new PS3 Slim 120gb and $299 price tag

[HyperTek]

Ok i will release all hell if someone mentions their modified xbox or turns this into a failbox vs gaystation thread lol.

PlayStation 3 Video Game, GC 09: PS3 Price Drop Announcement | Game Trailers & Videos | GameTrailers.com (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-playstation-3/54350)

Great time for those who always thought they where expensive. They currently dropped the price of the current 80gb model to $299 right now, but the new slim comes out first week of Sept.

All those rumored pictures that been around for a while are fairly accurate.
http://static.stuff.co.nz/1250634189/538/2766538.jpg

[Daniel.]

300 bucks for a Blu ray player and an awesome gaming console? Win.

Too bad I already have an 80gb. :(

The new form factor looks slick as hell though that's for sure.

[HyperTek]

haha yeah makes me wanna go slang my 40gb model even tho its fit with a 250gb hdd. but you cant install alternative operating systems on the newer one *like linux*, but thats nothing really. The new one will lack ps2 game compatibility which is something i hope they release in the future as an update.

[driftking777]

My only question is will it have the same issues as the PS2 slim with the overheating issues?

[BoostSlideWayz]

Thats wierd... cuz an add similiar to this one on yahoo last week was talking about PS3 slim but the picture looked completely different. and i noticed this one was on an add on yahoo today.. so maybe there still looking at designs

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/01/is-sonys-ps3-getting-a-redesign/

[ZX88]

i wasted 500 on an 80 gig and i barely use it...... this wont save the ps3. its now 299 because it now looks cheap.

[KwKouki]

what about the fact that if you sneezed or hiccuped anywhere near your entertainment center the console would come crashing down to the floor.

[FRpilot]

this wont save the ps3. its now 299 because it now looks cheap.

YES!! my thoughts exactly. i like that fact that it's smaller and lighter, but it looks ugly, boring, and dull w/o the flashy gloss black paint and light up buttons of the current ps3.

i'm don't really follow consoles or anything, but is it time to get a 160gb version before they are sold out, or can you just upgrade the storage capacity with a regular computer sata hd?

[Flipzide]

man i wish i didn't buy one earlier this year... lol

blu ray has been a blast though so i guess overall it wasn't that bad... haha.

[HyperTek]

YES!! my thoughts exactly. i like that fact that it's smaller and lighter, but it looks ugly, boring, and dull w/o the flashy gloss black paint and light up buttons of the current ps3.

i'm don't really follow consoles or anything, but is it time to get a 160gb version before they are sold out, or can you just upgrade the storage capacity with a regular computer sata hd?

i got a 40gb model and i put a 250gb hdd in it. so mines still good. Was hopping the modding community would of hacked these by now, but they are currently unhackable lol.

BoostSlideWayz as of last week all the slim pictures around the net where fakes made by people. This one is official

[enkei2k]

i like the way the slim looks...and also the PSPgo is kickass also. i'd totally get the slim but i still have my 60GB version. at least i still got my emotion engine that allows me to play PS2 games! suckaaaaaaa~ not that i play PS2 games anymore anyway lol...but nice to have.

[mrflip69]

You can preorder the slim at kmart.com lol

http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&partNumber=018W014436760001P&adCell=W2&catalogId=10104

[tprsilvia]

you can upgrade your hard drive but I haven't tried it out myself. here's a link on how to do it though. so need to go out an buy a new 160gb ps3.

How to upgrade your PlayStation 3 hard drive - Features at GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/features/6176090/index.html)

[coww-cho!!!!!]

thanks tprsilvia i was about to ask about that
too bad i have a ps3 that my parents bought and i only have 3 games and i dont even play it
i play my psp more lol
i needz for moneys for games!

[HyperTek]

^i just keep a watch on this forum for game deals
Video Game Deals - Cheap Ass Gamer (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
usually good stuff around $10-20 bucks sometimes makes a game worth picking up

[Dirty Habit]

I love my ps3, most awesome game system I have had to date.
Didnt like my wii, didnt like my 360.

Love my ps3.

[coww-cho!!!!!]

