Pile up on freeway I need help to determine whos at fault.

[airhead]

Ok i was involve in a accident about three days ago
it took place in the 60fwy east in Moreno valley, CA
it was a three lane carpool,fast lane,slow lane.

I was driving in the slow lane going normal speed suddenly the car in front of me stops out of no where so i'm like "oh shit" so i pump on my brakes and i was so close hitting the car in front of me luckly i pulled my e-brake on time and i avoided the car in front of me. I guess there was an accident about 400feet away from me so it caused all cars to stop in a awkward position.So at this point i'm relief that i avoided the person in front of me.

So basically my car stopped in a 30degree angle with my front fender and front bumper sticking a bit out to the fast lane. At this time i'm worried if anyone is going to hit me from me behind or side because all i herd was tires screeching everywhere. about 20 seconds i here all the screeching some lady hits me in her blue 2009 Hyundai santa fe hits me on the front fender corner.

I already reported the accident with both mine and her insurance.
Right now its going under investigation between both insurance companies.

I have been doing my re-search and homework for the past days but i haven't found any accidents in my situation. I want to know who is at fault.

I found this website Insurance Act - R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668 (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_900668_e.htm) that shows how insurance determine who is at fault. The website doesn't show my accident scenario, but the research i did shows that the person that is always behind is always at fault(they need to be at full control of their vehicle) and should of stop. well technically she wasn't behind me but she should of tried to stop and control her vehicle to avoid me. Remember all cars were all trying to stop on time i did and avoided the person in front of me. Im kinda worried if it was to be my fault since my car stopped in the fast lane...

Unprofessional quick paint sketch of the accident:
light brown squares=stopped cars
black square= My car nissan 240sx (its stopped)
blue square= Hyundai sante fe

http://i39.tinypic.com/v6rnnk.jpg

any comments,tips will help me a lot feel free to judge who is at fault.

anyways here is my damage:
http://i39.tinypic.com/1824y0.jpg

damage to the santa fe:
http://i39.tinypic.com/1aqsi.jpg

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Seems to me like it's her fault. She should have swerved or hit the brakes; unless there was a car there.

[shiftdrift]

yeah, if it is how you say it is, it should be her fault. she should have been paying attention to the road and should have been prepared to stop.

[Aki180sx]

Her fault. still sucks for you though hope it works out in your favor.

[airhead]

It sucks right now because that car is my daily and i drive to work,school everywhere my car shakes im thinking because the LCA got pushed in and my headlight doesn't open up so i cant drive at night:( other then my whole front frame damage!!!!:( i asked for a rental to the insurance company they said i need to wait until the insurance determines who is at fault.
shit.... i need to get this done asap!!!

[miravete]

hopefully the insurance claim guy doesnt try to say that you werent stopped, and that you were trying to get into the fast lane to go around the accident, thus you being at fault for being negligent by impeding the continous flow of traffic.

dunno, just a scendario lol

[miravete]

I was driving in the slow lane going normal speed suddenly the car in front of me stops out of no where so i'm like "oh shit" so i pump on my brakes and i was so close hitting the car in front of me luckly i pulled my e-brake on time and I drifted to a complete stop avoiding the pyle of cars ahead of me


that sounds cooler :cool:

haha jk

luckily it wasnt a total loss of your car, and you didnt sustain physical damage.

[shiftdrift]

well, at least you'll get a nice check and be able to fix it on the cheap.

[2_slow_40]

I would think that if your car was far enough into her lane that she couldn't squeeze by you, then she is at fault for failing to stop behind a vehicle in front of her. If it happened 20 seconds after you stopped, then she should've seen that your car was in front of her! So basically, your car sticking out in the fast lane far enough so that she can't squeeze by = your car was IN THE FAST LANE = she hit you from behind, and needs to pay the fupp up. If your car was that far in the fast lane, then it should technically be classified as a lane change to smash from behind. Idk, you probably shouldn't listen to a word I just said, Idk if it even makes any sence. I better just stop now and go to bed!!!!
Good night everybody.

[Gnnr]

yeah, if it is how you say it is, it should be her fault. she should have been paying attention to the road and should have been prepared to stop.

