Supertech VS. CP pistons ( or others)

[brian3676]

I could suck at searching but I cant find anything on supertech pistons for the SR engine. Just got a s14 SR that had some good detonation so it needs to be bored to 87mm.I was looking around and came across some Supertechs. I know there valve terrane is very nice stuff. I can find reviews on honda, subaru and other engine's for them, but none on there SR pistons. I am asking because they are $150 cheaper. I know cheap and motor build dont go, but im not being cheap I just am woundering what the bad side of supertech is that causes more people to not use them. Supertech is 4032 alloy and CP is 2618 HI vs. LOW silcone,but both ballanced with-in +/- 1g. The supertech ones are phalsphate coated. Why does everyone choose CP though? Anyonehave any opinions?

[Master Chief]

Dont know about SuperTech, but CP's, are LOW Silicon Content.

Do a search on google about LOW vs HIGH silicon content pistons.

From my research, amongs all the LOW Silicon pistons offred for the SR20, CP's are the one that allow for the smallest clerance (piston to wall) - 0.0035", while the rest require a nominal clerance of 0.0040"...... Smaller clerances, less slap, more life span, etc...

[brian3676]

Good article i just found

The two main types of forged aluminum pistons are 2618 aluminum alloy and 4032 aluminum alloy. Either type can be used in street or race-only applications but there are a few differences. The 2618 alloys used by many of the aftermarket piston manufacturers have a low to zero silicon content. The 4032 alloy forged pistons have a higher silicon content but still much less than what is found in the stock eutectic and hypereutectic cast aluminum alloy pistons found in the stock Zetec and Duratec.

The amount of silicon is directly proportional to how ductile the piston is, or in simple terms how "hard" or "soft" the alloy is. While a high silicon content piston like the stock units are technically stronger since the alloy has a tighter bond at the molecular level, they're also more brittle and don't stand up to detonation as well as a forged piston with less silicon content. That is one of the primary benefits of a forged piston over a cast piston in that they are somewhat softer and can absorb the occasional mild detonation better than a cast piston. If detonation is too severe, exhaust gas temps too elevated, or a combination of both you can still kill a forged piston but they're generally more tolerant.

The other reason a forged aftermarket piston is better for forced induction applications is due to the design of the stock piston. The stock cast pistons in a naturally aspirated engine are generally light weight to reduce rotating assembly mass which is better for performance and economy but that means there usually isn't as much material in key locations to help keep the piston from deforming when cylinder pressures go up once boost is applied. The stock pistons also generally have very small ring lands with the rings placed close to the top of or "crown" of the piston. This helps with emissions by minimizing the space between the piston and the cylinder bore of the block above the upper compression ring where un-burnt fuel and hydrocarbons can get trapped. Combined with rings that may not be optimal for forced induction and any severe detonation under boost can lead to damaging the ring and/or ring land.


Back to the forged alloy pistons, as mentioned earlier, the 2618 alloys have a lower silicon content than the 4032 alloy and the 2618 alloy is therefore softer. This means the piston will wear out faster than some of the higher silicon content alloys like the 4032. They also have greater thermal expansion and need looser bore clearances to allow for expansion as they heat up. This causes many of the forged pistons to have "piston slap" when cold. This is basically the piston moving around in the bore until it warms up and expands and it sounds like a slapping sound as the name implies. It won't damage anything but can be annoying on a daily driver and you really need to be careful to fully warm the engine up before driving it hard (which is best for any engine but especially important on one with these types of forged pistons).


CP primarily uses a 2618 alloy as does many of the other piston makers. Their alloy is low silicon content like most JE, Wiseco and other pistons designed for forced induction applications. Venolia on the other hand favors a zero silicon content 2618 alloy that can stand up to slightly more abuse but technically may wear out faster and have more piston slap (and by shorter service life that could be 50k, 75k or even 100k or more on a daily driver depending on how the car is driven).

There are only a couple sources in the industry for the raw piston blanks or "slugs" a forged piston is machined from, so the material can be essentially the same between aftermarket piston companies with the main difference in the design and machining. CP has very good machining and if the design is strong and catered towards your usage and power goals I wouldn't have any reservations running them.

[brian3676]

Dont know about SuperTech, but CP's, are LOW Silicon Content.

Do a search on google about LOW vs HIGH silicon content pistons.

From my research, amongs all the LOW Silicon pistons offred for the SR20, CP's are the one that allow for the smallest clerance (piston to wall) - 0.0035", while the rest require a nominal clerance of 0.0040"...... Smaller clerances, less slap, more life span, etc...

Sorry haha, edited my post, anyway from what i find a higher silicone content is not as strong defending against detonation as the lower, however the higher silicone will last longer....

This taken from http://www.mustangandfords.com/shop4parts/mdmp_081008_mahle_piston_alloy_comparison/index.html

Piston Alloy Comparison
4032 ---------------------------------2618
High silicon------------------------ No silicon
Low expansion ---------------------High expansion
Tighter piston-to-wall clearance ----More Piston-to-wall clearance needed
Quiet Operation --------------- ----Noise when cold
Less ductile-------------------- ---More ductile
More stable & consistent----------- Higher resistance to detonation
Longer life cycle-------------- ----- Shorter life cycles
Harder ---------------------------- Softer


So after all this i have decided with supertechs. Now my question is why do people use the CP's....I understand why full drift cars do, but 99% of us on this site DD our car........ Did you just choose CP because they are "cool"? or what made you choose to go with a 2618 piston over 4032

[Master Chief]

You answered your own question i think :
"i find a higher silicone content is not as strong defending against detonation as the lower"

CP's i one of the best quality pistons i have ever seen - and i've seen quite a few.
For high power applications - I want low as possible silicone content.
CP's, have the tightest piston to wall clerances, then all the other LOW silicon content.