^i just keep a watch on this forum for game deals
Video Game Deals - Cheap Ass Gamer (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
usually good stuff around $10-20 bucks sometimes makes a game worth picking up

:bowdown: you just saved me some money thanks!

[SimpleS14]

It looks cheap, but the form factor is nice.

I will stick with my 80GB with B/C

[zaneithan]

no backwards compatability.

[!Zar!]

I just want a backwards compatible ps3.

Or at least a ps2 that doesn't cost a million dollars.

[FRpilot]

so ps3 slim is not backward compatible.

what if you want backward compatible? buy a ps3 slim = $300 and a ps2 = $100, total $400.

or buy one of the remaining current ps3 80gb at $300? should we be hoarding these old ps3s. haha

[kensreliableb18b]

heyyyy, i remember when i spent 700 bucks on a ps3...LOL

o well, at least i was the "cool kid" on the block for like 15 minutes.

[HyperTek]

mines a 40gb non-bc , but it doesnt really bother me.. but i still got some ps2 games id like to finish.

[yarou]

ive been holding off on a ps3 just for a slim one to eventually come out, my time has come!

[andisan]

I got a 80gb PS3 for $400 and it looks like its worth the $400, That new slim one looks like its worth $100, It just looks like a cheap plastic Blue-ray player, Dont get me wrong I love my PS3, especially because of the Blu-rays. And I dont mind paying an extra buck for an appealing product, But it just looks SO CHEAP.

[HyperTek]

you can take a chance and score a ps3 cheap on ebay, just gotta play your cards right goin for a "ps3 as is" or "ps3 no video".. some people sell them on ebay thinking they are broken because of no video output *the ps3 determines if your using analog or hdmi and selects the video output*, people dont know this so they think its broken and slang em cheap..

same goes for no power, idiots dont realize theres a power switch on the back lol. so you can really try for a ps3 for like $100 bucks

[FRpilot]

I got a 80gb PS3 for $400 and it looks like its worth the $400, That new slim one looks like its worth $100, It just looks like a cheap plastic Blue-ray player, But it just looks SO CHEAP.

i can't agree more. i'm sort of considering going to target/frys/bestbuys and get an old model 80gb ps3 for $300 right now before they run out. if anything, i'm attempting to reason with myself that i'm not spending $300 for a ps3 (because i know that i'll hardly use it), but i'm buying a blu-ray player.

[blitzsti22]

i love my current ps3 becuase its a first gen, i going to get this too

[andisan]

i'm not spending $300 for a ps3 (because i know that i'll hardly use it), but i'm buying a blu-ray player.

^^ Thats what I told myself, and now I dont regreat it at all paying $400 for a Blu-ray player, Wich looks amazing and cant wait till Transformer 2 comes out. It will compliment my future wife Megan fox ;)

[HyperTek]

i dont have any blu ray movies yet.. waiting til i can afford a nice hd tv flatscreen.. for now im playin on my 22 inch pc monitor with hdm-dvi cable.

[Yellow4g63]

Good news for me I have like $240 in store credit from trading in games for a while lol.

[soldiaboy]

this is what ive been waiting for

[exitspeed]

Fuck it I'm on on this SOB!

[Brian]

Doesn't look as cool as the old one, but it's newer, cheaper, better, smaller....... maybe I can convince the GF to let me get one someday.

[WanganRunner]

Holy shit how did I not hear about this. I need to start reading gaming news regularly again.

I wish it wasn't so wide, it's almost a square, but it'll fit where I'm going to put it so it's fine I guess. I'm not sold on the aesthetics, but I'd rather have this one than the original.

Price drop is nice. Hopefully they'll do a GT5 bundle with the new system for xmas. I'll pick that up.

[ZX88]

i think ill leave my ps3 to cure cancer while folding at home...... i want some haxors to hax this box up maybe then itll get more action than it does now....

[tricky_ab]

I think it looks kinda cheap (but the price is good)...

[Sleepy240]

Honestly this is a great deal. As long as you have a HD TV and can actually take advantage of having the Blu-Ray player, otherwise your better off saving for that baller TV and the PS3 second.

i dont have any blu ray movies yet.. waiting til i can afford a nice hd tv flatscreen.. for now im playin on my 22 inch pc monitor with hdm-dvi cable.