Yep. This is the insurance company's reasoning. If you are in front and someone comes from behind and hits you its their fault.

[TheWolf]

this is a great chance to learn a life lesson.

Police report. None mentioned. If you didn't get one you're in deep shit. It's at the top of every insurance card. Get a report.

Take two deep breaths and let this sink in. They arn't going to get this done asap. Shit you will be lucky if they return your phone calls. This is going to take atleast a week or two to get going. They arn't going to pay you a rental. In fact if the front wheel falls off tomorrow and the car slides into a pole. Clearly caused by the accident damage. They're not liable for one cent. You should treat your car like it's parked. Busted. What they are going to tell you is this. If you're in a hurry, put it through your own insurance company and when they find her at fault they'll reimburse your insurance company. This is a ploy. If you run it through yours, it goes down as an accident on your insurance and your rate goes up. They'll also never find their own customer at fault. A suckers bet. So all this crying about how this is my daily, my baby, my everything needs to go out the window. This is nothing more than a business transaction based on facts and arbitrary values.

If they find her at fault. They're not going to fix your car. They're going to send out an adjuster who's going to say. Looks like X dollars in damage. This will be based on bluebook values and repair estimates. These guys are professionals, if they say it costs x dollars then it probably does. If x dollars exceed 50-70% of your cars value they will decide it's not worth fixing and will total it. This is where they say, your wonderfull 18 year old car is worth 2k. Here's a check. You will then have the option of saying one of the following. Piss off I'm going to sue you, No way my car is easily worth 2500 and here's 4 craigslist ads that justify my price, or thanks. Those are your options.

The fact you've got the cleanest S13 with x motorswap or rare part on it does not compute. Haggling with them is the best option. If your car honestly has frame damage then it will be totaled. If your car is gutted, then don't expect them to put a high number on it. It's a 18 year old 240sx with half to no interior. It's a 2k ride.

So we'll assume since you're in california you're legal. No SR20 under the hood. California is also 240sx capitol of the planet. So it's not hard to find another one of comparable value. It's a black non pignose s13 that looks ok and assuming it's not like the most mint fresh thing on the planet it's a $2500 car. That leaves you about 1200-1500 for damage. You've got nose, quarter, possibly inner quarter, headlight cover, hood body work, core support, one bent wheel, and probably a bent tie rod. Plus paint. You're pretty close to the total ceiling. If you've got a bent strut or a LCA or frame bent then you're probably going to get totaled out. Once you agree to total and a value, or repair then you'll send your car to the shop and they'll pay the shop. You'll get used parts put on and repainted. There is no magic car fairy where they cater to your whim and put you in a rental while they take it back to santas workshop. Oh if it does get the repair option then they're going to sugest a list of autobody shops they work with. You do NOT have to use one off this list. Find one you're comfortable with. Send it there. Most insurance companies have special discount rates on that list and those companies sometimes do a shit job because they get paid less.

[DRIFTING_SIL_EIGHTY]

You might be found at fault since you were in her lane even though you were avoiding the person in front of you. I was involved in an accident in downtown LA on the 110fwy when a car merged in my lane. Slammed on my brakes but it was to late. Rear ended the person and they were found at fault.

Good luck and hope you get your car fixed soon.

[hOngsterr]

well i think its her fault, because if it was your fault her front end would of hit your car not the side. thats just my opinon.

[LimeLite Racing]

It's her fault PERIOD. YOU stopped in time not to hit the person in front of you. Although you were forced to go into the next lane, any other safe driver would have also had plenty of time to stop before hitting you. Her fault. End of story.

[!Zar!]

so i pump on my brakes and i was so close hitting the car in front of me luckly i pulled my e-brake on time and i avoided the car in front of me.

lol wat ?

[airhead]

LOL its not what is sounds like. pulling the e-brake actually helped me stop just in time to avoid the person in front of me.

the lady that hit me sounded honest. so im hoping she would do the same when she tells both insurance her side of the story.

