I am convinced Nissan wants us to go fuck our selves

[exitspeed]

People on here know my stance on Nissan's intent to build a 240 successor, whatever shape and form it may be. I've said time and time again that I was pretty confident that there were countless signs (FT86 Concept, Genesis Coupe, Mustang V6, etc etc) hat Nissan had something in store for us with both a Nissan and Infiniti version...and now I feel like all hope is lost.

The auto industry crashed, and some stuck with the idea of a car for enthusiasts. I don't think anyone was confident that Hyundai of all people would make something as intriguing as they did. Arguing about that car in particular is pointless because the fact of the matter is they built the next 240 before Nissan did. Whether you want to admit to it or not, it's true. 240's had their flaws as do the Gen Coupes.

I believed Nissan still had some soul though. I mean they built a car that is considered the best bang for your buck super car on the market, and they kept the original Z in mind when building the 370z and other then some awkward headlights and taillights built a damn fine Z successor. They kept all the Infiniti's RWD and any real sport car RWD in the Nissan line. They released a RWD based concept called the Urge and released little rumors here and there that countless automotive sites teased our dicks with. I know I'm not the only one who fell for it. Don't make me quote some of you...

Then Lennon goes on Nissan's Facebook page and they flat out tell him (us) to fuck off and it ain't happinin. Yeah, yeah I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist.

Then despite luxury car sales being down epic proportions (1.19 units down, some 21% compared to 2007) Nissan announces they are debuting two new cars based off of the new M, one a coupe and while not confirmed the other obviously a CUV, which might I add have also not met manufactures goals over the years. A coupe! One that will no doubt cost $60,000+. Now don't get me wrong. The Essence Concept is one of the most GORGEOUS concepts to be released in recent history and I'd LOVE to see a production car based off it so I have something to get me in the mood before my wife comes home from work.

But seriously? seriously?

They want to gamble with a segment that at this point is going to do nothing but hemorrhage money instead of supporting their loyal supporters? People who have fallen in love with their brand, bought their old cars and walk around trying to convince people of how great these old secretary driven cars actually are. People who's demographic are aging, maturing, and making more money then when the car first became popular. People who are now doctors and lawyers, web developers, etc etc and WANT Nissan to deliver the goods so they can spend their hard earned cash on the one car they've so desired for more years then some enthusiasts have even liked their cars.

I'm very frustrated as you can tell. I have confidence in Toyota of all people that they will deliver something we are all looking for. I'm not sure on the price at this point but I fell like they car what the enthusiast wants right now. I feel Hyundai does too. It's an on going debate but what they delivered on on their first attempt is really an amazing vehicle, even with it's flaws.

If Nissan is listening, if anyone has an in, if by some miracle someone as Nissan reads this and can do anything about it, I suggest you do. Before your loyal fans leave you...for good.

[punxva]

i couldn't agree more

[atom]

Not to be a debbie downer but have you seen sports car sales this year? They have completely flatlined across all makes and models. Maybe Nissan knew better all along. I mean yeah obviously it sucks for enthusiasts but $$ bill yall.

And Nissan could not care less about their "loyalists" because they are so few and far between. And compare the average Nissan fanboy to the average VW fanboy. Night and day. Those VDUB guys are HARDCORE when it comes to their brand, Nissan not so much.

I would love to see a new 240 but theres just so much going against it.

[HemiCharger]

that is true. There are alternatives out though. The Subaru version of the FT with be RWD turbo charged and deliver the goods however if you look at the new mustang (I know a mustang???) it hits the mark and sets it high. A cammed v8 with 400 whp -- pretty awesome.

[ESmorz]

Fuck Nissan.

Yeah the 370z is cool, but it's too damn expensive. The 350z has almost unlimited potential for what most people here have the means to do with it, but it looks like a suppository. At least the 370z is a suppository with fangs.

Just face the facts there is a 98% chance they won't put out an affordable, lightweight, RWD car anyanyanytime soon.

Good day. I will enjoy my Toyobaru.

[NismoDriverS13]

Nissan is really starting to depress me.

im gonna start flinging poo at those who work at a Nissan corp. building in my area.

[Gnnr]

Eh, lets be honest. No one on here would be buying one anyways.

The Nissan enthusiast that wants a cheap rwd sports car will probably be buying a used 350Z or G35. Those that want a new car will get a new 370Z...maybe even a G37.

If I wanted to get a new "affordable rwd sports car" I would wait on the FT86. Basically for me a company has to have some sort of passionate fanbase, racing history and pedigree to its name for me to buy a sports car from it. Hyundai doesn't do it for me in that department. Nissan and Toyota on the other hand have that sort of history.

For Zilvians to buy it they would have to top the S15. I don't think I have all the faith in Nissan to be able to do it. Just look at the new GTR. I mean the new GTR is great and all, don't get me wrong, but you know there's just something missing when you compare it to the previous GT-Rs.

I see the next RX-7 coming out before the next 'Silvia' does.

[mrflip69]

Look how broke the s-chassis community is. They can't even follow through with a fucking knock-off lip. You think these same people would shell out the cash for a new car? Sure, maybe there's a handful of people that have the means to do so, but the majority mod their cars with the pennies they find between the cushions of their sofas.

370z overpriced? Remember what these cars are supposed to be competing with, and you'll realize that Nissan has been offering great bang for your buck way back to the first Fairlady.

Good luck with the Toyobaru, because as we get closer to launch date, their price point will keep rising.

Best budget car right now would probably be the '11 V6 Stang.

Buy a new Genesis, if you truly believe it's the 240's replacement LOL!

[HemiCharger]

if old ass 130 thousand mile ae86s are selling for 8-10 grand then something has to be wrong. Someone would have to be out of their freaking mind to pay 8500 for a 1986 ae86 Toyota Corolla? but they do it all day everyday. You buy an old car guess what you have an old car. As everyone on here knows and should know the 240sx has sooooo much more potential then any other tuner cars out there. Just the way it is.

Nissan releases a RWD 240sx with a 2.0 turbo in it and they would sell more than the 350 and the gtr combined. They know this which is why you will not see it happen. The toyobaru will be a homerun for sure.

[!Zar!]

Why market a car towards poor people when you can sell to people with money.

jussayin.

There are plenty of cheap rwd and fun to drive cars.

As I've said a billion times before, most of the people driving on the streets don't even know which wheels power the car.

[FaLKoN240]

If they sold a fair priced car competitive with the Genesis I think it would do well.

Remember people weren't buying the 240SX when it first came out for drifting.

[!Zar!]

Miata, Genesis, Rx8, 370z, 1series. All seem fair enough.

The Z seems to have a lot more history and loyalty than the 240.

Most people loyal to the Z were people who grew up with it and it has a nostalgic factor.

SX just has a bunch of, 'high schoolers' in love with it; of course there are exceptions to the rule.

[Kwonza Says]

Always wondered by some MIRACLE they do bring the SX back how would it look like...you think they will do a decent job or just flat murder the look O.o

[TheWolf]

Marketing a car to people who can afford a 60k car is smart. If you're in the market for a 60k car you probably have job security. Affluent people do. People buying 20k cars don't.

One thing you'll learn is that I've learned with BMW/Nissan enthusiasts. 100% of the enthusiasts talk about how if nissan made x car they'd so buy it. 90% of the enthusiasts don't buy new cars. They're cheap broke punks that want to style around and tell you how good their car is and then goto the junkyard and buy a used radiator hose to fix the one that's leaking. "hey I saved $5" 240 kids are the same way. 75% of the people on this board are chasing around a $2500 POS 240sx. Trying to fix the same $300 problems with $75 they saved up. No way are they going to buy a new car today. Maybe one day they might but it probably won't be now and it won't be with in 2 years.

Sure nissan needs to give a little "fan service" every now and again but it's not economically feasible. This generation although they're nissan fans this week will be hyundai fans next week and toyota fans next month. Brand loyalty is a thing of the past unless your marketing booze. The 240sx isn't going to be coming back. What will happen is eventually there will be a trimming. Nice cars will stay nice. Crappy S13's with gutted interiors will degrade into the ground. Then this board will be kinda split. There will be the guys who want to find the best product to maintain their crack free stock dash. Then there will be the guys digging through the trash looking for a used tension rod because their bushing just died and crappy S13's will be 1500. Nice ones will be 5k. They'll never go up in value but enthusiasts will hold on to them. They'll fade like z31's did. Give it time.

[5pecialist]

Nissan is stupid. I love their products, but the actual company is dumber than shit. I will never buy another brand new Nissan/Infiniti product ever again.

[ronmcdon]

Well, I'll believe it when I see it.
Even if they release a new 240, there's no guarantee it's going to be great.
I do think it's mean to tease ppl about some concept car but every manufacturer does that to some extent.

That bieng said, I think the 370Z is a good value that I'm personally satisfied with.
It's one car I can say I would honestly consider.
It's also a car I'd be realistically able afford (unlike the gtr).
There's only a handful of other manufacturers that I can say the same.

Imo, the sweet spot of value to performance is really closer to the $30-40k range.
If there's nothing you can afford now, it wouldn't be so bad to save up for the time bieng.
If that 240 doesn't come out, at least you can 'settle' for a Z

[enkei2k]

Best budget car right now would probably be the '11 V6 Stang.
LOL!

This. The styling actually looks nicer, good performance numbers, MPG, etc...and good price point.

I actually liked it when I saw it on TV. That's saying a lot about how Ford has come full circle IMO.

[polo3men2]

falkon240 said it before i said it. i've owned 4 240's( s13, s14, 180sx, sileighty), in japan, love the car and its weight. so balanced. BUT, when these car were fist on the market, i dont think that any of them(except with the case of the s15), bought them with 0(zero) miles to built them up and used them for drifting.
now check this, how many people does any of US know that bought a 1985-1987 corolla or Ae86(hachi-roku) just cause of Initial-D and dont even know how to drift. i've seen this car sell for $8 grand in the states, all rusted up and shit, are you for real?..
Also, if any of you guys come to japan and going to mountain passes you will be STUNED by the cars you find being drifted. station wagons, VANS, little ass pick up trucks you name it, and im sure the NONE were made for drifting. some cars out in the states "shouldnt be used for drifting" as Keichi Tsuchia said, ie: viper, soltice($70,000+ rides) BMW's(325i, 5 series' and so on.

yea we are most disappointed that these beautifully designed cars have ceased production but there are other cars that are affordable. i'll keep a 240(180sx) fir now though haha

[ManoNegra]

Why would Nissan pay attention to what a kid that thinks $400 wheels are 'too expensive' wants?

[tricky_ab]

I see the next RX-7 coming out before the next 'Silvia' does.

Yeppers, I totally agree...

Why would Nissan pay attention to what a kid that thinks $400 wheels are 'too expensive' wants?

This is a whole different matter...:barf:

[WanganRunner]

How is the 370z too expensive?

I saw a dealer advertising a base model near me for like $27,500, which is super cheap for something like that.

[SuicidnS13]

The 370z's driveline and engine harshness is so true in all aspects. Revving the car up feels like the engine was balanced by a 12 year old. I really dont know what they were thinking.

[malady]

i still love nissan

hav fun jumping ship

[driftsilvias13]

I agree with points on both sides here.

Nissan did introduce the 350z which is dirt cheap nowadays and also the 370z.

You see lots of people drifting them more and more because they are getting cheaper.

Majority of people are not going to buy a brand new car and then drift/track it.

[Flicktitty]

Majority of people are not going to buy a brand new car and then drift/track it.
unless it is a competitive car out of the box. I go to countless auto-x and road racing fuctions around the midwest and i see ALOT of new 2009-2010 cars out there, New mustangs, GT-R's,EVO's,Genisis,Camaro's,Vettes,etc

i think there would be a buyer if Nissan got there head out of there ass and made something. But until then you will have to guy by a Hyundai... lol which i know i will never do. I honestly don't believe Toyota will ever come out with that FT86 "toyobaru" bullshit either. too good to be true.

the Japanese sports car is long gone and has been that way for a long time imo.

[exitspeed]

I'm really tired of people on here always assuming 240 owners don't have any money or interest in buying a new car. That stereo type pisses me off. Not everyone on here is a broke ass kid.

[Flicktitty]

I'm really tired of people on here always assuming 240 owners don't have any money or interest in buying a new car. That stereo type pisses me off. Not everyone on here is a broke ass kid.
that is true. i do think the majority of the s-chassis community is "cheap" not broke.

[WrisColf]

i agree. now with the GT-R we wont see anything else from nissan.

Fuck Nissan.

Yeah the 370z is cool, but it's too damn expensive. The 350z has almost unlimited potential for what most people here have the means to do with it, but it looks like a suppository. At least the 370z is a suppository with fangs.

Just face the facts there is a 98% chance they won't put out an affordable, lightweight, RWD car anyanyanytime soon.

Good day. I will enjoy my Toyobaru.

[WrisColf]

the z does have history and its like something people wait for but 240 arent far behind. everyone wanted the skyline and they gave us it. now lets ask for a new S and hopefully they will give us that too. we can just wait and but demand stuff. just how business works.


Miata, Genesis, Rx8, 370z, 1series. All seem fair enough.

The Z seems to have a lot more history and loyalty than the 240.

Most people loyal to the Z were people who grew up with it and it has a nostalgic factor.

SX just has a bunch of, 'high schoolers' in love with it; of course there are exceptions to the rule.

[DALAZ_68]

jeesus, are people still crying about this!?

let it the fuck go already...

[slider2828]

Really guys... I think why should they build somethign that is affordable. It costs the same to make a car that is 60k than a car 20k... Give or take 5-10k.... Looking at it from a business perspective, I am sure the margins on a 40k car is much greater than a 15 to 20k car.... I mean to think about it, if they make a target 20% margin on a 40k car vs. a 20k car, the dollar amount is just more worth the effort. Go after the market that has money.... its a business thing....

In the end, they might have to sell two or three 20k car to make the same margin on a 40k car..... I am exaggerating a little, but thats just my point.....

[drift freaq]

Having been both a former S30 and PL510 owner there is a parallel here that is almost an analogy. I started with 510's Which were marketed as a family oriented sport sedan. Nissan sold tons of them all over the world. In fact they were more popular than a Z or a 240sx.

When they were originally sold they were not so much intended for racing. Though the racers saw the potential in the cars and did race them with factory backing as well. At the same time Nissan started marketing the S30. They stopped selling the HL310 2000 Roadster out of fear of affecting S30 sales.

Now the thing is when I was in High School the 510 was the affordable RWD IRS sports sedan. LOL the analogy begins. Most owners selling them had no idea the cars had been raced successfully winning championships 3 years in a row.

