love/hate knockoffs? vent here

[g6civcx]

Let me know what you don't like about "knockoffs" and why.

[ThatGuy]

Lack of innovation and originality.

No Research and Development.

Morally wrong to copy. We are taught this from the time we begin learning; copying someone else's answers is cheating, and it's wrong.


My response will now fall upon deaf ears as people complain about the price of original parts, using such arguments as my "X-company" parts are just as good as "Name Brand" counterpart and I didn't have to pay for the name. Or, why should I spend money on quality parts for a car I only paid $1500 for, blah, blah, blah.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to post.

[DataXUnknown]

Honestly, there are some knockoff parts that work great, and are totally fine. I just hate having something where people go "Oh he's got a knockoff", and of course you have assurance when you buy name brand. I won't lie, I've purchased ebay parts, my downpipe for example, cracked all along the welds and broke clean off.

Same thing with my Megan manifold I had. Clean broke off the welds. Speaking of Megan, I hate Megan with all my heart I've officially boycotted Megan Racing because every single fucking part I've had from them has either had super shitty fitment or just didn't work right. I know everyone's saying now "Oh Megan has gotten better though" or "Look how low the Megan coilovers go", I don't give a fuck Megan is still Megan, and Megan is still knockoff bullshit to me.

And knockoff body kits, we all know they don't fit right, ever.

I don't care if people are like "Oh I'm broke, on a budget, blah blah blah" I am one broke mother fucker and let me tell you, I save up for good parts now. After experiencing with my old car the knockoff shit, it just makes you feel like shit. Running Godspeed suspension I felt good I had adjustable everything, but just knowing it was 'Godspeed' and when people as I had to tell them 'Godspeed' it made me feel like shit like my car wasen't good enough for me and I was not satisfied.

Fuck knockoffs.

[flip3d]

Depends on what it is. I dropped the money for Stance coils but I'm gonna go with ISIS for a lot of the parts in my KA-T build.

Knockoff is alright sometimes.

[Tom25666]

my cxracing raidator and ebay downpipe have been running strong for about 2 years now

[JVD]

I had megan coils on my S14.

They sucked asshole.

Tons of people on here will recommend them...because they don't know any better.

Poor people buy poopy parts.

[chiboy002]

Honestly, there are some knockoff parts that work great, and are totally fine. I just hate having something where people go "Oh he's got a knockoff", and of course you have assurance when you buy name brand. I won't lie, I've purchased ebay parts, my downpipe for example, cracked all along the welds and broke clean off.

Same thing with my Megan manifold I had. Clean broke off the welds. Speaking of Megan, I hate Megan with all my heart I've officially boycotted Megan Racing because every single fucking part I've had from them has either had super shitty fitment or just didn't work right. I know everyone's saying now "Oh Megan has gotten better though" or "Look how low the Megan coilovers go", I don't give a fuck Megan is still Megan, and Megan is still knockoff bullshit to me.

And knockoff body kits, we all know they don't fit right, ever.

I don't care if people are like "Oh I'm broke, on a budget, blah blah blah" I am one broke mother fucker and let me tell you, I save up for good parts now. After experiencing with my old car the knockoff shit, it just makes you feel like shit. Running Godspeed suspension I felt good I had adjustable everything, but just knowing it was 'Godspeed' and when people as I had to tell them 'Godspeed' it made me feel like shit like my car wasen't good enough for me and I was not satisfied.

Fuck knockoffs.
lemme chime in. im 16 years old. none of the parts in my car are of my parents money, unless you consider insurance and gas money. and i mean none, 0, zip. I've been saving up for a long ass time just to buy a car, i found a 240sx and parts arent cheap. Guess what body kit i bought, vertex. Why? Because i earned the fucking money. Do i wish i didnt, yes because now my car needs other things fixed. Did i learn my lesson? no. because i love buying parts for my car. Only "knock off" i have, to my knowledge cause previous owner has wierd shit on this car thats being removed, is my megan headers. Those are coming off soon since i hate the fitment. I have stance, all battleversion, and some exhaust. My car needs lots of shit done so im getting a job, im going to save up and buy things once. not twice because i don't like wasting money. even if i can't drive my car around, i dont give a shit, as long as i know im letting her rest so i can afford quality parts that wont give me a worse headache later on.

knock offs are cheap for a reason.

[sidewaysil80]

plain and simple, i have a wife and 3 children...we can afford to have a very very high quality of living because i don't buy outrageous shit for my car. i REFUSE to spend outrageous amounts of money on two things. aero and wheels. for a track car it's inevitable the above parts will eventually get mangled. so i tend to buy the cheaper i can. for aero i won't touch anything less then Bmagic and wheels are rota. now as far engine/suspension parts, yeah i usually go all name brand shit there. drifting/cars is just a hobby...i'm not going to spend AT LEAST double on something just because the majority of people approve it.

it just makes you feel like shit. Running Godspeed suspension I felt good I had adjustable everything, but just knowing it was 'Godspeed' and when people as I had to tell them 'Godspeed' it made me feel like shit like my car wasen't good enough for me and I was not satisfied
i don't mean to call you out or anything...but wow. who gives a shit dude what other people thought. In your own words it worked and didn't ride like shit...screw other people it's your money not theirs. i feel bad that you literally starting hating your ride because in your head you thought other people were thinking you were inferior! thats crazy lol.

(in no way was that supposed to be an attack on you btw)

[ThatGuy]

^I have a wife and 4 kids (I win :ddog: ), yet I still don't buy knock-offs.

I didn't buy knock offs for my 240, I don't buy knock off parts for my Suburban.

I also don't short my family on anything they need. It's called budgeting, and I do it without cutting corners on the parts I want.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I have also heard it used as an excuse to justify buying cheap parts, too many times. I am not stating that is the direction you were headed, just plotting points for my own argument. There have been more than a handful of occasions when I have sat down with someone to discuss the parts they have bought, and they have ended up spending just as much money buying knock offs various times as it would have to buy the part from a quality manufacturer that they wanted to begin with.

I'm not out to change everyone's mind about fake parts. I'm not THAT naive.

I am hoping that people can at least take SOMETHING out of my rants, if nothing more then to NEVER offer me a knock off part. lol

[I LUV MY S13]

you get what you pay for

[S14_Kouki]

I hate knock-offs. My reason is because all these knock-off company's are popping up everywhere and making all the good company's that have been around for awhile go out of business. The other thing is ppl build a 240 with alllllll knock-off parts and try to sell it for the same price as 240's with legit parts then they get all pissed when u say something about it. Fuck while im on it I hate when ppl post up all there new parts and there all knock-off's then everyone makes fun of the person and they start crying. But I do understand that not everyone has a bunch of money for the good parts but shit if your going to do something do it right and use the legit parts.

[DertyDan]

I dont mind knockoffs if they FUNCTION properly and aren't for show. I know a bunch of people that run Freddy intake manifolds that work fine, so thats cool. I know people that run megan exhaust manifolds and they crack and suck, so thats not cool.

(and i personally have Megan coilovers on my S13 and I hate them)(a lot)

The one thing that REALLY pisses me off are knock of wheels. That is a whole different game to me. I hate when people buy shitty rota's or xxr's and then try and act all baller like they have volks ssrs works ect..

[enkei2k]

i don't like knock offs because of barry's sig. (seriously, when i first read it, i thought 'holy crap, he's right')

i only buy legit stuff also. i've had my car for 2 years all i got so far are cusco strut bars, HKS exhaust, HAD volk racing rims, and legit vertex body kit (not installed due to lack of funds).

i'd rather run a fully stock car instead of a fully loaded car with knock offs.

[S14_Kouki]

i'd rather run a fully stock car instead of a fully loaded car with knock offs.

I have a dog and his name is BINGO!!!!!

[ranger240]

Poor people buy poopy parts.


thats the WORST misconception when it comes to people not "saving up" to buy volk wheels or whatever


i like alot of people here make enough money to afford 'baller' wheels or whatever else but i'm rational enough to know that blowing a grand a month or so on car parts that i dont need is a waste of money

that said, do i have knockoff parts on my car? nope. a relatively stock car > a slammed car with crap heavy wheels and giant bodykits/whatever

[g6civcx]

Lack of innovation and originality.

No Research and Development.

Morally wrong to copy. We are taught this from the time we begin learning; copying someone else's answers is cheating, and it's wrong.


My response will now fall upon deaf ears as people complain about the price of original parts, using such arguments as my "X-company" parts are just as good as "Name Brand" counterpart and I didn't have to pay for the name. Or, why should I spend money on quality parts for a car I only paid $1500 for, blah, blah, blah.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to post.

Can you give me a specific product that bugs you the most? If you're not comfortable speaking in public you can PM me.

[xBtony]

Yea most knockoffs kinda piss me off. I mean i roll sportmax, and i fuckin hate them. But u know what, right now i cant afford anything better, and they dont look terible on my car. so whatever. Other then that i cant think of much knockoff shit im runinn (on the xB at least, s13 is no where near even needing knockoff or legit parts. haha)

[ThatGuy]

Can you give me a specific product that bugs you the most? If you're not comfortable speaking in public you can PM me.

Safety Equipment - "Variant" Seats, generic webbing harnesses
Suspension Components - Blatant reproductions of long standing companies parts
Engine Components - to include exhausts
Wheels - This list can go on for days, and we all know it
Aerodynamics and Bodykits - If you have to include the word "style" in the title, or change the spelling of the original manufacturer, something is wrong

[S13 Matt]

Fitment is always hit and miss with knock-off. I prefer the piece of mind a quality part offers.

[g6civcx]

Suspension Components - Blatant reproductions of long standing companies parts

Let's take this one. I have several questions for you.

200 years ago when Thomas Jefferson and the Founding Fathers sat around the table drafting the Constitution, they wanted to promote innovation and the progress of science, but they also wanted to protect inventors from being copied. They wanted to encourage scientists and inventors to develop new technology to benefit the public without fear of someone stealing their hard work.

This is the exact same problem we're talking about so this is nothing new.

The solution they came up with is very close to our current legal system.

When you design a new product, you pay the government, a neutral arbitor, a nominal fee. The government then does an independent inspection to make sure you didn't in fact steal the product from someone else.

If you pass the test, you are granted a limited time to benefit from your invention. After the time period expires, the invention becomes part of the public domain and anybody can use your invention.

The limited time period is your payoff for allowing the public to further develop your invention later on so we can have more technology.


Now if you don't go through the process and bring your product to the market, they assume that you don't care or your invention is not worth protecting. Your product instantly becomes part of the public domain and anybody can freely copy you with no penalty.

Now comes the questions for you.

1. If a company never went through the process, how do you know they actually invented their product without stealing from someone else? Their sworn statement is not good enough. Someone has to actually investigate to see that they actually came up with the idea and that there was no foul play.

2. If a company doesn't want to go through the process and sells the product any way, the Founding Fathers considers this to be that the company doesn't care about their product. It only costs $100 to register your invention and anyone can do it. You don't need a legal background.

So if they don't want to pay $100 to protect their own invention from being copied, why should we care?

3. Selling your product without going through the process is the same as intentionally leaving your money on public property and not claiming your money. Anyone can take the money and it's not considered theft because you never claimed it. Whose fault is it that you lost money?

[udon!]

honestly, ive come to care less about the people that run knockoffs.

I understand thier reasoning 110%. Most of those dudes just wanna get out there asap and "tear shit up". I have no problem with that at all.

as for me, im one of the guys that wants to have a really nice personal car that will see the track often, but im not going to be doing door to door tandems untill I have a daily driver, or just decide to give up on having a super baller car so I can initiate inches from the wall.


In the end im just a huge "jdm drift style" (or whatever you guys want to call it) fucking fanboi, but I keep my shit fucking REAL .

Dont know if you guys have noticed, but from what ive seen, these cars are like the mustangs/camaros of japan. In japan they are really fucking serious about performance shit. Why do you think ikeya formula arms ect.... are so expensive? Most likely because the people designing those parts are actually enginners and have years of experience under thier belts.

[ronmcdon]

I really don't care if it's a knockoff as long as quality isn't compromised.
just comes down to doing research and finding out what gets the job done.

I've got a Megan catback in my s14 (that may or may not be a knockoff).
It works fine, fits well, has been durable, and best of all cost a modest $300.
I have a set of Rotas on my civic beater and it gets the job done.
Don't care a whole lot if they get stolen (has happened before).

If it serves it purpose, that's all I care.
I won't skimp if it jeopardizes reliability or utility.

a relatively stock car > a slammed car with crap heavy wheels and giant bodykits/whatever

lol, I thought I was the only one on Zilvia that felt that way.

[D.Adams]

I bought a set of MEGAN ruca's that was the worst investment on my car to this day. I bought them because i was in a bind and wanted to fix my camber issue so i wouldnt go through a set of tires on my trip to texas. I did a local run here and bent one of the RUCA's. Megan is by far a good company.

After i saved the money i got a set of PBM ruca's and i should of saved for them in the first place. I learned that knock offs are knock offs some people love them some people hate them but to each there own.

[91JayBlueSupra]

Why buy the fake thing people say? I Agree. Someone took the time to create a quality product. The most common response I hear from the public is, it cost so much less to get the knock off. Yes it may, but the knock items you buy for your car are not always a perfect fitment. I am sure many of us ( I will not lie I have had this happen ) have bought something you thought would work just as well and it didn't even fit well.

That is one reason why I stay to name brands. They have done the research and they have the cars in their shops to test fit the products produced. Some companies dyno their new products to give you realistic gains. Knock off products are companies that create the same ( Look ) but not always the same quality.

A few things I never skim on are wheels, brakes, turbos, fuel parts, and drive train. Who cares what shift knob you use, or what floor mats you have. It is about creating a true car that will last and run well. Knock offs are to get people by, until their car blows up.

/rant

[ronmcdon]

The name brand parts don't always fit or work all that great.
Look at some of the Greddy parts for instance.
Fitment of their elbow/dp on my S14 was shit.
Their boost controller (w/dial) is a complete pita.

[Gizmo_S13]

I have a knock off Quick release and Steering wheel I got it mostly for security but I'm still gonna buy the Sparco one I want. Soon...Cash is low so.

[udon!]

some of the knockoffs nowadays look like they come from toys r us.

literrally. go look at the little kid bikes @ toys r us, and compare them to knockoff coilovers. There probably made in the same factory.

