new KA-T. barely starts, pig rich - please help!

[gmember240]

so in the last couple weeks i've been working on turboin my KA motor on my s14. list of major things I installed:

-t25 turbo
-turbo manifold
-fmic
-370 injectors
-n60 maf

So basically my problem is the car will not start unless I give it some gas. Once it's started you must hold RPMs or they will drop and car will die. While it's running I noticed there is fuel spitting out the tailpipe along with a lot of smoke.

I've heard that with the N60 maf and the larger 370 injectors, a tune is not necessarily required. Is this incorrect? Is there anyone on here that runs a KA24DET without any sort of tune? Should I spend the money and buy an SAFC and wideband and attempt to tune it? Please any help is appreciated, I leave for school in two weeks and would love to take it with me. Thanks

[gmember240]

Any one have any advice?

[essforteen]

Check for vacuum leaks
if you removed the egr then you have to re rout your vacuum lines
I recommend getting a tune if you want your motor to last

[240cracker]

prolly need a tune
i have a chipped ecu for that same setup forsale

good for 230-250hp

[boostinS14]

u can use your stock MAF. but are u using a fuel management system like a SAFCII?

[gmember240]

Check for vacuum leaks
if you removed the egr then you have to re rout your vacuum lines
I recommend getting a tune if you want your motor to last

I did remove my EGR. How do I need to reroute my lines and which ones?

prolly need a tune
i have a chipped ecu for that same setup forsale

good for 230-250hp

ya I was going to try and run a blow through setup temporarily.. pm me a price for the ECU, kinda interested.

[gmember240]

u can use your stock MAF. but are u using a fuel management system like a SAFCII?

no but I figure I need to purchase one now. I know some people locally selling some apexi neo's? these any good?

[gmember240]

well i've done some research and A LOT of people end up having the wiring backwards on their MAFs. Tommorow I will try switching it and really crossing my fingers.. Also injector O rings will be replaced tommorow, I had one go bad on the first startup so I've decided I'll jus put all new ones in and lube them in engine oil ( i heard thats a good way to do it ). Will update tommorow

[boostinS14]

well i've done some research and A LOT of people end up having the wiring backwards on their MAFs. Tommorow I will try switching it and really crossing my fingers.. Also injector O rings will be replaced tommorow, I had one go bad on the first startup so I've decided I'll jus put all new ones in and lube them in engine oil ( i heard thats a good way to do it ). Will update tommorow


my setup was exactly like yours but a stock maf can hold up no need to upgrade unless you have a t/t4 setup so suck in more air. but hey ppl have different perspectives anyway back to the point yes get a fuel management system apexi SAFCII or the NEOs or if your baller go to jim wolf technology and get a ecu tune to your setup. hmm as for the o-rings on the fuel injectors alot of ppl use vasaline :cj: hahah it works much better. turst me. good luck with your startup KA-T.org should have the numbers to insert into the safc or neo. GL again. keep us updated

[driven_]

damn, i might go with the same setup too. but hopefully i wont run into any trouble.

if i do looks like i'll have to do a ton of searching. heh.

update us all!

[roel03]

You should get a tune or something to tune with before tampering with it anymore.

On my KA-T with T25 I smoke S15 T28 SR's, but then again I'm ROM tuned.

[FaLKoN240]

The MAF is no way to tune your car at all, you have a stock ECU that thinks it's running a stock MAF, stock injectors, and a stock exhaust manifold.

What kind of fuel pump do you have?

Ghetto ass KA-T set ups is why people think the KA is such a shitty motor for turbo.

[roel03]

Also do not "attempt" to tune. Either do a lot of research so you know what you are doing, or pay someone to do it right.

Buying an SAFC and getting a tune costs as much as a ROM tune, so ditch the SAFC.

