LSD kill my brand new tires??

[dongoesby]

My brand new Falken Azenis RT-615 235-40-17 only lasted ~4 months!

good alignment: zero toe front, minor toe-in back, -2.4 camber front -1.9 rear
~35psi all around

no abuse on the tires, used mostly for DD.
no autox or track, only mountain once for 30mins

Stock S14 SR on 10psi w/ aggressive clutch (on/off)
Stance GR+ Pro coilover (one finger gap between fender well lowered)
Tanabe Sways
SPL tension, tie rod, RUCA arms
Nismo 2 way (fresh Motul fluid)
Enkei TC105N 17x9 +12 (minor stretch tire)

while the front ones are still in good shape, the rears are completely gone. It got worn out evenly too (in the center while outside threads still noticeable)

picture taken when the rear cambers at -2.4
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/spring%20at%20davis/IMG_2304.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/spring%20at%20davis/IMG_2303.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/spring%20at%20davis/IMG_2337.jpg

[BlitzRPS13]

Could be a case of defective tires.

What is "minor toe" in the rear?

[Grenade180sx]

thats falken tires..

[dongoesby]

Could be a case of defective tires.

What is "minor toe" in the rear?

very minor toe-in

thats falken tires..

my buddy has the same tires on a teg last over a year with multiple autox events and mountain runs.

[S14DB]

very minor toe-in

We're looking for a number here...


Can you get a pic of the tread to show the wear across the face?

[RightWheelDrive]

I am going to venture a guess and say that the accelerated tire wear is due to your LSD, especially since you say all the wear is just in the center of the tire. Excessive toe in or out will uneven wear on the outsides of the tire. My rears ALWAYS wear out faster than my fronts. It part of the cost of having a LSD. You got to pay to play.

[Forge_55b]

im guessing you said your tires are not wearing evenly across the tread surface which sounds like it was overinflated or your alignment is affecting your tires more than what you think it is,

and 615s are pretty soft so of course a 2 way LSD will make them wear out faster, maybe not too significantly to matter, anyhow an up close picture of the tire will show if they were feathering or not

[fliprayzin240sx]

Well, time for you to get some NT05s or Star Specs. Better tires than the 615s and less prone to turning into goo.

[clark]

if your tires wear out in the center more so than the outside of the tire, that means you over inflated your tires.

my falken zeix 912s have lasted me 2 years now. i don't drift but get tail happy sometimes and have never done a burn out so...

if you get tail happy ALOT, do ANY drifting OR a burnout or two, yeah it adds up, PLUS again it sounds like you're over inflated.

btw nice kouki

[sirfallsalot243]

I love Falken Ziex 912's.

One of my favorite tires.

[240sxcure]

I've had those same exact falkens which only lasted me 15-20K, if that, on my DD forester XT.

I think the compound is quite soft.

[volkrps13]

those tires are known for gowing fast... Lsd does increase the death rate for tires, but not thatttttt much. just get some harder compound tires

[jspaeth]

if your tires wear out in the center more so than the outside of the tire, that means you over inflated your tires.

my falken zeix 912s have lasted me 2 years now. i don't drift but get tail happy sometimes and have never done a burn out so...

if you get tail happy ALOT, do ANY drifting OR a burnout or two, yeah it adds up, PLUS again it sounds like you're over inflated.

btw nice kouki


This is EXACTLY what I was thinking....

[RightWheelDrive]

Over inflated tires is a factor but not the main cause. It does however exaggerate the said wear. Hicas cars have premature wear in the center of the tire as a result of a difference in slip angle (same concept with a 2-way). This happens regardless of tire pressure.

[dynamicck]

why is your front toe in zero, but your rears are minor?
double check ur bushings.
If the bushings are bad, and during acceleration it can cause premature tire wear.

[dongoesby]

here is a pic of the passenger side rear tire. The driver side looks the same.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/Tire.jpg

I know this may caused by many reasons, overinflated tire, aggressive lsd, problem with alignment, etc., but how could these cause a street tire only last 4 months??

[FaLKoN240]

Uh, you just listed a bunch of reasons why a tire would only last 4 months.

You're lucky a summer compound tire lasted that long with all those variables fighting against it.

[dongoesby]

Uh, you just listed a bunch of reasons why a tire would only last 4 months.

You're lucky a summer compound tire lasted that long with all those variables fighting against it.

