Die Apple Die

[sub9lulu]

:mad: Apple is suing HTC over 20 patents.

Apple Sues Phone Maker HTC Over Patents
By NICK BILTON

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/03/02/technology/bits-jobsappletouch/bits-jobsappletouch-blogSpan.jpg

Steven P. JobsPaul Morris/Getty Images Steven P. Jobs talked about the iPhone’s patented features in a 2007 presentation.

Apple said on Tuesday that it had filed lawsuits against HTC, the Taiwan-based phone maker, accusing it of infringing on 20 Apple patents tied to the iPhone.

The suits, filed with the office of the United States International Trade Commission and the United States District Court in Delaware, say HTC violated patents covering the phone’s user interface, internal architecture and hardware.

HTC makes the Nexus One, a phone designed and sold by Google that runs Google’s Android operating system. Google was not mentioned in the suit, but the lawsuits are likely to worsen the already strained relations between Apple and Google.

Steven P. Jobs, Apple’s chief executive, said in a press release: “We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it. We’ve decided to do something about it.” Mr. Jobs added: “We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours.”

HTC did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Cellphone makers have been playing catch-up to the iPhone since it was introduced in June 2007, creating phones with similar touch-screen interfaces.

Apple has said that it has filed over 200 patents related to the iPhone.


ibapplefanboi

[Triple A]

and you're mad because..?

[ericcastro]

When man invented the wheel, he didnt tell other people they would have to keep trying to figure it out and sue them if he saw them with one.
When they copied it,
He stuck a fucking axle in there and put it on a cart.
When everyone did that,
he made one out of stone, put an axle on it attached to a center post, and put it on a flate rock for grinding down grain.

Its the nature of discovery and advancement of technology.
you cant stop it.
ILM didnt say, Sorry guys, no CGI for anyones movies but Lucas.
They just work harder to keep advancing instead of sitting on their buts.

Steve Jobs is a cry baby.

[ronmcdon]

It'd be interesting to know specifically what Jobs felt was stolen from the iphone.
To be fair, the Nexus 1 is strikingly similar to the iphone.
The interface in person is very similar.
To me, this claim is plausible (but not yet convincing) without additional details.

It could be that Jobs is in-fact making an unwarranted fuss.
Or it could be that there is something here that's relevant.
Chinese manufacturers (China & Taiwan alike) have had the reputation of 'borrowing' ideas a bit too much.

As much as I'm not a fan of Apple products,
I'm not going to dis-agree with Jobs trying to protect his interests if they're warranted.
Stealing from someone you don't like is still stealing.

However, there's nowhere near enough info here to really say who is in the right here imo.
It's also not like Jobs is suing all smart phone manufacturers either.
If he was the opportunist some of us would make him out to be, he would sue everyone.

[sub9lulu]

apple couldnt sue google that makes android,
they got but* hurt and started suing HTC that makes the phone,
motorola, samsung, sony ericsson is next

[ericcastro]

apple couldnt sue google that makes android,
they got but* hurt and started suing HTC that makes the phone,
motorola, samsung, sony ericsson is next

good point.

Figure its a big fuss, and will never be heard of again as they drop all charges eventually.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

He's just jealous because the Andriod OS is better than an iPhone.

:hide:

[drift freaq]

good point.

Figure its a big fuss, and will never be heard of again as they drop all charges eventually.

Actually what will happen is if there is any kind of actual proof of Apple having patented files on certain aspects of the interface in the U.S. then HTC will wind u paying a royalty to Apple. This kind of stuff goes on all the time in Silicon Valley. Its nothing except the media jumped on it because its Apple and it involves filed Iphone patents.

OH and Apple has no reason to sue Google they did not make the hardware or the interface and Android is not nearly close enough to the Iphone OS to matter. So anybody who uses that as a reason for Apple suing HTC is a technological moron.

I predict that it will be proven Apple had filed patents in the U.S. for the interface before any of these other guys thought of doing that. HTC is a Taiwanese company. Both China and Taiwan manufacture and take patents into account after the fact.

