2012 Presidential Election Thread! Let's kick it off early!

[mrmephistopheles]

I'm voting for Ronald Reagan.

[ThatGuy]

I'll be voting for Mickey Mouse.

[jrocslider]

flavor flav for 2012

[enkei2k]

I'm voting for Michael Jackson. Imagine if everybody wrote his name in.

[ZenkiKid]

Oprah Winfrey, hell she can buy anything why not run for president?

[airforceone451]

I vote RJF :hide:

[randyjordan]

vince from shamwow

or slap chop

[Jimmy Up]

Barack Obama :ughd:

[udon!]

we need a Japanese leader.

[DataXUnknown]

Can Bill Clinton be president again? I always loved hearing about an affair and that monica chick.

[s13 @ fullboost]

I want Don Henley to be the president.

[flip3d]

The problem isn't the president. It's the lazy Americans, including myself.

I'll vote Obama again.

[Vision Garage]

jackie chan or jet li. We need an asian president!

[barraza1984]

fuck it """"hugo chavez"""""

[Dirty Habit]

http://www.lostblog.net/postimages/lost-jack-1-08.jpg

[UNISA JECS]

I'll vote for Obama again!

[BustedS13]

i'm so tired of (current president's political party). i'm voting for (candidate for opposing party). then everything will be fine again.

[rb25_s13*CHUKI]

I vote for... um... Donald trump

[zenki.life]

bill Clinton actually was a great president(minus the affair thing)

plus he actually was our first black president not obama. lol

[RastaS13]

cmon. chewbaca. of course wookies could get the job done

[!Zar!]

I'm voting for Kim Jong-il.
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/imgLib/20080721_KimJongIl.jpg

[Enna]

I'm with Zar on this one.

[HyperTek]

my vote is for any ethnic minority.

[Drift N Dragg]

I don't understand why so many people will re-vote for a President that 1st put us in more debt then any other, Believes that Econ 101 = Borrowing LOTS of money, Wants to Bring in a Socialist Health Care plan (i.e. Gov't Run Dr.s), cut 30 % on the military (and being PRIOR Service Member, I am 100% for our Countries Military!!)and a long list that will continue for 3 more years..

Shit my Vote is for "Eric Cartman 2012" - "Respect my Authorita"

[!Zar!]

my vote is for any ethnic minority.

As opposed to a minority without an ethnic background?

http://www.comixed.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/sayen-biden.jpeg

[soreballz]

I'm voting for myself in 2012.

Soreballz for President!

[!Zar!]

Nope.

Only person who can do a good job is RJF apparently.

[drift freaq]

Nope.

Only person who can do a good job is RJF apparently.

Ya RJF But only if he renounces his Republicaness and becomes a Libertarian.


Whoever it is they are always gonna piss off someone.

[flip3d]

chewbaca and kim jong il are not american.

[!Zar!]

I know who is.
http://i32.tinypic.com/2wgf4vt.jpg

[bboyswoosh87]

I know who is.
http://i32.tinypic.com/2wgf4vt.jpg


I LOL'd so hard at this

[SexPanda]

DR DAVID MANNING!

At last, someone who get it. lmfao

WATCH----lol wut? (http://la-gun.com/manning/obama2/)

[soreballz]

Only person who can do a good job is RJF apparently.
RJF is a fucking wiener.

Admin or not, it needed to be said.

[negrosx13]

I vote for george lopez for 2012
http://www.uterwincenter.com/applause/2007/may07ap/images/GeorgeLopez.jpg

[zylvia213]

I vote for george lopez for 2012
http://www.uterwincenter.com/applause/2007/may07ap/images/GeorgeLopez.jpg

Oh hell yea i vote for Mr. Lowrider

[BostonDriftah]

Ron Paul will get my vote 1 more time.
But I'd like to see a complete wipe out of govt. n freshn' it up with Liberty again,



























































or we can keep Obama. he's pretty n talks real sweet n winks at chics, he's a history maker all righttttttttt

[negrosx13]

im telling you spanish person in office would be awesome
http://www.fancast.com/blogs/files/2009/07/lopezinside.jpg

[SexPanda]

Ron Paul will get my vote 1 more time.
But I'd like to see a complete wipe out of govt. n freshn' it up with Liberty again.

or we can keep Obama. he's pretty n talks real sweet n winks at chics, he's a history maker all righttttttttt
Now thats the spirit! lol

[revat619]

Obama again most likely, but in a perfect world.....





http://dangerousdreamer.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/christopherwalken_1783.jpg



HANDS DOWN.

[soreballz]

^I'd vote for Mr. Walken over myself any day. Good choice.

I can see it now... He wouldn't even talk at the first debate. He'd just dance his way into the hearts of Americans everywhere.

[Enna]

Haha christopher walken would be fuckin sweet. I could never take any of his speeches seriously tho lol.

[Drift N Dragg]

I know who is.
http://i32.tinypic.com/2wgf4vt.jpg


DUDE!! I Still Can't Stop Laughing!!!!!! ROFLMAO :bowrofl: .. that is some funnnnnnyy Stuff there

Haha christopher walken would be fuckin sweet. I could never take any of his speeches seriously tho lol.

Yeah you couldn't take them Seriously, But I would watch it just for the Dramatic Effect.. he make it seem everything is soo Important.. Even if he was talking about toilet Use...

[BustedS13]

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/54879-1/Sandwich.jpg? (http://4gifs.com)

wait what is this thread

[SUPERSTAR]

http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2009_Fast_and_Furious/2009_the_fast_and_the_furious_4_001.jpg

[flip3d]

What happened with Walken 08? There was a website and everything.

[SexPanda]

I still think we need a 28th amendment so that we can get arnold schwarzenegger as president.:snoop:

[Antihero983]

Phlip/ThatGuy 2012!!!
Colbert/Stewart2012!!!

[deolio]

i'd only vote for walken if he portrays bruce dickinson the entire time he's in office.

[drift freaq]

I still think we need a 28th amendment so that we can get arnold schwarzenegger as president.:snoop:

Ya the Governator !!!!

[cserrano86]

http://zombiereagan2012.com/reagan_smash.gif

[murda-c]

YTMND - Richard Nixon's Head Tells It Like It Is (http://nixonshead.ytmnd.com/)

[Drift N Dragg]

http://zombiereagan2012.com/reagan_smash.gif


dude!! Hell ya!!!!

[Xbroke_kidX]

chuck norris!!!!!

[K_style]

http://officespam.chattablogs.com/archives/Ron-Paul-Jedi-of-Republic.jpg

[dert420sx]

my vote's for phil jackson/jack nicholson 2012

[spoolandslide]

I vote.... borris the sneaky fuckin' russian

http://camerastrange.com/images/boris_the_blade.jpg

"drop de gun fatboy"

[revat619]

my vote's for phil jackson/jack nicholson 2012

i like where your head is at.

[Sil-Abc]

http://intheblack.today.com/files/2008/08/morgan-freeman-car-accident.jpg

Id vote for him just to hear his voice lol

[K_style]

http://intheblack.today.com/files/2008/08/morgan-freeman-car-accident.jpg

Id vote for him just to hear his voice lol


nvmd about Ron . .

I vote for this guy too !!

[!Zar!]

Sgt. Hugo Stiglitz

DONE

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Michael Jackson's doctor for prez!!!!!!!!

































































But seriously, Wayne Root 2012!!

[mattro]

i vote for dave AS samuel l jackson.

comon. best of of all worlds

1) black ppl cant bitch, hes black.
2) he is funny as shit for peace times
3) one "bad mother fucker" for war.

dave/jackson for 2012!

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq322/97ser/SamuelJackson.jpg
its my beer! drink it!

[napaKAliboog]

I vote... manny pac man!

[GSXRJJordan]

In all seriousness, I will write in Ron Paul again.

i'm so tired of (current president's political party). i'm voting for (candidate for opposing party). then everything will be fine again.

LOL well said. That's American sentiment.

Ron Paul will get my vote 1 more time.
But I'd like to see a complete wipe out of govt. n freshn' it up with Liberty again

YES!

Id vote for him just to hear his voice lol

Like in Deep Impact! Total presidential shit.

[2_slow_40]

RONDALF???
http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab311/2_slow_40/ronpaul-gandalf.jpg

[blownmotor]

http://st.blog.cz/d/diduska-sk.blog.cz/obrazky/13432048.jpg

Why hasn't anyone voted for him yet?

[SexPanda]

red x fail...

[98s14inaz]

In all seriousness, I will write in Ron Paul again.


I'll do the same. We need a liberty cleansing in Washington.

[S14_Kouki]

Ron Paul He wants to legalize weed :)

[Dalton918]

http://st.blog.cz/d/diduska-sk.blog.cz/obrazky/13432048.jpg

Why hasn't anyone voted for him yet?







probably because he's a pussy w/no skills

[West]

To early to care, but three things need to happen before anything gets better.

1. Electoral Vote needs to be replaced with the National Popular Vote.
2. Runner up of the NPV becomes Vice President.
3. Presidents have one four year term, no option for a 2nd.

[Dalton918]

http://www.mzeus.com/images/lil_wayne.gif








Lil Wayne for president

[blownmotor]

I like the Snowman Young Jeezy

http://www.sohh.com/img/young-jeezy-2008-11-14-300x300.jpg

[drftmark]

ron paul.

fuck obama

[S14_Kouki]

Yes Jeezy or Ron fuck lil wayne

[!Zar!]

(insert Kanye West joke here)

[S14_Kouki]

Ok we have some other threads on Obama not being a great president. So here is your chance to voice your opinion on whom you would like to see in 2012. I would like to know what everyone thinks.

Me I would not mind Ron Paul in the white house. I will say why as this thread progresses.

[ronmcdon]

As mentioned prior, I will be content as long as it's not anyone from Zilvia.net.
Why? I do not take any of you seriously here, lol.

[ESmorz]

As mentioned prior, I will be content as long as it's not anyone from Zilvia.net.
Why? I do not take any of you seriously here, lol.

Slow your roll.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/AvrilH8er13/politicalcopy.jpg

[wideride]

who's the real "PIT BULL"

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq59/modiride/for%20sale/2012.jpg

[SexPanda]

I personally would run on this one principle of financial resposibility.

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs227.snc1/7426_143568598921_504338921_2774106_1176097_n.jpg

[lolatclint]

lol i feel bad for whoevers gonna be president. cause world is going to end.

[SochBAT]

http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/ron_paul_desk.jpg

[S14_Kouki]

lol i feel bad for whoevers gonna be president. cause world is going to end.

Well the world is going to end in 2012

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I would vote for anyone who's reaction to stupid questions sounds like this:
media: "what's your stance on religion?"
candidate: "what? why?"
media: "because the people want to know"
candidate: "why do my religious views have any bearing on how I run a country"
media: "because this is a Catholic country"
candidate: "Because religion is the biggest reason for people dying in the history of the world. Now, will someone please remove that jackass"

It will never happen but I can only wish.

[S14_Kouki]

I would vote for anyone who's reaction to stupid questions sounds like this:
media: "what's your stance on religion?"
candidate: "what? why?"
media: "because the people want to know"
candidate: "why do my religious views have any bearing on how I run a country"
media: "because this is a Catholic country"
candidate: "Because religion is the biggest reason for people dying in the history of the world. Now, will someone please remove that jackass"

It will never happen but I can only wish.

Very tru, Theres actually alot of question that should be answered like that

[MELLO*SOS]

Any libertarian.

[S14_Kouki]

Maybe we should not have one president. I wonder how everything would work out if there was like a panel of presidents.

[kouki fanatic]

im voting for THE TECHNO VIKING
YouTube - KNEECAM No.1 - the original Technoviking tape from 2000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1nzEFMjkI4)

[lightsource]

http://www.mzeus.com/images/lil_wayne.gif








Lil Wayne for president

Right after he gets out of prison...