Establishing itself as a underground legend. i.e. the poor mans BMW that kicked the BMW and Alfa's asses routinely.

In fact the only people that did were, a handful of men in their early to mid 20's and high school kids! LOL

Meanwhile the Z car had become a legend both on the track and off the track. Oh and some did dis the styling of it just like people dissing the styling of the 350 and 370 today. LOL
Though the Z sold around the same amount as s13 240sx numbers. Which was considered a success for sports cars in those days.

There were the loyalists who felt 510's were superior to Z's lol again a funny thing because today a lot of 240sx owners want to tout there cars being better than current Z's.

Hahahaha Circles.

The guys that got more successful moved into Z's and or sold their 510's. Mind you this was the first wave of 510 enthusiasm.

Guess what happened guys? Nissan stopped making the 510, ya they made the 610 same suspension but heavier and the 710 as well. Though the enthusiast felt the flame had been lost.
They briefly brought a car out that paid mere lip service to the 510 in name and styling. Though it was a live axle pile. It came out in 79 and lasted till around 81-82. Nissan then killed it.
There was never another 510/ Bluebird stateside ever again.

We did have the Silvia under the 200sx nomenclature. Though at that time and up until the S13 the Silvia was no great shakes in the performance department. IMO

So here we area again. Nissan put out a car that was a entry level sports car and sports coupe that was marketed towards the new buyers as a sporty commute type vehicle. Most of the buyers had no idea what the difference between a RWD VS FWD car was at the time.

Nor did they have any idea of it being a excellent car for driving sideways i.e. drifting. or autocrossing.

hmmmmm begin to see whats going on here.

Mel I understand your passion but truthfully I feel the amount of 240 owners that wound move to a new affordable rear wheel drive coupe from Nissan is small.

Like what happened with the first wave of 510 enthusiasts even some of the hardcore moved on. Few stuck to owning or wanting to own another one.
I moved into Z cars and absolutely loved them. I still do to this day. I got into 240sx's at a time that Nissan did not even offer a Z car worthy of the nomenclature. IMO

Today both the 350 and 370 came closer to fitting that bill than almost any car out on the market.
In fact, West, recently posted a test by Autoblog between the 370, Genesis coupe and the Mustang. While they liked the Hyundai for some things in the end the 370 won them overall.


Oh and for all the Hyundai Genesis coupe lovers. The cars are not selling all that well. I see a lot more 370's on the road than Genesis's.

Fact is Nissan is watching the numbers on Genesis sales and gauging the market off them. In times like these its not a bad move from an investment perspective.

[upsdude]

Fact is Nissan is watching the numbers on Genesis sales and gauging the market off them. In times like these its not a bad move from an investment perspective.


yup it's only common sense on nissan's part. if ppl aren't buying a certain type of car in large numbers, why bother trying to enter the segment.

[exitspeed]

Oh and for all the Hyundai Genesis coupe lovers. The cars are not selling all that well. I see a lot more 370's on the road than Genesis's.

Fact is Nissan is watching the numbers on Genesis sales and gauging the market off them. In times like these its not a bad move from an investment perspective.

Dave I believe the economy has the most to do with those cars not selling well. Pretty much like you said.

The point is though THEY DID IT! And their image because of that car, the Gen Sedan, new Sonata, and Tuscon has went through the roof. Yes I understand Nissan still has the Z, G, and GTR, but I honestly feel like if they wanted to cater at all to the enthusiasts they'd release a new SX and show Hyundai how the fuck it's done.

And the argument people have said about them wanting to sell to a more expensive buyer is BS. Did you guys read the stats I posted about luxury car sales? They are dismal. You know what two cars are selling like crack rocks right now? The Mustang and the Camaro. Nissan has room below the Z for another car. I just honestly don't think they care right now. Shit at least tease us a little with a concept. let us know that you haven't forgotten us completely.

If the FT86 comes out within the next few years, it's mine.

[alpha180sx]

guess they are more leaning on keeping the company up and running than feeding the enthusiasts

[Gnnr]

Last I checked, the bad economy didn't effect the ballers in the same way it did the middle and lower classes. Why luxury car sales are low now I don't know, but I know Nissan has statisticians that predict trends etc. so I'm sure they know what they're doing in that respect.

The Mustang and Camaro are selling like hot cakes because the muscle car enthusiast segment is HUGE in America. All the American car makers where smart in bringing back these retro styled sports cars. In that respect they KNOW their market.

I'm sure Nissan knows their market as well and whats going to work for them. What works for one car manufacturer doesn't work for all of them. I would say this. Carlos Goshn is a business GENIUS! Nissan was on life support before he stepped in.

We asked for a new Z, a GTR, and a new 'Silvia'. We got 2 out of 3. I would say that isn't bad.

[alpha180sx]

^^

i think its just a matter of time when they will release it

[drift freaq]

Last I checked, the bad economy didn't effect the ballers in the same way it did the middle and lower classes. Why luxury car sales are low now I don't know, but I know Nissan has statisticians that predict trends etc. so I'm sure they know what they're doing in that respect.

The Mustang and Camaro are selling like hot cakes because the muscle car enthusiast segment is HUGE in America. All the American car makers where smart in bringing back these retro styled sports cars. In that respect they KNOW their market.

I'm sure Nissan knows their market as well and whats going to work for them. What works for one car manufacturer doesn't work for all of them. I would say this.
Carlos Goshn is a business GENIUS! Nissan was on life support before he stepped in.


We asked for a new Z, a GTR, and a new 'Silvia'. We got 2 out of 3. I would say that isn't bad.

I would say that contrary to your assessment of ballers, fact is the richer people have in fact pulled back on their spending. I have seen it firsthand.
Oh and as far as American car makers knowing what the American public wants? Give more of that credit to Ford than GM. GM is still pretty damn clueless compared to Ford.

As far as the rest of your statement goes? You are pretty much on the money, especially with the highlighted statement about Carlos Ghosn .

You are correct, that he gave us the two most Iconic Nissan namesakes of all. People should be happy about that.
I remember when people were crying about how we did not get the Skyline and we were never going to get it and whatnot. Look what happened.

I do not think Nissan's Facebook page is complete gospel from corporate. If you do then I suggest you take a step back from your computer.

You( and I say this in completely non offensive way )quite possibly have become addicted to believing that things on the Internet are gospel.

In other words I do not believe that what is written on Nissan's Facebook page is part in parcel Corporate planning or decision.

Come on use your brain, Nissan nor Toyota nor any of these companies is going to post all the corporate info or plans on Facebook. LOL
That's is A: giving Facebook way to much credibility and B: Expecting a corporation to expose itself in public.

Hell look at Toyota and how much shit there were keeping secret from the Public on reliability and possible issues with their products.

[GSXRJJordan]

I'm really tired of people on here always assuming 240 owners don't have any money or interest in buying a new car. That stereo type pisses me off. Not everyone on here is a broke ass kid.

that is true. i do think the majority of the s-chassis community is "cheap" not broke.

This. Most of the crowd I work and play with can go buy a $25k car any time they want. I can sell my LSx FD for almost that much. Hell, Luke bought a Gen Coupe to play with and make parts for, just because. Don't underestimate the purchasing power of people with jobs and/or parents and their ability to incur debt for shit that they want lol.

We choose to play with these cars because the *value* is there. Value doesn't have much to do with price, just like a $35k used C6 Z06 is an incredible value and a $20k stock Z33 is not a good value. As stated before, if the car is relatively competitive and stylish out of the box (cough, Gen coupe) the sales will be there! The aftermarket and racing in general will always be here to continue the hype and push sales a couple years down the line.

[drift freaq]

This. Most of the crowd I work and play with can go buy a $25k car any time they want. I can sell my LSx FD for almost that much. Hell, Luke bought a Gen Coupe to play with and make parts for, just because. Don't underestimate the purchasing power of people with jobs and/or parents and their ability to incur debt for shit that they want lol.

We choose to play with these cars because the *value* is there. Value doesn't have much to do with price, just like a $35k used C6 Z06 is an incredible value and a $20k stock Z33 is not a good value. As stated before, if the car is relatively competitive and stylish out of the box (cough, Gen coupe) the sales will be there! The aftermarket and racing in general will always be here to continue the hype and push sales a couple years down the line.

Ya except that you can buy a lot of Z33's for 10k at this point and less sometimes. I have been watching the market on them.
I honestly feel a 10k Z33 is a much better way to go than buying a new Genesis coupe for 24k.

Shit you could probably even get a 2007 HR powered one for 15k if you play your cards right.

Z34's are the ones that are still up in price but like someone else said a base model 370 for 27k is not bad. Hell even a slightly used one for 24k is not either.

I will also make this qualification. While I do like name brand and quality stuff, I usually never pay retail( wholesale or discounted is the way I roll lol) and most likely would never buy a new car. Due in fact to the whole depreciation situation the minute it rolls off the lot.

[Gnnr]

Oh and as far as American car makers knowing what the American public wants? Give more of that credit to Ford than GM. GM is still pretty damn clueless compared to Ford.

Oh, I know. I've praised Ford already for making profits while the other two where getting bailed out. I think the Camaro was just marketed well with the Transformers movies and all.

In other words I do not believe that what is written on Nissan's Facebook page is part in parcel Corporate planning or decision.

I agree. Its probably some pimply faced intern who is handling their facebook page anyways. lol.

[!Zar!]

A majority of the 240 community is cheap/broke.

As I said in my prior post, sure there are a few exceptions, but for the most part, people who fuck around with 240's are cheap fucks.

The 240 isn't really anything all that special. There are better choices as a weekend car, a track car, a daily driver. The only reason most people love them is because they are a cheap and fun for the dollar.

The GTR was viable because people who wanted one were able to afford it.

A 240 can come out, sure, but unless it is cheap like a Scion or something, I just see it floating around there and it would be too close to the 370z price and it would cut into their own sales.

Why saturate the market for yourself?

I'll keep harping on the fact that is there really a need for a cheap rwd car to the general public?

Just buy a nice used rwd car.

What do you all want/expect a new SX to do that the 370z doesn't already do?

You all ranted and raved about the Genesis and acted like it was the best thing to man, yet most who talked about it haven't followed through with actually purchasing it.

Go to Hyundai, buy a Genesis, then drive over to Nissan and buy some 240sx emblems.

Slap that shit on.

DONE.

[deolio]

it doesn't really even matter. they still have given us the 350z and 370z to play with to keep us entertained for a long time. as long as it's rwd with power potential, i don't really care. i am confident nissan will continue supplying enthusiasts with a capable rwd sports car for years to come. i believe that nissan will eventually bring back the silvia. it just takes time...

[VNG704]

Two sporty car models per auto make is enough. There's the Z and GTR, maybe Sentra se-r depending on how you look at it. Look at the market, that's all most other (japanese) car makers have in their lineup. The new Maxima is flashing the FDSC sticker thing agian. That being said, another 240sx/Silvia base model for Nissan would be nice.

Teasing, if there were any, is kinda wack. Any complaints would probably be from 240sx/Silvia fans only.

[!Zar!]

Why don't you people buy 370z's?

[TheWolf]

240sx people are cheap. End of end. All enthusiasts are. If you goto ferrarichat. Ferrari enthusiasts are trying to adapt ford focus gas struts to hold up the engine cowl instead of ferrari ones. MB guys are trying to find non MB hydraulic oil to get their hard tops to close.
BMW guys are at it twice as bad. They'll buy a $65 window regulator because it has a lifetime warranty but breaks every 6 months. Almost all enthusiasts are on a VALUE for dollar mindset. Are these $45 chinese RUCA's any good? ie are these a good value for my dollar. Cmon how many times have you heard these kinda questions.

This is the second argument. You hear this a million times in the genisis thread and in practically any thread about a new car.

I'd totally buy one, it met all my expectations.
(but you didn't buy it for some reason)

I've got x car and the (ability, drive, cash, flow) to go buy one but my car has such great "value".

Surprise NO NEW CAR IS A VALUE!!! It's a mountain of dicks and depreciation.
BUT! Someone has to buy it new so you can buy it used, throw the motor out and stuff an ls1 in it and then drift it into a pole. Attracting the retard that paid $36,000 plus tax tag etc in 1995 for that FD that needed 3 engine rebuilds to get out of it's warranty period. That's what nissan wants to get. Idiots with lots of cash, good credit, chomping at the bit to hand you their money for x item. That's the market.

Nissan wants to attract the "buy it new" person. That person is RARELY an enthusiast. 240sx's were the primo secretary special girls car. Girls thought it was a very nice and sporty car that was easy to get in and out of without flashing the whole world. Not fast but not slow and good on gas. Plus nissan would finance anyone with edgy credit. No sense in selling a car if sally with 1 kid and a divorce can't buy it for a tax refund advance loan and 10%. Especially when the leading contender.. the cavalier went from "meh" to "ugh neon competitor" in the same year S14's started rolling out.

Do you honestly think a mazda enthusiast buys a miata with a retracting hardtop for $29k and says wow what a great value!!? Holy $hit good thing they still had one on the lot. I can't believe this!! How lucky am I!!

As absurd as a 30k+ out the door miata is.. Somone.. Somewhere is buying one this very minute. That is the stark absurdity of the car business. Value is a foreign concept. Impulse, cheap financing, and cheap gimicks move cars.

[jamanrr]

yeah it does seem the people who market these cars are paying attention. The Hyundai would not will not sell as well as the Toyota, Nissan or Subaru version of this car because the Japanese and German manufacturers have very brand loyal customers.

[SuicidnS13]

unless it is a competitive car out of the box. I go to countless auto-x and road racing fuctions around the midwest and i see ALOT of new 2009-2010 cars out there, New mustangs, GT-R's,EVO's,Genisis,Camaro's,Vettes,etc

i think there would be a buyer if Nissan got there head out of there ass and made something. But until then you will have to guy by a Hyundai... lol which i know i will never do. I honestly don't believe Toyota will ever come out with that FT86 "toyobaru" bullshit either. too good to be true.

the Japanese sports car is long gone and has been that way for a long time imo.

Performance cars dont pay the bills kids. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but its thinking like this that companies like Mitsubishi and Chevy are in deep trouble financially. Everything else they make is sub-par compared to their higher end cars. EVO is the only mitsushiti I would drive, as is the vette is the only chevy I would ever touch. My family wagon saturn vue was totalled in less than 65k due to soo many failed electronics.

[sw20>>s14]

moral of the story is to just make more money...take the 15-23k you planned to spend buying that "240sx successor" had it been offered and put it towards an mba program...instead of harping about a lack of competent sporty entry level vehicles, progress to the upper echelon...

