subwoofer question

[UGLYLOWLIFE]

I just got this subwoofer from a friend, and i have no clue how shitty or good this sub is. Any of you guys know the specs for this or how good this thing is?

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr32/RANDYYTTRAN/Photo-0225.jpg

[Manuelitoohno]

did you buy it? if so. why wouldnt u do research before. thats your loss

wtf is CV? LOL carrots and vegetables?


and he gave it to you for free. then hey you get what you pay for. in this case nothing so dont complain

[P_856]

cv is cerwin vega just take the screws off and look at the back of the sub im sure it has all the info on it

[Genovese.Jr]

if you paid like a 100 i would beat his ass if i where you

[zenki.life]

its so small.

bet you hear that alot :keke:

[2legit2quit]

cerwin vega is pretty legit. looks a little older and small tho

[GSXRJJordan]

^^^ You guys and your unfounded opinions lol. Go back to chattin with your Best Buy buddies about 'great sound systems'.

That's a Cerwin Vega early VMax series 10" by the looks of it, looks like it's in 3/4 ft^3 but you'd have to measure to know for sure. Depending on how it's wired and powered, could sound OK, but it's certainly not worth much. Measure the box dimensions, measure the diameter of the sub, and pull the screws out and look at the sticker on the back - then I can tell you exactly what you should do with it.

[UGLYLOWLIFE]

did you buy it? if so. why wouldnt u do research before. thats your loss

wtf is CV? LOL carrots and vegetables?


and he gave it to you for free. then hey you get what you pay for. in this case nothing so dont complain

ha i didnt buy it, friend gave it to me for free

[Manuelitoohno]

ha i didnt buy it, friend gave it to me for free

i know i was messing around but. yea if u got for free then dont complain homeboy :coold:

[S14_Kouki]

see we most need a audio section :)

[s14_mike]

take it outta the box take some pics of the magnet in the back

[Tantwoforty]

its its a old vega, probably sounds ok and will work for a little while until you get something new..

[HYPNOTIK]

Hahahahahaha...what's cerwin vega...hahahahaha!!!

Cerwin Vega was smashing windows and winning awards before you fuckers' parents were concieved. Kicker? What's Kicker? hahahahahaha

[RbPowered240z]

Dog fuc* if its good or not buy an amp and bump that shit till it pops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GSXRJJordan]

Hahahahahaha...what's cerwin vega...hahahahaha!!!

Cerwin Vega was smashing windows and winning awards before you fuckers' parents were concieved. Kicker? What's Kicker? hahahahahaha

Seriously!

One word... *STROKER* lol. I actually took a few SQi events with a single IT15 too. Vega is good stuff, quick, efficient, good SQ generally.

[Kaizen.]

Is my Bazooka any good?




lololol jk

[ixfxi]

Seriously!

One word... *STROKER* lol. I actually took a few SQi events with a single IT15 too. Vega is good stuff, quick, efficient, good SQ generally.

haha yup

the strokers were CRAZY

fuckin cerwin vega has been around for a long time and has a good rep (for spl, not so much for quality of course)

but still generally, good strong speakers

[UGLYLOWLIFE]

i believe this is 8 inches 200 watts.

[J90lude]

Don't matter what kind of sub you get its going to bang. Well depending on power wise, as for quality its a complete difference. I don't know much about cerwin vega but in my opinion it's bullshit haha. CV should stand for "Crap Visual" lls

[GSXRJJordan]

i believe this is 8 inches 200 watts.

That's a big box for an 8, meaning tall... like, good luck fitting it anywhere. 8's are nice because you can put them in doors, rear decks, etc.

Hopefully that's 200W power handling @ 4ohms... if you feel like pickin up a cheap little Hifonics/etc amp to power it, go for it, but it won't play that low. My advice, get a decent 10" for our cars.

[UGLYLOWLIFE]

That's a big box for an 8, meaning tall... like, good luck fitting it anywhere. 8's are nice because you can put them in doors, rear decks, etc.