Had to do that one :fart:

[next_train]

I'm voting for Mos Def.

[revat619]

Carl Mother Fuckin Weathers.

[Weedm]

steve carell

[s13bert]

Ralph Wiggum for president lol....

[kingkilburn]

Nice bump.

[ronmcdon]

it would be, if taken seriously.
the last year of Obama's term is coming up.
it's interesting to see how ppl think about the issue now, vs a few years ago.

[GSXRJJordan]

"Yes we can" ---> "We thought we could..."

[Lees_Garage]

I vote for... um... Donald trump

I know I am diggin this thread up from the grave, but reading through it I saw this and laughed. I'll be there voting with you, and we might actually be able to vote for Trump. Lol

[Phate]

I know I am diggin this thread up from the grave, but reading through it I saw this and laughed. I'll be there voting with you, and we might actually be able to vote for Trump. Lol

I'm reasonably sure hes going to run. He was on tv the other night flaunting his birth certificate and asking Obama to bust his out. I like this guy.

[Rick-95ZE]

Dr. Sheldon Cooper FTW!

http://geniusinthemaking.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/tumblr_kvx4astfid1qzc176o1_400.jpg

[KA24DESOneThree]

I am not voting.

There is no point. The republic is dead and we're simply a democracy now. Checks and balances are a farce and special interest money always leaves us with government hacks as potential politicians, who do what they please when they please and let the media spin it as positive news for Amerika.

The two wolves will always outvote the lamb over what's for dinner.

[BustedS13]

obama is way too moderate. thinking about voting third party, probably won't. shit sucks bro.

[AN89HATCH]

If you really think about it, there is not much that Obama can do. The fact that there are so many politicians only trying to improve their own personal situations/getting reelected; and republicans holding out on everything until they get there way, what do you expect. I honestly believe many politicians on both sides, do not want to see a person of color or half color (to be politically correct lol) do well(or to appear as doing well), making it even harder for him to get anything done. Also prob will not vote.

[Felipe]

<~~~~~~ not voting

['97 S14 SE Turbo]

Gifford/Clinton 2012!!!

[theicecreamdan]

In my case, the entire government is fired. I won't ever vote to re-elect anybody who was in an elected position this year. ever. and I will be voting in future elections.

[sr20sean]

ryan tuerck for president

[Siphter]

http://falfn.com/CrusaderRabbit/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/democrats-republicans2.jpg

[insert Libertarian candidate as my vote]

[BustedS13]

if you're planning on not voting at all, why not vote third party instead? you know, for fun

[redline racer510]

keanu reeves for president bishes
he would take both pills in real life and say phuk the system

[daryl337]

If you really think about it, there is not much that Obama can do. The fact that there are so many politicians only trying to improve their own personal situations/getting reelected; and republicans holding out on everything until they get there way, what do you expect. I honestly believe many politicians on both sides, do not want to see a person of color or half color (to be politically correct lol) do well(or to appear as doing well), making it even harder for him to get anything done. Also prob will not vote.

I disagree.

What I honestly believe is that regardless of color, both sides act like such babies about everything that nothing ever gets done. This is a fault of both democraps and republican'ts. They spend so much time criticizing each other and overturning eachothers bills (just to spite eachother), that they end up getting nothing done.

[Sergio180sx]

I'm voting for paul walker!

http://wirelessmedia.ign.com/wireless/image/article/969/969457/fast-furious-20090402081602245_640w_1238784013.jpg

[daryl337]

Screw it. Since 2012 is coming and its the end of the world, lets go ahead and get the anti-christ involved and vote Justin Bieber straight in to presidency. Bypass any age rules/eligibilities and just vote that little guy right in.


The world will promptly end.

[mrmephistopheles]

I hate politics. There's never a best choice - only a lesser of evils.

Can't we resurrect FDR?


Also, bump.

[Brian]

I hope we change.

lol

[MadScientist]

Ron Muther Fucking Paul Bishes
Viva la REVOLUTION

[kingkilburn]

We don't need FDR. We need to take charge of our government. Stop electing spineless democrats and backwards as the jihadists they hate republicans. We need real news and a return to true investigative journalism. We need to demand much more from out presidential candidates. Romney hasn't answered a single question of any real consequence and Obama hasn't been asked any.

[ivantheterribl3]

Anarchy. Shit would be terrible but there would be no politicians to blame

[onehundredoctane]

200 rounds of 0.40 cal, two loaded mags of 7.62x39, let the shit hit the fan already.

[Grenade180sx]

politics is all the nerds who were teased in school, who are now just full of bullshit and pointing the god damn finger at anyone else.

i already over this point the finger at each other election shit,just tell us what you will REALLY do as president and be done with it for christ sake.

[Grenade180sx]

200 rounds of 0.40 cal, two loaded mags of 7.62x39, let the shit hit the fan already.


your light on your ammo stock pile :p

[chris_240sx]

I'll be voting for Gary Johnson

[Brian]

I'm wondering which is worse (or better?)

voting FOR somebody because their skin color
or
NOT voting for somebody because their skin color.


please advise

[slower than you]

I'm wondering which is worse (or better?)

voting FOR somebody because their skin color
or
NOT voting for somebody because their skin color.


please advise

Listen man, I didn't vote for Obama because of his skin color.


I voted for him because of his street cred'. There's a difference.

[Grenade180sx]

Listen man, I didn't vote for Obama because of his skin color.


I voted for him because of his street cred'. There's a difference.

and that "street cred" took a shit on us quick!

[revat619]

My god we are so damn fickle...

4 years ago everybody was like "fuck the republicans. Bush had 8 years and he ran this shit into the ground! we need democrats to really change things"

4 years later "Obama aint done shit. Romney will do what needs to be done"

STFU.

The power is within the people....but to exercise that power takes work. And the typical response to that is "aw fuck that shit..." Which of course leads us back to the incessant 4 year cycle of bitching and moaning about stuff that didn't get done...

[imotion s14]

about the only thing you can do is watch out for yourself. as much as i like to argue politics and hope the masses come to their senses, I know it's a long shot to expect that.

But whatever, I'm doing well and I get a kick out of seeing people get what they rightfully deserve.

[1 88 U]

My god we are so damn fickle...

4 years ago everybody was like "fuck the republicans. Bush had 8 years and he ran this shit into the ground! we need democrats to really change things"

4 years later "Obama aint done shit. Romney will do what needs to be done"

STFU.

The power is within the people....but to exercise that power takes work. And the typical response to that is "aw fuck that shit..." Which of course leads us back to the incessant 4 year cycle of bitching and moaning about stuff that didn't get done...

www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

I advise everyone to visit this site

[revat619]

What the fuck has Obama done so far? (http://www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com)

I advise everyone to visit this site

Oh i'm not saying he hasn't done anything. On the contrary, i think he's done quite a lot.

I'm just quoting more or less what the "masses" say....which of course is pure unadulterated ignorance.

[TheWolf]

All I know is that if mitt Romney was Santa Claus... Everything would come from china and the elves would be on unemployment.. And Santa owes them jobs.. Or something like that..

This dnc convention is awesome...

[onehundredoctane]

your light on your ammo stock pile :p

Ha, I'm just starting up :)

[ineedone]

All I know is that if Mitt Romney was Santa Claus... Everything would come from China and the American elves would have no jobs or unemployment insurance.. Then Santa would ship their asses to china to work in slave labor camps like Foxcon.. Or something like that..

This dnc convention is awesome...

Fixed that for you, because before I had no idea what that meant.

[1 88 U]

Michelle Obama 2016

[ineedone]

Fixed that for you, because before I had no idea what that meant.

Ok, I just saw the clip of what your original quote referenced... that was... badddd...

[LEG1T]

Clinton sealed the deal for me.

Substance.

[onehundredoctane]

Clinton sealed the deal for me.

Substance.

Oh, you mean the guy that cheated on his wife and banged an intern WHILE in office?

Yeah, everyone should trust that guy.



The people that keep calling it a "racial" election make me laugh, those are the ones that want it to be. Obama's father being black and Obama himself being bi-racial have nothing to do with why I'm not voting for him. It has everything to do with how he's spending OUR countries money that WE ALREADY DON'T HAVE! We're 16 trillion in debt and you wanna give the Muslim Brotherhood $1 billion? Where the flying fuck is that coming from and why isn't it going to try to fix the nations debt???????????!!!!!!!!!!

Forget the fact that the U.S. has typically been allies with Isreal, just throw that out the window and lets start giving money to people that kill Christians.

Those of you that put Obama in office to begin with might not recall, but the man said he would cut the national defecit by half during his first term and instead tacked on another $6 trillion . . but go ahead, point the finger at Bush, after all it's his fault OBAMA couldn't keep a promise.

[ineedone]

Oh, you mean the guy that cheated on his wife and banged an intern WHILE in office?

Yeah, everyone should trust that guy.

And what does that have to do with anything? Pretty sure your moral butt hurt has nothing to do with economics. If it did, I would be more worried about the guy who was investing in and making crap loads of money off of aborted fetuses... Romney Invested in Medical-Waste Firm That Disposed of Aborted Fetuses, Government Documents Show | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/romney-bain-abortion-stericycle-sec)

I mean, it is not like that would be counter to EVERYTHING he tells people he believes in... right? Yeah... thought so.

The people that keep calling it a "racial" election make me laugh, those are the ones that want it to be. Obama's father being black and Obama himself being bi-racial have nothing to do with why I'm not voting for him. It has everything to do with how he's spending OUR countries money that WE ALREADY DON'T HAVE!

Not our fault your party was pulling for Donald Trump (racist) during the primaries.

We're 16 trillion in debt and you wanna give the Muslim Brotherhood $1 billion? Where the flying fuck is that coming from and why isn't it going to try to fix the nations debt???????????!!!!!!!!!!

I would love to see the proof on this one... try to find something that does say "right wing news" for a source please.

The debt does suck, I will give you that, but we could argue the importance of that another time.

Forget the fact that the U.S. has typically been allies with Isreal, just throw that out the window and lets start giving money to people that kill Christians.

We are not allies any more??? Funny, because Israel seems to like Obama. I guess that is not a good narrative for the right wing hack jobs... especially when the people in power in Israel praise Obama. Haterz gun Hate

Israel's Defense Minister praises Obama's resolve, denies tensions with Netanyahu - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-s-defense-minister-praises-obama-s-resolve-denies-tensions-with-netanyahu-1.402938)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/07/opinion/friedman-israels-best-friend.html

People who kill Christians? Really, so the USA... the most Christian nation in all of the world is paying to kill Christians? RIIIIIGGGHHHTTTTTT. GTFO of here with all that retardedness... at least try and show something that proves that... How much Glenn Beck did you listen to to convince yourself of this?

Those of you that put Obama in office to begin with might not recall, but the man said he would cut the national defecit by half during his first term and instead tacked on another $6 trillion . . but go ahead, point the finger at Bush, after all it's his fault OBAMA couldn't keep a promise.

He said a lot of other things too, so what if he did not get everything done. He ended Iraq, got Osama, ended DOMA, Ended Don't Ask Don't Tell. We are not losing 800k jobs a month.

Here is the thing... I do not blame Bush, I blame stupid neo-cons and stupid ultra conservatives who think people who compromise to fix problems are stupid. How does a Mike Castle get beat in DE? By a looney toon who pretends to be a witch on the weekends but bought into your Beckian/Hannity talking points. That is stupid. How does ole tangerine lose everything he bargained for with the administration in getting the debt limit deal done? because he has to deal with nut bags who think there is a difference between rape and legitimate rape. Whatever this republican party is, it is stupid. You get rid of Michael Steele for Reince Preibus? Yeah, good job on that one too.

Seriously... Mitt Romney was not all that bad of a dude when he was Gov of MI, but GOD FORBID if he does not think gay marriage will bring the apocalypse and that women have a constitutionally protected right to choice he is just another dirty RINO. You made the guy go all crazy eyes McCain (post straight talk express - when McCain was pretty awesome) and now your going to keep losing major national races until you figure out how to get back to being normal people again.

