Fuck your flag pole and your medal of honor.

[cc4usmc]

Article: http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/ne...201/309031/P0/

Col. Van T. Barfoot, a local Medal of Honor winner, is under the gun from his Henrico County community's homeowner association.

In a five-paragraph letter to Barfoot that he received yesterday, Barfoot is being ordered to remove a flagpole from his yard. The decorated veteran of three wars, now 90 years old, raises the American flag every morning on the pole, then lowers and folds the flag at dusk each day in a three-corner military fashion.

In a priority mail letter, the Coates & Davenport law firm in Richmond is ordering Barfoot to remove the pole by 5 p.m. Friday or face "legal action being brought to enforce the Covenants and Restrictions against you." The letter states that Barfoot will be subject to paying all legal fees and costs in any successful legal proceeding pursued by the homeowner association's board.

Barfoot lives in the Sussex Square community in far western Henrico; its board of directors rejected a plea from Barfoot in July to approve the pole, disallowing the fixture on aesthetic grounds.

There is no provision in the community's rules expressly forbidding flagpoles, Barfoot's daughter said. But she said the board ruled against her father's fixture and ordered it removed in July, deciding that free-standing flag poles are not aesthetically appropriate. Short flag stands attached to porches dot the community.

"Dad sort of feels like this is the end," said Margaret Nicholls, Barfoot's daughter, who lives a few doors away. But she said this morning that she and her husband are attempting to generate support for her father's cause, a flag-raising rite that he has undertaken for most of his life.

Barfoot received the Medal of Honor on the battlefield during World War II in Italy and fought as well in the Korean and Vietnam wars. A portion of a highway in rural Mississippi, his native state, was named in his honor this fall. A building at McGuire Veterans Hospital in Richmond also carries his name.

Barfoot began regularly flying the flag on Veteran's Day this year despite the Sussex Square board's decision.

He said in November that not flying the flag would be a sacrilege to him.

"There's never been a day in my life or a place I've lived in my life that you couldn't fly the American flag," he said.

For more on this story, see tomorrow's Richmond Times-Dispatch.

-- Bill McKelway

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His citation:
Citation For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty on 23 May 1944, near Carano, Italy.
With his platoon heavily engaged during an assault against forces well entrenched on commanding ground, 2d Lt. Barfoot (then Tech. Sgt.) moved off alone upon the enemy left flank.
He crawled to the proximity of 1 machinegun nest and made a direct hit on it with a hand grenade, killing 2 and wounding 3 Germans. He continued along the German defense line to another machinegun emplacement, and with his tommygun killed 2 and captured 3 soldiers.
Members of another enemy machinegun crew then abandoned their position and gave themselves up to Sgt. Barfoot. Leaving the prisoners for his support squad to pick up, he proceeded to mop up positions in the immediate area, capturing more prisoners and bringing his total count to 17.

Later that day, after he had reorganized his men and consolidated the newly captured ground, the enemy launched a fierce armored counterattack directly at his platoon positions.
Securing a bazooka, Sgt. Barfoot took up an exposed position directly in front of 3 advancing Mark VI tanks. From a distance of 75 yards his first shot destroyed the track of the leading tank, effectively disabling it, while the other 2 changed direction toward the flank.
As the crew of the disabled tank dismounted, Sgt. Barfoot killed 3 of them with his tommygun. He continued onward into enemy terrain and destroyed a recently abandoned German fieldpiece with a demolition charge placed in the breech.

While returning to his platoon position, Sgt. Barfoot, though greatly fatigued by his Herculean efforts, assisted 2 of his seriously wounded men 1,700 yards to a position of safety. Sgt. Barfoot's extraordinary heroism, demonstration of magnificent valor, and aggressive determination in the face of pointblank fire are a perpetual inspiration to his fellow soldiers.




I'm really curious to certain members of this site think about this. Poor old man, I hope he wins.

[azndoc]

I hope he wins too.

Surviving MOH recipients are rare these days. To get one means that basically you are the shit.

I mean if your a private the lowest of the enlisted and you've earned a MOH fucking 4 star Generals have to salute you. Do you know how much honor that carries with it.

I say let this guy raise his flag morning and and sundown all he wants. He's given enough to this country to earn that right.

People have bleed and died for the American flag, it should be just that it is raised to remind us all of that everyday. Instead we're more concern about what Lady Gaga is wearing for the next awards show.

[ThatGuy]

This is completely outrageous.

I cannot even begin to fathom this level of stupidity and disrespect on the part of the Home Owners Association.

Fuck your Home Owners Association!

[BustedS13]

i will never move into a subdivision with a home owners' association. bunch of fucking shitheads.
my buddy's parents live next to this dude... he had a sailboat in his back yard, and the HOA made him move it off his property, so he put up a couple flagpoles behind his fence with sailboat sails on them, and then redid his yard and exterior of his house in a nautical theme. little rope fence around his front yard, lifesavers all over the fence, an anchor in the front yard, a huge lit sign over the garage that said "dry dock", and so on and so forth. and he's on the front corner lot of the subdivision, so anybody looking to buy a house in the neighborhood sees him first.
dude's a total asshole but it was really, really funny.

[SexPanda]

Now thats just fucked up. His actions and the actions of everyone in WWII made it to possible for those assholes in HOA's to dictate their ideals of perfection to anyone living in their property.

Let him keep his flag. Let him wave it proudly for everyone to see.

[mr.lonelys12]

He completed two call of duty missions on Veteran in one day, what a savage!


if the home owners association does not have a full out public apology asap. thats beyond fucked up.

[demonspeed]

a living MOH recipient? those dudes need to be kissing his ass

[DALAZ_68]

I hope he wins too.

Surviving MOH recipients are rare these days. To get one means that basically you are the shit.

I mean if your a private the lowest of the enlisted and you've earned a MOH fucking 4 star Generals have to salute you. Do you know how much honor that carries with it.

I say let this guy raise his flag morning and and sundown all he wants. He's given enough to this country to earn that right.

People have bleed and died for the American flag, it should be just that it is raised to remind us all of that everyday. Instead we're more concern about what Lady Gaga is wearing for the next awards show.

This is completely outrageous.

I cannot even begin to fathom this level of stupidity and disrespect on the part of the Home Owners Association.

Fuck your Home Owners Association!

i will never move into a subdivision with a home owners' association. bunch of fucking shitheads.
my buddy's parents live next to this dude... he had a sailboat in his back yard, and the HOA made him move it off his property, so he put up a couple flagpoles behind his fence with sailboat sails on them, and then redid his yard and exterior of his house in a nautical theme. little rope fence around his front yard, lifesavers all over the fence, an anchor in the front yard, a huge lit sign over the garage that said "dry dock", and so on and so forth. and he's on the front corner lot of the subdivision, so anybody looking to buy a house in the neighborhood sees him first.
dude's a total asshole but it was really, really funny.

Now thats just fucked up. His actions and the actions of everyone in WWII made it to possible for those assholes in HOA's to dictate their ideals of perfection to anyone living in their property.

Let him keep his flag. Let him wave it proudly for everyone to see.

He completed two call of duty missions on Veteran in one day, what a savage!


if the home owners association does not have a full out public apology asap. thats beyond fucked up.

a living MOH recipient? those dudes need to be kissing his ass

agree with everyone...shits fucking stupid, fuck HOA...waiste

[fuk240sx]

FUCK that HOA....i hope he wins....

The shit people do nowadays is fucking ridiculous at times. If the flag of the country that you live in and provides for you is not aesthetically pleasing you should be sent to live in Afghanistan. Fuck that shit!

[Sleepy240]

While I agree that he deserves to be able to present the flag, nobody forced him to live in a community that has a HOA. And sadly the HOA has control, not him. That is why many people choose NOT to live in those areas. As much as I wish he would win, its not going to happen.

[cc4usmc]

^ There's one of the answers I was waiting for.

[Otto347]

America...........................I just am not surprised anymore by anything like this.


On a side note, whoever is behind making this man take his flag down should be fucking gutted and decapitated.

[DataXUnknown]

^^But the thing is, there is NOTHING in the HOA manual stating you cannot put up such a flagpole.

[Brian]

I wish this was a fake story.... but I couldn't be that lucky anymore.

A lot of people REALLY need to pull their head out of their ass.
Why don't they just kick and spit on the guy too?

The disrespect these days to those that serve our country is simply mind blowing.

[Sleepy240]

I wish this was a fake story.... but I couldn't be that lucky anymore.

A lot of people REALLY need to pull their head out of their ass.
Why don't they just kick and spit on the guy too?

The disrespect these days to those that serve our country is simply mind blowing.

It has nothing to do with the guy in all honesty, him being a MOH Veteran has no bearing on whether he can put a flag up or not. The HOA decided that nobody can have free-standing flag poles in their yard in that area. That goes for the families living on either side of him to.