Well, those I listed above could be the possible reasons. But the facts are the tires were pumped 35psi (235/40 on 17x9), and the alignment is good (-1.9 rear camber & very minor toe-in), and I admit that I have an aggressive lsd...

I also know falken azenis don't last, but that fast? I'm saying I paid for $100+ a piece for 4 months??

lastly, sort of a dumb question, can I still run this in autox? if it doesn't hold traction, is it going to be worse if i rotate them to the front (to have major understeer)?

[BlitzRPS13]

4 months is actually pretty decent.. i had someone fuck up one of my alignments.. cooked off a set of tires in 1 week.. so yea.

Those tires are cooked.. i wouldn't even attempt using them on the street.. let alone an auto-x.. just unsafe.

[Hashiriya415]

it also depends who does your alignment.
At the shop I used to work, some people get lazy, just push the wheel with their hand until it reads good on machine, then print and tell customer alignment is all good. On paper the alignment is good. I would say decrease the pressure and use less negative camber next time. Jack up your car, and look for any movement of the wheel up down, side to side, any play is gonna be giving extra wear.

[dongoesby]

i don't get it, my friend has the same tire on his beat up integra for 1 year abuse and autox and he still have a little thread left.

[DrifTGeeK510]

my falkens did the same im sure its just the way the tire wears i have a more significant stretch (17x10.5 225/45/17) but my wear looks the same as yours id say if you want them to last longer buy a different compound tire me personally im content =)

[huffandpuff00]

Your toe in the rear is off, they are fighting each other. correct toe for a s13 is between .03* and .21*, idk what it is for a s14 but guessing pretty close tho. gl man.

[az_240]

I suggest adjustable toe rods such as spl and a new alignment. Toe kills tires.

[dongoesby]

Since so many people have spoken...

Here's an exact alignment spec i'd done on 10/17/09
front left right
camber -2.5.....-2.4
caster....6.5.....6.5
toe........0.........0
total toe......0
rear
camber..-2.0....-1.9
toe........0.05...0.04
total toe....0.09

late in december last year, i found my driver side spl ruca cracked
rear
camber...-3.2...-2.0
toe.........0.45..-0.05
total toe......0.39

within a week, spl had sent me their replacement (a new design) (thumbs up for SPL)
i swapped the rear upper control arm and eye balled the alignment, and drove for a month. It was not until a week ago I found myself went out of thread in the rear.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Double check your toe...I still think its fucked. Get a measuring tape and measure point to point across the front and back of the wheels. See how far off they are from each other. Measure across the front and the back. IIRC, acceptable toe is within 1/8 of an inch. So if you measure them and you get more than 1/8" difference...then that explains your tires shredded.

[LayNLow]

Since so many people have spoken...

Here's an exact alignment spec i'd done on 10/17/09
front left right
camber -2.5.....-2.4
caster....6.5.....6.5
toe........0.........0
total toe......0
rear
camber..-2.0....-1.9
toe........0.05...0.04
total toe....0.09

late in december last year, i found my driver side spl ruca cracked
rear
camber...-3.2...-2.0
toe.........0.45..-0.05
total toe......0.39

within a week, spl had sent me their replacement (a new design) (thumbs up for SPL)
i swapped the rear upper control arm and eye balled the alignment, and drove for a month. It was not until a week ago I found myself went out of thread in the rear.
So, you replace your camber arms, eyeball your alignment, and expect it to be all gravy? You cant eyeball an alignment. That is the reason your tires are fucked. Next time you replace a suspension piece I would get an alignment right after.

[240sxrb25]

omg realign realign realign.


unless you have adjustable toe arms in the back, people who align your car wont get it close, so they pry on it til it reads good and hammer the bolts home and hope it stays.

and thats what will happen with a soft tire such as yours with even "small amount of toe"

toe damage is so underestimated.

[chuy]

Make your rear suspension softer, dont take too many sharp turns

[huffandpuff00]

Make your rear suspension softer, dont take too many sharp turnsthis wont help, I dd my s13 with a locked diff and my tires dont wear much at all.

[S14DB]

here is a pic of the passenger side rear tire. The driver side looks the same.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/Tire.jpg

I know this may caused by many reasons, overinflated tire, aggressive lsd, problem with alignment, etc., but how could these cause a street tire only last 4 months??