[s13poop]

sorry i'm a ps3 n00b i switched to 360 when my ps2 slim broke

which one of the ps3 models is compatible with PS2 games??

i still have all my metal gear favorites and my FF7 for PS/ PS2 which i wanna play over again

my xbox just broke for the 4th time so i'm getting my $360 back i bought it for, I also bought new LCD HDTV which i wanna get blue ray for so i thought'd i'd kill 2 birds with one stone :keke:

i know you can DL MGS off the network though but others can't be replaced

[HyperTek]

the first 20gb, 60gb and first 80gb can play ps2 games, the current line up no longer plays ps2 games.

[s13poop]

any particular reasons they did that?

and doesn't first gen have alot of heating issues??

[exitspeed]

I wouldn't care about is being PS2 compatible.

[Daniel.]

any particular reasons they did that?

and doesn't first gen have alot of heating issues??

They have some heating issues, but nothing severe.

The only models with true built in hardware support to play PS2 games were the 1st gen 20GB and 1st gen 60GB.

The 2nd gen 60gb and the 2nd gen 80gb only had software emulation and doesn't play all of your old ps2 titles.

You can check the PS website to find out what games work, and what games don't.

Don't be lazy, scroll down and read the table at the bottom of the wiki. It will tell you everything you need to know.

PlayStation 3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3)

[MikeisNissan]

It looks cheap, but the form factor is nice.

I will stick with my 80GB with B/C

dittttooooo

[HyperTek]

opps wrong thread lol

[Okinawandrifter87]

Sweeeet. Im an Xbox kid but imma def have to come pick me up one of these!

[Dutchmalmiss]

Once they stop selling the PS2 slim, which are surprisingly still selling, they'll surely release a firmware update for partial-to-full PS2 BC support.

[meteorite_flo]

Damn I wished I read this sooner, I just got a 3rd PS3 for a room in the house.

[DALAZ_68]

so the new one doesnt have the ability to play PSX-PS2 games...gay...

which is the model that can? ill get that one sometime soon b4 my PS2 game collection is totally useless...

[Bubbles]

PS2 slim which are surprisingly still selling


Surprisingly?

Check the thread, it's one of the most talked about things.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Surprisingly?

Check the thread, it's one of the most talked about things.

I'm surprised, in a good way, that it's in its 10th year and still selling strong.

I'm just a little baffled as to why they'd phase out PS2 BC on the PS3 but it can still play PS1 games**.

**reference here
PS3 Slim sized up: smaller, deeper, no Linux or PS2 compatibility (http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/18/ps3-slim-sized-up-smaller-deeper-no-linux-or-ps2-compatibilit/)

[Bubbles]

I'd probably buy another PS1 before I'd buy a PS3.

GT5 ain't got shit on GT2.

[Dutchmalmiss]

I'd probably buy another PS1 before I'd buy a PS3.

GT5 ain't got shit on GT2.

If GT3 wasn't so fun to drift with, I'd pick GT2 also haha.

[s13poop]

They have some heating issues, but nothing severe.

The only models with true built in hardware support to play PS2 games were the 1st gen 20GB and 1st gen 60GB.

The 2nd gen 60gb and the 2nd gen 80gb only had software emulation and doesn't play all of your old ps2 titles.

You can check the PS website to find out what games work, and what games don't.

Don't be lazy, scroll down and read the table at the bottom of the wiki. It will tell you everything you need to know.

PlayStation 3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3)

:bow: thank you sir

[DRIFTER-M]

So I have seen a ton of questions in here that I will try to answer to cure the confusion...

Playstation 2 Backwards Compatibility has been gone for well over a year now. The last batch of systems to have 'BC' were the MGS4 bundled 80 GB and the 80 GB systems non bundled with MGS4 around that time.

To be more thorough:

- Original 20GB and 60GB Playstation 3's had Emotion Engine chip (the chip that basically powers the Ps2) so it had what is deemed FULL Backwards Compatibility. It played basically everything your Playstation 2 would.

