Fun, yet practical cars for under $20k (new daily needed)

[SuicidnS13]

Hey guys I am in the hunt for a different daily driver for the wife. I have a few requirements how ever.

Preference of RWD or AWD
4 Doors (2 kids in our household)
Auto or stick
Must be at or under $20k
Must be atleast a 2004 or newer (lower interest rate on financing)
Decent Aftermarket Support

So far we have on our list of cars:
Lexus IS300 5spd Manual 2004 on
Cadillac CTS-V (Found some higher mileage ones)
Dodge Charger RT
BMW 3xx series
Subaru Impreza WRX 04-07
EVO's 04-07

Any other cars that are fun baby haulers/grocery getters you guys can think of adding to this list? Our final choice will come down to overall monthly cost such as insurance and gas cost.

[SexPanda]

Preference of RWD or AWD
4 Doors (2 kids in our household)
Auto or stick
Must be at or under $20k
Must be atleast a 2004 or newer (lower interest rate on financing)
Decent Aftermarket Support

So far we have on our list of cars:
Lexus IS300 5spd Manual 2004 on
Cadillac CTS-V (Found some higher mileage ones)
Dodge Charger RT
BMW 3xx series
Subaru Impreza WRX 04-07
EVO's 04-07


That about sums it up man lol.

Saab 9-2x Aero as well. Its more or less a WRX wagon... but its a Saab lol.

[jorge1190]

If i were you i would consider a Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT. My dad has the wagon in 5 speed and its a really nice car and they have pretty good aftermarket stuff.

[SuicidnS13]

Is that the same 2.5t in the wrx's?

[zenki.life]

i would throw out the caddy idea. always hated them when compared to others. a subaru, be it legacy or wrx is a great option

[jorge1190]

[QUOTE=SuicidnS13;2997068]Is that the same 2.5t in the wrx's?[/QUO

yeah its the same as the new ones but i think it would be more family friendly than a WRX

[SuicidnS13]

i would throw out the caddy idea. always hated them when compared to others. a subaru, be it legacy or wrx is a great option

LS6 motor, brembos and insane aftermarket support. Plus it is one of the wifes choices. So definately cant take it out of the picture. She will be switching over from an RB powered S13 Vert. So it has to be fun to drive, yet practical. The subaru legacy sort of reminds us of a ford fusion from the rear. Insurance costs on Subaru are also 20-40% higher than all the other cars including the EVO.

[zenki.life]

haha. what the wife want the wife will get......

[lflkajfj12123]

wrx hands down

[BustedS13]

Saab 9-3 or 9-5
i love these cars

http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/2803-saab-9-3-aero-sport-sedan-3.jpg

[blackrms13]

Legacy GT
WRX Wagon

and maybe a TSX, it is FWD, but it gets good MPG and its 6 speed manual!

[SexPanda]

^^QFT

Saab, despite being fucked over by GM, makes a good car. They also make the AT4 rocket launcher for the military lol.

And there is always the G35, lets not forget about that beaut.

[BustedS13]

ehhhhhhh g35x is pretty unattractive :/ coupe is hot, of course, but... the four door kills it :/ :/ :/

you could get like an '06 TL. those are nice. or a TSX. or an RL.

http://www.corsportusa.com/store/catalog/images/AcuraTL.JPG.jpg

[SuicidnS13]

ehhhhhhh g35x is pretty unattractive :/ coupe is hot, of course, but... the four door kills it :/ :/ :/

you could get like an '06 TL. those are nice. or a TSX. or an RL.

http://www.corsportusa.com/store/catalog/images/AcuraTL.JPG.jpg

All your final choices are GAY wheel Drive, my wife would drive none of them, and I would burn them. G35 was previously thought of, just so common and parts are expensive for not much performance gain.

[silviaguy240]

RL's come in awd.

[BustedS13]

yeah, put your kids in a car with a woman driving rear wheel drive, then. douchebag.

how old are you?

