Another Suspension/Wheel Thread..

[RanciD]

Yes, I've already searched. I read through 20 threads at least, and it's searching that brought all these questions up. :) I'll try to avoid asking the same thing.

So right now I'm thinking of going with the KYB AGX/Eibach Pro-Kit strut/spring combo. The one thing I'm concerned about is the ride height though. A bunch of threads that camne up from the searches I did had people complaining that their car wasn't lowered enough or was actually raised(!?). My first and foremost priority is performance and from everything I've read so far the Pro-Kit is the better performance spring. Also, from the majority of the pictures I've seen the ride height looks fine to me. Gets rid of some of that stock wheel gap, but doesn't look like it's sitting on the ground. The next issue is wheels. I'll tell you right now, I love to drift... however I've only drifted on stock suspension/wheel set ups. I'm no expert on wheels which is the reason I'm asking all this in the first place. But anyway, searching seems to have turned up that 16" is a good compromise for looks and performance for autocross and drifting, and as I have no plans to go turbocharged in the next couple years, I think the same size all around would be the best option. Although I love the look of 240s with big rims and skinny tires sliding all over the place, I'm willing to compromise for performance and to save money. :) So to clear things up..

I'm planning on KYB AGX/Pro-Kit combo with 16" wheels. They're not too big of wheels so will my speedometer be affected at all? How wide should my wheels be if I plan to do a lot of drifting on them? 7.5 seemed pretty popular in searches but I didn't find much for 16" rims.. mostly 17/18". What size tire should I run on these wheels, and finally will the car be lowered much/will there still be a lot of wheel gap?

Ahh one more thing. Am I going to need a camber bolt or something to fix my camber, and how badly is it going to be messed up by this set up?

I'm really sorry for all the newbie questions but I want to take my drifting to the next level and I'd really like to do things right the first time. If anything I said is wrong then PLEASE tell me. I'm trying to learn as much as I can so it would help me a lot. Thanks a lot to anyone who can help me.

[adey]

205/55/16 is good if your car isn't lowered too much; it'll reduce the gap. 205/50/16 will also work well. 205/50/16 is a *slightly* shorter sidewall than stock, and 205/55/16 is slightly higher than stock. I ran 205/55/16 because it gives *slightly* more tread to work with. Also, I do a lot of highway driving, and a taller sidewall like that gave me slightly better gas mileage.

it's up in the air, though... if you're doing serious drifting, you will most likely at some point upgrade to coilovers.... no reason to not get those now. :D Yes, they all say you should learn weight transfer on stock suspension, but some of us just can't (couldn't) wait... :o I'd say if you're going with shock/spring combo, get some good shocks (something like GAB) and some stiff linear springs (I believe KG/MM and RS*R both make pretty stiff linear springs) and be done with it until WAAAY later... that type of a setup will last you a long time.

16 is a good size... I ran a pair of 16s (front) for a while, and it does look much better than 15... although I personally have no problems with 15s. :) I bet even 14s would look good if your car was "slammed" like mine. heh heh.

[HaLo]

I ran 16x7.5 and if the offset is good, you can fit 225 all around. My 225 didn't clear my front suspension (GC) but it cleared stock suspension.

[240sxspeedracer1]

Originally posted by RanciD

1)Yes, I've already searched.
2)So right now I'm thinking of going with the KYB AGX/Eibach Pro-Kit strut/spring combo.
3)The one thing I'm concerned about is the ride height though. A bunch of threads that camne up from the searches I did had people complaining that their car wasn't lowered enough or was actually raised(!?).
4)My first and foremost priority is performance and from everything I've read so far the Pro-Kit is the better performance spring.
5) Also, from the majority of the pictures I've seen the ride height looks fine to me. Gets rid of some of that stock wheel gap, but doesn't look like it's sitting on the ground.
6)I'm planning on KYB AGX/Pro-Kit combo with 16" wheels.
7)Ahh one more thing. Am I going to need a camber bolt or something to fix my camber, and how badly is it going to be messed up by this set up?