[jspec240]

I believe the "NEW" Nissan era is a shit ball even though the 370z is nice I think they will ever the same because they dont have the interest/love of the S chassis like they did before and even if they did I think it wouldnt even come close to what they built before. they had to use the z instead which is a totally different breed. God I wish they would just make an s16...


kinda off topic but a man with the last name Nissan bought a nissan.com before nissan did and nissan tried to sue him... WTF... just find a new domain and get on with it...

check out nissan.com...

[Future240]

People who want to afford new cars buy them. I cannot afford a new car right now due to just graduating college, when I get employment I will be able to afford a new car. Will I choose to buy one? No.

I drive a 240sx because of the value. It is a car that looks good despite its age, can be made to handle well and pretty fast for a lot less than a newer car would cost. In addition you have tons of options to do either.

Z33's are getting cheaper, but what are your options with them? The engine doesn't like to be boosted. There really are no feasible swaps for them. It is pretty fast for it's class, but lets be real an SR powered S-Chassis with a FMIC, exhaust, boost controller, can be had for less than the cost of a Z, and it will probably be faster than the Z.

As far as the S-chassis replacement goes, Nissan confuses me. Their line up of cars GTR at the top, followed by the 370Z, then the Maxima (supposed to be a fusion of sports car and sedan), next you have the Altima sport coupe, lastly that monstrosity the Sentra.

Those are all sporty cars, two of them being true sports cars. If the Altima sport did not exist I could see the replacement being behind the maxima. Honestly looking at their current line up. A 2.0 turbo car with tons of potential (think SR with boost controller) doesn't seem to fit in that line up.

If they announce they are ceasing production on the sport coupe Altima, then I could see an S-chassis replacement. Till then I am just going to drive my 1997 240SX until I can afford a used G37,Suby WRX, EVO, etc.

[Matej]

To be honest, I have not liked a single Nissan design in the past decade.
If they made a successor to the S-chassis, I am afraid there would be a good chance of it going the way of a disappointing money-grubbing sequel to a great movie.

[vvtisupra]

u're better off sticking with hyundai and their 2 liter making 270 hp 11.3:1 compression turbo charged 4 cylinder

[deolio]

As far as the S-chassis replacement goes, Nissan confuses me. Their line up of cars GTR at the top, followed by the 370Z, then the Maxima (supposed to be a fusion of sports car and sedan), next you have the Altima sport coupe, lastly that monstrosity the Sentra.

Those are all sporty cars, two of them being true sports cars. If the Altima sport did not exist I could see the replacement being behind the maxima. Honestly looking at their current line up. A 2.0 turbo car with tons of potential (think SR with boost controller) doesn't seem to fit in that line up.

If they announce they are ceasing production on the sport coupe Altima, then I could see an S-chassis replacement. Till then I am just going to drive my 1997 240SX until I can afford a used G37,Suby WRX, EVO, etc.

i don't think they would introduce a silvia successor while the 370z is still in production. it would be a bit of a competitor. they should just make the sentra rwd. i'd be happy enough with that. a light, inexpensive, 4-door, rwd sports sedan would be awesome. there really isn't anything like that on the market.

[Future240]

^I forgot about that too. A Silvia succesor would be too much threat to the 370z. Especially if it had a power plant with as much potential as the SR20.

The only way I could see it is if they made the Z turbo. Unless they took the
sentra redesigned it, made it RWD, gave it a 1.8 turbo engine. Then you have your succesor.

[jamanrr]

^I forgot about that too. A Silvia succesor would be too much threat to the 370z. Especially if it had a power plant with as much potential as the SR20.

The only way I could see it is if they made the Z turbo. Unless they took the
sentra redesigned it, made it RWD, gave it a 1.8 turbo engine. Then you have your succesor.


you have to figure though that Nissan made awesome cars in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Then got sold to renault. Nissan is and always has been about the early z cars, the 510 and then moved up in the early 90s to the NX2000/ Sentra SER sr20 twins. Those were all great cars and not just on the street many and I mean many SCCA champions in each of them. They have lost their soul to the idea of one or two platforms making 10 different cars off of them. If they ever are to get back to what Nissan was then they need to bring back old name plates and old designs.

[Future240]

^Good point. Exept the old ways lead them to near finacial ruin.

[exitspeed]

Why don't you people buy 370z's?

For the same reason I didn't buy a Z32 over a 240. Becuase I wanted something lighter, less HP, more geared towards handling, and less expensive.

And guys there is PLENTY of room for an SX under the 370z. It should be topping out at $28k. The MSRP on a bases base 370 is 29900.

Again my point is I feel like they just don't care. Not that they aren't because of this and that, but they don't care. At least Toyota is giving people hope with the FT86. Some light at the end of the tunnel. Some once of respect towards that community. Even if it takes a while for it to hit the market they are at least letting you know they are thinking of the enthusiast.

Toyota makes me think of another factor here...you don't always make a car to make a profit. Look at what they are doing with the LFA. They are going to loose their ass on that car. But there's more to it then loosing money on those particular sales. It's a halo car in every sense of the word. Obviously that is on the exact opposite end of the spectrum but the idea is the same.

[jamanrr]

For the same reason I didn't buy a Z32 over a 240. Becuase I wanted something lighter, less HP, more geared towards handling, and less expensive.

And guys there is PLENTY of room for an SX under the 370z. It should be topping out at $28k. The MSRP on a bases base 370 is 29900.

Again my point is I feel like they just don't care. Not that they aren't because of this and that, but they don't care. At least Toyota is giving people hope with the FT86. Some light at the end of the tunnel. Some once of respect towards that community. Even if it takes a while for it to hit the market they are at least letting you know they are thinking of the enthusiast.

Toyota makes me think of another factor here...you don't always make a car to make a profit. Look at what they are doing with the LFA. They are going to loose their ass on that car. But there's more to it then loosing money on those particular sales. It's a halo car in every sense of the word. Obviously that is on the exact opposite end of the spectrum but the idea is the same.

One of the thing is too now domestic manufacturers (I hate to say this) have caught up with foreign competitors. They have to have a product that is competitive with current offerings. The muscle cars such as the Camaro, mustang and Challenger are back. The foreign manufacturers are trying to compete against 400-500 horsepower v8s. Lets face it with all the regulations governing car makers these days there is no way they can ever get to 2600-2800 curb weights again. Not with 4 seats. The toyobaru will be successful because it will be a tribute to the early 80s cars thus the joint venture. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, and whoever can not feasibly make 1 off production of a cheap light weight RWD car cause it will sell like the last s14 series did around 7-8 thousand cars a year. I love my s14 and will always have it but I also know that the early s13 models which sold in the hundreds of thousands are a thing of the past.

[drift freaq]

One of the thing is too now domestic manufacturers (I hate to say this) have caught up with foreign competitors. They have to have a product that is competitive with current offerings. The muscle cars such as the Camaro, mustang and Challenger are back. The foreign manufacturers are trying to compete against 400-500 horsepower v8s. Lets face it with all the regulations governing car makers these days there is no way they can ever get to 2600-2800 curb weights again. Not with 4 seats. The toyobaru will be successful because it will be a tribute to the early 80s cars thus the joint venture. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, and whoever can not feasibly make 1 off production of a cheap light weight RWD car cause it will sell like the last s14 series did around 7-8 thousand cars a year. I love my s14 and will always have it but I also know that the early s13 models which sold in the hundreds of thousands are a thing of the past.

Ford is the only American car company that can currently compete with the Japanese manufacturers.

Just because GM makes the Camaro and the Vette and Chrysler makes the Charger does not solve either of the companies poor marketing decisions over all. Or their less than stellar manufacturing.

Don't get me wrong I like Vettes and I appreciate some of the New Caddies. Yet I have yet to see GM fit and finish last more than a couple of years.
Chrysler? Don't even get me started, that company should have been allowed to go bankrupt.

Some of you just seem to forgot. When the 240sx came out, while interesting it was also sort of a ho hum car. Looks were not bad, but it did not stand out as they needed it to, in the then crowded market segment. HP was not high enough either, thanks to Honda/Acura with 170HP Integra's and Ford with V6 Probes.

It sold good for the first two years and then the Integra killed it. Most of the buying public did not know the difference between FWD and RWD like I said earlier.

Now you are pining for something like that? Guess what you all would be criticizing it for not being good enough.

Just like you all do about the 300HP 3.5 liter NA V6 in the 350Z which is actually amazing numbers for a V6 NA engine that size. Or the 335HP 3.7 in the 370. Oh and it took Ford all the way till now to come up with a V6 that could match that power while Nissan has been pumping these things out for years.

You guys have a tendency to wish for everything and dis it when it comes. See it all the time here.

How do you know the FT86 is not going to be bigger than it looks? Look at the Genesis Coupe , the car is bigger than a 370Z and weighs more!
How do you know Toyota is not going to jack the price up by the time it really rolls off the production line? Toyota has done this before with MR2's.

Oh and given Toyota's current mechanical issues and more being revealed almost weekly? I would not hold my breath for that car coming out when they say it will.

[exitspeed]

Ford is the only American car company that can currently compete with the Japanese manufacturers.

Just because GM makes the Camaro and the Vette and Chrysler makes the Charger does not solve either of the companies poor marketing decisions over all. Or their less than stellar manufacturing.
.

Dave, GM is competing VERY well right now the Equinox/Terrain, Traverse, Enclave, Camaro, LaCrosse, and Malibu. All are selling very well and are exceeding expectations both sales wise and critically. They are beating Honda and Toyota in MPGm, options, price, and warranty in more the a few of those cases. That is really something considering what kind of company they were just 10 years ago.

But that really doesn't have anything to do with this thread. I'm just pissed.

[SuicidnS13]

Just like you all do about the 300HP 3.5 liter NA V6 in the 350Z which is actually amazing numbers for a V6 NA engine that size. Or the 335HP 3.7 in the 370. Oh and it took Ford all the way till now to come up with a V6 that could match that power while Nissan has been pumping these things out for years.

You guys have a tendency to wish for everything and dis it when it comes. See it all the time here.

How do you know the FT86 is not going to be bigger than it looks? Look at the Genesis Coupe , the car is bigger than a 370Z and weighs more!
How do you know Toyota is not going to jack the price up by the time it really rolls off the production line? Toyota has done this before with MR2's.

Oh and given Toyota's current mechanical issues and more being revealed almost weekly? I would not hold my breath for that car coming out when they say it will.

Nissans vq35 has been a piece of crap for years. Look at all the revisions of the same motor. They give it 10 horse and say its an upgrade when really its just another issue they are trying to fix. Have you logged on a 370z forum and read thread after thread of oil consumption(still cant get it right after almost 8 years with the vq) and also tranny failures after less than 10k. GTR tranny failures left and right....

Atleast the hyundai is more practical in comparison to the 370z. Toyotas issue is more PR than reality. I mean really lets make a big deal about god damn floor mats. And an F'n COP couldnt get a PRIUS to stop for over 30 miles. A supposed high performance trained driver couldnt think to put the damn car in neutral and stop the car. What about all the GM's, VW's and even BMW's with throttle accelerators sticking as well.

As the GOVMNT wants more electrical MONITORING of our vehicles we are going to be forced to put more and more computer controlled devices in our new vehicles.

Ford and all the other companies have had small displacement high hp motors for years. Look at the cosworth escorts and all the lsx powered vehicles world wide.

Trust me I love nissans and all, especially my previous S chassis, but atleast be realistic when your bashing. And definately know the faults of your favorite brand as well.

[drift freaq]

Nissans vq35 has been a piece of crap for years. Look at all the revisions of the same motor. They give it 10 horse and say its an upgrade when really its just another issue they are trying to fix. Have you logged on a 370z forum and read thread after thread of oil consumption(still cant get it right after almost 8 years with the vq) and also tranny failures after less than 10k. GTR tranny failures left and right....

Atleast the hyundai is more practical in comparison to the 370z. Toyotas issue is more PR than reality. I mean really lets make a big deal about god damn floor mats. And an F'n COP couldnt get a PRIUS to stop for over 30 miles. A supposed high performance trained driver couldnt think to put the damn car in neutral and stop the car. What about all the GM's, VW's and even BMW's with throttle accelerators sticking as well.

As the GOVMNT wants more electrical MONITORING of our vehicles we are going to be forced to put more and more computer controlled devices in our new vehicles.

Ford and all the other companies have had small displacement high hp motors for years. Look at the cosworth escorts and all the lsx powered vehicles world wide.

Trust me I love nissans and all, especially my previous S chassis, but atleast be realistic when your bashing. And definately know the faults of your favorite brand as well.

Wow where do I start, first off I was not bashing just stating facts. Second off the VQ35 HR is a great engine with no problems. Third, I have not heard of so called oil consumption problems with 370's. The oil consumption issue was with the rev up model of the VQ35DE the previous version had no such problems. The VQ35HR is a engine that is 80% different internally than the previous versions of VQ35.

It is an amazing engine that is quite capable for turbo boost. If you want I can go into the internal changes? Seeing as you accused me of not knowing what I am talking about. LOL


As far as trans problems? There was was a minor issue in the early Z33 transmissions which Nissan warrantied and corrected with no further issues.
Oh and the internal slave issue on the early 2007 trans, which was a new technology Nissan had never done before. They warrantied it and now it works fine.

Oh and the GTR trans issue was limited strictly a case of people abusing them in launch mode.

Cosworth is a English company not Ford, Ford has Cosworth build high performance engines for them and do special versions for the European market. Oh and I did not bash Ford or there engines.

Oh and just because GM makes a good engine does not always mean they make a good car.
I know the brand I like and I seriously doubt you really know it.

As far as Toyota goes? If you believe the propaganda about it being a carpet issue for sticking throttles, well then again you really do not have all the information. It was in fact a defect in the design of the throttle pedal, oh and this comes straight from the mouth of a Toyota mechanic here in Socal.

I was basically stating stuff in a non confrontational way and you come out of the gate firing guns. I suggest you back off and do your research as I have a lot of friends with Z's and no problems.

Oh and I am on the Z forums as well.

Plus you seem to have the gov conspiracy theory going on here. LOL

[Gnnr]

Again my point is I feel like they just don't care. Not that they aren't because of this and that, but they don't care. At least Toyota is giving people hope with the FT86. Some light at the end of the tunnel. Some once of respect towards that community. Even if it takes a while for it to hit the market they are at least letting you know they are thinking of the enthusiast.

