9/11 Conspiracy Thread

[SexPanda]

Here you go guys. A place to discuss what you think 9.11.01 was really about.

No name calling

No put downs

Follow the rules of zilvia.

Kthnxbai.

[ALTRNTV]

The 9/11 attacks were masterminded by Osama Bin Laden, leader of the Al Qaeda terrorist network.
No conspiracy. kthxbye

[ThatGuy]

No name calling? Fuck that!

IF YOU BELIEVE THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11, 2001 WERE THE ACTS OF THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IN SOME KIND OF SECRET CONSPIRACY, THEN YOU'RE AN IDIOT.

Feel free to post whatever bullshit "YouTube" evidence you have though.

I have said all that needs to be said. I will not participate in any debates over this matter. It's not worth my time.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Sweet...perfect time to talk about this so we can disrespect everybody who died that day and everybody else who died after we went to war. What the military death count right now? Oh yah, over 5,022 from what I've seen so far...

[SexPanda]

I completely agree with you Barry. Some idiotic zealots didn't like what America stood for, so they decided to do one of the most cowardly things in the History of our nation.

This thread is here to keep the rif raf out of the other thread. I said no name calling because I don't want this thread to turn into a giant butthurt fest. Im not saying people who think it was our government arent complete fucktards...

[qwikspool]

terrorist did it.

[karl wasabi]

Is this something like the Holocaust never happened?

I hear we never landed on the moon...

[JeremyR]

i'm not a blind zealot and just believe everything i'm told. and trying to say its a disgrace to the fallen to question it is a cop out. its more of a disgrace to not properly investigate what happened. clean up started RIGHT AWAY on the site, which was a crime scene and needed to be investigated. coupled with the fact that jet fuel can not burn through the steel structure of a building, and that fire alone cannot bring it down. their are numerous buildings around the world that have survived plane crashes and monsterous fires. and those are documented in those "youtube" videos.

this is all i have to say on the matter. everyone is entitled to their own opinions. but balantly putting them down, or calling them idiots, or calling them unpatriotic is the wrong way to go about things.

[fliprayzin240sx]

I dont have a problem with these kinds of thread, I was in the middle of it all, I seen and heard some stuff first hand that makes me go "eh?" to this very day. The problem I have is the timing...how is something like this gonna be discussed on one of the most solemn days we've ever had. 9/11 is our generation's Pearl Harbor...respect the day, respect those who died...

[SexPanda]

Ok, so the temperature of burning jet fuel is less than that of melting steel.

The temperature of gas is less than that of melting steel too. But have you ever seen the metal frame of a building after a fire when an accelerant is used? The metal doesnt melt, no, but it becomes brittle enough to where I could take a relatively thick peice and bend it with my hands. Im no structural engineer, nor do I believe anyone on Zilvia is, but I can believe that such a large fire in an enclosed space can cause enough fatigue to the metal frame to cause a failure. I've seen it in arson in metal frame buildings (firefighter friends), so I don't doubt that it was the reason behind the WTC collapse.

[ranger240]

i'm not a blind zealot and just believe everything i'm told. and trying to say its a disgrace to the fallen to question it is a cop out. its more of a disgrace to not properly investigate what happened. clean up started RIGHT AWAY on the site, which was a crime scene and needed to be investigated. coupled with the fact that jet fuel can not burn through the steel structure of a building, and that fire alone cannot bring it down. their are numerous buildings around the world that have survived plane crashes and monstrous fires. and those are documented in those "youtube" videos.

this is all i have to say on the matter. everyone is entitled to their own opinions. but blatantly putting them down, or calling them idiots, or calling them unpatriotic is the wrong way to go about things.

whats your source for that gem on jet fuel??? you should watch more history channel brah, that source is a little more accredited than some pissed off and shunned academic outcast who's sick of not getting attention for his (self-perceived intellectual) capabilities through conventional veins, so they sit in their moms basement coming up with plausible causality.


for instance that stupid 9/11 conspiracy theory youtube vid that came out two years ago.. (the really popular one) had TONS of simple fact-errors that my untrained brain could pick up. granted im an exceptional genius (just like those conspiracy theorists in parents basements) BUT if any dumb-ass tries to pass along shit as fact and doesnt know that B-52s weren't even made when that b-24 hit the empire state building, then they are not worth ANY of your time.

in closing. conspiracy theorists are stupid and go off this not-so complex theoretical algorithm.

ready for it...

on any given day, in the world there are trillions of individual events occurring, most are unrelated but they all contribute in aggregate to what happened that day.

theorists take an action then apply their own rationality for it that corresponds with their theory. i could go through events that happened today and say that the coast guard mix up on the Potomac was in fact a terrorist attack. and guess what, the key to a conspiracy theorist is Lies.
lies are hard to be proven, i could amass a ton of media about that thing, then find out some convoluted causality, AND THEN i could use the LIE excuse whenever countered. i.e.
"The Government Is Lying, thats why my theory hardly makes any sense. its not my fault, they're liars, i'm not lying to gain notoriety and attention (athmmm Michael Moore), i'm telling the truth. How do i know? because i've been sitting alone and lonely in my moms basement making (up) this conspiracy theory."

in closing.. believe whatever the hell you want, but don't be stupid (unless you are stupid)

stupid people believe in stupid stuff all the time

T7EEOMbBIO8




goodnight conspiracy believers, you're all shit on by me. you all fail. go back to your moms basement.




EDIT: on a more serious note, this is hardly an appropriate day to be digging up this crap. lets mourn the dead, pray for their families and hope that such events do not occur in the future.

[S14_Kouki]

Theres to many people that would have been involved to keep it a secret. Its not a conspiracy

[Jimmy Up]

Ok, so to you guys who really believe it was a terrorist attack, what do we make of what happened at the pentagon?

[Teddy]

Bush set it up to go to war in search for oil control, no fucking doubt about it.

And anyone who doesn't think this is either BLIND, IGNORANT, or chooses not to believe it.

[sidewaysil80]

i try and avoid this conversation as much as possible but i will say this...i think alot of things don't add up and i think those things need to be questioned. for those of you who deem it unamerican to question 9/11, you have no right to even make that statement. people dont want it to be true that our country was behind 9/11 HELL i dont want to believe it. but everything that happened at the pentagon was the final straw. i dont necasserily(sp) believe that our country masterminded it...but i do believe their is alot they're not telling us and i would really really like to see the confiscated pentagon tapes...