[SuicidnS13]

Im almost 30 my friend. Sorry to come off the way I did. But I did put no FWD cars allowed in the list. And my wife drifts her RB powered s13 vert. She has also run 11's in our previous 03 Cobra. So I have no doubt that she can control a weeny little RWD 4 door car. You do know that woman have faster overall reflexes than men dont you? They just get nervous at the limit and cammer in fear. Not too mention over-analyze everything...

BTW how old are you?

[SuicidnS13]

RL's come in awd.

I know but also over $20k. With the lack of job security in this economy Im not trying to add a high monthly payment to our allready large amount of bills.

[OptionZero]

for a daily, why the hell does it matter whether its FWD or not?

does your "wife" dRFTO to the supermarket?

[Agamemnon]

yeah, put your kids in a car with a woman driving rear wheel drive, then. douchebag.

how old are you?

You make an overly sexist comment and then question someones else's maturity?

[Matej]

Let's look the other way and ignore the fact that women generally tend to have a much higher accident rate. Because acknowledging it is sexist.

[SexPanda]

clearly this mans wife understands that FWD is completely homosexual.

Its a preference. Some people would never drive a Ford truck, some people would never drive a chrysler car. His wife wants a RWD or AWD sporty (sporty, not sports) car. Clearly she has more experience than most of us when it comes to controlling a car, and she's used to high horsepower delivered to the rear wheels. He just wants some ideas as to whats good.

And how many women do you see driving BMW's? Or Chrysler 300s?

[silviaguy240]

i see shit tons of women in 5 series more than men actually. then 3 series then 7.

but why not hover around the early 2000 mark? im not sure what your credit is, but dont finance through a dealer. do your own through your bank or a credit union. i got a 6.75% interest rate on a 5 year loan at 20 years old (no co signer) with about a years worth of credit from a $500 limit credit card, it was 99 silverado with 125k on it. so dont tell me you're worried about the interest rate. because A. going through a dealer i couldnt have financed that or if i did it would have probably been more than double that interest rate.

[Agamemnon]

Let's look the other way and ignore the fact that women generally tend to have a much higher accident rate. Because acknowledging it is sexist.

Any stats on this?

[!Zar!]

You guys remember almost all cars that cars now-a-days come stock with traction control...

[J-Style]

You can't go wrong with a WRX wagon. Confortable, quick and roomy, perfect for the daily-mobile!

[RiversideS13]

acura TL is a very nice car with nice interior and comfortable driving. I think it is wrong to think it is gay just because it is fwd. Maybe it will save your wife from spin out and fwd car insurance are cheaper and more fuel efficient than rwd

for your list, I think IS300 and wrx are good, but the rear passenger space is a bit small.

but ultimately i think you can buy a brand new camry LE out of door for $18k. it is not fun to drive but it probably the best daily drive car for a family. It is safe, fuel efficient, practical, and great value.

[sidewaysil80]

is300 FTW, thats what i picked up for a daily and seriously...i LOVE it. its myself my wife and we have a little one as well. PLENTY of space for her giant car seat in the back, great trunk space. imo great gas mileage and the simple fact that its a luxury car that comes with some GREAT features (granted i have the sport design model) such as heated seats, power seats, a million airbags, sweet two tone black and white leather interior, etc. etc. insurance doesnt rape you and also, their is aftermarket support but enough to keep it a daily if you know what i mean. like with a wrx i feel it would slowly turn away from a daily into another project. the is300 unless you get into forced induction you can do simple n/a bolt ons and simple suspension and call it a day...just search my user name and check the old for sale thread for pics (obviously i kept it and i'm on a govt computer so no photobucket)

[BustedS13]

You make an overly sexist comment and then question someones else's maturity?

yes, i do. women don't give a shit about cars, and can't drive. clearly, this guy's kids were accidents, he had to marry some floozy to make an honest woman out of her, and now with winter coming, he's trying to erase his mistakes.

[SexPanda]

yes, i do. women don't give a shit about cars, and can't drive. clearly, this guy's kids were accidents, he had to marry some floozy to make an honest woman out of her, and now with winter coming, he's trying to erase his mistakes.

rofl ok that is kinda funny, admit it. :D

[fliprayzin240sx]

I know but also over $20k. With the lack of job security in this economy Im not trying to add a high monthly payment to our allready large amount of bills.