Toyota makes me think of another factor here...you don't always make a car to make a profit. Look at what they are doing with the LFA. They are going to loose their ass on that car. But there's more to it then loosing money on those particular sales. It's a halo car in every sense of the word. Obviously that is on the exact opposite end of the spectrum but the idea is the same.

Oh please. Don't compare Nissan to Toyota. That they're giving them hope? Hopes and dreams is all the Toyota fanbase has to hold on to and has had for years.

Where is the Supra? Huh? They even nixed the Celica. WTF sports car do they have out RIGHT NOW? None.

GTR
G37
370Z
Altima Coupe
Sentra SE-R

That's a good list of sports cars. I think Nissan has responded pretty well to those looking for a sport or sporty car compared to the other Japanese manufacturers.

Lets look at Nissans lower offerings.

370Z NISMO: $39K, 350hp/276tq, 3300 lbs.
370Z Touring: $35K, 332hp/270tq, 3278lbs.
370Z Base: $30K, 332hp/270tq, 3232 lbs.
Altima Coupe 3.5 SR: $27K, 270hp/258tq, 3294 lbs.
Altima Coupe 2.5 S: $22K, 175hp/180tq, 3081 lbs.
Sentra SE-R Spec-V: $20K, 200hp/180tq, 3058 lbs.
Sentra SE-R: $19K, 177hp/172tq, 3078 lbs.

Where do you see anther sports car fitting in there? Don't bring RWD/FWD in to this, because the general public doesn't care. THEY DONT.

One of the thing is too now domestic manufacturers (I hate to say this) have caught up with foreign competitors. They have to have a product that is competitive with current offerings. The muscle cars such as the Camaro, mustang and Challenger are back. The foreign manufacturers are trying to compete against 400-500 horsepower v8s.

Wasn't that the reason they stuck the KA in the 240sx? Because Americans like big motors and they needed to compete with the Mustang. :keke: I'm pretty sure thats what would happen again. Japan would get some kickass turbo motor, we'd get something thats dumbed down, lol.

^Good point. Exept the old ways lead them to near finacial ruin.

Exactly! Nissans stupidity in the 90s is what lead them near bankruptcy. From a business perspective why would you have both the S-Chassis and Z platform out at the same time? Think about it. It cut into the Z sales. Now that I think about, I don't think that will ever happen again. Why would Goshn let that happen?

Now you are pining for something like that? Guess what you all would be criticizing it for not being good enough.

That's what I'm thinking. What do you expect is going to come out of Nissan that wont cut into Z sales. What they would put out would not woo anyone and everyone would complain.

Dave, GM is competing VERY well right now

When Government Money posts $2.1 BILLION dollars in profit like Ford, then I will say they are doing well.

Atleast the hyundai is more practical in comparison to the 370z. Toyotas issue is more PR than reality. I mean really lets make a big deal about god damn floor mats. And an F'n COP couldnt get a PRIUS to stop for over 30 miles. A supposed high performance trained driver couldnt think to put the damn car in neutral and stop the car.

The Genesis hasn't been out long enough to say its more reliable than the Z. Also, the issue in the Prius was with the brakes, not the accelerator. Third, 34 people DIED because of Toyota's negligence. The accelerator safety issue started in 2002. Yeah, there was more media coverage than necessary, but please don't chalk it up to it just being bad PR, they REALLY handled the situation like ASS.

[ronmcdon]

Altima Coupe isn't exactly a sports car.
That POS drives like a sponge, and the Sentra is nothing to write home about.
Even the Frontier Nismo, or whatever the new trim's called is more fun to drive.

If you're talking about overlap,
you could make the case there is no need for the Cube (since there's the Versa & Sentra).
you could also make the case that there's no need for the Maxima (overlap w/ Altima & G37).

Now I like Nissan as they are now,
but I do think there's room for a cheaper RESPECTABLE sports car.
One only need look at a few other Japanese manufacturers

Mazda, miata & rx7.
Subaru, wrx & sti
Mitsu, ralliart, evo

I suppose Nissan could do this the easy way and make a cheaper trim for the Z.
Maybe make a nice 200hp turbo Z and call it a day.
The car is light enough as is, so it's not a far stretch.
Would also help them with the CAFE deal & offer a more fuel efficient alternative.

[!Zar!]

Everyone complains about what should be instead of being happy about what is.

Want a newer car than a s13, buy a s14.

The world has problems.
CUG0oD2eGlg

[upsdude]

they've got the altima coupe, which btw looks sexy IMO. yeah it's fwd but it's got good power, nice looks...and if a s-chassis was revived they'd be fighting each other for sales. did a quick glance at building an altima. 2.5 comes rated at 175hp for 23k to start before options. the 3.5sr starts at a little over 27k (just under the 370z price range). comes with a 3.5L engine that puts out 270hp at the flywheel...it doesn't seem logical to stick another model in the lineup. what would be the selling point? that one model is rwd and one is fwd? it would make more sense to make a rwd altima and call it the se-r or something rather than make a whole new car. but that's just my opinion.

i'm not holding my breath for a new s-chassis anyways-i'd rather wait and see if this ft86 comes out or get a used g35/g37.

[Gnnr]

If you're talking about overlap,
you could make the case there is no need for the Cube (since there's the Versa & Sentra).
you could also make the case that there's no need for the Maxima (overlap w/ Altima & G37).

The Cube is there to compete with the xB's and such cars. The Altima is a Midsize sedan and the Maxima is a full sized sedan. The Versa is a hatchback. There is enough distinction there.

[kingkilburn]

The Altima and Maxima are very nearly the same size car. The Maxima is a "lifestyle" car.







I would bet money that Nissan has a new 240SX of some sort or another 95% designed sitting on a shelf collecting dust waiting for the right economy and market to put it out.
That time may never come in the lifespan of the FM platform though.

[exitspeed]

Oh please. Don't compare Nissan to Toyota. That they're giving them hope? Hopes and dreams is all the Toyota fanbase has to hold on to and has had for years.

Where is the Supra? Huh? They even nixed the Celica. WTF sports car do they have out RIGHT NOW? None.



Oh I won't argue with what Toyota is currently offering. There's no doubt that over the last 15 years they've completely abandoned the enthusiast except for the same guy who would buy a Civic int he tC. But they have said that they know they need to bring back cars with soul and after the mess with UA dies down it'll be the perfect time. The Supra however isn't coming back. Not any time soon. They said that flat out. I'd actually be relieved if Nissan did the same with the SX. Just tell us what the plan is. I don't think that's too much to ask.

[axiomatik]

I would love to see a new 240 as well, but I'm not holding my breath. Besides, I've owned my coupe for 15 years now, I'm not letting go of it, and I don't realistically see myself adding a 2nd, new one to the garage.

But there are several reasons why Nissan hasn't brought back a 240.

1st - The market has changed completely. Where have all the compact 2-doors gone? No 240sx, no Celica, no Prelude, no Integra/RSX, no Sentra 2-door/200sx, no Mazda MX-3, no NX2000, no Pulsar. Of the 2-doors still available, Civic, Cavalier, Focus, you hardly see the 2-door versions versus the number of 4-doors on the road. The Scion TC seems to be the only one selling in decent numbers, and once the uglified new model comes out, I wonder what sales are going to do. I don't know if it's a change in buyers attitudes or a reflection of manufacturers evolving product strategies, but compact 2-doors are practically going the way of the dinosaur. Even in larger cars, there used to be way more 2-doors, Monte Carlos, Eldorados, Lincoln 2-doors, etc.

2nd - Back in the 90's, the Z sold at a much higher price point than today. The TT 300ZX sold for around $40k 15 years ago, that's like $55k today. That allowed for much more room below it for additional sporty cars. Any 240 successor would be competing with 2-3 year old Z's for sales.

3rd - The rise of BMW. Ever notice just how many BMW's are on the road today? Certainly way more then back in the nineties. It seems to me that many enthusiasts today would rather buy a used BMW than a new sporty car from other manufacturers.

[lucky7]

lol @ Mel. if they ever build one, you know it's going to be a big fat pig. every new sports car that comes out is just that, a big fat pig. do not want anything recent. do not care about nurburgring lap times or 0-60 times anymore. i think i want an elise or boxster s.

[!Zar!]

For the same reason I didn't buy a Z32 over a 240. Becuase I wanted something lighter, less HP, more geared towards handling, and less expensive.

A 370z weighs only 400 +/- more than a s14. Which means a lot considering how much more car you are getting. And even at that, it is shorter than a s14, so still compact since everyone is up in arms about how big current cars are.

I mean, if you take away all the sound deadening and extras, I'm sure it would be just as light as a 240; with the sound quality of one also.

Not to mention, a 370z handles light years better than a 240sx.

[lucky7]

an S14 is by no means a light weight. mine feels like a big fat pig too. :keke:

[!Zar!]

I simply compared it to it since it was the last version in the US, and everyone is crying about how it isn't fair. Yet we pretty much have what everyone wants now, but they still complain.

I don't get it.

[upsdude]

it's not the end of the world if the 240 isn't brought back. it would be cool for sure, but life goes on.

[drift freaq]

I simply compared it to it since it was the last version in the US, and everyone is crying about how it isn't fair. Yet we pretty much have what everyone wants now, but they still complain.

I don't get it.
This is my opinion. No one need take it personally.

They complain Mel because its a Z car. If Nissan had thrown the SX nomenclature on it, how would they have reacted? They also complain because they don't realize that the price performance ratio is fantastic. Yet they think its overpriced.

Like someone else previously pointed out a 300HP TT Z in 92 was a 40k car. The fact that you can get a Z today for starting 27-29k with over 300HP and it is lighter than the TT and handles better is just lost on them.

As is the fact that in today's money that TT Z would be a 50k plus car. LOL

They have tunnel vision for a 240sx successor in namesake. Oh and most of them have never driven a new Z! So they have no clue as to how dope the cars can be.

[upsdude]

i've seen it in person (the 370z)-much different and better looking once you're up close to it. i sat in the 40th anniversary edition at the dealer...really nice. it was like 40k though.

[exitspeed]

I don't want a 300hp V6. I'd be happy with a 4 cyl turbo with 220 hp, 2900lbs, and $25,000 base model with a diff. This is pretty much what the idea of the FT86 was. That's a totally different car then a Z.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Z. But I want something else.

[!Zar!]

Want
Need

[exitspeed]

Want
Need

However you want to slice it, Nissan isn't getting my money until they build the car I want. I need a Camry, and I have one. I want a new SX.

I'm going to buy another 240. I could buy a 350Z but it's not what I'm looking for.

[Future240]

I think people want another 240 because as I said before, there are a million things you can do to an S-chassis to make it fast, a lot of them pretty cheap. For a Z you are going to hemorrhage cash to make it faster than it is.

[Gnnr]

They have tunnel vision for a 240sx successor in namesake. Oh and most of them have never driven a new Z! So they have no clue as to how dope the cars can be.

lol. That reminds me of S14 owner I know. After getting out of a Z33 he was like "@#%#$! I spent all this money on suspension and the Z rides nicer stock!"

I think people want another 240 because as I said before, there are a million things you can do to an S-chassis to make it fast, a lot of them pretty cheap. For a Z you are going to hemorrhage cash to make it faster than it is.

The Z has a LOT of aftermarket, so I don't see where you're going with that.

[exitspeed]

I think he meant things are more expensive for the Z, not that there was less available.

[SuicidnS13]

Wow where do I start, first off I was not bashing just stating facts. Second off the VQ35 HR is a great engine with no problems. Third, I have not heard of so called oil consumption problems with 370's. The oil consumption issue was with the rev up model of the VQ35DE the previous version had no such problems. The VQ35HR is a engine that is 80% different internally than the previous versions of VQ35.

It is an amazing engine that is quite capable for turbo boost. If you want I can go into the internal changes? Seeing as you accused me of not knowing what I am talking about. LOL


As far as trans problems? There was was a minor issue in the early Z33 transmissions which Nissan warrantied and corrected with no further issues.
Oh and the internal slave issue on the early 2007 trans, which was a new technology Nissan had never done before. They warrantied it and now it works fine.

Oh and the GTR trans issue was limited strictly a case of people abusing them in launch mode.

Cosworth is a English company not Ford, Ford has Cosworth build high performance engines for them and do special versions for the European market. Oh and I did not bash Ford or there engines.

Oh and just because GM makes a good engine does not always mean they make a good car.
I know the brand I like and I seriously doubt you really know it.

As far as Toyota goes? If you believe the propaganda about it being a carpet issue for sticking throttles, well then again you really do not have all the information. It was in fact a defect in the design of the throttle pedal, oh and this comes straight from the mouth of a Toyota mechanic here in Socal.

I was basically stating stuff in a non confrontational way and you come out of the gate firing guns. I suggest you back off and do your research as I have a lot of friends with Z's and no problems.

Oh and I am on the Z forums as well.

Plus you seem to have the gov conspiracy theory going on here. LOL

Sorry bro I totally did not mean to come at you in a confrontational way on this matter.

In response I know that 80% of the parts were changed in the HR motors. Doesnt mean the design has changed overall how ever. Just made with improved parts.

And I didnt mention all of toyotas problems, but i did know that the pedal was at fault in most of the recalls, but so was the floor mats in the other half. My lexus IS350 was part of this recall. And you are right I do believe a little bit in govmnt conspiracys.

Just note that I have alot of respect for you in this community.

But....

Ive owned 2 350z's (Turbo 03 track and 07 HR) both had issues with oil consumption. And my 07 had a tranny replaced. Nissan just makes weak trannies period. My 03 was actually the most reliable. I, like your self, also have tons of friends with 350z's/370z's and GTR's with only MINOR issues. None of them are trouble free, thats for sure. I also am on the Z boards and here are a few links for you on the 370z's.

Oil Consumption on 370z and engine replacements
370Z oil consumption - Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/7827-370z-oil-consumption.html)

Tranny issues on the 370z's
5th gear "crunching" with shift - Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/12788-5th-gear-crunching-shift.html)

These are just a few of them posted up from one board. Figure only about 25% of owners of the actual vehicle actually go on boards. That works out to about a 5-10% failure rate on there engines and trannies. Also Consumer Reports only rates the 370z at a 6 out of 10 on the average for reliability.

Nissan makes fun cars for a good deal hands down. Reliable is a whole different subject. Comparing engineering side by side is apparant especially when you compare a JZ to an RB or a 4g63 or 3sgte to an SR20. Nissan definately has the suspension and chassis design down in comparison to the rest of the budget performance car market.

[Future240]

lol. That reminds me of S14 owner I know. After getting out of a Z33 he was like "@#%#$! I spent all this money on suspension and the Z rides nicer stock!"



