post your wheel gap pictures!

[mvaters]

http://www.pepsishine.com/upload/bryn6.jpg

[Jsquared]

side pic (http://thewolfweb.com/photo_photo.aspx?user=1038&folder=My+S13&photo=124004&filter=)
diagonal rear pic (http://thewolfweb.com/photo_photo.aspx?user=1038&folder=My+S13&photo=124003&filter=)

and that was before the swap, with the SR in it's probably a half inch or more worse :D

(linked so people on 56k like me don't get clobbered :D )

[Bbandit]

before
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p86da4f2c47272c8c40012cc3e44a0b89/fbffae23.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/paec5d5e610a409c795668ba5592c3b5a/fbffae2d.jpg


after
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pfd18ff8b211b292560b061355029f3e6/fc0ad900.jpg

[Dousan_PG]

http://www.jdmrice.com/events/DD5/DD5_080.JPG

awaiting fender rolling
once done should be JUUUST about tucked (tire) :) hehehehe..

[DuffMan]

I have been degapified.
http://geocities.com/mgalant91/gap.html

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by DuffMan
I have been degapified.

Now you have the imfamous cavernous wheel well syndrome. :eek:

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
Now you have the imfamous cavernous wheel well syndrome. :eek:

:faint: hahahaha
even the fenders casts shadows on the wheels!

a 5mm would help a i bit, 10mm would be much nicer :)
im glad your gap free now Duffman!

[DuffMan]

True. Well actually the wheels that are on the back arent sunken in when they are on the front, but I had rubbing problems. In the back they do look a little sunken right now because i have mucho negative camber.

Time to get spacers :(

[Dousan_PG]

cool
how much camber you running in the back right now?

projectsilvia has great prices on spacer
5mm spacer, you wont need longer studs :)
10 you will
i think the max is like 6 or so mm..maybe 7mm, but i wouldnt go more then 5mm :) until you get bolt ons, there are people who use 40mm ones haha..

[DuffMan]

I'm not sure, need to get a camber gauge and start messing arround with it.


I was pretty amazed at how much room the tein HE's take up in the front. I'm going to need a 10mm there just to clear. I guess 225's are the widest you can fit in front with stock fenders, non-rolled. And even that is a close fit.

[Dousan_PG]

got any rear shots? im pertty acurrate w/ the eye gauge haha..i've had -1.5 -2., -2.5 -3.5 and -4 on my car haha..
going back to some setups that seem to work great..waiting for rear toe links for perfection

HEs? cool.

yeah front clearnce isnt so hot. what is your wheels size/offset?
higher then 225 will fit, depend on size/offset of wheel

[DuffMan]

Here's the camber shot.

[Dousan_PG]

ah i'd guess -2.75 to -3.5

be sure to get alignment. if you went from stock to that much camber you'll get a lot of goofy (bad) toe....in? i think..i forget which you get w/ camber going negative..i really think you get toe in. be careful!

[DuffMan]

Yeah. It got a little squirely on an offramp today. I dont think i will be keeping it at that much neg camber though.

[Dousan_PG]

the squirlyness is NOT the camber, its the toe
i got -4 camber rear, -3.5 front (toe in front, like 2mm toe out rear) and the car is SOLID in the twisties (mountains/track/grip/street etc)

[sykikchimp]

I think your probably closer to +2-2.5.. gotta account for the car being angled in the picture.. Besides I don't think the stock setup will allow for much more than that without UACA's.

I have 1 degree of negative camber in the back. If you (duffman) are lowered more than about 1.5"'s then your toe is bad. I have about 1/16". I would guess that you probably have close to 1/8" in. If so, that's pretty bad. I don't even like having that much. 0 toe is a good thing.

Dousan, rear toe in shouldn't cause a squirelly rearend. It should actually make it more stable. Toe out should cause small changes in direction or steering inputs to cause more immediate changes in the vehicles attitude. Toe in will increase stability in a straight line, and will decrease turn in response.

Depending on how the car is set up, too much camber could make the car more loose (smaller contact patch), but it should break away smoother.

[Dousan_PG]

toe in, i thought it 'grabs' lines more on the road? or was taht toe out?
i like toe in..in fact, i LOVE toe in. feels sooooo good. just a tad though, not overkill.

i have too much camber, imho. going back to -2.5 camber allaround, a weee bit of toe in in front and done :) whew
gotta get fenders rolled FIRST :)


so, auto-xers use toe in in the front for faster turn in?
toe out causes more 'drag'?

[mvaters]

my server crapped out

http://www.members.aol.com/emmceface/images/bryn6.jpg

[-T-]

Originally posted by mvaters
my server crapped out

http://www.members.aol.com/emmceface/images/bryn6.jpg

niiice :bowdown:

[AceInHole]

so.... how much would Zeal B6's lower my car??? :drool:

anyways, i think my drop may be depicted in my sig....

[Bbandit]

yea.. i need to roll my fenders a bit too..
my dunlop sticks out a bit..
now i need to find a metal baseball bat to roll the fenders :eek: :aw:

[TheSparo]

Originally posted by mvaters
my server crapped out

http://www.members.aol.com/emmceface/images/bryn6.jpg

do u have a pic of the side of the car? u really cant tell w/o the whole car pic, but i can tell it does look very nice!!

[NiteKids]

Yep Konigs!