HTC will wind paying Apple royalties and the smartphone market will move on. Nothing new here.

Oh and stop bringing your own personal hatred for Apple into this argument. Its strictly a patent law issue.

[sub9lulu]

They learned their lesson on going against MS. Steve Jobs doesn't have to have relive the experience of giving a State of the Company speech with a giant Bill Gates smiling in the background.

It seems like Apples main problem is with Google itself, but it knows better than to go after them. What happens if google says "ok screw you" and then cuts iphone ips from goole maps, goole earth, and god forbid google itself. Apple would of essentially bricked all the iphones overnight. I know the iphone depends on google more than what I've stated above, but since i never owned one i really cant think of any other ways.

Apple picked HTC for a very good reason. They are the biggest manufactor of WM phones (i'm 95% sure of this but too lazy to do the research), and they have set themselves up to be the same for android. This makes HTC probably the most important cell phone company on the market because they have their hands in every cookie jar, except apple. They are apple's biggest threat. If they win this suit against them its really like winning against google and MS.

If HTC is smart and kicks some of these lawsuits up to ladder to google and MS, apple is screwed. It just depends if they decide to get invovled because apple is probably going in the with mindset of we got more money than HTC.

couldnt said it better

[ZenkiKid]

didnt sony sue apple for 9504206504 patents?

[drift freaq]

couldnt said it better

Ah no what you quoted was lame. Apple has always viewed Microsoft as a friendly competitor. I.E. one they can compete with and post digs at but one who sells software that works on Apple products. I.E. Microsoft office and Works.

Neither Apple nor Microsoft want the latter to disappear in the world. If you are not smart enough to know that or realize that you should not be posting stuff about the Electronics/Semiconductor and software industry.

What you posted was a typical I am a Windows/Microsft I hate Apple fanboy post.


Apple is suing over the pinch scroll multi touch capability. They filed a patent on it in the U.S.

It was a big enough issue that Google forced all American releases of Android phones to not have mutli touch up until quite recently.
Once Apple saw that Google had finally reluctantly told HTC to include multi touch on the latest version of the Nexus One Apple had their patent lawsuit.

Go outside the U.S. and Android phones have had multi touch all along because Apple does not hold international patent on it.

Seriously if you are going to post this shit at least know what you are actually posting about.

didnt sony sue apple for 9504206504 patents?

most likely and they probably settled with a royalty agreement. People I said this earlier and I will say it again. This is business as usual. Stop making mountains out of molehills and being media bait.

[ryguy]

What the hell happened to all the Zilvians bashing knock off parts? How is this different? Apple is in the right here, companies have to defend their patents.

[DALAZ_68]

as long as qwerty phones are available...i could care less...all i use my phone for is internet browsing, shit ton of txt and emails...and phone calls...dont need apps...

[tricky_ab]

This is news? HTC was probably planning on suing Apple next week, or something. Then in two weeks Motorola will sue Nokia, then Nokia will sue Apple, then Apple will counter-sue Nokia, and HTC will sue Palm. Things will quiet down for a few months, then Palm will sue someone, and it'll all start again.

[brndck]

dave for president.

to everyone else who is an apple hater, if you owned a patent, and another company released a product that was strikingly similar to your protected product, would you not take legal action?

[iwishiwas-all*]

i mean if ur shit is proprietary and the most advanced, device on the market, I would be pissed too. I mean look, a company invests $xxxxxx on development of technology. If a company copies that design or similar ones, and sells it, they just saved $xxxxxxx on development.

Car companies sell technology to other car companies. But it is in the companies best interest to keep certain things to themselves...

That is how you get ahead in life.

[Freddy]

half the patents they're suing for are way too broad. They basic patent anything they created.

here and explanation of the patents:

Apple vs HTC: a patent breakdown -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/)

[highwaystar22]

I own Apple products, but the idea of Steve Jobs complaining that someone ripped them off, when the bulk majority of their ads have been ripoff's of artist's creations really shows his chutzpah.