[Brian]

yeah.... I understand the "rule".
However, it's a huge FUCK YOU to the veteran

[Sleepy240]

yeah.... I understand the "rule".
However, it's a huge FUCK YOU to the veteran

No its not... Because again it doesn't matter if the guy is a veteran or not. They are not targeting "veterans" its a blanket for EVERYBODY who lives there. If he doesn't like it, MOVE. To be honest HOA do this EVERYWHERE and the only reason this gets any press at all is because the guy is a veteran, its a shame.

[cc4usmc]

no rule.. ruling.

If I understand correctly, there is no rule that states he cant have the pole. After it was up, they decided it wasn't pretty so they want him to take it down.

[Brian]

I think you kind of miss the whole point.

Yes, you are "right", so to speak, but at the same time you are so wrong also.

It's kind of like those lawyers and whatnot who look at fine print and interpretations to screw people out of stuff.

[Brian]

If I understand correctly, there is no rule that states he cant have the pole. After it was up, they decided it wasn't pretty so they want him to take it down.

yeah, that's true, so in my opinion it's even MORE of a fuck you to the guy.

:(

[codyace]

Lets assume the Vet doesn't remove the pole, and lets assume the Vet doesn't pay 'fines' to the homeowners association....what the hell can they even do to him?

[Sleepy240]

He can still easily hang a flag from his porch like everybody else. The problem is if this article was about anything other than a veteran like I said, I think people would just say he should take it down and be down with it.

[codyace]

It's kind of like those lawyers and whatnot who look at fine print and interpretations to screw people out of stuff.

Ah yes, lawyers not so much concerned with 'doing the right thing', only 'getting their client in the clear'

[Sleepy240]

Lets assume the Vet doesn't remove the pole, and lets assume the Vet doesn't pay 'fines' to the homeowners association....what the hell can they even do to him?

Take him to court, make him pay to remove it, pay all of the court fees etc.

[Sleepy240]

Ah yes, lawyers not so much concerned with 'doing the right thing', only 'getting their client in the clear'

Not to nit pick, but if I was in any kind of trouble thats EXACTLY what I would want my lawyer to do... Maybe your different

[codyace]

Take him to court, make him pay to remove it, pay all of the court fees etc.

See, I don't live in such a situation so I'm not 100% how they work, but I just wouldn't go...

[cc4usmc]

Crap, forgot about this.

Read The Bill: H.R. 42 [109th] - GovTrack.us (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-42)


A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

[Brian]

I think the fact that he IS a veteran.... and QUITE a veteran at that, makes this story ALL the more important.

[codyace]

Not to nit pick, but if I was in any kind of trouble thats EXACTLY what I would want my lawyer to do... Maybe your different

I'd rather not be a fuck up and be in the wrong to begin with, so maybe I am different.

[Sleepy240]

See, I don't live in such a situation so I'm not 100% how they work, but I just wouldn't go...

Then you end up with a bench warrant, and eventually being arrested if you choose not to show up and/or pay

[jorge1190]

HOA are a real pain, in our old neighborhood we got a letter that if we didnt clean the driveway we were gonna be fined repeadetly until it happened. They also told my mom she had to apply for a permit to replace the dead plants in the front yard....

[codyace]

Then you end up with a bench warrant, and eventually being arrested if you choose not to show up and/or pay

All from a HOA...unbelievable. I'll stick to dealing with a township lol.

[Sleepy240]

I think the fact that he IS a veteran.... and QUITE a veteran at that, makes this story ALL the more important.

Nope I completely disagree, just because somebody is a veteran does not give them any kind of special rights. Should we allow him to break any other rules while we are at it?

[ronmcdon]

If I understand correctly, there is no rule that states he cant have the pole. After it was up, they decided it wasn't pretty so they want him to take it down.

Supposedly it was on the grounds that it wasn't 'aesthetically pleasing'.
which pretty much means they can say whatever they want, regardless of rules.

HOA's are pretty much Nazis everywhere.
If there was some clear rule that was broken, then I would be more tempted to side with the HOA.
However, I don't think it's right to make up the rules as you go along.
That's just bullying.
It's not like it's easy to sell your house and move.

I hope a legal battle ensues, and the guy wins.
It not right that HOAs can push ppl around this way.

There is no provision in the community's rules expressly forbidding flagpoles, Barfoot's daughter said. But she said the board ruled against her father's fixture and ordered it removed in July, deciding that free-standing flag poles are not aesthetically appropriate. Short flag stands attached to porches dot the community.

[codyace]

Nope I completely disagree, just because somebody is a veteran does not give them any kind of special rights. Should we allow him to break any other rules while we are at it?

Don't confuse rights with respect

[Brian]

Sleepy240 - Not going to argue with you anymore.
You're not wrong with what you're saying, but Jesus Christ, people who think like you really worry me. :/

Bottom line, for people to tell a veteran of multiple wars that he cannot choose how to display the American flag, is one of the most messed up things I have ever heard of. This man spent years of his life to ensure freedom for ALL Americans, including those who haven't even been born yet, is being denied the opportunity to display the American flag how he wants. How freaking disgraceful and disrespectful can people be? He probably saw friends and fellow Americans DIE right next to him, and now people in his HOA are telling him he cannot have a flag pole with the American flag.

I hope this HOA gets 2 tons of mail telling them how ridiculous they are being.

[Sleepy240]

Supposedly it was on the grounds that it wasn't 'aesthetically pleasing'.
which pretty much means they can say whatever they want, regardless of rules.

HOA's are pretty much Nazis everywhere.

Exactly, HOA's play it by ear and make their own rules. That is why its easier just not to live in those areas. Although they tend to be MUCH nicer areas since all the homes are well taken care of. It is without a doubt more aesthetically pleasing. The development I live in has an HOA and it makes for a wonderful area, I plan on living raising a family here with that being one of the reasons.

[Sleepy240]

That is the point Brian is trying to get across, hes confusing RESPECT with RIGHTS. The veteran has all my respect, but that doesn't make his rights any different than mine.

[cc4usmc]

Don't confuse rights with respect

If I was Sleepy240, this is what I would say to that:

Veterans do not deserve any more respect that anyone else.


You're not wrong with what you're saying, but Jesus Christ, people who think like you really worry me. :/

Looks like people missed my other post soooo

Crap, forgot about this.

Read The Bill: H.R. 42 [109th] - GovTrack.us (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-42)


A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

[codyace]

Sleepy240 - Not going to argue with you anymore.
You're not wrong with what you're saying, but Jesus Christ, people who think like you really worry me. :/

It's always easier to post like a hardass on Zilvia, than a human being. Duh.


I'm with ya Brian, there's a certain degree of respect we should all have for guys of his military accreditation. For the HOA to do this to the MOH winner, regardless of the community bylaws, is plain disrepectful.

[Brian]

cc4usmc - Didn't miss it. Saw it and read it. I'm in favor of the Veteran in case you didn't know.

[Sleepy240]

It's always easier to post like a hardass on Zilvia, than a human being. Duh.


I'm with ya Brian, there's a certain degree of respect we should all have for guys of his military accreditation. For the HOA to do this to the MOH winner, regardless of the community bylaws, is plain disrepectful.

If you bend for one person, the rest will expect you to bend for them also. And that defeats the whole purpose of the HOA for a community. So what if the guy next to him is Korean and to display a North Korean flag? Or he has some Arabians across the street who want to display their nations flags?

[codyace]

That is the point Brian is trying to get across, hes confusing RESPECT with RIGHTS. The veteran has all my respect, but that doesn't make his rights any different than mine.

It's a flag pole. A simple flag pole

It's not like the guy was picked up in West Reading for selling meth and we think the community should grant a reprieve ya know?

[cc4usmc]

cc4usmc - Didn't miss it. Saw it and read it. I'm in favor of the Veteran in case you didn't know.

I know, I've just noticed that a certain someone keeps posting like they haven't seen it.

[Sleepy240]

cc4usmc - Didn't miss it. Saw it and read it. I'm in favor of the Veteran in case you didn't know.

Personally I wish he could display the flag, but like I said he WILL LOSE. Hes under the same guidelines as anybody else.

[cc4usmc]

Personally I wish he could display the flag, but like I said he WILL LOSE. Hes under the same guidelines as anybody else.

See Brian, he hasn't seen it.

And I'm suurrrrreeee you wish he could display it. :squint:

[Sleepy240]

See Brian, he hasn't seen it.

And I'm suurrrrreeee you wish he could display it.

Yes I have seen what you posted... I do.

The problem is way to many of you guys live in a Fantasy World. Welcome to real world, things aren't always fair and definitely aren't always right

[codyace]

Personally I wish he could display the flag, but like I said he WILL LOSE. Hes under the same guidelines as anybody else.

