Interest In A Proper STi/Evo Caliper Adapter Bracket?

[ManoNegra]

I have a set of STi Brembo calipers coming my way
and plan to make a nice set of brackets for myself
since I have the means to do so

I've made and sold a few sets of brackets to some members on the forum
made from measurements found on this well known thread (page 7):

http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/93748-check-out-my-new-big-brakes-anyone-else-do-yet.html

Those worked well but as stated in the thread, some grinding is usually required to clear some of the calipers features.
Also, there seems to be a slight difference in hole separation between Evo and STi calipers.

So the question I have is: Would you guys be interested in a proper set of
adapter brackets that would work for either caliper?

Features I have in mind:
- CMM data for perfect fitment
- CNCd 6061 Aluminum for lighter weight
- Hard anodized for ruggedness (would look baller aswell)
- Helicoil inserts to protect the threaded holes from repeated installs

All of this - R&D, design and manufacturing - would be done in house by a friend and myself.
That means the cost of these parts won't be astronomical and about the same as the typical brackets offered for sale go for.

Feel free to chime in with any questions/observations/concerns.

[ronmcdon]

I think there's certainly a market for something like that.
If you can offer this as some kind of set to make it a plug & play ordeal, that would be nice.
Complete with needed lines, hardware, maybe even pads, proportioning valve, etc.

Also wondering if you would need a larger or different type of brake proportioning valve.
Maybe even a larger brake booster.
From the previous thread, seems like some of the ppl were having brake modulation issues.

Good luck with your project, and pls keep us updated.

[chibo]

I'd be interested.

[S14_Kouki]

Evo/sti brake upgrade is a awesome idea. I dislike sliding calipers ie stock 240sx brakes. I upgraded to 300zx brakes (fixed calipers) and thats a big difference but if i had the chance to buy some evo/sti calipers and use them I wuld over then 300zx upgrade. Now my question how much more money are evo or sti brakes comparied to 300zx and whats exactly the size and weight difference?????

[kalypso123]

as long as the bracket isnt 800$

if its priced reasonably... people will love it.

[garagelu]

If they were made out of steel, I would buy them. If they were made out of aluminum, probably not.

[S14_Kouki]

Yes please dont make them out of aluminum, just becuase under hard braking I dont want to take the chance with something bending/braking. Well aluminum is very strong I just dont know about using aluminum brakets for your brakes. What are other companys using for material??

[florante rea]

aluminum will not work, steel is a better choice. as for the one design evo/sti it will not work, i have thought about it for a long time to make a similar concept. just make just one application for each calipers. just make it simple.

[ManoNegra]

I think there's certainly a market for something like that.
If you can offer this as some kind of set to make it a plug & play ordeal, that would be nice.
Complete with needed lines, hardware, maybe even pads, proportioning valve, etc.

Also wondering if you would need a larger or different type of brake proportioning valve.
Maybe even a larger brake booster.
From the previous thread, seems like some of the ppl were having brake modulation issues.

Good luck with your project, and pls keep us updated.

we wouldn't go this route because
most of those things are already available
- there are plenty of sources for lines
- everone has a different opinion on what pads they like
- adjustable proportioning valves exist and are pretty cheap but require a good amount
of work to implement.

also, aside from the proportioning valve, we don't make any of that
stuff in house
we would have to source lines, pads, etc
there really wouldn't be a clear benefit we could pass on

the problem people were/are having is from not doing a complete job
i.e: z32 bmc, front and rear calipers imo

Evo/sti brake upgrade is a awesome idea. I dislike sliding calipers ie stock 240sx brakes. I upgraded to 300zx brakes (fixed calipers) and thats a big difference but if i had the chance to buy some evo/sti calipers and use them I wuld over then 300zx upgrade. Now my question how much more money are evo or sti brakes comparied to 300zx and whats exactly the size and weight difference?????

Price varies but ~$500 for the calipers.
They show up here every once in a while... ebay... craigslist

as long as the bracket isnt 800$

if its priced reasonably... people will love it.

I don't want to quote prices since this thread is just a feeler for the moment
but it would be for the same that the brackets usually sell from
do a quick search on the For Sale forum to get an idea

[ManoNegra]

aluminum will not work, steel is a better choice. as for the one design evo/sti it will not work, i have thought about it for a long time to make a similar concept. just make just one application for each calipers. just make it simple.