Only knockoff i think is acceptable is front bumper/side skirts/rear bumper if youre car is extremey low, and is daily driven.

[TougeLove]

a lot of good points here. to add a few more, im not paying 1700 for a kit that i could very well throw into a wall. im getting better on the track but not enough to spend real money and no sponsors to help me out.

for wheels, im not buying $2,000 rims and putting them on my daily. i have a garage now but in the future i may not be so lucky and would be pissed if my car gets stolen or my rims get "jacked".

too many poor peeps in so cal looking to steal anything for a buck socal-ftl

[iamtheyi]

I get Legit parts to support the companies that did all the R&D. I don't want some other company to steal their hardwork. I wait it out until I have enough money. Takes a really long ass time though.

[sidewaysil80]

I also don't short my family on anything they need. It's called budgeting, and I do it without cutting corners on the parts I want.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I have also heard it used as an excuse to justify buying cheap parts, too many times. I am not stating that is the direction you were headed, just plotting points for my own argument.

lol i see your point. my thing is it's just a hobby so if i'm going to save money for a big purchase...instead of wheels i'd rather it be a 46" lcd tv. and that $600 bucks saved on aero goes right into the trusty ol' TSP (so when i retire i can buy by porsche gt3-rs and never have to buy an after market part again LOL). i also think are some people who truly can't afford name brand. why should they roll stock because they can't afford top dollar parts? thats like saying unless you have a rolex or tag you should'nt where a watch. some people make the best out of what they can afford...who are we to judge them and deprive them from the fun and hobby of owning a modded car? but unfortuneatley, not everyone is as truthful or noble as me :cool: and they do hide behind the family excuse or the money excuse just because they are impulsive or cheap, especially the ones who say "it's a track car, thats why.." but never track their car. but i'll tell you what...my ABSOLUTE BIGGEST PET PEEVE IS: people who buy fake shit and try to pass it off as the real deal!

[Mikey213]

HAHAHAHA Zilvia is funny, Someone could be talking about knockoffs then one replies with the fucken history of Antarctica or some shit hahahahah

[bb4_96]

No knockoffs. Used, lightly used, and "BNIB" name brand parts procured from heavily indebted zilvia boarders FTMFW!!!!!!!!!

[ThatGuy]

Let's take this one. I have several questions for you.

200 years ago when Thomas Jefferson and the Founding Fathers sat around the table drafting the Constitution, they wanted to promote innovation and the progress of science, but they also wanted to protect inventors from being copied. They wanted to encourage scientists and inventors to develop new technology to benefit the public without fear of someone stealing their hard work.

This is the exact same problem we're talking about so this is nothing new.

The solution they came up with is very close to our current legal system.

When you design a new product, you pay the government, a neutral arbitor, a nominal fee. The government then does an independent inspection to make sure you didn't in fact steal the product from someone else.

If you pass the test, you are granted a limited time to benefit from your invention. After the time period expires, the invention becomes part of the public domain and anybody can use your invention.

The limited time period is your payoff for allowing the public to further develop your invention later on so we can have more technology.


Now if you don't go through the process and bring your product to the market, they assume that you don't care or your invention is not worth protecting. Your product instantly becomes part of the public domain and anybody can freely copy you with no penalty.

Now comes the questions for you.

1. If a company never went through the process, how do you know they actually invented their product without stealing from someone else? Their sworn statement is not good enough. Someone has to actually investigate to see that they actually came up with the idea and that there was no foul play.

2. If a company doesn't want to go through the process and sells the product any way, the Founding Fathers considers this to be that the company doesn't care about their product. It only costs $100 to register your invention and anyone can do it. You don't need a legal background.

So if they don't want to pay $100 to protect their own invention from being copied, why should we care?

3. Selling your product without going through the process is the same as intentionally leaving your money on public property and not claiming your money. Anyone can take the money and it's not considered theft because you never claimed it. Whose fault is it that you lost money?

I understand your points, and I have seen this argument used before. I don't personally know what it takes to copyright and protect your design, as I don't manufacture parts. One hundred dollars definitely isn't much and while I can say shame on them for not protecting themselves, at the same time I'm not going to blame the guy who got mugged because he didn't pay for a permit to carry a firearm for protection. By the way, does it work the same when the part is protected by that $100 in America, but the parts are being copied in China?

Good debate.

[MADE]

As stated before I buy what I want and you buy what you like. It kills me when people knock what another man purchased. Reminds me of elementry when people try to check the tags on your shit to see if it was fake.

[g6civcx]

I understand your points, and I have seen this argument used before

Thank you for understanding. I was afraid this would turn into a penis measuring contest, which I did not intend at all. I help big Fortune 500 as well as small companies protect their design for a living and I take infringement very seriously!

I don't personally know what it takes to copyright and protect your design, as I don't manufacture parts

You don't need to pay anyone anything to copyright your work. The copyright is yours at the time you created the work. You just have to prove it with a timestamp.

Copyrights only protect printed materials, artwork, and music. Basically things that you can "copy" using a photocopier/camera/CD-burner. Copyrights don't protect physical objects.

One hundred dollars definitely isn't much and while I can say shame on them for not protecting themselves, at the same time I'm not going to blame the guy who got mugged because he didn't pay for a permit to carry a firearm for protection.

Your analogy is not the same. When you get mugged, you have legal ownership of your belongings. The person who mugged you committed theft and robbery because you legally own the personal belongings.

What you described is more like someone infringing on Bride who actually went through the process.


What I'm talking about is you leaving money on the sidewalk. Someone walks by and asks you if you want your money. You ignore them and walk away.

Then anyone can take your money since you already declined to claim your money and walked away.

By the way, does it work the same when the part is protected by that $100 in America, but the parts are being copied in China?

The coverage only protects you under the jurisdiction of US courts. Wherever the issue is, if the US doesn't have jurisdiction, they can't enforce your US property rights.

China may choose to enforce US property rights at their discretion, but you will probably have to file one in China.

You can get them when they into the US. Anybody who possesses your stuff in the US is considered to be in possession of stolen goods and you can go after them.

[ThatGuy]

The difference is Physical Property as opposed to designs and ideas.

I know legally they are not the same, I'm talking more morally wrong.
That's where I maintain my naivety. I keep hoping that people will be honest and forthcoming enough NOT to take someone else's design and hard work, just because it isn't protected. To me, it's would be the same as finding someone else's term paper laying on the sidewalk and turning it in for your grade.

I know, I'm probably off base, but I am a man of ideals. :bow:

[g6civcx]

The difference is Physical Property as opposed to designs and ideas.

In law they're the same. They're just different classes of property. Infringement is treated the same way if they trespass on your land or your idea.

I know legally they are not the same, I'm talking more morally wrong.
That's where I maintain my naivety. I keep hoping that people will be honest and forthcoming enough NOT to take someone else's design and hard work, just because it isn't protected. To me, it's would be the same as finding someone else's term paper laying on the sidewalk and turning it in for your grade.

I know, I'm probably off base, but I am a man of ideals. :bow:

The Founding Fathers would strongly disagree with you. This is why.

In order for technology to progress, we have to reuse ideas before us. We have to stand on the shoulder of giants if you will.

Innovation made by each person's lifetime is very small, but cumulatively over many generations of building on top of each other gives us great technology.


Not only is copying each other okay, it's actually encouraged. Someone invents the wheel. Someone else takes the wheel and invents an axle. Someone else takes the axle and makes a carriage. Someone else takes the carriage and makes a car.

The leap from nothing to wheel to axle to carriage to car is incremental, but the leap from nothing to the car is HUGE. If you were not allowed to copy previous technology, we would have no car since it's very very difficult to design a whole car from the ground up.


When you invent something new, the only way to make sure no one steals from you is to hide it. There's still no guarantee because someone else can acidentally invent the same thing independent of you.

It's not about stealing. It's about promoting scientific cooperation. If you invented something, good for you. You can have a limited time to profit from your invention, but ater the time period expires, your invention becomes public domain and other scientists are free to improve your design.


Keep in mind that making something cheaper is an improvement over the existing product. If you invent cold fusion, but I can make it for $5, my design is an improvement over your design because I make it cheaper.


What you want people to do is not fair for the following reasons:

1. The company has not demonstrated that they are the original inventor. They could have killed someone and stole his design, then later sold it as their own. We don't have much homicide as we do industrial espionage, but it does happen.

We can't automatically assume that if a company sells something, that they are the first to invent. We need an independent audit of what they did to determine if they didn't steal from someone else.

2. If you allow a company to own its design forever, this is unfair use because the natural progression of technology is to make things cheaper. What you want to do is in fact stifling innovation and preventing the public from researching cheaper ways to build the same thing.

3. If we let people claim whatever they want with no checkup, greed would drive people to claim that they own everything. We need to check to make sure who actually invented what.




Now if they actually have gone through the process and has been found to be the original inventor, and someone infringes their idea, I take this very seriously.

We are on the same page as far as infringement goes. The difference between you and me is that I require that the invention go through the process, whereas you take the people at their words. Greed/ignorance will always make people think they invented everything

When someone is looking at a particular design, you will be surprised how much of the design is actually well known features already invented by other people. Most of the inventions we have are actually in fact very small improvements over what other people have done before.


No doubt you are of ideals. I just think that your ideals do not line up with Thomas Jefferson, the Founding Fathers, or current US law as they currently exist.

[ManoNegra]

knockoff companies don't R&D
they don't have stringent quality control
they don't innovate
they don't care about the community or scene
they are in it to capitalize on trends and fads to make a quick buck
do we really need another set of Ikeya knockoff suspension arms that look identical to 5 others?
do we really need another set of cheap ass coilovers?

[CrimsonRockett]

The thing is though, these knock off companies aren't taking a product, reviewing it, and seeing how they can improve it. They take something, copy it, and figure out how to produce them while spending the least amount of money. This means lesser quality materials will be used resulting in a lower quality product.

So, if anything, these knock off companies are taking us a step back instead of trying to move forward. I'm sure our founding fathers wouldn't like that.

People that keep using money as an excuse, please. No one is forcing you to buy new.

I remember when I first started to build up my project S13. I bought nothing but used parts. I would end up paying just around the same amount as a knock off product would cost new.

[ronmcdon]

knockoff companies don't R&D
they don't have stringent quality control
they don't innovate
they don't care about the community or scene
they are in it to capitalize on trends and fads to make a quick buck
do we really need another set of Ikeya knockoff suspension arms that look identical to 5 others?
do we really need another set of cheap ass coilovers?

What's to say the same doesn't apply to your run-of-the-mill jdm aftermarket company?

Most sell pretty much the same shit, have their manufacturing done in China.
What's to guarantee their QC is any better?
If you're not in the factories, you can't say.
Likewise it's unfair to claim that all knock-off companies lack QC either.
If their stuff didn't work, it be a matter of time before they went out of business.

Every company pretty much capitalizes off fads.
All are those ricer bov's sold by Greddy, HKS, etc, updated almost every year entirely necessarily from a utility perspective?

Are all the name brand JDM coilovers really all that different from one another?
Is there that much innovation from Japan today?

Think we should measure merit on behalf of the company, product, and price.
If Megan can do an exhaust at half the price of a Japanese company and not sacrifice quality, then that in itself speaks of high quality QC and innovation.

From a business perspective, it's not unreasonable to offset a higher profit margin with higher volume in sales.
Cheaper price doesn't always equate to worse quality in product.

[ThatGuy]

The Founding Fathers would strongly disagree with you. This is why.

...(content removed to save space, not to remove any of your topic points. :bow:)...

No doubt you are of ideals. I just think that your ideals do not line up with Thomas Jefferson, the Founding Fathers, or current US law as they currently exist.

The "Founding Fathers" were also looking out for the best interests of OUR NATION. Certainly they would make things like this viable for the United States to capitalize on the inventions of scientists from other countries (who had been established longer and had the intellectual supierority of the day). [Think Edison versus Tesla] I don't think they counted on "sweat shops" pounding out car parts in China and Korea when they were devising this plan.

I like your argument. I like your level of research and knowledge. I'm just trying to make the setting a bit more relevant. :bow:

[g6civcx]

The "Founding Fathers" were also looking out for the best interests of OUR NATION. Certainly they would make things like this viable for the United States to capitalize on the inventions of scientists from other countries (who had been established longer and had the intellectual supierority of the day)

Actually Thomas Jefferson was more egalitarian than that. He and his associates just wanted to advance science regardless of origin because they believed that science and technology is key to the success of the country.

You can glean that when you read his manuscripts. You'd be surprised what we use now that actually existed in some form back 200 years ago.

I don't think they counted on "sweat shops" pounding out car parts in China and Korea when they were devising this plan.

Actually they thought about this extensively. Keep in mind that this debate was happening concurrently with the tariff debate. They knew exactly what was going on with imported goods and all that.

I like your argument. I like your level of research and knowledge. I'm just trying to make the setting a bit more relevant. :bow:

I understand.

It definitely helps because I locked myself in the basement of the Jefferson engineering archives for like 3 years and went through all his manuscripts. It's really fascinating. I really developed a deep respect for the people who founded this country and what they went through. Definitely not the crybaby yuppy we have now.

Did you know that Jefferson was trying to build a prototype of the da Vinci flying machine?

His encryption technique to hide messages from the Brits is still be taught today in college courses in computer security.

Did you know that he was conceiving complex computing machines very similar to computers that we have now?

It's very humbling experience to see that our generation is not as smart and innovative as we like to think we are.

What's to say the same doesn't apply to your run-of-the-mill jdm aftermarket company?

Most sell pretty much the same shit, have their manufacturing done in China.
What's to guarantee their QC is any better?
If you're not in the factories, you can't say.
Likewise it's unfair to claim that all knock-off companies lack QC either.
If their stuff didn't work, it be a matter of time before they went out of business.

Every company pretty much capitalizes off fads.
All are those ricer bov's sold by Greddy, HKS, etc, updated almost every year entirely necessarily from a utility perspective?

Are all the name brand JDM coilovers really all that different from one another?
Is there that much innovation from Japan today?

Think we should measure merit on behalf of the company, product, and price.
If Megan can do an exhaust at half the price of a Japanese company and not sacrifice quality, then that in itself speaks of high quality QC and innovation.

From a business perspective, it's not unreasonable to offset a higher profit margin with higher volume in sales.
Cheaper price doesn't always equate to worse quality in product.

You get my gold star of approval for the day for presenting good counterpoints.

[240XTC]

The real deal is great. Knock offs work.