[gmember240]

my setup was exactly like yours but a stock maf can hold up no need to upgrade unless you have a t/t4 setup so suck in more air. but hey ppl have different perspectives anyway back to the point yes get a fuel management system apexi SAFCII or the NEOs or if your baller go to jim wolf technology and get a ecu tune to your setup. hmm as for the o-rings on the fuel injectors alot of ppl use vasaline :cj: hahah it works much better. turst me. good luck with your startup KA-T.org should have the numbers to insert into the safc or neo. GL again. keep us updated

how much are ECU tunes goin for these days? and ya i've been on ka-t.org and they haven't been giving the best feedback with my problems lately so i thought i'd post this one on here. feedback much better so far. will keep updated. i'm headin out now to mess with the MAF wiring and check the injectors

damn, i might go with the same setup too. but hopefully i wont run into any trouble.

if i do looks like i'll have to do a ton of searching. heh.

update us all!

After I started to do some research it turns out a lot of people have the same problem as I'm having.. running pig rich, fuel spitting out of tailpipe, killing catalytic converters, etc. Common answers I've found so far are:
-MAF wires are backwards
-Faulty injector O-rings or injectors themselves
-People insert their injectors by screwing in the heads over them instead of twisting them in by hand, causing damage?
-Coolant Temp sensor

You should get a tune or something to tune with before tampering with it anymore.

On my KA-T with T25 I smoke S15 T28 SR's, but then again I'm ROM tuned.

I'm a complete newb when it comes to tuning as in I've never done it before. A ROM tune is the same as an ECU tune correct?

and you smoke t28 SRs? how much boost you run?

The MAF is no way to tune your car at all, you have a stock ECU that thinks it's running a stock MAF, stock injectors, and a stock exhaust manifold.

What kind of fuel pump do you have?

Ghetto ass KA-T set ups is why people think the KA is such a shitty motor for turbo.

i have the stock fuel pump. I don't think a t25 would need an upgraded fuel pump that wouldn't be pushing more than 10psi. maybe I'm wrong?

as for the ghetto ass setup, it's really my first time turbocharging a car myself. I actually bought the car simply to learn more about cars themselves. The setup IMO is not that ghetto, I have the SR T25 turbo, turbo manifold, megan racing full 3" straightpipe exhaust, sr370 injectors, FMIC, n60 Maf, etc. I've seen setups A LOT more ghetto than that..

Also do not "attempt" to tune. Either do a lot of research so you know what you are doing, or pay someone to do it right.

Buying an SAFC and getting a tune costs as much as a ROM tune, so ditch the SAFC.

Ya, I have no experience with tuning. I know a local race shop that I could get it dynoed and tuned. Most likely I'll do that I just need to decide if I'm gonna go with a ROM tune or something like wideband & SAFC

[roel03]

If you have a local place to get tuned, get it dyno tuned.

If you know nothing about tuning, the purchase of a wideband and SAFC will be just a couple shiny lights for you. Not being rude, but your setup is ghetto. What is the point in installing all these parts when you don't tune. IMO, you took a step back from your NA KA rather than improving it. Also get a Walbro fuel pump, even on a basic setup.

Im running 10PSI on my car.

[SilviaSR20DET]

Yep id have to agree with everyone as well, you will encounter some problems along the way most of them pretty small problems. The tune is CRUCIAL without timing control your engine is toast. If i was you, and if i were to do it my ka-t again. I would save up for all new stuff and not cheap out on things. It will save you alot of headaches down the road trust me.

[gmember240]

If you have a local place to get tuned, get it dyno tuned.

If you know nothing about tuning, the purchase of a wideband and SAFC will be just a couple shiny lights for you. Not being rude, but your setup is ghetto. What is the point in installing all these parts when you don't tune. IMO, you took a step back from your NA KA rather than improving it. Also get a Walbro fuel pump, even on a basic setup.

Im running 10PSI on my car.

I do plan on getting it dyno tuned. I know the owner of the shop pretty well and could get a decent deal. I plan on getting some type of tuned ECU. Are enthalpys good? I know a guy selling one thats tuned for his t3/4 but he claims it will work for t25/370cc injectors/n60 maf. I can get a deal on it so let me know

and i agree with you I took a step back from NA but all i'm waiting on is ultimately a tune.