The Z has a LOT of aftermarket, so I don't see where you're going with that.

Going aftermarket with the Z is a lot more costly than doing so with a 240sx. I think this is the draw that people want in a "new 240sx" this is also something the 370z doesn't have.

Here are some examples

350z-
Cams / Valvetrain - Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication (http://www.enjukuracing.com/nissan-350zg35-cams-valvetrain-c-12_205.html)
Nismo Colder Thermostat -VQ35 [ 21200-RSZ30 ] - Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication (http://www.enjukuracing.com/nismo-colder-thermostat-vq35-p-9866.html)
Koyo Aluminum Radiator for Nissan 350z [ R2577 ] - Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication (http://www.enjukuracing.com/koyo-aluminum-radiator-nissan-350z-p-7128.html)
Greddy Tuner Twin Turbo Kit VQ35HR [ GRE11520094 ] - Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication (http://www.enjukuracing.com/greddy-tuner-twin-turbo-vq35hr-p-8713.html)

240sx

Brian Crower Camshafts for KA24DE [ BC02XX ] - Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication (http://www.enjukuracing.com/brian-crower-camshafts-ka24de-p-7058.html)
NISMO Colder Thermostat : SR & KA [ 21200-RS5 ] - Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication (http://www.enjukuracing.com/nismo-colder-thermostat-p-7999.html)
Koyo Aluminum Radiator Nissan 240sx w/KA24DE or CA18DET [ RXXXX ] - Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication (http://www.enjukuracing.com/koyo-aluminum-radiator-nissan-240sx-wka24de-ca18det-p-7041.html)
Greddy S14 KA24DE TD06 Bolt On Turbo Kit [ 11520633 ] - Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication (http://www.enjukuracing.com/greddy-ka24de-td06-bolt-turbo-p-7491.html)


I can already hear the arguments "Well the 350z is a V6 so of course its more expensive" Well that is the point I am making. The Z has a lot of aftermarket options, the 240sx has more for cheaper. If Nissan released a new 240sx, it is safe to say that we would expect aftermarket parts to cost less than that of the 350/370z.

Hence why a lot of people will buy S-chassis over Z cars. I have nothing against the Z cars. Nismo 350's are sexy and I think a 370z is hot tits, but I would still rather drive and mod a 240 since it could be done for a lot cheaper and still be a blast to drive.

[ESmorz]

Correct me if I'm wrong but purchasing and modifying a 240 in it's infancy was no cheap feat either.

The car is 20+ years old. Of course it's fucking cheap.

[ZilviaKid]

brand loyalty is overrated. why should i cling for hope that nissan will make a new car at a price thats reasonable when the hyundai is around? rebadge it a 240sx if you want.

after thinking about the subject of if i would be willing to buy a new SX should they make it, i realized that i could easily buy a nice used 370z or an old 911.

ive let go. i like my s13 for what it is, i couldnt care less if nissan makes something else.

[drift freaq]

Sorry bro I totally did not mean to come at you in a confrontational way on this matter.

In response I know that 80% of the parts were changed in the HR motors. Doesnt mean the design has changed overall how ever. Just made with improved parts.

And I didnt mention all of toyotas problems, but i did know that the pedal was at fault in most of the recalls, but so was the floor mats in the other half. My lexus IS350 was part of this recall. And you are right I do believe a little bit in govmnt conspiracys.

Just note that I have alot of respect for you in this community.

But....

Ive owned 2 350z's (Turbo 03 track and 07 HR) both had issues with oil consumption. And my 07 had a tranny replaced. Nissan just makes weak trannies period. My 03 was actually the most reliable. I, like your self, also have tons of friends with 350z's/370z's and GTR's with only MINOR issues. None of them are trouble free, thats for sure. I also am on the Z boards and here are a few links for you on the 370z's.

Oil Consumption on 370z and engine replacements
370Z oil consumption - Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/7827-370z-oil-consumption.html)

Tranny issues on the 370z's
5th gear "crunching" with shift - Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/12788-5th-gear-crunching-shift.html)

These are just a few of them posted up from one board. Figure only about 25% of owners of the actual vehicle actually go on boards. That works out to about a 5-10% failure rate on there engines and trannies. Also Consumer Reports only rates the 370z at a 6 out of 10 on the average for reliability.

Nissan makes fun cars for a good deal hands down. Reliable is a whole different subject. Comparing engineering side by side is apparant especially when you compare a JZ to an RB or a 4g63 or 3sgte to an SR20. Nissan definately has the suspension and chassis design down in comparison to the rest of the budget performance car market.

well I read the thread and its funny that someone reported the LSX's having the same amount of consumption. Oh and from a mechanical standpoint its not uncommon for engine to run through a quart of oil every 3-4k . Which is what those guys on the forum are reporting.
I also suspect rough break in as being a problem as well. A lot of these guys trash the fuck out of the cars from word go.

On top of that the same goes for transmissions. I have seen the exact same stuff happen with 240 transmissions because people abuse them.

I am still somewhat skeptical of this being a big problem on top of that consumer reports actually rated the 350Z as a buy in its catagory.

None the less I see that you come from being Toyota brand loyal by your own statements about engines. LOL
Toyota makes a good engine with assistance from Yamaha both 2j's and 3SGTE's are Yamaha head engines.
Nissan makes their own performance engines themselves with no assistance.

Quite honestly they have done well enough with them in racing and general for them to become legendary in their own right. They have also proven to have been overall pretty damn reliable.

The difference here is I recognize Nissan's ability to build a reliable car and engine. Given the numbers I understand there are a few problems from time to time.

The crack up is, Toyota has issues as well but Toyota fans and Toyota does not want to admit it.
Toyota's are not problem free cars either.

Truth be told in large scale manufacturing there is always a quality control issue.

There are always problem, the key is how you handle the situation. On Nissan's part they have been warranting the problems as they come up.

On Toyota's side they hid and denied till faced with it in a cold hard way.
Which is the better company? I would say Nissan for taking care of the issues immediately.


I think your bias in favor of Toyota maybe clouding your Judgement. maybe I am wrong but it does appear that way.

I

As far as loving 240's go I do love mine but things change. You can't expect the same thing forever. Iife is just not that way in anything.

Grow move on and accept it

[drift freaq]

I wanted to say this and then I am pretty much done posting in this thread.

I checked out 240sx's when they were brand new and felt they were dope entry level sports cars at a time when the Z32 had pretty much left its roots behind. It was not the entry level sports car the 240z had been.

I got into 240sx's for that very reason because it was closer to the 240Z than the 300ZX Z32 was.

Now we have come full circle. Both the 350Z and the 370Z come closer to the heritage of the 240Z than any of the 80's and 90's Z's did. They also in fact fill the gap that the 240sx filled in that sense.

I think Nissan see's it that way as well.

People may not recognize that having not owned as many Z's or Nissans as I have but thats the truth in a nutshell.

[kingkilburn]

I truly believe the S13 240SX fastback was intended to be the Z of that era. If they had used the RB as the engine in it no one would have questioned it and this thread would likely not be here.

With the current chassis Nissan is dealing with along with the economy the way it is I don't see them bothering(in their minds) with a true entry level sports coupe. As I said before I think they could do it but they don't have the monetary incentive.

Maybe if the Z came with the GTR's engine they would have would have room for another car.

[lucky7]

Mel, the good news is that there were 2.2 million E30's made world wide. :keke:

[jamanrr]

Mel, the good news is that there were 2.2 million E30's made world wide. :keke:


the bad news is there are less than 29,000 s14s for the the years 95-98 imported into the USA. That is why you see so many s13s cause they brought like 200,000 of those over here.

[SuicidnS13]

well I read the thread and its funny that someone reported the LSX's having the same amount of consumption. Oh and from a mechanical standpoint its not uncommon for engine to run through a quart of oil every 3-4k . Which is what those guys on the forum are reporting.
I also suspect rough break in as being a problem as well. A lot of these guys trash the fuck out of the cars from word go.

On top of that the same goes for transmissions. I have seen the exact same stuff happen with 240 transmissions because people abuse them.

I am still somewhat skeptical of this being a big problem on top of that consumer reports actually rated the 350Z as a buy in its catagory.

None the less I see that you come from being Toyota brand loyal by your own statements about engines. LOL
Toyota makes a good engine with assistance from Yamaha both 2j's and 3SGTE's are Yamaha head engines.
Nissan makes their own performance engines themselves with no assistance.

Quite honestly they have done well enough with them in racing and general for them to become legendary in their own right. They have also proven to have been overall pretty damn reliable.

The difference here is I recognize Nissan's ability to build a reliable car and engine. Given the numbers I understand there are a few problems from time to time.

The crack up is, Toyota has issues as well but Toyota fans and Toyota does not want to admit it.
Toyota's are not problem free cars either.

Truth be told in large scale manufacturing there is always a quality control issue.

There are always problem, the key is how you handle the situation. On Nissan's part they have been warranting the problems as they come up.

On Toyota's side they hid and denied till faced with it in a cold hard way.
Which is the better company? I would say Nissan for taking care of the issues immediately.


I think your bias in favor of Toyota maybe clouding your Judgement. maybe I am wrong but it does appear that way.

I

As far as loving 240's go I do love mine but things change. You can't expect the same thing forever. Iife is just not that way in anything.

Grow move on and accept it

Well put bro....

Although I definately am not biased towards toyota or any other brand. I have built soo many platforms in the last 16 years of building, tracking, draging, drifting and freeway racing that ive come to my own conclusions. My wife and I trail with a huge line of nissans in the recent past as well as 5 240's(KA, SR, RB, 2JZ, S13 ((all bodies)), S14), a J30, 350z, g35, q45. I am just a middle aged guy who has a love for building cars. My opinion comes from my LLLLLOOOONNNGGG track record of building cars of all brands and purposes.

I mean heck Im still trying to sell one more 240(RB S13) as we speak..... It'll probably be replaced with another just in a different confirguration as Ive previously done. Because as a versatile chassis, the S chassis owns them all! And untill something else comes out that I can put any damn engine I so desire too and build into 10000000 different varieties of ways Ill stick to them for my purpose built play cars. Dont mind that Im building another 800whp freeway 2jz powered car, thats just a big thing here in vegas and with the people I roll with.

What everyone here is lookng for is another S chassis... AKA 500.00 shell they can put dollars into and have fun that cars costing 10-100x as much cant even come close to providing.

[Gnnr]

Going aftermarket with the Z is a lot more costly than doing so with a 240sx. I think this is the draw that people want in a "new 240sx" this is also something the 370z doesn't have.

So you think that if a NEW 'Silvia' came out that the parts for it will be cheaper than those for the Z? That they will be around the same price as parts for the S13 and S14? I don't think so.

The reason parts for the S-chassis are so cheap is that its been around for over 20 years. The Z has already been out 7 years, and by the time a NEW 'Silvia' comes out parts would be even cheaper for the Z.

[!Zar!]

Half the people claiming they are Nissan's fans and talking about how Nissan should support them bought their car second hand and Nissan themselves have barely received a cent from said, fans and loyal supporters.

When Porsche came out with the Boxster, Carrera owners were upset that such a cheap version looked like their prized car. So what happens, Porsche tried to differentiate the styling of the Boxster facia so that their LOYAL buyers wouldn't be upset.

I'm pretty sure they would not have done squat if only some 914 owners were crying about how the Boxster looked.

[atom]

It's way different now than when 240's were new though, and that has to do with the production dates of the 240sx and the drift hype or whatever you want to call it. Now drifting is big and 240's are basically the vanilla of drift cars. It's not even just drifting, look at how many people road race 240's now, when hardly anyone did that 15 years ago. Theres a more loyal market there where one didn't exist before when they were new.

I remember when I was in HS I thought about a 240 but ended up getting a 300zx because 240's were so not cool, there was nothing for them back then, and I was too noob to know about all the crap they had in Japan (not that you could even get that stuff back in the day without breaking the bank).

That being said, I don't think Nissan will do it. To bring one out now and not cannibalize Z car sales it would have to be something like 22-24k loaded and I don't think thats gonna happen. Would be nice though.

[lucky7]

the bad news is there are less than 29,000 s14s for the the years 95-98 imported into the USA. That is why you see so many s13s cause they brought like 200,000 of those over here.

that's only bad news if you don't have one but want one. my scenario is quite the opposite. :p

[drift freaq]

Well put bro....

Although I definately am not biased towards toyota or any other brand. I have built soo many platforms in the last 16 years of building, tracking, draging, drifting and freeway racing that ive come to my own conclusions. My wife and I trail with a huge line of nissans in the recent past as well as 5 240's(KA, SR, RB, 2JZ, S13 ((all bodies)), S14), a J30, 350z, g35, q45. I am just a middle aged guy who has a love for building cars. My opinion comes from my LLLLLOOOONNNGGG track record of building cars of all brands and purposes.

I mean heck Im still trying to sell one more 240(RB S13) as we speak..... It'll probably be replaced with another just in a different confirguration as Ive previously done. Because as a versatile chassis, the S chassis owns them all! And untill something else comes out that I can put any damn engine I so desire too and build into 10000000 different varieties of ways Ill stick to them for my purpose built play cars. Dont mind that Im building another 800whp freeway 2jz powered car, thats just a big thing here in vegas and with the people I roll with.

What everyone here is lookng for is another S chassis... AKA 500.00 shell they can put dollars into and have fun that cars costing 10-100x as much cant even come close to providing.

LOL I said was done, but I have to compliment you on this post. I perhaps misjudged you based on some of your previous statements. I too have been around way to long. LOL 5 510's a Roadster, 10 240Z's, Hardbody pickup, Q45, G20,
So many 240sx's I have lost count. Of course a handful of the 240sx's were long term cars.
I too would have to agree on the versatility of the S chassis platform. I would also agree that most people want a cheap build at this time.
Its that same statement that has massive pro's and cons

Pro's
affordable to build
lots of parts
great performance vs dollar input
great handling

Cons
getting to be really old cars lol
getting harder to find chassis's worth working with (i.e. lots of beaters few clean ones)
has turned into being recognized as a High School kids car
getting stolen way too much for the actual value of the cars
Has a bad rep with law enforcement (at least here in Socal LOL)

At this point in time,, at least in my opinion, that though I love the car its gotten long in the tooth given the cons.

Truth be told, if Nissan did bring out a successor? I seriously doubt it would satisfy me.
With 350z's being available all day at 10k and 370's now shifting into the used market as well, why would I bother with a brand new car?

One that would depreciate right off the showroom floor!
One that would obviously be styled down to not detract from Z cars sales.
One that would have less HP than a Z as well.

