Anybody know of any Best Gasoline science, proof, or facts?

[fwuffy squirrel]

Hi I've done a search and found some interesting stuff, but nothing to answer my question.

I've been doing a little research and found that gasoline is set apart by their additives and most base gasoline is the same. But does anybody know of a study done, or proof other than "HEAR SAY" about the additives and their difference?
What makes Shell V-Power with Nitrogen different than Chevron with Techron?
I don't trust a talking cartoon car telling me it's better just because, to give $30 a week to gas meaning $120 a month or $1,440 a year.
What is Techron exactly?
How does/can nitrogen help cars at all?
Do any other type of gas such as 76, Arco, Texaco have good additives but without a gimmicky name?


Please don't use, or refer me to the Bias gasoline sites like Chevron.com/find out how we're better/ect...

Inb4 "Nascar uses it so you should too"

Pics from sites:


http://images.p1points.com/images/content/Shell_Nitrogen_Gasoline_LEAD_Graphic.jpg
http://www-static.shell.com/static/usa/downloads/products_services/on_the_road/fuels/vpower/piston_bottom_big.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4219/shellm.jpg
http://www.hildreth.com/images/ChevronCartoon.jpg
http://www.deuceofclubs.com/items/gasser.jpg
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6163/chevron.jpg

[I LUV MY S13]

i always wondered this too

[dawagarage]

have you already visited this site? Top Tier Gasoline (http://www.toptiergas.com/)

[koukimonster139]

wikipedia is your best friend. Be ready for a chemistry lesson though. i dont know of any fuel gurus on zilvia

personal experience and best results for me are bp 93 with invigorate.

[Wabash9000]

part of the problem is that there is no real standard for this. All gas stations get their gas from the same place. From there the companies have given the station owners a set of requirements of additives in order to qualify as that brand of gasoline. From there it is up to the station owner to determine what additives to use and how much of them to use as long as it meets the requirements set by the company. So one shell gas station could have gas that does wonders for your engine but one 10 miles down the road could be basically the same as every other gas station. So unless you look at what extra components a station owner puts in his gas then you will not know how good that gas really is just because it belongs to a company.

[fckillerbee]

have you already visited this site? Top Tier Gasoline (http://www.toptiergas.com/)

that was a waste of information.... what I want to know....is chevron better than shell or mobile 1. Top tier is just a fucking category....just like everyother gas station meeting "requirements".

[lazysk8er2]

well i work at a getty gas station and i know that us, the mobile and the bp (1 block away from each) all get the same gas from the same company and truck deliveries. so unless they have some special way of mixing this stuff at the station itself its all the same except they pay more at the other stations and we are full service

[aoshi1]

part of the problem is that there is no real standard for this. All gas stations get their gas from the same place. From there the companies have given the station owners a set of requirements of additives in order to qualify as that brand of gasoline. From there it is up to the station owner to determine what additives to use and how much of them to use as long as it meets the requirements set by the company. So one shell gas station could have gas that does wonders for your engine but one 10 miles down the road could be basically the same as every other gas station. So unless you look at what extra components a station owner puts in his gas then you will not know how good that gas really is just because it belongs to a company.

I can say with all honesty that this isn't the case, at least not with all stations. I used to manage a Chevron in Phoenix. I worked all three shifts as needed, and was present at every fuel delivery, as I was the only one who could sign off for it. There were no additives added at the station level, no policy telling us to. We just had the gas put in the ground holding tanks, changed prices as needed, and went about our business. The Chevron I worked for was a franchise, so that might be a reason for the lax policy. The owner had about 25 stations locally though, and all were run the same way. And at each one, we still had the "Chevron with Techron" signs out. I know this because I had to change them out a few times. I guess I just assumed that the gas came that way. But I had been seeing news recently about the gas delivery center downtown, and about how all the stations in Phoenix all get their gas from there. I am sure that they don't keep separate tanks for separate stations, so this all makes sense now. I guess we will never know until someone puts a chemistry set to it, yeah?