Yep id have to agree with everyone as well, you will encounter some problems along the way most of them pretty small problems. The tune is CRUCIAL without timing control your engine is toast. If i was you, and if i were to do it my ka-t again. I would save up for all new stuff and not cheap out on things. It will save you alot of headaches down the road trust me.

I'm friends with the guy i bought my turbo kit from. It's in great condition, none of the parts have been necessarily "beat on". i.e. the turbo was never run more than 10psi, no shaft play. I agree new parts are better than old ones, theres no doubt about that.

[essforteen]

Even if you get the car running right you still need a chiped ecu
your stock ecu's timing map is tooo aggressive for turbo
you motor will not last!!!
You can run 15deg. btdc timing but still your motor wont last
I recommend taking all the turbo parts off your car and do more research!

Ka-t.org is your friend!! Im serious
And im sure you might have a vacuume leak!!!!

[steve shadows]

so in the last couple weeks i've been working on turboin my KA motor on my s14. list of major things I installed:

-t25 turbo
-turbo manifold
-fmic
-370 injectors
-n60 maf

So basically my problem is the car will not start unless I give it some gas. Once it's started you must hold RPMs or they will drop and car will die. While it's running I noticed there is fuel spitting out the tailpipe along with a lot of smoke.

I've heard that with the N60 maf and the larger 370 injectors, a tune is not necessarily required. Is this incorrect? Is there anyone on here that runs a KA24DET without any sort of tune? Should I spend the money and buy an SAFC and wideband and attempt to tune it? Please any help is appreciated, I leave for school in two weeks and would love to take it with me. Thanks


You cannot install larger injectors and MAF without using some sort of Engine Management System to tune for these MASSIVE adjustments...

This is your problem.

Please invest in an AEM standalone unit and then take it a registered Tuner / Dyno Shop to have tuned properly

Do not buy the S-AFC it is a total waste of your money. If you have more questions on why I can tell you in every technical detail via PM.

[gmember240]

Todays Update:

So I pulled the injectors yesterday and took a look at the O-rings. Two of them were garbage as you can see (bottom two)

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/DaKing232/IMG00144.jpg

and i also notiuced one of the brass buttons on one of the injectors was missing so I picked another one up this morning and put all new O-rings on all of them. Heres a pic of the injector with missing brass button (left) next to the good one (right)

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/DaKing232/IMG00147.jpg

I also put in new spark plugs: the others were toast and seemed like they haven't been changed in awhile.. Also messed with the MAF wiring and that didn't do anything..

i think it's pretty obvious I need a tune.. I've already decided I'm gonna get an ECU tune of some sort. I know some one selling an enthalpy for pretty cheap thats already tuned to my setup. Well i talked to the seller on the phone and it was tuned for a t3t4 turbo with 370 injectors and n60 maf, but he says it will work for my t25 with 370s and n60 maf. Is this accurate? I've heard the enthalpy tunes are pretty good ones and the price is decent. Let me know, any feedback is appreciated

[essforteen]

The tune is okay for your setup my bro was running same one on his t25

[SC_S13]

I'd honestly go with JWT and do it right the first time. or fly steve shadows over to do your standalone lol but seriously. JWT. buy a used ka ecu that's already been tuned by JWT off of someone for 250 and then spend 100 getting it reflashed. cheaper than spending 550 on a newly tuned ecu.

[gmember240]

The tune is okay for your setup my bro was running same one on his t25

ya i can get a pretty good price for it.. I'm really leaning towards it right now.

I'd honestly go with JWT and do it right the first time. or fly steve shadows over to do your standalone lol but seriously. JWT. buy a used ka ecu that's already been tuned by JWT off of someone for 250 and then spend 100 getting it reflashed. cheaper than spending 550 on a newly tuned ecu.

almost all the threads i've read when it comes to JWT vs. enthalpy: enthalpy wins. More people prefer their tune and ive looked at dyno maps of the same car on JWT and enthalpy setups and the enthalpy creates more hp/more tq. It really seems like a no brainer to me. I'm gonna do a little more reasearch tommorow and probably buy the enthalpy on tuesday. I'd like to hear some solid opinions why not to purchase an enthalpy ECU tune tho?