My only sentiments are this: There are many situations in life where rules are meant to be broken (heck, even look at the concept of the living constitution). I believe in this situation it would be wiser for the HOA to look past the rules they have put into place, and grant the the exception for this particular gentleman. Obviously life isn't fair, but three is more to this situation than simply abiding by the HOA guidelines. Again, it's not like he's raising cattle on his front lawn, or growing pot out back....

[Brian]

See Brian, he hasn't seen it.

I see what you mean. lol

[codyace]

Yes I have seen what you posted... I do.

The problem is way to many of you guys live in a Fantasy World. Welcome to real world, things aren't always fair and definitely aren't always right

Which is why i'd be a proponent of this guy saying 'sit on it' to the HOA and doing as he wishes, knowing Federal law is on his side.

[cc4usmc]

The problem is way to many of you guys live in a Fantasy World. Welcome to real world, things aren't always fair and definitely aren't always right

Fantasy world eh? The only reason why it a "Fantasy World" is because of people like you.

[Sleepy240]

Also to cc4usmc if you would reread what you have copy and pasted from Read The Bill: H.R. 42 [109th] - GovTrack.us. The HOA is allowing him to display the flag like everyone else via a porch post. All they are in effect is denying his free standing flag pole which they are in perfect right to do so. Perhaps you should have read what you posted ;)

[ryguy]

Somebody should call up those bikers who defended funerals of fallen soldiers from that "god-hates-fags" church. Have them ride their bikes around the neighborhood until the HOA gives up.

And Sleepy240, it's not a law or even a rule that the HOA has in place, its a person's opinion of what doesn't look asthetically pleasing. I would argue that that rule is to keep crap from accumulating in a person's yard, not to single out a person with a flagpole.

All they are in effect is denying his free standing flag pole which they are in perfect right to do so. Perhaps you should have read what you posted ;)

The way I understood the bill, they cannot discriminate based on how the flag is flown as long as it's being flown on a privately owned tract of land.

[Matej]

These guys fight against big scary communism, and back home they are told what they can and can't do on their 'own' land. Ironic.

[codyace]

Also to cc4usmc if you would reread what you have copy and pasted from Read The Bill: H.R. 42 [109th] - GovTrack.us. The HOA is allowing him to display the flag like everyone else via a porch post. All they are in effect is denying his free standing flag pole which they are in perfect right to do so. Perhaps you should have read what you posted ;)

You remind me of the little dweebs who would sit in lectures and argue with professors over correct punctuation use in a hand out for the entire session...

[cc4usmc]

Also to cc4usmc if you would reread what you have copy and pasted from Read The Bill: H.R. 42 [109th] - GovTrack.us. The HOA is allowing him to display the flag like everyone else via a porch post. All they are in effect is denying his free standing flag pole which they are in perfect right to do so. Perhaps you should have read what you posted ;)

Perhaps you should read where I posted that there was no ruling stating the flag poles weren't allowed. After he put it up they ruled it wasn't pretty so now they want him to take it down.

[Sleepy240]

Perhaps you should read where I posted that there was no ruling stating the flag poles weren't allowed. They want him to take it down because it's not pretty.

Which just so happens to be 100% within the power of a HOA?

I guess the ultimate thing is if he doesn't like the HOA's rules and powers MOVE problem solved, nobody is forcing him to stay there

[cc4usmc]

Which just so happens to be 100% within the power of a HOA?

Not according to that law, unless you're telling me that law says the HOA has the right to tell someone how they are limited to displaying the flag. Which, in my opinion, would defeat the purpose of the law.

[Sleepy240]

Not according to that law, unless you're telling me that law says the HOA has the right to tell someone how they are limited to displaying the flag. Which, in my opinion, would defeat the purpose of the law.

Taken from the HOA website
...Unlike a municipal government, homeowner association governance is not subject to the constitutional constraints that public government must abide by...

So yes it does defeat the purpose of said law

[Brian]

I wonder if those people in charge of the HOA have ever done anything good for this country.
...probably not.

[Sleepy240]

I wonder if those people in charge of the HOA have ever done anything good for this country.
...probably not.

You never know, you would have to investigate each person on the committee for your area. Its easy to assume not, but you know what they say about people who assume

[Jtuned_andy]

Here is all the information regarding the case. I urge you to call the HOA and let them know your opinions.

Coates & Davenport (the law firm backing the HOA):
5206 Markel Road
Richmond, VA 23230-3044
Phone: (804) 285-7000

Sussex Square HOA Line: 804-740-8795 (Note: This number claims to be the wrong number)

HOA President:
Glenn Wilson
11800 N. Downs Square
Henrico, VA 23238
804-741-9160

HOA Director:
Evelyn L Wilson (Address same as Glenn Wilson)

HOA Treasurer:
Martha Middleton
11808 Rochampton Square
Richmond, VA 23238

Lawyer assigned to the case: Attorney Alexandra Bowen, Coates & Davenport, Richmond, Virginia (http://www.coateslaw.com/Bio/AlexandraBowen.asp)
Alexandra "Sandra" D. Bowen
5206 Markel Rd
Richmond, VA 23230
804-285-7000

[Brian]

You never know, you would have to investigate each person on the committee for your area. Its easy to assume not, but you know what they say about people who assume

NO SHIT?

thanks for the info.

[upsdude]

Which just so happens to be 100% within the power of a HOA?

I guess the ultimate thing is if he doesn't like the HOA's rules and powers MOVE problem solved, nobody is forcing him to stay there

dude, he's 90 freakin' years old! you act as if he's going to be able to just pick up his shit and leave lol.

[ryguy]

Taken from the HOA website
...Unlike a municipal government, homeowner association governance is not subject to the constitutional constraints that public government must abide by...

So yes it does defeat the purpose of said law

You must be out of your fucking mind if you think that means that the HOA does not have to abide by a local, state, or federal law.

"Oh, murder is legal according to our HOA charter..."

[NismoDriverS13]

the fucked up part is....that's his home and property, he should decide what he wants to put anywhere on his property. u paying for the land and the house, then its urs and no fucking stupid shit headed HOA can do anything about it.

ppl are sooo fucked up now a days! they dont even take into consideration that the dude fought for the coutry when they were all sucking their thumb and rolling around in dipers!!! if i was in HOA i would go and build him a bigger flag pole with bigger flag.

who ever is on the m.f. HOA board are all idiots!!!

[cc4usmc]

SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

PLUS


SEC. 4. LIMITATIONS.

Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use that is inconsistent with--

(2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association.

Confuses me. It's like "They can't restrict that...but they really can"

[NismoDriverS13]

^^ just a bunch of mind fucking if u ask me..........

[Sleepy240]

You must be out of your fucking mind if you think that means that the HOA does not have to abide by a local, state, or federal law.

"Oh, murder is legal according to our HOA charter..."

"Of great concern is the fact that several court decisions have held that private actors may restrict individuals' exercise of their rights on private property. A recent decision in New Jersey held that private residential communities had the right to place reasonable limitations on political speech, and that in doing so, they were not acting as municipal governments.[17] With few exceptions, courts have held private 'actors' are not subject to constitutional limitations"

So they have quite a bit of power, also your kind of stretching it with murder when we are talking about property. Also there is a BOARD of members, each of those members are elected by people in the community. Essentially you reap what you sow.

[Sleepy240]

NO SHIT?

thanks for the info.

No problem man!!:cool:

[cc4usmc]

Also there is a BOARD of members, each of those members are elected by people in the community.

Your kinda people man, I'm sure they'd love to have you living in their community.

[Sleepy240]

Your kinda people man, I'm sure they'd love to have you living in their community.

I do live in a community with a HOA, and like I said before its fantastic. I've never had an issues, with neighbors or the HOA. Unlike most people who have posted in this thread who are on the outside looking in. Its easy to judge though so I understand.

[DreamN]

Why are you people even arguing? Sure, it's fucked up, but the sad thing is an HOA really does have control of what you do with your property. Some go as detailed with what plants are able to planted on your front lawn. If your house doesn't have a fence, but you'd like one, you can't just put one up. There is paperwork to be done first and approvals to be made.

Obviously many of you have little to no experience with an HOA. It's not fun to live in an area with one if you're not one that likes to conform to the "norm."

[ryguy]

quick slightly off topic question- does a homeowners association have to be created when the subdivision is built, or can one spring up around you and basically devour you?

[cc4usmc]

can one spring up around you and basically devour you?

I wouldn't be surprised if it that could happen.

I really wish I could know more about the people who think that the HOA isn't doing anything wrong. I bet this wouldn't be the only area were I would agree with them. I already know that applies to Sleepy lol.

[Sleepy240]

quick slightly off topic question- does a homeowners association have to be created when the subdivision is built, or can one spring up around you and basically devour you?

I'm sure its possible that one could eventually come to an area you live in but I doubt it. Most of the time its in a new area to benefit the land owners, real estate agents, and the municipalities.

and

cc4usmc I am happy that somebody with some valid thoughtful opinions joined the conversation. Regardless of how far apart we are it makes people who view the thread think ;)

[ayuaddict]

WHAT THE FUCK.

that just blows.

im gonna mail them a letter.