[JeremyR]

whats your source for that gem on jet fuel??? you should watch more history channel brah, that source is a little more accredited than some pissed off and shunned academic outcast who's sick of not getting attention for his (self-perceived intellectual) capabilities through conventional veins, so they sit in their moms basement coming up with plausible causality.


for instance that stupid 9/11 conspiracy theory youtube vid that came out two years ago.. (the really popular one) had TONS of simple fact-errors that my untrained brain could pick up. granted im an exceptional genius (just like those conspiracy theorists in parents basements) BUT if any dumb-ass tries to pass along shit as fact and doesnt know that B-52s weren't even made when that b-24 hit the empire state building, then they are not worth ANY of your time.

in closing. conspiracy theorists are stupid and go off this not-so complex theoretical algorithm.

ready for it...

on any given day, in the world there are trillions of individual events occurring, most are unrelated but they all contribute in aggregate to what happened that day.

theorists take an action then apply their own rationality for it that corresponds with their theory. i could go through events that happened today and say that the coast guard mix up on the Potomac was in fact a terrorist attack. and guess what, the key to a conspiracy theorist is Lies.
lies are hard to be proven, i could amass a ton of media about that thing, then find out some convoluted causality, AND THEN i could use the LIE excuse whenever countered. i.e.
"The Government Is Lying, thats why my theory hardly makes any sense. its not my fault, they're liars, i'm not lying to gain notoriety and attention (athmmm Michael Moore), i'm telling the truth. How do i know? because i've been sitting alone and lonely in my moms basement making (up) this conspiracy theory."




its obvious you haven't seen that "youtube" video. which is called loose change 2nd editon btw, and didnt even start out as a youtube video. it explains the jet fuel "theory" and it also explains about what happened at the pentagon as well.

theory on the pentagon is explained in detail in this video: http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main

also, maybe you should watch more history channel, brah. they have specials on 9/11 all the time.

but they also have specials on the "prophet" nostradamus. but then, don't tell me you believe everything you see on television, do you?

oh, i also bet you believe everything the news and the medai and the government tells you as well. i mean, they can't lie! that would be dishonerable. right. like no ones ever lied before. everybody lies. EVERYBODY.

i'm not saying the loose change video is cold hard fact. but i'm saying it raises some interesting points.

not "oh, we got hit by terrorists plains trying to take down the american way a life"

than you get all the brainless racist bible belt super pro america right wingers (which make up the majority of the nation.) saying "godamn towel heads tryna hurt america fuck that lets nuke them fuckers" and other ignorant shit.

of course, we've all seen the "terrorists attack america but bruce willis/stallone/who the fuck ever come and save the day" movies. so of course a real life event like this, which all of us have already seen many times in the movies, would just be the easy cop out story.

america never lies, cheats, breaks the rules, and we sure as shit never interrogated people at guantnamo bay.


FDR had advanced knowledge of the pearl harbor attacks. thanks to the US cracking the japanese code in 1940. but he let the attack happen in order to sway the public opinion into joining ww2. we were already secretly sending the british supplys, and having an unfortunate incident happen would surely throw us straight into the war.

i'm not going to sit here and dig up all the sources. you have a computer, do it yourself. but of course, you're probably too lazy to do that. you'd rather just believe the easy answer and go on with your life. and thats fine.

the horrible loss of life has already happened. nothing can change that. i wish it could. and i used to believe it was a terrorist attack. untill i stumbled onto loose change, which raised my own questions and then did my own research into it. i don't go out trying to force my view point on anyone. this is america. and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. in fact i don't even think about it half the time.

ultimately, it boils down to money and power. like teddy said, its about oil. which intern equals money and power.

[turbo_dreams]

So i live in ny, i'm muslim, and this thread sucks.

[Genovese.Jr]

it was a terrorist attack the end.

[JeremyR]

it was a terrorist attack the end.
you're exactly right, it was a terrorist attack.

dictionary.com:
ter⋅ror⋅isthttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/T01/T0167200)
1.a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.
2.a person who terrorizes or frightens others.



bush lying about 911:
Sm73wOuPL60

evidence that bush had advanced knowledge of 911:
KlWSv0NZBRw

rumsfeld slips that flight 93 was shot down:
NNuosBnlw5s


you may be able to try and debunk the theorys, but not the words straight out of bush/rumsfeld mouth.


evidence of building 7 demolition:
ezIU6ZxYU3A


missles attached to planes hit wtc:
wbCcb6NV8Io


i could go on for days with videos of evidence. but some people just can't fathom the idea that politicians would lie to us for their own benefits.


if you had the chance to get away with murder, and the outcome being millions, billions of dollars in your pocket due to the actions you took, would you do it?

some people would. not everyone, not the majority of people, but some people would kill for that.

[r6_240sx]

Haven't you guys watched the South Park episode, Mystery of the Urinal Deuce?!

The government started up the rumor that they caused 9/11 even though they didn't so people would think they are all powerful and continue to fear them, jeez.

http://player.longtailvideo.com/player.swf?file=http://allsp.com/xml.php?id=148&backcolor=333333&&frontcolor=ffffff&lightcolor=ff0000&volume=100&autostart=true&plugins=tipjar-1&tipjar.title=EPISODE%20FINISHED:%20Considered%20Do nating?&tipjar.text=(If%20this%20message%20appears%20in%20 error%20before%20the%20episode%20should%20end%20th e%20connection%20has%20failed.%20Please%20try%20re loading%20the%20page%20and%20allow%20episodes%20to %20buffer)%20If%20you%20like%20ALLSP%20supporting% 20the%20developers%20by%20donating%20would%20be%20 hugely%20appreciated!&[email protected]&tipjar.return_url=http://allsp.com/donationthanks.html&tipjar.show_pause=false

[SimpleS14]

wow...I can't believe this thread was started on that date. I have my own thoughts and feelings, but at least show some respect...

Anyways, I feel there is an entity or group of people outside the norm (aka "you would usually expect") that were involved with this. We will never know the names and afflications that took part with this.

Infact, we may never even see the declassified files related to this....

[S14_Kouki]

idk what to think anymore theres alot of good info on both sides

[SexPanda]

I'd like to apologize for creating this thread on such a sobering day... But I mearly meant to keep the bullshit out of the real thread.

I believe people that hated what America stood for perpetrated 9/11. Take that as you will, alot of stuff doesnt add up, but I still find it hard to believe that the US Government would do it. Impossible? No. Highly unlikely? IMO, yes.

[Sleepy240]

You believe what you want to believe. Everybody is out to sway peoples opinion (even if you don't admit it). The way I look at it is if the government was somehow behind this I severely doubt they would have DEMOLISHED the towers. All they would have needed was the "terrorist" attacks to be able to declare war and get all of this "billions" of dollars that I have not seen. Only people who theorize that the government is behind this seem to bring money into the equation, when I don't care how greedy and/or stupid you are, there is NO WAY that killing thousands of innocent civilians would be worth any amount of money. Also by assuming the government was "behind" this whole operation they must have been working with these terrorist groups then? How else would you explain the phone calls from the people ON flight 93? Obviously they taped loved ones voices and then played them using a computer to call their families? Or maybe they were in on it too? Did they all move to some super secret island in the tropics with all the billions of dollars they got for pulling off the biggest trick ever? I mean seriously get the fuck out. My problem with everyone of the conspiracy theories is that to be honest, I think even you have to admit, there is no cut and dry evidence either way. I whole heartedly believe that actual TERRORISTS targeted the WTC, the Pentagon, and ultimately flight 93 that ended in the field not far from my freaking house.