Hopefully that's 200W power handling @ 4ohms... if you feel like pickin up a cheap little Hifonics/etc amp to power it, go for it, but it won't play that low. My advice, get a decent 10" for our cars.

o yea? do you have any cheap amps for me?

[usajdm]

Cerwin Vegas were the s#!t back in the late 80's early 90's.
You could always recognize them by their bright orange surround.
Crewins and Earthquakes were the original knock.

F*@k I'm old..........

[GSXRJJordan]

o yea? do you have any cheap amps for me?

Nope, sorry. Check the car audio forums (caraudio.com/forums I think) and DIYMA.com (do it yourself mobile audio) for sale sections.

Cerwin Vegas were the s#!t back in the late 80's early 90's.
You could always recognize them by their bright orange surround.
Crewins and Earthquakes were the original knock.

F*@k I'm old..........

Srsly. I had two Earthquake 12's (one active, one passive) in my VW back in the day :)

[druthafoo]

Don't matter what kind of sub you get its going to bang. Well depending on power wise, as for quality its a complete difference. I don't know much about cerwin vega but in my opinion it's bullshit haha. CV should stand for "Crap Visual" lls
You're an idiot. Screwing up all your credibility yourself.

What do you like? audiobahn? kicker? bazooka? sony? pyramid?

[Frixco_240]

Kind of O/T but I always liked pioneer subs. Anyways, putting a sub in the trunk of a 240 coupe (any year) sounds really shitty. You will get more rattles than anything if you don't dynomat your trunk lid and all that. Now, in a hatch, it's a complete different story. hatch>coupe if you really want a sub.

[Future240]

Cerwin Vegas were the s#!t back in the late 80's early 90's.
You could always recognize them by their bright orange surround.
Crewins and Earthquakes were the original knock.

F*@k I'm old..........

Since someone won't answer pms, can you tell me how are the current Cerwins VS Kickers? More specifically the Kicker 15" L7.

[GSXRJJordan]

Kind of O/T but I always liked pioneer subs. Anyways, putting a sub in the trunk of a 240 coupe (any year) sounds really shitty. You will get more rattles than anything if you don't dynomat your trunk lid and all that. Now, in a hatch, it's a complete different story. hatch>coupe if you really want a sub.

I would disagree, but then again, I haven't ever owned a car that didn't at least get the trunk and doors dynamat'd. My coupe sounded damn good, and my S14 sounded better even before sound deadening - no rattles!

Since someone won't answer pms, can you tell me how are the current Cerwins VS Kickers? More specifically the Kicker 15" L7.

Haha, sorry Calvin! I just don't have much experience with SPL setups at different price points ~ the car audio forums can help though! Lots of people are in the same boat as you, looking for the best single-sub setup.

Kicker is hard to beat for SPL per sub per dollar - if I were going to spend some cash on a 'supersub' though I've heard some great SQ from a JL 13w7 with a TRU Hammer amp, and heard not so nice things about . Clean power is the only way to get good SQ from the really heavy subs - depending on what amp you're running, Kicker might be the best option.

[druthafoo]

a single kicker L7 in a properly tuned enclosure (I don't remember specifics) can move some air definitely..

Cerwins have gone down hill as far as quality goes.. nothing beats their OG 80s/early 90s stuff.

W7? I'd think you'd recommend another direction vice a W7.

Not putting down the W7, jussayin :P.

[GSXRJJordan]

a single kicker L7 in a properly tuned enclosure (I don't remember specifics) can move some air definitely..

Cerwins have gone down hill as far as quality goes.. nothing beats their OG 80s/early 90s stuff.

W7? I'd think you'd recommend another direction vice a W7.

Not putting down the W7, jussayin :P.

Believe me, I'd prefer a couple of SQ 12's over a single W7, but the truth of the matter is the W7's are one of the better sounding (SQ) 'supersubs' when getting a TON of clean power. The kickers NEVER sound good, and MTX's recent supersub doesn't sound as good as the W7.

I'm really the wrong person to ask about SPL though. I think my SS10R (104dB in my car, in my box, with a very clean ~400W RMS @ 4ohms) is plenty loud!

I'm not a fan of the idea that bigger magnets, suspensions, heavier cones, and power handling makes for a better sub - I like response that ninja-chops you in the stomach on drum hits, and response curves that make you wonder where your sub came in and your mids faded out. :)

[druthafoo]

Believe me, I'd prefer a couple of SQ 12's over a single W7, but the truth of the matter is the W7's are one of the better sounding (SQ) 'supersubs' when getting a TON of clean power. The kickers NEVER sound good, and MTX's recent supersub doesn't sound as good as the W7.

I'm really the wrong person to ask about SPL though. I think my SS10R (104dB in my car, in my box, with a very clean ~400W RMS @ 4ohms) is plenty loud!

I'm not a fan of the idea that bigger magnets, suspensions, heavier cones, and power handling makes for a better sub - I like response that ninja-chops you in the stomach on drum hits, and response curves that make you wonder where your sub came in and your mids faded out. :)
Oxymoronic woulndt you say? Haha.

Whenever I finally find the perfect BMW DD, I think I'm going to go the SQ high efficiency route aka I'm getting older route.

Lol, my SI Mag is real loud for me now, I used to think it was weak versus my old 15" ported RE SX. Whew that was a monster! I might just get lazy and end up packing my Mag in a 1cuft sealed enclosure vs the 2cuft,32hz enclosure its in now.

I also have an Adire Shiva on the side I might end up using. That was my first sub ever.

If it holds true still, the cheapest loudest setup people can get nowadays is to get two 12 or 15 alpine type r's, port the fuck out of them, and throw gobs of power at them (around 1500 W each). Gross sounding but dumb loud for the money.

[Future240]

Haha, sorry Calvin! I just don't have much experience with SPL setups at different price points ~ the car audio forums can help though! Lots of people are in the same boat as you, looking for the best single-sub setup.

Kicker is hard to beat for SPL per sub per dollar - if I were going to spend some cash on a 'supersub' though I've heard some great SQ from a JL 13w7 with a TRU Hammer amp, and heard not so nice things about . Clean power is the only way to get good SQ from the really heavy subs - depending on what amp you're running, Kicker might be the best option.

What is your definition of clean power? Do you mean CEA rated amps?

[druthafoo]

^Not necessarily. Although the CEA rating helps provide credibilty to the amp's claimed specs. I wonder if CEA ratings are actually regulated tho? I duno.

When he says clean he can possibly be saying power from a reputable company that produces high quality amps with quality components aka TRU, old US Amps, ... hell I dont even remember companies any more :(. Brax? McIntosh? Zapco? Arc Audio? RE Audio? MMats? JL?

sundown?

[Future240]

Bump to ask a question.

Could you audiophiles post up a list of amp companies that make this clean sounding amps?

CEA Rating Defintion.

n May 28, 2003, the Consumer Electronics Association published standard CEA-2006, "Testing & Measurement Methods for Mobile Audio Amplifiers." This "voluntary" standard advocates a uniform method for determining an amplifier's RMS power and signal-to-noise ratio. Using 14.4 volts, RMS watts are measured into a 4-ohm impedance load at 1 percent Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) plus noise, at a frequency range (for general purpose amplifiers) of 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. Signal-to-Noise ratio is measured in weighted absolute decibels (dBA) at a reference of 1 watt into 4 ohms. This applies to both external amplifiers and the amplifiers within in-dash receivers.

CEA-2006 allows consumers to be able to compare car amplifiers and receivers on an equal basis. Manufacturers who choose to abide by the new standard are able to stamp their products with the CEA-2006 logo that reads: "Amp Power Standard CEA-2006 Compliant."