That is not wearing on the center or evenly. The inside is scrubbing and the outside is cupped/feathered crazy. Can you not see the ridges on the tread on the outside?

I would say the Toe is off or your suspension isn't traveling correctly. Have you adjusted the ride height after the alignment?

[dongoesby]

I would say the Toe is off or your suspension isn't traveling correctly. Have you adjusted the ride height after the alignment?


What makes you say the toe is off or even the suspension isn't traveling correct?

I did not adjust the ride height after alignment, that is for sure.

But i'm pretty sure the inside wear is due to negative camber. As for the outside "cupped", I'm thinking is done by sliding around...

To further this topic, what is good future tire I should buy? Considering this is my only rim for now, should I get a 255 instead of 235 to avoid premature wear? Does Potenza Re01 last longer? (I do intend to go to track/autox with same set of tires)

[Shvltme93Notch]

track use is a tire killer. i went finished off my GForce KDWs on my mustang in one autox. 1/4 tread left.

[Silverbullet]

To further this topic, what is good future tire I should buy? Considering this is my only rim for now, should I get a 255 instead of 235 to avoid premature wear? Does Potenza Re01 last longer? (I do intend to go to track/autox with same set of tires)

buy another set of rims and have a set of track tires and street tires. Tires can only go through so many heat cycles before they no longer grip as much as they should.

[LayNLow]

What makes you say the toe is off or even the suspension isn't traveling correct?

I did not adjust the ride height after alignment, that is for sure.

But i'm pretty sure the inside wear is due to negative camber. As for the outside "cupped", I'm thinking is done by sliding around...
Seriously? You said it yourself earlier...

late in december last year, i found my driver side spl ruca cracked
rear
camber...-3.2...-2.0
toe.........0.45..-0.05
total toe......0.39

within a week, spl had sent me their replacement (a new design) (thumbs up for SPL)
i swapped the rear upper control arm and eye balled the alignment, and drove for a month. It was not until a week ago I found myself went out of thread in the rear.
I said it before and apparently you didnt read or care to read it. That is your fucking problem. You cant eyeball your alignment. You replaced a control arm, you should have taken it to get it aligned right afterwards.
So in conclusion, get an alignment when you get your next pair of tires.

[dongoesby]

Seriously? You said it yourself earlier...

I said it before and apparently you didnt read or care to read it. That is your fucking problem. You cant eyeball your alignment. You replaced a control arm, you should have taken it to get it aligned right afterwards.
So in conclusion, get an alignment when you get your next pair of tires.

I didn't eyeball my alignment smart ass.

If you do reading so carefully, read again. The question comes to a full alignment was done four months ago, professionally, by machines not eyeball for god sake.

The eyeball was necessary when I replace my ruca a month ago since the old one cracked. It was never meant to be perfect.

Either way, you never give any factual reason behind why toe eats tires. Everyone knows that, so no need to remention it. And the main question of the topic here is Azenis don't last (especially for my setup, power, lsd and driving style), period.

[LayNLow]

I didn't eyeball my alignment smart ass.

If you do reading so carefully, read again. The question comes to a full alignment was done four months ago, professionally, by machines not eyeball for god sake.

The eyeball was necessary when I replace my ruca a month ago since the old one cracked. It was never meant to be perfect.

Either way, you never give any factual reason behind why toe eats tires. Everyone knows that, so no need to remention it. And the main question of the topic here is Azenis don't last (especially for my setup, power, lsd and driving style), period.

You never said a thing about getting an alignment after putting on the new control arm. You just said you eyeballed it. Not my fault you didnt put the right info down.
Toe eats tires because the tires are either pushing against each other, or pushing away from each other. That in turn causes quicker wear than just camber alone.
I always have my car aligned with 0 toe all around for longevity.

[FaLKoN240]

I didn't eyeball my alignment smart ass.

If you do reading so carefully, read again. The question comes to a full alignment was done four months ago, professionally, by machines not eyeball for god sake.

The eyeball was necessary when I replace my ruca a month ago since the old one cracked. It was never meant to be perfect.

Either way, you never give any factual reason behind why toe eats tires. Everyone knows that, so no need to remention it. And the main question of the topic here is Azenis don't last (especially for my setup, power, lsd and driving style), period.

You can't blame a tire for not lasting a long time when you have your car aligned for sport driving when you're dailying it, or whatever the fuck you're doing.