Like I said earlier the 240sx filled a niche that Nissan was not filling back in the early 90's.
Today they have filled that niche with the 350Z and the 370Z. Given the performance and the capabilities of them, it would be a hard sell to bring something out that would be as impressive.

Hyundai Genesis fans would say the Genesis. Of course it seems it does not hold out as well as claimed and it is bigger and heavier, though no one wants to admit that. IMO

I hold little faith in the FT86 as well given Toyota's history of bringing out heavier than need be sports cars and or them being expensive as well.


I would be more likely to buy a Cube new for a general daily driver. LOL

[Future240]

So you think that if a NEW 'Silvia' came out that the parts for it will be cheaper than those for the Z? That they will be around the same price as parts for the S13 and S14? I don't think so.

The reason parts for the S-chassis are so cheap is that its been around for over 20 years. The Z has already been out 7 years, and by the time a NEW 'Silvia' comes out parts would be even cheaper for the Z.

No I don't expect them to be S13'S14 cheap. However if you took a brand new "Silvia" and a 370Z and did parts, the "silvia's" would be cheaper.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that people who want a new silvia/240 want a new car with bang for buck from the factory with reasonably priced aftermarket parts. The Z stuff that doesn't have to do with the engine is reasonably priced.

However due to the design of the VQ, aftermarket parts for it are not. VQ's are not boost happy. To build one for boosting easy runs 4-5k for just the internals.

If they did build a replacement silvia/240 it should have an engine that would allow for a few simple mods and make power (fmic, boost controller, exhaust) that way you don't have to spend astronomic amounts in order to take them past stock HP.

Think about this, look at the Z32 TT vs the S13 (sr20).

One was a bigger more powerful car that was a bitch to work on and had expensive parts.

The other was a car with an easily accessible bay with less power but lots of potential and less expensive parts.

Some people chose one, some the other. I would say neither was better than the other but that is a matter of opinion. At the end of the day, none of this really matters.

Because Nissan still won't make the damn car so there.



Like I said earlier the 240sx filled a niche that Nissan was not filling back in the early 90's.
Today they have filled that niche with the 350Z and the 370Z. Given the performance and the capabilities of them, it would be a hard sell to bring something out that would be as impressive.

You make a good point. I think people just want a turbo car. lol

[illvialuver]

You know, I am happy with owning an s14, and will never sell it. I love Nissan and that is the only car I will ever buy or own, sure there are a exceptional few others but I think we are forgetting how good of a job Nissan is doing.

Nissan 370z great car, good price, and everyone that says it is over priced are forgetting what the 300zx tt used to cost brand new, and are people who work at minimum wage jobs.

GTR does not need an explanation. Completely changed the super car/ sports car game in general.

New Maxima looks great for a full size four door sedan, so does the new g and m.

And now they are releasing the leaf? A full electric car? When no one else is released it yet.

Unlike Honda and Acura Nissan has not gone full green/ pussy. They still make performance oriented cars, and are releasing sports cars, and cars that are sporty.

Everything Honda releases is green oriented and boring or ugly.

All I am saying is be greatfull, we have what we have it could be worse, and they are doing a good job.Yes I wish they were going to launch a 240sx successor, but if they do not I will still buy their cars.

[SuicidnS13]

LOL I said was done, but I have to compliment you on this post. I perhaps misjudged you based on some of your previous statements. I too have been around way to long. LOL 5 510's a Roadster, 10 240Z's, Hardbody pickup, Q45, G20,
So many 240sx's I have lost count. Of course a handful of the 240sx's were long term cars.
I too would have to agree on the versatility of the S chassis platform. I would also agree that most people want a cheap build at this time.
Its that same statement that has massive pro's and cons

Pro's
affordable to build
lots of parts
great performance vs dollar input
great handling

Cons
getting to be really old cars lol
getting harder to find chassis's worth working with (i.e. lots of beaters few clean ones)
has turned into being recognized as a High School kids car
getting stolen way too much for the actual value of the cars
Has a bad rep with law enforcement (at least here in Socal LOL)

At this point in time,, at least in my opinion, that though I love the car its gotten long in the tooth given the cons.

Truth be told, if Nissan did bring out a successor? I seriously doubt it would satisfy me.
With 350z's being available all day at 10k and 370's now shifting into the used market as well, why would I bother with a brand new car?

One that would depreciate right off the showroom floor!
One that would obviously be styled down to not detract from Z cars sales.
One that would have less HP than a Z as well.

Like I said earlier the 240sx filled a niche that Nissan was not filling back in the early 90's.
Today they have filled that niche with the 350Z and the 370Z. Given the performance and the capabilities of them, it would be a hard sell to bring something out that would be as impressive.

Hyundai Genesis fans would say the Genesis. Of course it seems it does not hold out as well as claimed and it is bigger and heavier, though no one wants to admit that. IMO

I hold little faith in the FT86 as well given Toyota's history of bringing out heavier than need be sports cars and or them being expensive as well.


I would be more likely to buy a Cube new for a general daily driver. LOL

I knew we would see eye to eye at some point. I may only have sub 700 posts on this board but Ive definately been around as long as you. I also agree that the cube is the only new nissan I would actually buy right now. The rest are just so so as far as a total package goes. Its too bad that the 350 and 370z are the only cars to choose from in that class and price league.

[SuicidnS13]

You know, I am happy with owning an s14, and will never sell it. I love Nissan and that is the only car I will ever buy or own, sure there are a exceptional few others but I think we are forgetting how good of a job Nissan is doing.

Nissan 370z great car, good price, and everyone that says it is over priced are forgetting what the 300zx tt used to cost brand new, and are people who work at minimum wage jobs.

GTR does not need an explanation. Completely changed the super car/ sports car game in general.

New Maxima looks great for a full size four door sedan, so does the new g and m.

And now they are releasing the leaf? A full electric car? When no one else is released it yet.

Unlike Honda and Acura Nissan has not gone full green/ pussy. They still make performance oriented cars, and are releasing sports cars, and cars that are sporty.

Everything Honda releases is green oriented and boring or ugly.

All I am saying is be greatfull, we have what we have it could be worse, and they are doing a good job.Yes I wish they were going to launch a 240sx successor, but if they do not I will still buy their cars.


Never say never bro... Were talking about a 240sx here, not a 69 Camaro SS or another limited production vehicle. I mean you can replace a 240sx with less effort than your typical fart.

[TheWolf]

Zar has said it a million times over. They make it.

No one makes a 2900lb cheap car that gets good crash test ratings and has abs and 7 air bags. Steel is cheap. Use alot of it to get strength at the expense of weight.

[lou's40sx]

I think that the era of performance cars are over in the eyes of the manufacturers. If you think about it, crude oil / gasoline will be obsolete within the next 50 years or so as the Discovery Channel has informed me and common sense of the laws of the scacity determinds that all raw materials will run out eventually.

It is about profit and Nissan as well as other manufactures don't care about the 240sx community because the high MPG and eco friendly tree hugging save the whales community is tens and hundreds of times larger than we are, and those people will dish out money (Unlike) the broke ass 240sx under 25 years old demographics.

I think that Nissan made a lot of mistakes then and now.

1. The 350z and 370z should have been a Retro-Modern redesigned of the old school 240z. Like how Ford and chevy came back with their flagship Mustangs and Camaros which looks badass and brought back new and old fans.

2. If Scion made a RWD platform TC, with the same specs and quality build and fuel economy, they would have sold 2 to 5 times more. Since it is a cool ass economical and reliable car, and if it was RWD platform, the drift market would be booming.

Nissan and other companies don't do what we want because they have a different view, the vantage point of making $$$$$ and satisfying a large sector of buyers. If they came back with the 2011 240sx, starting at $18-21K many of us still can't afoord it, and pray that we could find a used one in 2015 (And by then we'd all be dead according to the movie 2012).

**In addition, OBD2 cars suck anyway. The 2010 240sx will have back up cameras, tire pressure sensors, traction control, heated seats, cooling seats, Ipad connections, and 100 useless sensors. It will come to the point where you can't even modify your 240sx and it's not fun anymore. And if they come out with a 2.6L N/A like our KA's, what will we drop in it? SR? VQ? I don't even like the idea at all to be honest.

[kingkilburn]

Nissan does not need to look back to have success they just need to be aware of it.



There is no reason a new S chassis would have to be any of what you stated. The Miata seems to get by fine with out any of that and that is very close to what we are looking for in a new S.

[exitspeed]

Nissan does not need to look back to have success.



There is no reason a new S chassis would have to be any of what you stated. The Miata seems to get by fine with out any of that and that is very close to what we are looking for in a new S.

The Miata would be perfect to me...if it had a small backseat and a fixed roof.

[lou's40sx]

We haven't had a S chassis in the states since 1998. That's 12 years ago. The miata has been more consistent and all had the 1.8L platform.

I guess the question is if the S chassis comes back, would you pay $20k+ for a 2.4KA again. Nissan would have to do something interesting, but it hasn't happen for the last 12 years, and I am not sure it's gonna come back.

Like the Toyota Supra, there were prototypes but the market and the new scheme of marketing doesn't look good for the S chassis.

Miata's are good in terms of price and handling, but they will always be girly cars IMP. S2000 is a little manlier. Can't really see me driving a Miata with a male friend in the passenger seat, top down, with SPF 15 on our noses driving to Malibu beach. I just can't do it.

[kingkilburn]

I would be happy with a fixed roof and a bigger engine. Ideally it would have a little bit longer of a wheel base as well.


EDIT
I see the miata purely as what it is not as it's stereotype. The same goes for all small drop tops. Can you imagine people calling a Cobra girly simple because it is small and has no roof.

[!Zar!]

Then buy a genesis.

Or buy a 370z and pull two of the injectors since you don't want power.

[kingkilburn]

What did that add to the discussion?

Clearly you and exitspeed don't see eye to eye. Who many times do you need to say it?

[lou's40sx]

Why don't we forget about petitioning to Nissan and just write to "Great Wall" and "Cherry" which are the Chinese car maufacturers!

We can get all we want and a great deal! It's more likely to exist than convincing Nissan. Chinese manufacturers love people like us, Nissan Manufacturer and American companies in general don't give a damn about us.

Dear Mr. Chinese car manufacturers,

Ni hao! We would like a super car. So fast! So nice! You don't believe!

1. 5 Rug convertions
2. Viskious of LSD
3. 2.6L Inline 4 cylinder T25 turbo charger. / SE Package2.6 Inline 4 cylinder T3/T4 high model
4. 16" stock alloy
5. RWD
6. 5 Speed standard. 6 speed SE package
7. Bestest Chinese HID fit installed.

All this under $10,000 USD. We will take 100,000 units. Please send us your Paypal!

Fank you.

Zilvia.

[!Zar!]

That sums up partially how I feel right there.


What did that add to the discussion?

Clearly you and exitspeed don't see eye to eye. Who many times do you need to say it?
I just want to know how does one expect nissan to make a s-chassis in current times with modern technology to be cheap enough so that it doesn't rival the 370z? Building a rear wheel drive car adds to cost. Just look at the civic, it is around what, $25k?

So lets say a 240 is sold for the same price, that would place it within $5k of the 370z. That would cut into their own sales.

From a business standpoint that wouldn't be a good idea.

Now if you all want a Scion esque car, maybe if Nissan made an American version of the Suzuki Cappachino, then you might be on to something.

I'm not against a new S-chassis. I just don't see how it has a place in modern day.

I'd imagine a remake of a dime more so than a s-chassis.

[exitspeed]

Zar, I don't have all the answers. I just know what I want. And it ain't out there. The Genesis is close but too heavy. Nissan has FAR better engineering capabilities then Hyundai right now (although they've made huge strides) so I don't see why they can't. I mean the Urge (whether you liked that concept or not is not the question) was based off of a shortened FM platform, they have plenty of better NA engines they can use including a detuned 220hp VQ if they wanted.

And there are PENTY of cars in Nissan's line-up that cut into each others sales. The Altima cuts HUGELY into Maxima sales. And the Maxima cuts into G37 sales for those that don't know any better. Anyone who buys a new Maxima is a dumb fuck if you ask me. And I actually like the car. It's just wrong and too expensive.

Fit sales cut into Civic sales.

Murano sales cut into FX sales.

Malibu cuts into Impala sales.

Rav-4's cut into Highlander sales.

3 Series cut into 5 Series sales.

I could go on and on and on. My point is there's room if they stop being so passive.

If they made the car 100hp less, so 220-232, and 2900lbs (370z is only like 3200lbs), have a back seat, and priced at $21k, median price $25k and topping out at $28k loaded for all the schmucks there's still plenty to separate it price wise, power-wise, and feature-wise from the Z and they can live harmoniously together.

[Gnnr]

Miata's are good in terms of price and handling, but they will always be girly cars IMP. S2000 is a little manlier. Can't really see me driving a Miata with a male friend in the passenger seat, top down, with SPF 15 on our noses driving to Malibu beach. I just can't do it.

Those are ROADSTERS. If we wanted a roadster we'd be arguing about Nissan reviving the Datsun 1600 roadster or something.

[kingkilburn]

Cut a few feet out, strip down the features(meaning none), drop in a smaller engine and the G35 could be a new S chassis.

You do want some overlap in your product line. Any gap is a place for your competition to sneak in.

[jamanrr]

Cut a few feet out, strip down the features(meaning none), drop in a smaller engine and the G35 could be a new S chassis.

You do want some overlap in your product line. Any gap is a place for your competition to sneak in.


this it only makes sense if they release it and the infinity model at the same time. Make it a 1 series competitor at a cheaper price point and you have a winner.

Nissan 240sx probably using the universal Silvia name or 200sx
Infinity could use the S from the chassis or any other letter they see fit

it would be a winner and I would buy one.

[kingkilburn]

Given the income I would as well.

If they don't do something like that soon Zilvia will see me rolling in a used G35 coupe.

[jspecusa]

you know a company is losing it's ground when
they start making cars that perform worst and is following the trend instead
of being the trend leader.
Z32 is a great car, just too heavy and ugh T-Tops, then the build one the same
Z33, but N/A engine instead with less interior room.
Nissan should get clues from Mazda for performance,
the FD is still one of the best handling stock car for that price range and
it was engineered in 1990.
as for trend, it took almost 10 years for Nissan to bring in the Cube
which is after everyone make a fortune making Scions and Fits.
Can't really blame Nissan really, cuz Nissan USA is not really Nissan Japan.
I don't see why they can't make a S16 for cheap since they already have all the tooling
for subframe/suspension from 1988 to 2001 s chasis, throw in a light weight aluminum 4 banger and you got a fun car again.
Then again it'll probably kill the Z34 market.
Anyway, I was offered a used R35 for cheap and I didn't even want it,
that's how bad Nissan has became.
Cheerios,

Sam

[kingkilburn]

Why would nissan use literally the same equipment that was in the S chassis 20 years ago for a car that would likely be an FM platform car?