Whether it's ripping off a creative artist's idea/creation, or analytical engineer's finely crafted device, ripping someone's stuff off is fail. If Steve doesn't like it, then he should incorporate more original ideas in his advertising spots.

That being said. HTC with just pay royalties and Apple will stop complaining. The only way to get HTC to pay them is to bring a suit cause they're damn sure not going to pony up the cash willingly.

[SimpleS14]

Apple is suing over the pinch scroll multi touch capability. They filed a patent on it in the U.S.


Palm is next? They've had this feature on the Pre since its introduction last year.


I do believe some of these patents are a bit broad, vague or confusing.

Such as this one.... "method for providing automatic and dynamic translation of object oriented programming language-based message passing into operation system message passing using proxy objects”

[g6civcx]

I see an educational opportuniy :-)

Go outside the U.S. and Android phones have had multi touch all along because Apple does not hold international patent on it.

There is no such thing as an "international" patent. Patent law is enforced by the courts, and there is no court that has jurisdiction over every country.

The closest thing you can do is get patent coverage in every country and enforce your patent in each country's court.

half the patents they're suing for are way too broad. They basic patent anything they created.

here and explanation of the patents:

Apple vs HTC: a patent breakdown -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/)


As a professional, I strongly disagree with engadget's characterization of the issued patents.

The proper way to invalidate an issued patent is to provide documentation that the public was in possession of the claimed invention prior to the patent's priority date.

The patentholder must have the right to confront the evidence.

It's easy to say that a particular feature was known, e.g. the scroll to unlock feature; however, the law requires some type of documentation with a date to show that this was not novel.

If there is no documentation, then anyone may provide an affidavit saying that the public had known about this feature prior to the priority date. Then the person providing the affidavit becomes the documentation and is subject to cross-examination by the patentholder in trial.

Question for everyone who says the claims are too broad:

1) does anyone have any documentation that demonstrates that the feature was known before the patent's priority date?

2) is anyone willing to take the stand and testify that such feature was known, and be subjected to cross-examination by the patentholder's attorney?

If you answer NO to both questions, then your opinion carries no weight.

[g6civcx]

I do believe some of these patents are a bit broad, vague or confusing.

Such as this one.... "method for providing automatic and dynamic translation of object oriented programming language-based message passing into operation system message passing using proxy objects”

With all due respect, for an attorney who just graduated from law school and recently passed the bar, I would need to train that person for about 8-12 months before they can fully comprehend the scope of a patent.

It's normal to be confused by the legal language if you don't have a background. Even attorneys struggle with this stuff.

[drift freaq]

I see an educational opportuniy :-)



There is no such thing as an "international" patent. Patent law is enforced by the courts, and there is no court that has jurisdiction over every country.

The closest thing you can do is get patent coverage in every country and enforce your patent in each country's court.




As a professional, I strongly disagree with engadget's characterization of the issued patents.

The proper way to invalidate an issued patent is to provide documentation that the public was in possession of the claimed invention prior to the patent's priority date.

The patentholder must have the right to confront the evidence.

It's easy to say that a particular feature was known, e.g. the scroll to unlock feature; however, the law requires some type of documentation with a date to show that this was not novel.

If there is no documentation, then anyone may provide an affidavit saying that the public had known about this feature prior to the priority date. Then the person providing the affidavit becomes the documentation and is subject to cross-examination by the patentholder in trial.

Question for everyone who says the claims are too broad:

1) does anyone have any documentation that demonstrates that the feature was known before the patent's priority date?

2) is anyone willing to take the stand and testify that such feature was known, and be subjected to cross-examination by the patentholder's attorney?

If you answer NO to both questions, then your opinion carries no weight.

Thank you for filling us in on these intricacies. I stand corrected on the international patent statement and I thank you for giving us this info as it helps to clarify the issue.

The funniest thing about all of this? After owning and using a HTC phone with Android, I have come to the conclusion that Android is a glitchy OS that needs to be improved on. Shades of Microsoft here?
LOL
In the end Iphones work and work well. I am getting one because of that. Now with Apple officially having announced Multi tasking capability I really do not see much of an advantage with Android.