Morons who speak of a product they've never experienced should kill themselves as the following sheep that they truly are. :)

[Number1]

The real deal is great. Knock offs work.

Morons who speak of a product they've never experienced should kill themselves as the following sheep that they truly are. :)



lmao :stupid:

[DALAZ_68]

if a manufacturer takes an existing product, and improves it, then sells it, I have no issue, it benefits all...


if the same manufacturer takes an existing product...ant simply replicates it, with poorer quality materials...fuck that...


i think the biggest issue here is, no one can simply take all said product, I.E. 1 set of megans, one set of Tein, one set of Zeal's etc, cut them up and analize every item...

we could all easily argue that broken parts are perhaps just user error...fine...but like i said...im pretty sure all the talk would be finallized with actual breakdowns...

its not as easy as say comparing L.A. river water to Dasani Water, the difference is visibal...and we all know which we would all prefer once we saw it...

going back to g6civcx argument
Someone invents the wheel. Someone else takes the wheel and invents an axle. Someone else takes the axle and makes a carriage. Someone else takes the carriage and makes a car.


that is not what is going on here...whats happening here is more along the lines of...someone events a wheel made of metal, someone sees that and makes it out of wood, someone sees that and makes it out of clay... same shape? yes, same quality? no... is cost cheaper sure...will it work, yeah...but at what cost to the buyer?

thats just how i see it...and frankly when i buy i tend to talk to those who use the products im considering...and yes going to more than one source for refrence is always best when it comes to things like this...

[Mikey213]

That must have been one crazy wheel event! ^ hehehe j/p

I remember when I first started to build up my project S13. I bought nothing but used parts. I would end up paying just around the same amount as a knock off product would cost new. __________________

Yup! Kids need to realize this. But I'm not sure how old you were when you started building your s13 but I remember used parts when I started were less abused and cheaper if you had the hook up. Shoot I remember buying a nice suspension set for 200$! off a friend's importing facility.

[ManoNegra]

What's to say the same doesn't apply to your run-of-the-mill jdm aftermarket company?
Nothing, why do you assume I advocate them
I don't own nor plan to own anything performance related from DMax, PBD, etc, etc
I'm not a JDM whore
I like quality parts, preferably US made

Most sell pretty much the same shit, have their manufacturing done in China.
What's to guarantee their QC is any better?

I agree, never said otherwise

If you're not in the factories, you can't say.
no, I'm not
but I do talk to people that are from time to time

Likewise it's unfair to claim that all knock-off companies lack QC either.
never said they don't
I said their QC is not stringent

If their stuff didn't work, it be a matter of time before they went out of business.

how many cases of suspension arms breaking
manifolds cracking
wheels sheering
turbos falling apart
etc, etc are out there?
lots, yet people will still buy items based solely on price
and still whine about products costing too much

Every company pretty much capitalizes off fads.
All are those ricer bov's sold by Greddy, HKS, etc, updated almost every year entirely necessarily from a utility perspective?

Agree to a degree,
the quality and selection of products from established companies appears to me to have degraded over time
but these are also the companies that shelled out money on R&D to bring you a quality performance products before the s-chassis was the 'it' car for kids to get.
cost reductions to compete in today's market?
adopting the practices of knock off companies to stay relevant?
interesting topic but not the one at hand


Are all the name brand JDM coilovers really all that different from one another?
Is there that much innovation from Japan today?

I've already agreed with this point
I don't advocate the majority of crap being offered
whether JDM or USDM


Think we should measure merit on behalf of the company, product, and price.
If Megan can do an exhaust at half the price of a Japanese company and not sacrifice quality, then that in itself speaks of high quality QC and innovation.

Probably because they didn't have to pay someone to design it and test it
but rather picked it from a catalog
hardest part was probably choosing the size and location of their logo

From a business perspective, it's not unreasonable to offset a higher profit margin with higher volume in sales.
Cheaper price doesn't always equate to worse quality in product.

Not always, but usually does
at least in our community

[lflkajfj12123]

Parasites suck.

[ericcastro]

that is not what is going on here...whats happening here is more along the lines of...someone events a wheel made of metal, someone sees that and makes it out of wood, someone sees that and makes it out of clay... same shape? yes, same quality? no... is cost cheaper sure...will it work, yeah...but at what cost to the buyer?


I am actually glad that skateboards started with metal wheels.
Then went to clay.
Then those were knocked off with Urithane, lol

lol.

Not really realavent, just wanted to give Steve shit,lol.

I just stopped by to see what 240XTC wrote and got pinked for, LMAO!

i already did this discussion several times this year.
Thought we had all agreed.
The pricey stuff is great.
you CAN get away with the cheaper stuff.
The Pricey stuff knocked off existing technologies too and have made their R&D
The interwebs have changed everything, business needs to modernize or die.
Most knock offs arent actually knock offs at all, but cheaper versions of a product, but still better then OEM.
A knock off is a gucci purse that is sold on venice beach for $20 new.

[240KA]

OP i am very disappointed in you for starting this retarded post. i enjoyed your insurance post and respected you for that, but this...?

who fucking cares. why do you people need to vent? what bearing does someone buying rotas have on your life? get over it and live your own life. is it really going to help you any by venting? people buying knockoffs really bothers you that much that you need some social intervention to help you get through the day?

[ThatGuy]

240KA, calm down.

Evidently you haven't read what the "OP" has posted.

If you'd like to add to the conversation/debate, then please do so.
Just coming in here and ranting and swearing doesn't do anything productive though.

[g6civcx]

that is not what is going on here...whats happening here is more along the lines of...someone events a wheel made of metal, someone sees that and makes it out of wood, someone sees that and makes it out of clay... same shape? yes, same quality? no... is cost cheaper sure...will it work, yeah...but at what cost to the buyer?

Scenario 1: you have your way and no one can duplicate the wheel with other materials.

We have:

metal wheel - $1000

Scenario 2: you let other people make wheels out of other material

We then have:

metal wheel - $1000
wooden wheel - $500
clay wheel - $100


I as the consumer would choose Scenario 2 because I have more choices. Not every application requires the durability and cost of metal. For my car, yes. For my wheel barrow, wooden works just fine. For my mockup, clay would be just fine.

I don't see any problem with this from the consumer's point of view provided that I know what I'm buying.


If the wooden/clay wheel manufacturer is marketing their product as metal, then that's false advertising and we have a different problem.


In Scenario 1, you hurt consumers like me. I understand what I'm buying. I don't need people you to decide what kind of quality and cost I need to buy.

Sometimes I want good quality. Someimes I want cheaper prices. It depends on the application.

I don't want you to force me to just one choice because you personally feel it's the best quality and R&D. I don't need you to make the decision for me. I'd rather have more choices and choose for myself.


Scenario 2 benefits most consumers. Ignorant/cheap people will always buy inferior goods, but that's their problem and not mine. I know what I want and I know how much I want to pay.

[g6civcx]

And if you truly value R&D, and I mean true R&D, you need to stay OEM. Every major manufacturer, including Nissan, spends much, much more R&D money than your typical aftermarket company.

Most companies just installs the parts on a car and drive around the track a couple times. Then it becomes "track tested". They simply just don't have the budget to do hardcore stress analysis like OEMs.

Some of my clients like GM/Ford/Chrysler spend more R&D than your typical "tuner" house.

If you want quality, GM/Ford/Chrysler will warranty their parts and will fix stuff for you. Plus they'll pay you liability if you wreck your car.

Aftermarket companies will only replace parts due to workmanhip only.


If you want true R&D, quality, and originality, nothing beats Nismo.

[lflkajfj12123]

Why did you delete my post? What the hell.

[twin_vector_turbo]

And if you truly value R&D, and I mean true R&D, you need to stay OEM. Every major manufacturer, including Nissan, spends much, much more R&D money than your typical aftermarket company.

Most companies just installs the parts on a car and drive around the track a couple times. Then it becomes "track tested". They simply just don't have the budget to do hardcore stress analysis like OEMs.

Some of my clients like GM/Ford/Chrysler spend more R&D than your typical "tuner" house.

If you want quality, GM/Ford/Chrysler will warranty their parts and will fix stuff for you. Plus they'll pay you liability if you wreck your car.

Aftermarket companies will only replace parts due to workmanhip only.


If you want true R&D, quality, and originality, nothing beats Nismo.

Nicely put.

[ronmcdon]

Nothing, why do you assume I advocate them
I don't own nor plan to own anything performance related from DMax, PBD, etc, etc
I'm not a JDM whore
I like quality parts, preferably US made

I agree, never said otherwise

no, I'm not
but I do talk to people that are from time to time

never said they don't
I said their QC is not stringent

how many cases of suspension arms breaking
manifolds cracking
wheels sheering
turbos falling apart
etc, etc are out there?
lots, yet people will still buy items based solely on price
and still whine about products costing too much

Agree to a degree,
the quality and selection of products from established companies appears to me to have degraded over time
but these are also the companies that shelled out money on R&D to bring you a quality performance products before the s-chassis was the 'it' car for kids to get.
cost reductions to compete in today's market?
adopting the practices of knock off companies to stay relevant?
interesting topic but not the one at hand

I've already agreed with this point
I don't advocate the majority of crap being offered
whether JDM or USDM

Probably because they didn't have to pay someone to design it and test it
but rather picked it from a catalog
hardest part was probably choosing the size and location of their logo

Not always, but usually does
at least in our community

Sorry Juan, I never intended to address you in particular or you advocating JDM.
just voicing my opinion to the statements you made about the industry in general.
It's entirely impersonal and I hope I did not come across as trying to attack :)
Likewise I'm more preferential to US aftermarket suppliers, but that's another discussion.

Basically I think all products develop a reputation in time.
It's up to the consumer to research and they only have themselves to blame if they get something that fails them (for the price they pay especially).
let the buyer beware.
If we choose to be lax about doing research and getting less than we bargained for, we only have ourselves to blame.
I really do believe that any given company's/consumer's success/failure speaks for itself.

I personally don't think there's really all that innovation going on with 240 parts period.
It's an older car made 20 yrs ago.
How much room is there for innovation for utility parts realistically?
Looking at coilovers alone, knock off or not, it's the same deal.
You get your typical spring rates, shock dyno specs, etc.
Whats to say even brand name parts don't plagarize off other brand name parts?

How are we to know how much 'such & such' co invested into R&D without resorting to presumtions?
Do you know for a fact precisely how much, say KW (established brand name imo) invested vs. say Megan?
Is there always a direct 'cause & effect' relationship between amount invested into R&D with respect to quality.
Is the utmost quality always entirely necessary for all & every application out there?

With QC, I'm not necessarily saying it is or is not stringent.
I'm saying it's hard to prove it's any more stringent than name brand parts,
for EVERY given part.
Name brand parts aren't always stringent with QC,
and that I have first hand exprience with (esp w/ Greddy parts).

I think part of this debate also needs to address the definition of brand name parts.
It's not always good, innovative, or a good value.
Some brand name parts are better than others
(I would take something from say a manifold from Full-Race over Greddy/HKS)

Cost cutting practices are entirely relevant to the discussion at hand.
My opinion is that cheaper parts don't necessarily equate to inferior quality.
We also don't know what the profit margin of brand name parts.
They could be raping us for all we know.
Cheaper parts will sell at increased volume.
Increased volume allow profitabilty at higher volume.

Also, business is business.
Companies are there to make money as a priority.
The state of aftermarket customer is what it is.
There is a decent demand for cheaper parts
Many brand name companies aren't doing so well.
It's up to companies to adapt or go out of business.
To be fair this has not been easy in the last few years.

Hope I've addressed your questions at least semi-thoughtfully.
if not apologies as I'm not entirely sober as I'm typing this.

[singlecamslam]

I got MB's just like 80% of people on here. I think its dumb to buy wheels that are 2k + and run them on the track. Everything but the wheels on my car is legit, but i cant see myself spending more than 1k on wheels, thats just ridiculous to me. MY OPINION.

[ronmcdon]

Scenario 1: you have your way and no one can duplicate the wheel with other materials.

We have:

metal wheel - $1000

Scenario 2: you let other people make wheels out of other material

We then have:

metal wheel - $1000
wooden wheel - $500
clay wheel - $100


I as the consumer would choose Scenario 2 because I have more choices. Not every application requires the durability and cost of metal. For my car, yes. For my wheel barrow, wooden works just fine. For my mockup, clay would be just fine.

I don't see any problem with this from the consumer's point of view provided that I know what I'm buying.


If the wooden/clay wheel manufacturer is marketing their product as metal, then that's false advertising and we have a different problem.


In Scenario 1, you hurt consumers like me. I understand what I'm buying. I don't need people you to decide what kind of quality and cost I need to buy.

Sometimes I want good quality. Someimes I want cheaper prices. It depends on the application.

I don't want you to force me to just one choice because you personally feel it's the best quality and R&D. I don't need you to make the decision for me. I'd rather have more choices and choose for myself.


Scenario 2 benefits most consumers. Ignorant/cheap people will always buy inferior goods, but that's their problem and not mine. I know what I want and I know how much I want to pay.

Absolutely, we don't always need the absolute best of everything.
Even 'brand name' companies offer different grades of quality depending on user preferences (ie - Tein).

I am actually glad that skateboards started with metal wheels.
Then went to clay.
Then those were knocked off with Urithane, lol

lol.

Not really realavent, just wanted to give Steve shit,lol.

I just stopped by to see what 240XTC wrote and got pinked for, LMAO!

i already did this discussion several times this year.
Thought we had all agreed.
The pricey stuff is great.
you CAN get away with the cheaper stuff.
The Pricey stuff knocked off existing technologies too and have made their R&D
The interwebs have changed everything, business needs to modernize or die.
Most knock offs arent actually knock offs at all, but cheaper versions of a product, but still better then OEM.
A knock off is a gucci purse that is sold on venice beach for $20 new.

I am with you on this one.
It's actually a virtue to spend as less as possible as long as the purpose is served.
Anything beyond is just a matter of bragging.
This is why I fully respect companies like Godspeed.

OP i am very disappointed in you for starting this retarded post. i enjoyed your insurance post and respected you for that, but this...?

who fucking cares. why do you people need to vent? what bearing does someone buying rotas have on your life? get over it and live your own life. is it really going to help you any by venting? people buying knockoffs really bothers you that much that you need some social intervention to help you get through the day?