What do you base that assumption on?
z32/Evo/STi calipers are aluminum, no one is complaining of them failing
rear z32 uprights are aluminum
we are a prototype machine shop and have done similar things for other applications without problems
yes, steel is stronger but not necessary for this application and not to mention heavier
if there's an engineering reason, then I'm open to hear it
even the hard anodizing is a bit on the overkill side

the only thing I'm concerned with is the threads for the bolts
it's easy to damage them if one isn't careful
hence the helicoils

[S14_Kouki]

Aluminum will work just fine for the application. But for what I was wonder under alot of stress will the aluminum brakets hold up to the same stress as steel brakets hard braking puts a hell of alot of heat into the break system. Yes z32 uprights are aluminum but thats a very big piece compared to a braket alot more material=stronger part we r not worryed about aluminum calipers failing what we are worryed about are aluminum brakets failing.

[K_style]

I think there is good market for that. . .

I already purchased one from florante rea (http://zilvia.net/f/members/florante-rea.html) before. . .

and will need another one . . set up is good..

awesome stuff

[ixfxi]

cool......... interesting

i recommend steel, i believe my stoptech adapters are steel as well.

[garagelu]

its not the actual aluminum body I am worried about. Its the aluminum threads that are more of a risk. Helicoil would help it but still not as strong as an all steel thread.

Look at all the big brake manufacturers. All their brackets are made of steel. Hmmm I wonder why? It is all about safety. And yes they are heavier but is it enough to disregard safety?

I've been running my own 6061 aluminum custom made sti brackets for about a year and a half now with not one problem. I have been wanting to copy the design with steel for a while but have not got around to it. Too much down time on the car but if I could buy some that were within a reasonable pirce, I would shell out the money pretty quick.

[Ali 556]

dunno about you guys,

I have a '95 S14 with Auto booster and EVO brakes Front AND rear (yes front AND rear).

I've made the brackets my self after a lot of trial and error ordeal. out of steel..About the lines STOCK Nissan lines are Direct bolt on to the EVO/STI setup...Along with Z32 BMC you will get crazy brakes that can stop you on a fucking dime...

Proper bleeding of the REAR brakes will get you a perfect balance of the brakes..hell on the track EVO brakes along with Ralliart TARMAC pads front and ENDLESS M-power pads rear...NO fade what so ever and GREAT balance the handling was controlled by my HKS coilovers.

It's not rocket science..it's a plate with some holes in it so i think a proper price of 100-150$ is perfect

[ManoNegra]

Aluminum will work just fine for the application. But for what I was wonder under alot of stress will the aluminum brakets hold up to the same stress as steel brakets hard braking puts a hell of alot of heat into the break system. Yes z32 uprights are aluminum but thats a very big piece compared to a braket alot more material=stronger part we r not worryed about aluminum calipers failing what we are worryed about are aluminum brakets failing.

true
what I'm saying is look at the part of the calipers where the bolts go
they're not very thick and withstand the forces and heat associated with braking pretty well
those would have to fail first before the brackets do
also the bracket would act as a triangulation unit making the assembly even stronger

cool......... interesting

i recommend steel, i believe my stoptech adapters are steel as well.

I wonder if that's an actual engineering need or a cost cutting one
steel is usually ~$1.50-2.00 per lb vrs ~$2-3 per lb for aluminum
and what type of steel are we talking about
mild steel, iron, stainless, chromoloy, etc, etc....

its not the actual aluminum body I am worried about. Its the aluminum threads that are more of a risk. Helicoil would help it but still not as strong as an all steel thread.

helicoils are steel and helicoils threads are actually stronger than bare steel ones
they can also be removed and replaced if needed

Look at all the big brake manufacturers. All their brackets are made of steel. Hmmm I wonder why? It is all about safety. And yes they are heavier but is it enough to disregard safety?

see above

I've been running my own 6061 aluminum custom made sti brackets for about a year and a half now with not one problem. I have been wanting to copy the design with steel for a while but have not got around to it. Too much down time on the car but if I could buy some that were within a reasonable pirce, I would shell out the money pretty quick.

you could, but again you don't need to

we could make them out of steel, hell it'd cost us less
but why? is not a better solution
any engineers want to chime in on this? Nemo, Def?