[Gnnr]

this it only makes sense if they release it and the infinity model at the same time. Make it a 1 series competitor at a cheaper price point and you have a winner.

Nissan 240sx probably using the universal Silvia name or 200sx
Infinity could use the S from the chassis or any other letter they see fit

it would be a winner and I would buy one.

FINALLY!

We're getting somewhere here. This is a much better argument. I can totally see something in the Infiniti line right below the G37 to compete against the 1 series and Audi A3.

Infiniti G37 Base $36,050

BMW 1 Series $29,150
Audi A3 $27,700

They can join Lexus which already has a car coming for this market

Lexus officially confirms CT 200h for U.S. market - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/22/lexus-officially-confirms-ct-200h-for-u-s-market/)

[jspecusa]

Why would nissan use literally the same equipment that was in the S chassis 20 years ago for a car that would likely be an FM platform car?

when it comes to manufacturing process, the expensive part is the tooling and R&D.
if you already have a proven setup all you need to do is find the flaws and improve it, IE S13 Chasis/suspension vs S14/S15 Chasis/suspension.
all they need to do is stiffen up the S14/S15 chasis more, lighten up the suspension parts and make a different exterior/interior and you have a s16 250sx.

[kingkilburn]

If that was the best route why design and build the FM platform to begin with?

People need to face the reality that the OG S chassis is long dead and Nissan isn't bringing it back. It was a massive break from the norm that the fastback S13 was brought back in Japan and I would never expect to see anything close to that again in my lifetime.

[lou's40sx]

Major desireable and affordable FR's at the moment:

1. S13 (Nissan)
2. FC3S (Mazda)
3. AE86 (Toyota)

You will never see this again. Toyota went "Green". Mazda is pretty much Ford so their done (And why are the new mazdas look so happy with their smirking front ends?) And Nissan messed up. Nissan should have not sold out and kept their theme guided towards performance. They even sold out and made a hybrid Altima with a toyota motor a year or two back, to satisfy the whale lovers market.

Nissan F*** up when they made the Sentra =200sx. They totally killed the SX name there.

If I was Supreme president owner of Nissan:

1. Z = 240z, 260z, 280z, 300z, 360z, 400Z-TR
2. SX = 180sx, 200sx, 240sx, 260sx.
3. Silvia= Silvia's sister, Moniqua, Shantay, Angelina.

350z and 370z are dumb names! 240, 260, 280, 300, you have increments of 20, why mess it up! 350 wtf????? 360Z is perfect. Like in 360* degrees super drift spin.

Nissan does some dumb stuff. And don't get me started with "NISMO".

[kingkilburn]

Do you not get where the numbers are coming from?

Here is a hint: displacement.

[Omarius Maximus]

I don't know what kind of crack you guys are smoking but a mid nineties 240sx SE was a fucking expensive car. Adjust for inflation and I wouldn't be surprised if it was more expensive than the Z34.

In that regards, it wouldn't be a stretch to consider the G37 the torch bearer for the 240sx...it continues the heritage of being a secretary's car while being at the same price point.

If Nissan did build an S16...it would have to be a lame ass FM platform car. Nowadays, the only people making bespoke chassis cars are Porsche. So expect a 3300lb curb weight and a lame QR engine. Pretty much on the same scale of mediocrity as the Genesis coupe. No thanks.

People need to realize that a bespoke chassis S16 that weighs less than 3k even with a lowly 150hp KA motor will still cost about as much as a Z34. The costs of production can't be spread over to all of Nissan's other models.

Why do you think cars have gotten so much cheaper, while performance keeps increasing? Because the underpinnings of every car are practically the same at Nissan. Your SUV and your 2 seat roadster are on the same chassis family. They both use the same stinking engine too. It's the only way to be profitable. The only problem with the platform sharing school of thought is that your SUV and sportscar will weigh nearly the same.

[exitspeed]

this it only makes sense if they release it and the infinity model at the same time. Make it a 1 series competitor at a cheaper price point and you have a winner.

Nissan 240sx probably using the universal Silvia name or 200sx
Infinity could use the S from the chassis or any other letter they see fit

it would be a winner and I would buy one.

FINALLY!

We're getting somewhere here. This is a much better argument. I can totally see something in the Infiniti line right below the G37 to compete against the 1 series and Audi A3.

Infiniti G37 Base $36,050

BMW 1 Series $29,150
Audi A3 $27,700

They can join Lexus which already has a car coming for this market

Lexus officially confirms CT 200h for U.S. market - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/22/lexus-officially-confirms-ct-200h-for-u-s-market/)

I
ve been saying this for years in the RWD thread. I'd actually be more willing to buy the Infiniti version. I also mentioned previously they could make a new G20 (or whatever they call it) off of the same platform.

I don't know what kind of crack you guys are smoking but a mid nineties 240sx SE was a fucking expensive car. Adjust for inflation and I wouldn't be surprised if it was more expensive than the Z34.

In that regards, it wouldn't be a stretch to consider the G37 the torch bearer for the 240sx...it continues the heritage of being a secretary's car while being at the same price point.

If Nissan did build an S16...it would have to be a lame ass FM platform car. Nowadays, the only people making bespoke chassis cars are Porsche. So expect a 3300lb curb weight and a lame QR engine. Pretty much on the same scale of mediocrity as the Genesis coupe. No thanks.

People need to realize that a bespoke chassis S16 that weighs less than 3k even with a lowly 150hp KA motor will still cost about as much as a Z34. The costs of production can't be spread over to all of Nissan's other models.

Why do you think cars have gotten so much cheaper, while performance keeps increasing? Because the underpinnings of every car are practically the same at Nissan. Your SUV and your 2 seat roadster are on the same chassis family. They both use the same stinking engine too. It's the only way to be profitable. The only problem with the platform sharing school of thought is that your SUV and sportscar will weigh nearly the same.

Of course you have to adjust for inflation. But cars are better and cheaper today. That's why the 370z isn't $50k. So you can't say because a 240 was expensive back in the 90
s it would be now. If you figure the cost of the 300ZX TT compared to a 370z now and take that same rate for a new SX the thing would easily being the low to mid $20's. All those awesome cars in the 90's sat on lots because they were expensive. The reason the G35/7 and 350/370 have sold so well is because they are actually affordable. The same would be said for a new SX.

And guys don't forgot as much as we like to think we would be the target demographic for the car, we aren't. It would be targeted at the same people it was originally and the same people cars like the Altima Coupe, Eclipse coupe are targeted at now...women. You can't base the success of a new SX off of the 240 community because we would only be a small percentage of sales.

[Omarius Maximus]

But that's entirely the point. Cars are cheaper and better today because of the extensive platform sharing. If you want it cheap, it won't be bespoke. And if it's not bespoke, it'll be FM. And if it's FM, it'll be heavy.

Not only that, but they aren't going to engineer an engine from scratch for it. So it'll get a VQ if your lucky, and QR if you're not.

And so you'll end up with a 2+2 3400lb car with a detuned VQ being sold at an Altima Coupe price point when the target buyer can't even tell the difference between the two.

There is no market for a legitimate 240sx.

You need a small, light, individual/bespoke chassis made specifically for a sportscar to get it under 3k weight.

You want a turbo 4 when all Nissan produces nowadays is the VQ. More development dollars.

If they went ahead and made the ideal 240, they'd have to price it into Audi S5 territory to get the development costs back.

[WanganRunner]

350z and 370z are dumb names! 240, 260, 280, 300, you have increments of 20, why mess it up! 350 wtf????? 360Z is perfect. Like in 360* degrees super drift spin.

^^
I hope to hell this is a troll.

[exitspeed]

But that's entirely the point. Cars are cheaper and better today because of the extensive platform sharing. If you want it cheap, it won't be bespoke. And if it's not bespoke, it'll be FM. And if it's FM, it'll be heavy.

Not only that, but they aren't going to engineer an engine from scratch for it. So it'll get a VQ if your lucky, and QR if you're not.

And so you'll end up with a 2+2 3400lb car with a detuned VQ being sold at an Altima Coupe price point when the target buyer can't even tell the difference between the two.

There is no market for a legitimate 240sx.

You need a small, light, individual/bespoke chassis made specifically for a sportscar to get it under 3k weight.

You want a turbo 4 when all Nissan produces nowadays is the VQ. More development dollars.

If they went ahead and made the ideal 240, they'd have to price it into Audi S5 territory to get the development costs back.


How would a shortened FM car with a smaller engine weigh more?

And you can't factually say there isn't a market for the car any more then I can say there is.

[!Zar!]

What engine would it be?

[drift freaq]

I
ve been saying this for years in the RWD thread. I'd actually be more willing to buy the Infiniti version. I also mentioned previously they could make a new G20 (or whatever they call it) off of the same platform.



Of course you have to adjust for inflation. But cars are better and cheaper today. That's why the 370z isn't $50k. So you can't say because a 240 was expensive back in the 90
s it would be now. If you figure the cost of the 300ZX TT compared to a 370z now and take that same rate for a new SX the thing would easily being the low to mid $20's. All those awesome cars in the 90's sat on lots because they were expensive. The reason the G35/7 and 350/370 have sold so well is because they are actually affordable. The same would be said for a new SX.

And guys don't forgot as much as we like to think we would be the target demographic for the car, we aren't. It would be targeted at the same people it was originally and the same people cars like the Altima Coupe, Eclipse coupe are targeted at now...women. You can't base the success of a new SX off of the 240 community because we would only be a small percentage of sales.

Well Mel I tip my hat to this post. Everything you wrote above is correct and the most non passionate post you have made in this thread. Not to say one should not have passion, but you did open the thread up with an angry rant. LOL

Fact is of course the person running Nissan's Facebook page is not going to pay attention to Lennon or even get annoyed by him. Nothing towards Lennon but the fact is Nissan's Facebook page is lip service to the Facebook generation and like I said before does not most likely represent real corp decision at NIssan.

Fact is true there is more room in the Infinite line to put in a 240sx range car. When Nissan replaced the Primera/G20 with the then G35 they left a gap. Not only that but G20's were underrated and overshadowed because of their 6 cylinder competition, IS300, 3 series, Audi's even though Audi did have 4 cylinders in the lineup.

As far as anyone saying NIssan is going downhill or terrible they speak with extreme bias in my opinion. Current Nissan's are not bad. Plus Nissan's has done quite well through this recession economically., compared to their competitors, I have watched it.

Anyone who say they have not really does not follow the market and possibly speaks out of their own perception without following the economic numbers.

[sephiroth99]

You want a turbo 4 when all Nissan produces nowadays is the VQ. More development dollars.

new turbo engine from Nissan, the MR16DDT which will be on the Juke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_MR_engine#MR16DDT

I think it would be a good choice :confused:

[Gnnr]

Give me the 2.0L Turbo F4RT (fart, lol) out of the Renault Megane RS Sport

Renault F-Type engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_F-Type_engine#F4x)

[exitspeed]

Well Mel I tip my hat to this post. Everything you wrote above is correct and the most non passionate post you have made in this thread. Not to say one should not have passion, but you did open the thread up with an angry rant. LOL

Fact is of course the person running Nissan's Facebook page is not going to pay attention to Lennon or even get annoyed by him. Nothing towards Lennon but the fact is Nissan's Facebook page is lip service to the Facebook generation and like I said before does not most likely represent real corp decision at NIssan.

Fact is true there is more room in the Infinite line to put in a 240sx range car. When Nissan replaced the Primera/G20 with the then G35 they left a gap. Not only that but G20's were underrated and overshadowed because of their 6 cylinder competition, IS300, 3 series, Audi's even though Audi did have 4 cylinders in the lineup.

As far as anyone saying NIssan is going downhill or terrible they speak with extreme bias in my opinion. Current Nissan's are not bad. Plus Nissan's has done quite well through this recession economically., compared to their competitors, I have watched it.

Anyone who say they have not really does not follow the market and possibly speaks out of their own perception without following the economic numbers.

Thanks. I'm really passionate about a lot of things and sometimes it just takes me a while to get out what I'm really trying to say.

Yes Nissan is doing quit well right now.

What engine would it be?

new turbo engine from Nissan, the MR16DDT which will be on the Juke

Nissan MR engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_MR_engine#MR16DDT)

I think it would be a good choice :confused:

Give me the 2.0L Turbo F4RT (fart, lol) out of the Renault Megane RS Sport

Renault F-Type engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_F-Type_engine#F4x)

Anyone of those. Or how about a detuned low displacement VQ? Like a VQ25 or VQ30? I think it's pretty ignorant to think that Nissan doesn't have SOME engine they can use. Heck I read the the VQ can be tuned from like 180hp on up to over 500 right from Nissan. I'm sure they have that capability with one of their 4 cyl engines as well.

I'd also like add a point regarding weight. Nissan announced (http://green.autoblog.com/2008/01/07/nissan-going-for-a-lightweight-strategy-looks-for-15-percent-re/)like 3 years ago (I've posted this on here numerous times) that they plan on reducing weight in cars by 15% by 2015. It's already happened with the 370z, Maxima, and even the current gen Altima, which will no doubt see even more weight shed on the next gen due soon. So if the 370z has a curb weight of 3200lbs how is it so hard to believe they could make a smaller car on the FM platform with their weight reduction goals in mind come in at 2800-2900lbs? It's really not if you think about it.

Let me ALSO add Nissan's new partnership with Daimler. While I don't agree with the partnership personally, there are some things that Nissan can certainly benefit from. For instance MB insistence on forced induction engines going into the future.

[atom]

VQ25DET that used to be on the stagea would be awesome for a model right below the Z. Same basic engine as a Z (parts interchangability to some extent so Nissan doesn't have to support an entirely new engine), lower displacement, turbo. It might actually make too much power though at 270-280HP.

[exitspeed]

VQ25DET that used to be on the stagea would be awesome for a model right below the Z. Same basic engine as a Z (parts interchangability to some extent so Nissan doesn't have to support an entirely new engine), lower displacement, turbo. It might actually make too much power though at 270-280HP.

I'm sure they could detune that to 220hp and meet our emission standards.

Another thing to consider is the MPG the car will get and what effect that will have on Nissan's CAFE rating. Everyone wants to build smaller cars because it helps them be able to build cars that are bigger and more powerful. It's easy to think a car like this could get 30+ mpg.