Link to models that are CEA rated. (http://www.ce.org/CEA_2006-A_Models.xls)

[WV350Z]

We'll sorry to chime in Late...but I actually run a car audio store.I am a Boston Acoustics,Rockford Fosgate and kicker audio dealer.Vega is more concentrated in the pro studio world more than car audio now.Also I doubt highly you will get mutch out of that 8,specially if you have a decently loud exhaust on your car.

the Kicker L715 is definatly a heavy hitter,but I've noticed a issue with the solos here recently had 4 woofers do this in the past 2 months..on 3 corners only im getting very clean cut slits on the woofers.Picture I took with my Iphone to send to my rep,and were trying to get it figured out.THe L7 is a 1000Watt RMS woofer..Im more of a believer in the CVX 15s tho if your going that route,we did a 2007 dodge charger recently..in a SEALED non ported box with 2 of them on a Hifonics 2000watt amp it hit a 146.2.

Myself im a SQ guy im really big into Boston Acoustics they have Amazing mids and highes..there amps are super clean and effeciant...there all aluminum...still fan cooled..not heat synced.They are a little more pricier than alot of companys but I never have ANY returns on a product...I might have 3 or 4 items a year and in our business thats awesome.They just released there new GTA budget series amps which helps out alot of people who couldnt afford the GT series.
I ran a Boston Acoustics G212 in a 3/4 cube box inverted sealed in my 350Z with a GT20 amp it made 250watts RMS at 2 ohm...I was able to hit a 137.00 in my hatch with that one 12" inverted on 250watts which is sick!

As far as Rockford Goes,Im a old school rockford fan...Im not much on the P1 and P2 woofers faces,there very fragile.the P3 and P3 shallows are nice woofers.The T power series,well there just sick.Rockford also released there prime series stuff this year and for the money the Prime 500-1 you cant beat it for the money i've sold over 50 no returns yet!!!(FINDING SOME WOOD TO KNOCK ON!!)

AS far as the clean power goes...most your companys you see..Pioneer..Sony...Power Acoustik...soundstorm...pheonix gold...rate there amps at MAX power...it might say its a 3000 watt amp..you check the specs..at 14.4 volts at 4 ohms...it may only do 500 watts...the Wal Mart special is what we like to call'em...but if anyone is interested in any product..PM me with any questions I'll try to help as much as I can...and your right....we do need a C.A section...

[WV350Z]

Bump to ask a question.

Could you audiophiles post up a list of amp companies that make this clean sounding amps?

CEA Rating Defintion.



Link to models that are CEA rated. (http://www.ce.org/CEA_2006-A_Models.xls)


Boston Acoustics,Rockford Fosgate,Arc audio,JL Audio,JBL/Infiniti,kicker,

oh ya heres a pic of the Kicker woofer L7 issue i forgot to post..

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Hayame123/l7.jpg

[GSXRJJordan]

Oxymoronic woulndt you say? Haha.

Lol, I'm not a MTX fan, trust me. By supersub, I'm referring to the latest couple generations of SPL woofers, which have gotten massively huge, yet still perform well in small enclosures, and are generally horrible with regards to SQ. This is where all the development is done, because SPL in small enclosures is where the market is for $500+ subs.

What is your definition of clean power? Do you mean CEA rated amps?

Most certainly not.

^Not necessarily. Although the CEA rating helps provide credibilty to the amp's claimed specs. I wonder if CEA ratings are actually regulated tho? I duno.

When he says clean he can possibly be saying power from a reputable company that produces high quality amps with quality components aka TRU, old US Amps, ... hell I dont even remember companies any more :(. Brax? McIntosh? Zapco? Arc Audio? RE Audio? MMats? JL?

sundown?

Exactly ~ CEA is to help clear up power ratings, not quality. 1% THD is enormous, not to say that THD tells the whole story...

I run a TRU 100.4 BB amp... 100w x4 @ 4ohms rated, but has the power supply/handling of about 3x that... plus it's handmade by people I've known for 10 years! Honestly, I've listened to a lot of systems, and it's amazing what a great amp can do to liven up the components (which play 80% of the music you hear). Here's what I recommend:

1) Get an idea for what components you want to run - do you like the metal tweeter 'tinnyness'/harshness, or do you prefer the natural-sounding (but less present) sound of silk-dome tweeters? What size mids do you plan on running? Are you OK running passive (which is the smart/easy thing to do), or do you want to buy a bunch of crap to make running active sound better?