If your worried about that, then why dont you get something more practical that doesnt guzzle gas and cheap on insurance too?!?! Personally, I'd go with a Mazda 6 for a daily car. Why does it have to be RWD or AWD? Its a daily, gets you to point A to point B, has 4 doors, decent on gas and not too expensive to insure.

[mkiv98]

i am also doing the mature thing and selling my 240 to get a dd, probably going with IS300. not the best in any category, but seems to be everything i need in a DD without being bland.

I'm under 25 so definitely not down with that wrx insurance, or I'd probably get an 06 WRX instead.

[SuicidnS13]

yes, i do. women don't give a shit about cars, and can't drive. clearly, this guy's kids were accidents, he had to marry some floozy to make an honest woman out of her, and now with winter coming, he's trying to erase his mistakes.

LMAO - wow...

Back on topic. The car isnt going to actually be driven every day. Maybe 2-3 times per week. But will be left mostly alone except for wheels, suspension and simple bolt ons. Gas prices arent exactly an issue to us. The car also has to be fun for me to take out once in a while. So far our finals are an EVO IX, BMW 330, and the Subaru Legacy GT. All of them can be found in a manual pretty easily and mods are actually worthwile for them. Pricing is pretty consistent with all three as well. All of them with decent mileage can be found for right around 20k.

[fliprayzin240sx]

If its between those 3...practicality (gas mileage, insurance) in my mind goes to the Legacy. Fun factor would be EVO. If you want a civil, comfy ride, then 330.

[VROOOM]

you might be able to find a slightly used Pontiac G8 for around 20k. that would be cool.

[krazyfil]

idk why everyone is leaving out the Audi... seriously... get an s4.. 6 speed or tiptronic, legendary quattro awd, fast lil shits too... and look they can all be just as pretty haha

http://www.cargurus.com/images/2009/06/17/11/29/2007-audi-s4-pic-30446.png

^^^^ 2004 s4

[SuicidnS13]

you might be able to find a slightly used Pontiac G8 for around 20k. that would be cool.

All the G8 GT's we find are in the mid 20's still. An awesome car, too bad pontiac had to bite the dust soo fast. And the Audi's, well we've had VW's in the past and all of them are plauged with electrical gremlins. We had a jetta 1.8t and a bettle 1.8t both brand new and all had issues early on. My friends audi's were the same way.

[krazyfil]

well dont get 08 09 ive been tlaking to the audi guy there and he said they have tons of recalls... but he said the best ones are the b7 model a4 (2005.5-2008) and the b5 model a4 (1996-2001) in terms of reliability and comfort... so u should go talk to audi dealer honestly... maybe im biased cuz i own an audi and im german but still... verrry nice cars regardless what issues they may or may not have

[garagelu]

I've been looking for a new daily too. Check out the g35 sedan. Once you drop them and put some wheels on it, it looks sick. I really want a fx35 too. I like to stay in the nissan family.

[Manuelitoohno]

evo obviously


u want it under 20k?

get a used evo you might even find an IX for 20k if your lucky.


best 4 door cars ever.

everyone here likes subaru's because everyone here is broke and their friends are too and they know someone with a cheap wrx (since wrx is what they can settle for since they are kinda close to an sti which they wish they had) since they cant afford the sti and think subaru is the shit.


and no one has a lancer's since they arent the same thing or close to being evo's then many people dont know or have never driven an evo.


get an evo

[SexPanda]

Wow, dude. Your a douchebag. I just want you to know that.

06 WRX- 15,000. Cheaper to insure. Better gas mileage. Better looks. Higher overall quality of build and materials.

[krazyfil]

evo obviously


u want it under 20k?

get a used evo you might even find an IX for 20k if your lucky.


best 4 door cars ever.

everyone here likes subaru's because everyone here is broke and their friends are too and they know someone with a cheap wrx (since wrx is what they can settle for since they are kinda close to an sti which they wish they had) since they cant afford the sti and think subaru is the shit.


and no one has a lancer's since they arent the same thing or close to being evo's then many people dont know or have never driven an evo.


get an evo

wow... u really are a D bag.. best four door ever? lol... well just comparing releases in america not jdm crap...