[lucky7]

i honestly would be more excited to hear news about alfa coming back to the US with the current fiat/chrysler merger.

[exitspeed]

i honestly would be more excited to hear news about alfa coming back to the US with the current fiat/chrysler merger.

They already said that was the plan. It just depends on if Chrysler can survive long enough for it to actually happen. But they are supposedly doing pretty good right now (I can't imagine how) so who knows.

[lucky7]

shit. give me a small rwd sports car with 6 cylinders that says alfa on it, i'm game. :D

in other news, when are you gonna be in town? PM me sukka. looking forward to burning detroit to the ground.

[Omarius Maximus]

How would a shortened FM car with a smaller engine weigh more?

And you can't factually say there isn't a market for the car any more then I can say there is.

The FM would actually have to be lengthened. The Z34 has a really short wheelbase to get to 3200-3300lbs. If you're making a 2+2, you'll have to take into account rear passengers. Not only that, but if you're building to a smaller budget, a lot of the aluminum that's in the 370 will have to ditched for steel.
Things like the front aluminum subframe, aluminum engine cradle, aluminum door panels, aluminum hood, and aluminum hatch. Real world, an FM RWD 2+2 on a budget it going to weigh at least 3400lbs when employing a VQ.

[exitspeed]

shit. give me a small rwd sports car with 6 cylinders that says alfa on it, i'm game. :D

in other news, when are you gonna be in town? PM me sukka. looking forward to burning detroit to the ground.

I'm thikng Sept. I'll let you know as soon as we come up with a date.

[fishhouse]

who cares?

[kingkilburn]

I would rather it not be a 2+2. Who wants a useless backseat?

Not this guy.

[S14DB]

2+2 is mostly an insurance thing. Technically a 4 seat but letting you know you won't be using the back 2.

I'll take a useless back seat to throw crap on and discount my insurance.

[mrflip69]

Can that many people NOT fit in the back seat? It's not even super uncomfortable either--I just need to hunch my head or slouch and it's not that bad.

[kingkilburn]

I would never ride in my backseat for more than a few minutes at a time.

[Future240]

^Ditto. Backseat sucks.

I don't allow people to sit behind me. If they want to ride in the backseat they have to sit behind the passenger. I am not going to be driving all up on the steering wheel.

[ronmcdon]

I don't mind useless backseats.
like mentioned prior, I can throw more trash in the car.
it's inconvenient otherwise
(had a miata before so I speak from experience)

[kingkilburn]

Not having a backseat isn't a problem with a fastback.

[exitspeed]

Not having a backseat isn't a problem with a fastback.

That's one of the things I liked about having a backseat that folded down and a hatch. Shit was like a truck bed.

[Bricksquad1017]

they might make another 240 if evryone that wanted it could afford it because the only people that want to see another 240 is 17-25 yearolds

[exitspeed]

they might make another 240 if evryone that wanted it could afford it because the only people that want to see another 240 is 17-25 yearolds

I'm 30 and want one and can afford one. Therefore your statement is false. They don't care about selling cars to 17 year olds. No offense.

[blasting_speed]

I wasn't driving when the 240SX first came out, but were these cars popular among enthusiasts???

[Bricksquad1017]

I'm 30 and want one and can afford one. Therefore your statement is false. They don't care about selling cars to 17 year olds. No offense.

tru but how many 30 yearolds are there that want it

[exitspeed]

I wasn't driving when the 240SX first came out, but were these cars popular among enthusiasts???

Ahhh, no. Not at all. If you were modding a 240 when they came out more then likely you were doing stuff like custom stereo enclosures and really really gay rims. And if you were ahead of your time a Xenon ground effects kit. lol. There's some guys on here that can elaborate on that more that were modding 240's when they came out. But that's pretty much the consensus.

tru but how many 30 year olds are there that want it

That I don't know. But I know a few people around my age that have been waiting for a new 240 for some time that can afford them. I don't have statistics though obviously.

[blasting_speed]

Ahhh, no. Not at all. If you were modding a 240 when they came out more then likely you were doing stuff like custom stereo enclosures and really really gay rims. And if you were ahead of your time a Xenon ground effects kit. lol. There's some guys on here that can elaborate on that more that were modding 240's when they came out. But that's pretty much the consensus.



Is this what's happening with the Z and the G cars Nissan is producing???

[exitspeed]

Is this what's happening with the Z and the G cars Nissan is producing???

Noooooo, not even close. You'd have to be around the scene in the mid to late 90's to understand what was going on. It was just a lot different. The Z/G have HUGE support compared to the 240 stateside back then.

[codyace]

The only way I'd realistically look a cheap rwd fun nissan:

Under 25k
Under 3000 lbs
At least 250/300 hp

I look at similar cars, persay, the Solstice GXP (which make 300 ft lbs on stock stage 2 flashes), and they were under 3000 lbs, but MSRP' at 30k too. Even they didn't sell that well (the hot rod version).

To me, it would neat to be 5k-10k less than a Z car in order to be worth while - and the trouble is, for what I want in the car, it would end up being on par with the Z performance wise...and I just can't see Nissan doing that.

[!Zar!]

They don't care about selling cars to 17 year olds. No offense.

And that's why they haven't remade the 240sx.

el-oh-el. I made a funny.

[kingkilburn]

They don't care about selling cars to 17 year olds. No offense.


That is why you market it towards middle aged men. They want the same things but can now afford to get them.

[mrmephistopheles]

That is why you market it towards middle aged men. They want the same things but can now afford to get them.

That's what the Z is for.

[kingkilburn]

You got me there.

I guess we should have seen the writing on the wall after the Altima coupe came out. That is the exact segment the an SX would fall in.

[upsdude]

I wasn't driving when the 240SX first came out, but were these cars popular among enthusiasts???

no they weren't compared to honda-it was all about the hondas in the '90s...namely the civics and 'tegs. there were supras, rx-7's, and the preludes but they were more expensive.

nissan had the 200sx to compete with the civic, and i believe the 240sx was in the price range of the preludes (i'm trying to remember my h.s. days).

I guess we should have seen the writing on the wall after the Altima coupe came out. That is the exact segment the an SX would fall in.

i mentioned that in an earlier post. altima coupe comes in either the the 2.5s (175hp) or the 3.5sr (270hp v6). they start at just over 23k up to 27k. I think the coupe looks nice; the lines remind me of the G. i mean technically all nissan would have to do is change it from fwd to rwd and we have the sx replacement...but realisically like drift freaq said, most people don't notice that part.

[kingkilburn]

Maybe we can hope for a change to the FM platform at the end of the current Altima generation.

[exitspeed]

The only way I'd realistically look a cheap rwd fun nissan:

Under 25k
Under 3000 lbs
At least 250/300 hp

I look at similar cars, persay, the Solstice GXP (which make 300 ft lbs on stock stage 2 flashes), and they were under 3000 lbs, but MSRP' at 30k too. Even they didn't sell that well (the hot rod version).

To me, it would neat to be 5k-10k less than a Z car in order to be worth while - and the trouble is, for what I want in the car, it would end up being on par with the Z performance wise...and I just can't see Nissan doing that.

In the defense of the Solstice and Sky they were released at the worst possible time. And GM did a great job IMO on their first attempt a roadster it still didn't really compete with a Miata. The interiors were lolable. And the price was also higher because they were roadsters. If they would have made them as coupes to begin with they wuld have been less. And you could get into one of those cars for $25,000. One of my goals before I die is to a acquire a Solstice Coupe GXP 6 speed. I LOVE that car bu they are uber rare now.

And that's why they haven't remade the 240sx.

el-oh-el. I made a funny.

That is why you market it towards middle aged men. They want the same things but can now afford to get them.

That's what the Z is for.

Bingo.

Again I'll add they would market it towards women just like all coupes on the market. It would be no different. But it would have a built in fanbase of early 20's to early 30's enthusiasts.

[upsdude]

well i guess there's nothing left to do at this point but wait and see what happens...in the mean time save up for the yota :)

[exitspeed]

well i guess there's nothing left to do at this point but wait and see what happens...in the mean time save up for the yota :)

That's pretty much my plan. If the FT86 comes out in 2012 I'll be buying one. If Nissan has something decent in store that they actually TELL us about then I'll hold off.

[98s14inaz]

The Hyundai and Toyobaru argument/analogy is way off. Toyota and hyundai didn't have a Z type car or even a GTR type super car. These two cars (genesis/toyobaru) fill a niche both companies needed badly. The genesis is the beginning of Hyundai being taken seriously. Toyota needs something cool after the supra went away.

Whoever posted that a 240sx type car in Nissan's line up would hurt the Z and GTR sales badly is right. The niche is filled for Nissan. They'd never ditch the Z and we waited for the GTR for way too long. The next 240sx is never going to happen.

Personally, I like my 89 with sr. Fast, light, and passes emissions easily (at least for me in AZ). Electronics are cake...there really aren't that many. No electronic driving nannies. If only we could stop retards from buying and ruining these things for the rest of us.

[exitspeed]

The Hyundai and Toyobaru argument/analogy is way off. Toyota and hyundai didn't have a Z type car or even a GTR type super car. These two cars (genesis/toyobaru) fill a niche both companies needed badly. The genesis is the beginning of Hyundai being taken seriously. Toyota needs something cool after the supra went away.

Whoever posted that a 240sx type car in Nissan's line up would hurt the Z and GTR sales badly is right. The niche is filled for Nissan. They'd never ditch the Z and we waited for the GTR for way too long. The next 240sx is never going to happen.

Personally, I like my 89 with sr. Fast, light, and passes emissions easily (at least for me in AZ). Electronics are cake...there really aren't that many. No electronic driving nannies. If only we could stop retards from buying and ruining these things for the rest of us.

How the fuck would a $22,000 car hurt a $70,000 car? That doesn't even make any sense. The GTR would actually help sell a new SX.

[Future240]

^Yeap.


"From the makers of the GTR comes the new ....."

That may sound like a weak line, buy it's used all the time in movies. People will buy a company's other products if a company makes a product that is exceptional.

It makes sense to think like that.
Some buyers would be thinking.
"If they can make this one really good car that is lots of bang for the buck then why not the same for other cars?"

[codyace]

In the defense of the Solstice and Sky they were released at the worst possible time. And GM did a great job IMO on their first attempt a roadster it still didn't really compete with a Miata. The interiors were lolable. And the price was also higher because they were roadsters. If they would have made them as coupes to begin with they wuld have been less. And you could get into one of those cars for $25,000. One of my goals before I die is to a acquire a Solstice Coupe GXP 6 speed. I LOVE that car bu they are uber rare now.

Heheh They are pretty sweet cars, I too am a fan of them. I just hated the price point where they came out...Imagine that car sub 25k...it woulda been fantastic!

[Gnnr]

Maybe we can hope for a change to the FM platform at the end of the current Altima generation.

That's what I'm thinking. I don't think it will happen under the Nissan badge untill the Altima coupe is gone and the FM platform is replaced by its successor (whatever thats going to be).

[!Zar!]

Most adults don't even know what a GTR is.

Fact

[jomz]

Nissan is stupid. I love their products, but the actual company is dumber than shit. I will never buy another brand new Nissan/Infiniti product ever again.

this guy-======

[keeeban]

How the fuck would a $22,000 car hurt a $70,000 car? That doesn't even make any sense. The GTR would actually help sell a new SX.
Yeah I agree.. I don't see a new vehicle in the 20ks hurting the GTR's sales. In my opinion, people would look at the GTR, see the price, then look at the SX and think twice. Of course this is what I believe.. same with many people I know. Just depends on how the new SX (if they ever decide to make one) looks and performs.

If they do make a new SX, and it actually looks decent inside and out, carries a decent engine (a VQ would be nice, heh), I would consider purchasing one.

..If not, I'll stick with my plan for a 370Z later in the future.

[kingkilburn]

Do you seriously think a car at the level of a Porsche 911 GT3 gets cross shopped with something the caliber of a Miata?

[exitspeed]

Do you seriously think a car at the level of a Porsche 911 GT3 gets cross shopped with something the caliber of a Miata?

Seriously the fact that someone said that boggles my mind.

[exitspeed]

There's no reason Nissan cano't put this 2.5 VQ in a new 240 with that much HP. Or hell even a smaller sub G sedan. This is why I think the argument of "what engine" doesn't hold water.

2011 Infiniti G25 hits dealers... in China — Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/15/2011-infiniti-g25-hits-dealers-in-china/)

[Future240]

Drop the compression toss a turbo boosting 7 psi. Tune it to around th 220-250 mark and boom perfect engine.

Offer base model with NA premium with Turbo.

If Nissan wanted to build this car, they would. 216a here I come.

[!Zar!]

I hope they remake 240's.

I hope they make 1 billion of them.

[exitspeed]

I must have missed the day u turned into such a negative Melly.

[naibaf]

So there is no new 240 planned? :(

Gotta say I think the altima coupe looks pretty sexy, but the front wheel drive kills it big time.

[axiomatik]

There's just not enough room below the Z for a new 240. You will have to buy a used Z or shop another brand that doesn't have a car like the Z so close in price/performance

[DALAZ_68]

Gotta say I think the altima coupe looks pretty sexy, but the front wheel drive kills it big time.

i love the look of the altima so much ive dropped my thoughts about buying a 370 and just getting the altima...its just that much more comfortable to me...

and since when has RWD been so goddy... jesus fucken christ...drifting isnt the only fucken car sport out there...not everyone that drives an s-chassis drifts...

and not everyone needs to go 90 on the freeway...

[Future240]

http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg

Just saying

[kingkilburn]

Some of us just don't like the feel of FWD.

[naibaf]

i love the look of the altima so much ive dropped my thoughts about buying a 370 and just getting the altima...its just that much more comfortable to me...

and since when has RWD been so goddy... jesus fucken christ...drifting isnt the only fucken car sport out there...not everyone that drives an s-chassis drifts...

and not everyone needs to go 90 on the freeway...

Not everyone, but I do.. enjoy the altima though, it's pretty good looking.

[fingjosh]

seriously though, the altima is not bad.

it's like a poor man's G. :)

[lucky7]

altima is a girls car. in fact, all the infiniti's are round and extremely fem looking. i couldn't drive any of them. :keke:

[DALAZ_68]

altima is a girls car. in fact, all the infiniti's are round and extremely fem looking. i couldn't drive any of them. :keke:
wow...you make it sound like you never wanna be inside a girl...:tardrim:

[XeroX]

wow...you make it sound like you never wanna be inside a girl...:tardrim:

:keke:Waka waka waka waka :keke: