Toasted a cop car!

[twitchy]

So my friend drives a Mustang GT (2002) in the summer and this winter he bought himself a retired cop car. Its a 1997 crown vic, with 200 000 kms, runs great, same engine as the stang (4.6 liter V8)

in the crown vic it makes 240 horses. His car still has the holes in it where the light bar and antenna were, and you cant unlock the back doors from inside.

Of course its white, and he bought the chrome centercaps like a cruiser and tinted the windows. He even has bought himself strobes and a light bar so when he wants, he can light up like a cop

and we raced the other night

raced 5 times total. I beat him 4 times. Let me tell you that I went for a ride in the C.V. and it is no snail for a big huge car. I can see why the cops use them- it hauls some serious ass.

The first race was off the line, full stop. He killed me , I had a bad launch. Then we did 3 roll-ons, starting at 60 kms, both cars locked into second gear, and I creamed him all 3 times. By 180 KMS he was about 8 or 9 car lengths behind me.

The CV has lots of low end torque but runs out of juice in the high end, where the 240 likes to play.

The last race was off the line again, and I got the launch right, he didnt stand a chance. By 180 I could barely see him anymore!

My car is a stock 93 240SX SE, standard

Nice to know you can whip a cop cars ass!

Now if only I could beat the stang....

[misnomer]

hehe, looking at the topic i was about to come in here posting "You dumb****," but. . . yeah

Suprising, the 240 really doesn't have a great top end compared to many cars in it's class. I imagine you beat the cv 'cause it's so damn heavy (one of the very reasons they're used as cruisers). But yeah, just don't try that with the real cops, makes them very unhappy :P

That cv has automagic transmission, correct? Perhaps it hadn't adjusted to it's new driver yet (or the driver wasn't used to it). Even being automagic and a lot heavier, I find it a stretch that it can be regularly outrun by a stock 240sx. . .

[twitchy]

to be very honest, I dont know why people say that the 240 doesnt have a lot of top end-pull for a car in its class. Okay so I havent driven a prelude or whatever else is in that class, but the 240 really pulls hard over 5000 rpms in my case, not many other cars can keep up to me after second gear is done, it has a mean third gear on it I find.. Why I dont know, I have a exhaust pipe a half inch bigger than stock, but with the stock cat and stock muffler. I found that makes a huge difference in high rpm pull...but at the risk of changing the topic to exhaust...

yeah the CV was auto. I think it was adjusted as well as it would ever be.. It spent 200 000 kms as a cop car! I couldnt believe I beat it either. God bless Nissan!

[zspturbo]

thats a city cop car, not a highway car. the cop car you need to outrun is the highway cop car. the camaro SS's. hissssssss. my friend raced one once, but it wasnt from a stop if you know what I mean... got caught and tossed in the slammer for a couple months. says the chase was the most fun thing he has ever done. its a T3/T4 WRX, jsyk, and he only got caught cause of a spikestrip.

[toddnappi]

Originally posted by zspturbo
thats a city cop car, not a highway car. the cop car you need to outrun is the highway cop car. the camaro SS's. hissssssss. my friend raced one once, but it wasnt from a stop if you know what I mean... got caught and tossed in the slammer for a couple months. says the chase was the most fun thing he has ever done. its a T3/T4 WRX, jsyk, and he only got caught cause of a spikestrip.

Sounds like Need for Speed Hot Pursuit. Cool!

[RedlineRacer]

One night my friend and I were cruising in his BMW. We were speeding and a cop passes us and turned around to get us. My friend didn't need anymore speeding tickets so he punched it. He hit about 130 mph and the cop caught up to us (only because we got behind a slow ass truck and couldn't pass him cause oncoming traffic and couldn't find a road to hide on). But, it was a crown vic and it did good in top end.

[twitchy]

what kind of BMW? Im curious, cause my governor cut me off the only time I ever raced one, maybe like 190 kph. I was starting to really pull ahead too then it cut me off. Maybe your crown vic was a newer one? The new ones are lighter and more powerful. Must have been a nasty ticket

[RedlineRacer]

Its an old BMW, a 88 535 IS. I think the top out on it is around 135 mph or so. Yeah, the cop wasn't to happy when he pulled us over. The cop didn't have a radar, so he just said "why did i have to go over 130 mph" to catch up to you. "and my friend was just like "you're slow" and my friend also said he had a headlight out, which he did, and he didn't wanna get a ticket for it, so he ran. The cop gave him a reckless driving ticket.

[hookedup240]

Originally posted by RedlineRacer
Its an old BMW, a 88 535 IS. I think the top out on it is around 135 mph or so. Yeah, the cop wasn't to happy when he pulled us over. The cop didn't have a radar, so he just said "why did i have to go over 130 mph" to catch up to you. "and my friend was just like "you're slow" and my friend also said he had a headlight out, which he did, and he didn't wanna get a ticket for it, so he ran. The cop gave him a reckless driving ticket.

what is wrong with you people and your friends, this must be another trend in the fast & furious crowd that mocks the movie. Why the f uck would you run from the cops for something so stupid as a headlight, you will NEVER get away from a cop, do you know how many there are and all the different kinds of techniques they use to get you, your better off just stoping and take the damn ticket.