[dawagarage]

that was a waste of information.... what I want to know....is chevron better than shell or mobile 1. Top tier is just a fucking category....just like everyother gas station meeting "requirements".

there is no such thing as "a waste of information." just because something is not helpful to you does not mean that it is not helpful to someone else.

[Iron_Zenki]

If there were animated 240s telling me to buy there fuel id be SOLD :]

[aoshi1]

If there were animated 240s telling me to buy there fuel id be SOLD :]

Lol, true dat, I'd be lining up too.

[jdm213]

my uncle delivers fuel and he told me that the same gasoline arco uses its the same as shell ????? its the same shit !!!!! the only ones who have their own refeinery is chevron and mobil 1 but mobil is shit so all the nitrogen shit is BS. he makes two rounds with the same fuel to arco and shell so there hopes this answers alot of confusion

[Otto347]

Somebody call mythbusters.

[tootall4la]

If there were animated 240s telling me to buy there fuel id be SOLD :]
hahah this is sooo true!!!
Somebody call mythbusters.
Best thing ive heard to solve this dilemma

[juve_240sx]

well i work at a getty gas station and i know that us, the mobile and the bp (1 block away from each) all get the same gas from the same company and truck deliveries. so unless they have some special way of mixing this stuff at the station itself its all the same except they pay more at the other stations and we are full service


i agree with you too i used to work for a gas station and it was a regular valero and the same truck will deliver gas to the valero and shell station

[sincity_sil80]

dam.. and all this time i thought chevron and shell were the best... guess im switchin back to the cheapest

[fckillerbee]

there is no such thing as "a waste of information." just because something is not helpful to you does not mean that it is not helpful to someone else.

this thread is about the best gasoline...tell me where in my quoted post does it let anyone know which is the best????!!!! It only says that these companies have a higher "standard". And now according to Trucker who delivers fuel, says that they are all the same....now tell me how that is not a waste of information? Nowhere did it help anyone out anymore than when we started.

It's like stating an observation....I know the sky is blue...you know its blue.... so why would you mention it? :madfawk:

Valero is the cheapest...and shell gas is fucking expensive and they are the same?....

[dawagarage]

this thread is about the best gasoline...tell me where in my quoted post does it let anyone know which is the best????!!!! It only says that these companies have a higher "standard". And now according to Trucker who delivers fuel, says that they are all the same....now tell me how that is not a waste of information? Nowhere did it help anyone out anymore than when we started.

It's like stating an observation....I know the sky is blue...you know its blue.... so why would you mention it? :madfawk:

Valero is the cheapest...and shell gas is fucking expensive and they are the same?....

my bad. if i gave you an E-hug would you forgive me?

[jj2288]

Somebody call mythbusters.

Seriously someone do this.

[lazysk8er2]

middle grade is 60% regular 40% premium fyi

[fckillerbee]

my bad. if i gave you an E-hug would you forgive me?

yesssss :keke:

[hOngsterr]

i used to go with 76 all the time, made my car run rich, idle was crazy somehow, how? idk, but when i went to chevron my motor started running smoothly, just my .02 plus never really tried shell, went there a few times but saw no diff,

so chevron is my main gas supplier lol

[fckillerbee]

submitted to mythbusters....keep our fingers crossed!

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=6941912904&f=7501919888&m=12819464401&r=12819464401#12819464401

[Iron_Zenki]

^^^^^Sweet

[fckillerbee]

according to some guy on mythbusters...they do not do product comparison...so if there is anyother way to word it, let me know. I really would like to see an answer.

[fckillerbee]

so it keeps coming to the same conclusion....there is no better gas...only a standard.


OP YOU CAN CLOSE THIS THREAD.

[fwuffy squirrel]

Thanks for the helpful info and effort killerbee.

I dunno how to close the thread but Mods can lock.

