah and remember that game kobe banked the three at the buzzard against miami heat. I remmber watching that game with one of those Kobe will never be like Jordan KH's. I watched the full game with him and at the end after all his excuses i just smiled.

[lawrenceyang]

need to get your facts straight

and if anyone remembers the first 2.5 years of kobe playing you can tell the improvements that he has made. Leaps and Bounds of improvement. He wasn't looking to pass and when he was he tried to make it spectaculor like magic, thats what put him on the bench behind Eddie Jones and Anthony Peeler.

After those first few years just go back and see his maturity and skill level exponentially grow. Its quite amazing. But most people won't see that because they are KH's.

But I'm not going to lie, I'm a Laker fan first and foremost, I just got lucky Charlette Hornets gave up Kobe for Vlade and First round pick =)

Or else i woulda had to hate Kobe.


I also think Pau Gasol should have won Post Season MVP 09-10 season. 3 years on the team and 3 years in the finals with 2 championship rings.



Oh yah and remember that game kobe banked the three at the buzzard against miami heat. I remmber watching that game with one of those Kobe will never be like Jordan KH's. I watched the full game with him and at the end after all his excuses i just smiled.

not sure what facts i need to iron out but no worries. by no means do i hate kobe, honestly i think he's already as good as jordan but in different ways, i.e. jordan could drive and make ridiculous and1's but kobe has a better outside game/3 pointer. the only problem that i have with anything kobe related is the annoying lakers/kobe fans around here in socal that don't know anything about the game or the history of the game but will always make sure you know that the lakers just won and that kobe is better than any other player even if he shot 6-24 that night. hell i'm a celtics fan but i wear kobe v's :D

[voodoo_child]

stop comparing Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan. Jordan played in a different era where there are a lot of Hall of Famers like Clyde Drexler, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Dominic Wilkins, our own Majic Johnson, Karl Malone w/ John Stockton, and many more to mention. some of them didnt have a ring because of Michael Jordan. Jordan didnt have a Shaq like center, he had Luc Longley and Toney Kukoc, didnt have a point gaurd like Derek Fisher, he had BJ Armstrong. Kobe Bryant's era is so different. not to many good players compare before. i would say if Kobe was in Jordan's era he would even be in 5th best player. im not a Kobe hater just stop comparing him to Michael Jordan coz no matter how many Championships you have or ring you cant be Michael Jordan or be greater than him.

[implayaz9]

nice article

[DALAZ_68]

not sure what facts i need to iron out but no worries. by no means do i hate kobe, honestly i think he's already as good as jordan but in different ways, i.e. jordan could drive and make ridiculous and1's but kobe has a better outside game/3 pointer. the only problem that i have with anything kobe related is the annoying lakers/kobe fans around here in socal that don't know anything about the game or the history of the game but will always make sure you know that the lakers just won


ha ha...so true...i dont even watch sports...and its such a sorry fact...hell many dont even understand why there called Lakers...lol


i admit, i watch the second half due to inibreation...but in no way am i a lakers fan/hater...in a sense im nuetral since i dont bother watching sports unless im drunk...like last years first home game...company box seats, drunk...didnt know they won till the next day, i just went for free booze...lol

[revat619]

stop comparing Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan. Jordan played in a different era where there are a lot of Hall of Famers like Clyde Drexler, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Dominic Wilkins, our own Majic Johnson, Karl Malone w/ John Stockton, and many more to mention. some of them didnt have a ring because of Michael Jordan. Jordan didnt have a Shaq like center, he had Luc Longley and Toney Kukoc, didnt have a point gaurd like Derek Fisher, he had BJ Armstrong. Kobe Bryant's era is so different. not to many good players compare before. i would say if Kobe was in Jordan's era he would even be in 5th best player. im not a Kobe hater just stop comparing him to Michael Jordan coz no matter how many Championships you have or ring you cant be Michael Jordan or be greater than him.

While i agree that people should not to compare the two, some of your reasons are a bit off. Saying the league was better then than it is now is extremely debatable. Less fouls were called back then and it was more physical yes, however players now are WAY more athletic now and a lot of players back then would get eaten up in today's game and vice versa. And as far as playing with hall of famers and not as many good players, ummm have you watched the last 16 years of basketball? Kobe has played against tons of them. And speculating where Kobe's rank would fall if he were playing "back then" is exactly that; speculation. Oh and in the last 10 years, the Lakers have been to finals 7 times and won 5. I'd say Kobe is doing his part in keeping future hall of famers from getting rings as well. And he's not done yet...

Is Kobe the greatest ever? No and he never will be. Jordan being the greatest ever is about more than just his ability on the court. Its about what he has done globally for the game of basketball. No one will ever do that again.

By the time Kobe's career is over, however, he will definitely be top 5.

[DALAZ_68]

why not just leave it up to stats...i mean really, isnt that what gets you payed...just like any other fucken sport...stats...