2009 Audi RS 6 Specifications
DrivetrainLayout-Front Engine, Quattro AWD
TransmissionPaddle-Shifted 6 Speed Tiptronic
Front BrakesEight Piston Ceramic Calipers, 420 mm DiskRear Brakes Six Piston Ceramic Calipers, 365 mm Disk
Engine-Engine Type-Direct Injection Twin Turbo V10
Displacement4,991 cc
Horsepower-580 hp @ 6250 rpm
Torque-479.42 lb-ft. @ 1500 rpm
Exterior-Wheels 9.5J x 20-inch
Performance-0-100 km/h (0-62 mph)4.5 seconds<<<<< im pretty sure that shits on the evo

oor how about Porsche Panamera, or BMW m5, Lexus isF, the NEW cadillac cts-V... there are a LOT of cars better than the ricer ass evo.. pull out your box of uncle bens out ur butt and grow up and learn to play with the big boys

[dahveed]

^^^ i think you're forgetting the whole 20K budget thing dude

[Manuelitoohno]

wow... u really are a D bag.. best four door ever? lol... well just comparing releases in america not jdm crap...

2009 Audi RS 6 Specifications
DrivetrainLayout-Front Engine, Quattro AWD
TransmissionPaddle-Shifted 6 Speed Tiptronic
Front BrakesEight Piston Ceramic Calipers, 420 mm DiskRear Brakes Six Piston Ceramic Calipers, 365 mm Disk
Engine-Engine Type-Direct Injection Twin Turbo V10
Displacement4,991 cc
Horsepower-580 hp @ 6250 rpm
Torque-479.42 lb-ft. @ 1500 rpm
Exterior-Wheels 9.5J x 20-inch
Performance-0-100 km/h (0-62 mph)4.5 seconds<<<<< im pretty sure that shits on the evo

oor how about Porsche Panamera, or BMW m5, Lexus isF, the NEW cadillac cts-V... there are a LOT of cars better than the ricer ass evo.. pull out your box of uncle bens out ur butt and grow up and learn to play with the big boys

Bro first of all what im about to say has in no way shape or form intended to offend you.


with that said let me say that.

A = point is that unless you wanna spend less then 36 grand an evo is a beast.

now i doubt you and me and that guy are ready RIGHT NOW to buy those cars you mentioned. Credit wise, money wise, and what ever factor that currently affects you (unless you have no money problems no credit problems. in that case you would be on a ferrari owners club/forum not in zilvia.

i know the cts-v is a beast. i personally have rode in one it was amazing :boink:

i know the cts-v is a beast. i personally have rode in one it was amazing :boink:

and the m5 is pure sex. or even an M3.

but that leads point B





B = second of all. a 20 - 24k evo ix. would def outperform any car worth what it is.

the sti and evo are great cars that outperform cars in their price category and beyond that.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f141/Bam-0/evo.jpg

ferrari killer evo ^^^ :yum:


and its all for around 22K or a lil less used.


now i wanna see a stock a4 beat that

(im sure you can but how much is the cost to mod a brand new a4? :s101:


compare that to how much will it cost to mod a nice clean evo?



personally sti's and evo's are amazing. each to their own.

i prefer evo's because of the reliability

a local evo is almost hitting 200,000 miles. the guy drives it like a race car even on streets. and its still going strong.

i dont know many sti's but the ride and feel of the car is sketchy in my opinion compared to any evo i drove (only 3 :( )



and my other point.



why you such an audi huge fanboy.

LOL you wish your car came even close to this car you posted LOL :cj:


http://www.cargurus.com/images/2009/06/17/11/29/2007-audi-s4-pic-30446.png

[SexPanda]

http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/g2/d/13520-1/1-75-50514-l-HiIs70DE2Gp8BNs1Uo6ZZQ.gif
yeah that pretty much sums up your arguement, BRO.