As far as the lawsuit goes again like I said earlier this is typical Silicon Valley stuff. Its gone on for over 40 years. HTC and Apple will come to some kind of settlement and both companies will have their cake. Its the way the Valley works.

[Gnnr]

This is news? HTC was probably planning on suing Apple next week, or something. Then in two weeks Motorola will sue Nokia, then Nokia will sue Apple, then Apple will counter-sue Nokia, and HTC will sue Palm. Things will quiet down for a few months, then Palm will sue someone, and it'll all start again.

Yep. That's business. Getting sued is a sign that you've made it, lol.

[kyoru]

not sure why the op is mad, if someone infringed on my shit I would go after them. this case though I'm sure apple has some other motives to stall HTC.

[ronmcdon]

[QUOTE=drift freaq;3382338]
The funniest thing about all of this? After owning and using a HTC phone with Android, I have come to the conclusion that Android is a glitchy OS that needs to be improved on. Shades of Microsoft here?
LOL
In the end Iphones work and work well. I am getting one because of that. Now with Apple officially having announced Multi tasking capability I really do not see much of an advantage with Android.

[QUOTE]

This I can surely agree on.

I've been using the iphone 3g for the past year.
Last month, I tried out the Verizon Droid (with the Google OS).
It's definetly a lot more glitchy than the iphone.
User inteface isn't too intuitive (as is all Google software imo).
Even the same apps, such as KCRW internet radio & yelp, are better designed for the iphone.
I really didn't fully appreciate the iphone until I stopped using it.

Now I am back with AT&T.
I'm not entirely happy with the iphone,
but it is the best thing out there right now imo
(or at least for my preferences).

I'd just wait till the next iphone comes out in June/July if you want multi-tasking.

I was hoping that T-mobile might offer an iphone,
but there seems to be no hint of that.
There are rumors that Verizon might offer the iphone however.

[drift freaq]

I'd just wait till the next iphone comes out in June/July if you want multi-tasking.

I was hoping that T-mobile might offer an iphone,
but there seems to be no hint of that.
There are rumors that Verizon might offer the iphone however.

well two things I can sell my mytouch and buy a used 3G for now and use it on wifi and edge. My friend has been using a 3G that way on T Mobile for like over a year now and it works fine. I don't do a crazy amount of web browsing on the phone anyways. More I use apps.

Second off their are rumors about Verizon because Verizon and people that want a Iphone on Verizon are generating them. Verizon tweaked Apples nose hard back in December with the blatant Droid does ads as well the Island of misfit toys( which was rather amusing). They are going to have to work a little to get back into Apples good graces. Remember Apple offered the Iphone to them first and they turned it down.

Now with all that said, when the contract is up in June/July with ATT Apple will not do a exclusive with anyone carrier. They will open the phones up to all carriers. Already being a GSM based phone it will be quite easy to change the UMTS band frequency at the factory for T-Mobile. Plus the 1700/2100 band IV frequency is new frequency that was only put up for Auction by the U.S. Gov. a few years ago unlike the 1900/2100 band 1 that ATT uses.

Many countries are starting to use the 1700/2100 with more carriers. Wind Mobile in Canada is on it. Wind Mobile is a Greek company that has facilities n Greece, Italy, and they are expanding. Japan also has carriers using that freq as well right now.
Apple will want to to take advantage of that. Sure there will be a Verizon version. I do not think it will be an exclusive nor will it cut out other U.S. carriers.

Apple has already established their power base with 50 million Iphones sold. They can sell to everyone now and reap the benefits. No need for exclusivity to a carrier anymore.

You don't see, Nokia, Motorola, Samsung,LG,Sony Ericcson,HTC doing it because they are established. They are available in one form or another on all carriers.
Apple is now in the established position as well.

[g6civcx]

Thank you for filling us in on these intricacies. I stand corrected on the international patent statement and I thank you for giving us this info as it helps to clarify the issue.