[S14_Kouki]

^ you make a very valid point^

[duffman1278]

I still just find it hard to believe that the entire structure could have collapsed, it just doesn't seem to make sense when you look at studies of metal and how it reacts to high temperatures or even to get to those temperatures.

Another thing is, iirc the U.S. government has made money off every war we've ever been in except this one and I believe one other. And why go after Saddam, it should be Osama?

[ALTRNTV]

I still just find it hard to believe that the entire structure could have collapsed, it just doesn't seem to make sense when you look at studies of metal and how it reacts to high temperatures or even to get to those temperatures.

Another thing is, iirc the U.S. government has made money off every war we've ever been in except this one and I believe one other. And why go after Saddam, it should be Osama?
Does the Afghanistan War ring a bell?

[duffman1278]

I know I know but just feels like its steered away from the main conflict.

[BustedS13]

its obvious you haven't seen that "youtube" video. which is called loose change 2nd editon btw, and didnt even start out as a youtube video. it explains the jet fuel "theory" and it also explains about what happened at the pentagon as well.

theory on the pentagon is explained in detail in this video: Pentagon Strike (http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main)

also, maybe you should watch more history channel, brah. they have specials on 9/11 all the time.

but they also have specials on the "prophet" nostradamus. but then, don't tell me you believe everything you see on television, do you?

oh, i also bet you believe everything the news and the medai and the government tells you as well. i mean, they can't lie! that would be dishonerable. right. like no ones ever lied before. everybody lies. EVERYBODY.

i'm not saying the loose change video is cold hard fact. but i'm saying it raises some interesting points.

not "oh, we got hit by terrorists plains trying to take down the american way a life"

than you get all the brainless racist bible belt super pro america right wingers (which make up the majority of the nation.) saying "godamn towel heads tryna hurt america fuck that lets nuke them fuckers" and other ignorant shit.

of course, we've all seen the "terrorists attack america but bruce willis/stallone/who the fuck ever come and save the day" movies. so of course a real life event like this, which all of us have already seen many times in the movies, would just be the easy cop out story.

america never lies, cheats, breaks the rules, and we sure as shit never interrogated people at guantnamo bay.


FDR had advanced knowledge of the pearl harbor attacks. thanks to the US cracking the japanese code in 1940. but he let the attack happen in order to sway the public opinion into joining ww2. we were already secretly sending the british supplys, and having an unfortunate incident happen would surely throw us straight into the war.

i'm not going to sit here and dig up all the sources. you have a computer, do it yourself. but of course, you're probably too lazy to do that. you'd rather just believe the easy answer and go on with your life. and thats fine.

the horrible loss of life has already happened. nothing can change that. i wish it could. and i used to believe it was a terrorist attack. untill i stumbled onto loose change, which raised my own questions and then did my own research into it. i don't go out trying to force my view point on anyone. this is america. and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. in fact i don't even think about it half the time.

ultimately, it boils down to money and power. like teddy said, its about oil. which intern equals money and power.

:l101: Loose Change is a bullshit movie full of lies and fabrication.
:l101: You are fucking retarded.
:l101: The More You Know™

[JeremyR]

:l101: Loose Change is a bullshit movie full of lies and fabrication.
:l101: You are fucking retarded.
:l101: The More You Know™


its easy to talk shit when you bring nothing to the table.
and it's fucking pathetic to put me down, when i havent put down a single person on here. everyones entitled to their own opinion. thats what america is about.

blindly following everything and not questioning things is the easy way out.

it would be nice if we had hoenst politcians, but we dont.

All they would have needed was the "terrorist" attacks to be able to declare war and get all of this "billions" of dollars that I have not seen. Only people who theorize that the government is behind this seem to bring money into the equation, when I don't care how greedy and/or stupid you are, there is NO WAY that killing thousands of innocent civilians would be worth any amount of money. Also by assuming the government was "behind" this whole operation they must have been working with these terrorist groups then?

you dont see the money, the guy who bought insurance protecting the WTC from terrorists attacks see's the money. bush see's the money for his oil business he runs. of course you dont see the money.

and of course killing thousands of innocent civilians is worth money. you telling me war isnt a good reason for money? and even if the government is behind it. that doesnt mean they had to be working with terrorist. it could of been a completely independent act. someone has to take the fall. so of course, pin it on extremist in the middle east, typecast a whole race of people. hell, even IF they worked with terrorist, so what? wouldnt be the first time. osama received cia training in the 80s. and after the 911 attacks, his family was flown out of the US by the government.


im threw arguing in this thread. i dont give a shit what you believe. but dont dismiss MY point of view, when you have done no reasearch into it yourself. most of you should spend less time on zilvia, and more time educating yourself and doing research. lots of people profited ($$$) from the 911 tragedy. which is fucking disgusting. but their are truly evil people in the world. i consider hitler an evil person, and look who he brainwashed. their were people who disagreed with what he did, and then, their were people who bought every fucking word he said and did what he wanted them to do.

so why is it so hard to comprehend, that that couldnt possibly happen somewhere else?
powerful political figures using the media to sway public opinion. it happened in germany and austria, why not in america? oh wait. it already does.

like i said. i've done enough reasearch into the matter, maybe some of you should as well.

[XperienceM5G]

Here you go guys. A place to discuss what you think 9.11.01 was really about.

No name calling

No put downs

Follow the rules of zilvia.

Kthnxbai.

You can't believe everything you see on the internet just like you can't believe everything you see on the TV.

I understand that everyone is going to have their own opinions about it. But it's not about who's opinion is better, so let's do our best to be mature and not flame because you can't handle someone elses opinion.
For the sake of intelligent conversation at least.

[Sleepy240]

its obvious you haven't seen that "youtube" video. which is called loose change 2nd editon btw, and didnt even start out as a youtube video. it explains the jet fuel "theory" and it also explains about what happened at the pentagon as well.

theory on the pentagon is explained in detail in this video: Pentagon Strike

Ok I'll bite. I have seen "both" Loose Change movies which in all honesty are very similar. It doesn't really explain the "jet fuel theory", all it does is state how THEY view things happening. Both sides have ENGINEERS, Construction Workers, Architectural designers saying they are correct and the other side is wrong. Conspiracy side says, "No way could jet fuel burn hot enough to melt the steel. They obviously had bombs, or used thermite. This is an inside job!!". The government side says, "The impact and heat was enough to sufficiently weaken the structure to the point where it would fail.". The Pentagon "strike" as you call it has no evidence to support any of the missile attack theories or the like. If any conspirators believe that an airplane leaves a cutout of its shape in a crash like in the cartoons your sadly mistaken. Hell just look at the twin towers. If you didn't see that it was a plane, you could have told me it was a bomb and I would have agreed. And on top of the the pentagon is a REINFORCED security bunker DESIGNED to resist impacts so damage would be minimal, IE the relatively small damage compared to that of the towers. Next your video complains that they can't find the tail or wings to the plane. Did you need to find the tail, or wings believe a plane crashed into the towers? The plane is nothing but fucking aluminum.

also, maybe you should watch more history channel, brah. they have specials on 9/11 all the time.

but they also have specials on the "prophet" nostradamus. but then, don't tell me you believe everything you see on television, do you?

oh, i also bet you believe everything the news and the medai and the government tells you as well. i mean, they can't lie! that would be dishonerable. right. like no ones ever lied before. everybody lies. EVERYBODY.