[drift freaq]

You might be found at fault since you were in her lane even though you were avoiding the person in front of you. I was involved in an accident in downtown LA on the 110fwy when a car merged in my lane. Slammed on my brakes but it was to late. Rear ended the person and they were found at fault.

Good luck and hope you get your car fixed soon.

Indeed this is a grey area because of the angle of your car. If it is determined you were obstructing oncoming traffic in a lane outside of your own you could be found at fault.


Good luck and honestly due to the type of accident you have just had. I suggest you talk to some experts on this. I.E. no one on Zilvia. :ROFL:

Like any of us know all the damn traffic laws. LOL

I would call the CHP and ask them.

On a side note...
I would look at your brakes though. Your car should not be swerving when you brake.

[Persona]

My car got hit a couple months ago.

Was legally parked in street, I watched with 2 other friends as my next door neighbor backed out into my car while were all screaming.

Had 2 witnesses, a police report, they got ticketed, and a million pictures of the damage. Still took their ins. 2 months until they finally admitted fault. Thats after they kept calling and asking the witnesses what happened trying to put words in their mouth etc. Sketchy stuff, and very frustrating.

Be ready for a long wait and possibly a war man, ins. stuff isnt fun.


When they do call you and talk to you on the phone be very precise and think clearly about everything you are saying. Never ever say "I think" or " I could have done" or anything similar.

Ins. is the biggest scam in America, they will take anything to their advantage to not have to pay you, even if it truly isnt even .1% your fault.

[fcdrifter20]

Damn that sux!!!

and you just got it running again and looking nice:(

[moocowmoo]

Indeed this is a grey area because of the angle of your car. If it is determined you were obstructing oncoming traffic in a lane outside of your own you could be found at fault.


Good luck and honestly due to the type of accident you have just had. I suggest you talk to some experts on this. I.E. no one on Zilvia. :ROFL:

Like any of us know all the damn traffic laws. LOL

I would call the CHP and ask them.

On a side note...
I would look at your brakes though. Your car should not be swerving when you brake.

+1 insurance can be tricky bastards, ill ask my uncle, he knows the details of all this since he is involved with insurance, but it may go either way...

1) Its her fault, because she was traveling at an unsafe speed because of the conditions, the accident in front of her, so if she was traveling at the correct speed for the conditions on the highway she would have been able to stop in time to not hit your car.

OR

2) its your fault because you were in her lane, and if she were to hypothetically swerve into the lane next to her and hit another car on her left, then it would be her fault (for hitting the other car) not yours. However since she kept going straight, you were technically an obstruction to her, it may be (but not guaranteed to be) your fault.

so yeah, when I get out of class Ill see if my uncle is home and ill show him this thread and get his input on it. But for now just hope that this goes in the case of scenario 1. I wish you the best of luck because getting hit sucks!

-chris

[airhead]

please let your uncle know and respond here or pm asap

it sucks cuz my car was at a complete stop there was nothing i can do.

after the accident happen the lady said clearly" Im so sorry,its not your fault i saw all the cars stop infront of you" meaning she saw all the cars but failed to stop?

her damage is to the front fender behind the tire all across the passanger door and rear door to the rear quater panel.

idk i just hope the insurance work something out that goes by the law.

[Gizmo_S13]

Did they file a police report? Most likely it will be her fault because the people who hit you from behind are usually at fault. If what you say is true that she hit you 20 seconds or so after you came to a stop would have gave her more than enough reaction time to slow down and go around your car. At least it's not as bad as my friends civic that car got messed up and we were on the emergency lane and some dumbass hit us.

[airsoft]

it's her fault for not paying attention.

But you were in her lane. If she lies about how it went down (no witnesses, no police report) comes down to he say she say.

"Traffic piled up fast, I broke in my lane, and the black car came in my lane and struck my vehicle" Done...

You prevented yourself from the first accident but caused the 2nd... the 20 seconds isn't going to hold up without report / witnesses.. IMO

Unless she says, I was looking down, I was turned around, I wasn't paying attention etc...

Law isn't always fair, but somehow its what works?

Tough call man. Good Luck!