Answers:
1)Yes, I remember I searched too, there wasn't that much of information for the S13.
2)very good choice, that's what I decided to go with as well.
3)I know what your talking about. When you search, you see like the same guy complaining on like 5 different threads that his came out bad and raised it. Who knows, maybe he'll come on this thread and complain again :D
Honestly, there is no way they can be successful as they are and make mistakes continuously. It was a one time thing, and it was made into a very big thing. Mine came out perfectly, and dropped to a very nice stance and doesn't drop the mother fucker beyond 2" which will void the agx.
4)yes, the pro-kits are more for performance
5)exactly, that's exactly what happens, not dropped to the ground, nice height
6)yeah, I still have 15", Im planning on getting some nice 16" wheels in the summer
7)I had no problems with any kinds of adjustment. I just went to an alignment shop, they totally aligned everything, had no problems with camber, I did have some toe-in though, but he fixed it.

So yeah, you can get your agx with pro-kits at a very reasonable price at shox.com
I don't want to disclose the amount, but let's say it's below everybody else, and if it's not then they will beat it by a fair amount.;)

[RanciD]

Originally posted by adey
205/55/16 is good if your car isn't lowered too much; it'll reduce the gap. 205/50/16 will also work well. 205/50/16 is a *slightly* shorter sidewall than stock, and 205/55/16 is slightly higher than stock. I ran 205/55/16 because it gives *slightly* more tread to work with. Also, I do a lot of highway driving, and a taller sidewall like that gave me slightly better gas mileage.

it's up in the air, though... if you're doing serious drifting, you will most likely at some point upgrade to coilovers.... no reason to not get those now. :D Yes, they all say you should learn weight transfer on stock suspension, but some of us just can't (couldn't) wait... :o I'd say if you're going with shock/spring combo, get some good shocks (something like GAB) and some stiff linear springs (I believe KG/MM and RS*R both make pretty stiff linear springs) and be done with it until WAAAY later... that type of a setup will last you a long time.

16 is a good size... I ran a pair of 16s (front) for a while, and it does look much better than 15... although I personally have no problems with 15s. :) I bet even 14s would look good if your car was "slammed" like mine. heh heh.

Ok, so with 205/50 (or 55)/16 tires and 16x7.5 wheels I won't have any trouble rubbing on on the inside of fenders, with my speedo or with steering?

Sorry, I'm a newbie I know, but what's the advantage of having linear springs for drifting? By the way, I've been drifting on the stock set up (with LSD now) for a year or so. That's why I want to do suspension and stuff.. to take it to the next level. Coilovers are great but I don't want to end up with something cheap and I don't want to spend like $1000 to get a good set, so as many threads I saw through searches reccomended, it's better to go to struts/springs first, cause I'm not really good enough to fine tune my own spring rates and such myself yet.

[drift freaq]

Ok here is the bang for the buck hottest spring shock combo availible here in the states.

KYB AGX's, by the way read!! these are GAB's or shall I say GAB's are KYB's. Doubt me? Call up the guys at Ground Control and ask them. They took a set of GAB's apart and AGX's. Same damn valving just slight better quality piston shaft.
With that
KYB AGx's $370 new
Tein S Tech Springs $140 new
you cannot beat this deal and S tech springs are nice
that totals out at $510 for the spring shock combo plus shipping

The next best deal, is a Ground Control coilover setup, which comes out to around $730 to $830. After that you start looking at Japanese coilover setups starting around $1000 and up

[adey]

Originally posted by RanciD
Ok, so with 205/50 (or 55)/16 tires and 16x7.5 wheels I won't have any trouble rubbing on on the inside of fenders, with my speedo or with steering?
It depends on offset. If you have 16x7.5 +/- 0 you will rub your fenders and may not clear front brakes. if you have 16x7.5 +45 you will probably rub your suspension and your car will look ass. :)

205/50/16 your speedo will read FASTER than what you're ACTUALLY going. You will gain a tiny bit of acceleration, though.
205/55/16 your speedo will read SLOWER than you're actually going. You will get better gas mileage but will lose a tiny bit of acceleration.