[FaLKoN240]

i have the stock fuel pump. I don't think a t25 would need an upgraded fuel pump that wouldn't be pushing more than 10psi. maybe I'm wrong?

as for the ghetto ass setup, it's really my first time turbocharging a car myself. I actually bought the car simply to learn more about cars themselves. The setup IMO is not that ghetto, I have the SR T25 turbo, turbo manifold, megan racing full 3" straightpipe exhaust, sr370 injectors, FMIC, n60 Maf, etc. I've seen setups A LOT more ghetto than that..


Having an upgraded fuel pump is recommended in the long haul for not fuel starving your motor. That's what I would recommend.

When I am talking about a ghetto set up, I'm talking about the fact that you don't have any tuning or anything to make it run correctly, you're using the parts on the car hoping that they'll equal each other out.

Todays Update:

I also put in new spark plugs: the others were toast and seemed like they haven't been changed in awhile.. Also messed with the MAF wiring and that didn't do anything..

i think it's pretty obvious I need a tune..

It's a good thing you pulled those injectors to replace the o rings, the car will never run right if you have inj fuel leaks.

As for the plugs, what plugs did you get?

I got BK7RE when I finally noticed my spark plugs were the reason my car ran like trash. It made a world of difference.

If that guy is telling you that Enthalpy can tune for your set up, he's lying to you.

I had an N60 MAF, 370cc inj and enthalpy does NOT tune for that. So I had to upgrade to some 450cc inj and a Z32 maf.

[gmember240]

As for the plugs, what plugs did you get?

I got BK7RE when I finally noticed my spark plugs were the reason my car ran like trash. It made a world of difference.

If that guy is telling you that Enthalpy can tune for your set up, he's lying to you.

I had an N60 MAF, 370cc inj and enthalpy does NOT tune for that. So I had to upgrade to some 450cc inj and a Z32 maf.

I got BK5s.. unfortunantly the autozone in my city only carries the NGK 5's. I even went in the back and looked myself at all the NGKs on the shelf- no 6s or 7s

Here is the link to the guy advertising that the enthalpy tune would work for a t25 with 370s and n60 maf. check it out for yourself.. if its a scam thats pretty shady..Enthalpy's making advances pretty fast, maybe they jus didnt make a tune for 370s and N60 maf when you were looking for a tune?

http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/272590-ka-t-parts-need-money-before-school-sale.html

I want to get an ECU tune before I go back to school. I'd like to take the car but I don't want to spend 200$ on a useless ECU thats not even tuned for my setup. Let me know what you guys think...

[FaLKoN240]

You should just contact Enthalpy yourself, although he is usually hard to get in touch with.

If you want to know what he will and won't tune for contact him instead of going through hearsay.

I got my tune almost a year ago now, but I doubt he's changed his mind.

[gmember240]

You should just contact Enthalpy yourself, although he is usually hard to get in touch with.

If you want to know what he will and won't tune for contact him instead of going through hearsay.

I got my tune almost a year ago now, but I doubt he's changed his mind.

I PM'ed the seller asking if he has some type of proof that his enthalpy was tuned for the setup. Will post updates as they come. Thanks for all the feedback so far

[2chuki4u]

any updates?

[gmember240]

Hey guys.. Sorry for letting the thread hang this long with no feedback. I hate looking at threads that don't inform everyone what the problem was after they figure it out so here it was.. I did end up buying an enthalpy tuned ECU and works great. Also the big major problem were the Injector O-Rings. Make sure when you replace the O-Rings replace the UPPERS AND LOWERS AT THE SAME TIME. My problem was I pulled the injectors and replaced the uppers only and put them back in and proceeded to blow the lowers.. Eventually i changed all uppers and lowers and BOOM SHE LIVES. Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it. The car's been KA-T for quite some time now and it's easy to say the problems were well worth it. I eat my friends SRs over and over again.. You know what they say about displacement

Any questions or anyone having similiar problems while going ka-t feel free to pm me and I'd love to help. Thanks goes out to Zilvia. net and KA-T.org