Good luck!

[lewisfk]

Oh, you mean the guy that cheated on his wife and banged an intern WHILE in office?

Yeah, everyone should trust that guy.



The people that keep calling it a "racial" election make me laugh, those are the ones that want it to be. Obama's father being black and Obama himself being bi-racial have nothing to do with why I'm not voting for him. It has everything to do with how he's spending OUR countries money that WE ALREADY DON'T HAVE! We're 16 trillion in debt and you wanna give the Muslim Brotherhood $1 billion? Where the flying fuck is that coming from and why isn't it going to try to fix the nations debt???????????!!!!!!!!!!

Forget the fact that the U.S. has typically been allies with Isreal, just throw that out the window and lets start giving money to people that kill Christians.

Those of you that put Obama in office to begin with might not recall, but the man said he would cut the national defecit by half during his first term and instead tacked on another $6 trillion . . but go ahead, point the finger at Bush, after all it's his fault OBAMA couldn't keep a promise.

Really your going to bad mouth the only President to balance the budget 60 years!

[1 88 U]

1LxH7MtqMOQ

[fliprayzin240sx]

The way I see it, if Obama didnt do anything, we would have been the next Soviet Union, if our economy completely tanked. Seriously, what do people think would have happened if he didnt "stimulate" the economy by pumping money into it? Do some people not realize we did the same exact fucking thing after the Great Depression?

Bitching about the money he spent to try to save the economy, how about you bitch about the $3.8T we've wasted on 2 fucking wars? 10 years later, what do we have to show for? Less civil liberties, civil war in Iraq and Afghanistan still influenced by the Taliban...

Who should we blame for our economy turning to shit? ALL OF US!!! The US doesnt make anything anymore. All the jobs been shipped off overseas, we turned into a fucking consumer economy. All we've done is import shit to consume but we dont export as much shit as we used to. You want to help the economy? Stop buying shit from china...spend the extra money and buy US made stuff!!!

[1 88 U]

The way I see it, if Obama didnt do anything, we would have been the next Soviet Union, if our economy completely tanked. Seriously, what do people think would have happened if he didnt "stimulate" the economy by pumping money into it? Do some people not realize we did the same exact fucking thing after the Great Depression?

Bitching about the money he spent to try to save the economy, how about you bitch about the $3.8T we've wasted on 2 fucking wars? 10 years later, what do we have to show for? Less civil liberties, civil war in Iraq and Afghanistan still influenced by the Taliban...

Who should we blame for our economy turning to shit? ALL OF US!!! The US doesnt make anything anymore. All the jobs been shipped off overseas, we turned into a fucking consumer economy. All we've done is import shit to consume but we dont export as much shit as we used to. You want to help the economy? Stop buying shit from china...spend the extra money and buy US made stuff!!!

Top US Exports (http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/top_us_exports.html)

US is second in the world for manufacturing, behind China. Most of the shit we produce is aircrafts, generators, semiconductors, tech stuff that goes into other stuff and not retail products so you don't hear a lot about them. And quite frankly it's better for us that our economy is moving away from low skilled manufacturing labor, China can have it. But we do need to improve access to quality education that the Democrats are promoting.

[blockedwizard]

All true stuff

^^ couldnt have said it any better myself.

I think that the election will go to Obama for another 4 years for a couple of reasons.

1: Womens rights issue has been either skimmed over or bashed by the Republican party for how many months now? And all of a sudden they expect women to vote for them after basically telling them that they dont have the right to choose what they can and cannot not do with thier body

2: Veterans have been covered the entire DNC and they proven that they care about them, hell Obama lowered unemployment rates for veterans from 13.8 i think to around 8% though tax incentives for employers

3: They repbulican party had a chance before they picked Ryan up but now the party is truly as right wing conservative that they could be. Even other republicans are put off by how far to the right they are.

Either way its gonna be an interesting election, i'd rather have a president how "hasn't done anything" than one who will royaly fuck us over!!!!! Me and my girl friend are seriously considering moving to Canada if Romney wins, which sucks cause I love this country, and especially fishing for striped bass :D

[1 88 U]

Looks like Obama got a decent polling bump from the convention. Barring a scandal, Obama has this is the bag.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Romney doesnt appeal to me due to conflict of interest. Why would I vote somebody into office who makes a living off finding the loop holes in the financial world and is influenced by the financial world? Wouldnt you wanna kinda ensure you're taken care off when you get done with office?

Dick Cheney is what comes into mind when I think Romney...minus the heart attacks and shooting you in the face deal...

[blockedwizard]

Romney doesnt appeal to me due to conflict of interest. Why would I vote somebody into office who makes a living off finding the loop holes in the financial world and is influenced by the financial world? Wouldnt you wanna kinda ensure you're taken care off when you get done with office?

Dick Cheney is what comes into mind when I think Romney...minus the heart attacks and shooting you in the face deal...

Ya i feel the same way, he's made a living of taking businesses and destroying companies through Bain Capital. It's crazy to think that he tries to portray himself as just an average amaerican, and that people actually buy it.

I think that Romney kinda reminds me of Cheney too but Ryan reminds me even more of Dick. Not just because theyre both Vice Presidents canidates but what they'd like to accomplish. Cheney took the opportunity to turn two wars into a business venture for himself. He privatized the military by allowing private contractors as Black water to fight. Ryan will do the same except in that he will restructure Social Securtiy, Healthcare, etc so that the taxs dollars/savings of seniors will go to the for-profit insurance industry.

[imotion s14]

^^ couldnt have said it any better myself.

I think that the election will go to Obama for another 4 years for a couple of reasons.

1: Womens rights issue has been either skimmed over or bashed by the Republican party for how many months now? And all of a sudden they expect women to vote for them after basically telling them that they dont have the right to choose what they can and cannot not do with thier body

2: Veterans have been covered the entire DNC and they proven that they care about them, hell Obama lowered unemployment rates for veterans from 13.8 i think to around 8% though tax incentives for employers

3: They repbulican party had a chance before they picked Ryan up but now the party is truly as right wing conservative that they could be. Even other republicans are put off by how far to the right they are.

Either way its gonna be an interesting election, i'd rather have a president how "hasn't done anything" than one who will royaly fuck us over!!!!! Me and my girl friend are seriously considering moving to Canada if Romney wins, which sucks cause I love this country, and especially fishing for striped bass :D

You have rights because you are a women?

If that's the case, I want my men's rights.

You should move to Canada right now because it doesn't matter who wins.

Obama can't repeal the laws of economics any more than the Soviets could and they tried to at the point of a gun.

[ineedone]

You have rights because you are a women?

Well, the constitution is suppose to treat everyone equal... seeing as it was only white men writing it, I think some things got over looked. Like basic biology. But yes, women have rights that are separate from the rights of men. A man will never be pregnant, therefore will never have the right to abort said pregnancy.

Lets also not forget that woman have also been treated less than second class citizens for the majority of our time as a nation. Everyone would agree that it is a right to vote correct? Women did not get that till 1920. AND that took an amendment to the constitution. So, not only did they have to fight for a "god given" constitutional right, but they had to amend the damn thing just to make sure that it was saved specifically for women.

Those would probably be the best two examples, but I can go through more if you really need it?



If that's the case, I want my men's rights.

You do, its called being a white male. See how many rights you have compared not only to other races, but compared to females. The entire constitution is written by men (arguably only for ((white)) men).

You should move to Canada right now because it doesn't matter who wins.

Sadly, I pretty much agree. Apart from some specific social issues, nothing in D.C. will change with the election of either party. However, those social issues are pretty important... so if you hate the gays/women/minorities it is a pretty easy choice. If you do not... again, easy choice.

Obama can't repeal the laws of economics any more than the Soviets could and they tried to at the point of a gun.

Which laws of economics? Because the only economic system that works is when everything is blended together. An adherence to any extreme pretty much screws us all. Hard. Real, real, hard.

[blockedwizard]

Well, the constitution is suppose to treat everyone equal... seeing as it was only white men writing it, I think some things got over looked. Like basic biology. But yes, women have rights that are separate from the rights of men. A man will never be pregnant, therefore will never have the right to abort said pregnancy.

Lets also not forget that woman have also been treated less than second class citizens for the majority of our time as a nation. Everyone would agree that it is a right to vote correct? Women did not get that till 1920. AND that took an amendment to the constitution. So, not only did they have to fight for a "god given" constitutional right, but they had to amend the damn thing just to make sure that it was saved specifically for women.

Those would probably be the best two examples, but I can go through more if you really need it?

Thank you!!!! And im not saying im so happy with what Obamas done or that he hasent accomplished everything he said he would. "People say theyre all puppets", which in part is true, and that "if this puppet didnt do what he promised im ready to vote for some other puppet." Like a co-worker says to me the other day at work.

Thats all good if you dont care about social issues as imotions14 was saying, but if u care about the rights of people how have had to either fight for them or work thier asses off for them then its a pretty clear choice

[imotion s14]

You do, its called being a white male. See how many rights you have compared not only to other races, but compared to females. The entire constitution is written by men (arguably only for ((white)) men).

Yeah, too bad I'm not a white male. :hahano:

[ineedone]

Yeah, too bad I'm not a white male. :hahano:

:ddog:

I did not mean to qualify you as a white man, only to explain the point that Men do have separate "rights" and white men have (historically) had even more "rights." Like being an anchor on Foxnews, that right is only granted to white men and/or white women. :whip: (oooooh snap).

[Brian]

^^^^^^^^^^
RACE ISSUEEEEEEEEEEE
Sound the alarms!



anyways, I'm amazed at how much MORE segregated this country becomes as time goes on.

pretty sad, actually.

[ineedone]

^^^^^^^^^^
RACE ISSUEEEEEEEEEEE
Sound the alarms!



anyways, I'm amazed at how much MORE segregated this country becomes as time goes on.

pretty sad, actually.

It's more segregated? As opposed to when? Please do enlighten me...

If you meant more polarized, as in politically, then I would still remind you of this -->5 Famous Duels From American History | The Art of Manliness (http://artofmanliness.com/2010/03/30/famous-duels-from-american-history/)

The problem is that we have 24/7 access to media. Which means the loudest most incendiary voices are amplified. Whereas, the normal, boring, friendly voices get lost in the discussion.

I still think the presidential election should be decided by a 5 round title fight in the Octagon. At least then we could actually make a determination as to who would be better at something than the other.

[Brian]

Yes, There are TONS of programs of all sorts and kinds that are limited and focused on including only certain races, groups, etc.

It's an off topic idea anyways, doesn't have to do with the election.

[1 88 U]

It's more segregated? As opposed to when? Please do enlighten me...

If you meant more polarized, as in politically, then I would still remind you of this -->5 Famous Duels From American History | The Art of Manliness (http://artofmanliness.com/2010/03/30/famous-duels-from-american-history/)

The problem is that we have 24/7 access to media. Which means the loudest most incendiary voices are amplified. Whereas, the normal, boring, friendly voices get lost in the discussion.

I still think the presidential election should be decided by a 5 round title fight in the Octagon. At least then we could actually make a determination as to who would be better at something than the other.

President Bones Jones. Or President Velasquez.

[revat619]

Disclaimer: The following story is COMPLETLY unrelated to politcal policy/stance/etc....

Met Obama, Biden, and Michelle on Friday...political BS aside, they were pretty damn cool. Obama totally pissed off secret service by basically saying i'm the president, F your schedule, i'll do what i want. All 3 of them stuck around and shook our hands, gave a hug and personally thanked us for representing the country so well...and there was a CRAP LOAD of us there so i know it was a total pain in the ass. Policy wise, it doesn't mean anything and i still don't know who i'm voting for, but when the President, First Lady, and VP look you in the face, say your name back to you after you've introduced yourself and give you personal words of thanks and encouragement, it definitely leaves an impression. They didn't have to do that and as an athlete that meant A LOT.