2) All of that component selection tells you what type of power you need ~ lots of components (especially with 5.25" woofers) can sound great on an honest-to-goodness 50w x4 amp... I have a Soundstream Class A 40w x 4 amp from forever ago that sounded fantastic with my current CDT setup, but there was definitely an improvement in SQ at higher listening levels when I went back to a TRU amp.

3) Once you know what components/stage you'd like to run and how much power you think you want, start looking at what the pros are running ~ usually they're people just like you, who are looking for the best sound at the least cost. Sometimes you have to read between the lines a bit, because the lower classes of competition are power-limited, so they tend to use amps that fit their power allotment rather than amps that are the best SQ/$.

4) Look around to find a good deal on the amp you think you're looking for... buying used from a reputable source is GREAT, especially for 4ch amps, because a lot of the older stuff is really good! Because it's 5+yrs old, it loses a bunch of it's value, but some of the old US Amps/Zapco/Hifonics stuff are the best values... great 100w x4 amps for like $200 sometimes.

For subwoofers, the decision-making process is the same, but usually moves much faster... As you'll realize, there's a lot of back and forth between the steps ~ sometimes you get all the way to buying an amp and decide that you'd rather save $1000 and go passive front stage (like me) and rethink everything.

I plan on copying a lot of this thread into the new car audio section, should it ever get put up, so keep the intelligent Q&A going if you'd like :)

[Future240]

I was thinking about trying to go with RE Audio mids, and a Rockford Fosgate amp (If I could afford it) I having been looking at a lot of car audio vids on youtube, and Steave Meade's setup is great. With all that bass he has you can still hear the music clearly, and RE's is what he uses for mids.


To keep the intelligent Q&A going perhaps GSXRJJordan can school us on reccomeneded wire usage. Not brands, but X gauge of wire for Y amount of power.

Here are some other topics:
Extra batteries
Capacitors
Signal Processors
External Bypass VS CD Player Bypass

[GSXRJJordan]

Rockford amps are generally garbage, but some people still use them for sub amps. For 'big three' upgrades, I think anyone with an external amp should be running 4ga at least. When wiring up amp, you want to use the biggest wire the amp supports, usually 4ga. If you're running more than about 100amps total, you should certainly think about goin 1/0ga for main power and ground, but make sure you do it right (crimps done with a real 1/0 crimp tool, high quality posts, etc).

As far as caps go, it's totally symptom-based - if you have a Kinetic battery or similar wired in with an isolator, you probably won't need one, but if you rock a single old, busted OEM batt you might notice some dimming and decreased SPL/woofer control on long bass notes. A 1farad cap is usually plenty, and make sure it's wired in with the same gauge wire as the battery to amp has.

I personally don't use a line driver or signal processor, and don't think they're as neccesaary as some serious listeners make the
out to be, but I will say that they have their place in the market, and in competition. DIYMA has some great writeups on signal processing, and would be a good place to start -as would your local IASCA competItion!

[Rick-95ZE]

see we most need a audio section :)

:wiggle:and about 72%so far would agree: http://zilvia.net/f/polls/278159-zilvia-gets-car-audio-section.html

[Future240]

Rockford amps are generally garbage, but some people still use them for sub amps. For 'big three' upgrades, I think anyone with an external amp should be running 4ga at least. When wiring up amp, you want to use the biggest wire the amp supports, usually 4ga. If you're running more than about 100amps total, you should certainly think about goin 1/0ga for main power and ground, but make sure you do it right (crimps done with a real 1/0 crimp tool, high quality posts, etc).

As far as caps go, it's totally symptom-based - if you have a Kinetic battery or similar wired in with an isolator, you probably won't need one, but if you rock a single old, busted OEM batt you might notice some dimming and decreased SPL/woofer control on long bass notes. A 1farad cap is usually plenty, and make sure it's wired in with the same gauge wire as the battery to amp has.