Seriously wise up:

Either get an alignment that won't fuck up your tires

Get shitty tires and keep driving on your "awesome" alignment settings

Or

Keep throwing money down the drain, it's not the tires it's your goofy ass alignment.

I vote for a name change:

TIREGOESBYE

[Forge_55b]

if your tires look like that, you have a shit alignment. yes in 4 months it might have been perfect but alignments change, and yes they can change enough to kill your tires super fast(especially if soft like 615s). if you want to blame the lsd, please replace it with an open diff and see if 615s last any longer cause i highly doubt it will make any difference

[dongoesby]

since you guys insist so much on that 0.05 toe in causes the trouble, does any of you got first hand experience on that tire worn out for daily driving? I'm not comparing to those road racing or drifters that can kill their tires in just 3 to 4 runs. I understand rt615 are soft compound, but they are street tires nontheless. Also I'm not blaming everything on the LSD. Like said above, it could be a variable, and I'm trying to find more possibilities.

I completely concur to bad alignment yields to tire premature worn out, but the number 0.05 just seems too minimal to me. And if that is really the case (although I don't seem to understand right now), and I get shitty tires, this would have a 180 degree change?

Nice nick name by the way.

[Forge_55b]

its not cheap tires vs expensive tires or anything like that, its more about tire compounds and tire life. anyhow check that alignment again cause it seems like something is wrong and if it comes up right then the chassis might be jacked up i guess or bushings that are jacked causing your static alignment to no longer matter under load. for wear that rapid its really only the alignment that would do anything

fyi comparing your tire wear vs your friends Integ that probably has an open diff and a normal alignment isn't really much of a comparison to go by

[dongoesby]

my order of prothane bushing kit should arrive tomorrow. I will change all the rear bushings and see what happens. Maybe along with those baller racing bolt (http://www.ballerbolts.com/ni24resuboki.html) kit if i'm hardcore...

and refer to your earlier comments, Forge, I'm being so paranoid about the change of alignment right now. Because I know it changes. I cracked an RUCA before, so I know...everything changes if one thing changed in alignment. :(

[The Hamsterball]

rt615's don't last more than around 10,000 miles usually.
that's 200 treadwear for you.

any toe in the rear (however little it is) will cause the tire to wear quicker.
think about it. here look at this:

| | | | <--- zero toe in rear, tires are going completely straight when going
forward

// \\ <-- toe in. when car goes forward, the tires don't roll straight and are being dragged kind of sideways. (this is a very exaggerated example).

Just get an alignment, zero toe front and rear.
Run less camber so that you don't eat up your inside shoulders so quickly.
And definitely don't fill them up to 35 psi.
The lower the tire pressure, the more of a contact patch you'll have on the ground from tire surface to ground. Don't go too low though.

Do these things, and don't take freeway on ramps fast, and your azenis will last long.

[HyperTek]

yeah rt615 not good for daily .. i had em on my rx7 last year and didnt last 3months , i was commuting a good 50miles a day.. I won the tires @ a falken raffle and chose the 615s.. i had my choice of falken tires , should have chose another series. lol

[fliprayzin240sx]

yeah rt615 not good for daily .. i had em on my rx7 last year and didnt last 3months , i was commuting a good 50miles a day.. I won the tires @ a falken raffle and chose the 615s.. i had my choice of falken tires , should have chose another series. lol

You guys are smoking, I've a pair of RTs that I had up front and I've had that shit last me a year. Thats daily driving it and saw a couple gymkhanas. It was crap tires after 6 months since it got hard but it lasted for that long.

[BlitzRPS13]

Toe.. make sure it's set properly when you put tires on. /thread.

[frankist]

What makes you say the toe is off or even the suspension isn't traveling correct?

I did not adjust the ride height after alignment, that is for sure.

But i'm pretty sure the inside wear is due to negative camber. As for the outside "cupped", I'm thinking is done by sliding around...

To further this topic, what is good future tire I should buy? Considering this is my only rim for now, should I get a 255 instead of 235 to avoid premature wear? Does Potenza Re01 last longer? (I do intend to go to track/autox with same set of tires)

just how much were you sliding around. and how many miles did you really go in four months? there are too many variables, did you purchase/install all four tires at the same time? get an alignment somewhere else, and just buy another set of tires. 615s should last a while if everythings cool. just relax and keep driving.