When you rebuild a 4g63t or two you can come back here and talk about the quality of mitsubishi products.

[BustedS13]

get those kids/wife dead, bro. get ur life back.

[randomxzero]

http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/g2/d/13520-1/1-75-50514-l-HiIs70DE2Gp8BNs1Uo6ZZQ.gif
yeah that pretty much sums up your arguement, BRO.

When you rebuild a 4g63t or two you can come back here and talk about the quality of mitsubishi products.

^^LOLz

Manuelitoohno
4g63t's reliable?? lol
first own one and then after tell us how you like it...

[WanganRunner]

If you CAN get a CTS-V, why would you get any other car mentioned in this thread?

You could be getting ~450rwhp in a CTS-V pretty easily and still get decent gas mileage.

And, unlike WRX's, the transmission won't break :-P

[sub9lulu]

And, unlike WRX's, the transmission won't break :-P

the diff is the one gonna go ....

[VROOOM]

the diff is the one gonna go ....

yup, the rear end in the CTS-V is crap. everything else is good though.

[krazyfil]

Bro first of all what im about to say has in no way shape or form intended to offend you.


with that said let me say that.

A = point is that unless you wanna spend less then 36 grand an evo is a beast.

now i doubt you and me and that guy are ready RIGHT NOW to buy those cars you mentioned. Credit wise, money wise, and what ever factor that currently affects you (unless you have no money problems no credit problems. in that case you would be on a ferrari owners club/forum not in zilvia.

i know the cts-v is a beast. i personally have rode in one it was amazing :boink:

i know the cts-v is a beast. i personally have rode in one it was amazing :boink:

and the m5 is pure sex. or even an M3.

but that leads point B





B = second of all. a 20 - 24k evo ix. would def outperform any car worth what it is.

the sti and evo are great cars that outperform cars in their price category and beyond that.



ferrari killer evo ^^^ :yum:


and its all for around 22K or a lil less used.


now i wanna see a stock a4 beat that

(im sure you can but how much is the cost to mod a brand new a4? :s101:


compare that to how much will it cost to mod a nice clean evo?



personally sti's and evo's are amazing. each to their own.

i prefer evo's because of the reliability

a local evo is almost hitting 200,000 miles. the guy drives it like a race car even on streets. and its still going strong.

i dont know many sti's but the ride and feel of the car is sketchy in my opinion compared to any evo i drove (only 3 :( )



and my other point.



why you such an audi huge fanboy.

LOL you wish your car came even close to this car you posted LOL :cj:




ok BRO... u said best four door car EVER... so if u were talking about under a certain price then say it... and its not a "huge audi fanboy" or whatever u said.. its jsut i appreciate great cars... hence why i mentioned the other cars as well... but i like the looks and lines on the audi compared to other vehicles... BRO

[stinky_180]

ok BRO... u said best four door car EVER... so if u were talking about under a certain price then say it... BRO

BRO, read the title, BRO

[S14_Kouki]

most deff the evo or bmw all tho parts for bmw's r expensive.

[!Zar!]

Parts are only expensive if you don't know where to look.

[ronmcdon]

Id be pleased with a IS300 from the aforementioned list.
It's failry reliable, affordable parts, cheap to insure, gas friendly.
power is decent enough and it handles good.
gas might not be too painful now, but it is going UP steadily.

remember, its for the wife & kids.
something like an evo/wrx would be overkill and not exactly cheap with ins & gas.
bmw (as would anything german) would be expensive to repair & parts are costly.

IS300 are cheap too.
I was looking at some and there are some under 100k mi for well under $10k.
iirc, 2JZ swaps aren't too difficult either.

generally I don't care for Lexus, but the IS300 they did a good job with it imo.

[!Zar!]

I hate my.is

That forum is reason enough not to buy an IS.