/endofftopicstory

Continue interwebz argument. lol

[MadScientist]

I am a strong supporter of Ron Paul and his son Rand Paul.
If wesurvive long enough to see Rand Paul run and win for Pres. it would be the greatest day ever, and the fear of what we currently face would feel lifted.

I did vote for Obama, only because Clinton bowed out. I still feel he has done way better than Bush, or McCain would have. But Now... I don't think eather Obama or Romney are worth a shit, but given the threat of war that we are currently facing again. I would rather have someone who has had experince in a global manner, than a newbee getting his ego inflated. I would rather keep Hillary Clinton as part of the administration, then have her replaced by anyone else.

So, my hand is forced by the all mighty re-elect barganing tool, known as, war!
Its going to happen so start saving toilet paper to wipe your asses.

[TheWolf]

100% of americans can honestly say jimmy carter was the worst president ever in the history of america. Surprise jimmy carter's grandson is out there trying to sink romney with shakey cam.

the moochers and looters are going to win. They'll vote themselves more and more of the treasury until there's nothing left.

[ineedone]

I am a strong supporter of Ron Paul and his son Rand Paul.
If wesurvive long enough to see Rand Paul run and win for Pres. it would be the greatest day ever, and the fear of what we currently face would feel lifted.


Rand is not Ron. Either way, he will never win a general election. Aside from a few decent positions he takes on a very few select social issues, he is a nut. You cannot go around saying the Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional (or whatever nonsense he said) and expect to be taken seriously.

100% of americans can honestly say jimmy carter was the worst president ever in the history of america. Surprise jimmy carter's grandson is out there trying to sink romney with shakey cam.

Well, no. I mean 100% of people who have no clue of what they are talking about will say Carter is the worst president of all time.

10. Zachary Taylor: The 10 Worst Presidents - US News & World Report (http://www.usnews.com/news/slideshows/10-worst-presidents)

Worst Presidents: James Buchanan (1857-1861) - US News and World Report (http://www.usnews.com/news/history/articles/2007/02/16/worst-presidents-james-buchanan)

Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_St ates)

The 5 Worst US Presidents in History | Business Pundit (http://www.businesspundit.com/the-5-worst-us-presidents-in-history/)

So there is just a few articles, none of which say Carter is the worst... most of which do not even consider him in the top 10 worst.

So yeah, again... only people who have no clue about what they are talking about say stupid things like "Carter is the worst!" without thinking about the real nut jobs we have had (like Buchanan... seriously... learn some history).

But it is poetic justice to have a Carter putting out a video that is making the conservatives get all butt hurt even though nothing Romney said is really that bad. God forbid people actually know what you actually believe!

the moochers and looters are going to win. They'll vote themselves more and more of the treasury until there's nothing left.

Which moocher and looters are you talking about? Who Doesn't Pay Federal Income Taxes (Legally) - NYTimes.com (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/28/who-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes-legally/)


"Perhaps the right and left can at least agree that it is unseemly for those in the top 1 percent of income distribution, with incomes at least 10 times the median income, to pay no federal income taxes. It’s not socialism to ask them to pay something." --no way some conservative would ever say anything like that... unless... it was a guy who was in both Regean and Bush whitehouses... damnit.

[ineedone]

Mitt Romney's Mom Says his Dad was on Welfare - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPZPaysBTqk)

Moochers and looters...

[TheWolf]

Zachary Taylor: The 10 Worst Presidents - US News & World Report



Almost all your articles hinge on a president is bad due to expansion of slavery. It wasn't a bad idea back then. More social justice hootenanny that the north kept playing which lead to the death of many americans.

Carter was a flippin idiot. Mortage rates peaked at 20%. Inflation was at 10+% for almost his whole presidency. Unemployment was at 11+%. (don't run for the job if you can't fix the problems, excuses are for the weak)

He could barely keep gas in the pumps. His idea to save us was for everyone to get a solar water heater and drive slower then we'd "conserve" and wouldn't need energy. Wear a sweater and lower your thermostat to keep energy use down.

Which moocher and looters are you talking about?


I'm talking about the ones that don't pay or that do, pay little. Everyone's got to pay "sales tax" and "property tax" and all those excuses that the poor make to justify their expense on the nation as a whole. Those taxes do not fund the majority of the social services they utilize.

You can link to effective tax rates till your blue in the face. If you make millions the only way for you to offset those taxes is with losses either domestic or foreign. But 10% rate of 1,000,000 is still $100,000. Which is more than most low income earners will ever contribute in their lifetime. So what if they have a bad year. They still paid more than 95% of the goons out there.

If a poor person pays an effective tax rate of 50% on their yearly income of 20k. It's still only 10k which is chump change compared to the kind of checks the rich are writing. Poor want to compare tax rates because they would be outright stomped if they talked dollar for dollar and to write those checks. The fact is. They don't contribute and what they do couldn't run the gov't for two weeks. When bills have to get paid, and the nation as a whole passes the hat. That 47% talks a mean game but damned if they'll chip in anything more than pocket change.

The rich had to make something, had to do something, had to build something. No one has ever got rich by striking and demanding more pay. That's for the lazy. The only reason so many are not there is because they don't want to. If you can't make it in america, you can't make it anywhere. The odd's to become a millionaire don't get any better anywhere else on the planet.

Romney paid 6.2 million in income taxes in the past two years.

You paid what? maybe .001th of that. For every 10 dollar's he gave, you chipped in maybe a penny. Your right. He's the asshole that doesn't contribute enough to america. he's the problem.

[ineedone]

Almost all your articles hinge on a president is bad due to expansion of slavery. It wasn't a bad idea back then. More social justice hootenanny that the north kept playing which lead to the death of many americans.

So slavery was good? Right... sounds like you grew up in the David Duke school of hating blacks. Cool story bro... I am sure that will work out great for you.

Carter was a flippin idiot. Mortage rates peaked at 20%. Inflation was at 10+% for almost his whole presidency. Unemployment was at 11+%. (don't run for the job if you can't fix the problems, excuses are for the weak)

He could barely keep gas in the pumps. His idea to save us was for everyone to get a solar water heater and drive slower then we'd "conserve" and wouldn't need energy. Wear a sweater and lower your thermostat to keep energy use down.

You still need to make him worse than Nixon... I mean if slavery is not going to sway you I doubt you have the mental capacity to deal with how terrible Nixon was.


I'm talking about the ones that don't pay or that do, pay little. Everyone's got to pay "sales tax" and "property tax" and all those excuses that the poor make to justify their expense on the nation as a whole. Those taxes do not fund the majority of the social services they utilize.

Well sure there is the poor... but you are forgetting the working poor, the elderly, families making less than 60k, families making 100k with kids or a farm etc, the military, oh yeah and the top 1%. All of these groups generally pay no federal income tax. The one thing you do forget to add in your argument is payroll taxes, but hey I guess those are not real.

The whole point of living in a civilized society is that you sort of have to accept some level of a social pact that requires those that make more help continue to improve the situations of those who make less. That is everything from roads, to schools, to basic social services like food stamps so that some people can barely get by without dying of starvation in the streets.

You can link to effective tax rates till your blue in the face. If you make millions the only way for you to offset those taxes is with losses either domestic or foreign. But 10% rate of 1,000,000 is still $100,000. Which is more than most low income earners will ever contribute in their lifetime. So what if they have a bad year. They still paid more than 95% of the goons out there.

Oh wow, you figured out how to do percentages. I am not sure how saying rich people pay more makes your point at all. You are essentially making the case for progressive taxation. Because as you rightly state, 10% for a millionaire has no where near the same hit as 10% for someone making minimum wage would. I am not sure how taxing people who can barely afford to live into oblivion will help anything... The government could raise $700 billion by either taking half of everything earned by the bottom 50% or by raising the marginal tax rate on the top two percent. What makes more sense?

If a poor person pays an effective tax rate of 50% on their yearly income of 20k. It's still only 10k which is chump change compared to the kind of checks the rich are writing. Poor want to compare tax rates because they would be outright stomped if they talked dollar for dollar and to write those checks. The fact is. They don't contribute and what they do couldn't run the gov't for two weeks. When bills have to get paid, and the nation as a whole passes the hat. That 47% talks a mean game but damned if they'll chip in anything more than pocket change.

wow... who fights your wars? who are your police? fireman? EMTs? who works for your multi-billion dollar companies? you know what happens when you stomp out the working class, you get no workers. Again... GREAAAAT Idea... lets go back to slavery!

The rich had to make something, had to do something, had to build something. No one has ever got rich by striking and demanding more pay. That's for the lazy. The only reason so many are not there is because they don't want to. If you can't make it in america, you can't make it anywhere. The odd's to become a millionaire don't get any better anywhere else on the planet.

What are you talking about? So the only reason everyone is not a millionaire is because they are lazy? Hmmm...

Romney paid 6.2 million in income taxes in the past two years.

You paid what? maybe .001th of that. For every 10 dollar's he gave, you chipped in maybe a penny. Your right. He's the asshole that doesn't contribute enough to america. he's the problem.

Last time I checked you are on zilvia too. I would have to assume that you are not rolling in the dough. So... welcome to the moocher class you lazy racist welfare queen!

I never said Romney did or did not contribute or anything like that. I merely pointed out that his dad was on welfare so he must have never wanted his dad's vote because he was a parasite sucking from the government teet.

[ineedone]

To get back to Presidential stuff, and away from the slavey talk above.... here is ole Mittington talking about how welfare and government assistance helped his dad and how he is grateful for it! Funny how your tone changes when you talk about your shit instead of other peoples shit...

Mitt Romney Totally Loves Welfare Now, You Guys (http://wonkette.com/484714/mitt-romney-totally-loves-welfare-now-you-guys)

[Brian]

Wow, somebody in here is being a real asshole ..... ineedone

[ineedone]

Wow, somebody in here is being a real asshole ..... ineedone

Is that no longer a requirement to be on Zilvia?

[Corbic]

^^^^^^^^^^
RACE ISSUEEEEEEEEEEE
Sound the alarms!



anyways, I'm amazed at how much MORE segregated this country becomes as time goes on.

pretty sad, actually.

Unity will Divide.

[Corbic]

I still think the presidential election should be decided by a 5 round title fight in the Octagon. At least then we could actually make a determination as to who would be better at something than the other.

Putin would love that. It would save him a lot of money and effort.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-q8n7v3uC9B0/ToHqzn5rbGI/AAAAAAAACfA/Vz1bzglMxnI/s1600/Putin+fighting.jpg

[Corbic]

100% of americans can honestly say jimmy carter was the worst president ever in the history of america. Surprise jimmy carter's grandson is out there trying to sink romney with shakey cam.

the moochers and looters are going to win. They'll vote themselves more and more of the treasury until there's nothing left.


I would say it's a tie between Johnson and FDR.

Carter may have been an idiotic, but those other two basically laid the foundation for all the bullshit we are now suffering through - Grotesque abuses of Government Spend/Power and an Entitlement Class.

[Corbic]

So slavery was good? Right... sounds like you grew up in the David Duke school of hating blacks. Cool story bro... I am sure that will work out great for you.


We still utilize Slavery - its called "Out-Sourcing".

[Corbic]

You still need to make him worse than Nixon... I mean if slavery is not going to sway you I doubt you have the mental capacity to deal with how terrible Nixon was.


Accept he did two things - Got us out of Vietnam... and decided that you can't ignore 1 Billion People. (China).

I can only imagine what our relations with them would have been like had we continued on the path of stupidity by not recognizing them.


If Obama wanted to impress me with "OMFG CHANGE" - THEN LIFT THE GOD DAMN SANCTIONS ON CUBA ALREADY.


Why are we death on them but give free passes to Chavez and everyone else out there?