[lawrenceyang]

why not just leave it up to stats...i mean really, isnt that what gets you payed...just like any other fucken sport...stats...

gotta think about the intangibles though, i.e. leadership qualities, clutch performances, motivation, blah blah

[revat619]

why not just leave it up to stats...i mean really, isnt that what gets you payed...just like any other fucken sport...stats...

Yes and no. Stats have to be viewed in context with the team, talent on the team, conference, era, etc. There are just too many variables to base being the greatest solely on statistics.

[adrians_s13]

lol nice article. I like


<3 kobe

[satal95]

I think Kobe is the best player right now. Comparing him to Jordan, well all we have to do is take Jordan's supporting cast away, do you honestly think he would have won as many rings as he did, I think not. Basically it's like trying to explain on who was the better running back Emmitt or Barry. In my mind Barry because he did more with less (aka Kobe) then what Emmitt would have done(aka Jordan)

But again that is just my opinion

[Kaizen.]

Haters recognize good work....

If you don't have haters, you aint doing it right!

Kobe's got serious haters because hes a monster. I use to be a kobe hater because im from Sac, now I got mad respect for his game.

[DALAZ_68]

gotta think about the intangibles though, i.e. leadership qualities, clutch performances, motivation, blah blah

Yes and no. Stats have to be viewed in context with the team, talent on the team, conference, era, etc. There are just too many variables to base being the greatest solely on statistics.

so you want to base off opinion...not result...got it...


no wonder...lol

[Strider]

so you want to base off opinion...not result...got it...


no wonder...lol

Umm, that's not that they are saying at all. Nice way to twist that.


I do agree with them though there are many intangibles you have to consider when talking about the best ever. Stats alone is great but there are other things too.

[swiftdrift]

Awesome article! Great points! My gf is one of those Kobe haters talked about. I called her out exactly like the article said a few weeks ago and she simply said "ugh I just don't like him. I don't need to explain myself" so that made me lol

but great read! Lakers fan since birth! 3-peat??... Yuupp!

[qwikspool]

kobe is just an amazing player.
great article

[lawrenceyang]

so you want to base off opinion...not result...got it...


no wonder...lol

think about it like this since you're not understanding, i'll use ron artest as an example. if you look at his stats nothing particularly amazing is gonna show there, this year he averaged eleven points, four boards and three assists per game. by no means are these statistics mind boggling but he's a star defensive player. stats can't count for how good a player is on the defensive end just like stats can't count for how a player responds in late game situations. i suppose to some extent being "great" and a hall of famer is an "opinion" of coaches and other players but when you're great you'll probably know it

[Choku_Dorian]

I used to hate Kobe. But I love good solid basketball enough that I have come around. Kobe hits the most impossible shots known to mankind while being played with perfect defense man to man if not double or triple teamed.

He is amazing, one of top 10 for sure IMO. and I'm not a Lakers fan.

[chato de shamrock]

ha ha...so true...i dont even watch sports...and its such a sorry fact...hell many dont even understand why there called Lakers...lol


i admit, i watch the second half due to inibreation...but in no way am i a lakers fan/hater...in a sense im nuetral since i dont bother watching sports unless im drunk...like last years first home game...company box seats, drunk...didnt know they won till the next day, i just went for free booze...lol

Growing up, it seemed like LA was Chicagoland of the west coast back during the Jordan era. I found out a little too late what all the Jordan hipe was about so I never got sucked into it, but I remember back then it was all about wearing the Bulls t-shirts, Jordan shoes and jerseys, Bulls hats and jackets. Everyone seemed to be sucked in including my school friends. After the Shaq and Kobi deals it seems all the Bulls gear, Jordan in mid air posters, figurines, etc. disappeared. I had some friends that were die hard Jordan/Bulls fans. I've asked what happened with the Bulls support in this city, where did it go, but i never get any answers. L.A. is all Laker city now. :eek3:

[gzer750]

kobe and jordan should never be compared. i like kobe as a player, thats it. and if he raped that girl, why did she take the money?

[Slammed Assassin]

don't hate, appreciate!

[Gnnr]

I understand this board is Lakers biased since the majority of the members are in So. Cal, but lets not go praising a article that is poorly written and very difficult to read. Although he does make some good points, Phlip's blog post is 1,000 times better. BTW Phlip, I'm waiting on you to comment on the whole free agency. ;)

I don't like Kobe and I don't like the Lakers. But I also try to be objective and honest when I talk about either.

What I'm getting from that article is that I'm supposed to love and admire Kobe because for his accomplishments? That what that article seems to be saying. Kobe's personality is not appealing to me. Thats pretty much it. He comes across as a douche. Everytime I try to give him a chance, he goes and blows it too. The "I got one more than Shaq" comment for instance. It just seemed classless. Is this not equivalent to LeBron not shaking his opponents hand?

He acts like a douche. That's the impression he gives. Face it, I'm sure there are many people that just rub you the wrong way. I don't expect everyone to like Jordan even with all he accomplished, and hey a lot of people don't. He was known to be an A-hole many times as well. Is Kobe on my list of Top 5 greatest players? Sure. Is he on my Top 5 favorite players? NO. Is he entertaining? Yes. Is it a good thing he is in the NBA? Yes.

Your personality and demeanor has a lot to with how people perceive you. Thats part of my fascination with Kevin Durant. So humble and quite. Never any cockiness. I remember after one of OKC's wins against the Lakers playoff series the interviewer comments to Durant "You don’t seem that excited by this win" and he responds "It’s a seven game series." with the most serious game face :squint: you ever seen. THAT shit impresses me. Nothing to celebrate, no cockiness, nada.

Its dumb to hate him because of his accomplishments, thats illogical to me. I think a lot of people hate on Kobe because he is a Laker and because the Kobe fan base gets easily rilled and pissed off when people take jabs at him. I get a kick out of teasing my friends, too. :keke: Don't you guys love riling up Boston fans? Yeah, thought so. That's sports.

Kobe fans that want to reduce the hate should stop trying to force him onto other people's best list and stop comparing him to Jordan. Its just annoying.

gotta think about the intangibles though, i.e. leadership qualities, clutch performances, motivation, blah blah

Stats is an objective way to measure, otherwise its opinion. Because if you start to look at a players leadership and things like that then you'll also have to throw in their negative qualities as well. It gets messy.

stats can't count for how good a player is on the defensive end just like stats can't count for how a player responds in late game situations.

Actually they do measure those. I remember they brought up the amount of times Kobe won in last second situations, so that is a statistic.

Only unbiased measure is stats. That whole "best" thing is way too subjective. Just look at this poll ESPN has up right now and tell me you don't see something a little odd. ;)

http://i47.tinypic.com/au84u8.jpg

Boston and LA fans, I tell ya'. j/k :p

[fliprayzin240sx]

I'm not the biggest Kobe fan...but I hate Lebron the most...

[Phlip]

I understand this board is Lakers biased since the majority of the members are in So. Cal, but lets not go praising a article that is poorly written and very difficult to read. Although he does make some good points, Phlip's blog post is 1,000 times better. BTW Phlip, I'm waiting on you to comment on the whole free agency. ;)
Wow, thanks... I spent the playoffs working on it, I needed a positive outcome before posting.
I am a Lakers fan first and always have been, my basketball sensibilities lead me to be a Kobe fan as well.
Free agency post coming when I can observe and not speculate.
What I'm getting from that article is that I'm supposed to love and admire Kobe because for his accomplishments? That what that article seems to be saying. Kobe's personality is not appealing to me. Thats pretty much it. He comes across as a douche. Everytime I try to give him a chance, he goes and blows it too. The "I got one more than Shaq" comment for instance. It just seemed classless. Is this not equivalent to LeBron not shaking his opponents hand?
As I have mentioned, I can understand not liking him for his personality and all, my stance is just that THAT is why I personally dislike Michael Jordan, who I have met 3 times and been within 50 feet of 3 other times, but always struck me as a fucking douchebag, even at age 10.
The "one more than Shaq" thing was not so much a classless act, not as much as "Kobe how my ass taste," considering that Kobe was giving the reporter, Mark Kriegel, what he had been fishing for the duration of the playoffs. The interview was fun and conversational, that comment fit the direction of it in my opinion.
Your personality and demeanor has a lot to with how people perceive you. Thats part of my fascination with Kevin Durant. So humble and quite. Never any cockiness. I remember after one of OKC's wins against the Lakers playoff series the interviewer comments to Durant "You don’t seem that excited by this win" and he responds "It’s a seven game series." with the most serious game face :squint: you ever seen. THAT shit impresses me. Nothing to celebrate, no cockiness, nada.
That lack of chest-thumping will cost Durant some MVP trophies. Durant is legitimately a good dude, though, he even demands that Nike keeps his shoe under 90 bucks.
Kobe fans that want to reduce the hate should stop trying to force him onto other people's best list and stop comparing him to Jordan. Its just annoying.
Kobe haters should stop using their damned emotions to force "Kobe sucks" out and attempting to leave it at that.
Stats is an objective way to measure, otherwise its opinion. Because if you start to look at a players leadership and things like that then you'll also have to throw in their negative qualities as well. It gets messy.
While stats are a quantifiable measure, influence is one of those that also is. THAT is the difference between Kobe and MJ. They could play one-on-one in their primes and the one to come along later should win, based solely on having had the prior to have learned from. That is up to the will of either, which we cannot properly assess based upon what we currently know.
Jordan's influence on and off the court cannot be duplicated, whether I like the guy as a person or not.
No arguing that.
LeBron is trying to with all he has, but it seems to be alienating a lot of purists. Trying too hard, he really irks me with that shit too.

As far as on-court goes, every generation should present at least one player who is "better" than the best of the last, otherwise no progress is being made.

[Strider]

I'm not the biggest Kobe fan...but I hate Lebron the most...

Amen brotha! Amen! I can't stand Lebron

[samms95s14se]

It's as simple as this... If you are a person with common sense and appreciate the game of basketball you will give Kobe his due respect for his work ethic, skills and determination to win. If your team is not the Lakers you most likely hate him because he's not on your team winning championships! Duh! Just don't embarrass yourself with stupid statements created out of hate. If your team is the LAKERS life is good and you already know what's up with KB24!

Lebron hasn't won any rings and they call him KING?? I just don't like him. He doesn't even have the F-ing Eye of the Tiger look of determination see Kobe's post game interviews and court presence if you need a refresher on the mentality and demeanor of a champion.

[JDMS13Louie]

I'll say it like this... I don't like the Lakers that includes Kobe(..and LA in general. HAHAHAHAHA). Do I go around telling everyone "Fuck that foo Kobe!" Naw...Only when we're watching the games with friends and family but I do give credit where credit is due and that his him being a good player. He's missing a lot of qualities to be one of the greatest players but over the years he's been improving little by little.

[revat619]

I'll say it like this... I don't like the Lakers that includes Kobe(..and LA in general. HAHAHAHAHA). Do I go around telling everyone "Fuck that foo Kobe!" Naw...Only when we're watching the games with friends and family but I do give credit where credit is due and that his him being a good player. He's missing a lot of qualities to be one of the greatest players but over the years he's been improving little by little.

Which qualities does he lack?

[Xplat]

If Kobe were to leave the Lakers and stomp on their collective nutsacks game after game on a different team. Would you Lakers fans still like Kobe?

Don't even bother replying with "that'll never happen". This is simply a hypothetical situation to find out where your loyalty resides.

Will you still hold your composure and congratulate Kobe Bryant after he and his new team consistently destroy the Lakers??

I'm curious to know.

[fcdrifter20]

If Kobe were to leave the Lakers and stomp on their collective nutsacks game after game on a different team. Would you Lakers fans still like Kobe?

Don't even bother replying with "that'll never happen". This is simply a hypothetical situation to find out where your loyalty resides.

Will you still hold your composure and congratulate Kobe Bryant after he and his new team consistently destroy the Lakers??

I'm curious to know.


no, they would all turn on kobe and talk shit about how much he scuks, and how he should have never left the team,even after watching kobe and his new team stomp the lakers out....cuz thats just how laker fans are...


I dont like the Lakers, and i dont like kobe cuz he plays for them. They are a great team, but i just can find myself ever liking them because i hate their fans..Most of my family are laker fans and i love tthem, but they tunr into other ppl during the game and i want to punch every last one of them in the face!!!

I dont hate the Lakers but i hate their fans!!!!! [email protected]&k everylast one of them..during game day...lol:fawkd:

[Gnnr]

If Kobe were to leave the Lakers and stomp on their collective nutsacks game after game on a different team. Would you Lakers fans still like Kobe?

Don't even bother replying with "that'll never happen". This is simply a hypothetical situation to find out where your loyalty resides.

Will you still hold your composure and congratulate Kobe Bryant after he and his new team consistently destroy the Lakers??

I'm curious to know.

Actually, they probably would still like him. Sports history has shown that the fans usually give warm receptions to ex-players that come back in town, especially ones that have given them and their city great seasons. Look at the whole recent Brett Favre situation when he went back to play against GB even though he went to a rival team. Depends on the manner that they leave, but usually that is the case.

[revat619]

If Kobe were to leave the Lakers and stomp on their collective nutsacks game after game on a different team. Would you Lakers fans still like Kobe?

Don't even bother replying with "that'll never happen". This is simply a hypothetical situation to find out where your loyalty resides.

Will you still hold your composure and congratulate Kobe Bryant after he and his new team consistently destroy the Lakers??

I'm curious to know.

I'm a fan of quality basketball first and a Laker fan second. Therefore, i'm a fan of Kobe's no matter what team he's on. If he were traded tomorrow, i'd still be a fan. The dude's game is more complete than ANYONE playing RIGHT NOW. How can you hate that?

[greenzenki86]

I'm not the biggest Kobe fan...but I hate Lebron the most...


youre fuckin CRAAAAAAAZY lol.....Lebron is a beast.....that guy is probably gonna be the next Kobe, they are already giving him that now....just thought id say that lol

[Phlip]

youre fuckin CRAAAAAAAZY lol.....Lebron is a beast.....that guy is probably gonna be the next Kobe, they are already giving him that now....just thought id say that lol
Are we talking about LeBron now?
*Inconsistent jumpshot
*Terrible decision making in the end-game
*Spends ENTIRELY too much time with the ball to not score 50 EVERY night (a REAL ballhog is one who routinely spends 16 seconds with the ball without attempting to score, that suggests that he is not trying to win games. This is ONE of the things I actually excused AI for in Philly, he was the ONLY option)
*The whole "quitting" thing in this year's playoffs
*The whole "take my ball and go home" thing in last years
*Hiding getting dunked on last summer
*Calling himself "king" since 16 with dick to show for it

I could continue...
The reasons that people TRY to hate on Kobe are ones they should abandon and apply to LeBron, honestly. LeBron is more about Brand LeBron than he is about basketball anything. That is the douchebag part of MJ that HE copied, and is running into the ground. True to the prima donna attitude we see in those generally 25 and younger these days, he is terribly immature in general.
Yes, he is a beast on the court, among the most PHYSICALLY gifted athletes the league has or will see, but he is resistant to coaching -- as any of us would be if EVERYONE was on our dicks since Junior year in high school -- and that has now cost him 3 chances at/on the biggest stage, and I am not sure that he will turn that corner unless he makes some changes.
Starting with doing some actual basketball work in the summer instead of going around and having adventures and shit.
As a fan of good basketball, I can only respect LeBron's physicality, but his game is terribly incomplete, he does not play winning basketball.