[cc4usmc]

cc4usmc I am happy that somebody with some valid thoughtful opinions joined the conversation. Regardless of how far apart we are it makes people who view the thread think ;)

You're right. I know I can come off as a smart ass, but that's because I take these things seriously. I think this is 100% Un-American. You're entitled to your opinions just as I am, so I'm sorry get out of line.

[Sleepy240]

You're right. I know I can come off as a smart ass, but that's because I take these things seriously. I think this is 100% Un-American. You're entitled to your opinions just as I am, so I'm sorry get out of line.

Trust me your not the only one, my views can easily be abrasive to say the least. Hopefully something good comes of this and the veteran will be allowed to display his flag, I think we can all agree that would be the best outcome.

[HalveBlue]

And America's loss of common sense continues...

Aside from the fact that I think HOA are a complete waste and are nothing more than an outlet for people who like to dictate to other people how they should live their lives, the much more pressing question is WHO THE FUCK WOULD EVEN PUSH THIS ISSUE?

I cannot fathom how anybody that has even a remote grasp of history and knows what it means to be a Medal of Honor recipient would take this guy to court.

Whatever. I hope Mr. Barfoot wins this case and the fools who decided to pursue litigation have the flag pole shoved up their asses.

Fuckin eh some people have too much time on their hands.

I salute you Mr. Barfoot!

[BustedS13]

Why are you people even arguing? Sure, it's fucked up, but the sad thing is an HOA really does have control of what you do with your property. Some go as detailed with what plants are able to planted on your front lawn. If your house doesn't have a fence, but you'd like one, you can't just put one up. There is paperwork to be done first and approvals to be made.

Obviously many of you have little to no experience with an HOA. It's not fun to live in an area with one if you're not one that likes to conform to the "norm."

i have a problem with it because... what's wrong with patriotism? especially something as simple as a flagpole? why would ANYONE in the US find an American flag offensive to the eye? it's not like it's spraypainted on the hood of his camaro he keeps parked in the front yard.
would these people have a problem with a service flag in a window or on a door?

http://blogs.families.com/media/72982_02.jpg

[Matej]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2009/8/28/1251453327311/Pirate-flag-001.jpg

[DreamN]

i have a problem with it because... what's wrong with patriotism? especially something as simple as a flagpole? why would ANYONE in the US find an American flag offensive to the eye? it's not like it's spraypainted on the hood of his camaro he keeps parked in the front yard.
would these people have a problem with a service flag in a window or on a door?

http://blogs.families.com/media/72982_02.jpg

Nothing is wrong with patriotism. No one is finding the flag offensive. As mentioned in the article flags are displayed on nearly all homes in the community, they're just the ones that folks display on their porches. They wouldn't have an issue with the flag, just might have an issue with its placement.

The issue is it's too much of a difference from the "norm." The norm being, no flag poles on other homes. If it stands out to much HOA will most likely want it removed. As I mentioned, some HOA are run by folks who are just in it to be total nazis about everything. I wasn't bullshiting about the plant and fence issues either. Friends of mine have had to remove brand new plants from their yard because they weren't approved by their HOA. Fences taken down because they were to tall and the owner didn't get approval beforehand. Tire swings not allowed. It's a very long list to what an HOA won't approve and have removed. Some HOA even won't allow dogs. Not certain breeds, I'm talking any dog. When you move into a community with HOA you pretty much tend to your home by a set standard. It's very similar to living in an apartment complex.

The way I could understand it from the HOA's perspective is that when not in use the pole is just a pole and it's unsightly just to have a pole in your yard. I don't agree with it, but it's how it is when you live in an area with an HOA. It's nothing against the veteran or patriotism. They are requesting the pole to be removed, not the flag.

Most of you are simply over analyzing and digging way to deep into what's really only a scratch.

[Sleepy240]

Nothing is wrong with patriotism. No one is finding the flag offensive. As mentioned in the article flags are displayed on nearly all homes in the community, they're just the ones that folks display on their porches. They wouldn't have an issue with the flag, just might have an issue with its placement.

The issue is it's too much of a difference from the "norm." The norm being, no flag poles on other homes. If it stands out to much HOA will most likely want it removed. As I mentioned, some HOA are run by folks who are just in it to be total nazis about everything. I wasn't bullshiting about the plant and fence issues either. Friends of mine have had to remove brand new plants from their yard because they weren't approved by their HOA. Fences taken down because they were to tall and the owner didn't get approval beforehand. Tire swings not allowed. It's a very long list to what an HOA won't approve and have removed. Some HOA even won't allow dogs. Not certain breeds, I'm talking any dog. When you move into a community with HOA you pretty much tend to your home by a set standard. It's very similar to living in an apartment complex.

The way I could understand it from the HOA's perspective is that when not in use the pole is just a pole and it's unsightly just to have a pole in your yard. I don't agree with it, but it's how it is when you live in an area with an HOA. It's nothing against the veteran or patriotism. They are requesting the pole to be removed, not the flag.

Most of you are simply over analyzing and digging way to deep into what's really only a scratch.

Thankfully people have begun to use common sense! This comment basically sums it up, something I was trying to get across earlier but I think your wording is better!

[Brian]

Here is all the information regarding the case. I urge you to call the HOA and let them know your opinions.

Coates & Davenport (the law firm backing the HOA):
5206 Markel Road
Richmond, VA 23230-3044
Phone: (804) 285-7000

Sussex Square HOA Line: 804-740-8795 (Note: This number claims to be the wrong number)

HOA President:
Glenn Wilson
11800 N. Downs Square
Henrico, VA 23238
804-741-9160

HOA Director:
Evelyn L Wilson (Address same as Glenn Wilson)

HOA Treasurer:
Martha Middleton
11808 Rochampton Square
Richmond, VA 23238

Lawyer assigned to the case: Attorney Alexandra Bowen, Coates & Davenport, Richmond, Virginia (http://www.coateslaw.com/Bio/AlexandraBowen.asp)
Alexandra "Sandra" D. Bowen
5206 Markel Rd
Richmond, VA 23230
804-285-7000



you are right, the hotline number doesn't work.
HOA president line just goes to voicemail.


oh well.


At the end of the day, I hope this Veteran gets to keep his flagpole and flag. I think he deserves it.

[DALAZ_68]

dude, he's 90 freakin' years old! you act as if he's going to be able to just pick up his shit and leave lol.

seriously right...

I do live in a community with a HOA, and like I said before its fantastic. I've never had an issues, with neighbors or the HOA. Unlike most people who have posted in this thread who are on the outside looking in. Its easy to judge though so I understand.

so you dont mind being told how to live in ur own property...kew...do your thing...personally if i dropped cash to own my home id like to live in it how i wouldnt WANT to live in it. Now dont get me wrong here and think id trash the place, no, but i wouldnt want to live in a place were everyone shares one opinion with no room for anything else...


Obviously many of you have little to no experience with an HOA. It's not fun to live in an area with one if you're not one that likes to conform to the "norm."

i have, never again...


Trust me your not the only one, my views can easily be abrasive to say the least. Hopefully something good comes of this and the veteran will be allowed to display his flag, I think we can all agree that would be the best outcome.

best outcome would be to let him show his patriotism the way he wants to...simple...the way you come off in this arguement tells me ur the kinda person who wouldnt give your seat to an old lady, yeah she's got legs she can get her own, fuck courtesy right...no respect for those b4 you who im pretty sure accomplished more in there lives and hold higher values than you could understand...



but i guess risking your life for people youll never meet and watching friends families die, and hell even killing and risking hell and risking total damnation per his religion...oh well right...



I salute you Mr. Barfoot!



same here...i dont know the man but like any other military person i know, i respect and thank you for your sacrifice



The issue is it's too much of a difference from the "norm." The norm being, no flag poles on other homes.

ohh....so he's to patriotic unlike the rest...cool got it...


the ones over analyzing the situation is the HOA...let the man live in peace for watever time he has left to enjoy the peace he helped bring this country...

[Sleepy240]

so you dont mind being told how to live in ur own property...kew...do your thing...personally if i dropped cash to own my home id like to live in it how i wouldnt WANT to live in it. Now dont get me wrong here and think id trash the place, no, but i wouldnt want to live in a place were everyone shares one opinion with no room for anything else...