[93nismo]

according to some guy on mythbusters...they do not do product comparison...so if there is anyother way to word it, let me know. I really would like to see an answer.

you could try asking them to see if the additives the gas stations claim they put in there fuel is actually doing what they say and then maybe they could test just regular cheaper gases and see what the difference is. its pretty much asking to compare but worded different lol id say if they were to do it then it would give us an answer to this thread.

...or im just misreading somewhere and have no idea what im talking about :]

[fckillerbee]

you could try asking them to see if the additives the gas stations claim they put in there fuel is actually doing what they say and then maybe they could test just regular cheaper gases and see what the difference is. its pretty much asking to compare but worded different lol id say if they were to do it then it would give us an answer to this thread.

...or im just misreading somewhere and have no idea what im talking about :]

well that has already been proven...there is a higher standard...but most gas stations are on this list. According to many...they are all the same gas....literally. which also makes me wonder why some are cheaper than others when they are right next to each other. I wonder if the owner of the station looks into the name of the gas station as more importance than the gas itself... I think a chevron owner might have to pay more for the name, rather than a valero....if the gas is essentially the same. That would make sense why one would be cheaper.

[Iron_Zenki]

I got a idea KGB it! maybe that will work?

[jamg]

anyone a chem major?

or a petrol engineer?

pick someone in this thread and send them to college to find out the answers.

[lazysk8er2]

how bout fill a cup of each type of fuel then light it on fire and see the reaction.




burn it down!

[sincity_sil80]

might be a dumb question... but ^^^^what would that prove???

[R_G]

Some one just take pictures of the combustion chamber and valves with a borescope. Do compression on all cylinders then do a leak down test. Run one type of fuel then run another type of fuel and see the results. gas mileage and driving condition and all the good stuff. To much work.

[93nismo]

well that has already been proven...there is a higher standard...but most gas stations are on this list. According to many...they are all the same gas....literally. which also makes me wonder why some are cheaper than others when they are right next to each other. I wonder if the owner of the station looks into the name of the gas station as more importance than the gas itself... I think a chevron owner might have to pay more for the name, rather than a valero....if the gas is essentially the same. That would make sense why one would be cheaper.

in all honesty Ive never heard of either of those gas stations in my life. i go to marathon because its right by my house. but, if those gas stations say they add shit it may work(myth buster crap). but the whole name thing makes sense to me. i know there's a few clarks around me that are a penny cheaper but there further then marathon so i don't usually bother with them. and the store smells funky. "brand name" shits always more expensive. maybe that's why.

EDIT: another reason may be to attract more costumers. maybe? if the price is low enough id be going to the lower one probably lol

[drift freaq]

my uncle delivers fuel and he told me that the same gasoline arco uses its the same as shell ????? its the same shit !!!!! the only ones who have their own refeinery is chevron and mobil 1 but mobil is shit so all the nitrogen shit is BS. he makes two rounds with the same fuel to arco and shell so there hopes this answers alot of confusion

This is actually somewhat true. In California Chevron has refineries, Shell has a Norcal refinery no socal refinery. Shell used to own a Small refinery out in the valley around Bakersfield. Flying J bought it. (Flying J runs a number of truck stops that sell gas) Union 76 used to have a refinery and Mobil had a refinery. With the consolidation of of Oil companies its pretty much true your gasoline is coming out of one or the other refineries which usually provide gas for one of the majors names and sells to others as well.

Truth be told Its really hard to say in California. I have run all kinds of gas and seen no difference. I have had others (friends who are mechanics) claim you don't get as good as gas mileage with Arco, they claim the Arco gas is cut with more ethanol. I don't believe that for one minute.

I have smogged cars with Arco gas. LOL Until someone can provide cold hard truth? I say buy what ever gas based on what you're willing to spend.

[quentinchan]

This is kinda interesting. I don't know too much, however I have taken a few courses in thermodynamic as a junior for chemical engineering in the University of Washington.

Well lets start off with running "rich", the causes for running "rich" is by fuel leave the chamber un-burn. The reason for that is that different substance has a different heat capacity. Different brand of gasoline possibly has different additives, and different additives are made up by different substances. So it is possible for some gasoline to burn "richer" than the other.