[SuicidnS13]

Id be pleased with a IS300 from the aforementioned list.
It's failry reliable, affordable parts, cheap to insure, gas friendly.
power is decent enough and it handles good.
gas might not be too painful now, but it is going UP steadily.

remember, its for the wife & kids.
something like an evo/wrx would be overkill and not exactly cheap with ins & gas.
bmw (as would anything german) would be expensive to repair & parts are costly.

IS300 are cheap too.
I was looking at some and there are some under 100k mi for well under $10k.
iirc, 2JZ swaps aren't too difficult either.

generally I don't care for Lexus, but the IS300 they did a good job with it imo.

If you knew my wife you would know that a stock EVO or STI would bore her in a few weeks. We both also have crotch rockets. She is a 110lb blue eyes blonde that can clutch a wheelie on an r6. We have friends with cars with over 1000hp. My family live and breathes speed. But I could mod an EVo to her likings for pretty cheap in comarison to alot of the other cars on the list. Especially in comparison to an IS or a CTS-V.

[RiversideS13]

i guess family car means that you can go street racing together with kids in the back seat? now i felt stupid i recommend to buy a brand new camry for 18k out of door lol.

anyway,
my classmate brought a 04 vw passat 1.8T and asked me today to help him fix his check engine light. after we ran the reader, there were 14 error codes. I never seen so many codes on a car!

[!Zar!]

That car isn't going to be smogged for a minute...

[ronmcdon]

If you knew my wife you would know that a stock EVO or STI would bore her in a few weeks. We both also have crotch rockets. She is a 110lb blue eyes blonde that can clutch a wheelie on an r6. We have friends with cars with over 1000hp. My family live and breathes speed. But I could mod an EVo to her likings for pretty cheap in comarison to alot of the other cars on the list. Especially in comparison to an IS or a CTS-V.

As you describe the scenario,
your SO seems like a thrill seeker.
she would prob get bored with potentially any car soon enough.
getting 'the best performance car' wouldn't am effective long term solution.
Seems to me that what type of car isn't so much the issue.

Id suggest you might want to take her to get kicks at the local road race track, (if you haven't already done so.)
Not sure how far you are to Pahrump, but Spring Mtn is a good technical course to begin.
AutoX would be a cheaper alternative, and a better place to begin but the thrills aren't quite the same as a road course.

The IS 300 fairly forgivable and capable stock w/ a good set of tires & pads.
It is a good car to learn RWD driving imo.
You will have a lot more fun driving the IS on the track than cruising in an evo on the boulevards.

Another point to consider.
If you're kids are sitting with the wife,
would you really trust her with a very fast car?
Even great drivers have accidents in the street, if they're reckless enough.
Practical issues aside, compromises are always made.
Truth be said, the IS 300 isn't such bad compromise.
If family and kids are involved, i would advise making a more choice.

Id recommend spending no more than 10k on an IS, get tires, pads, alignment, etc.
allocate 1k for driving events.
keep that 9-8k in the bank for a rainy day.

Writing this, I am tempted to go get an IS 300 myself.
Thankfully I'm already broke.

[randomxzero]

anyway,
my classmate brought a 04 vw passat 1.8T and asked me today to help him fix his check engine light. after we ran the reader, there were 14 error codes. I never seen so many codes on a car!

haha my old jetta pulled up 8 codes lol and the engine check light never came on lol

[WanganRunner]

German cars are just dandy, but they tend to be pigs, at least the modern ones.

A 2008 V8 S4 weighed almost 3900lbs, whereas an Evo IX MR weighed 3,285.

They're good at different things. German sedans have great high-speed stability and will be fantastic in environs like the Ring or Spa. Evos are designed to excel in tighter, lower-speed circumstances, in places like the Tsukuba infield or in Gymkhana.

This is why I don't care much for Ring times, as I don't live near many roads like that and the ability to remain stable on a 140mph banked sweeper is irrelevant to me.

The V8 S4 would do like 0-60 in like 5.3 seconds whereas an Evo IX MR will do it in about 4.5, which is a BIG difference given that the Audi also has AWD and thus few excuses, being much more expensive. It all comes down to weight.

I think the reliability factor is about a wash, neither is stellar but neither is a Land Rover product either.