To me this seems like an isolated incident and like I have said before its easy for people to judge when they no absolutely nothing about HOA's. My HOA is fantastic, we live in a fantastic community. Some are more stingy than others, mine is very simple basically limiting shutter colors / siding colors / roofing colors on the houses. Making for a much more appealing community. And if I ever decide to sell my property I will receive (most likely) more than I paid for it since people actually WANT to live here. Its a place I feel totally safe, especially in the near future for my family. They have no control over what color your furniture is, or whether you can drink wine or soda. All they do is make the exterior of the community the most pleasant thing possible. If you have ever lived next to neighbors who frankly don't give a shit about their property you will see how that diminishes the value of EVERYONES property in the area, guess what I will NEVER have that problem.


best outcome would be to let him show his patriotism the way he wants to...simple...the way you come off in this arguement tells me ur the kinda person who wouldnt give your seat to an old lady, yeah she's got legs she can get her own, fuck courtesy right...no respect for those b4 you who im pretty sure accomplished more in there lives and hold higher values than you could understand... but i guess risking your life for people youll never meet and watching friends families die, and hell even killing and risking hell and risking total damnation per his religion...oh well right...

Your completely entitled to your opinion. Its easy for someone in your position to make claims about me. I am 100% sure this fine gentleman has done more than you and I combined. I hold pretty high values, one of which is following SIMPLE RULES, on the contrary you come across with some relatively low standards (thinking you know about me). I could be wrong but unless you know the guy you have no idea what he has gone through, why he received his MOH, where he even fought. My point being you have no idea also.

[fckillerbee]

he should be excluded. hoa have their rights because of him. someone should go and paint all those fuckers houses red white and blue. and then bleach the yard with imprints of stars.

[Sleepy240]

he should be excluded. hoa have their rights because of him. someone should go and paint all those fuckers houses red white and blue. and then bleach the yard with imprints of stars.

Sooooooooo your goal is to spread patriotism by committing crimes? Sounds awesome bro

[DALAZ_68]

To me this seems like an isolated incident and like I have said before its easy for people to judge when they no absolutely nothing about HOA's.


ive lived in an HOA controlled area...for 2 months....never again...

My HOA is fantastic, we live in a fantastic community. Some are more stingy than others, mine is very simple basically limiting shutter colors / siding colors / roofing colors on the houses. Making for a much more appealing community. And if I ever decide to sell my property I will receive (most likely) more than I paid for it since people actually WANT to live here. Its a place I feel totally safe, especially in the near future for my family. They have no control over what color your furniture is, or whether you can drink wine or soda. All they do is make the exterior of the community the most pleasant thing possible. If you have ever lived next to neighbors who frankly don't give a shit about their property you will see how that diminishes the value of EVERYONES property in the area, guess what I will NEVER have that problem.




obviously they wouldnt control what goes inside ur home, yet there are some HOA who do complain about curtain colors? seriously cmon...

i personally like diversed homes, different colors different styles...especially in areas were people built there own dream home...

im not down to live in an area were everything outside has to have symmetry...its boring to me.

like i said if ur down for that way of living, so be it...



Your completely entitled to your opinion. Its easy for someone in your position to make claims about me. I am 100% sure this fine gentleman has done more than you and I combined. I hold pretty high values, one of which is following SIMPLE RULES, on the contrary you come across with some relatively low standards (thinking you know about me). I could be wrong but unless you know the guy you have no idea what he has gone through, why he received his MOH, where he even fought. My point being you have no idea also.



im not claiming anything, just my opinion of what you have personified to me in this thread about the ludicrous shit this poor man has to deal with...

remember your the one sayin for him to Move, the guy is 90, fought wars, and is a patriot of this country, really you think telling him to just move is a justifiable answer to this bullshit?

i personally have no issues with rules, rules that matter anyway... being told what color im allowed to have on my property, or how to display my american flag...nonsense...

if by low standards to you mean respecting and giving this gent one of the only pleasures he has left in his life by flying his flag up high...so be it...



why he received his MOH ?
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty on 23 May 1944, near Carano, Italy. With his platoon heavily engaged during an assault against forces well entrenched on commanding ground, 2d Lt. Barfoot (then Tech. Sgt.) moved off alone upon the enemy left flank. He crawled to the proximity of 1 machinegun nest and made a direct hit on it with a hand grenade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade), killing 2 and wounding 3 Germans. He continued along the German defense line to another machinegun emplacement, and with his tommygun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun) killed 2 and captured 3 soldiers. Members of another enemy machinegun crew then abandoned their position and gave themselves up to Sgt. Barfoot. Leaving the prisoners for his support squad to pick up, he proceeded to mop up positions in the immediate area, capturing more prisoners and bringing his total count to 17. Later that day, after he had reorganized his men and consolidated the newly captured ground, the enemy launched a fierce armored counterattack directly at his platoon positions. Securing a bazooka, Sgt. Barfoot took up an exposed position directly in front of 3 advancing Mark VI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_I) tanks. From a distance of 75 yards his first shot destroyed the track (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_track) of the leading tank, effectively disabling it, while the other 2 changed direction toward the flank. As the crew of the disabled tank dismounted, Sgt. Barfoot killed 3 of them with his tommygun. He continued onward into enemy terrain and destroyed a recently abandoned German fieldpiece with a demolition charge placed in the breech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breech-loading_weapon). While returning to his platoon position, Sgt. Barfoot, though greatly fatigued by his Herculean efforts, assisted 2 of his seriously wounded men 1,700 yards to a position of safety. Sgt. Barfoot's extraordinary heroism, demonstration of magnificent valor, and aggressive determination in the face of pointblank fire are a perpetual inspiration to his fellow soldiers

does that help you understand him a bit more? god knows it help me wish i could even come close to what hes done.


where he even fought?




After enlisting in the Army from Carthage, Mississippi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage,_Mississippi), in 1940 and completing his training, Barfoot served with the 1st Infantry Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Infantry_Division_(United_States)) in Louisiana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana) and Puerto Rico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico). In December 1941, he was promoted to sergeant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant#United_States) and re-assigned to the Headquarters Amphibious Force Atlantic Fleet in Quantico, Virginia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantico,_Virginia), which he served with until it was deactivated in 1943. He next joined the 157th Infantry Regiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=157th_Infantry_Regiment&action=edit&redlink=1), 45th Infantry Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45th_Infantry_Division_(United_States)), and was sent to Europe.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_T._Barfoot#cite_note-collier-1)
As part of the Italian Campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Campaign_(World_War_II)), Barfoot participated in a series of amphibious landings: the Allied invasion of Sicily (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_invasion_of_Sicily) in July 1943, the invasion of mainland Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_invasion_of_Italy) at Salerno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salerno) in September, and finally the landings at Anzio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Shingle) in late January 1944. His unit pushed inland from Anzio, and by May 1944 had reached the town of Carano. There they set up defensive positions and, for several weeks, Barfoot conducted patrols to scout the German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) lines. When his company was ordered to attack on the morning of May 23, Barfoot, now a technical sergeant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_sergeant), asked for permission to lead a squad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad). Because of the patrols he had conducted, he knew the layout of the terrain and the minefield which lay in front of the German position. He advanced alone through the minefield, following ditches and depressions, until he came within a few yards of a machine gun on the German flank. After destroying the gun with a hand grenade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade), he entered the German trench and advanced on a second machine gun, killing two soldiers and capturing three others. When he reached a third gun, the entire crew surrendered. After clearing the area, Barfoot had captured a total of seventeen German soldiers.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_T._Barfoot#cite_note-collier-1)
When the Germans launched an armored (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_warfare) counterattack later in the day, Barfoot disabled one tank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank) with a bazooka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazooka), advanced into enemy-held territory, and destroyed an abandoned German artillery piece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_artillery). He then returned to his own lines and helped two wounded soldiers from his squad to the rear.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_T._Barfoot#cite_note-collier-1)
Barfoot was subsequently commissioned (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commissioned_officer) as a second lieutenant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_lieutenant#United_States). His unit moved into France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) and by September was serving in the Rhone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhone) valley. It was there that Barfoot learned he would be awarded the Medal of Honor. He chose to have the presentation ceremony in the field, rather than in the United States, so that his soldiers could attend. He was formally presented with the medal on September 28, 1944, in Épinal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89pinal), France, by Lieutenant General Alexander Patch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Patch).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_T._Barfoot#cite_note-collier-1)
Barfoot reached the rank of colonel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_(United_States)) before retiring from the Army


facing mind fields?, tanks?...holy Fuck...id be honored to be in the same fucking room as this guy, just like i am honored to be in the presence of anyone who fought for the country in which many of my generation abuse the liberties we get to enjoy due to there sacrifice day in and day out...


does this guy DESERVE the RIGHT to fly his flag on that fucking pole ? YES
simple answer is YES

[IMPORTIMAGE]

I live in Henrico. I guess this is what he gets for fighting for our country.

This is a sad day.

[Sleepy240]

remember your the one sayin for him to Move, the guy is 90, fought wars, and is a patriot of this country, really you think telling him to just move is a justifiable answer to this bullshit?