No, I do not like LeBron as a player OR a human being, at least I like Jordan as a player and brand.
Went in on him too, here (http://callmephlip.blogspot.com/2010/05/lebron-enjoy-that-vacation.html)

[fliprayzin240sx]

Which qualities does he lack?

+1 I think he's more humble now than any other time other than his rookie season.

If Kobe were to leave the Lakers and stomp on their collective nutsacks game after game on a different team. Would you Lakers fans still like Kobe?

Don't even bother replying with "that'll never happen". This is simply a hypothetical situation to find out where your loyalty resides.

Will you still hold your composure and congratulate Kobe Bryant after he and his new team consistently destroy the Lakers??

I'm curious to know.

There's a difference between being a Lakers fan and a Kobe Fan. Some folks are die hard Lakers fan due to the rich history of the team. Kobe isnt the only great player to have ever played for the Lakers....

youre fuckin CRAAAAAAAZY lol.....Lebron is a beast.....that guy is probably gonna be the next Kobe, they are already giving him that now....just thought id say that lol

I hate Lebron for his damn attitude...when I see Lebron, first thing that pops in my head is a fucking Primadonna. The same fucking feeling I get when I see "My Super Sweet 16" on MTV...what a spoiled, unappreciative SOB, get the fuck off your high horse...

[obsolete]

think about it like this since you're not understanding, i'll use ron artest as an example. if you look at his stats nothing particularly amazing is gonna show there, this year he averaged eleven points, four boards and three assists per game. by no means are these statistics mind boggling but he's a star defensive player. stats can't count for how good a player is on the defensive end just like stats can't count for how a player responds in late game situations. i suppose to some extent being "great" and a hall of famer is an "opinion" of coaches and other players but when you're great you'll probably know it

actually, there are stats for defense. it's just not made public because most people don't care or it's not worth the effort to publicize. But trust that GM's have statisticians provide these stats to evaluate a player they are interested in pursuing.

[obsolete]

Wow this is turning into an "art of hating lebron" thread now lol.

He never asked for all this shit, it just turns out he was just that nasty it came to him. So he ran with it. Anyone in his shoes would. The persona or character he portrays in the media and spotlight is just part of a game. I'm sure none of you hung out with them. But like it's been said about kobe, if nobody is hating you, you not doing it right.

It's only been six years in the league and i say he accomplished A LOT so far. You wanna talk about doing more with less? Lebron is the perfect example. check this roster

2006-07 Cleveland Cavaliers Roster and Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2007.html)

[fliprayzin240sx]

The problem is not what he's done thru the season...its what he cant do in the post season. Yes he has done more in 06-07 but the lack of maturity ("I'm a winner, dont make sense to shake their hands after my teams ass got handed to me" incident with the Magics) and 3 yrs later, with all the supporting casts, having one of the best runs in the play off, with no more excuse and all the promises of bringing a title to Cleveland...only to choke again...really now, whats there to like? We can all point the fingers to Mike Brown but it was Lebron who didnt come thru....

So all the Kobe lovers out there, be happy that Lebron is there to embrace the suck...

[obsolete]

So single handedly getting his team to the finals is not getting it done in the post season?

And I wasn't comparing what he's done then and now. It was just to point out that he had ZERO help that year and still made the finals.

as for this year? what supporting cast?

2009-10 Cleveland Cavaliers Roster and Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.html)

I agree he kinda quit on the team during that boston series, but remember kobe when he quit in game 7 against the suns in that first round series. then calling out andrew bynum that summer in a parking lot. it could all be perceived in different ways, but in the end, it's a game and kobe got what he wanted. Pau is the top #2 player in the league and he had bynum, odom. Lebron still has a lot to improve on and that's scary. let's see if he puts in the time.