Let me start this by saying your spelling is the most atrocious thing I have ever seen. But honestly why even bring up the Nostradamus predictions? That has no relevance to anything. The history channel shows lots of INFORMATIVE shows about ACTUAL events(IE 9/11). Plenty of people in the media lie, I'd gladly trust a credible news network than some bullshit anybody in the 7th grade can type online. You don't need any sources to post online, and frankly most people are gullible enough to believe you. Just look at the people who fall for the "Nigerian Billionaire" scams. I could make a website that declares that aliens actually fired missiles and used holograms to make them look like planes and that is how the Towers were attacked. Oh wait somebody already came up with that and PEOPLE BELIEVE IT. So again I'll gladly trust CNN or for Christs sake Fox before I trust some crazy conspirator online.

i'm not saying the loose change video is cold hard fact. but i'm saying it raises some interesting points.

not "oh, we got hit by terrorists plains trying to take down the american way a life"

than you get all the brainless racist bible belt super pro america right wingers (which make up the majority of the nation.) saying "godamn towel heads tryna hurt america fuck that lets nuke them fuckers" and other ignorant shit.

Again seriously before I start, LEARN TO FUCKING SPELL CHECK. Download fucking FIREFOX it can automatically check your text! Your not saying its cold hard fact because it is not. Sadly your smart enough to realize its garbage but still don't put 2 and 2 together. The "movie" (and I use that term very loosely) is basically exactly what your complaining about. To the government spreads nothing but a lot of propaganda and lies. Go figure that is exactly what "Loose Change" is. It is nothing but third rate sources with sixth rate information spun into a giant cluster fuck of fail. And as far as you grouping "the majority of the nation" into the "brainless racist bible belt super pro America right wingers" I have to disagree. Maybe in your hick town but for the majority of educated Adults this is not the case. I think you need to check what you say before you just spit out this pile of phlegm. Your random generalizations make me realize how meek you really are. Its pretty obvious as to why you believe A LOT of the 9/11 conspiracy propaganda. The key with propaganda is its easy to get to the people who are weak minded and don't think for themselves (that is you in case you missed it).

of course, we've all seen the "terrorists attack america but bruce willis/stallone/who the fuck ever come and save the day" movies. so of course a real life event like this, which all of us have already seen many times in the movies, would just be the easy cop out story.

This has no relevance to ANYTHING in this entire thread :doh:, maybe you clicked on the wrong thread when you tried to post a reply?

america never lies, cheats, breaks the rules, and we sure as shit never interrogated people at guantnamo bay.

Can you please give me a instance when America lied? Guantanamo (Notice how that is spelled?) Bay was the act of some scumbag individuals, not the great conspirator George Bush and cohorts.

FDR had advanced knowledge of the pearl harbor attacks. thanks to the US cracking the japanese code in 1940. but he let the attack happen in order to sway the public opinion into joining ww2. we were already secretly sending the british supplys, and having an unfortunate incident happen would surely throw us straight into the war.

Finally! Something with some truth! I have no doubt that they had knowledge of an imminent attack. How believable was it? It was about as believable as the attacks on Pearl Harbor. You honestly expected a country that had NEVER been attacked to believe the Japanese were going to sail across the ocean to bomb us? To be 100% honest I would undoubtedly had made the same decision Roosevelt had made and ignored it. I can't speak for fact but I'm sure there were tons of other random "intercepted messages". Pearl Harbor was the last time that American soil was "truly" attacked (unless you consider the original WTC bombings, which personally I don't). It was no secret we were sending the British supplies, we also were sending supplies to other foreign countries. Just because your not AT war doesn't mean your not involved in it. I'll give you a hint, they called it a "World War" for a reason (and that was before the USA was involved).

i'm not going to sit here and dig up all the sources. you have a computer, do it yourself. but of course, you're probably too lazy to do that. you'd rather just believe the easy answer and go on with your life. and thats fine.

It is OK, I can google "9/11 Conspiracy" and few 12893719823 sources for your information.

its easy to talk shit when you bring nothing to the table.
and it's fucking pathetic to put me down, when i havent put down a single person on here. everyones entitled to their own opinion. thats what america is about.

blindly following everything and not questioning things is the easy way out.

it would be nice if we had hoenst politcians, but we dont.

I'll await your reply =)

[SimpleS14]

And on top of the the pentagon is a REINFORCED security bunker DESIGNED to resist impacts so damage would be minimal, IE the relatively small damage compared to that of the towers. Next your video complains that they can't find the tail or wings to the plane. Did you need to find the tail, or wings believe a plane crashed into the towers? The plane is nothing but fucking aluminum.

I have to point out that the comment about "no tail or wing" in the video is related to the Pentagon. The damage to the Pentagon was minimal (as you said), yet there is hardly any debris laid across the field that is common with a plane crash.

There are pictures of planes hitting mountains and even then there are recognizable pieces of a tail, wing and/or other large pieces debris.

Example:
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/news_images/20080629/p11c.jpg

[BustedS13]

Open Microsoft Word and do the following.
Type the capital letters Q33 NY. This was the flight number of the first plane that hit one of the towers.
Highlight Q33 NY.
Change the font size to 48.
Change the actual font to Wingdings.
Now what do you think?

[SexPanda]

Open Microsoft Word and do the following.
Type the capital letters Q33 NY. This was the flight number of the first plane that hit one of the towers.
Highlight Q33 NY.
Change the font size to 48.
Change the actual font to Wingdings.
Now what do you think?

So Microsoft perpetrated September 11, 2001? Well, AT&T did lease 11,000 square feet of the WTC. And AT&T has the Apple Iphone... Do you see where Im going with this?

In all seriousness, the whole word thing, and the 20 dollar bill thing... IMO just coincidence.:down:

[nakedave]

This thread is an insult to every single american soldier (especially those that died overseas since 9/11.) You can debate this all you want, either way, you can't change what happened. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up faster. This thread disgusts me.

[SexPanda]

This thread is an insult to every single american soldier (especially those that died overseas since 9/11.) You can debate this all you want, either way, you can't change what happened. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up faster. This thread disgusts me.

My father has been in Iraq, Afghanistan and the UAE 4 of the last 8 years, until his retirement. I've lost friends in Iraq, and I now have a friend with PTSD. Once again, I made this thread to keep all of the bullshit out of the other thread. Accept it for what it is. Its not pretty, I know, but I'd rather have the bullshit going on here than in general OT.