- Shortly after the 80GB Playstation 3's were announced, Sony also announced they were now going with Software emulation (basically what Xbox 360 had) as a downgrade for a few reasons. Overheating did play into this equation, but it had more to do with cost effectiveness as Sony was losing money on original Playstation 3 models. Software emulation is not deemed as "FULL" compatibility, but rather 'compatible with most titles'. More game titles were added to the list through Firmware updates as well. The only huge downside to no longer using the EE chip as the original Playstation 3's did, was that Playstation 2 titles would no longer look quite as sharp as they did previously, but it was no HUGE loss in quality or even a very noticeable one.

After the MGS4 bundles ran out, the first BIG price drop from Sony for the Playstation 3 came, coupled with the new 160GB model. However, the price drop came with some feature drops as well. One of which being no more Backwards Compatiblity at all (EE chip or Software Emulation). This was done to shave cost mainly, and it was effective as this was a huge sales spike for the Playstation 3. Though people love to brag about having Backwards Compatibility, truthfully many consumers do not care. I must also say myself, once you buy a Playstation 3 game, it is seldom you will want to return to a Playstation 2title unless it is something you are just obsessed with. Plus, logically, because the Playstation 2 was dropped to a $99.99 price around the same time, you could buy a Playstation 2 and a Playstation 3 for the price of what and old Playstation 3 would have cost.

SO... if you are looking for a Backwards Compatible Playstation 3, Ebay will probably be your best bet. Most retailers will no longer have these in stock.

So, for the 'non core keep up with all gamer news people' basically the casual gamers breezing this thread) no backwards compatibility is not something the new slimmer model has created, but rather adopted.

In the gaming community, the Slimmer model has been rumored for a long time, I did not think Sony would reviel it personally, but I was incorrect. I figured their big announcement for GamesCom was going to be only a price drop. The slim model however, built a ton of hype in the gaming community, and is HUGE news, and regardless of if you think it looks cheaper or not, will surely push many more units. Sony expects this as well, considering last month they started doubling orders to retailers for Playstation 3 accessories (basically when this rumor that they would announce the Slimmer model @ GC started to get some fuel), for this coming month.

So, the information overload I just gave you aside, let us take a look at the business perspective.

:aw: *ALERT* :aw: (for lack of better word, haha): I AM NOT POSTING THESE NUMBERS TO START AN ARGUMENT OF WHICH CONSOLE IS BETTER, SIMPLY POSTING THIS INFORMATION TO SHOW WHY THIS IS A GOOD BUSINESS MOVE FOR SONY

@ 299.99, the Playstation 3 will now contain a 120GB harddrive, still free to play online and still also includes free wireless connectivity, and did not lose any big features (or really any features for that matter) from this last batch of regular Playstation 3's.

@ 199.99, you can get an Xbox 360 arcade with no harddrive, no wireless connectivity unless you buy the $99.99 wireless adapter, and it still cost ~$50.00 a year to get online. Also, it still uses DVD 9.
@ 299.99 (same price as new Playstation 3) you can get an Xbox 360 with a 60GB harddrive, still have to buy an online adapter, and still have to pay for online.
And finally, @ 399.99, you can buy an Xbox 360 elite, which has a 120GB harddrive, still have to buy an online adapter, still have pay for online usage, and still uses dvd 9.

So I will use price comparison to show why this is a smart move...

PS3 = 120GB base model @ 299.99 - free online usage, a web browser, Blu-Ray drive which is great not just for movies, but also for game considering it 50 GB's of memory (over 5x normal DVD 9's).

Xbox 360 = 60GB "Pro" model @ 299.99 - ~$50 for online usage a year, no web browser, standard DVD drive.

You can see why this will possibly elevate Playstation 3 sales to a new high? This is already evident considering shortly after it was announced, it reached #1 on Amazon's game sales list and is still there now Amazon.com Bestsellers: The most popular items in Video Games. Updated hourly. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/videogames/ref=pd_ts_zgc_vg_video_games_display_on_website_mo re?pf_rd_p=475985451&pf_rd_s=right-5&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=468642&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=08W2VQCEGPN40GJ3YCX5)

This coupled with the recent hints from extremely reputible game sources stating Gran Turismo 5 will be out in 2009, will only keep pushing Playstation sales.

Very smart move on Sony's part. Very smart.