Then there is octane... Octane is an additive to gasoline after US banned lead to prevent engine knock. (I can not remember lead was an additive or something that actually found in gasoline.) Engine knock is cause by high heat inside the cylinder wall. And Octane is an organic compound form by carbon and hydrogen. The reason for octane is to control knock in engines. Higher octane concentration can reduce heat in the combustion process. Thats the reason for high octane gasoline.

For the nitrogen part, I don't know hahha. Well, but lets be logical here. Nitrogen Oxide is extremely bad for the ozone. From physical chemistry, due to the orbital theory, Nitrogen Oxide does not decompose over time and it is highly combustible(causes kabooooom in air). When Nitrogen oxide in the atmosphere reach an limit, it will combust and thats why we have emission test. Nitrogen oxide mostly produce by bad combustion cycle, the formation of NO can easier form by nitrogen and oxygen. So if there is nitrogen in the fuel, it would not be a good enough amount for it to do anything to prevent formation of NO.

However, I have to get back to study. Laters

[quentinchan]

Oh by the way, bad gas mileage is cause by high concentration of ethanol in gasoline. :) However, ethanol is alcohol and it is not bad for the engine

[drift freaq]

This is kinda interesting. I don't know too much, however I have taken a few courses in thermodynamic as a junior for chemical engineering in the University of Washington.



Then there is octane... Octane is an additive to gasoline after US banned lead to prevent engine knock. (I can not remember lead was an additive or something that actually found in gasoline.) Engine knock is cause by high heat inside the cylinder wall. And Octane is an organic compound form by carbon and hydrogen. The reason for octane is to control knock in engines. Higher octane concentration can reduce heat in the combustion process. Thats the reason for high octane gasoline.



However, I have to get back to study. Laters

Ah excuse me, Octane is not an additive its a rating. You seriously need to study harder because your posting some pretty ignorant stuff that if you told a petro chemical engineer he would just laugh at you.

Lead was used in Gasoline for its lubricating qualities and to increase Octane. Unfortunately it was also Carcinogenic. It was bad for people to breath and it does put out particulates. This is not something solely in the U.S. either Europe uses Unleaded Gasoline now for this very reason as well.

Its basically like this the higher the Octane rating of the Gas the more efficient burn you can achieve. Now the drawback is If you refine higher Octane gas you cannot refine as much out of a barrel of oil. Since the 1970's the OIl companies have refined lower octane gas to get more gas out of the Oil. They used to use lead to offset this but due to what I stated earlier it was phased out. Hence when I was a kid in California Premium was 94-95 Octane but then as I grew up it dropped lower and lower.
There are other additives that can be put in Gas to increase octane as well, MTBE was one, It again was found to cause health issues in humans and was polluting our water table . It has since been phased out as well.

Oh and Ethanol can be bad for seals,rubber fuel lines and gaskets on cars that were not designed to be running it. This is why Automakers make Flexfuel qualified cars now.

Oh and in California a gas pumped has to be labeled if the Gas contains Ethanol. I have not seen any Flexfuel stations in California either which would be 15% ethanol blend. There may be some but if so they are few and far between.

[quentinchan]

Um...... Octane.... well why don't you just go on google and type octane in gasoline. oh way, let me just do that for you.
Gasoline & Octane Ratings (http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa070401a.htm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane

relate the 2,2,4-trimethylpentane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,2,4-Trimethylpentane) in wiki to the gasoline and octane ratings.

Please read and don't call me name. It is kinda rude.

[Chrischeezer]

fuel is all about knock...

you can spray any fuel on a valve and it will clean it.
If you want a cleaner valvetrain... remove your EGR, and make a REAL catch can system, not vented (get rid of PVC valve and all that crap.)

[fckillerbee]

answered my own question

[quentinchan]

And I should say sorry guys, yea, after some research of my own. My information is misleading.