To be fair, G6CiVx brings a refreshing perspective to the existing debate and it's very thought provoking imo.
It's not venting at all, and I sense no emtional rant either.
That is my impression at least.

[S14_Kouki]

I got MB's just like 80% of people on here. I think its dumb to buy wheels that are 2k + and run them on the track. Everything but the wheels on my car is legit, but i cant see myself spending more than 1k on wheels, thats just ridiculous to me. MY OPINION.

My point too. I dont see the reason on buying 2k+ rims to fuck them up at the track (unless you just have a bunch of money to buy rims). Ill have my mb's for the track and invest in a expensive set of rims for DD'ing. But if u go that way you should just get a set of z wheels or se wheels ect ect, plus 16 inch tires are easyer to find :)

[g6civcx]

To be fair, G6CiVx brings a refreshing perspective to the existing debate and it's very thought provoking imo.
It's not venting at all, and I sense no emtional rant either.
That is my impression at least.

I'm glad somebody is having a good time.

I think most people agree that stealing is bad. The problem is that we have to be very careful about what we consider to be theft. You can't steal something that belongs to the public.

My point is this. If you actually looked at each product and tried to determine what exactly is new, you will find that 99% is just rehasing old designs. Very rarely will you get something 100% new.

Like in 1997 I invented something very similar to the iphone. It was a PDA that has gesture recognition to allow you to pan, zoom, and rotate. You can also use it as a phone. You can program different apps for it. The closest thing available at that time was the Palm OS, and that wasn't even close to my design.

Functionally, there is no difference between my design and the iphone. The pratical difference between my design and Apple's design is that Apple made theirs cheaper to manufacture. They also made the user interface a lot more pleasant.

There were many other designs like mine that all pretty much did the same thing. Apple cashed in because of the execution based on asthetics and the programming of the OS and GUI, not any new functionality that we didn't know before.

[deolio]

in general, knockoffs piss me off. but in some cases they can be ok and in others they aren't.

knockoff ok:
-you just wanna build a fun track car for cheap, but don't act like it's the shit
-you've got a family to support on marginal income, but don't want to have to completely give up your passion for modding your car
-you broke a part and need a temporary fix
-aero for a drift car

knockoff not ok:
-your car cost over $12k
-you can afford to buy non-knockoff parts
-you want to make your car a "badass drift car"
-anything that comes under stress

[ManoNegra]

Sorry Juan, I never intended to address you in particular or you advocating JDM.
just voicing my opinion to the statements you made about the industry in general.
It's entirely impersonal and I hope I did not come across as trying to attack :)
Likewise I'm more preferential to US aftermarket suppliers, but that's another discussion.


Sorry, just saw your post
no sweat man, I didn't take offense
it's a topic that I'm opinionated about because it sickens me the
continual flooding of crap look-a-like parts for our cars
I still think there are areas where products can improve
and/or where a few new products can be still be developed

[sirfallsalot243]

Ive bought knock off's before. I tend to stay away from them unless im in a bind, but even when I am in a bind, I REFUSE to use Megan parts. My exhaust didnt fit right when i bought it, I had a tension rod break after only a few months (heim completely ripped out of the TR body), ive tried their shitty ass short throw shifter... Fuck that. Constant rattling. Anything they make has a 6 month lifespan once put on the car, MAX. So fuck Megan.

"Ohhh, but theyve gotten better."

No they havent. They still sell the same crap they always have. Sure, their tension rods are good looking and adjustable and cheap. Doesnt do me any fucking good if they only last me eight weeks. Went back to stock, best decision i ever made.

I'm really not TOTALLY against knock offs, because it does force the real companies to stay competitive with their pricing. If the quality is there (which it rarely ever is), then ill consider it. Only after reading MANY peoples thoughts on that exact part.

[g6civcx]

OptionZero, we can continue in here.

Like I said earlier, copyrights only protect text, images, sounds, and maybe colours on the Web page.

If you don't lift their pictures and if you don't plagerise then you're okay.

Even if you have trade secrets you can't really show infringement. The only thing you can show is theft, like someone physically broke into your office or computer and physically remove the material. If someone independently invents the same thing then you're SOL.

You need (registered) trademarks and patents in order to have valid infringement claims.


The general rule of thumb for trademark infringement is consumer confusion. Keep in mind that trademarks identify the source, NOT the product like most people think.

For example, "ipod" refers to Apple Corporation, not the actual music player. "ipod" is the registered mark and "music player" is the generic term. "ipod music player" refers to music players sold by Apple.

Sidenote, Apple can actually sell anything with the "ipod" mark it wants because it owns the mark (if the scope of the registration is amended appropriately of course).


When I sell my own "ipod", and Apple sues me for infringement, the legal test becomes whether an average, reasonable, prudent consumer would think that my "ipod" came from Apple.

Does my marketing cause the consumer to think that I represent Apple?

If yes, then I infringe. If no, then I don't infringe.


In some cases the word becomes so generic that there is no infringement even if you use the trademark. The trademark becomes diluted.

Examples: zerox, kleenex, band-aid, etc.


I sell bodykit called "XYZ". Company ABC sells bodykit called "XYZ". This is a trademark question, especially since ABC does not own the trademark "XYZ"

Would a typical consumer think that I represent company ABC?


In most of the replica products, you see that people jump in and say that it's not right to copy. They clearly recognise that I don't represent ABC. This is prima facie evidence that there is no consumer confusion. So there is no trademark infringement.

[g6civcx]

A little bit more. If you draft your briefs or present oral arguments, I recommend you use generic terminology to describe the manufacturer.

For example, instead of saying: "The defendant removed 3 ipods from the kiosk"

I recommend you say: "The defendant removed 3 music players manufactured by Apple, Corp. from the kiosk".

If you watch a lot of experienced trial attorneys this is the lingo that they use. I've also seen they say things like "Ford Taurus car". Before I learned, I thought they were stupid for being redudant. How stupid can they be? A Taurus is clearly a car, but now I know that's the correct way to describe a trademark.


The reason is when the brief or transcript goes on appeal, the "ipod" trademark can change. Apple can decide to get out of the mp3 player market and use the "ipod" brand to sell cars, for example.

The defense can argue that the defendant could not physically remove 3 cars by himself, and if the judges aren't sharp, they'll buy his argument.

By that time you probably won't be on the case any more. It would be stupid to lose on a technicality like that but it can and does happen.

[wh0aitznic0]

I'll drop money on quality parts for stuff that keeps me safe and I know I won't regret in the long run if it breaks. For example, my suspension. Do you really want to risk putting your car in a ditch because you'd rather spend $140 than $200 on a RUCA? I wouldn't think so. I spent the money on littering my suspension with PBM and SPL components for that reason.

Aero, on the other hand, is aero. You, me and god know that you'll scrape it. How good will your $2000 investment to bring authentic everything BN-Sports into the country when you rip a chunk of it off on a road reflector? There is the issue with fitment but NOTHING will fit like OEM other than OEM. There's an exception to that, though. The OEM Kouki 180sx lip.

Wheels are the most subjective part of a car. All I know is that fake wheels work well enough to use but I myself would rather stand out from the crowd and have real rare wheels that nobody around has.

[victorw210]

i use a mix of real and knockoff parts i love my stances and my nardi wheel, i also love my xxr wheels because theyre cheap and look good and they are not blatant rip offs of a well known wheel as far as i know(xxr 522), i have an ebay exhaust that fits like shit but my roomate has 1 that fits good so its hit or miss. i hace the circuit sports rucas and wish i would have spent the extra money on pbm , i also have the circuit sports tie rod ends and subframe spacers and couldnt be happier

[ThatGuy]

Allow me to throw this wrench in to the gears for a minute.

Zilvia.net is a Private Owned Forum. We get the opportunity to make our own Rules and Guidelines that must be followed. It states directly in the Vendor Assistance that we will not allow items to be sold by our vendors that are "replicas/variants/copies/knockoffs/whatever" using the same name as the established company they are duplicating.

So, that throws the legal issues in a bind.

Just like your Right to Free Speech is waved when you post here. You do not have the ability to post whatever you want to post, you must abide by our rules.

It doesn't matter how much you want to justify this underhanded behavior (which it is underhanded whether you want to admit it or not) if it violates OUR RULES, then it will be handled.





Now, please continue beating your heads against the keyboard on each side of the argument.

[g6civcx]

Zilvia.net is a Private Owned Forum. We get the opportunity to make our own Rules and Guidelines that must be followed. It states directly in the Vendor Assistance that we will not allow items to be sold by our vendors that are "replicas/variants/copies/knockoffs/whatever" using the same name as the established company they are duplicating.

So, that throws the legal issues in a bind.

Just like your Right to Free Speech is waved when you post here. You do not have the ability to post whatever you want to post, you must abide by our rules.

It doesn't matter how much you want to justify this underhanded behavior (which it is underhanded whether you want to admit it or not) if it violates OUR RULES, then it will be handled.

What is the legal issues being bound?

I agree with your rights to moderate the privately owned forums as you see fit. This is private property and you can do whatever you want. There is no expectation of fair treatment or freedom of speech. The moderators/admistrators have final authority in editing/deleting any subject matter.

I totally agree with this and this is your right to do as you see fit.


Here comes the question. Let's say for whatever reason a mod decides to ban user X. That's within the mod's rights.

The mod then makes a post saying "X = convicted child molester" in the publicly viewable forums. When a member asks to see the judge's decision convicting X of molesting children, the mod responds by saying that this is a private forum and the mods can do whatever they want. They don't need to post any evidence of the conviction.


Clearly, none of us gets to decide if someone is a child molester. At best, we can accuse them of being a child molester. Only a judge/jury can convict a person of being a child molester.

Let's say that X isn't actually a convicted child molester, but the school where X works happens to Google his name one day and finds the comment. X loses his job. His wife leaves him. The entire neighbourhood gets together and stones him to death.


Do you see any problem with this? Free speech allows the mod to post whatever he wants, but free speech stops at defamation, libel, slander, etc. What do you think?

[DALAZ_68]

Here comes the question. Let's say for whatever reason a mod decides to ban user X. That's within the mod's rights.

The mod then makes a post saying "X = convicted child molester" in the publicly viewable forums. When a member asks to see the judge's decision convicting X of molesting children, the mod responds by saying that this is a private forum and the mods can do whatever they want. They don't need to post any evidence of the conviction.


Clearly, none of us gets to decide if someone is a child molester. At best, we can accuse them of being a child molester. Only a judge/jury can convict a person of being a child molester.

Let's say that X isn't actually a convicted child molester, but the school where X works happens to Google his name one day and finds the comment. X loses his job. His wife leaves him. The entire neighbourhood gets together and stones him to death.


Do you see any problem with this? Free speech allows the mod to post whatever he wants, but free speech stops at defamation, libel, slander, etc. What do you think?

if a judge and jury declared him to be a child molester and we have evidence of X being said user...it would be posted...usually when it comes to those situations of wondering why someone got pinked or banned etc, the typical group that isconstantly online...(sometimes even mods) will not mind sending a PM and showing you...

but who gives a flying fuck about a child molester who has his life screwed up over revealed info of his past...i certainly dont...doubt anyone here with a kid in there life would either...

you sound like you feel some pity for said type of person...why!? its not slander if its true...

i always say, its not talking shit, if what there sayin is true...period...


and i thought we were talking about parts...not child molesters!?

[ThatGuy]

This is not a case of slander or child molestation or any other crime you are trying to twist into the conversation.

If I tell you that you are not allowed in my home if you chose to smoke, and you make the conscience decision to spark up while you sit on my couch, guess what? I'm throwing your ass out of my house.

There is no "crime" committed. No conviction needed.

It is a lot more cut and dry then you are attempting to make it.

[ronmcdon]

Besides, I HIGHLY doubt a company inspecting one's credential would browse Zilvia for it.
(and if they do, you'd probably be better not working with them anyways)

Getting banned and/or discredited here isn't remotely going to ruin anyone's life.
Sure there are exceptions, but those are few & far between.

[Choku_Dorian]

in general, knockoffs piss me off. but in some cases they can be ok and in others they aren't.

knockoff ok:
-you just wanna build a fun track car for cheap, but don't act like it's the shit
-you've got a family to support on marginal income, but don't want to have to completely give up your passion for modding your car
-you broke a part and need a temporary fix
-aero for a drift car

knockoff not ok:
-your car cost over $12k
-you can afford to buy non-knockoff parts
-you want to make your car a "badass drift car"
-anything that comes under stress

this. all of it. yes.

[fckillerbee]

i am the budget drifter....lol

I agree with deolio.

[Walperstyle]

Intercoolers are good

everything else is bad

Its still probably cheaper to know a few welders.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Here are my feelings about knockoffs:

Knockoff wheels are garbage. A cast copy of a forged wheel isn't going to be as strong or as light. An aluminum copy of a magnesium wheel isn't going to be as light.

Wheel designs are a dime a dozen, and the vast majority of them are hideous. It's not the look that's the problem as much as the development required to make a strong, light wheel like the CE28N or RE30. Go ahead and knock off my CE28Ns all you want, but my wheels, my real wheels, are lighter and stronger than yours.

Knockoff arms are garbage. How many factories in China have drifters as development drivers, and how many of those drifters drive their cars daily? Crap rod ends and iffy steel does not a reliable and properly-engineered car part make.

Knockoff coilovers are garbage, but perfect for the mental defectives pretending to be hellaflush all-stars; most of the people running knockoffs don't know how cars are supposed to ride.

I would continue but the fakers will always fake.

[soreballz]

Intercoolers are good

Ever looked at the INSIDE of the piping of a knock-off/China intercooler? Slag everywhere, and no smooth beads, just big nasty rings of shitty welding.
Sure, the outside looks good, but when the poor welding creates restriction, and the chance of shooting little chunks of metal into your engine... Well, that's not really cool.

But like you said, it's good to know people that are good at welding. Pick up a super cheap IC, grind out all the welds, smooth everything out, and have a competent welder put it back together... The end result is a decent IC for a low price.

[nevertheless]

What about knock offs on a gas saver/DD?

[g6civcx]

This is not a case of slander or child molestation or any other crime you are trying to twist into the conversation.

If I tell you that you are not allowed in my home if you chose to smoke, and you make the conscience decision to spark up while you sit on my couch, guess what? I'm throwing your ass out of my house.

There is no "crime" committed. No conviction needed.

It is a lot more cut and dry then you are attempting to make it.