:werd:

[DRIFTER-M]

I'd probably buy another PS1 before I'd buy a PS3.

GT5 ain't got shit on GT2.

Be careful saying this, GT5 will differ big time from GT5:Prolouge

Damage, new physics, over 1,000 car car-list (some reports saying over 1,800)...

Gran Turismo 5 will be extremely legit.

Doesn't look as cool as the old one, but it's newer, cheaper, better, smaller....... maybe I can convince the GF to let me get one someday.

I worked retail (unfortunantly), during this time it was evident that using the excuse of Blu-ray player will usually be the best best in turning the tide. Couple you saying that with sitting in any electronic store that has a side by side comparison of how they movies look in regular DVD compared to Blu-Ray does a good deal as far as convincing goes.

If that doesn't work, you could always just pull the "I don't care if you don't want it I will buy it because I am awesome" approach.

Be aware, the latter has varied forms of success though... :D

I'm surprised, in a good way, that it's in its 10th year and still selling strong.


Sony has always stood by their 10 year + lifecycle. Though a good thing for us consumers, this dedication to consumers has also hindered the Playstation 3's sales. However, the recent trend has showed Sony is now expecting, and people are starting to upgrade to Playstation 3. Now with the new price drop, I will expect those numbers to rise, yet again.


and doesn't first gen have alot of heating issues??

Not unless you play it in a closed cabinet with hardly any space surrounding it.

But the newer ones have made overheating nearly a thing of the past. It is about a non-issue now.



i know you can DL MGS off the network though but others can't be replaced

They add new titles virtually every Thursday (normal update days) and sometimes on other days. I know that doesn't help too much, but that is the best available right now. However, there is a smaller and growing group within the Playstation community who feel they will add backwards compatiblity within a firmware update one day. Though I am not convinced of that, I suppose we shall see...

Regarding you love for Final Fantasy VII, I believe they have also added it to the PSN store. There are also about eleventytrajillion rumors that it is only a matter of time before they remake it for the Playstation 3. Though they have always denied it, eventually Square Enix will do as the fans please. If this is what they want, most likely it will happen. I personally think it may be that "big announcement" at next years E3 conference. Maybe @ TGS this year, but I would be more willing to say next E3. :D

[HyperTek]

i threw linux on my ps3 and did zerogameproject, now i got all SNES, NES and some Mame games on it. The genesis emulation on it doesnt work yet though.
Q3-YUh_2BXo

Since mine has no ps2 bc, i did find someone on craigslist selling a 60gb model and i offered like $60 and my ps3 minus hdd *since i have a 250gb* for his full bc ps3 minus hdd *so he could swap the 60 into my 40 and still sell it etc*.. but i didnt do it.. but that option is always there to find someone selling a bc version and trading.

[zenki.life]

gotts to go get me a ps3 now

[Daniel.]

So I have seen a ton of questions in here that I will try to answer to cure the confusion...



lol.


People will probably get more confused trying to read your long ass post.

Good looking out though I guess.
:wan:

[Gnnr]

Video Review


Sony PlayStation 3 Slim - 120GB Console reviews - CNET Reviews (http://reviews.cnet.com/consoles/sony-playstation-3-slim/4505-10109_7-33765068.html?tag=smallCarouselArea.0)

[s13poop]

THANK YOU DRIFTER-M!!!

i'm pretty much sold on the idea to switching to PS3 i'm actually mailing my 360 via UPS today

so i should have my product recieved a in 3-5 days then another week or so for my refund

by then the slim should be out and hopefully they won't be sold out everywhere :hs:

[Vision Garage]

Ill probably pick up a ps3 for the exclusive titles it has. Yes my 360 does red ring from time to time. But when it cost me zero dollars a game. You cant beat that.

[DRIFTER-M]

THANK YOU DRIFTER-M!!!

i'm pretty much sold on the idea to switching to PS3 i'm actually mailing my 360 via UPS today

so i should have my product recieved a in 3-5 days then another week or so for my refund

by then the slim should be out and hopefully they won't be sold out everywhere :hs:

No problem! Have fun with your new PS3! :D

Also, I would not worry too much about not being able to find one. Sony expected a surge, and I believe they will have plenty of consoles out to help supply the demand. That is not to say it will not sell out in some places, but if you want to find it I would think it possible.

lol.