[NiteKids]

http://members.aol.com/IntegraTypeR2001/FN1.jpg

[veilsideS14]

Bong.

http://24.163.137.145/05032003/05032003/DSCN3868.jpg

[mvaters]

nope, no more pics, take some tomorrow

[WhiteNissanS13]

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/333000-333999/333906_44_full.gif
http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/333000-333999/333906_45_full.gif

[-E-]

:D
http://streetchallenge.com/uploadpix/up/240gap.jpg

http://streetchallenge.com/uploadpix/up/gap2402.JPG

[DoriftoSlut]

This is my car in the air. It will be lower once it gets on the ground. :drool: :boink:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p0bcfffded74d1f60ccd71b285ae85e34/fc326985.jpg

[azn_romeox]

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
This is my car in the air. It will be lower once it gets on the ground. :drool: :boink:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p0bcfffded74d1f60ccd71b285ae85e34/fc326985.jpg

http://www.members.aol.com/emmceface/images/bryn6.jpg


Damn... Look at that gap when its in the air. Imagine when its on the ground!

Are those fm905? I have those tires I think. They have lots of road noise but they perform good ;0



http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid42/pc9919fcdd88fdd335c220c384d99fb44/fcf170af.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/p234361815046eb87d80b98556d2940b2/fcb81e9e.jpg

Theres mine on the ground!

[DuffMan]

Using a photo editor, I think my rear camber is arround -2.75ish. Agreed that the toe is causing the squireliness. Lowering causes toe OUT, and its especially exagerated on cars with the Nissan's multilink rear. This is what causes the "passive rear steering" effect that 240's/300's/skylines are famous for. When weight shifts durring turning the outside wheel toes out due to compression of the spring and the inside lifts and toes in. That and the subframe bushings are why the S-chassis can be unpredictable with the soft stock suspension settings.

[West]

So sad its gone... :(

http://www.zilvia.net/rides/west/8.jpg

I dont have any pics of my s13's gap.

[sykikchimp]

Exactly the opposite duff.. It creates toe in upon compression to facilitate a more stable corner.

As you can see in this picture:
http://charles.sykikchimp.org/images/JICMagic/allen.jpg

The forward toe link moves through an upward motion arc. as suspension comresses, the link swings further up, decreasing the distance b/w the front of the knuckle, and the chassis. = Toe in.

the fact that the toe link moves through a constant radius arc is why the passive steering effect gets bad when you lower the car. As the link swings further upward, the toe changes go up exponentialy. So if your car is at sock height, and the suspension compresses 1.5 inches you might get 1/16" toe in. If your already 1.5" down, and you compress another 1.5 inches, the change would be more like 1/8" (from being corrected to 0 after lowering)

In this diagram you can see that as the angle of the toe link relative to the subframe increases, the distance b/w the knuckle and that same subframe mounting point must decrease at a faster rate.

(exagerated to illustrate my point better)
http://charles.sykikchimp.org/images/reartoelink.jpg
(sorry for the size of the file)

Toe out descriptions from advancedracing.com (cause they explain it better):

So if minimum tire wear and power loss are achieved with zero toe, why have any toe angles at all? The answer is that toe settings have a major impact on directional stability. The illustrations at right show the mechanisms involved. With the steering wheel centered, toe-in causes the wheels to tend to roll along paths that intersect each other. Under this condition, the wheels are at odds with each other, and no turn results.

When the wheel on one side of the car encounters a disturbance, that wheel is pulled rearward about its steering axis. This action also pulls the other wheel in the same steering direction. If it's a minor disturbance, the disturbed wheel will steer only a small amount, perhaps so that it's rolling straight ahead instead of toed-in slightly. But note that with this slight steering input, the rolling paths of the wheels still don't describe a turn. The wheels have absorbed the irregularity without significantly changing the direction of the vehicle. In this way, toe-in enhances straight-line stability.

If the car is set up with toe-out, however, the front wheels are aligned so that slight disturbances cause the wheel pair to assume rolling directions that do describe a turn. Any minute steering angle beyond the perfectly centered position will cause the inner wheel to steer in a tighter turn radius than the outer wheel. Thus, the car will always be trying to enter a turn, rather than maintaining a straight line of travel. So it's clear that toe-out encourages the initiation of a turn, while toe-in discourages it.

With four-wheel independent suspension, the toe must also be set at the rear of the car. Toe settings at the rear have essentially the same effect on wear, directional stability and turn-in as they do on the front. However, it is rare to set up a rear-drive race car toed out in the rear, since doing so causes excessive oversteer, particularly when power is applied. Front-wheel-drive race cars, on the other hand, are often set up with a bit of toe-out, as this induces a bit of oversteer to counteract the greater tendency of front-wheel-drive cars to understeer.

For more:
http://www.advancedracing.com/grmart1.html

edit - just trying to make it more understandable.

[Dousan_PG]

MARK! i miss your car!!! :( i remember i first joined zilvia and your car...sniff.so beautiful :(

[DuffMan]

Hmm, I guess I have been thinking about it wrong all along. Anyways, I think I will just try to ghetto tape measure align it to zero toe and see how that works.

[Dousan_PG]

its very hard to do rear toe yourself
eccentric bolts SUCK
and you need to find a centerline of car first
if you get the rear done by a shop to pefect, the front is VERY easy to do yourself!

[sykikchimp]

a couple 2x4's in 4ft or longer work well for the el cheapo home alignment. Any way to exagerate the toe will work though.

[240Driver39]

mine, kyb agx's w/ whiteline springs

front
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pde8b028137b248f9ca9252332f8df361/fc48780e.jpg
rear
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p752d8e1668c764625ae58e665e2086c6/fc48780c.jpg

im very happy with teh setup, and the associated drop was good for me