You're talking about the premie forum. Because it's private, you can do whatever you want in there.

The rest of the forum is restricted to post but open to the public for viewing.

How do you feel now?


Plus you still think I'm protecting knockoff companies or something. I already told you that I am hader than infringers than anybody on this forum.

If you are ever in the Washington, D.C. area you have an open invitation to come to my office for a seminar on what intellectual property is and how companies can protect themselves. Lunch will be on me :)

[soreballz]

^Dude, seriously, shut the fuck up. Take your ugly car and your boner for knockoffs and go troll elsewhere.

[ThatGuy]

You're talking about the premie forum. Because it's private, you can do whatever you want in there.

The rest of the forum is restricted to post but open to the public for viewing.

How do you feel now?


Plus you still think I'm protecting knockoff companies or something. I already told you that I am hader than infringers than anybody on this forum.

If you are ever in the Washington, D.C. area you have an open invitation to come to my office for a seminar on what intellectual property is and how companies can protect themselves. Lunch will be on me :)

No, I am talking about Zilvia.net.

Not any one section, the forum in it's entirety.

I feel fine, though I am growing tired of attempting to explain the same point to you in various fashions.

While this forum may be open to the public for registration and reading, it is still a privately owned and operated forum. In such, it has Rules and Guidelines that must be followed by anyone wishing to utilize it. For all of our members, this includes such restrictions as no freedom of speech, as we do not allow derogatory slurs to be used, and punish those who do. For our advertisers, this means not misrepresenting your products, and that you must divulge that your are selling fake/variant/replica/KNOCK OFF parts vice the actual parts.

As for your offer, there is no such thing as a free lunch, but thanks.

Now, it seemed that you started this Thread to see why people disliked Knock-off parts, when in actuality, all you wanted to do was stir up an argument in an attempt to flex your "legal prowess" that no one truly cares to listen to. This is apparent by the responses you have received to your arguments.

I am now officially finished attempting to explain Zilvia's official stance on the matter of knock-offs and our vendors. This thread can stay open, but if you wish to discuss it further, then feel free to speak to an Admin in PM.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

it breaks down like this.

Real shit> OEM> Fake Shit.

that is all

[irax]

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/tldr.jpg
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/this_thread_again.jpg
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/topic_expert.jpg
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/troll_thread3.jpg
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/this_thread.gif
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/thread_does_not_deliver.jpg
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/time_to_stop_posting.jpg
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/trolling.png

srsly guiz..... this thread... again? it should of been locked or deleted right after it opened.

We all know Zilvia.net's official stance on knock offs.
we all know that more than 60% (made up number) of us don't give a shit (probably more like 80%)
knock offs will keep coming,
people will still rock legit stuff...
i dgaf... I got legit parts where it matters and fakes where it doesn't
I support local industry more than over seas legit stuff
I support innovators over imitators
I'll buy fakes that fit good and let people guess
I'll not complain about legit stuff that doesn't fit exactly because all bodykits need work to fit properly
I know zilvia isn't about drifting, but drifters are about looking cool.. to quote famous words from an epic event "Drifters are the biggest bunch of posers, they just want to be seen looking cool, what happened to having fun!?"
You care that I have knock offs on my car? thats cool, I'm too busy having fun! You can go on and quote legislature or morality issues like it will really make a difference. But the bottom line is that knock offs will either make legit innovators work harder and make newer and better shit, or destroy them since they will not ebb and flow with the market.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs535.ash1/31378_1429619494223_1044908791_1250659_4865851_n.j pg

[irax]

ps: if you know where I can get that hoody in adult sizes that would be great.

[Om1kron]

ban the guy in my sig from zilvia aka thread posted. And make it a rule not to bring up any legal matters that do not concern YOU in any way or try to stir shit up between vendors selling real and fake shit (moraly since it doesn't have a united states registered trademark personally signed by president obama and the state council on every part.)

violating such will get you pinked or removed from the site in it's entirety.

problem solved.

[ronmcdon]

now you guys are bieng childish

[SlideWell]

if someone is going to buy knockoff shit, thats their own business, but holy fuck, people need to stop talking about they can get this, or they have that without saying its a knock off. i.e.
"i can get a uras kit for $350"
"you mean a KNOCK-OFF kit"
"yeah, same shit"
"no it isnt, GTFO"

[[email protected]]

2. If a company doesn't want to go through the process and sells the product any way, the Founding Fathers considers this to be that the company doesn't care about their product. It only costs $100 to register your invention and anyone can do it. You don't need a legal background.

So if they don't want to pay $100 to protect their own invention from being copied, why should we care?

3. Selling your product without going through the process is the same as intentionally leaving your money on public property and not claiming your money. Anyone can take the money and it's not considered theft because you never claimed it. Whose fault is it that you lost money?

I am not sure where the $100 figure comes from, the last time I filed for a patent, the patent filing fee alone was over $1k. I engaged a law firm to file the patent, and for a relatively simple patent everything cost around $10k. I might have been able to write the patent myself (although I wouldn't say it is as simple as "anyone can do it"), but it is one thing to get a patent, but a different thing to defend it in court, and I wanted a patent that was legally "air tight". The last thing I want is to write my own patent filing and find that it can be easily gotten around because of a poor choice in wording...

Now if you spend $10k, you will have a really hard time just trying to get to break even on a product in this market. If you try to re-coup the cost in, say, 100 sets of the product, you are tacking on $100 per set. That's alot, considering the prices of parts in this market. And my experience is if you sell 100 sets of a product, that's a pretty good selling product for this market.

But the biggest problem is this, the current wait time for a patent filing to be processed is 5-8 years:

How long does it take for the Patent Office to make a decision? (http://www.inventionstatistics.com/Patent_Approval_Time.html)

Where would this market be in 5-8 years? Who could afford to wait? It is easy to blame companies for not protecting their own intellectual property, but the truth is the system simply doesn't work -- patents are too costly and take too long.

[GenPac]

Interesting points. Mixing reality in a thread of theory. thanks, Kuah.

[ranger240]

240sx = knock off sports car

that doesn't necessarily make it bad, it just needs work to get right. like alot of knock off stuff requiring better spherical bearings/whatever

now some other knock off sports cars, like hyundai tiberons and stuff... those are equivalent to the real crappy ebay knock off parts out there that are just worthless and never worth the effort.

[irax]

I am not sure where the $100 figure comes from, the last time I filed for a patent, the patent filing fee alone was over $1k. I engaged a law firm to file the patent, and for a relatively simple patent everything cost around $10k.

Now if you spend $10k, you will have a really hard time just trying to get to break even on a product in this market. If you try to re-coup the cost in, say, 100 sets of the product, you are tacking on $100 per set. That's alot, considering the prices of parts in this market. And my experience is if you sell 100 sets of a product, that's a pretty good selling product for this market.

But the biggest problem is this, the current wait time for a patent filing to be processed is 5-8 years:

How long does it take for the Patent Office to make a decision? (http://www.inventionstatistics.com/Patent_Approval_Time.html)

Where would this market be in 5-8 years? Who could afford to wait? It is easy to blame companies for not protecting their own intellectual property, but the truth is the system simply doesn't work -- patents are too costly and take too long.

now can we lock this thread?
/thread

[n240sxfnatic]

I love me some knock-off Rice Chex

[40cal]

i buy knock off cereal all the time.... hahaha
wtf is this all about!??!?!?

buy what you can afford.
live within your means, be realistic
research all the items you buy before you buy them!

knock off or not we are all in it to have fun be cautious with your money.
damn 4 pages just for this?

[NismoSilvia270R]

love knockoffs. they make dreams come true for the average person.

i want a hemicuda. no way in hell im going to pay 6 digits for one.

clone it. i get my hemicuda without breaking the bank.

its only when you get lazy and the difference quality shows through your work.

or someone cares enough to check the numbers/tags/labels. whats it to you?

Dont tread on my dreams.

[lainardisboss]

ebay turbo kits need to be re-welded but i kinda love everything!

[speedgod^s13]

It cracks me up, how people get so serious, when this topic comes up. This is my view: It's your car, and your money. No one has the right to tell you what to buy. If you can afford the real deal, good. If not, that's ok too. What matters, is that you are happy with your purchase. Fuck what everyone else says. Unless they are buying the parts for you, they have no say. But, if you are running knock off parts, don't you EVER try to pass them off as real. Have some balls, and be straight up. To end this, there will NEVER be an end to this arguement. Just like people will never agree on religion, politics, environment, etc. That's life.

[BURSTspeed]

This thread was a good read, good debates. Wait or is this a knockoff read with knockoff debates. It doesn't matter cuz I like it. And for what I used it for(which was reading) it was exactly the same as any other thread. But BETTER! lolwut
And OP(g6civcx) is my hero.

[josephin510]

I used to live for knock off parts until. My rota rims cracked from the center of the rim outwards then exploded. My Megan Coilovers were so shit made I hit a minor pot hole and it broke the strut. Megan Sr manifold broke smooth off at the flange. EBay turbo literally blew apart at 20psi of boost. Kragen oil gauge made me buy two new oil pumps and a set of brand new oil squirters . Egay rucas snapped while on my way to work. Knock s13 coupe tails had to be drained of water daily. I could keep going..... PM ME but just buy quality parts don't be a idiot like me. Save time headaches money tears.

[ericcastro]

Knock off Definition

A counterfeit is an imitation, usually one that is made with the intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. Counterfeit products are often produced with the intent to take advantage of the established worth of the imitated product.







I dont know why you guys argue this. If you buy a gucci purse for $15 on the boardwalk, thats a knock off.
I get a little confused when everyone argues how this company copied that company.
But unless they were established the year the coil over was invented, then they themselves are a knock off.

Under your "no knock off" policies,

Is Maaco knock off?
Western Family?
Axe deoderent?


Just wondering how far you guys all take this miss guided argument?



Maybe you should start saying, "Cheap parts" instead of "knock off".

BTW, I drive the shit out of my car, street and track, and despite some really gnarly dirt drops, front and rear, my godspeed suspension is perfect.
Can't say the same for all the quality arms i saw break last month while i kept going.

[josephin510]

Knock off Definition

A counterfeit is an imitation, usually one that is made with the intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. Counterfeit products are often produced with the intent to take advantage of the established worth of the imitated product.







I dont know why you guys argue this. If you buy a gucci purse for $15 on the boardwalk, thats a knock off.
I get a little confused when everyone argues how this company copied that company.
But unless they were established the year the coil over was invented, then they themselves are a knock off.

Under your "no knock off" policies,

Is Maaco knock off?
Western Family?
Axe deoderent?


Just wondering how far you guys all take this miss guided argument?



Maybe you should start saying, "Cheap parts" instead of "knock off".

BTW, I drive the shit out of my car, street and track, and despite some really gnarly dirt drops, front and rear, my godspeed suspension is perfect.
Can't say the same for all the quality arms i saw break last month while i kept going.
You sir are correct I believe we all mean cheap/low quality parts.

[ericcastro]

I think people should start saying cheap parts.

And on that note, how many people are currently against the cheap parts and are tracking their cars once a month or more?
I do, so I buy cheaper parts that work. No reason to buy a Dmax carbon fiber body kit for $2000 when a $300 genaric one will work just as good.

I just dont get where the line is then??
Everything has a name on it.
and everything is a copy of existing technology that was already there.

Maybe thats why you dont hear the professional level drifters talking about "no knock offs", cause they dont give a shit and run them on their personal cars all the time.

[[email protected]]

I just dont get where the line is then??
Everything has a name on it.
and everything is a copy of existing technology that was already there.


A copy is something that is physically/dimensionally identical (to manufacturing variances) to the original part.

Counterfeit is to pass off a copy as an original.

We are not talking about copying a concept here. A Gucci handbag is not a copy of handbags in general, a Nissan GT-R is not a copy of a Ford Model-T, and our suspension arms are not a copy of Nissan's factory arms. Our arms look physically quite different from, say, Cusco's arms or Nissan arms. Just because they serve the same function does not mean they are copies of each other. 10 different companies can work on developing 10 products that serve the same function, and if they are all developed independently, all 10 products wouldn't be identical.

Copying is a quite simple line really, it is taking an existing product, and making something physically the same. It is like making a copy of a movie DVD (which is protected by copyright laws, which unfortunately does not apply to physical/functional products).

[redline racer510]

The way I see it, if a product works use it if not find an alternative. Money really has nothing to do with it. I am probably going to get someone that's gonna say "what about the money spent on R&D" what about it? The last thing these company(greddy,hks,arc,cusco,apexi,etc) thinks about is customer satisfaction. Most of these companies re-badge products from a general manufacture or do slight modifications and sell them at a ridiculous price. I think real R&D is done by the customer by figuring out what works best for them without taking other peoples BS. Not saying these companies are bad(hell I rock some of there parts) just look at them as if they had no brand name, and look at the quality,fitment etc.

[scoobyjoe]

I'm surprise Wake BHR is not on this thread. Lol

[Walperstyle]

Knockoff clothing and fashion. Yes, because it IS the same thing in most cases. Why pay more for some stupid name if its the same thing.

If its actually made somewhere else, with the wrong material, then yeah its can be bad.

[daryl337]

I'm surprise Wake BHR is not on this thread. Lol

OH SHI- you are right.


INCOMING WAKE in 5.... 4..... 3....

[truckmtrS13]

xxr wheels with the big chrome lip....
http://login.eznettools.net/adaptivestrategies/XXR_Wheels_006_two-piece.jpg
just figured out that the lip is glued on... I bet its the same for the 526's
lol never thought about getting any but wow thats weak

[Mikey213]

If a "knock off" is cheaper better and looks the same I'd buy the damn thing. Unfortunatley competition now a days just requires the opposite.

[Evan8683]

You get what you pay for. It's silly to believe that a company can create a copy of a genuine product, sell it for half the price, and it be up to par as far as materials or the contruction process is considered. Here's some fake WEDS and real WEDS :)

YouTube - ‪Dangerous imitation wheel !!‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJeFB6SRslk&feature=player_embedded)

[word sux]

cheap parts suck


how is there even an arguement

[Gizmo_S13]

I got a knockoff hub. Man... FML...