Um... He lived with the HOA for years apparently, its not like these proceedings are something new. I am sure in his 90 years of age he has seen numerous things (probably neighbors none the less) be subject to the same rules and changes. So yes... MOVE. People like you obviously don't understand patriotism. Flying a flag doesn't make you any more patriotic than anybody else, or someone who doesn't any less. I myself have a grandfather who served in WW II, is he any less patriotic because he doesn't want to display a flag on a 5 foot flag pole?

if by low standards to you mean respecting and giving this gent one of the only pleasures he has left in his life by flying his flag up high...so be it..
does that help you understand him a bit more?

This has absolutely nothing to do with respect. I am 100% confident that he is a very respected member of the community and he has my respect also but that doesn't make him exempt to any type of rules.

does this guy DESERVE the RIGHT to fly his flag on that fucking pole ? YES
simple answer is YES

He can hang the flag from the porch like EVERYBODY ELSE. Also I am happy you posted what exactly he had done, its a great read.

[Brian]

I wish the HOA would have answered my phone call.

I wonder what his neighbors think about the situation.

[g6civcx]

SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.


SEC. 4. LIMITATIONS.

Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use that is inconsistent with--

(2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association.


Confuses me. It's like "They can't restrict that...but they really can"

See the bolded section above.

Please allow me to explain something. HOAs and covenants are extremely, extremely powerful. They can do just about anything as long as it is not illegal.

The pecking order goes like this:

US Constitution
Federal Law
State Law
Local Law
HOA/Convenant
Homeowner

An entity may overrule its subordinates, but must obey its superior.

So as long as as the HOA rules don't violate any law, the HOA can make you do anything. You don't legally own the land you live on. You live on your land at the HOA's whim, and they can evict you any time for any reason.

Read your HOA rider when you bought the house. If you don't agree to their rules, you can't buy the house. They can block sales, force sales, evict, repo, refurnish, or just anything else they want.

I have seen cases where millionaire athletes were evicted by the HOA for throwing too many parties after a long legal battle. It shows that even if you have money, HOAs are very powerful.

An example:

HOAs can make you do a backflip every time you enter your house and this would be legal. The Constitution doesn't say that it's illegal to do backflips, and federal/state/local law doesn't ban doing backflip in front of your house. So this rule would stick.

HOAs cannot evict black people. This violates federal anti-discrimination law. So this rule would be thrown out and cannot be enforced.


If you want to win the legal argument, the vet has to show why banning the flagpole is illegal under the Constitution, federal, state, or local law. He has to convince a judge that banning the flagpole is illegal.

Alternatively, the vet can run for the HOA himself and change the rules internally.

Either that, or just move. He has no other legal recourse under current US and Virginia law.

[Brian]

Found a poll for the pole. lol
FOXNews.com - Should an American Hero Be Allowed to Fly Old Glory? (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/12/03/american-hero-allowed-fly-old-glory/#commentCount)

which side are YOU on?

[fckillerbee]

i will never move into a subdivision with a home owners' association. bunch of fucking shitheads.
my buddy's parents live next to this dude... he had a sailboat in his back yard, and the HOA made him move it off his property, so he put up a couple flagpoles behind his fence with sailboat sails on them, and then redid his yard and exterior of his house in a nautical theme. little rope fence around his front yard, lifesavers all over the fence, an anchor in the front yard, a huge lit sign over the garage that said "dry dock", and so on and so forth. and he's on the front corner lot of the subdivision, so anybody looking to buy a house in the neighborhood sees him first.
dude's a total asshole but it was really, really funny.

Um... He lived with the HOA for years apparently, its not like these proceedings are something new. I am sure in his 90 years of age he has seen numerous things (probably neighbors none the less) be subject to the same rules and changes. So yes... MOVE. People like you obviously don't understand patriotism. Flying a flag doesn't make you any more patriotic than anybody else, or someone who doesn't any less. I myself have a grandfather who served in WW II, is he any less patriotic because he doesn't want to display a flag on a 5 foot flag pole?



This has absolutely nothing to do with respect. I am 100% confident that he is a very respected member of the community and he has my respect also but that doesn't make him exempt to any type of rules.



He can hang the flag from the porch like EVERYBODY ELSE. Also I am happy you posted what exactly he had done, its a great read.


I think this makes him more patriotic than anyone else. Just cause you served your country doesn't mean that you are patriotic ( no offense to your grandfather ). and flying a flag shows patriotism...where a patriotic man that doesn't have a flag shown i would call less patriotic since the passion for his country is shown "more" by the man with a flag displayed. my opinion obviously.

[g6civcx]

I think this makes him more patriotic than anyone else. Just cause you served your country doesn't mean that you are patriotic ( no offense to your grandfather )

I agree. Military service is not the only way to honour your country.

There are many ways to serve your country, and military service is one of them.

[DALAZ_68]

Um... He lived with the HOA for years apparently, its not like these proceedings are something new. I am sure in his 90 years of age he has seen numerous things (probably neighbors none the less) be subject to the same rules and changes. So yes... MOVE. People like you obviously don't understand patriotism. Flying a flag doesn't make you any more patriotic than anybody else, or someone who doesn't any less. I myself have a grandfather who served in WW II, is he any less patriotic because he doesn't want to display a flag on a 5 foot flag pole?



im pretty sure he did see others subject to said rules, but im also positive that none of them lived and did the same things for this country as he did

him flying the flag is a symbol of his patriotism...being told how to, is just plain wrong, especially with the back round this man has...



This has absolutely nothing to do with respect. I am 100% confident that he is a very respected member of the community and he has my respect also but that doesn't make him exempt to any type of rules.
actions speak loader than words.



He can hang the flag from the porch like EVERYBODY ELSE. Also I am happy you posted what exactly he had done, its a great read.

he isnt like everybody else...if the united states government can see that, why cant HOA...

[ThatGuy]

Found a poll for the pole. lol
FOXNews.com - Should an American Hero Be Allowed to Fly Old Glory? (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/12/03/american-hero-allowed-fly-old-glory/#commentCount)

which side are YOU on?

As of my vote: Total Votes: 42,808

97% in favor of Col. Van Barfoot.


Fuck you Home Owners Association.

[fckillerbee]

As of my vote: Total Votes: 42,808

97% in favor of Col. Van Barfoot.


Fuck you Home Owners Association.


since your post....44,328 in favor! he's got mine

[cc4usmc]

Voted. Up to 50,316 total votes.

I posted the link on myspace and calguns.net. I'll post it wherever I can find a thread about this story.

Thankfully people have begun to use common sense! This comment basically sums it up, something I was trying to get across earlier but I think your wording is better!

I pretty fucking sure that everyone against the HOA understands what is going on. This isn't about common sense, it's about having a fucking heart. You obviously don't have one, because you're the only one in this thread who wants to put his flag pole up his ass.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're a disgrace to this country. I believe that people like you are one of the reasons this country is going down the toilet. You'd be a perfect politician, and that's not a compliment.

Reply however you want to this, but I wont see it. /Ignore motherfucker.

[drftmark]

That is just fucking pitiful what the HOA is trying to do. Absolutely pitiful. /spit on them

[cc4usmc]

So as long as as the HOA rules don't violate any law, the HOA can make you do anything.

What I don't understand about that law, is the first sections says they can't make you take it down. The second, however, says they can. I thought that bold text in the first section meant that a homeowner had exclusive rights to their flag/flag pole etc, much like a country does with their Embassy.

[DreamN]

What I don't understand about that law, is the first sections says they can't make you take it down. The second, however, says they can. I thought that bold text in the first section meant that a homeowner had exclusive rights to their flag/flag pole etc, much like a country does with their Embassy.

The way I understood it is you are free to display it, but if it doesn't fit a set standard or is not approved you will have to take it down with the option to display it in the approved manner.

It's a bad situation to be in and it looks very bad on the HOA simply because he's a veteran of such caliber. I'm glad he and his family are fighting against the HOA on this matter though.

[SimpleS14]

eh, I was never a fan of HOAs but if there is proven documentation in place that's state something like this can be prosecuted, than it's fair game.

[DreamN]

Voted for Col. Barfoot and wow the votes are pooring in.

Total Votes: 57,778 with 97% in favor of the Col.

[ThatGuy]

Let me add this to the discussion...

NO FLAG, NONE, should be flown ABOVE the United States Flag.

With that being said, is everyone in the neighborhood's porches the same height? If one porch happens to be higher, or has their "porch mounted pole" up higher, and they happen to be flying a flag for their favorite NFL team at the same time their neighbor is flying the US flag, only lower, then they are wrong. By Col. Van Barfoot having a full size flag pole is his front yard, he assures that the US Flag always get's the respect it deserves.

Does everyone else in the neighborhood remember to bring their flag in at dusk? If not, do they have a dedicated spotlight lighting the flag through the hours of darkness? If not, they are WRONG. Since Col. Van Barfoot, PROPERLY lowers his flag and PROPERLY folds it every evening at dusk, he is ensuring the Flag gets it's proper respect.

The Flag he offered his life in 2 DIFFERENT WARS to defend.