[airhead]

fkk fkk i just called the person that hit me insurance she is saying that her insured said" i swerved to the other lane and hit her to avoid the person infront of me" thats BS i told her that all the cars were stoped including mine.
expept for hers she didint stop on time!

I was arguing with her for 15 mins straight. she just said "im going to have to have to protect my insured and im going to go with my insured said so we wont be paying for your damages"

i told her there is a caltrans video camera pointing directly on the spot she hit me but i dont know if i can get my hands on the recording.

this is BS im going to talk to my insurance to see what they have to say.

btw her insurance appraiser hasn't even inspected my car nor talked to my insurance how can she determine whos at fault without investigating the right way

[airsoft]

Uhh.. You shouldn't be talking to their insurance company or the other party. Give your statement / deposition to your insurance company and have them contact your claim adjuster... If they call you direct them to your insurance and get advice from your claims adjuster on what to answer... you arguing is not going to do shit.

Anyhow, my post earlier kind of hit it on the spot. :P

If you can get a copy of that Cal Trans Vid then maybe? but thats a long shot, i don't even think any adjusters from either side would bother.

Sucks but good luck man!

This is why I say install front / rear view mobile cameras & DVR. That $500.00 sytem could save you $$$$$ in the future.

[moocowmoo]

fkk fkk i just called the person that hit me insurance she is saying that her insured said" i swerved to the other lane and hit her to avoid the person infront of me" thats BS i told her that all the cars were stoped including mine.
expept for hers she didint stop on time!

I was arguing with her for 15 mins straight. she just said "im going to have to have to protect my insured and im going to go with my insured said so we wont be paying for your damages"

i told her there is a caltrans video camera pointing directly on the spot she hit me but i dont know if i can get my hands on the recording.

this is BS im going to talk to my insurance to see what they have to say.

btw her insurance appraiser hasn't even inspected my car nor talked to my insurance how can she determine whos at fault without investigating the right way

bad idea. they will justt try to rile you, do as the person said and just tell your insurance what happened.

my uncle and I were both very busy all week so we couldnt meet up, but I will see him tomorrow and ask him for his input.

also as soon as it happened did you take any pictures? digital camera? cell phone? anything because that could help

Uhh.. You shouldn't be talking to their insurance company or the other party. Give your statement / deposition to your insurance company and have them contact your claim adjuster... If they call you direct them to your insurance and get advice from your claims adjuster on what to answer... you arguing is not going to do shit.

Anyhow, my post earlier kind of hit it on the spot. :P

If you can get a copy of that Cal Trans Vid then maybe? but thats a long shot, i don't even think any adjusters from either side would bother.

Sucks but good luck man!

This is why I say install front / rear view mobile cameras & DVR. That $500.00 sytem could save you $$$$$ in the future.

links to this system lol. just for kicks, maybe just to have around. may be cool. lol thanks

[airsoft]

hehe well... the ones shown below are kind of to the extreme. Built for Law Enforcement / Metro type vehicles

Front Windshield / Dashcam / Rear Cam / you can connect multiple cams on some systems

I have done installation projects for watchguardvideo, seon, intec, and digital patroller

WatchGuard Video DV-1 Digital Police In-Car Video System (http://www.watchguardvideo.com/products/modularversion.shtml)
Our cars would use this system.. Modular is there "universal"
roughly 3k refurb
roughly 5k brand new
I don't sell the shit haha nor can I afford one

SEON DESIGN (http://www.seon.com) is the same pricing

However you can just google a bunch and these will come up:

Rear View Mirror Camera with Front and Rear Camera with DVR, 8GB SD CARD (http://www.rightofdefense.com/Rear_View_Mirror_Camera_with_DVR_8GB_SD_CARD_p/hc-rvm.htm)

Pretty much you pay for what you get...

YouTube - Car Crash Caught On Camera (From The Inside) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAmwg8GAAVc)


****BACK ON TOPIC****

Yah, cool down and speak with your insurance company. Maybe like you said try and contact Caltrans to see what you can do? If your adjuster doesn't want to move forward... get an attorney right away (depending how confident you feel & of course your attorney)... usually attorney's won't get involved w/ out a injury case as they will be make pocket change for your loss.