It's like it was stated. If the part works then use it. Sometimes cheap parts end up being better than the "real" brands. I used to hear nothing but bad things about Megan now all I hear is, "yeah! Their coilovers are awesome!" same thing goes to Godspeed but that's the way it is. I went to a drift even and saw a Tomei powered SR20 with a Godspeed Intercooler. Shit! If he has that it must work right? I'm a budget kind of guy I don't blow all my money on parts and from time to time I will drop bills for name brand parts but nowadays I'm mostly fabricating my own stuff. You can call it a knockoff cause I just look up the part I want and try to copy theirs as well HAHAHAHA

[Robb]

Expensive and brand name doesn't always mean quality. Hell, Apple makes six times as much as HP when selling just one computer.

[yabeet]

Hate knockoffs. Knock off buyers are simply putting innovative companies out of business.

If you buy knockoff parts:

Fuck you.

[S13Boosts]

Who gives a fuck..we all know no one aint ballin on this forum LOL

[sidewaysil80]

double post

[sidewaysil80]

Hate knockoffs. Knock off buyers are simply putting innovative companies out of business.

If you buy knockoff parts:

Fuck you.

ok well selling name brand parts used is hurting them just as bad if not more. if someone can't afford to buy a brand name part and are not going to save up for god knows how long it takes for an overpriced exhaust (arc)...they have two choices, buy it used or buy a knock off. EITHER WAY, the money was never going to go to the original company.

and one more thing...these companies are doing it to themselves...look at the hks filter and compare it to the greddy one...same thing, tomei fpr and the sard one...same thing, apexi makes a v-afc or w/e it's called and greddy comes out a version of the same thing, or my favorite..dmax lighting products, they buy them from junyan and literally triple the price, you can go on ebay and get the EXACT SAME ITEM FROM JUNYAN for a 1/3 of the cost. knock off's are doing the exact same thing just introducing a product at a lower cost that MIGHT not have the same quality but hense it's cheaper.

fyi on my last track car i rocked alot of knock off parts....the new project is an hpde/street car and i'm not using any. it just depends what you want to spend your money on.

[irax]

xxr wheels with the big chrome lip....
http://login.eznettools.net/adaptivestrategies/XXR_Wheels_006_two-piece.jpg
just figured out that the lip is glued on... I bet its the same for the 526's
lol never thought about getting any but wow thats weak

actually, if you think about it is pretty ingenious, if you damage the lip you can take it off and replace it cheaper than you would pay to have a wheel fixed and refinished. but hthen at the price xxr wheels are, its probably just cheaper to buy another wheel to begin with.

and no its not the same for 526 but maybe the 502

[irax]

Knock off Definition

A counterfeit is an imitation, usually one that is made with the intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. Counterfeit products are often produced with the intent to take advantage of the established worth of the imitated product.

Maybe you should start saying, "Cheap parts" instead of "knock off".


Making a wheel that looks exactly the same as another wheel for example, to the uninitiated, is what knock of companies want to go after. But more so they thrive on making a copycat part and undercutting the 'authentic' part. Which is a great business tactic especially when the big names are not even going to try to compete. Instead they bring back the wheels they haven't made in such a log time like Enkei has. Rota already makes copies of those wheels without missing a beat.

But at the same time, if Enkei lowers production cost, and makes a lower quality of wheel, Rota would do the same. It would be an endless battle on dropping prices until one company just can't do it any further. And then in the end all we are left with would be cheaply made wheels that are now overpriced.


My favorite Enkei wheel the NTK03
http://www.rotawheels.com/images/products/gk-r_1.jpg

or the Rota GK-R
http://lsdmotorsports.com/merchant2/graphics/00000001/enkei_nt03m_silver_350x350.jpg

wait... which one is which?

[soreballz]

^Why in the world does that rim have two valve stems?

[irax]

^Why in the world does that rim have two valve stems?

because racecar

[Silvette]

I hate HATE hateeeeeeeee knockoffs, see here; http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/393535-what-happens-when-you-buy-fake-wheels-varrstoen.html

[vas570sx]

While I agree that there is nothing sexier than a set of real wheels, I cannot justify spending $2-$3k for wheels when I'm just gonna smash the car up at the track.

[Touge Noob S13]

While I agree that there is nothing sexier than a set of real wheels, I cannot justify spending $2-$3k for wheels when I'm just gonna smash the car up at the track.
?
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Q7sffQte4xs/TXmNsMbMvnI/AAAAAAAAA1g/4crD60OVzYs/s1600/5485437172e867d33771z.jpg

[vas570sx]

?
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Q7sffQte4xs/TXmNsMbMvnI/AAAAAAAAA1g/4crD60OVzYs/s1600/5485437172e867d33771z.jpg

let me clarify:

while looking good on the track, when that dude breaks a wheel, he's out 6-700 bucks.

if i were to bend/brake one, im out 100 + shipping..

like i said, i know it looks good, and i wish i had that kind of money to throw away, however, i feel like even if i did have the money, i wouldnt buy crazy wheels for a drift car.

for a daily? yes

for drifting? no

[RB180sxChris]

I had megan coils on my S14.

They sucked asshole.

Tons of people on here will recommend them...because they don't know any better.

Poor people buy poopy parts.



lmao this is true!!!!

[word sux]

my buddy picked up an s13 the other day that came with brand new in the box cs sport lca's and megan outter tie rods


I actually started cracking up when I saw them. The welds on teh cs sport lca's are a fucking joke there was even a hole in the weld were a gas bubble was.. the megan racing pillow balls are a joke the "pillow balls" look like they were designed by a drunk red neck no engineering at all. they just took a cast ring put the pillow ball in then pressed in a piece of steel on both sides to hold it in place. you could barely move it with your hand no wonder they fall apart very unsafe.

We held the outters side by side with my spl parts outters and had a good laugh

[word sux]

oh and the car came with god speed coils that were installed in the spring and the fronts are already blown out

[reds13se]

Very interesting topic knowing zilvia, but i may as well add my $0.02

I for one have no problem with knock off parts because it provides a cheaper alternative to parts i may need at some point in time rather than paying an unjustifiable amount of money to get about the same product. These knockoff products also push the original manufacturer(name brand) to come up with better and more innovative parts to stand out from being meshed in with all the knock offs. That being said, There is a there is obviously a scale as to how these parts will compare against one another as far as quality. This is where buyer be ware comes in to play. Many of the name brand products go through much r&d during the production stage, some knockoff brands may do the same, however some may not. Therefore it is completely up to the buyer to do his/her own "r&d" if you will to find out which knock off brand can be trusted to have comparability in durability and workmanship while being offered at a lower price.

**For those of you who lack reading skills or have a short attention span**

In summation(cliff notes), name brands maybe the best way to go about something in most cases, however there are usually cheaper products with comparable, if not just as much reliability aimed for those on a budget who aren't in a big dick contest with others.

[pandaman415]

I don't mind them.

[gerson408]

I think people should start saying cheap parts.

And on that note, how many people are currently against the cheap parts and are tracking their cars once a month or more?
I do, so I buy cheaper parts that work. No reason to buy a Dmax carbon fiber body kit for $2000 when a $300 genaric one will work just as good.

I just dont get where the line is then??
Everything has a name on it.
and everything is a copy of existing technology that was already there.

Maybe thats why you dont hear the professional level drifters talking about "no knock offs", cause they dont give a shit and run them on their personal cars all the time.


this guy speaks the truth.

[h2v7]

can someone post

the best looking / cheapest 4lug wheel to buy!?

[word sux]

just went to check out a dudes build and he has had to replace all his megan arms and tie rod ends after 500 miles they all have tons of play in them already.


a friend just had one of the shocks on his godspeed coils actually brake. the shaft snapped

[usdm180sx]

I can't do knock offs it's not in my blood

[bb4_96]

I just finished cutting and rewelding a no-name ebay brand t3/t4 downpipe to fit. I checked the listing on ebay to see what manifold it's supposed to fit... It just says it has good fitment. Same with the megan ic piping... fucking terrible fitment. At least they were deals on stainless and aluminum stock since they weren't plated/chromed. Pisses me off that i had to mod shit i just bought though.

[namawon]

Im running 4x4 status on my hatch because id rather save up and drive with a car that looks like a rc car than, buy low quality parts.

[Te37]

FUCK varstoens!

That is all.

If god would not have allowed me to have the nice tes that i have now, i can sure as hell tell you that i would have oem wheels on here...be it s14, 350z, 370z...etc wheels.

[blacksmith]

I just hate it when people complain about not having money for parts and then go with a low quality coil/wheel/part etc.. If you would just save for a few months you could afford nice wheels, nice coils, and nice things in general. Even on a low income.

[!Zar!]

let me clarify:

while looking good on the track, when that dude breaks a wheel, he's out 6-700 bucks.

if i were to bend/brake one, im out 100 + shipping..

like i said, i know it looks good, and i wish i had that kind of money to throw away, however, i feel like even if i did have the money, i wouldnt buy crazy wheels for a drift car.

for a daily? yes

for drifting? no

Wrong, if he damaged that wheel it would only cost about $150~ to fix.

So that argument goes out the window.

[Agamemnon]

Interesting article about Knock0offs and the people who buy them.
Are women who carry fake designer handbags big trouble? | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/05/are-women-who-carry-fake-designer-handbags-big-trouble/)
Dan Ariely, a Professor of Behavioral Economics at Duke University, is publishing a book entitled, “The Honest Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to Everyone—Including Ourselves.” In it, he reveals research he and his colleagues conducted that provides useful insights into the psychological forces which drive lying.

One of the more fascinating revelations is that women who carry fake Louis Vuitton or Tory Burch handbags or wear fake Cartier jewelry, are more likely to lie, cheat or steal than other women.

Could that really be the case? Could handing over $50 for a replica handbag that should really cost $500 or $1,000 really signal deeper moral failings? Doesn’t everyone lie sometimes?

Most of us, Ariely explains, do indeed lie, sometimes. But the research he presents includes the fact that those of us who are willing to wear our lies around our necks (e.g. fake Burberry scarves) or carry them on our arms (e.g. those fake designer bags) are especially untrustworthy.

When you think about it, that makes psychological sense. People who buy knock-offs are willing to lie on multiple levels.

First, they’re willing to cheat the companies who created the designer items—and hold the intellectual property related to them—out of money that’s legitimately due them. Because those companies not only came up with unique—sometimes iconic—designs, they invested in advertising and marketing that made their brands household names. They harnessed genuine creativity and employed lots of people to make that happen.

Second, they’re willing to lie to everyone who gets a glimpse of their fake handbags or necklaces or sunglasses and thinks that they have the style sense, or the money, to select and buy those items. They’re desperate enough for that facade of style—that mask of chic—to break the law to achieve it. And they know what they’re doing isn’t above-board. After all, the fraudulent goods they’re buying are often sold by shady street dealers or fly-by-night websites.

Third—and probably most toxic—they’re able to lie to themselves. Because they can almost forget that they’re perpetrating a bit of a scam whenever they head out with a handbag that fools people into believing they have something they don’t and are something they’re not. They have the ability to think of themselves as entirely upstanding, when they’re ripping off companies who have to report real earnings to real stockholders and make real profits—or really go out of business.

Seen this way, the folks who lie just a little by buying knock-offs sound a little less innocuous than they might, otherwise. Still, though, they aren’t Bernie Madoff—making off with billions and leaving investors bankrupt. They aren’t Clark Rockefeller—the fake Rockefeller who fooled everyone into thinking he was a member of the legendary family.

No, they aren’t. But they are very distant cousins—and there are a lot more of them, capable of doing lots of harm, when taken together. And that’s really the psychological and economic point Ariely is making: Madoff isn’t our real problem. It’s the rest of us. The millions willing to lie and cheat and steal a little add up to a bigger economic and social problem than the outliers who take duplicity to the next level.

So, next time you see the stitching on a Louis Vuitton bag and realize it doesn’t quite look like the real deal, it’s fair to conclude that the person carrying it isn’t quite the real deal, either—and act accordingly

[raz0rbladez909]

Interesting article about Knock0offs and the people who buy them.
Are women who carry fake designer handbags big trouble? | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/05/are-women-who-carry-fake-designer-handbags-big-trouble/)

:keke: I can't wait for the responses from this one lol

[irax]

wait... its faux news....

[ZX88]

so yeah dont buy isis turbo lines.....

[redline racer510]

If it works good I don't mind it being a knockoff and I wouldn't rock a legit set of wheels on my drift car even if I had the money to do so. When i see a car destroy a set of nice wheels it makes me cringe.

[Pinggg]

so yeah dont buy isis turbo lines.....

What happen to yours?

I haven't had a problem with mine..

[codyace]

so yeah dont buy isis turbo lines.....

While I never wood, why do you suggest not to? It's not like you can screw up pre crimpd lines *that bad*

[Corbic]

More reason to hate on knock-off buyers...

Dan Ariely, a Professor of Behavioral Economics at Duke University, is publishing a book entitled, “The Honest Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to Everyone—Including Ourselves.” In it, he reveals research he and his colleagues conducted that provides useful insights into the psychological forces which drive lying.

One of the more fascinating revelations is that women who carry fake Louis Vuitton or Tory Burch handbags or wear fake Cartier jewelry, are more likely to lie, cheat or steal than other women.

Could that really be the case? Could handing over $50 for a replica handbag that should really cost $500 or $1,000 really signal deeper moral failings? Doesn’t everyone lie sometimes?

Most of us, Ariely explains, do indeed lie, sometimes. But the research he presents includes the fact that those of us who are willing to wear our lies around our necks (e.g. fake Burberry scarves) or carry them on our arms (e.g. those fake designer bags) are especially untrustworthy.

When you think about it, that makes psychological sense. People who buy knock-offs are willing to lie on multiple levels.

First, they’re willing to cheat the companies who created the designer items—and hold the intellectual property related to them—out of money that’s legitimately due them. Because those companies not only came up with unique—sometimes iconic—designs, they invested in advertising and marketing that made their brands household names. They harnessed genuine creativity and employed lots of people to make that happen.

Second, they’re willing to lie to everyone who gets a glimpse of their fake handbags or necklaces or sunglasses and thinks that they have the style sense, or the money, to select and buy those items. They’re desperate enough for that facade of style—that mask of chic—to break the law to achieve it. And they know what they’re doing isn’t above-board. After all, the fraudulent goods they’re buying are often sold by shady street dealers or fly-by-night websites.

Third—and probably most toxic—they’re able to lie to themselves. Because they can almost forget that they’re perpetrating a bit of a scam whenever they head out with a handbag that fools people into believing they have something they don’t and are something they’re not. They have the ability to think of themselves as entirely upstanding, when they’re ripping off companies who have to report real earnings to real stockholders and make real profits—or really go out of business.