Yes, Home Owner's Associations can be good for keeping a decent neighborhood from looking bad because someone has 4 cars on cinderbloocks in their back yard. Or someone who leaves their Christmas lights up until February. However, on United States Soil, the National Ensign should NEVER be considered not "Aesthetically Pleasing".

FUCK YOU HOME OWNERS ASSOCIATION.

[theicecreamdan]

HOAs can make you do a backflip every time you enter your house and this would be legal. The Constitution doesn't say that it's illegal to do backflips, and federal/state/local law doesn't ban doing backflip in front of your house. So this rule would stick.

HOAs cannot evict black people. This violates federal anti-discrimination law. So this rule would be thrown out and cannot be enforced.

.

Wouldn't the first part of the example be discriminatory against disabled people?

Its sad that this has to be an issue, but its good to see that this man is still fighting fights worth fighting. Don't worry too much people, I have a feeling he will win a fight that most people wouldn't win.

[S14DB]

Crap, forgot about this.

Read The Bill: H.R. 42 [109th] - GovTrack.us (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-42)

I know someone that went through this with their HOA and federal law that was posted.

Basically he has to sue them in federal court citing this law. It not only covers the law but the furniture used to display said flag.

The only restriction would be any local zoning ordinances for safety. Also has to follow display rules(up at dawn and down at dusk or lighted).

[DALAZ_68]

The only restriction would be any local zoning ordinances for safety. Also has to follow display rules(up at dawn and down at dusk or lighted).


dont forget not in the rain...:)

[cc4usmc]

The way I understood it is you are free to display it, but if it doesn't fit a set standard or is not approved you will have to take it down with the option to display it in the approved manner.

Which would render the law useless because the underlined is up to the very people the law is supposed to protect you from. Right?

[mRclARK1]

Let me add this to the discussion...

NO FLAG, NONE, should be flown ABOVE the United States Flag.

With that being said, is everyone in the neighborhood's porches the same height? If one porch happens to be higher, or has their "porch mounted pole" up higher, and they happen to be flying a flag for their favorite NFL team at the same time their neighbor is flying the US flag, only lower, then they are wrong. By Col. Van Barfoot having a full size flag pole is his front yard, he assures that the US Flag always get's the respect it deserves.

Does everyone else in the neighborhood remember to bring their flag in at dusk? If not, do they have a dedicated spotlight lighting the flag through the hours of darkness? If not, they are WRONG. Since Col. Van Barfoot, PROPERLY lowers his flag and PROPERLY folds it every evening at dusk, he is ensuring the Flag gets it's proper respect.

The Flag he offered his life in 2 DIFFERENT WARS to defend.




Yes, Home Owner's Associations can be good for keeping a decent neighborhood from looking bad because someone has 4 cars on cinderbloocks in their back yard. Or someone who leaves their Christmas lights up until February. However, on United States Soil, the National Ensign should NEVER be considered not "Aesthetically Pleasing".

FUCK YOU HOME OWNERS ASSOCIATION.

Said perfectly. The pole is only bare at night... When no one really cares. And really, does it look any "worse" than a street light pole? Probably not.

[fckillerbee]

This thread make me angry. I can't believe people in our own country have no respect for what they have. I really hope when this goes to court the judge looks at the HOA and spits on them.

Anyone have pictures of this guys house? and maybe the gentleman himself?

edit: just found pictures. thanks for the photo dalaz.

[DALAZ_68]

This thread make me angry. I can't believe people in our own country have no respect for what they have. I really hope when this goes to court the judge looks at the HOA and spits on them.

Anyone have pictures of this guys house? and maybe the gentleman himself?

Photo of Medal of Honor Recipient Van Barfoot (http://www.homeofheroes.com/photos/6_ww2/barfoot.html)

[theicecreamdan]

eh, I was never a fan of HOAs but if there is proven documentation in place that's state something like this can be prosecuted, than it's fair game.

Laws should mean nothing if they don't represent the views of the people.

[airsoft]

So hes been doing this flag ceremony for how many years living under HOA and nowwwww they want it down?

I would like to know who the new board of directors are or whomever is now in charge of the HOA for this.

[drift_limo]

This is completely outrageous.

I cannot even begin to fathom this level of stupidity and disrespect on the part of the Home Owners Association.

Fuck your Home Owners Association!


ILOVELOVE HOA!

but they should read the rules before anything.

my neighbor has a flag pole and a flag aslong as its not bigger then the first story of the house its fine, then again every HOA community is different.
And get consent from other neighbors for it to be ok.

I bet non of you have ever lived in a gated community?

but it is wrong to do that to soldiers that have fought for our freedom.

[Brian]

So which side are you on?

[drift_limo]

So which side are you on?


Idk you tell me ...


like i said i like HOA cus it doesnt turn communitys into ghettos.

but its not right to disrespect soldiers.

like I said my neighbor has a flag and a pole. so I dont know y they are giving this guy such a hard time.

[theicecreamdan]

Because his flagpole is better than everybody else's.

[ranger240]

zilvia needs a new feature, this feature will be even more useful than rep was.

its like those + and - buttons on random sites. its purpose, enough - votes make stupid ass annoying comments fainter.

zilvias equivalent should be something that flat-out bans a poster from the thread in which hes received enough negative votes.

__________________________________________________ ________________________

why is this on topic?

because morons like Sleepy240 are simply playing devils advocate. its annoying to see an interesting thread topic littered with stupid ass HOA counterarguments by one poster

the comment of him being that moron in a lecture raising his hand to argue with professors is spot on, though this context is far more annoying.

sleepy240, you've added your opinion more than enough in this thread to convey what your 'perspective' is. you can shut up now.

there are two sides to this argument. pro-MOH veteran and pro-HOA.


a majority of the posters here are in favor of the veteran, but a disproprtionate amount of postings are from one person who isnt. this thread isnt about learning about the virtues of a HOA, its about right and wrong and whither or not a 90 year old war hero should have to put up with a bunch of overzealous go-getting neighbors and their mercenaries (lawyers) during his waning hours.

this guys fought enough battles, let the guy fly a freaking flag. the subjective opinion of some HOA assholes shouldnt matter

sleepy240, as previously recommended, go back to college and start arguing with professors again, your peers here on zilvia are sick of hearing your opinion, youve stated it, we get it. go read a book.

[S14DB]

http://zilvia.net/f/loud-noises/274204-rules-loud-noises-ignore-them-your-peril.html

[Sleepy240]

@ Ranger240 - I haven't posted in this thread in nearly 3 days and now you feel the need to add your two cents. I really don't care what you think, just because my opinion might not be the "popular" one doesn't make it any less valid. And just so you know I went to college, graduated with a degree, so I don't really see a reason to go back there. You think I don't get tired of hearing other peoples arguments time and time again? Doesn't mean I'm going to get all upset about it, although obviously you have thin skin.

And as an FYI your + and - system is EXACTLY like rep. As a matter of fact its worse than rep, so you can count on that system never being implemented as it simply would be abused.

[Agamemnon]

The flagpole removal deadline was pushed back to Dec. 11. Looks like will have to wait a little longer to see what happens.

zilvias equivalent should be something that flat-out bans a poster from the thread in which hes received enough negative votes.
Are you saying that we should restrict someone's opinion if it is deemed unpopular? From what you are telling me that's it's OK to have an opinion, just as long it mirrors everyone elses.
Dangerous stuff.

[ronmcdon]

rules aside, it seems this has gotten a lot of controversy as of late.
it can't be good PR for the hoa overall.

will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[SexPanda]

Now, kinda 3rd party perspective time, since I have lived on or near military installations for over a fifth century now lol. Damn that makes it sound like im old.

I would feel honored to live next to any veteran, let alone a MOH recipient. I love my country and my flag, and I would not have any problem at all with a 90 year old man, who fought for our country against the evil of the third reich, having a 20 foot flag pole with the American flag waving every day. That kind of shit would be inspiring. It wouldn't dissuade me from purchasing a house next to his in a HOA, it would be incentive. Now, I don't really see why the HOA is getting its panties all in a bunch. A flag pole isnt something one would usually call an eye sore. I really wouldn't want to meet the person who says "I love the house, but the old guy's flag pole is just a bother."

[fckillerbee]

Now, kinda 3rd party perspective time, since I have lived on or near military installations for over a fifth century now lol. Damn that makes it sound like im old.

I would feel honored to live next to any veteran, let alone a MOH recipient. I love my country and my flag, and I would not have any problem at all with a 90 year old man, who fought for our country against the evil of the third reich, having a 20 foot flag pole with the American flag waving every day. That kind of shit would be inspiring. It wouldn't dissuade me from purchasing a house next to his in a HOA, it would be incentive. Now, I don't really see why the HOA is getting its panties all in a bunch. A flag pole isnt something one would usually call an eye sore. I really wouldn't want to meet the person who says "I love the house, but the old guy's flag pole is just a bother."

or better yet...I dont want to buy this house...because the MOH guy that gave me all my freedoms in THIS country has THIS country's flag raised in his yard. I think I shall just buy a house in the middle east...where 118 people were recently killed in a car bomb. that's where I want to move.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34322986/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/?gt1=43001

and getting banned for an opinion...haha half of zilvia users would be gone.