[1 88 U]

I would say it's a tie between Johnson and FDR.

Carter may have been an idiotic, but those other two basically laid the foundation for all the bullshit we are now suffering through - Grotesque abuses of Government Spend/Power and an Entitlement Class.

Yeah because the new deal, great society and civil rights just fucked up our society. Who said woman, blacks, poors/elderly should have the right to life liberty and happiness.

"Fuck You, Got Mine!" Am I right Corbic?

[Corbic]

Yeah because the new deal, great society and civil rights just fucked up our society. Who said woman, blacks, poors/elderly should have the right to life liberty and happiness.

"Fuck You, Got Mine!" Am I right Corbic?

You are an idiot.

Pull your head out of your ass and stop listing to the bullshit your government employed, unionized liberal teachers feed you.

The New Deal was the biggest power-grab in american history and was an utter failure. Read a book.

As for your other knee-jeck racist remarks....


Are the elderly really better off in our modern society? Do you have any factual proof their quality of late-term life has improved? Seems to me our society no longer takes care of old Gramps and Grandma but just dumps them in federally subsidized "retirement homes" which are cease pools of waste, fraud and abuse.

Lets not forget that Americans now spend more on Healthcare in 1 week than we did in the entire year of 1960. Despite this... there is not a single indicator that we are living any healthier today than we did back then. In fact, we are less healthy.

Are women really "better off"? Seems to me that Romney's wife took a beating for her decision to raise a family... shame on her. Not to mention the never ending push by our society and media to make sure girls are ok with being over sexed objects of ill-repute. Sad that Kim Kardashian would be held in higher esteem then someone like Sarah Palin...

As for Blacks... your joking right? I mean seriously? Have any of the welfare/equality initiatives actually helped the black community? Prisons in the 1950s where full of white people, now 15% of our population makes up 75% of our prisons. Black youth are more likely to be victims of violent crime today than they where 50 years ago, graduation and literacy rates are through the floor and poverty is still repent. Marriage and the Nuclear family have also completely deteriorated.

It's rather ironic, we have a Black president, yet Blacks are the worst hit by the economic rescission of the last 4 years.


Seems to me like a lot of this shit is just lip service intended to make people think they are empowered and getting a fair shake when it really just keeps them in the same place. You painted the prison walls blue instead of grey!

[1 88 U]

Before I offer a rebuttal lets get a few things straight. You really believe Medicare and Social Security is harming seniors?

You really believe Blacks are disproportionately imprisoned because of social assistance programs?

You really believe quarter billionairess house wife Ann Romney is a victim?


Are the elderly really better off in our modern society? Do you have any factual proof their quality of late-term life has improved?

Lets not forget that Americans now spend more on Healthcare in 1 week than we did in the entire year of 1960. Despite this... there is not a single indicator that we are living any healthier today than we did back then. In fact, we are less healthy.

You'll most likely ignore it because it's from "government employed, unionized liberal teachers"
http://aging.senate.gov/crs/aging1.pdf


lol. "knee-jeck racist remarks", "read a book".
what was predictably racist about my comments? I was aiming for facetious sarcasm. What book/s do you offer?

[ineedone]

We still utilize Slavery - its called "Out-Sourcing".

Good point.

Accept he did two things - Got us out of Vietnam... and decided that you can't ignore 1 Billion People. (China).

I can only imagine what our relations with them would have been like had we continued on the path of stupidity by not recognizing them.


If Obama wanted to impress me with "OMFG CHANGE" - THEN LIFT THE GOD DAMN SANCTIONS ON CUBA ALREADY.


Why are we death on them but give free passes to Chavez and everyone else out there?

Nixon did not get us out of Viet-nam, the pentagon papers forced him to. Then there is that whole watergate thing... and that he is the only president in history to have to resign. Which he did so that we did not find out about all the other crazy shit he did in Cambodia, Turkey, Cyprus, Indonesia, Pakistan, Chile, etc, etc, etc. Nixon is in a complete class by himself when it comes to illegal shit.

As for Cuba, I am with you on that one.

You are an idiot.

Pull your head out of your ass and stop listing to the bullshit your government employed, unionized liberal teachers feed you.

Yeah and screw those government employed unionized police, fireman, military, EMT, etc, etc, etc. I am not sure where you all went to school, but even in the shit hole I went too, I did not have political non-sense rammed down my throat. So this myth that all teachers are some liberal firebrands is complete nonsense. What is scarier to someone like me is that children's text books are being changed by a bunch of wackadoo nut jobs in Texas who still think the world is flat. Texas Cooks the Textbooks - Newsweek and The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/05/21/texas-cooks-the-textbooks.html)

The New Deal was the biggest power-grab in american history and was an utter failure. Read a book.

As for your other knee-jeck racist remarks....

I called the guy a racist because he said slavery was good. Calling slavery good then being called a racist is not knee-jerk, that is pretty much the least knee-jerk it can get.

The New Deal was a power grab for many different reasons. Corporations were abusing people, owned the Supreme Court and most politicians (which has... eh... kinda? changed... I guess). People had their entire life savings stolen and destroyed from the crash of the market... I get the argument against it... but it is way to simplistic and you have to completely ignore the millions of terrible things that were going on. Alas, the two candidates today are not debating the new deal. Thank god.


Are the elderly really better off in our modern society? Do you have any factual proof their quality of late-term life has improved? Seems to me our society no longer takes care of old Gramps and Grandma but just dumps them in federally subsidized "retirement homes" which are cease pools of waste, fraud and abuse.

Yes. They have money to pay medical bills and not all or even most retirement homes are cesspools of waste fraud and abuse. Achievements in Public Health, 1900-1999: Changes in the Public Health System (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4850a1.htm)

The problem is the same as any time there is lots of government money, some people will abuse it. Does that mean it is a total failure? No, it means that it needs to be policed better. I will agree that throwing more money is not the answer, but neither is stripping it away. The money needs to be tied to value.

Lets not forget that Americans now spend more on Healthcare in 1 week than we did in the entire year of 1960. Despite this... there is not a single indicator that we are living any healthier today than we did back then. In fact, we are less healthy.

Just because we spend a shit ton on healthcare does not mean we spend it wisely. We are healthier in the sense we do not die as frequently and as shortly as we did in 1960. But we also have many more issues then we did back then. We are not less healthy because we have better healthcare, we are less healthy because we have changed as a society. Our diets have changed and our food has changed. We do not have local food we have food that comes from like 3 different corporations who are pretty much poisoning us because we like it. Everyone can agree Monsanto is pretty much the Devil incarnate.. right?

Are women really "better off"? Seems to me that Romney's wife took a beating for her decision to raise a family... shame on her. Not to mention the never ending push by our society and media to make sure girls are ok with being over sexed objects of ill-repute. Sad that Kim Kardashian would be held in higher esteem then someone like Sarah Palin...

Yes. Took a "beating?" well today a "beating" is some political hack saying a mother does not really have to work (we can debate whether Ann Romney really had it hard with all those house maids and car elevators... but she still is a Mom with MS she gets props for having kids who seem to not totally suck) back in the day a beating would have meant being beat to shit and then not being able to do anything about it. You know it was not that long ago we burned women at the stake for being left handed and having freckles... that was pretty bad and I think things are a littler better now.

No one holds a Kardashian in high esteem... Sarah Palin is an idiot when it comes to politics and other things... but smart as shit when it comes to media and making money. Again, that is only possible because of how much better it is for women today. If it was 60 years ago... Palin would be another house maid not allowed to leave the kitchen or have an opinion... albeit a dumb one.

As for Blacks... your joking right? I mean seriously? Have any of the welfare/equality initiatives actually helped the black community? Prisons in the 1950s where full of white people, now 15% of our population makes up 75% of our prisons. Black youth are more likely to be victims of violent crime today than they where 50 years ago, graduation and literacy rates are through the floor and poverty is still repent. Marriage and the Nuclear family have also completely deteriorated.

That is more of a poverty issue. Not a racial issue. I would also have to say that things were much worse for minorities and blacks in the 50s when they were lynched frequently, terrorized by the KKK, and could never get a fair trial. But hey, the good ole days?

It's rather ironic, we have a Black president, yet Blacks are the worst hit by the economic rescission of the last 4 years.

Again, the issue has nothing to do with race. It is a poverty issue. Poor hicks who live in trailers in French Lick, Indiana are having a bit of trouble as well...

If you look at who are the hardest hit, it is the working poor.


Seems to me like a lot of this shit is just lip service intended to make people think they are empowered and getting a fair shake when it really just keeps them in the same place. You painted the prison walls blue instead of grey!

I can buy that to an extent.

[Corbic]

Yeah and screw those government employed unionized police, fireman, military, EMT, etc, etc, etc. I am not sure where you all went to school, but even in the shit hole I went too, I did not have political non-sense rammed down my throat. So this myth that all teachers are some liberal firebrands is complete nonsense. What is scarier to someone like me is that children's text books are being changed by a bunch of wackadoo nut jobs in Texas who still think the world is flat. Texas Cooks the Textbooks - Newsweek and The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/05/21/texas-cooks-the-textbooks.html)


Actually - yes, screw them.

Why should a Government employee make 2-3x as much as a Private worker and have a gold plated benefit package that's immune to the Affordable Healthcare Act (Obama Care) while people in the private sector are being stripped of benefits, forced into 401ks and paying more for healthcare?

Also, lets make a correction here - Military is NOT UNIONIZED. Soliders and Marines can not just go "oh shit, $35k a year sucks!!! I want more, I refuse to fight" unlike teachers in Chicago making $76k a year and are pissed off because they want a 14% raise and not be held accountable for their performance.

EMT's are employed by Hospitals, not the Gobberment.

Fireman pay varies greatly. Some cities have issues where they are making $200k a year... in my county they are all volunteers.

[S14DB]

EMT's are employed by Hospitals, not the Gobberment.

You're sure about that?

[Corbic]

You're sure about that?

Yes. Those big ambulances are privately owned. The only ones that are Goberment employees would be firefighters and policemen with EMT training as first responders.

Emergency medical services in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_medical_services_in_the_United_States)

[Phlip]

You're sure about that?

I am
And I say that to say that I am sure that they are NOT


After my accident in 2003, I was taken to the hospital in an ambulance... The $476 bill that I got for that was sent and collected completely separately from the $56k hospital bill.
It was not covered by my insurance.
That would lead me to believe that the EMTs that were sent to keep me alive en route to the hospital were employed by a company that was not the hospital or anywhere under their system.

They are USUALLY employed by public and private Emergency Medical Service providers, but not the hospitals that they serve unless that hospital is provided under the same public (city or state) entity.

[ineedone]

Actually - yes, screw them.

Why should a Government employee make 2-3x as much as a Private worker and have a gold plated benefit package that's immune to the Affordable Healthcare Act (Obama Care) while people in the private sector are being stripped of benefits, forced into 401ks and paying more for healthcare?

Prove that... In my field, lawyers make less then 1/3 in the government than what they would make in the private sector. My fiance has been offered jobs tripling her salary to work in the private sector.

We can debate the ACA all you want. I think it is better than what we had but it still not good at all. However, both Romney and Obama are big fans of the ACA and individual mandates so there is real no debate here. Unless you can tell me what his plan is... (that is rhetorical - he has no plan). Health care cost before ACA were to rise twice as much as they will rise under ACA, from my contacts they said it was going to be about 40% a year before ACA.

Also, lets make a correction here - Military is NOT UNIONIZED. Soliders and Marines can not just go "oh shit, $35k a year sucks!!! I want more, I refuse to fight" unlike teachers in Chicago making $76k a year and are pissed off because they want a 14% raise and not be held accountable for their performance.



I think you are misunderstanding the Chicago teacher issue...However, I will never agree with teachers walking off the job. No matter how justified they are in their argument as soon as they walk off, they lose the support.