Any time. I have all these useless info in my head floating around taking up space for no reason :boink:

[slider2828]

Man I gotta admit, I hate iPhones... damn nazi's locking it down and all... I know jailbreak, but still.... sigh... But with the ipad and iphone that can link together via the apps, that is just awesome.... I dunno man, Apple is growing on me, but I will wait for the Sony Xperia X10 do out this month with ATT and I think out of the box it should run Droid 2.1, still crossing fingers on that one.... ATT still own exclusivity till end of the year, their contracts got extended by Apple... still though....


OBTW Freaq, did you send out the motor mounts to me yet?

[aznpoopy]

When man invented the wheel, he didnt tell other people they would have to keep trying to figure it out and sue them if he saw them with one.
When they copied it,
He stuck a fucking axle in there and put it on a cart.
When everyone did that,
he made one out of stone, put an axle on it attached to a center post, and put it on a flate rock for grinding down grain.

Its the nature of discovery and advancement of technology.
you cant stop it.
ILM didnt say, Sorry guys, no CGI for anyones movies but Lucas.
They just work harder to keep advancing instead of sitting on their buts.

Steve Jobs is a cry baby.

except the wheel maker could keep his shit secret and not tell anyone how to make it. if he died that tech would be lost to humanity until someone else got the brilliant spark to invent a wheel. you think corporations don't do this? perhaps you need to meet mr "trade secret"

patent law supports discovery and advancement of tech by forcing mr. wheel maker to disclose. in exchange for disclosure he gets temporary monopoly on the wheel. so patent law incentivizes invention. because most inventors aren't out to invent to benefit all of mankind. they want to make money doing it.

once disclosed, anyone and everyone interested can learn how to make and use the wheel immediately by reading the patent. therefore all inventors can begin inventing (and patenting) things that utilize the wheel... axles, carts, chariots, whatever.

the cliff notes: the goal of patent law is to quicken the pace of innovation, not slow it down.

[g6civcx]

Thomas Jefferson was an inventor. He pioneered the US patent system and most of the ideas he came up with is still implemented today.

TJ faced the same problem you're talking about and he came up with the patent system.

If you have a beter suggestion, please speak up.

[kyoru]

Man I gotta admit, I hate iPhones... damn nazi's locking it down and all... I know jailbreak, but still.... sigh... But with the ipad and iphone that can link together via the apps, that is just awesome.... I dunno man, Apple is growing on me, but I will wait for the Sony Xperia X10 do out this month with ATT and I think out of the box it should run Droid 2.1, still crossing fingers on that one.... ATT still own exclusivity till end of the year, their contracts got extended by Apple... still though....


OBTW Freaq, did you send out the motor mounts to me yet?

Apple does have the shit on lock down but comparing their stuff to other competitors it's pretty evident that they got their shit right by controlling everything.

[drift freaq]

Man I gotta admit, I hate iPhones... damn nazi's locking it down and all... I know jailbreak, but still.... sigh... But with the ipad and iphone that can link together via the apps, that is just awesome.... I dunno man, Apple is growing on me, but I will wait for the Sony Xperia X10 do out this month with ATT and I think out of the box it should run Droid 2.1, still crossing fingers on that one.... ATT still own exclusivity till end of the year, their contracts got extended by Apple... still though....


OBTW Freaq, did you send out the motor mounts to me yet?

See this is another thing that cracks me up.

People complaining about it the Iphone not being Open.

The system is tight and works because Apple has control over it. Because they determine if Apps work or not before unleashing them on the public.

I do not see most Iphone users complaining about a need to tweak their phone because its not working right. I do not see them complaining about a lack of good Apps. I do see this with Android.

The only people that really complain about the Iphone not being open are either on a carrier that does not have it or Anti Apple people in general.

Plus like you said you can jailbreak the phone to add unapproved apps if you want take the chance. Oh and sim unlocking to use on another carrier is pretty much how it goes with all subsidized phones in the U.S. that are GSM,

Google has everybody bamboozled into thinking that because their OS is supposedly open and tweakable its special.
Its not, the apps are weaker , the OS is glitchy its just not a properly working system. Again shades of Microsoft.