[moocowmoo]

thats cool for the good ones lol, but for the cheaper ones.. might as well just use thos go pro hd cameras lol THANKS FOR THE INFO THOUGH!

to the OP ill keep you posted as soon as I talk to him

[handinpants]

do you have any witnesses or was there a police report filed

[handinpants]

hehe well... the ones shown below are kind of to the extreme. Built for Law Enforcement / Metro type vehicles

Front Windshield / Dashcam / Rear Cam / you can connect multiple cams on some systems

I have done installation projects for watchguardvideo, seon, intec, and digital patroller

WatchGuard Video DV-1 Digital Police In-Car Video System (http://www.watchguardvideo.com/products/modularversion.shtml)
Our cars would use this system.. Modular is there "universal"
roughly 3k refurb
roughly 5k brand new
I don't sell the shit haha nor can I afford one

SEON DESIGN (http://www.seon.com) is the same pricing

However you can just google a bunch and these will come up:

Rear View Mirror Camera with Front and Rear Camera with DVR, 8GB SD CARD (http://www.rightofdefense.com/Rear_View_Mirror_Camera_with_DVR_8GB_SD_CARD_p/hc-rvm.htm)

Pretty much you pay for what you get...

YouTube - Car Crash Caught On Camera (From The Inside) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAmwg8GAAVc)


****BACK ON TOPIC****

Yah, cool down and speak with your insurance company. Maybe like you said try and contact Caltrans to see what you can do? If your adjuster doesn't want to move forward... get an attorney right away (depending how confident you feel & of course your attorney)... usually attorney's won't get involved w/ out a injury case as they will be make pocket change for your loss.


i have thing called a gost, (digital drive recorder) but i didn't get around to installing it before my accident. next car will have it. it does everything, g shock sensor triggers recording, it will map your gps of the recording, how hard you were hit, even record whats in front of the car, and whats going on in the cabin,.

[airhead]

i was looking at the skid marks everytime i pass threw that freeway and i i see my skid marks and i see one right behind me i think she was behind me the whole time and she tried to turn over to the fastlane and thats how the accident happen.

you can clearly see my marks exactly how i posted on my diagram.
and you see one right behind mine and it goes quickly to ther other lane..

mmm....

im going to take pictures of the skid marks

i think thats enough evidence.

i will post it up later today

[iammikeol]

if only the insurance company would look at your paint drawing..

[airhead]

yes i know they would laugh lol..

ill make a decent one ill use from google maps.

[roboticnissan]

your fault bro. you had to come to screeching hault and pull partially into the next lane. you didnt leave enuff room between you and the car in front of you. you caused the accident with the santa fe by having to brake and turn into the other lane

[iammikeol]

^^ well technically yea. you have to think from the other drivers perspective. shes just driving down the road dude..then bam. sucks. hope both of u get settlement.

[davirene]

DAMMMMMMMMMMMMM dude......all that work and this shit happens......Sort of like when David JR (my son) totalled his car 3 weeks after having repainted....

Should be her fault.....u were in front of her....the person from the rear is always at fault.....Good luck....


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/davirene/100_1952.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/davirene/100_2411.jpg

[airhead]

holy shit sucks man...

i need to take those pictures of the skid marks
i think i can prove my self with that

[NINJASPY]

if its in the police report it actually happened.
if its NOT in the police report, its left to the judges, lawyers and whatever you/she says when questioned in court/deposition etc.... and the cop who wrote the police report and the cop doing the investigation.

any evidence is USELESS because your are biased, so any pictures of skid marks etc etc won't hold up in court. Skid marks= not in control= at fault

[moocowmoo]

yeah... just talked to my uncle..... he said that since you went over into her lane its guna be hard as hell to get them to think its her fault. but you never know.... you could still try man. I wish you luck

[jeanlee411]

It sucks right now because that car is my daily and i drive to work,school everywhere my car shakes im thinking because the LCA got pushed in and my headlight doesn't open up so i cant drive at night:( other then my whole front frame damage!!!!:( i asked for a rental to the insurance company they said i need to wait until the insurance determines who is at fault.
shit.... i need to get this done asap!!!
hopefully the insurance claim guy doesnt try to say that you werent stopped, and that you were trying to get into the fast lane to go around the accident, thus you being at fault for being negligent by impeding the continous flow of traffic.

dunno, just a scendario lol

__________________________
Watch Iron Man 2 Online Free (http://moviesonlinefree.biz/)

[!Zar!]