[BustedS13]

ooh the $20 is the spookiest!!!!!
it's like, you fold it, and there's TEH WTC!!! and then you're like, wow that was crazy, and you flip it over and it's like OMG THE pENTAGOON!!!!!!!"

ALSO DID U KNOW THAT THERE R 11 LETTERS IN "NEW YORK CITY"

[SexPanda]

ooh the $20 is the spookiest!!!!!
it's like, you fold it, and there's TEH WTC!!! and then you're like, wow that was crazy, and you flip it over and it's like OMG THE pENTAGOON!!!!!!!"

ALSO DID U KNOW THAT THERE R 11 LETTERS IN "NEW YORK CITY"

LEIK OMG NO WAYZ!!! 11 Letters in NEW YORK CITY! THATS SCARY!

But in all seriousness, you realize there are people out there stupid enough to think that shit is legit.

Like, 300 years ago, someone decided "I'll call this city New York City, because on the 11th day of some month in the future, something bad will happen. And I put a hint in the name."

[BustedS13]

it used to be New Amsterdam. they changed it because it was too many letters.

i think i heard that in Loose Change

[SexPanda]

If you look hard enough, you will find Shakespeare in See Spot Run, and Mozart in NOFX.

[BustedS13]

you ever sync up Dark Side of the Moon with Wizard of Oz, man? that's another thing the government doesn't want u to know about.

third lion roar, man. third lion roar.

[Matej]

The government made a deal with a rather well known NYC real estate developer who hired David Copperfield to make the towers disappear.
As for the plane crashes, that was all work of Michael Bay.
I cannot believe there are still people out there who believe the terrorist story.

[deolio]

nah bro...........

[sidewaysil80]

This thread is an insult to every single american soldier (especially those that died overseas since 9/11.) You can debate this all you want, either way, you can't change what happened. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up faster. This thread disgusts me.

no its not...they didnt die because of the twin towers they died over a war in iraq. let me ask you a question, say the street gang the bloods went on a field trip to saudi arabia...they decided to bomb something while there. then the saudia govt declares war against them. how would you feel about them invading our country while the tracked them down and turned our country into a warzone. would you sit on your ass or would you defend the country against invaders, even though you DONT agree with the bloods or their actions? the war in iraq was a joke, it is a joke. we should have been in afghanistan from day one and stayed their. i'm god damned ashamed that we were there and it went on as long as it did...especially while the war profiteers pockets got fatter and fatter. and a quick disclosure...
before anyone attempts to call me out or ask me "who do you think you are" i strongly advise you keep that shit to yourself, i've given more and done more for this country more then prop 98% people on this board. im god damned sick and tired of people saying if you question 9/11 your un-american or your disgracing the dead...fuck that...not questioning is disgracing them. we dont fight for this corrupt ass govt (been that way for decades) we/most un brainwashed people in the grunts fight for each other and nothing more. i'm not getting involved in this thread anymore.

[drftmark]

I knew someone who died in the war, that does not mean I am dishonoring them by thinking our govt was responsible. The innocent people on the plane didn't "have" to be in on it to get killed.

They were collateral as well as everyone else in the trade centers. There is thousands of people who were there that heard multiple explosions before the planes even hit. The lead engineers who made the WTC's have said that the buildings could have taken multiple hit's by planes and still stand.

Also the buildings fell at free fall speed. (not even gonna talk about building 7 cause that i just a 'wtf how did that even fall') If you watched the WTC's, you could see them fall like there was nothing beneath them. Where the plane hit, 6 floors below it was fine, electricity was on and everything, totally normal. SO how could it have fallen at free fall speed when there is 70+ unaffected floors beneath it acting as a resistance?

[Matej]

This thread is an insult to every single american soldier (especially those that died overseas since 9/11.) You can debate this all you want, either way, you can't change what happened. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up faster. This thread disgusts me.
http://www.littlepatriotsembraced.com/images/big_flag.gif

[ranger240]

its obvious you haven't seen that "youtube" video. which is called loose change 2nd editon ... blah blah blah

yeah thanks for giving me the title of the dumb-ass movie. its clear the idiots who made it didnt go through facts with much scrutiny.

i didnt read the rest of what you said because its a waste of time.

Loose change was stupid (i DID watch it) and it is a weak cornerstone source of information for the conspiracy argument.

what were the credentials of the people who made that vid? besides being some lonely kid in their moms basement....

[ranger240]

There is thousands of people who were there that heard multiple explosions before the planes even hit.

The lead engineers who made the WTC's have said that the buildings could have taken multiple hit's by planes and still stand.

Also the buildings fell at free fall speed. (not even gonna talk about building 7 cause that i just a 'wtf how did that even fall') If you watched the WTC's, you could see them fall like there was nothing beneath them. Where the plane hit, 6 floors below it was fine, electricity was on and everything, totally normal. SO how could it have fallen at free fall speed when there is 70+ unaffected floors beneath it acting as a resistance?

stupid idiot argument 1.. multiple explosions. whats the common statement on Eyewitness accounts? that they're notoriously unreliable. if you hear a big bang and later saw a building collapse, and that building also made a big bang sound, wouldnt you relate them? possibly. now if you remember a bang before the plane hit, wouldnt you say well that doesnt make sense, that bang must have came from the building.

its how the human brain works (well maybe except for some people in this thread) what if that rational association was flawed. this is drawing upon intro philosophy class, the bird and sonic boom proof. it goes something like everytime a person see/hears (or smething) a bird they also hear a sonic boom. now that person, without knowing anything else would assume that there is a causal relationship between the bird and the sonic boom, we know that isnt true. now say they hear a sonic boom and then they hear another sonic boom when they see the bird. are they going to believe that the bird caused it? nope

i hope you get how that relates to the "i heard an explosion, then i heard an explosion and saw the plane hit"

stupid idiot argument 2 the plane/structure issue. if im not mistaken, the WTC was designed to take theoretical hits from the largest airplane available at the time of its design, which was the boeing 707 if i remember correctly.

in addition, wouldnt the designers go out publically and say "oh yeah it wasnt a badly designed building, its certainly not my fault"? of course they would, to preserve their reputation.

i could rip apart this stupid argument further, citing how many uncontrolled variables there are associated with something as massive as the WTC attacks, and how a theoretical model certainly could not have tested for all of them... but if you believe what loose change tells you, you're obviously not smart enough to get it.

third stupid argument 3 the gravity b.s. the ONLY thing your statement says that has anything remotely to do with actual physics is the word resistance. you said, yeah it looks like it was falling unhindered? how do you know? you dont. youre going off this empirical fallacy that is central to conspiracy theories. let me dig up my physics textbook.... yeah everything falls at a rate of g = 9.81 m/s squared

lets see the twin towers were 442 meters high so tell me how long would it take something 442 meters up to fall to the ground?