[Phlip]

So single handedly getting his team to the finals is not getting it done in the post season?
If one player single handedly gets his team to the finals, that is just as much a knock on the level of competition as it is a springboard for that individual. In a superstar's league, though, it will be treated as that player's "breakout performance," even if they never do anything more.
The eastern conference was weak as FUCK that year.
as for this year? what supporting cast?
You mean the rag-tag bunch of former all-stars and one future hall of famer? Among whom, I can count 3 who CAN create their own shots if it were not coached out of them by Mike "Give LeBron the ball and move" Brown.
You mean the same supporting cast who won the most games in the NBA for 2 straight seasons, only to go soft in the playoffs? It is apparent that SOMETHING was there in support, but it was absolutely not properly applied when it counted.
I agree he kinda quit on the team during that boston series, but remember kobe when he quit in game 7 against the suns in that first round series.
Does this mean that LeBron will be forgiven when he gives Cleveland consecutive rings with a probable third?
calling out andrew bynum that summer in a parking lot.
At that point, Bynum was a weak link, he either needed to go or some work. The higher ups used the influence of their superstar to get the latter. If not for a freak knee injury, this repeat would be a 3-peat.
it could all be perceived in different ways, but in the end, it's a game and kobe got what he wanted. Pau is the top #2 player in the league and he had bynum, odom. Lebron still has a lot to improve on and that's scary. let's see if he puts in the time.
That is the difference in my opinion.
Magic Johnson had it when he got a coach fired and then won rings.
Michael Jordan had it when HE got a coach not renewed, yelled at teammates like they were his bitches and got rings.
Kobe threw a necessary bitch fit and it worked for him.
LeBron has had 3 years to get the moves he wanted made to be made, on the threat of Cleveland losing him. At this point, it is looking more and more each day like they will lose him. It didn't have to be like this.

Sadly enough, I REALLY think that a lack of coaching has stunted LeBron's growth as a player. Sure, he is talented as fuck, and will be a perennial all-star, always in the MVP talk and a first-ballot hall of famer, but his basketball IQ is shit compared to the greats before him.
He needs to spend a summer working with Magic Johnson, honestly, instead of going on bike rides with Chris Paul.

[greenzenki86]

Are we talking about LeBron now?
*Inconsistent jumpshot
*Terrible decision making in the end-game
*Spends ENTIRELY too much time with the ball to not score 50 EVERY night (a REAL ballhog is one who routinely spends 16 seconds with the ball without attempting to score, that suggests that he is not trying to win games. This is ONE of the things I actually excused AI for in Philly, he was the ONLY option)
*The whole "quitting" thing in this year's playoffs
*The whole "take my ball and go home" thing in last years
*Hiding getting dunked on last summer
*Calling himself "king" since 16 with dick to show for it

I could continue...
The reasons that people TRY to hate on Kobe are ones they should abandon and apply to LeBron, honestly. LeBron is more about Brand LeBron than he is about basketball anything. That is the douchebag part of MJ that HE copied, and is running into the ground. True to the prima donna attitude we see in those generally 25 and younger these days, he is terribly immature in general.
Yes, he is a beast on the court, among the most PHYSICALLY gifted athletes the league has or will see, but he is resistant to coaching -- as any of us would be if EVERYONE was on our dicks since Junior year in high school -- and that has now cost him 3 chances at/on the biggest stage, and I am not sure that he will turn that corner unless he makes some changes.
Starting with doing some actual basketball work in the summer instead of going around and having adventures and shit.
As a fan of good basketball, I can only respect LeBron's physicality, but his game is terribly incomplete, he does not play winning basketball.

No, I do not like LeBron as a player OR a human being, at least I like Jordan as a player and brand.
Went in on him too, here (http://callmephlip.blogspot.com/2010/05/lebron-enjoy-that-vacation.html)

bad decision making in the end game but yet hes the only option on the team, lets be serious, whos hand would you put the ball in to put the game on the line? its like a doube edged sword. if he makes it.....hes a hero....if he misses it, he takes all the blame right???? and king at 16? with everybody in the sports industry and everyone else hyping you up???? you have to live up to their expectations, you wouldnt want people to say youre "overrated" right? or even just a flop? thats like asking Jay-Z is he the best rapper alive? hes gonna say "yes"....he definitely wont say "nah man im not"....back to bad decision making....Kobe was 6/24 in game 7...unlike Lebron, Kobe has other good players to make him look good even with a bad performance....yeah, Lebron has good players too, but they are more inconsistent than he is.....sorry if that sounded mean but I gotta back
up what I said earlier lol

[Phlip]

bad decision making in the end game but yet hes the only option on the team, lets be serious, whos hand would you put the ball in to put the game on the line? its like a doube edged sword. if he makes it.....hes a hero....if he misses it, he takes all the blame right????
If one is willing to take on all the praise in victory, they damned well better be ready to be the goat in defeat.
If he willed them to the finals (in which they were SWEPT, by the way), then he should be able to will them back and to victory.
and king at 16? with everybody in the sports industry and everyone else hyping you up???? you have to live up to their expectations, you wouldnt want people to say youre "overrated" right? or even just a flop?
He IS overrated, and apparently loving every moment of it, considering that being overrated is a lucrative field to be in these days.
My problem is that he has been buying the hype all along, there is NOTHING humble about his persona, on or off the court. That is the one thing HE took from the Jordan school of superstardom that does not work so well these days, Kobe had to find out the hard way in Colorado.
thats like asking Jay-Z is he the best rapper alive? hes gonna say "yes"....he definitely wont say "nah man im not"
Apples to oranges, rap is a competitive arena in which one is SUPPOSED to claim to be the best, the bravado is expected. Fuck, Soulja Boy thinks he is the best rapper alive and his sales numbers somewhat support it. The judgment of that in that arena, though, is purely subjective... Sport does not work like that.
back to bad decision making....Kobe was 6/24 in game 7...unlike Lebron, Kobe has other good players to make him look good even with a bad performance
And in the midst of that "bad" performance (23 points and 15 rebounds is a monster fucking line), Kobe has the know-how (or know-when) to defer to teammates. LeBron either doesn't trust, or is told not to do so, or has NEVER BEEN FUCKING QUESTIONED IN HIS LIFE when he didn't. That is a problem that will be hard to un-learn.
yeah, Lebron has good players too, but they are more inconsistent than he is.....sorry if that sounded mean but I gotta back
up what I said earlier lol
You know how to take an all star and make them into a scrub?
Put them into a situation where their specific talents would be infinitely useful and tell them NOT to use them. That is just as much a fail on the part of coaching as it is LeBron's perceived inability to think about anyone not named LeBron, but if we're heaping praise on the boy, so then goes the blame for failure.