Seen this way, the folks who lie just a little by buying knock-offs sound a little less innocuous than they might, otherwise. Still, though, they aren’t Bernie Madoff—making off with billions and leaving investors bankrupt. They aren’t Clark Rockefeller—the fake Rockefeller who fooled everyone into thinking he was a member of the legendary family.

No, they aren’t. But they are very distant cousins—and there are a lot more of them, capable of doing lots of harm, when taken together. And that’s really the psychological and economic point Ariely is making: Madoff isn’t our real problem. It’s the rest of us. The millions willing to lie and cheat and steal a little add up to a bigger economic and social problem than the outliers who take duplicity to the next level.

So, next time you see the stitching on a Louis Vuitton bag and realize it doesn’t quite look like the real deal, it’s fair to conclude that the person carrying it isn’t quite the real deal, either—and act accordingly.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/05/are-women-who-carry-fake-designer-handbags-big-trouble/#ixzz1x0pZtrKL

[fliprayzin240sx]

WTF? Did you even read 8 posts above you???

[Scionide]

My take on knock offs is simple. If you are building a track rat s13 that you just want to be functional then they are fine. If you are wanting some different wheels for a daily, then by all means go cheap. I have had a cheap set of wheels on my tC for 4 years, everyone of them is bent curbed or beginning to show corrosion. I could care less about putting a set of XD9's on it, because daily. Now with that being said. A friend of mine just bought a Mk4 and said to me, "Im thinking about buying a CX Racing radiator for it." I had to refrain from hitting him. I guess my point is, if you are dealing with a high end build or a chassis worthy of spending rediculous amounts of money on, then by all means spend the money on the legit stuff, I know I will.

[deolio]

the way that people justify buying knockoffs is bullshit. just admit you're cheap.

i am cheap... some times.

[TougeLove]

the way that people justify buying knockoffs is bullshit. just admit you're cheap.

i am cheap... some times.

im cheap, but im also not stupid. a good investment is in suspension, engine, brakes, rims (to a certain degree).

a bad investment is spending 1,200 on a authentic vertex kit that may get smashed up. or 2,000 on a pair of volks that you run into the wall.

all these "fake" wheels people keep bringing up still have to pass JWL VIA standards. same as volk, work, etc. YES volk may go beyond the standard, but im pretty sure the standard is safe enough

[fliprayzin240sx]

im cheap, but im also not stupid. a good investment is in suspension, engine, brakes, rims (to a certain degree).

a bad investment is spending 1,200 on a authentic vertex kit that may get smashed up. or 2,000 on a pair of volks that you run into the wall.

all these "fake" wheels people keep bringing up still have to pass JWL VIA standards. same as volk, work, etc. YES volk may go beyond the standard, but im pretty sure the standard is safe enough

My take on your mentality is, dont hit the fucking wall or dont do tandems!!! You get ballsy enough, take the body kit off. I have my daily/hard park status wheels, then you have track wheels. I take my skirts and bumper off at the track, dont like having shredded tires destroying the fiberglass. Even if it happens, rebuilding fiberglass isnt all that hard.

[Corbic]

WTF? Did you even read 8 posts above you???

Nope, and not a single fuck given.

[deolio]

i just wonder how often people REALLY break wheels anyway. i know i've only broken one and that was a 926 4 years ago. bent a gramlight and a wedssport, but those were both repaired for less than a new 926 would have cost.

i have yet to run a body kit, but when i do, i plan on running it all the time. learn to do some fucking fiberglass and simple paint work. not that hard.

[[email protected]]

Lack of innovation and originality.

No Research and Development.

Morally wrong to copy. We are taught this from the time we begin learning; copying someone else's answers is cheating, and it's wrong.


My response will now fall upon deaf ears as people complain about the price of original parts, using such arguments as my "X-company" parts are just as good as "Name Brand" counterpart and I didn't have to pay for the name. Or, why should I spend money on quality parts for a car I only paid $1500 for, blah, blah, blah.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to post.

Sad that most don't want to listen but true that. Keeping up with the Jones's is by no means cheap. But how much pride can you take in something that is full of fake parts and no engineering in it? The worst is when people try and pass off their fakes as real parts.

[BossHogg]

The knock of wheels and body kit shit I can understand...IF you are a serious drifter. I wouldn't want to fuck up my shit either. But I would just have a shit load of crap drift wheels and maybe one baller set to cruise in. I like quality real shit....because its real. I just can't justify spending my hard earned cash for low quality shit products. That is just insulting yourself. I don't get the logic. Even as a teenager I never sold myself short. I think my parts list does a good job of proving that to.

The knock offs never look good either. That is the best part about buying the quality shit, performs AND looks good.

[[email protected]]

The knock of wheels and body kit shit I can understand...IF you are a serious drifter. I wouldn't want to fuck up my shit either. But I would just have a shit load of crap drift wheels and maybe one baller set to cruise in. I like quality real shit....because its real. I just can't justify spending my hard earned cash for low quality shit products. That is just insulting yourself. I don't get the logic. Even as a teenager I never sold myself short. I think my parts list does a good job of proving that to.

The knock offs never look good either. That is the best part about buying the quality shit, performs AND looks good.

I agree with you 100%!! Well put

[Otto347]

Ive owned volks, sterns, rotas and varrstoens. Who gives a fuck.

[mikerbike]

I wish I could afford some knockoffs. :-/

[Mofuhcka]

Half you guys saying fuck fake wheels end up buying knock off kits anyways. Leaves me so confused.

[BossHogg]

Ive owned volks, sterns, rotas and varrstoens. Who gives a fuck.

Obviously you don't lol. I would not own most the junk you just mentioned. Even volk doesn't look as quality as some of the other high end makers. Just my opinion. But there isn't a volk wheel out there that another company doesn't have something that looks better (as a product). Volk is just missing that extra something in my personal opinion. Something with their finishes. Just my personal opinion on wheels I have seen and own. I know they are quality but not my taste I guess. CCW falls into that category to.

[usdm180sx]

To this day I have never seen a TE37 break. Guys who rock them do everything on them. Time attack, drifting, all of the above. Someone post a pic of a broken TE37!

Anyone seen this yet?

http://jalopnik.com/5953859/this-guys-wheel-self+destructed-and-the-company-who-made-it-is-blaming-him

There's some really shady stuff going on in there.

[usdm180sx]

People who actually take pride in building an s-chassis car come to mind

[Otto347]

Even volk doesn't look as quality as some of the other high end makers.

Ah yes because looks is what makes a good wheel company. Well in my OPINION the te37 is the best looking wheel ever made. People will agree with me and people will disagree. Once again who gives a fuck...............

[Te37]

Are you talking about quality or looks? I have seen te37s brand new out of the box and I have seen ccw brand new our of the box and even Work vsxx's, and I still have to side with volk that there QUALITY is far superb past the others. You can just tell when you look at the edges of the metal, the paint and even how they were packaged.

[drift213]

lemme chime in. im 16 years old. none of the parts in my car are of my parents money, unless you consider insurance and gas money. and i mean none, 0, zip. I've been saving up for a long ass time just to buy a car, i found a 240sx and parts arent cheap. Guess what body kit i bought, vertex. Why? Because i earned the fucking money. Do i wish i didnt, yes because now my car needs other things fixed. Did i learn my lesson? no. because i love buying parts for my car. Only "knock off" i have, to my knowledge cause previous owner has wierd shit on this car thats being removed, is my megan headers. Those are coming off soon since i hate the fitment. I have stance, all battleversion, and some exhaust. My car needs lots of shit done so im getting a job, im going to save up and buy things once. not twice because i don't like wasting money. even if i can't drive my car around, i dont give a shit, as long as i know im letting her rest so i can afford quality parts that wont give me a worse headache later on.

knock offs are cheap for a reason.
Ok so if you don't work n supposing u don'tget money from parents how the fxxx you get money for the parts? I had my first s13 when I was 15 but i used to work in a shop

[towlie]

I can honestly say te37's are one of the best looking wheel ever designed. It's been around what, 15 years with no changes in its overall design? And look how many replicas have popped up. Xxr, rota, varstone, etc.

Ill buy a set brand new, one day :(

[sw20>>s14]

To this day I have never seen a TE37 break. Guys who rock them do everything on them. Time attack, drifting, all of the above. Someone post a pic of a broken TE37!

Anyone seen this yet?

This Guy's Wheel Self-Destructed And The Company Who Made It Is Blaming Him (http://jalopnik.com/5953859/this-guys-wheel-self+destructed-and-the-company-who-made-it-is-blaming-him)

There's some really shady stuff going on in there.

I'd have to side with COR on this one, you don't know the expertise of the painter. Especially with the assumption that the centers were powdercoated. Who knows what the temperatures were at during each step and if the painter reassembled them correctly to spec?

In terms of knockoffs, I view it as Americans and our dependency on instant gratification. Therefore, I equate people who buy knockoffs to masturbaters.

[Corbic]

I'd have to side with COR on this one, you don't know the expertise of the painter. Especially with the assumption that the centers were powdercoated. Who knows what the temperatures were at during each step and if the painter reassembled them correctly to spec?

In terms of knockoffs, I view it as Americans and our dependency on instant gratification. Therefore, I equate people who buy knockoffs to masturbaters.

Yes cuz there are no Knock-Offs in Japan...or porn for that matter.

[Drifting-pedobear]

this thread is retarded.

[Corbic]

this thread is retarded.

That is why it's in the Loud Noise section.

[The Dude]

It's better than having these discussions on every thread that pops up about Megan or Godspeed parts.

[usdm180sx]

I'd have to side with COR on this one, you don't know the expertise of the painter. Especially with the assumption that the centers were powdercoated. Who knows what the temperatures were at during each step and if the painter reassembled them correctly to spec?

In terms of knockoffs, I view it as Americans and our dependency on instant gratification. Therefore, I equate people who buy knockoffs to masturbaters.

Well, they changed their internet policy after the incident happened. I think they cheaped out on their R&D and got caught. Their marketing is misleading and their wheels are hella expensive so I think they're trying to make a killing. So they denied the claim because if they paid it when the flood gates open they will have to pay on ALL the shitty wheels they made and when that happens they will be shut down.

[The Dude]

I think people who pay a lot for their wheels just assume that they are high quality without actually checking to see if the production of the wheels are actually superior to some cheaper brands. Many people say that instead of buying "knockoffs" you should buy RPF1's/PF01's/etc, which are assumed to be of higher quality than Rota, for example, because they're more expensive. Most Rota's are actually low-pressure cast and the more expensive Enkei's are gravity cast, an inferior and cheaper process that can cause defects in the material.

Also, the term "knockoff" that is thrown around all the time is a misnomer because most of the wheels referred to as such clearly state what brand they are and they are easily identified as not being "real." Sure, they may look similar but who gives a shit? If you can tell instantly that it isn't a Volk TE37 from a picture then it isn't a fucking knockoff. Putting Volk stickers on your cheap wheels is pretty lame, though. Personally, I am indifferent to what anyone buys because it isn't my car. I'm not sure why some of you insult people for what they choose to buy when it doesn't affect you at all.

By the way, Rota has been a supplier of OEM wheels to many different car companies over decades. See their website: Our History - ROTA Wheels (http://www.rotawheels.com/hist.shtml)

[T chop]

SQUARE Wheels G33 Model - 17x9 +15 5x114.3 (Set of 4 Wheels) - Enjuku Racing Parts, LLC (http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/SQUARE-Wheels-G33-Model-%252d-17x9--%252b15-5x114.3-%28Set-of-4-Wheels%29.html)

:dead:

[Corbic]

SQUARE Wheels G33 Model - 17x9 +15 5x114.3 (Set of 4 Wheels) - Enjuku Racing Parts, LLC (http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/SQUARE-Wheels-G33-Model-%252d-17x9--%252b15-5x114.3-%28Set-of-4-Wheels%29.html)

:dead:


3rd party OEM's are nothing new and nothing shocking. They are also offering them in better offset then the originals.


No gripe here.

[towlie]

Yeah BMW reps and shit have been around for years. It's meh

[collegekid]

Interesting article about Knock0offs and the people who buy them.
Are women who carry fake designer handbags big trouble? | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/05/are-women-who-carry-fake-designer-handbags-big-trouble/)

Heard this on the radio when they were discussing how to find out if your girlfriend is cheating.

My opinion

The only things people really care about
-quality
-price, meaning if someone else can make the exact same thing better and cheaper, why not? As long as it is correctly advertised
-Correct advertising. Such as labeling Megan as HKS, we have a problem.
-function Does it get the job done? Goes hand in hand with quality.
-Financial capability. Is it really feasible for you to spend thousands on a set of Volks just to go drifting? Honestly, if money is such a big issue then I really think you need to focus on other things in your life. You need to make big boy moves in your life to increase cash flow. I know how cheap these wheels are being sold for.

Unless your career/job is involved with car parts/racing/drifting/cars in general , there is no event/car show/ hard park meet that is worth it to slap on some trash products on your car. Maybe that stuff will hold you over for an event or two. I understand if people are in a bind sometimes, but if you honestly believe that Megan,ISIS, any generic brand will rival OEM (including OEM aftermarket such as Nismo, Roush) or reputable Aftermarket parts, then I hope you break your parts and slam into a wall.

Another way to look at it is from a business aspect. Maybe Megan and ISIS are trying to grow and make better products. Maybe they are innovators and maybe they are here for a short time just to rape the scene, make a killing, and pack up and leave. No one will know unless you can read the minds of the owners. Only time will tell.

/RANT
I promise you that I will not be a guinea pig for these companies. If you are in a tough spot in life and choose to buy from them, its all good. I can still sleep at night. I'll just type RIP when your friend posts that you died in a car crash because your ebay bucket seat and harness threw you out the fucking car.


If you really have a love for cars and the sport, then do something major with your life to accommodate it. I spent 2.5 years studying biology and started hating it. Now I'm in mechanical engineering. I'm not saying you should all start becoming mechanics, I'm just reiterating that maybe you need to find a better job than working at WalMart.

[cchondro]

Heard this on the radio when they were discussing how to find out if your girlfriend is cheating.