[RanciD]

Originally posted by adey
It depends on offset. If you have 16x7.5 +/- 0 you will rub your fenders and may not clear front brakes. if you have 16x7.5 +45 you will probably rub your suspension and your car will look ass. :)

205/50/16 your speedo will read FASTER than what you're ACTUALLY going. You will gain a tiny bit of acceleration, though.
205/55/16 your speedo will read SLOWER than you're actually going. You will get better gas mileage but will lose a tiny bit of acceleration.

That helped a lot, thanks. So I should stick with about +35 to +40 offset, close to stock, to avoid rubbing on anything? Or can I go for something that looks a little better and still be okay as long as it's not too high or low?

Also, since I'm not sure if anyone saw my other question: What's the advantage to having linear springs for drifting? Searching didn't turn anything useful.

[adey]

"ideal" S13 offset for 16x7.5 is probably about +30 for front and +25 for rear... If you can find anything between +20 and +35, they should fit fine. +40 will be getting close to your suspension.

I'm not 100% sure about the linear springs thing, but linear springs should make your car more predictable, since it takes the same amount of force to compress the springs by a given amount... that is, when under load in a corner, the transition of weight will be smooth, whereas if you have progressively wound springs, weight transfer would be abrupt; it would roll a lot, then as you turn harder and harder, it would roll less for every portion of a G that you're pulling...

Does that make any sense? It's hard to explain, but it's what makes progressive springs good for STREET. Linear springs with "helper" springs act like progressive springs, to an extent; the helper springs compress (AFAIK) much faster than the "soft" bit of a progressive spring....

Okay I think I'm rambling now... I'll leave it to someone with better explanatory skills!

[RanciD]

Originally posted by adey
"ideal" S13 offset for 16x7.5 is probably about +30 for front and +25 for rear... If you can find anything between +20 and +35, they should fit fine. +40 will be getting close to your suspension.

I'm not 100% sure about the linear springs thing, but linear springs should make your car more predictable, since it takes the same amount of force to compress the springs by a given amount... that is, when under load in a corner, the transition of weight will be smooth, whereas if you have progressively wound springs, weight transfer would be abrupt; it would roll a lot, then as you turn harder and harder, it would roll less for every portion of a G that you're pulling...

Does that make any sense? It's hard to explain, but it's what makes progressive springs good for STREET. Linear springs with "helper" springs act like progressive springs, to an extent; the helper springs compress (AFAIK) much faster than the "soft" bit of a progressive spring....

Okay I think I'm rambling now... I'll leave it to someone with better explanatory skills!

That was exactly what I was looking for about the wheels, thanks a ton! :)

I think I kinda get what you're saying about the progressive/linear springs. With progressive springs you're going to get more body roll at first as you compress the softer portion of the the spring and you can't predict the springs reaction as well because depending on how far the spring is compressed your spring rate is changing. With a linear spring you've got the same spring rate all the way through so it's stiffer and more predictable. Is that about right? If not please correct me, I want to learn this stuff. :p

EDIT: Oh yeah.. will the above wheels be able to clear upgraded brakes (z32 for example) and coilovers if I were to get those in the future?

[pruto]

Originally posted by drift freaq
KYB AGX's, by the way read!! these are GAB's or shall I say GAB's are KYB's. Doubt me? Call up the guys at Ground Control and ask them. They took a set of GAB's apart and AGX's. Same damn valving just slight better quality piston shaft.
[/B]

do you seriously believe that?

1) GAB has much stiffer dampering on highest settings, many people can attest to that.
2) GABs adjust rebound AND compression, AGX only adjust one of the two (i forgot which, i think its rebound)
3) you get what you pay for, quality comes at a price. AGX are a good deal, and i would say they probably are the best bang for the buck shocks for 240sx, but when it comes down to flat out performance GAB shocks are arguably one of the best, you can't compare the two performance/quality wise.