[kalypso123]

ok... def a good idea then. and thank you :)

[kouki-gymkhana]

I am interested in the brackets...Aluminum or steel...It really won't matter when it comes down to it.

[garagelu]

dunno about you guys,

I have a '95 S14 with Auto booster and EVO brakes Front AND rear (yes front AND rear).

I've made the brackets my self after a lot of trial and error ordeal. out of steel..About the lines STOCK Nissan lines are Direct bolt on to the EVO/STI setup...Along with Z32 BMC you will get crazy brakes that can stop you on a fucking dime...

Proper bleeding of the REAR brakes will get you a perfect balance of the brakes..hell on the track EVO brakes along with Ralliart TARMAC pads front and ENDLESS M-power pads rear...NO fade what so ever and GREAT balance the handling was controlled by my HKS coilovers.

It's not rocket science..it's a plate with some holes in it so i think a proper price of 100-150$ is perfect

Ali,

I've got pretty much the same setup as you. I have ABS, ABS booster, z32 bmc, front and rear sti calipers. I just switched from project mu pads to hawk pads and am not liking the downgrade. The project mu braking felt so much more responsive and crisp.

Just curious, what rotors are you running?

[S14_Kouki]

Yes after everything is said and done for prob 95% of ppl on this forum dont road race or drift enough to have to worry about braking brakets. So im sure they will do the job and do it just fine.

[garagelu]

true


helicoils are steel and helicoils threads are actually stronger than bare steel ones
they can also be removed and replaced if needed



you could, but again you don't need to

we could make them out of steel, hell it'd cost us less
but why? is not a better solution
any engineers want to chime in on this? Nemo, Def?

I have heard that helicoils are stronger than bare steel but I think its just hearsay or marketing. Can you tell me why you say this statement? If this was in a different application, I would say that there is a possiblity of the helicoil pulling away from the aluminum thread. In a caliper bracket the only loads the threads will see are lateral or horizontal load. There should be no vertical loads.

There is already a couple people selling aluminum brackets. Why would you want to compete? I can almost guarantee you that if you sell steel brackets, you will outsell the aluminum ones. People arn't going to look at weight being a factor since its so minimal. They will look at the price first and then the safety factor. I say powdercoated black mild steel is the way to go. Another option is stainless steel but SS can sometimes be same or more in price than Al.

[Jakob]

ha if you put out these brackets ill buy another pair :P

so that means, do it!!! :)

[ManoNegra]

I have heard that helicoils are stronger than bare steel but I think its just hearsay or marketing.

No, it's a fact. They're an aerospace industry standard for threaded holes.
The majority of the work that we do is for the aerospace industry.

Can you tell me why you say this statement?

YouTube - helicoil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCtXiwlQsiU)

If this was in a different application, I would say that there is a possiblity of the helicoil pulling away from the aluminum thread.

????

In a caliper bracket the only loads the threads will see are lateral or horizontal load. There should be no vertical loads.

I agree with you
I'm not worried about those loads
I'm worried about cross-threading a steel bolt into an aluminum thread
I've done it before and it's a pain in the ass
helicoils would make the threads a lot more durable and
distribute the torque on the bolt evenly

There is already a couple people selling aluminum brackets. Why would you want to compete?

- because I'm not happy with what I see and have the means to make something better
- because I'm one of those people
- because I can


I can almost guarantee you that if you sell steel brackets, you will outsell the aluminum ones.

Not worried about that
I care more about making something better

People arn't going to look at weight being a factor since its so minimal.

I care and I'm sure some people that care about their car's performance will too

They will look at the price first and then the safety factor.

Price will be similar if not less than what being offered right now
I would never make/sell/endorse something that I feel puts people's safety in jeopardy

I say powdercoated black mild steel is the way to go. Another option is stainless steel but SS can sometimes be same or more in price than Al.

powdercoating isn't cheap and I personally don't like the finish all that much
mild steel is gargabe, I wouldn't use it if it were free
if I were to make these out of steel it would probably be 304 stainless.... but I won't
we could make them out of titanium too (we have some laying around)
but again, there's no need to
cost of material isn't something we take into account when designing parts
we pick the material that we feel is best suited for the application

for example, when we planned to make the misalignment ears for the Z32 spherical bearings
we decided that chromoly was the only material we would feel comfortable using and putting our name on
even though we knew that the parts would need to be plated to prevent rust
at an additional cost to us

[ManoNegra]

ha if you put out these brackets ill buy another pair :P

so that means, do it!!! :)

lol, if you do I'll make sure to give you a discount.