Oh and Android 2.1 still has these glitches I speak of. Its been documented on the net.


At the end of the day my friend uses his Iphone all the time on T-Mobile with no problems even with it on Edge and wifi.

That is what I want in a phone no problems. If it means a tightly controlled system by the manufacturer I see no problem with it.

Oh and yes they shipped you should see them tomorrow.

[Baka Sama]

ACTUALLY....

Nokia sued Apple 1st.

Nokia, the world's largest mobile phone manufacturer, today launched a legal attack on Apple in the US courts, alleging the iPhone infringes 10 of its patents. The move could cost the Californian technology firm tens of millions of dollars

-Thursday 22 October 2009

Then Apple Counter sued Nokia And sued HTC at the same time. So it is NOKIA who "needs to die" as the OP so greatly put it, NOT apple.

Also Apple will never sue Palm because Palm was the 1st phone to pioneer the touch interface and actually its apple that is still infringing on Palms patents right now. Thats why HTC is trying (with everyone else) to buy out Palm. So they can have the rights to their patents (plus web OS).

I love how Zilvia STILL gets everything wrong! lol

[Baka Sama]

And on a side note.. WEB OS is so much better than the iphone or droid but palm phones suck. The pre plus would have been a hit if it wasnt for that garbage keyboard. Right now the iphone is still on top as the best phone imo. Maybe the HTC EVO will change that or any good phone windows phone 7 is put on.

[drift freaq]

And on a side note.. WEB OS is so much better than the iphone or droid but palm phones suck. The pre plus would have been a hit if it wasnt for that garbage keyboard. Right now the iphone is still on top as the best phone imo. Maybe the HTC EVO will change that or any good phone windows phone 7 is put on.

You are correct WEB OS is great. To bad no one makes shit for it and the company is failing. HTC EVO is not going to do shit. Apple is bringing out the 4th generation Iphone in June/ July with a faster processor and multi tasking.

People need to realize Apple is on top and is pretty savy at staying there. They will do everything needed with the Iphone to keep it there.

[Strider]

You are correct WEB OS is great. To bad no one makes shit for it and the company is failing. HTC EVO is not going to do shit. Apple is bringing out the 4th generation Iphone in June/ July with a faster processor and multi tasking.

People need to realize Apple is on top and is pretty savy at staying there. They will do everything needed with the Iphone to keep it there.

You really think the iPhone 4G will use a faster processor than the Snapdragon even though thats the industry leader right now? In my opinion, the iPhone 4G will be 1Ghz too, the processor is way to new for manufacturers to skip over it and get something else plus because of its wide use and implementation into a variety of phones, it's now cost efficient to put them in products.

[drift freaq]

You really think the iPhone 4G will use a faster processor than the Snapdragon even though thats the industry leader right now? In my opinion, the iPhone 4G will be 1Ghz too, the processor is way to new for manufacturers to skip over it and get something else plus because of its wide use and implementation into a variety of phones, it's now cost efficient to put them in products.

Apple is using their own chip already. When I said faster processor I was referring to the current Iphone processor.

Though Apple will not use Snapdragon because they already bought a chip manufacturer specifically for usage in Iphone's and Ipad's.
It will definitely be 1GHz but do be surprised if it comes out even faster.
They have no reason or need at this time for Snapdragon.

Now whether this is a wise choice in the long run remains to be seen.

Last time Apple went down this road was with the IBM/Motorola Power PC chip(Apple actually had an invested interest in the consortium), which was not bad, it eventually hit a brick wall on the heat vs power consumption vs speed situation.

Hence Apple switching to Intel for the their processors for computers.

I might add though Qualcomm has never been a real leader or innovator when it comes to computers on a chip i.e. large scale integration. Snapdragon is the first processor that has been noteworthy from Qualcomm.

Intel still stands to take the achievements of Snapdragon and smash them with Atom.

If Intel had managed to get Atom correct on energy consumption and heat dissipation before now, you probably would have seen Apple using it.

Though there is a good chance Intel will get Atom worked out and when they do? Watch out Qualcomm.