EMT's are employed by Hospitals, not the Gobberment.

Depends, some are owned by fire stations, other are owned by private companies. I think it depends on the state and/or county. EMTs can be employed by hospitals, cities, etc. So it just depends on where you live and/or where you get hurt.

[Corbic]

Prove that... In my field, lawyers make less then 1/3 in the government than what they would make in the private sector. My fiance has been offered jobs tripling her salary to work in the private sector.


It is well documented.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/31/news/economy/federal_worker_pay/index.htm

http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2012/01/31/government-workers-earns-more-than-private-sector/

[ineedone]

It is well documented.
Which federal worker job pays better: Government or private? - Jan. 31, 2012 (http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/31/news/economy/federal_worker_pay/index.htm)

Government Workers Earn More Than Their Private-Sector Counterparts | Fox Business (http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2012/01/31/government-workers-earns-more-than-private-sector/)

"However, federal employees with a master’s degree earned 5% less on average, and those with professional degrees or doctorates earned roughly 23% less than comparable private sector workers."

Hmm... so when the secretary or janitor for the government earns 35k to their private sector counterparts 30k or less... that is an issue... but when a new attorney for the government ears less than 60k and their private sector earns 160k+ that is not an issue?

I guess I see this outrage as kinda... eh... made up.

[1 88 U]

I'm still waiting for Corbic to explain how public assistance keeps the black man down.

[Corbic]

I'm still waiting for Corbic to explain how public assistance keeps the black man down.

Explain to me how it's not.

40 years latter African Americans are still on the bottom of the economic latter. Predominantly black cities and districts are still ranked lowest in economic growth, safety and services.


So after trillions of dollars and decades of social uplifting, what do we have to show for all this?

The country is still segregated, culturally divided and the poor are still poor.

You know what, Oprah is a billionaire, that's what changed.

[1 88 U]

Explain to me how it's not.

40 years latter African Americans are still on the bottom of the economic latter. Predominantly black cities and districts are still ranked lowest in economic growth, safety and services.


So after trillions of dollars and decades of social uplifting, what do we have to show for all this?

The country is still segregated, culturally divided and the poor are still poor.

You know what, Oprah is a billionaire, that's what changed.

Correlation does not imply causation. Statistics 101

Before I accuse you of being a bigot I'd like for you to state in your obviously educated opinions as to what you think will raise the black man up by his bootstraps. Please offer a more nuanced answer than "get big gubment out of their lives."

[K_style]

I have questions for you all.

I moved here in state back in 2003 and will be naturalized next year which I will be able to vote(legally) unlike many illegals voting even they do not have rights.

Anyways, I have been listening Glenn Beck and Lars Larson daily basis and they both are obviously anti Democrats. And I do feel strongly agree on many thing with them especially with current Democrats in Oregon doing bad as I see it.
And it all seems to me, Democrats are being similar to communism. Maybe I am going too far, but hearing from Democrats making people relying on their government for everything makes me thing that.
But again, I maybe wrong. I never studied about political and I am new to this.



Ok, here is question I have.

1.What is both parties philosophy? beliefs? and supports?
- I found it and read it about both parties but I would like to hear from forum members what their thoughts are.

2. Have you watched 2016: Obama's America? what are your thought?

Call it dumb question or whatever you want. I only been in state for 8+ years and never found my self and political interested person before until now.

[1 88 U]

I have questions for you all.

I moved here in state back in 2003 and will be naturalized next year which I will be able to vote(legally) unlike many illegals voting even they do not have rights.

Anyways, I have been listening Glenn Beck and Lars Larson daily basis and they both are obviously anti Democrats. And I do feel strongly agree on many thing with them especially with current Democrats in Oregon doing bad as I see it.
And it all seems to me, Democrats are being similar to communism. Maybe I am going too far, but hearing from Democrats making people relying on their government for everything makes me thing that.
But again, I maybe wrong. I never studied about political and I am new to this.



Ok, here is question I have.

1.What is both parties philosophy? beliefs? and supports?
- I found it and read it about both parties but I would like to hear from forum members what their thoughts are.

2. Have you watched 2016: Obama's America? what are your thought?

Call it dumb question or whatever you want. I only been in state for 8+ years and never found my self and political interested person before until now.

What country are you from?

Glenn Beck is a Conservative Libertarian not a Republican. We have two parties in this country that hold any kind of power and they vary drastically from region to region as to their positions. Generally speaking the Republican Party is made up of majority white Protestant Christians that want a religious lead totalitarian state and a corporatist class that want not only low/no taxes and no regulations on business but also support government subsidies for said businesses. Democrats tend to be a diverse coalition of "not republicans."

We do not have a leftist party. Only a far right wing party and a center right party that is sympathetic to women, gays, blacks and poors.

[1 88 U]

I'm still waiting for Corbic to explain to me what is keeping the black man down. Last I check it was the War on Drugs, Prision Industrial System, lack of substantial education and aide, racial targeting by police and predatory lenders, but apparently it is due to too much government help?

[LEG1T]

Interested in hearing a reply myself. This has been a great read so far.

[Corbic]

"However, federal employees with a master’s degree earned 5% less on average, and those with professional degrees or doctorates earned roughly 23% less than comparable private sector workers."

Hmm... so when the secretary or janitor for the government earns 35k to their private sector counterparts 30k or less... that is an issue... but when a new attorney for the government ears less than 60k and their private sector earns 160k+ that is not an issue?

I guess I see this outrage as kinda... eh... made up.

Your still off...

Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm)

What the data show:

•Benefits. Federal workers received average benefits worth $41,791 in 2009. Most of this was the government's contribution to pensions. Employees contributed an additional $10,569.

•Pay. The average federal salary has grown 33% faster than inflation since 2000. USA TODAY reported in March that the federal government pays an average of 20% more than private firms for comparable occupations. The analysis did not consider differences in experience and education.

•Total compensation. Federal compensation has grown 36.9% since 2000 after adjusting for inflation, compared with 8.8% for private workers.

Go do some research.

In the private industry, when you are losing money you cut jobs and benefits till you can pay your bills. The Government does the opposite, they higher more people because those are votes you can count on next election.

[Corbic]

I'm still waiting for Corbic to explain to me what is keeping the black man down. Last I check it was the War on Drugs, Prision Industrial System, lack of substantial education and aide, racial targeting by police and predatory lenders, but apparently it is due to too much government help?

So are you saying that only black people do drugs? Hence why they are more likely to be convicted?

Are you saying prisons only target black people? Sounds racist... why didn't the raging racists of the 1950's do that then?

Are you saying judges are rigging these statistics?

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content//homicide/orace.png
Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide trends in the U.S.: Trends by race (http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content//homicide/race.cfm)

Here is the deal homie... You grow up to be your parents.

Check this book out.
Rereading America: Cultural Contexts for Critical Thinking and Writing: Gary Colombo,Robert Cullen,Bonnie Lisle: 9780312405540: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Rereading-America-Cultural-Contexts-Critical/dp/0312405545)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41N3M4001QL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Basically, if you are born in the Ghetto, your mom had you at 16, your dad is in prison and you live off welfare.... you will likely grow up to knock a girl up at 16, live off welfare and end up in prison.

This is the life you know, this is the way you where raised...why should anyone except you do be anything different? Its not about "race". Your not genitally coded one way or the other. It's culture. "Inner city ghetto culture" raises inner city ghetto americans... not wealthy wall-street bankers, not hollywood douche-bags and not middle-class suburbanites.

This is ingrained at every step of your life. From the opportunities you see, to the opportunities you really have. If everyone in your life is all about "fuck school, fuck the man, respect me" - where are you going to learn anything different? School? Please, ever notice how all inner city schools are the same? Keep passing the kids till they get into HS, then blame the HS that 9th grade kids read on a 4th grade level.Then the kid drops out... gets arrest and teachers demand a raise because its hard working 9 months a year.

So to answer your question about Government handouts - yes, they give you just enough to de-centivize you from trying to take that next step. It propitiates the culture of reliance, of "you owe me". Look at the polls, half of America pays no taxes. Surprisingly enough, that same half doesn't give a shit the country is going bankrupt. They are not contributing members to the system, so why should they care if the system is failing?

Further more, how about this... as for causation... 40 years of welfare programs have done nothing to lift up the poor, so even if it's not hurting, it's obviously its not working.

My personal opinion is if you believe in equality you need to transcend race and see things as a form of culture. Culture is learned and taught, its not in our genetic make up. There is bad culture, there is unproductive culture and there is successful culture.

I truly feel special privileges and exceptions should be removed across the board to almost the extent that we stop recording racial data. You'll never get beyond the idea that "He's White" or "I'm Black" if every 15 minutes we are thinking about how many white kids graduated and what do hispanic baseball players make compared to asians ones...

Until you can honestly say everyones rights are important, and not just have special intrest groups focusing one "their group" (like League of United Latin American Citizens) then you are always going to have a divide.

[Corbic]

Interested in hearing a reply myself. This has been a great read so far.

m-OLJ2SyP10

[SimpleS14]

http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2012/267/8/c/obama_riding_a_lion_by_sharpwriter-d5ftze6.jpg

Like a boss....

[Corbic]

I wonder how many people know he is a chain smoker...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_J9PlRvGGXS8/Sws-bFJkPhI/AAAAAAAACWk/tmjcvBSt-r8/s400/obama-smoking-2.jpg

[LEG1T]

m-OLJ2SyP10

Thanks for that...right.

[Corbic]

Thanks for that...right.

You don't believe the culture of poverty is what perpetuates poverty?


Are you trying to tell me that there are secrete societies of old white guys with fancy rings sitting around plotting to introduce meth and higher crappy teachers to keep minorities down?

The culture of poverty is a social theory that expands on the cycle of poverty. Proponents of this theory argue that the poor are not simply lacking resources, but also have a unique value system. According to Oscar Lewis, "The subculture [of the poor] develops mechanisms that tend to perpetuate it, especially because of what happens to the world view, aspirations, and character of the children who grow up in it.” (Moynihan 1969, p. 199).

The term "subculture of poverty" (later shortened to "culture of poverty") made its first prominent appearance in the ethnography Five Families: Mexican Case Studies in the Culture of Poverty (1959) by anthropologist Oscar Lewis. Lewis struggled to render "the poor" as legitimate subjects whose lives were transformed by poverty. He argued that although the burdens of poverty were systemic and therefore imposed upon these members of society, they led to the formation of an autonomous subculture as children were socialized into behaviors and attitudes that perpetuated their inability to escape the underclass.

Lewis gave some seventy characteristics (1996 [1966], 1998) that indicated the presence of the culture of poverty, which he argued was not shared among all of the lower classes.

The people in the culture of poverty have a strong feeling of marginality, of helplessness, of dependency, of not belonging. They are like aliens in their own country, convinced that the existing institutions do not serve their interests and needs. Along with this feeling of powerlessness is a widespread feeling of inferiority, of personal unworthiness. This is true of the slum dwellers of Mexico City, who do not constitute a distinct ethnic or racial group and do not suffer from racial discrimination. In the United States the culture of poverty that exists in the Negroes has the additional disadvantage of racial discrimination. People with a culture of poverty have very little sense of history. They are a marginal people who know only their own troubles, their own local conditions, their own neighborhood, their own way of life. Usually, they have neither the knowledge, the vision nor the ideology to see the similarities between their problems and those of others like themselves elsewhere in the world. In other words, they are not class conscious, although they are very sensitive indeed to status distinctions. When the poor become class conscious or members of trade union organizations, or when they adopt an internationalist outlook on the world they are, in my view, no longer part of the culture of poverty although they may still be desperately poor. (Lewis 1998)
Although Lewis was concerned with poverty in the developing world, the culture of poverty concept proved attractive to U.S. public policy makers and politicians. It strongly informed documents such as the Moynihan Report (1965) and the War on Poverty more generally.