Now that I think about this, OP is at fault.

If you were following a safe distance behind (Three or more seconds) the car infront of you, you should have been able to come to a complete stop safely; without pulling up the ebrake and trying to drift or some shit.

But since you were not a safe distance, you had to exit your lane and protrude into another lane. That lane happened to be in the way of another driver. From what I glanced at on your story, she only hit you. So if you weren't in her way, there would have been no accident for you and her.

[Daniel.]

True Mel, but wasn't she behind him? And wasn't she following so close to him that she had to swerve left into another lane to avoid rear ending him?

[!Zar!]

In which the case would be that they both are at fault.

She had enough time to exit her lane into another one.

He was stopped partially into another lane. Being as how things played out, it is going to be hard to prove he is not at fault at all.

If she hit the rear of him, and then he was pushed out of his lane, then he would have something. But being as how he wasn't in his lane, and maybe if he stopped safely in his lane he wouldn't have been hit? Hard to say. But I have a feeling that it is going to be both drivers at fault or OP being placed as the blame.

Much easier to argue a car being in your lane, than to say that you were behind them, and then turned out of the lane and hit the side.

Either way it sucks.

[airhead]

most likely 50/50 percent each at fault. thats what im guessing the judge will say.

i really can care less now im picking up another clean fastback for cheap. ill just swap over all my parts to that one and re paint it.

body shop quoted me 3500$ to fix that front end damage wow

[fliprayzin240sx]

God all this talk of insurance...be thankful you're not in Japan. Japanese insurance is fucking retarded. No matter what, you will always be partially fault (certain %) for anything. Somebody rear ends you while you're stopped at a light, 10-20% your fault because if you didnt drive, you wouldnt be there to get hit. It gets better when you're military because you have insurance and whoever hit you probably dont have one.

[airhead]

ok i found out the lady that hit me side of story.

It turns out she said she was in the slow lane right behind me when she saw me put my brakes on she swerved to the other lane to avoid me but still side swipe me.

fucking insurance are rude she didint want to tell me what lane was she in. she kept on telling me she didint have to tell me anything untill i threatend her i will report them to the insurance bureau. thats when she told me the story.

with the skid marks pictures i have it shows cearly how i came to a stop and you see skid marks right behind mine and how it crosses over to my skid marks.

i know she is 100% percent at fault because she was behind me the whole time. Now with the clear story and the pictures is enough evidence that she is 100% at fault.

they still dont want to pay up.she keeps on telling me that its my fault the accident happen because i slammed on my brakes and lost control. So i told them im taking her to small claims court and reporting Triple A to the insurance bureau.

:mephfawk:

[sentiumprogram]

Dude...you just painted your car too.


I kinda ruined my paint job on my front fender after I painted my civic too

[moocowmoo]

ok i found out the lady that hit me side of story.

It turns out she said she was in the slow lane right behind me when she saw me put my brakes on she swerved to the other lane to avoid me but still side swipe me.

fucking insurance are rude she didint want to tell me what lane was she in. she kept on telling me she didint have to tell me anything untill i threatend her i will report them to the insurance bureau. thats when she told me the story.

with the skid marks pictures i have it shows cearly how i came to a stop and you see skid marks right behind mine and how it crosses over to my skid marks.

i know she is 100% percent at fault because she was behind me the whole time. Now with the clear story and the pictures is enough evidence that she is 100% at fault.

they still dont want to pay up.she keeps on telling me that its my fault the accident happen because i slammed on my brakes and lost control. So i told them im taking her to small claims court and reporting Triple A to the insurance bureau.

:mephfawk:

ahh that makes sense. so it most likely that its her fault because as she stated SHE SWERVED. so yeah. kinda fucks her