People will probably get more confused trying to read your long ass post.

Good looking out though I guess.
:wan:

I know, I thought this too. I tried to space it accordingly and not have it just be a wall of block text. Hopefully it does help some people though :)

Also, props for posting up the list for software emu compatiblity! I meant to say that last night, but forgot.

[Brian]

I don't want my Wii.
I want a PS3.

what is my best option?

[DRIFTER-M]

I don't want my Wii.
I want a PS3.

what is my best option?

The Playstation 3 not only plays Blu-ray and is an awesome core gaming system, but is also appealing to the casual gamers now.

Up until now, the casual gaming market has been dominated by Wii, but with hits like Little Big Planet which appeals to people of all ages, simple fun inexpensive PSN store games, and Sony's recently announced own motion controller that has much more depth than even the Wii's controller does, why not just buy a Playstation 3 which does it all?

I figured by your previous post your GF wants a wii and this is creating your predicament? Again, Playstation 3 will have a motion controller on the market soon as well. Very similair, but more precise, than the Wii's.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiX-26VL4bM

[Brian]

Nope.

I bought a Wii a long while ago.
I don't even play it anymore.

That's about it.

[DRIFTER-M]

Nope.

I bought a Wii a long while ago.
I don't even play it anymore.

That's about it.

Sell it and buy a Playstation 3?

Keep it and buy a Playstation 3?

Ermm...

For real though, if you no longer want it, I am sure somebody in the forsale section would be willing to take it off your hands and depending on what you have to sell with it you could probably be very close to that 299.99 price tag of the new Playstation 3.

And if you post it up for sale, you can contribute to "http://zilvia.net/f/chat/234125-worst-lowball-offer-you-got.html" thread when you get a crazy offer.

Kind of like a two birds with one stone thing I guess :o ...

[Brian]

haha yeah.

I walked into a gamstop and apparently they will give you something like $100 for a full Wii system. ouch.

[Dirty Habit]

Fucking ps3 NHL 10 Demo wont be out for another week.

Thats the only thing I hate about the PSN. Takes them an extra two to three weeks to get anything done.

[Brian]

^^^^
lol. You speakin my langage.

I hate playing NHL09 on PS2. it sucks. It's exactly the same as the NHL'06 and on petty much.

Now, my brother has PS3 and NHL'09 and it is so badass.

[DRIFTER-M]

haha yeah.

I walked into a gamstop and apparently they will give you something like $100 for a full Wii system. ouch.

:eek:

That definitely qualifies for the http://zilvia.net/f/chat/234125-worst-lowball-offer-you-got.html thread. Haha.

That would be the reason I never deal with businesses when selling electronics I don't use anymore. I understand they have to make a profit, but at the same time... dang...

[DRO916]

$300 for the best updateable Blu Ray player on the market, with a free PS3? Curtains for 360. I might have to buy another one for the living room...

If only it came with an SD card reader like my 80GB.

[HyperTek]

supposibly gamestop already got the slims I got the ps slim early!!!!! Gamestop receiving slim's. ** 2 pics** - PLAYSTATION®3 General - PlayStation.com Forums (http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=4008158&page=1)

[DRIFTER-M]

Unfortunately, it appears to be fake.

I am on the PS boards as much as I am here, and people don't take easy to fake stuff like what was posted. He will never live it down, haha.

Time for him to create a new screenname...

[Soup Nazi]

I already have a PS2 and that has BC as well for my PS1 games. So I'm fine with the new slim PS3 not having BC... Can't wait to get one!

[BoostSlideWayz]

YouTube - PS3 Slim Unboxing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JM2BAZ8n70) dont know if some one posted this already but i came across this on youtube. looks like the rumor is actually a fact now.. Ill still with my original PS3 i like how it has 4 USBs in the front and the little door on the top for inserting memory cards etc

[illvialuver]

this is perfect I knew it would drop in price if I waited, and I have not had that much time to just play games, so if I would have bought it earlier I would have paid more and gotten less, this way when I dont have time to play it all the time, I wont feel like I am gettting ripped off.