[DrtyRat]

Iirc, doesn't the anodizing process make the aluminum just as hard, if not harder than steel?

[Slammed180]

I'm in need of STI brackets right now. I would like to see some other options as far as adapter brackets. I would think steel would be a good option (at least for my personal peace of mind)

Also, I don't want to spend money on a bracket that requires me to modify it in order to clear the calipers discrepancies.

So, I would say yes, there is definitely a market for them.

[ManoNegra]

Iirc, doesn't the anodizing process make the aluminum just as hard, if not harder than steel?

Not quite, it's more more corrosion and wear resistance process
pretty colors/finishes are just an added bonus ;)

Now, we can talk about heat-treatable aluminum or harder tempers of aluminum
but again that's more $$$ and not needed for this application

[Def]

Even plain jane 6061 aluminum is as strong as most alloys of mild steel from a yield strength perspective. It'll handle the loads just fine.

My choice would be something like 2024, but the cost is up there for that. For those of you that don't know, that's what they make fighter jet bulkheads out of that pull 9 G's. It's also known as "duraluminum" in the Nissan world(that was a name for a similar alloy back around WWII).

[garagelu]

Yea if you do a lot of work for the aerospace industry, you probably know your stuff and know more than me. I've taken materials classes in college and worked in a component fatigue lab but thats about it. We did some helicoil pull tests on big chunks of Al a while back. I forgot what grade Al it was though. We basically chose a couple holes in the block and installed the helicoil with a bolt. Then used a press to pull the bolt out to see the carnage. These were 16 and 18 mm bolts used in Caterpillar machines pulled with a 25 ton press.

I would really like to see what you come out with. If the design is better than mine, I would consider picking a set of your up. Have you priced everything out yet so you can tell us how much you will offer these to us at? And when do you think you will start selling these?

[ManoNegra]

Iirc, doesn't the anodizing process make the aluminum just as hard, if not harder than steel?

Yea if you do a lot of work for the aerospace industry, you probably know your stuff and know more than me. I've taken materials classes in college and worked in a component fatigue lab but thats about it. We did some helicoil pull tests on big chunks of Al a while back. I forgot what grade Al it was though. We basically chose a couple holes in the block and installed the helicoil with a bolt. Then used a press to pull the bolt out to see the carnage. These were 16 and 18 mm bolts used in Caterpillar machines pulled with a 25 ton press.

I would really like to see what you come out with. If the design is better than mine, I would consider picking a set of your up. Have you priced everything out yet so you can tell us how much you will offer these to us at? And when do you think you will start selling these?

No concrete price yet
but expect it to be in the same range as these normally go for
but with a better design and finish
I figure a month and a half is a good guesstimate on the time
these would be ready

[ManoNegra]

Calipers came in yesterday and holy s**t are they massive!
Thanks again Xracer

Going to get a cheap rotor from Napa for mock up duty
and if nothing comes up work on this during the weekend

Been speaking to Mike and he seems to think 2024
isn't that much more expensive than 6061
so it's a possibility we could be using it to make these

Also, we are looking for people with EVO calipers
we need a set to take measurements from
we're located in Carson in the southbay
so if you have them or know someone with some
please contact me via PM.

[ManoNegra]

Been a while since I updated this thread
but here's what we've been up to

Got a set of Evo calipers and rotors
spent quite a bit of time taking measurements of every conceivable feature
of the uprights and calipers to ensure perfect fitment
we even decided to split the calipers so that we could measure the
piston center to the caliper bolt points to ensure we center the calipers on
the rotors perfectly

Doing all this work, we concluded that making a universal bracket is
pretty much out of the question
the calipers, although very similar looking, vary in various key characteristics

so after getting all the number into the computer we've have started
working on the first set of brackets for the EVo
these are just prototype mock ups to work out clearance issues
the STi ones will come after.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9594/splitcalipers.jpg

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8034/cmmtablecrap.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8899/sticaliperhalf.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2199/prototypebrackets.jpg


one thing we noticed while doing all this:
notice how the calipers have two different sized pistons?
On the EVO one, which installs in a similar fashion to our calipers,
the rotor meets the smaller piston as the car goes forward

the STi caliper, on the other hand, mounts below the rotor on Subbies
and in THAT configuration, again, the smallerr piston meets the rotor
as the car goes forward
Now if we install the STi caliper on our cars with the bleeders on the top part, the rotor turns towards the
larger piston first as the car goes forward.