I personally don't use a line driver or signal processor, and don't think they're as neccesaary as some serious listeners make the
out to be, but I will say that they have their place in the market, and in competition. DIYMA has some great writeups on signal processing, and would be a good place to start -as would your local IASCA competItion!

I am not asking questions for me but just trying to get some info that might help people. What makes rockford amps shitty? Other than Tru bass and the other one you mentioned, what amps would you consider good and why? Can you go with subs and mids as well?

Better what IYO what makes a good sub/amp/mid?

[GSXRJJordan]

I am not asking questions for me but just trying to get some info that might help people. What makes rockford amps shitty? Other than Tru bass and the other one you mentioned, what amps would you consider good and why? Can you go with subs and mids as well?

Better what IYO what makes a good sub/amp/mid?

Good speakers and amps sound good. :) Internet shopping is killing the hobby, IMO... there's no rating system that can accurately convey what a speaker or amp 'sounds like', and most of the people reviewing are unreliable at best.

In general, stay away from anything sold at a retail store (Best Buy, Wal Mart, Al & Eds, etc). Listening to speakers in a wall enclosure at a car audio shop is a good start, and can give you a tiny idea of what they sound like in comparisons to other speakers in the same room, but they're going to sound completely different in a car. Even with some of the industry's best sound-modeling software (BassBox Pro), it's hard to tell what a speaker's going to sound like, although I can certainly spot the stuff that's going to sound 'bad'.

I'm always hesitant to give "carte blanch" recommendations to brands or products I'm not 100% familiar with, but I will say this: I've never heard a metal-cone woofer or mid that sounded as natural as a paper/fiber cone, or reacted as fast. There are low-mass metal cone woofers out there that are supposed to be really good, but I'm just a die-hard SQ fan - I want my stuff to sound good, then continue sounding good as I turn it up past 100dB... metal-cone just hasn't done it for me so far.

Good mids are all about crossover - that's why I suggested looking at component systems, rather than just mids/tweets/xover separately - it makes shopping a lot easier for beginners! My CDT HD-6 mids are great, but I can honestly say that the only reason they perform above their price range is because the CDT 560i crossover works so damned well with their 6.5" mids and their 26mm tweeters ~ that and I modeled and built that sealed enclosure for them lol. But that really was for the bottom end response, not where the crossover plays.

I had Oz Matrix 180cs components in my SQ VW (the first components to get "perfect 10" ratings in IASCA), and they were fantastic, but almost $1000, and required a bit more power (which I originally didn't have with the CDTs). Lots of high-end components (Focal, Rainbows, Dynaudio, there's more) sound very good, but they each have their own 'signiature', and at that level of fidelity the 'flavor' that each component puts on the music is what you're listening *and paying* for - they all 'sound good'.

For amps, you want more power handling than you need so the amp is never stressed, and nice smooth frequency response across the audible spectrum. Lower THD is nice, but honestly the measurements for THD are not nearly as accurate as the amps themselves now, so this can't be your only buying criteria. Class A is very inefficient and not popular, but some of the older Class A stuff sounds tits... Class AB is most common, stay away from Class D if you care about SQ.

Sorry for being so vague, but honestly you've got to go listen and once you find out what you listen for and get a benchmark of what sounds good to you, you can start trusting other's opinions and recommendations. A big part of my endeavors in SQ has been having my dad's "Class A" home stereo as a benchmark... he's got Fulton Premiere speakers (11 drivers per side, approx the size of refrigerators lol) from the 70's that have been hand rebuilt, Parasound's best solid state amp driving them (conservatively 500W per channel @ 8ohms), an Audio Research tube pre-amp, and has switched from an Audio Research to Meridian to some new CD transport/decoder setup. Of course he's got hugely expensive interconnects and speaker wire, also... the system's insured @ $100k I think lol... it's incredibly accurate, and the soundstage is better than live concerts. I measure all my sound systems against this, and so far, my current setup has come the closest.