how can you say, "oh they looked like they were in free fall" and expect that to hold weight? an eyewitness testimony of physics? yeahhhh.

heres a thought, how about we take a picture of two balls of similar size and different weight falling off the leaning tower of pisa, then we edit the video so that it is infact falling 5% slower. do you think some slob off the street will recognize that it is not in fact falling at free-fall? NOPE

let me further bury your idiot argument. (i used this argument of orientation/distance/percieved speed to justify why i get speeding tickets) this is to explain why you and countless idiots thought it fell too fast

perceived speed (i.e. how fast something looks) entirely depends on ones distance from it in addition to its actual speed. it also depends on the aptitude of the witness (how fast they can process information) but anyway. thats why an airplane up in the sky appears to inch along and like 5 inches a minute, its 40,000 miles away. try to stay with me dumb-ass. so if you see something like the twin towers fall from a camera say 3 miles away, it will appear to move at the same speed as say someone much closer to you walking by or something.

with that considered, how on earth can one possibly argue that something falling (viewed from an undetermined camera vantage point distance) "MUST be falling unhindered by the 70 floors below" and as a result it "MUST have been planned"


please try to dish out a counter, you cant youre dumb. sorry son.

[BustedS13]

http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/091409/vegetarian-conspiracy-theories.gif

[illvialuver]

I think it is funny how most of the people who are all Captain America Spec with the patriotism and think that Dubya actually gives a damn about every single person and would never do something that would kill 5000 of the 305 million people who live in the U.S.A .( and that number is as of Feb 2009 NOT 9-11-01, meaning it was less then) Hell NO he doesn't. Just think about that percentage for a minute. If someone put you in a room and then put 305 million dollars in cash in front of you and said see all this money? Do you want to make lots more? It will cost you a little though. Then you close your eyes and they remove 5000 dollars. When you opened them do you think you would notice that 5000 was missing? NO. IMPOSSIBLE, you would not notice. We are all nothing but ants to the people who run the government. You put people in power, and give them damn near absolute power, and they will be corupte. Power corupts. Fact.

I do not think that mentioning all the things that don't add up in this crime against the American people is un-American. The people who have died in 911 and since then have not died in vein. Especially not the soldiers. Because soldiers follow orders. Bottom line. So it is not as if they chose everything in there life or had control of where they were at and at what moment. They were where they were commanded to be, and did what they were told to do. They did that because that is was and is there job. Shit rolls down hill, and the people at the top make all the rules, and the most money. War is always about profit.

Another thing to ask yourself, is this, why don't animals have wars with other animals? I don't see one group of Chimps trying to take over all of Africa, or one school of Fish trying to conquer the ocean. Because animals do not have profit just survival, they don't have money, or states or contries, and they don't feel the need to control other species, or areas larger then what they have. It is all greed.

I have seen a bunch of documentaries about this, including the stuff on the mentioned videos and the information mentioned in the zeitgeist movie, ( which explains much more about the demolition, and the fact that there was not any video footage of the pentagon even thought major buildings surounding the pentagon with video footage had the footage confiscate minutes after it happened. and the lack of plane debris at the pentagon and the one that crashed in the middle of no where. The cut marks on the structural suport of the towers to impliment the pancake effect. Ever wonder why the buildings did not fall over like trees and damage more of the city? Plus tons of more shit about it, like how firemen(heros like all the rest of the soldiers)heard explosives in the basement more then the two caused from the planes crashing, and they were in sequence and right before the towers fell. Or the clean up crews that said the biggest peace of debris they found was a piece of a dial pad, and everything else was burn and ash and dust, but they found a passport of a middle eastern man, and said that it came from a fuckin plane and belonged to one of the terrorist and magically it survived the building fallin but nothing else did? That does not seem like planted evidence? Like a setup? To make it better the said man lived in like Minesota! He had to come forward because he saw them blame him on the news! The fact the Bush and Chaney would not show up for individual interviews by the press in questioning about there being something fishy. They showed up together, and they publically admit it was to save time and keep there story straight. But the American Public paid all of this 2 seconds of attention because they were and still are scarred out of there minds by the brainwashing of the words terror and terrorist being said ever 5 seconds on news and tv dramas. If they had nothing to hide they would simply answer all this bullshit. And when something sounds too good to be true it is because it is.

You ever wonder why when you watch or read anything and the main character says ...
"this is easy, too easy" what does that mean.............. its a SET UP! a trap! You should hear the norad tapes, norad you may ask? yes look it up, Chaney was in control of it, and conveinently had them running test for terrorist hi jackings in all corners of the us, as far away from the wtc as possible and when the real calls came in for the hi jacked palins they did not know if it was training or irl. There is so much shit, that weighs against buying into this terrorist shit.

I am proud that out country has people who work in the military. Who have jobs that put themselves in the line of fire or at risk for death. For our rights, for our liberties. I appreciate you all. I respect you all, but in the end your following orders in a very long chain of command, and your far from the top.

I do not think any soldier died in vein or ever really does( unless its friendly fire) and even then they dont die in vein, they are doing their job, following orders. Every military member knows the risk when they go to active duty. 5000 is alot. I think 1 person would be enough. Thank you to all of you who are members of the military for your willingness to sacrifice the ultimate sacritice.

I wonder if our last president ever read this quote.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots.-Thomas Jefferson

I could talk about this all day but obviously I am one of the few in here who disagrees with the the majority.( whom just happen to have miliatary back grounds, so I understand why this is so personal to them) So this is all I am going to say about it, the information is outthere, you can use logic and physics and actual proof and reasoning if you want to think for youself. Or you can just accept things for what they are at face value, for what you told they are, even if they don'y add up.

[BustedS13]

I think it is funny how most of the people who are all Captain America Spec with the patriotism and think that Dubya actually gives a damn about every single person and would never do something that would kill 5000 of the 305 million people who live in the U.S.A .( and that number is as of Feb 2009 NOT 9-11-01, meaning it was less then) Hell NO he doesn't. Just think about that percentage for a minute. If someone put you in a room and then put 305 million dollars in cash in front of you and said see all this money? Do you want to make lots more? It will cost you a little though. Then you close your eyes and they remove 5000 dollars. When you opened them do you think you would notice that 5000 was missing? NO. IMPOSSIBLE, you would not notice. We are all nothing but ants to the people who run the government. You put people in power, and give them damn near absolute power, and they will be corupte. Power corupts. Fact.

I do not think that mentioning all the things that don't add up in this crime against the American people is un-American. The people who have died in 911 and since then have not died in vein. Especially not the soldiers. Because soldiers follow orders. Bottom line. So it is not as if they chose everything in there life or had control of where they were at and at what moment. They were where they were commanded to be, and did what they were told to do. They did that because that is was and is there job. Shit rolls down hill, and the people at the top make all the rules, and the most money. War is always about profit.