Now we don't know if people have noticed this or whether it matters
but we're thinking of switching the bleeders to the opposite side of the caliper
so that the rotor spins into the smaller piston just like on the EVO caliper.
It's just going to make routing the brake line a little more difficult but we
think this is the right way to go with STi calipers.

-Juan

[garagelu]

Thats really interesting that you noticed the piston size difference and direction. Originally when I went to the sti brembo setup on my car I found a killer deal. If was two driver side calipers from the sti. This would be considered 2 passenger side calipers on the 240sx.

Obviously I took this into consideration and tried to remove the allen screw and swap the bleeders. I tried so hard to get those allen screw plugs out and absolutely no luck. I am pretty sure they use high temp loctite on them. Did you have any luck getting those out?

Anyways, I did read in a book on brakes and about why they set the brakes up like that. It all has to do with pad wear. If you notice on regular passenger car calipers with same size dual piston calipers, when you take the pads off to change that it wears more on one side. So in theory I think its the leading side that should have the smaller piston.

But I did end up finding a single passenger side sti caliper to replace my driver side sti caliper. Just fyi, I didn't notice any pulling or abnormalities when I had two driver side sti calipers. And yes with the larger piston on the wrong side, you may notice more wear on one side of the pad but I doubt its anything to worry about.

I can't wait to see your final design. I'm definately going to consider changing mine out for your if I like the design. Which from the work you are doing, I am going to say I like it already.

[Def]

You want the "leading edge" piston to be the smaller diameter to wear the pads more evenly.

When the pads are providing lots of friction, they are naturally wanting to press harder on their leading edge due to the moment arm the friction force reacts upon. As in, the face is experiencing a strong downward(in our cars) force, and the pad is held back about half an inch on the pad pins. This distance generates a pretty big moment that makes the leading edge of the pad come inwards - causing tapered wear.

So the STi calipers have the proper piston arrangement, and I'd bet the Subies mount the caliper up front on the front wheels like we do. The EVO calipers are backwards on our cars.

[garagelu]

So the STi calipers have the proper piston arrangement, and I'd bet the Subies mount the caliper up front on the front wheels like we do. The EVO calipers are backwards on our cars.

I think you have that backwards right? The evo calipers are facing the front of the car and so are the 240's calipers. The sti faces the rear of the car.

[ManoNegra]

Correction:
Just got in to work and took another look at the stuff we got
Def is right, the leading piston is the smaller one on the EVO caliper
and the used pads came with the STi calipers which don't look like
they had the bleeders swapped and hence the directional wear on the pads

[Lr308]

When will the Evo brackets be ready to ship?

[ManoNegra]

Obviously I took this into consideration and tried to remove the allen screw and swap the bleeders. I tried so hard to get those allen screw plugs out and absolutely no luck. I am pretty sure they use high temp loctite on them. Did you have any luck getting those out?

I can't wait to see your final design. I'm definately going to consider changing mine out for your if I like the design. Which from the work you are doing, I am going to say I like it already.

Haven't swapped over the bleeders yet but I think it shouldn't be
too difficult to loosen the allen bolt with an air gun.

When will the Evo brackets be ready to ship?

hmmmm.... a guesstimate would be about a month.

[bshotts]

Mano...any updates on these properly-designed conversion brackets? Interested in the STI adapters and know you've designed these the correct way from the ground up (ie making many many measurements and selecting the proper material)

[landins13]

nevermind......