[ronmcdon]

well you know how politically correct things can be these days.
it's not unthinkable some would consider the flag (or flag pole) to be offensive.

[SexPanda]

I've been saying for years now political correction is going to ruin this country. Not so much on here, but just in general.

I try to use my freedoms to their fullest potential. And I love it.

[Brian]

^^^
you've got that right.

Everybody is being such a (insert real mean word here) these days.

[Matej]

Maybe the flag is huge and the entire neighborhood is in darkness because of it.

[Gah....It's Too LOUD!!!]

Sorry I'm late on this but I have just read all the info.....I mean why is it wrong for any American to display or show their loyalty to their country that they love and care about so much hell even fought for in this matter. Let the veteran raise his flag he has every damn right too!!!

[Brian]

the "problem" is that asshole HOA people want to have the FLAGPOLE taken out.

So, it's still a FUCK YOU to the guy, but they are trying to make it a classy fuck you.


Boooooooooo the HOA.

[IMPORTIMAGE]

**UPDATE**

He can raise the flag!!!

Lawsuit is being dropped.

Click here for story (http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/FLAG09GAT_20091208-192802/310291/)

Regards,
[email protected]

[Brian]

On another front today, U.S. Rep. Eric I. Cantor, R-7th. introduced a resolution in the House of Representatives resolving that any recipient of the Medal of Honor be permitted to "properly display" the flag from the recipient's property.


GOOD. I like this.

[DreamN]

That's great news.

[SexPanda]

**UPDATE**

He can raise the flag!!!

Lawsuit is being dropped.

Click here for story (http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/FLAG09GAT_20091208-192802/310291/)

Regards,
[email protected]

On another front today, U.S. Rep. Eric I. Cantor, R-7th. introduced a resolution in the House of Representatives resolving that any recipient of the Medal of Honor be permitted to "properly display" the flag from the recipient's property.


GOOD. I like this.

At least there are some dicks up on the hill who still have a little heart left.

[ronmcdon]

Heart my ass, lol.
More like being an opportunist, if anything.
Publicity like that wins votes when elections come.

Still, a good deed should be appreciated regardless of the agenda.
Laws are good for nothing if they aren't flexible enough to make worthy exceptions.
(such is the case).

[kandyflip445]

This is completely outrageous.

I cannot even begin to fathom this level of stupidity and disrespect on the part of the Home Owners Association.

Fuck your Home Owners Association!

Exactly how I feel.

It's bullshit.

EDIT: The guy should ask his local base to have a flag ceremony at his house every week and say fuck you HOA.

[fckillerbee]

this gentleman gets the taste of victory once again!

[Enna]

Having lived in a few places with HOA's, they tend to be a bit rediculous. In one of mine you can only park on one side of the street. Understandable because they were somewhat narrow, but still a bit much.

In another one I couldn't have my car parked in my driveway for longer than 2 days. It either had to be in the garage or moved in that 2 day timeframe.

And another one... I couldn't work on my vehicle in my own garage, couldn't have a vehicle on my property that wasn't currently registered, and if the vehicle wasn't driven, it still had to be washed.

I don't like HOA, some are worse than others however. Although if I could find one with less strict rules, in a decent location, and I could actually choose the color of my house... I wouldn't mind.

[cc4usmc]

Wohoo! Glad to hear he won.

[Genovese.Jr]

he should keep it up people are such p.o.s these days just like throwing some ww2 veterans ashes and medals in to a dump he had 5 medals and tons of awards it happend in fl like a week ago

[irax]

the rest of the home owners in his area just are not patriotic. so much so they don't want to be reminded what it means to be patriotic. If I lived in the neighborhood I'd erect a flag pole just as big as his.

[Gah....It's Too LOUD!!!]

That is awsome news....hell yea!!!

[SinGarage]

Just got to this part of the thread and just.....WOW.

I don't live currently in an HOA community but I have a house in Las Vegas which does. They are some of the worst and inconsiderate people I have ever met. We have went through 4 different HOA companies since I've bought that house new in 2005. I definitely understand how an HOA is ran and operated. I have had many encounters with them with my lawyers for some of the most ludicrous things.

I am glad Mr. Barfoot has won. Just like some people here have said that people who does not live in an HOA does not understand. This in turn is the same as people who has not lived or know people in the military also do not understand the RESPECT this man deserves. I salute this man for fighting the HOA.

[SlideWell]

thats so effed! a man of 3 wars should have the right to have that flag he so proudly fought to defend.

[theicecreamdan]

On another front today, U.S. Rep. Eric I. Cantor, R-7th. introduced a resolution in the House of Representatives resolving that any recipient of the Medal of Honor be permitted to "properly display" the flag from the recipient's property.


GOOD. I like this.

Why should somebody have to get a medal of honor in order to "properly display" the flag?

[KA24DESOneThree]

Holy christ, this thread blows.

He fought in three wars? So what? He has a Medal of Honor? So what? It means nothing when dealing with the actual problem. Look at it rationally, and not like some uber-patriotic mental defective.

I'm going to side with the unpopulars and just say it: If he's an HOA member willingly, he must abide by their rulings. If they're useless shits, he has to deal with it. It doesn't matter if he's a baby-killing meth head or Jesus incarnate; he is bound by those rulings regardless of whether or not they make sense.

His service, and its validity, is not and never was in question nor scrutiny. The flag's value to him should not and cannot be taken into account.

I fly my flags tattered and upside down.

[DALAZ_68]

On another front today, U.S. Rep. Eric I. Cantor, R-7th. introduced a resolution in the House of Representatives resolving that any recipient of the Medal of Honor be permitted to "properly display" the flag from the recipient's property.


GOOD. I like this.

At least there are some dicks up on the hill who still have a little heart left.

Heart my ass, lol.
More like being an opportunist, if anything.
Publicity like that wins votes when elections come.



have a little faith...

Holy christ, this thread blows.

He fought in three wars? So what? He has a Medal of Honor? So what? It means nothing when dealing with the actual problem. Look at it rationally, and not like some uber-patriotic mental defective.

I'm going to side with the unpopulars and just say it: If he's an HOA member willingly, he must abide by their rulings. If they're useless shits, he has to deal with it. It doesn't matter if he's a baby-killing meth head or Jesus incarnate; he is bound by those rulings regardless of whether or not they make sense.


No One cares, ur side lost...GTFO...lol

FUCK HOA...


congrats to the man Barfoot...

[codyace]

He fought in three wars? So what? He has a Medal of Honor? So what? It means nothing when dealing with the actual problem. Look at it rationally, and not like some uber-patriotic mental defective.

It's an issue of respect. Some people understand this, most don't. To me, I don't care WHO wants to fly the AMerican Flag, they should be allowed to do so. The fact that this guy is 'cream of the crop' of those who keep us free, should damn near enable him to what the hell he wants. Just my views.

[Max_PSi]

The link is down so I'm just commenting.......

He's 90 years old. Puts the flag out, rolls it up himself? Did he put the flag pole up without them knowing? Doubt it. If the HOA doesn't condone it then why is the flag pole on his property?

I mean come on, the flag isn't the size of his house. Hell, I'll peronally install the spotlights to light it up this way he doesn't need to take it down at night.

[ronmcdon]

It's an issue of respect. Some people understand this, most don't. To me, I don't care WHO wants to fly the AMerican Flag, they should be allowed to do so. The fact that this guy is 'cream of the crop' of those who keep us free, should damn near enable him to what the hell he wants. Just my views.

The truth of the matter is up to speculation.
I'd wager ultimately it was 'publicity' and the media that made the change possible.
If it was a regular dude, chances are this wouldn't have happened.

Rights and influence are two entirely different things.
Technically, everyone in the US has the same rights.
However, not everyone has the same level of influence.
The old guy had existing influence in his past accomplishments,
and knew how to use publicity to his advantage.

Most of us aren't going to be able to pull this same stunt with our existing 'resumes'.

[Max_PSi]

I don't know I guess its just me. I find it a bit ridiculous that there are ppl who purposely install their native countries flag on the hood of their car during XYZ national pride day, or some parade, causing a bigger safety hazard driving then this guy could have ever done by simply raising his flag on his piece of property.

[victorw210]

i had a friend that lived in a place with a hoa that were assholes.he would have people over alot(not noisy or rediculous) and people would park on the street.the hoa got mad and put up no parking signs on the side of the street so everyone parked on the other side then they put signs up on that sign so there was nowhere to park.they lived in the front of the neighborhood and there was a large sign with the name of the neighborhood so one day people just parked in the grass in the entrance in front of the sign to give a big fuck you to the hoa. he doesnt live there anymore lol