Mike Wilbon said it quite nicely as well here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/01/AR2010070106172.html?hpid=news-col-blog), in that even though he is only 25, his window is closing faster than it seems.
Need examples?

Kevin Garnett
Tracy McGrady

Miles on that chassis WILL slow it down, especially with the way LeBron plays ball. Fuck, in that same regard, I really don't see Kobe having a ton of miles left in his tank either for the same reason.

Yes, LeBron has lived up to most of the hype, with the exception of not winning a championship. He has already forged a hall of fame career in my opinion, even if he suffered a career ending injury playing with his sons tomorrow. To him, that is not enough and it shouldn't be either. My thing, though, is that he and the media want to crown him "best ever," and that is a fraternity in which the cost of admission is 3 rings, minimum.

[ALTRNTV]

When we’re talking about both players when they’re fully healthy, I believe that Kobe Bryant takes the cake. LeBron James deserved the MVP Award this past season, and rightfully so. He took his team to the top of the NBA for the second year in a row, but once again, fell short. Kobe has been playing with a dislocated pinky and a broken index finger. I’d love to see LeBron play with those injuries and see if he could still lead his team to the top, let alone a repeat title as Kobe did.

LeBron is a freak of nature, with amazing God-given abilities that he puts to use to his advantage. He is fast, quick, strong, smart, explosive, and an all-around amazing player. His skillset, however, is far behind Kobe’s. He has yet to develop a mid-range game. The way he bulldozes into opponents today is fine, but what happens 5 years from now when he can no longer do that and will have to rely on his non-existent mid-range game, and his non-existent post-up game? To be the best, you have to
do everything the best, and I don’t quite believe LeBron has reached that stage yet. His FT shooting, especially in closing minutes of the game, is horrendous.

Kobe is heads above LeBron in terms of footwork, FT shooting, mid-range game, post-up game, one-on-one defense, and work ethic. Kobe really has no glaring weaknesses. He may be less efficient at some skills, but he knows how to do everything else.

"It was Kobe’s presence on Team USA that upped the ante. While LeBron “led through his words and actions at practice and on the team bus,” Chris Sheridan reported, “Bryant led through his work ethic.” Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, and LeBron got a firsthand view of Kobe’s workout. The impression was lasting."

LeBron James will have his title of “Best Player in the World,” but he won’t have that title
as long as Kobe Bryant is still playing. Ask anybody, anybody in the NBA or knows basketball from a professional standpoint. They’ll all have the same answer on who they believe is the best.

Kobe Bryant earned the “Best Player in the World” title. LeBron James was handed it, on a silver platter. Unless he works on the glaring weaknesses of his game, LeBron will never be the best, and a guy named Kevin Durant might have something to say about that in a couple of years.

[greenzenki86]

Kobe Bryant earned the “Best Player in the World” title. LeBron James was handed it, on a silver platter. Unless he works on the glaring weaknesses of his game, LeBron will never be the best, and a guy named Kevin Durant might have something to say about that in a couple of years.[/quote]

yeeeeeeeeah....Kevin Durant is a beast.....I will agree with that....

[greenzenki86]

Apples to oranges, rap is a competitive arena in which one is SUPPOSED to claim to be the best, the bravado is expected. Fuck, Soulja Boy thinks he is the best rapper alive and his sales numbers somewhat support it. The judgment of that in that arena, though, is purely subjective... Sport does not work like that.

damn man, that was a pretty good fact, shit had me laughing pretty damn hard lmao :D

[vvtisupra]

Let's not forget the change in physical stature and athletisism (sp) between Jordan and Kobe "era"

I'd rather attempt a shot over robert parish than dwight howard.

[obsolete]

ok, let's not go there. Not saying that kobe wouldn't have been able to handle it, but the rules were different when jordan was playing against the bad boys, knicks and the like

[ManoNegra]

Let's not forget the change in physical stature and athletisism (sp) between Jordan and Kobe "era"

I'd rather attempt a shot over robert parish than dwight howard.