[ManoNegra]

Update
Well, this project for various reasons - some of which I'll mention - has been on and off
but we've finally managed to squeeze some time to work on it

material
we had decided to make the brackets out of an aluminum alloy with helicoiled threads
since we didn't see a problem with the strength of aluminum for the application
but after talking it over (and over, and over...) amongst ourselves and others
we started to factor in the temperatures and heat cycles that the brackets would see at the track
and came to the conclusion that aluminum wasn't the right choice since it looses a lot of it's properties at high temperatures
so after some research we decided on 1018 steel
since it'll withstand the high temperatures and won't distort

clearance
the fins on the back of the Evo and STi calipers create a clearance issue on the bracket design
a portion of material needed to be removed around the threaded holes that mount the bracke to the spindle
we just didn't like that and and felt that removing material around those threads wasn't very safe
this is the reason the project stalled for a while, we didn't want to compromise safety in the design
so finally we said fuck it, what would we do if these were just for us?
we would shave the back of the calipers and keep the brackets intact
so that's what we did

now we know that some people will have a problem with grinding the back of their calipers
and that's fine with us, there are options out there that don't require it
we just don't feel it's the best solution
so because of that we're planning on only doing a small run of these

we're starting with the Evo brackets and once done we'll do the STI ones
we've already run the parts through the first CNC phase
I also bolted up the prototype bracket to my car to do a final check

prototypes with clearance grooves for Evo calipers
notice how close the groove is to the holes

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7962/prototypeevobrackets.jpg

Ground Evo Caliper

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7864/evobremboground.jpg

Ground STI Caliper, it requires less material removed than the Evo caliper

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6563/sticaliperground01.jpg

Profiles

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/7964/evocalipergroundprofile.jpg

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/381/sticaliperground.jpg

on my S14, spacers are for R33 wheel clearance to coilovers

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/7834/ebobremborotorandcalipe.jpg

caliper is centered pretty well, no pads

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4200/evobrembocentered.jpg

inside view, random bolts we had laying around to mock the caliper hence the washers
we will provide proper hardware with the final design

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6547/evobremboclearanceinsid.jpg

wheel clearance

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5075/evobremboclearance.jpg


so all in all they're coming along
I won't say when they'll be ready since we always seem to find ways to procrastinate
but I feel that now that we decided what to do, it won't take long

as always, feel free to post your questions, comments or concerns

-Juan

[icedsole]

hey, i bought a set of STI brackets off you a while ago, i put them on my car and they fit great, but i am bummed i might not be able to use them because the back half of the barrel on my 17s is a funny U shape kinda with a hump, so they didnt clear the calipers... so do you think it is possible to get the caliper to not stick out so far or is that out of the question...

heres a picture tooo.

note this is sti with EVO rotor

http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx187/hellamadsick/car%20parts%20FS/bremson.png

[orion::S14]

... so do you think it is possible to get the caliper to not stick out so far or is that out of the question...

Answering on behalf of the OP - It's pretty much out of the question...

The caliper has to be centered on the rotor...so you can't move the caliper further inward, UNLESS you were to find a rotor that had a different "hat offset". PLUS, the bracket would have to be thinner by the same amount, and it's already thin. SO there's just not room to move it inward.

It's pretty much out of the question...

- Brian

[ManoNegra]

Answering on behalf of the OP - It's pretty much out of the question...

The caliper has to be centered on the rotor...so you can't move the caliper further inward, UNLESS you were to find a rotor that had a different "hat offset". PLUS, the bracket would have to be thinner by the same amount, and it's already thin. SO there's just not room to move it inward.

It's pretty much out of the question...

- Brian

exactly, the location of the caliper is determined by the rotor and upright
a rotor redesign may do it but required quite a bit or R&D and totally be not worth it

[vtund777]

Update
inside view, random bolts we had laying around to mock the caliper hence the washers
we will provide proper hardware with the final design

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6547/evobremboclearanceinsid.jpg


This is definitely a nice project. I can't wait to see the final design. I'm definitely interested!

[icedsole]

Answering on behalf of the OP - It's pretty much out of the question...

The caliper has to be centered on the rotor...so you can't move the caliper further inward, UNLESS you were to find a rotor that had a different "hat offset". PLUS, the bracket would have to be thinner by the same amount, and it's already thin. SO there's just not room to move it inward.

It's pretty much out of the question...

- Brian

thats what i was leaning towards.... looks like ill just have to go with a smaller brake set up. :/

but buy brackets from this guy they are way LEGIT!

[JRas]

get evo's to work in the rear

[Black R]

Let him finish the front brackets first!

Mano I don't mind grinding on my evo calipers!

I'll even use your prototype brackets if you cut me a deal!