The culture of poverty also emerges as a key concept in Michael Harrington's discussion of American poverty in The Other America (1962). For Harrington, the culture of poverty is a structural concept defined by social institutions of exclusion which create and perpetuate the cycle of poverty in America.

[1 88 U]

Check this book out.
Rereading America: Cultural Contexts for Critical Thinking and Writing: Gary Colombo,Robert Cullen,Bonnie Lisle: 9780312405540: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Rereading-America-Cultural-Contexts-Critical/dp/0312405545)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41N3M4001QL._SL500_AA300_.jpg



Did you just read the conservative essays and ignore Sam Harris and Michael Moore?

The Ice Cube song is dope but you are missing the point. Once people make the decision to shed themselves of the behaviors that perpetuate poverty, there must be institutions in place to allow them to rise out of it. Plenty of people have used public assistance and education aide to rise out of poverty. You are advocating throwing the baby out with the bath water which I find deplorable.

[Corbic]

Did you just read the conservative essays and ignore Sam Harris and Michael Moore?

The Ice Cube song is dope but you are missing the point. Once people make the decision to shed themselves of the behaviors that perpetuate poverty, there must be institutions in place to allow them to rise out of it. Plenty of people have used public assistance and education aide to rise out of poverty. You are advocating throwing the baby out with the bath water which I find deplorable.

Michael is as credible a source as Glen Beck.

What you are advocating is to just keep adding water till you drown the baby which I find deplorable.


The solution is not throw more money at the problem, it's use resources wiser.

Nothing makes people spend their money better than not having enough. It's when you have a glut of cash that you waste it on stupid shit. The government is no different, in fact it's worse. Bureaucrats are perpetually hood rich.

[1 88 U]

Oh I see what you're saying. Poor people have too much.

[Corbic]

Oh I see what you're saying. Poor people have too much.

Please reference.

Such comments give me the impression you have no rebuttal, you are simply making snide remarks. This means you are neither here with an open mind to take in the opinions of others, nor ate you here to present a argument to convert others.

This implies that, in Internet terms - you be troll'n.

[1 88 U]

Nothing makes people spend their money better than not having enough.
.

Do you read what you type. This statement implies the poor have it too good which is completely untrue.

[Daniel.]

This is great guys, but what is everyone in here REALLY doing to help America/Society?

[MadScientist]

Posting in a public forum hoping someone with significance will read it through and actually do something about it while I continue to stuff my face with Big Macs and Starbucks while searching internet porn on my nifty new i5.... duh...

[Daniel.]

Awesome. Carry on then! BigMacs are the real key to making America great after all.

[Corbic]

Do you read what you type. This statement implies the poor have it too good which is completely untrue.

That was a reference to government spending so that you can relate to your own fiscal experiences.

More over, even you are literally thinking I'm saying take money away from poor people so they don't waste it on cigarettes and booze.... there is still no conceivable way to interpret that as "the poor have it good".

[TheWolf]

So slavery was good? Right... sounds like you grew up in the David Duke school of hating blacks. Cool story bro... I am sure that will work out great for you.

Look at you. Get all huffy and play the race card right out of the box. No I said back then it was good. If you want to sit down and judge how a president did, like the articles you site, you must judge them with what they had, and the values of the time period they were in.

"X guy was the worst president ever because slavery expanded the most under him" is only a valid argument if you feel that slavery is the worst thing to have ever happened in US history. "X guy was the worst president ever because he killed more indians than anyone else" is also just as valid.


You still need to make him worse than Nixon... I mean if slavery is not going to sway you I doubt you have the mental capacity to deal with how terrible Nixon was.
Nixon was pretty bad. No one is arguing that point. Carter was just as bad in my opinion. Nixon at least never told anyone turn your heat off and put on a sweater for the good of the country. Basic services and basic financial services. He took a poor situation and made it worse. Nixon atleast got people out of vietnam.


Well sure there is the poor... but you are forgetting the working poor, the elderly, families making less than 60k, families making 100k with kids or a farm etc, the military, oh yeah and the top 1%. All of these groups generally pay no federal income tax. The one thing you do forget to add in your argument is payroll taxes, but hey I guess those are not real.

See. Federal programs are paid with federal monies. Many state programs are backed with federal monies. When 47% of the country does not pay any federal income taxes. That's a problem.

If you take the nations payouts, to protect each man, woman and child, and all the social programs, education, highways, etc. It is approximately $17,000 per family member. The only problem is 47% of the country is paying nothing and that tiny bit at the end, is paying for a whole lot.

I can't believe you want to bring payroll taxes into this. It's the one thing the rich pay more of than anyone and rarely get anything back. He contributed the max into the system longer than most. Again he's a bad guy.

So working poor or non working poor. Still want $17k in services, still chip in ZERO.
That zero is important in that, people talk a big game, people debate how rich should pay more. It's for the betterment of society. In reality, it's so they can continue to pay nothing. They want to tax someone elses income, take someone elses money, take someone elses production and utilize that to make their lives "better". What is better? 2 tv's instead of one? an extra car? a computer? The poor are the richest they've ever been over the past 25 years in terms of possessions.


The whole point of living in a civilized society is that you sort of have to accept some level of a social pact that requires those that make more help continue to improve the situations of those who make less. That is everything from roads, to schools, to basic social services like food stamps so that some people can barely get by without dying of starvation in the streets.

No one is dying of starvation on the streets. Sorry to burst your bubble. In fact quite the opposite is happening. Children in households receiving foodstamps are the largest ballooning segment of the population that is suffering with childhood obesity. Now this social contract also only works one way. It's for me to take responsibility for the poor around me. Not for the poor to ever take responsibility for themselves or for me. If there's no food on your table tonight, the fault of that solely rests on your shoulders. This is america. there's more opportunity here than anywhere else.


I am not sure how saying rich people pay more makes your point at all. You are essentially making the case for progressive taxation. Because as you rightly state, 10% for a millionaire has no where near the same hit as 10% for someone making minimum wage would. I am not sure how taxing people who can barely afford to live into oblivion will help anything... The government could raise $700 billion by either taking half of everything earned by the bottom 50% or by raising the marginal tax rate on the top two percent. What makes more sense?

"What makes more sense" should be rephrased to "What polls better for my election campaign". I'm not saying taxing everything they own into oblivion but someone who makes 20k a year can afford $100 a month in taxes. The rich are tired of everyone paying nothing and them being the beasts of burden. Take responsibility for your own life, contribute to society as well. Not going to do it all ourselves.


wow... who fights your wars? who are your police? fireman? EMTs? who works for your multi-billion dollar companies? you know what happens when you stomp out the working class, you get no workers. Again... GREAAAAT Idea... lets go back to slavery!

Just because someone chooses a profession that does not pay well does not mean they are lesser of a person. Does not mean that just because they have spent every dollar they make that they have no liability to contribute towards society.


What are you talking about? So the only reason everyone is not a millionaire is because they are lazy? Hmmm...
Yes. That's what I'm saying. If you want to make a million dollars this year, you're not going to do it sitting around. You're not going to do it by making 15/hr and you're not going to do it by setting a financial goal of the year for 45k. Many people just want to exist, pay their bills, and enjoy their lives. There's nothing wrong with that. No one makes a million dollars this year by accident unless winning the lotto.
When we sit down at the beginning of the year and size up our financial targets, we decide how much we want to make this year. how hard we want to work and go at it. No one else does that for us and if we get there, we do it by hard work, planning, perseverance, and investments. We don't get there by complaining that the other guy has more chips than us and we need some. We don't by saying if the super rich would only just give us a hundred grand, we'd be there. That's the logic of the poor though. Give us more, it will help us out. All evidence points to the contrary. People worked harder when they were hungry. Crime was down and more got done.


Last time I checked you are on zilvia too. I would have to assume that you are not rolling in the dough. So... welcome to the moocher class you lazy racist welfare queen!

My personal tax liabilities will be aprox 11k in january. That's income and personal property tax. My families will be in the 60-70k. Total my family, with me as the one kid, will pay 17k into 3 counties of public school systems. I personally will never send my children to public school and I never went to public school. With this ridiculous level of funding they receive, they have pretty much made a high school diploma useless.

The fact is, when we sit down in january, set our revenue goals, we include spending large sums of money just in taxes. Property taxes alone can sap weeks worth of profit. That's just money flushed down a rat hole. If we don't sit down and figure out how to pay our taxes though, no one will and in the end, they'll come and take our warehouses, and buildings, and cars all at gunpoint all to service the "needs of the poor". It costs us $20 a day to put the key in the door at one business just in property taxes. People like you will flounder, play the race card, call us lazy welfare queens, but what you won't do is get out there and make large sums of money and contribute. Again. We must be the assholes. :2c:

[MadScientist]

pretty much made a high school diploma useless

HHAHAHA... I am in college and let me tell you, a Bachelor Degree is nearly worthless. Masters is the new BS!!

[gbaby2089]

1.What is both parties philosophy? beliefs? and supports?
- I found it and read it about both parties but I would like to hear from forum members what their thoughts are.

2. Have you watched 2016: Obama's America? what are your thought?

Call it dumb question or whatever you want. I only been in state for 8+ years and never found my self and political interested person before until now.

1.) The parties do not have set party beliefs. Generally the Democrats are in favour of federal gov't spending for social aide, higher taxes rather than cutting programs, regulations on economics, less social limitations

The republicans tend to favour military spending, lower taxes, following a White Christian moral code, etc.

The Republicans shift ever more conservate with each passing day. Richard Nixon would likely be considered a democrat (if based solely on his views) today.

[LEG1T]

1.) The parties do not have set party beliefs. Generally the Democrats are in favour of federal gov't spending for social aide, higher taxes rather than cutting programs, regulations on economics, less social limitations

The republicans tend to favour military spending, lower taxes, following a White Christian moral code, etc.

The Republicans shift ever more conservate with each passing day. Richard Nixon would likely be considered a democrat (if based solely on his views) today.

Did you really just say that?"lower taxes" :keke:

[Phlip]

Did you really just say that?"lower taxes" :keke:

He said what they FAVOUR, not what actually winds up happening

[LEG1T]

He said what they FAVOUR, not what actually winds up happening

Truth, cause the opposite winds up happening.

[gbaby2089]

Did you really just say that?"lower taxes" :keke:

He said what they FAVOUR, not what actually winds up happening

Truth, cause the opposite winds up happening.

I know that completely. Philip got it. All the things are simply hopes and dreams, none of those things get done in our flawed system.

[Corbic]

following a White Christian moral code, etc.


I'd be curious to what the definition of this is... since percentage wise more blacks appose gay mariage then any other racial group and Hispanics are primarily Catholic, the christian group liberals hate the most, (male only ministers, no birth-control or abortion, aposed to homosexual lifestyles and premarital sex... in fact sex is only for procreation... ect ect. )


...Iornicly most Catholics are democrats. :hahano:

[gbaby2089]

I'd be curious to what the definition of this is... since percentage wise more blacks oppose gay mariage than any other racial group and Hispanics are primarily Catholic, the christian group liberals hate the most, (male only ministers, no birth-control or abortion, opposed to homosexual lifestyles and premarital sex... in fact sex is only for procreation... etc. etc. )


...Ironically most Catholics are democrats. :hahano:

Any one who 'hates' any religion is not truly a liberal, they are just as close minded as a bible toting 'Christian' who preaches creationism without giving evolution a second thought. Opposing gay marriage doesn't translate to a hatred for homosexuality either, they may simply not want the word marriage applied to the union. Religion shouldn't control what political party one votes for...

[S14DB]

I'd be curious to what the definition of this is... since percentage wise more blacks appose gay mariage then any other racial group and Hispanics are primarily Catholic, the christian group liberals hate the most, (male only ministers, no birth-control or abortion, aposed to homosexual lifestyles and premarital sex... in fact sex is only for procreation... ect ect. )


...Iornicly most Catholics are democrats. :hahano:
Explain to me how this is "Iornic"

You don't know many Catholics do you?