True, but I rather drive for a lay up against today's Magic instead of the then Pistons.
I may get blocked but at least I'll live to tell about it.

[Phlip]

Let's not forget the change in physical stature and athletisism (sp) between Jordan and Kobe "era"

I'd rather attempt a shot over robert parish than dwight howard.

No, let's go there...
Those rules were changed FOR Jordan. It was clear that the NBA was becoming a superstar's league and the rules for handchecking and physical play were relaxed, MJ won 6 titles and should have won 8, but he decided to suck at baseball and have adventures making extramarital babies and gambling on golf for 2 years.
The league on the whole could take a punch back then, but MJ was not one of them, he walked off the court without shaking The Pistons' hands at least once himself.
Michael Jeffrey Jordan, for all his greatest ever talk, is a FUCKING DOUCHEBAG.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Didnt Jordan learn be a douche from one of the greatest shit talker and bigger douche than him...Mr Larry Bird...

[Xplat]

Everyone's a douchebag. The only difference between people is how well they can hide it.

[racepar1]

stop comparing Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan. Jordan played in a different era where there are a lot of Hall of Famers like Clyde Drexler, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Dominic Wilkins, our own Majic Johnson, Karl Malone w/ John Stockton, and many more to mention. some of them didnt have a ring because of Michael Jordan. Jordan didnt have a Shaq like center, he had Luc Longley and Toney Kukoc, didnt have a point gaurd like Derek Fisher, he had BJ Armstrong. Kobe Bryant's era is so different. not to many good players compare before. i would say if Kobe was in Jordan's era he would even be in 5th best player. im not a Kobe hater just stop comparing him to Michael Jordan coz no matter how many Championships you have or ring you cant be Michael Jordan or be greater than him.

I actually think the exact opposite. I think that NBA players today are so much better then players in the past that it is harder to stand out. IMO this is due to advancements in training techniques and nutrition. The average NBA player today is simply more athletic then the average NBA player 20 years ago because of the advancements in technology, nutrition, and sports medicine.

Michael Jordan had plenty of other options to go with so don't even go there. Jordan wouldn't have won a single title without help and I will stand behind that to the death.

Jordan had just as many flaws as Kobe, lets not put him on some sort of ridiculous pedestal. Jordan was a supreme asshole, screwed like 10 times as many chicks on the side (except he paid them off out of court), and had the same "selfishness" issues on the court as Kobe.

I'm not going to argue about who is the better player because that is just stupid. Like you said you can't really compare them accurately. They played with two entirely different groups of poeple and I am also certain that the NBA rulebook has undergone some significant changes since Jordan's time to boot. I appreciate both players equally, and personally rank their greatness about equally. Kobe will never get out from under Jordan's shadow because Jordan came first, plain and simple.


EDIT: Oh, and FUCK LEBRON JAMES. Anyone who wants to tell me that he's the best player in basketball today doesn't know shit about basketball. While LeBron is UNQUESTIONABLY the most ATHLETICALLY TALENTED player today, and likely ever, there is more to basketball then dunks. LeBron has some GLARING maturity issues on and off the court besides any issues with his game itself (*cough*jumpshot*cough*). He is simply too young and inexperienced to be the best yet. If he does want to be the best then he has to work just like Kobe and Jordan did to get there. Referring to yourself in the third person and publically admiring your own "greatness" is not a good start...

[illvialuver]

he looks like a camel.

[revat619]

I actually think the exact opposite. I think that NBA players today are so much better then players in the past that it is harder to stand out. IMO this is due to advancements in training techniques and nutrition. The average NBA player today is simply more athletic then the average NBA player 20 years ago because of the advancements in technology, nutrition, and sports medicine.

Michael Jordan had plenty of other options to go with so don't even go there. Jordan wouldn't have won a single title without help and I will stand behind that to the death.

Jordan had just as many flaws as Kobe, lets not put him on some sort of ridiculous pedestal. Jordan was a supreme asshole, screwed like 10 times as many chicks on the side (except he paid them off out of court), and had the same "selfishness" issues on the court as Kobe.

I'm not going to argue about who is the better player because that is just stupid. Like you said you can't really compare them accurately. They played with two entirely different groups of poeple and I am also certain that the NBA rulebook has undergone some significant changes since Jordan's time to boot. I appreciate both players equally, and personally rank their greatness about equally. Kobe will never get out from under Jordan's shadow because Jordan came first, plain and simple.


EDIT: Oh, and FUCK LEBRON JAMES. Anyone who wants to tell me that he's the best player in basketball today doesn't know shit about basketball. While LeBron is UNQUESTIONABLY the most ATHLETICALLY TALENTED player today, and likely ever, there is more to basketball then dunks. LeBron has some GLARING maturity issues on and off the court besides any issues with his game itself (*cough*jumpshot*cough*). He is simply too young and inexperienced to be the best yet. If he does want to be the best then he has to work just like Kobe and Jordan did to get there. Referring to yourself in the third person and publically admiring your own "greatness" is not a good start...

WELL EFFING SAID.

Quoted because this thread should have ended here.