Another thing to ask yourself, is this, why don't animals have wars with other animals? I don't see one group of Chimps trying to take over all of Africa, or one school of Fish trying to conquer the ocean. Because animals do not have profit just survival, they don't have money, or states or contries, and they don't feel the need to control other species, or areas larger then what they have. It is all greed.

I have seen a bunch of documentaries about this, including the stuff on the mentioned videos and the information mentioned in the zeitgeist movie, ( which explains much more about the demolition, and the fact that there was not any video footage of the pentagon even thought major buildings surounding the pentagon with video footage had the footage confiscate minutes after it happened. and the lack of plane debris at the pentagon and the one that crashed in the middle of no where. The cut marks on the structural suport of the towers to impliment the pancake effect. Ever wonder why the buildings did not fall over like trees and damage more of the city? Plus tons of more shit about it, like how firemen(heros like all the rest of the soldiers)heard explosives in the basement more then the two caused from the planes crashing, and they were in sequence and right before the towers fell. Or the clean up crews that said the biggest peace of debris they found was a piece of a dial pad, and everything else was burn and ash and dust, but they found a passport of a middle eastern man, and said that it came from a fuckin plane and belonged to one of the terrorist and magically it survived the building fallin but nothing else did? That does not seem like planted evidence? Like a setup? To make it better the said man lived in like Minesota! He had to come forward because he saw them blame him on the news! The fact the Bush and Chaney would not show up for individual interviews by the press in questioning about there being something fishy. They showed up together, and they publically admit it was to save time and keep there story straight. But the American Public paid all of this 2 seconds of attention because they were and still are scarred out of there minds by the brainwashing of the words terror and terrorist being said ever 5 seconds on news and tv dramas. If they had nothing to hide they would simply answer all this bullshit. And when something sounds too good to be true it is because it is.

You ever wonder why when you watch or read anything and the main character says ...
"this is easy, too easy" what does that mean.............. its a SET UP! a trap! You should hear the norad tapes, norad you may ask? yes look it up, Chaney was in control of it, and conveinently had them running test for terrorist hi jackings in all corners of the us, as far away from the wtc as possible and when the real calls came in for the hi jacked palins they did not know if it was training or irl. There is so much shit, that weighs against buying into this terrorist shit.

I am proud that out country has people who work in the military. Who have jobs that put themselves in the line of fire or at risk for death. For our rights, for our liberties. I appreciate you all. I respect you all, but in the end your following orders in a very long chain of command, and your far from the top.

I do not think any soldier died in vein or ever really does( unless its friendly fire) and even then they dont die in vein, they are doing their job, following orders. Every military member knows the risk when they go to active duty. 5000 is alot. I think 1 person would be enough. Thank you to all of you who are members of the military for your willingness to sacrifice the ultimate sacritice.

I wonder if our last president ever read this quote.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots.-Thomas Jefferson

I could talk about this all day but obviously I am one of the few in here who disagrees with the the majority.( whom just happen to have miliatary back grounds, so I understand why this is so personal to them) So this is all I am going to say about it, the information is outthere, you can use logic and physics and actual proof and reasoning if you want to think for youself. Or you can just accept things for what they are at face value, for what you told they are, even if they don'y add up.

tl;dr
dtom

(don't tread on me)

[irax]

I believe... that if the towers were to fall due to damage and impact it would of fell towards one side and not straight down. I know this might be seen as a bad example but the Eiffel tower falling in G.I. Joe a fictional movie is more realistic on how a building would collapse when the structural support on one side was significantly damaged.

The fact remains though, that we will never know what REALLY happened. Ultimately the average American Citizen is truly the victim of a heinous crime.



+4trillion imaginary rep for illvialuver

[Matej]

9/11 never happened.
It was a ploy to convince the American population that a war was necessary, just like the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
New York is a fictional city originally created by Hollywood, which in turn is funded by the government to keep Americans distracted and make them dumb.
Has anyone ever actually been to New York in person?
That's what I thought.

[irax]

Have you ever seen demolition in person? or a structural collapse?

Ohh.. that's what I though.

[BustedS13]

in reality, all states aside from California and Arizona (and hawaii, BIG ISLAND ONLY!) are all cgi
just cali puliln' the wool over ur eyes sheeple
i'm a hologram

[Matej]

Have you ever seen demolition in person? or a structural collapse?

Ohh.. that's what I though.
Bro, here I am on your side and you shoot me down.
No but seriously, I did think that the towers falling down in the first place and on top of that falling down absolutely perfectly causing minimal damage to all buildings around was definitely a huge 'coincidence' as soon as I saw it happen.
Don't want to be labeled a conspiracy theorist though. :(


Still upset about Gulf of Tonkin incident being made up. Kind of wish the government didn't lie for 30 years.
Maybe in 30 years from 9/11 they will explain what happened in detail.
Only to be totally downplayed by the media for some reason.

[irax]

one of the problems with our society is that if you question something that the media presents you get labeled crazy. Often times people are called unpatriotic for even questioning what is going on or opposing anything that is in popular concencous(sp?). 30 years ago the government said it was ok to turn in your neighbors to the authorities if they talk about communism. now they tell you anyone that questions the president is crazy.

[illvialuver]

I just wanted to check on the direction of this thread, and proof read my last post because it was really late and I typed a lot. Anyway, you mentioned the gulf of tonkin, but what about the u.s selling fuel to the Germens for their tanks before we entered the war? If the governments past is littered with lies and conspiracy why is it so crazy to think 911 was such? It is not, it is just plain logical.

It's as if some people think learning from the past is a bad thing.

[atutt]

Since day one I've always thought that it was an inside job.

My grandfather (who was an iron worker, which sparked my interest in metal work and how I became a welder), pointed out that how they fell, was like a demolition. And, that structural steel shouldn't fail due to fire.

There are too many discrepancies with the terrorist theory. In my eyes anyways.

I thought it was interesting how the 9/11 Commission asked the president and the douche bag to appear separate and under oath. When asked to be interviewed about 9/11. However.
They're were not under oath.
They appeared together.
No families members present.
No transcript.
No official statements.
Why no transcript though?

Also, WTC 7 is a pretty interesting topic too. So is the fact that the gov't refuses to release the footage of the "plane" hitting the Pentagon. Why not release them if it was in fact what they claim?

[lolatclint]

who gives a fuck

[atutt]

^I would hope everyone cares. Whether it was a terrorist attack or an inside job.

[illvialuver]

for some people it is much easier to turn the blind eye. helps them sleep at night.
like the old saying goes ignorance is bliss.

[atutt]

^I guess that's true.
Even though I'm Canadian. I think about the events of 9/11 all the time.
No one may like the fact that I think it was an inside job. But, I'd rather be spoon fed everything by the main stream media. It's all pre-filtered for your viewing pleasure anyways.

[ESmorz]

So is the fact that the gov't refuses to release the footage of the "plane" hitting the Pentagon. Why not release them if it was in fact what they claim?

They need to wait till they have better CGI than the plane crash in Knowing... duh.