Soo...CP's in my opinion, are the best of both worlds:
As tight clerances as possible.
Low silicone, wich means less brittle, and better to withstand detonation.

The only benefith (not cost wise) of HIGH silicon content pistons, is the ability to run very tight piston to wall clerances, wich means - less blow by and less noise.
Important for OEM meaby, but not for performance engines.

The "Wear out faster" theory, is neglegable.
The main wear, will be from the slight slapping when the engine is cold (provided tuning is spot on) - and this is bull shit.
Exept that, the piston skirt should ride on a thin film of oil, with minimal contact with the cylinder, while the top of the piston should never come into contact with the cylinder - so unless your builder suck's, you should not worry about "WEAR".

I say, got with CP, and never look back.

Remeber, that in the end, most of the time, you get what you pay for.
(That does not include paying stupid amounts of money, for a "BRAND" name).

I just took my CP pistons out, from a 530hp SR20DET - and exept the damaged cylinder piston #1, wich happend because coolant got in - the rest, were in perfect condition - and they got beat quite severly during this engie's life time - about 2.5 years.

[Odysseus]

Hoping the Supertechs that my SR now has work out well for me haha

[Master Chief]

I belive there will be nothing wrong with them, as long as the tuning is right, and the installation was correct.

It all comes down to tuning and machine work, at the end.

[lewisfk]

I'm runing Mahle PowerPak Pistions! The have a long race history, and i found out they are used more comonly overseas vs the cp pistons. Here is the link for the info on the psitons i'm using! Plus there coated and balanced before they are sent to u, with rings!
Mahle PowerPak Pistons - Nissan SR20DET [ NIS253405I12 ] - Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication (http://www.enjukuracing.com/mahle-powerpak-pistons-nissan-sr20det-p-7118.html)

[brian3676]

Hoping the Supertechs that my SR now has work out well for me haha

Haha is your car even done yet? i have not heard anything!

Master Chief:

And i build my own motors, have built my fair share of them. Of course i have a machine shop do the boring, honing ect.... I have just never really looked into the silicone %'s and how it can effect the longtivity of the engine. I would be intrested to know the exact ratios of silicone in each piston manufacture.

What your saying is CP has the highest amount of silicone for a 2618 alloy piston am i correct?

[Odysseus]

No :(

Haha it keeps getting pushed back...This time it was because Jason and I got our signals mixed and he ordered me a Greddy oil pan when I wanted a Moroso. But it will be this upcoming week...I hope.

[nismo tuned s14]

I had Supertech Pistons on my KA24DET. The snap ring that holds the piston to the pin broke, creating a 1.5mm groove in my cylinder wall. I had to tear down the engine to the bare block and have a machine shop put sleeves in the cylinder walls, since my engine was already bored to 89.5mm. It was a very expensive repair. I'd definitely go with CP.

[Master Chief]

"What your saying is CP has the highest amount of silicone for a 2618 alloy piston am i correct?"

No, this is not what iam saying, as i do not have info about the % of silicone used in 2618 alloy or by CP.

What i am saying, is the CP allows for the smallest clerances to be used, compared with others of the same type (2618 alloy) Pistons, like JE and such.
This could have to do with the % of silicone they use, or with there machine work or design.

Also, CP pistons were the closest weight matched piston set, i have ever saw - in all the CP piston sets i had - within less then 0.5 gram from each other.
JE, for example, were the worst - sometimes more the 1 gram apart.


MAHLE as far as i remeber, are also LOW silicone content.
Also they have problems suppling the right pistons. Some had to machine the oil squirter clerance in the piston skirt, etc...

Good luck.

[SxMachine]

I had Supertech Pistons on my KA24DET. The snap ring that holds the piston to the pin broke, creating a 1.5mm groove in my cylinder wall. I had to tear down the engine to the bare block and have a machine shop put sleeves in the cylinder walls, since my engine was already bored to 89.5mm. It was a very expensive repair. I'd definitely go with CP.
Not to be funny but you actually REPAIRED a ka? Their pretty much free to replace.

I recommend supertech, most of my kat buddies run with them and a lot of the honda kids as well (not that thats reasurring lol)
I plan on using supertechs in my dd sr just 2 replace the stock pistons. I dont do alot of hard driving/drifting or racing on the reg and my power goals are modest. ST ftw

[Turbo Nismo]

I was going yo buy Supertech pistons, but I decided to buy Wiseco pistons for my KA24DE, I still haven't finished the project yet. But thanks for the info of the pistons guys.

[dts13]

Im running supertech pistons in my kadet for over a year now on my dd/track. Havn't ran into any problems so far. As far as noise and running conditions, feels smoother than some of my friends stock ka, with urethane engine mounts too.

[rubhamusan]

Only problem I had with supertech was the ka wrist pins were heat treated stainless and not tool steel. They Snapped on a few ka's over 500hp. Not always but a couple times.
I even talked to the head guys there. He is the one that told me what the wrist pins were made of.