[Corbic]

Explain to me how this is "Iornic"

You don't know many Catholics do you?

Oh just half my town, family, GF's family and my own church... Yeah, I don't know Catholics...

[S14DB]

Oh just half my town, family, GF's family and my own church... Yeah, I don't know Catholics...

Still doesn't explain how this is "Iornic"

[Corbic]

Still doesn't explain how this is "Iornic"

Ok spelling Nazi. Sue fucking iPhone for the shitty spell check and typing feature.

[gbaby2089]

Spell check wouldn't have caused you to spell every other word incorrectly in the post directed at me. Look through at your post and my quote of said post.

[Corbic]

Spell check wouldn't have caused you to spell every other word incorrectly in the post directed at me. Look through at your post and my quote of said post.

Butt if wood half shopped mee!

Whim in dout attac speling cuz u haz know reel argghamant!!

[gbaby2089]

I didn't call out your spelling/grammar you got belligerent when your statement was questioned.

[Corbic]

I didn't call out your spelling/grammar you got belligerent when your statement was questioned.

U ko maac qesschion tho? Y u thought katlicks showed bee deamonkrat?

Katlick cherch vary konsirvative, but Amerikan katlicks voat 4 babi killarz and gazz? Cents mayk noes rite!?

[K_style]

Did anyone watch debate last night? I am sure most of you did.

must be some disappointment for democrats. I think Romney did very well last night..

[gbaby2089]

I thought both sides represented themselves poorly.

Obama didn't do well on any front.

Romney continued to look like a stuck up rich dude, consistently ignoring/being a dick to the moderator, still refusing to give any specifics on what he'll do as president.

[K_style]

I just heard it from news that Al Gore did interview and told reporter Obama didnt do good because of high altitude of Denver and didn't have enough time to get used to with altitude.

I think that is just some sorry excuse.

[K_style]

I thought both sides represented themselves poorly.

Obama didn't do well on any front.

Romney continued to look like a stuck up rich dude, consistently ignoring/being a dick to the moderator, still refusing to give any specifics on what he'll do as president.

I think he was pretty specific on his plan. He kept repeating his 5 plans.. but I missed more than half of it so.. People jump in to discussion.

What did you all think of debate from last night?

[Highway Riding]

Romney was clear as can be with a 2 minute answer format. The POTUS looked like he was burning some Choom with Big bird.. Must have been that colorado medi choom!

[gbaby2089]

When did Romney outline his plan? All I remember is Romney saying I did not do that or will not do that, etc. And lol @ 2 minute limit, they both went over their time alotted in each segment.

The next debate is the only one I really care about, foreign policy. They wasted way too much time on the economy, the president doesn't have near the impact that the majority of the public thinks it does.

[LEG1T]

Romney, most certainly won the debate.

Obama very passive and quite frankly submissive. He seemed to let Romney take control of the conversation. Although Romney clearly won last night. He has his work cut out for him for the undecided voters as he failed to outline plan specifics, and the deficit arithmetic. Though he played the part well.

Romney has the edge in-terms of attention and momentum setting him up for a perfect debate, where he needs to SPECIFICALLY outline his plan bullet by bullet.

Next debate will be the one to watch, I suspect President Obama will be anything but passive. Romney played the part well, now the people want to read the script. Inverse operations without scrap paper can only take you so far the people will be waiting for his plan.

Expect an anything but conversational debate. The gloves are off for the next one.

Romney to me will say anything it takes to please the party and is about as concrete on his beliefs, as my 12 year old cousin on what she wants to be when she grows up. Except she has time.

[gbaby2089]

I predict Obama will bring up the raid on Osama. Say, I got him. Drop the mic.

Walk off stage to mass applause.

Well, at least it'd be pretty cool in a dream world.

On a real note, I'd like to how each will approach the situations with Russia, Iran, etc. I know Putin/Medvadev have said its more likely they'd work with Obama than Romney.

[S14DB]

Obama was looking like he was asleep at the wheel. Is he in cruse control?

Romney plays a mean game of 3 card monte. Flashy during the show but when someone flips the cards over afterwards you're screwed. The numbers just don't ad up.

[onehundredoctane]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbcl9jCBIh1rekkeio1_400.jpg

[simmode1]

Romney plays a mean game of 3 card monte. Flashy during the show but when someone flips the cards over afterwards you're screwed.
EXACTLY what I thought when watching him. He sounded and looked great, presentation-wise. But it seemed really shourt of actual content. All flash, no substance. But alot of ppl will fall for that.

[1 88 U]

Romney lied his ass off and Obama fell asleep at the wheel.

Romney may have "won" the debate but the story in the news is he wants to kill Big Bird. That doesn't seem like a victory to me. I bet the polls don't change one bit. All he accomplished was to make his base proud that he got aggressive towards the president, even if he had to shape shift into a "compassionate conservative" to do so.

[revat619]

My thoughts on the debate:

1. Romney some how managed to be full of even MORE shit than before.

2. Obama was more bored than a 12 year old watching C-SPAN.

Next debate SHOULD be a lot more telling.

[K_style]

Saw this on Youtube today...

Romney's cheat sheet

yl6HrTjPCPs


BREAKING - Romney's Cheat Sheet Revealed
1. Wait for Obama to say "X"
2. Smile
3. Kick his ass
4. Wait for Obama to finish his reply of stuttering & stammering
5. Kick his ass again
6. Tell the moderator that you're not done
7. Repeat steps 1-5

[gbaby2089]

If by kick his ass you mean change your entire platform and renounce everything you've said previously, then yep. 'murica.

[1 88 U]

U9G8XREyG0Q

made by the animator for the Simpsons and Family Guy.

[Walperstyle]

Regarding secret societies. Obama is from a Freemason Lodge. He is one of the secret old white guys keeping minorities down, lol. (Can't remember what lodge number or where. I remember meeting a few members from there when they passed through ours)

[Corbic]

EXACTLY what I thought when watching him. He sounded and looked great, presentation-wise. But it seemed really shourt of actual content. All flash, no substance. But alot of ppl will fall for that.

Isn't that how Obama won 4 years ago?

Change you can Believe in!

[Corbic]

I predict Obama will bring up the raid on Osama. Say, I got him. Drop the mic.

Walk off stage to mass applause.

Well, at least it'd be pretty cool in a dream world.


Honestly though... what the fuck did Obama personally do to "get Osama"?

Did he PERSONALLY make a huge change in the way the Military and CIA were searching for him? Did he PERSONALLY dig into piles of data and go "AH HA I FOUND HIM"?


He just happened to be the sitting President when our armed forces finally tracked the prick down. This is one of those "Geopolitical" moments, that events are so great, and so ingrained in our countries culture it is impossible for any president, regardless of party, ideology or personality to ignore them.


Obama could not have said - "Oh, fuck the search for Osama, we give up, let bygones be bygones."

His only two choices where "arrest or kill" - and ironically, while the leftest of this country howled at Bushs' GITMO, and violation of due process - Obama just kills people with predator drones. Obama had an easy choice - Kill Him.

Being on the left Obama was free of any political fallout about "murdering" Osama from the ACLU and other groups - so Kill Osama, they left just nods and goes with it and now you can go and "dick measure" with the right.

You really think Romny, Bush, McCain, Clinton, Hilary, Palin, Kerry or Gore would have not killed Osama? Do you really think any of them would have avoided going to Afghanistan? Do you honestly have any proof that any of them would have "ended the war on terrorism and Islamic extremism?"

[gbaby2089]

Honestly though... what the fuck did Obama personally do to "get Osama"?

Did he PERSONALLY make a huge change in the way the Military and CIA were searching for him? Did he PERSONALLY dig into piles of data and go "AH HA I FOUND HIM"?


He just happened to be the sitting President when our armed forces finally tracked the prick down. This is one of those "Geopolitical" moments, that events are so great, and so ingrained in our countries culture it is impossible for any president, regardless of party, ideology or personality to ignore them.


Obama could not have said - "Oh, fuck the search for Osama, we give up, let bygones be bygones."

His only two choices where "arrest or kill" - and ironically, while the leftest of this country howled at Bushs' GITMO, and violation of due process - Obama just kills people with predator drones. Obama had an easy choice - Kill Him.

Being on the left Obama was free of any political fallout about "murdering" Osama from the ACLU and other groups - so Kill Osama, they left just nods and goes with it and now you can go and "dick measure" with the right.

You really think Romny, Bush, McCain, Clinton, Hilary, Palin, Kerry or Gore would have not killed Osama? Do you really think any of them would have avoided going to Afghanistan? Do you honestly have any proof that any of them would have "ended the war on terrorism and Islamic extremism?"


Oh you mean PAKISTAN? The country that Romney said he wouldn't go into, and Obama did this on extremely limited intel.

[TheWolf]

made by the animator for the Simpsons and Family Guy.

Can not believe the president would misquote henry ford, an american pioneer.

Henry ford did not pay his workers huge wages because he wanted them to buy cars and have a good life. He paid them huge wages because the work was monotonous, people never gained satisfaction from completing a project, and most were unreliable enough to show up. He would give many of them their first weeks paycheck and they would go off for days drinking and womanizing till they ran out.

He was perpetually frustrated with how lazy the common man was and how it was impossible to excite him to produce at high levels constantly. He would host training, safety, educational events, for the sole purpose of better productivity. He proved that better education and better pay did not make a better worker. Some either worked and some would never work. He never was interested in the a growing middle class. He was interested in growing a reliable labor force for his factories. How anyone can turn his words into saying he was for social justice is absurd. Unionization was fords greatest disappointment. "I built all of this, paid them an above standard wage, engineered an automotive empire and my workers talk of betraying me."

his book, my life and work would be a good read for the president, his other book, the international jew was a good read for hitler who based parts of mein kampf on it.

Cliffs
That'd be like taking a quote from osama bin laden and talking about what a great motivator he was.

[Corbic]

Can not believe the president would misquote henry ford, an american pioneer.

It's not miss quoting - it's called rewriting history.

[Corbic]

Oh you mean PAKISTAN? The country that Romney said he wouldn't go into, and Obama did this on extremely limited intel.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[gbaby2089]

You said Afghanistan in your post about Osama, he was killed in Pakistan.

[Corbic]

You said Afghanistan in your post about Osama, he was killed in Pakistan.

Afghanistan as in the country we invaded and have occupied for over a decade.

9/11 happened - no president was going to "keep us out".

[gbaby2089]

Romney seemed to think that, although who knows if we can believe that, he's made a nice career for himself out of taking all positions while taking no positions. Romney is not a man of action, he is not a man at all, simply a talking head on a pile of money.

CNN Fact Check: Obama, Romney and Osama bin Laden - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/07/politics/fact-check-bin-laden/index.html)

[1 88 U]

Gallup.Com - Daily News, Polls, Public Opinion on Politics, Economy, Wellbeing, and World (http://www.gallup.com/home.aspx?ref=logo)

What did I say would happen! Ignore the headline and read the 7 day rolling avg. Romney had an post debate bump only to lose it once the news started to fact check and the jobs report came out positive.

Obama Approval 51%+3
Obama Disapproval 44%-2

PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION

Obama 50%+1
Romney 45%-1

7-day rolling average

This shit is over. Get out and vote

[Brian]

simply a talking head on a pile of money.


This sums up nearly all of them.

[Corbic]

This sums up all of them.

Fixed it for you.

[Corbic]

Romney seemed to think that, although who knows if we can believe that, he's made a nice career for himself out of taking all positions while taking no positions. Romney is not a man of action, he is not a man at all, simply a talking head on a pile of money.

CNN Fact Check: Obama, Romney and Osama bin Laden - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/07/politics/fact-check-bin-laden/index.html)

Sounds like Obama's Senate career..

Hell his Presidency has been practically "let congress deal with it".