[SochBAT]

^^
Or Conair.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/8558/conair.jpg

The movie, not the hair dryer.

Welcome to Mullet City.

[ESmorz]

Nicholas Cage is my long lost brother.

[Not You]

The names on that poster are not even over the actors, weird lol.
PS. Ving Rhames loves to crochet napkins

[illvialuver]

They do that alot on movie poster and covers and I hate it, how lazy is that? Can't even put the correct name over the actor.

[Matej]

http://i34.tinypic.com/2nn1bo.jpg

This bro probably gets beat up every time he wears shorts, haha.

[yota man]

Picture of a terrible tattoo

Wow no matter what any of our opinions are I think we can all agree that this is the most dis-tasteful tattoo ever.

[SexPanda]

Wow no matter what any of our opinions are I think we can all agree that this is the most dis-tasteful tattoo ever.

I'd have to kick that guys ass if I ever met him... So yeah I think we can agree on that.

[illvialuver]

the worst part about that tattoo, is the people jumping out of the building actually happened, and there was plenty of footage, of it, especially on the spanish news channels, they showed EVERYTHING. Fuck censorship.

Anyway, those videos made my stomach almost come out of my mouth. So terrible.

[ScottMan]

I read through this thread and was very interested but saw no need to respond because I don't think there is any way to convince either side to "switch" and admit they were wrong. I looked under my user-name and saw "You last visited: 09-11-2009" and thought that was a pretty good sign that I should post.

I'm fairly well educated, fairly sensical, and not at all prone to flights of fancy. I'll listen to the conspiracy theories with just as much attention as the government reports. That said, there are a few things that could go either way, like the metal melting. There are also things that to me, are so off in the realm of common sense that they make the conspiracy theorists very easy to dismiss, and I wish those people would shut up. They're giving the smart ones a bad rap.

First, I almost entirely reject immediate eyewitness accounts. Not because people are stupid, but because they are almost always wildly inaccurate and ridiculous. I'm not saying I don't start believing until the government spins things, I just mean in the few traumatic events I've been in, I had no clue what the heck happened, but I was more than happy to share my flawed account only to realize I was pretty wrong later. In many scenes of Loose Change, people like Wolf Blitzer or other trusted newspersons are shown or heard talking about what they see or don't see. I realize this is a great time to say "Wolf doesn't see wreckage, game, set, match." But there are pictures to the contrary.

Second, the idea that the buildings collapsed far too "perfectly" and pancaked indicating they were a controlled demolition. Tell me, within the realm of common sense, how this helps the conspiracy theorists? So what I'm hearing is, this entire thing, one of the worst events in our history, was perpetrated by a select group of people who are basically all-powerful and who either saw money, power, oil, or war (or something else) as such a motivator that they would go to EXTREME lengths to kill 5000 people, crash jumbo-jets, cause nationwide panic, war, a stock market failure, insurance and reinsurance companies in default, and the destruction of two of the most important buildings in the U.S. both in symbol and in finance, but then care an awful lot that they might fall like a tree and strike other buildings? Really?! Honestly, who cares at that point?

Third, in Loose Change, Avery talks about the Pentagon plane and, while showing a picture of the mangled Pentagon with some sort of wreckage all over, says "indeed, from these pictures it seems like there's absolutely no trace of a fully loaded Boeing 757." As he says that, they pan out slowly from center then oddly faster. If you look at the picture, to the right you see what appears to very closely resemble the huge landing gear of a plane. Now, I agree and disagree with other points from both sides, but really, why say "no trace of a fully loaded Boeing 757" then show a picture with landing gear. Surely I'm missing something. Were these from another aircraft?

There are too many discrepancies with the terrorist theory. In my eyes anyways.

I thought it was interesting how the 9/11 Commission asked the president and the douche bag to appear separate and under oath. When asked to be interviewed about 9/11. However.
They're were not under oath.
They appeared together.
No families members present.
No transcript.
No official statements.
Why no transcript though?

This is another something I see as RIDICULOUS and makes conspiracy theorists rather easy to dismiss. So again, speaking in common sense, you think those evil people that I mentioned above, who went to great lengths to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, kill innocent people, manage to silence anyone with real evidence to the contrary, etc. would ACTUALLY care if they were under oath or had other people there? Really?! That's the big evidence? Of course they wouldn't. Murder is worse than lying under oath methinks.

Also, WTC 7 is a pretty interesting topic too. So is the fact that the gov't refuses to release the footage of the "plane" hitting the Pentagon. Why not release them if it was in fact what they claim?
Again, the government hardly ever releases any footage like this until long after. Heck, it took how long to get the Nixon tapes out? They couldn't care less whether a few people believe it's a conspiracy I'd bet. And more importantly, if it is indeed a conspiracy, someone would sneak the tapes out, or say something, or they'd fabricate tapes.

My problem with all of this is that many of the conspiracy theorists want us to believe that some all-powerful group is running the show of 9/11. They had people cutting fail grooves in beams, thermite loaded onto planes, fabricating tapes and phone calls of loved-ones heading to certain death, destroyed, again, the two most important buildings in the U.S., and many more unspeakable acts...yet they screw up a few things here or there to drop hints for the great skeptics of the land.

What would've been MUCH easier would be to just hit the twin towers with an ACTUAL missile. Fire off an ICBM with Iraq on the side if we want to go to war with them to secure oil so badly. Smuggle a couple of suitcase "dirty" bombs in with known terrorists still handcuffed to them. There are so many ways to handle this that would've been cleaner, easier, required much, much less planning, and would've probably been met with much less skepticism.

Serious questions/answers?

[Chrischeezer]

I'm here i saw the whole thing go down.
two towers fell, worst thing i have ever seen in my life...then for absolutely no reason at all... 7 world trade collapsed
this is basically what i saw....
YouTube - wtc 7 collapse (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A)
the 2 towers fell in the same fashion, they were just so massive it looked slower.
I saw beams of metal sliced in half.
I saw with my own eyes, pools of metal still hot days later, every time the fire fighters sprayed em it would smoke an extraordinary amount

The evidence is irrefutable...

[Walperstyle]

I love how the internet voices opinions without fact. And what people believe so strong is fact is actually an opinion.

Truth is Opinionated

Let me go off on one of my tangents again. Lets look at the GTR vs Z06 threads and videos and comments all over the internet. Now, how many people that commented have actually driven either or both? Not many.

That being said, apply that same question to anything else you see on the internet, tv etc. Unless you were there, or saw something with your own eyes,and you realize many dont know shit. Just another 3rd party not involved.

Its that simple. I wish more people on the internet would be less opinionated about things being Truth is now dictated by these opinions. What the world should really be doing is not letting acts of terrorism get to them, fake or real. I met an investor that made millions after 911 because on that tuesday he daytraded all his money into metal detectors and airport security related stocks.

Make the most of every situation, who cares if its real or not.(like a boy in a blimp) Cheers.