If you want all the luxo stuff and the high-speed dynamics are important to you, there's no substitute for a Krautmobile. If you don't care about having leather everywhere and you're more inclined to be driving very tight roads/circuits quickly, buy an Evo.


But anyway, OP needs a CTS-V, lol. This is a daily, not a circuit car. CTS-V gets good mileage for what it is, it'll be cheap to fix, and you can fucking hoon around in it all day with an LS, a 6MT, RWD, and minimal traction nannies.

[turbo2nr]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3553/3664012991_9876bdb956_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2441/3664012877_92ec4a5c12_o.jpg

g35/37 4dr, done and done.

comfortable, not bad priced, can be quick (sh*t load of stuff for the vq) and looks sexy..

[murda-c]

You could fit two kids in the trunk of a corvette if you tried.

[ronmcdon]

German cars are just dandy, but they tend to be pigs, at least the modern ones.

A 2008 V8 S4 weighed almost 3900lbs, whereas an Evo IX MR weighed 3,285.

They're good at different things. German sedans have great high-speed stability and will be fantastic in environs like the Ring or Spa. Evos are designed to excel in tighter, lower-speed circumstances, in places like the Tsukuba infield or in Gymkhana.

This is why I don't care much for Ring times, as I don't live near many roads like that and the ability to remain stable on a 140mph banked sweeper is irrelevant to me.

The V8 S4 would do like 0-60 in like 5.3 seconds whereas an Evo IX MR will do it in about 4.5, which is a BIG difference given that the Audi also has AWD and thus few excuses, being much more expensive. It all comes down to weight.

I think the reliability factor is about a wash, neither is stellar but neither is a Land Rover product either.

If you want all the luxo stuff and the high-speed dynamics are important to you, there's no substitute for a Krautmobile. If you don't care about having leather everywhere and you're more inclined to be driving very tight roads/circuits quickly, buy an Evo.


But anyway, OP needs a CTS-V, lol. This is a daily, not a circuit car. CTS-V gets good mileage for what it is, it'll be cheap to fix, and you can fucking hoon around in it all day with an LS, a 6MT, RWD, and minimal traction nannies.

To be fair all modern cars are getting somewhat porky to some degree.
Even the current evo borders close to 3,600.

Not all modern German offerings are hefty either.
I think it depends on which model really, more than country of manufacture.
Porsche and BMW come to mind.

It's hard for me to see Audi as performance orientated company, aside from their halo R8.
Most of their lineup focuses on more luxury based daily drivers, or powerful touring cars.
It's not a bad company for what it is, but it's one of the last company I would choose if I wanted a track-ready, & track capable car.
You also figure for 33-40k for a new evo, nothing from germany can take on a road-race course, stock to stock.
It's more purpose built for overall performance.

FOR HATERS OF THE 1.8T - Oh and the 1.8t's are fairly durable.
I've owned, modded, & tracked a B5 Passat 1.8t (not the best choice, but whatever).
The KKK03 turbos certainly aren't the best out there, but it is durable, responsive, & gets the job done.
If I had the chance to buy a Mk3 Golf project, you can bet the 1.8t would be my swap of choice.

[!Zar!]

"stuff"

The reason the ring is so important is because it has all types of corners.

Complex sections as well as long and flat.

Why are we even talking about gymkhana?

When was the last time someone even giving a damn about spinning around some cones.

Sure, the modern euro cars are heavy, but they handle extremely well.

The benz I am driving feels just as nimble as my sti did.

Except everything it does feels more refined.

As for the audi vs mitsu thing, they both have awd so what's the argument making it sound like the audi had a traction advantage?

The audi is better suited for someone who wants to have a nice car as opposed to the evo that is every asian dudes invincible race car or something.

As for the audi's, it's true once you change the turbo's they are fine.

Why does everyone insist on comparing the evo to everything on the track?

Last SCCA Touring Car race I watched, there weren't any evos in contention. Not even a subaru.

One of you guys better find them and tell them they all need to switch over.