My opinion

The only things people really care about
-quality
-price, meaning if someone else can make the exact same thing better and cheaper, why not? As long as it is correctly advertised
-Correct advertising. Such as labeling Megan as HKS, we have a problem.
-function Does it get the job done? Goes hand in hand with quality.
-Financial capability. Is it really feasible for you to spend thousands on a set of Volks just to go drifting? Honestly, if money is such a big issue then I really think you need to focus on other things in your life. You need to make big boy moves in your life to increase cash flow. I know how cheap these wheels are being sold for.

Unless your career/job is involved with car parts/racing/drifting/cars in general , there is no event/car show/ hard park meet that is worth it to slap on some trash products on your car. Maybe that stuff will hold you over for an event or two. I understand if people are in a bind sometimes, but if you honestly believe that Megan,ISIS, any generic brand will rival OEM (including OEM aftermarket such as Nismo, Roush) or reputable Aftermarket parts, then I hope you break your parts and slam into a wall.

Another way to look at it is from a business aspect. Maybe Megan and ISIS are trying to grow and make better products. Maybe they are innovators and maybe they are here for a short time just to rape the scene, make a killing, and pack up and leave. No one will know unless you can read the minds of the owners. Only time will tell.

/RANT
I promise you that I will not be a guinea pig for these companies. If you are in a tough spot in life and choose to buy from them, its all good. I can still sleep at night. I'll just type RIP when your friend posts that you died in a car crash because your ebay bucket seat and harness threw you out the fucking car.


If you really have a love for cars and the sport, then do something major with your life to accommodate it. I spent 2.5 years studying biology and started hating it. Now I'm in mechanical engineering. I'm not saying you should all start becoming mechanics, I'm just reiterating that maybe you need to find a better job than working at WalMart.

I agree with Alot of the things you have stated.
It all boils down to
1. Money
2. Quality
3. Purpose

The MAIN reason people buy knockoffs is because of the money. It is cheaper to buy brands like Megan or Isis or XXR over PBM or BC or Works, I mean there is a huge difference in proce ranges between these companies.
But what I don't understand and what really irritates me is when.people fake the funk. Every knockoff or cheaper brand has replica parts. But people will buy the replicas and rock them like they are real.

Now for me my car is a pure 100% Drift car that will be driven on the track. That is its purpose. For that reason I will be buying a BN kit over a Version kit. I have XXR'S over some works(I'll be buying RPF1s later down the line so this doesn't really apply as much) But it's because I plan on the fact that its going to get torn up and abused and I refuse to buy something that is 1000$ as a drifter self financing his car (with a little help from a couple sponsors) knowing I'm going to trash it up.
I'm using XXRs because if I mess them up or brake them it's only 125$ to get another one. If I messed up a Meister say hello to 500-600$ to replace it. That makes no sense. But if your out there going.to shows because you want to be a show car you need to be rocking real parts. There is no ballin on a budget in my opinion.
There is somethings you can go cheap on and some you can't.

If the quality is there I don't see the issue running a slightly cheaper brand. I have all ISIS suspension arms on my car (besides my DGR Track Coils) because I feel it's a quality part for the price it's at,I will one day replace them with a more reputable company when the time comes but for now the ISIS parts are working fine.
That's just my opinion on the matter, if the part is quality I see no issue, if your drifting and are going to wreck wheels don't be drifting with some works.
But like I said its all opinions.

[collegekid]

Yeah^, some things you can skimp on and get away with it and there are some things you CANT. It's very dangerous to do so, but people do. The scary part is that whenever these parts break, there is a huge probability that you will hurt someone else along with yourself.

Any and every car part will break, given enough of a shock (damage, crash). People fail to research the parts that they are buying/companies and just buy shit. Even if you are buying volks or rotas, read up on how they are built. It shouldn't take more than an hour to get a really good idea on what is good and what is bad. Then you call and ask questions.

More price =/= more quality

Know your shit before you buy

Don't put anyone else in danger, either spend the money on the right parts you need (such as a helmet, harness, seat etc ) from GOOD companies, or dont do it until you can afford it.

Also, take a good look at your insurance policy (if you have one) or call them up. See if you are even covered when you go on the track.

Also check with the warranties on all the parts you buy.

[codyace]

People who buy real track parts that hardpark

vs

People who buy knockoffs that daily/abuse them

vs

People who buy knockoffs that pretend they are real

vs

People who buy real stuff and really abuse it


...the irony of it all sometimes.

[K_style]

People who buy real track parts that hardpark

vs

People who buy knockoffs that daily/abuse them

vs

People who buy knockoffs that pretend they are real

vs

People who buy real stuff and really abuse it


...the irony of it all sometimes.


Whatever makes them happy. That's all I can think of..

[codyace]

Whatever makes them happy. That's all I can think of..

That's what I'm getting at. I used to be one of those 'buy the best or get outa here' and as I move along in life/cars/things I'm beginning to realize as long as you're having fun it's all that matters. Too many of the younger guys get caught up with fitting in, rather than just having fun.

[Brian]

if you like knockoffs, you are going to jail.

[Mofuhcka]

There is no such thing as "ballin on a budget". You can look good on a budget, but if you wanna ball, you gotta pay to play.

[The Dude]

There is no such thing as "ballin on a budget". You can look good on a budget, but if you wanna ball, you gotta pay to play.

So you're saying that I can hard park on a budget then? :w00t:

[Mofuhcka]

So you're saying that I can hard park on a budget then? :w00t:

Basically lol :gives:

I dont even care if people have reps, just dont come up to me saying your Varrstoens are real TE37's and that youre so baller cause youre laying frame on blown Ebay coils..

[collegekid]

It really does not matter if the car isn't being driven hard. I swear to God though, if your ebay hub and steering wheel fail and your car slams into mine, I will find you and shove both up your fucking ass. The only time anyone else should give a fuck about what brand of parts someone has when there is a sale going on (which is when you should inspect said product for proper stamps/if they market a fake as a brand name product etc...)

[cchondro]

It really does not matter if the car isn't being driven hard. I swear to God though, if your ebay hub and steering wheel fail and your car slams into mine, I will find you and shove both up your fucking ass. The only time anyone else should give a fuck about what brand of parts someone has when there is a sale going on (which is when you should inspect said product for proper stamps/if they market a fake as a brand name product etc...)

The quality of the ebay Hubs and Quick Releases are not bad at all, they are actually really nice for the price you pay
its funny to see people say that eBay hubs and q.r.s are shitty when 3/4 of the people out there are using NRG's
NRG was a HUGE eBay/rep company trying to make money and guess what, they are one of the largest companies out there for hubs and quick releases, there steering wheels are mid entry level products and their harnesses and seats are not the best. But the quality is still there.

That's what bugs me the most.
it's one thing to buy reps and budget priced parts and claim they are the real thing, but at the end of the day there is nothing wrong with buying ISIS suspension arms or a Megan Exhaust. As long as the quality is there and the part was made properly I see no issue.

[Corbic]

NRG was a HUGE eBay/rep company trying to make money and guess what, they are one of the largest companies out there for hubs and quick releases, there steering wheels are mid entry level products and their harnesses and seats are not the best. But the quality is still there.


What bugs me is why people won't use Grant Steering Wheels or Simpson Harnesses. :picardfp:

[jamg]

i remember back in the day, everyone would bash on knockoffs...

kinda funny to see the transition.

[cchondro]

What bugs me is why people won't use Grant Steering Wheels or Simpson Harnesses. :picardfp:

Steering wheels is not something someone should cheap out on
you can get a nice steering wheel for around 150$, same with harnesses
I have g-force cam lock harnesses, decent prices but still a quality strap

[Corbic]

Steering wheels is not something someone should cheap out on
you can get a nice steering wheel for around 150$, same with harnesses
I have g-force cam lock harnesses, decent prices but still a quality strap

My point is how is Grant "cheaping out". They are proven and have been around for 90 fucking year s (1922). They are an oem provider and have hundreds of designs and styles. They have wheels for as little as $50 right up to $500.


Yet stupid import kids would rather have a tinfoil ebay wheel....for the same price.

[towlie]

I've never liked grant. Maybe in a truck or something but my sparco is x1000000 times better. I rocked stock till I could afford it

[Bmxer300zx]

Lmfao
ya grant wheels... sold in auto zone.. where your all buying your "OEM" replacement parts? Then drive to Walmart and buy their brand bread, cereal and other crap instead of spending the extra 10$ at the mom and pop shop on mainstreet so you can afford your "legit" wheels to hardpark in.
These threads make me LOL.

[xoxide]

The quality of the ebay Hubs and Quick Releases are not bad at all, they are actually really nice for the price you pay
its funny to see people say that eBay hubs and q.r.s are shitty when 3/4 of the people out there are using NRG's.
I dont know if your head is just stuck to far up your ass to see it or not, but those Ebay QR's and hubs are garbage. Sure they "work", that doesnt mean they are decent. Two of my friends put them in their cars, and both QR's have a ton of play/wobble. Thats not safe, thats not ok, and thats not "really nice"... I wouldnt put one on my car if I was paid to do so. I had an ebay hub on my S14 when I bought it, and it was garbage to.. Again lots of wobble that shouldnt be there.

Point being, steering is one huge aspect of a car that shouldnt have shortcuts taken on it... Ive seen the ebay wheels/QR's/hubs and they are all shit... Save up a little longer, keep rocking your stock wheel for a few extra weeks, then buy some quality parts. I can gaurentee you will be 100 times happier in the end.

[EDacIouSX]

I generally hate knock off parts. period. Some stuff out there's pretty damn good (circuit sports) but most of it is complete garbage junk.

[Corbic]

Lmfao
ya grant wheels... sold in auto zone.. where your all buying your "OEM" replacement parts? Then drive to Walmart and buy their brand bread, cereal and other crap instead of spending the extra 10$ at the mom and pop shop on mainstreet so you can afford your "legit" wheels to hardpark in.
These threads make me LOL.


Maybe you need to pull your head out of your ass and hit up their website. Mobile 1 is sold at Autozone as well... LOMAFA garbage oil right?

Just one example -

http://www.fnsweet.com/pics/feature/ROUSH_POSTER_24X32_v4.jpg

http://grantproducts.com

[Bmxer300zx]

Those look like shit i'd rather the 80$ grants at autozone
Point was people walk in daily too buy autozone brand replacement parts by durabrand and bitch about knockoffs or other auto stores like napa. Would you buy their OIL? no you bought mobile1
Oh walmart sells sony whats your point? They're still putting small buisnesses out of buisness.
.
MY Z32 saw nothing but nismo, stillen, z1, brembo and hks so whats pulling my head outa my ass have anything to do with what i said?
.

[The Dude]

Those look like shit i'd rather the 80$ grants at autozone
Point was people walk in daily too buy autozone brand replacement parts by durabrand and bitch about knockoffs or other auto stores like napa. Would you buy their OIL? no you bought mobile1
Oh walmart sells sony whats your point? They're still putting small buisnesses out of buisness.
.
MY Z32 saw nothing but nismo, stillen, z1, brembo and hks so whats pulling my head outa my ass have anything to do with what i said?
.

And the winner of the most incoherent post of the year goes to...

This fucking guy. :goyou:

[Bmxer300zx]

I guess, your all bitching about buying knockoffs and not supporting legit companies yet you all support chain businesses and other crap in one way or another. People will always look for cheap ways around things in life wether its buying knockoffs or shopping at places that mass produce for cheaper and the little man looses out in the end.

[cchondro]

I dont know if your head is just stuck to far up your ass to see it or not, but those Ebay QR's and hubs are garbage. Sure they "work", that doesnt mean they are decent. Two of my friends put them in their cars, and both QR's have a ton of play/wobble. Thats not safe, thats not ok, and thats not "really nice"... I wouldnt put one on my car if I was paid to do so. I had an ebay hub on my S14 when I bought it, and it was garbage to.. Again lots of wobble that shouldnt be there.

Point being, steering is one huge aspect of a car that shouldnt have shortcuts taken on it... Ive seen the ebay wheels/QR's/hubs and they are all shit... Save up a little longer, keep rocking your stock wheel for a few extra weeks, then buy some quality parts. I can gaurentee you will be 100 times happier in the end.

1. Head not up ass just stating facts
2. I never said eBay parts are "nice" just saying there are things that you can purchase for a cheaper price and not have an issue
3. I've been rocking an eBay hub with qr for a while with no issues with wobbling. I plan on upgrading to something nicer but again I've had no problem with my setup, but I will say the wheel my friend gave me is crap and I have a personal on the way
4. Ive never been the person to cheap out on parts because I didn't have the money, I just refuse to pay top dollar for certain parts just because they have a reputable name stamped on it when you can purchase something of the same quality for alot less.

I am in no way saying cheap parts or rep parts are better or that they are ok and reliable. All I'm stating is something's don't need to be top dollar items when there is similar quality in a part that's half the price.

it all comes down to QUALITY.

also I never said grant wheels are crap.
the low end models they make are indeed crap but they do have some nicer products under their name.

[Chuki_KA24e]

Maybe you need to pull your head out of your ass and hit up their website. Mobile 1 is sold at Autozone as well... LOMAFA garbage oil right?

Just one example -

http://www.fnsweet.com/pics/feature/ROUSH_POSTER_24X32_v4.jpg

Grant Steering Wheels (http://grantproducts.com)

I'd rather rock two pairs of vise grips on the end of my steering column than have to look at any one of those ugly riced out piece of shit excuses of wheels. Then again I wouldn't be caught dead driving one of those fuck ugly mustangs either.

[Corbic]

I'd rather rock two pairs of vise grips on the end of my steering column than have to look at any one of those ugly riced out piece of shit excuses of wheels. Then again I wouldn't be caught dead driving one of those fuck ugly mustangs either.

So says the bandwagen jumper with a single cam. :cj:

[Te37]

I could care less about the knockoffs because I support real companies, but fuck the people who rock fake garbage as real shit!

[Chuki_KA24e]

I could care less about the knockoffs because I support real companies, but fuck the people who rock fake garbage as real shit!

^^^This always cracks me up! There will always be people buying knock off's but there is nothing worse than some dumb fuck trying to pass off the knock off stuff for the real deal.

[Chuki_KA24e]

So says the bandwagen jumper with a single cam. :cj:

How am I a bandwagon jumper? I ditched the single slammer reluctantly because it was falling apart and was going to start costing more money than it was worth to fix. I had a spare dual cam lying around so I swapped that shit in. Bandwagon jumpers are the diehard sr20 fanboys, and the noobs that come onto the forum asking for spoon fed info on everything after starting completely useless threads.