[WanganRunner]

Yeah, I wasn't "hating on" the 1.8t in particular, I think it's just fine.

The new Evo is indeed Porky, but that's why I was comparing the ~08 Evo vs. the ~08 S4. Besides, he's not considering an Evo X, he'd be looking at an VIII or a IX.


I think Bimmers are still fairly hefty, but admittedly not as bad as Audis. A 335i sedan is like 3,600lbs, which is 300 more than I think it should be, but not terminal. A very good platform.

The 1-series is absurd though. 3,400lbs for a car that small? That thing shouldn't weigh more than about 2,800lbs, IMO. Stupid car, just buy a 335i coupe.

I happen to really like modern Audis, actually. the A5/S5 is a sexy beast, and I'd rather have an R8 than just about anything else in the universe. I don't understand why the sedans have to be so heavy, but as a "do everything" compromise car, most Audis are really really good. They're never going to hustle around Tsukuba as well as an Evo though, buck for buck. They also aren't designed to, which is fine.






Why are we even talking about gymkhana?

I used Tsukuba as an example also, or any number of other very tight circuits with mostly low-speed corners and few straights where high-speed stability is irrelevant. Most Japanese sports cars (i.e. everything but GTR and NSX) are generally designed to excel in such an environment at the expense of performance in higher-speed environs.

Due to the recently-lifted 280hp "gentleman's agreement" and the general topography of Japan, it didn't make much sense for the JDM OEM's to be designing cars to take on courses like the Ring, Sarthe, or Fuji Speedway. S2000's and Evos are at their best when the corners are tightest with the least straight space in between, which is very very different from the environment wherein German cars are designed to excel (again due to the lack of any power constraints in Germany and the general topography there).


As for the audi vs mitsu thing, they both have awd so what's the argument making it sound like the audi had a traction advantage?

I wasn't saying the Audi had a traction advantage, I was saying they were both AWD and so they should be more or less on par, but there was more than a 1-second 0-60 difference. I was pointing out that the Evo did NOT have a traction advantage, not that the Audi DID have one.

The audi is better suited for someone who wants to have a nice car as opposed to the evo that is every asian dudes invincible race car or something.

Precisely, it's a compromise. The Evo is less of a compromise. They're both performance cars, but the Evo gives up a fair bit of comfort and bling to save weight and provide better performance in certain circumstances.

I'm not saying "Audi's suck", I'm saying that they're designed to do different things than an Evo is designed to do. A Porsche Panerama or an RS4 isn't objectively a "better car" than an Evo is, they're just designed to excel in different environments and designed to a different price point and demographic.



Last SCCA Touring Car race I watched, there weren't any evos in contention. Not even a subaru.

^^
I'd have to know what the constraints of the series are, and what circuit it was on.

[!Zar!]

Fuck.

That's what I forgot while I was at the dealership.

To ask what the m5 does around tsukuba.

Damn it.

[ronmcdon]

I was only directing the 1.8T to those who were dissing it in previous posts.
hence, 'FOR HATERS OF THE 1.8T'
my apologies for the confusion.

With weights though, it just becomes more and more difficult to make things lighter.
Governments demand new emissions, crash test, and who knows what other regulations.
Consumers demand more space, quieter ride, etc.

But yeah, the 1-series (and to some degree, also some Japanese cars) could have done better.

Compromise cars probably sell the best.
We can't all own more multiple cars, for different purposes.

[iLOVEmyS13]

to the OP, my friend just bought a 03 wrx wagon for $12k.
Very roomy, quick, sleek and gets the job done and more

He rally's his now, but shoot that just means you can get to work quicker.
plus wagons are just soo sex:bowdown:

[bboyswoosh87]

What about the suzuki sx4 crossover aka the swift.

The cost is 15,000 brand new.

"> (http://zilvia.net/f/%3Cobject%20width=)YouTube - Suzuki SX4 2008 WRC Rallye d'Italia-Sardegna (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGUldRct66s)

YouTube - Keiichi Tsuchiya - Toyota AE86 vs JCWR Suzuki Swift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRhK1TxDUyg)