People that run from the cops=STUPID

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by RedlineRacer
My friend didn't need anymore speeding tickets so he punched it.

interesting mentality
haha..
good story though. :)

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by hookedup240
People that run from the cops=STUPID

You can get away from city cops really easy. All you gotta do is take back roads to wherever you're going. And when you get there.. park in the garage!
Sorry.. I've been known to fracture a law every now-and-then... but that was back when my license was on the line.
It's ok now.. I pull over and take my ticket (which I still gotta go to driver school for :(.
-Jeff

[Ricer240sx]

Originally posted by twitchy
to be very honest, I dont know why people say that the 240 doesnt have a lot of top end-pull for a car in its class. Okay so I havent driven a prelude or whatever else is in that class, but the 240 really pulls hard over 5000 rpms in my case, not many other cars can keep up to me after second gear is done, it has a mean third gear on it I find..

yeah my car has great top end, i raced a turboed Avenger last night and one i hit third i was reelin him in it it was a 1350 instead of a 1320 i think i might have had him..................

btw all i got for go fast goodies are intake and exhauset (apex-i GT-Spec u no the one that starts out ewith 3" then aftr the resanator is 4" yea, so i think its safe to say that i have apsolutly no low end :rolleyes: :D )

[hookedup240]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
You can get away from city cops really easy. All you gotta do is take back roads to wherever you're going. And when you get there.. park in the garage!
Sorry.. I've been known to fracture a law every now-and-then... but that was back when my license was on the line.
It's ok now.. I pull over and take my ticket (which I still gotta go to driver school for :(.
-Jeff

not if they caught your liscence plate # b4 they lost you.

[Foxcolt]

Stock 240's are slow. End of story.

Stock 240's make no power past 5500 rpm. if you shift after that your just making your stock slow car even slower.

Flat out running from a cop is dumb.

Almost everyone that replied to this thread.....is dumb:eek:

[RedlineRacer]

Originally posted by dousan36
interesting mentality
haha..
good story though. :)

Yeah, there was a little more to the story than I told. It would explain why he punched it. We were getting back at our school rival and didn't wanna get caught. Otherwise he would have pulled over.

[Johny5]

lol, this reminds me of a friend of mine. Keep in mine I'm nothing like this guy, at all, he's not too bright. He got gunned going 100 in his old car (sentra 4door) and as soon as he saw the cop he turned a corner and turned onto a backstreet, turned his lights off and parked. Cop drove right by him. I guess not all cops really use that good ol' common sense.

[twitchy]

Originally posted by Foxcolt
Stock 240's are slow. End of story.

Stock 240's make no power past 5500 rpm. if you shift after that your just making your stock slow car even slower.

Flat out running from a cop is dumb.

Almost everyone that replied to this thread.....is dumb:eek:

Mine makes lots of juice almost to the redline. Do you have an exhaust system? Ill bet you mine was cheaper then yours and does a better job.

It makes my car go slower to shift at 5500 RPMS

They arent slow, well at least not by what im told, but then again people like you tend to put on all those embarrassing peel-and-stick dollar store plastic body parts all over their cars, and glow lights and whatnot and that slows YOUR car down

so, no stock 240's ARENT slow
they do make power over 5500 rpms if you know what your doing and no im not dumb

(in fact im so smart I got my school to buy the car for me with scholarship money!)

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by twitchy
Mine makes lots of juice almost to the redline. Do you have an exhaust system? Ill bet you mine was cheaper then yours and does a better job.

It makes my car go slower to shift at 5500 RPMS

They arent slow, well at least not by what im told, but then again people like you tend to put on all those embarrassing peel-and-stick dollar store plastic body parts all over their cars, and glow lights and whatnot and that slows YOUR car down

so, no stock 240's ARENT slow
they do make power over 5500 rpms if you know what your doing and no im not dumb

(in fact im so smart I got my school to buy the car for me with scholarship money!)




twitchy: i dont believe butt dynos. prove you are making power beyond 5500 please (meaning almost up to redline as you say)

stock 240sx ARE slow. relatively. depending what you are comparing it to.


i have an exhaust because i am sponsored. so im sure mine is cheaper then yours too. what's your point? WHO CARES. and guess what im getting another one soon too.

[twitchy]

comparing it to anything else in a relative price range, like mine is going for 9 to 10 thousand canadian

and for that money its hard to get a faster, better handling car all around

they do exist ill admit

Good if your sponsored

I wasnt trying to be rude and I hope no one takes offense. I just dont like being called dumb.

[Dousan_PG]

i still want to see your proof you are making power beyond 5500 and "almost to redline". im very intersted since you have a custom exhaust. piping size and all would be nice to see too. didn't the exhaust cost you like 90 canadian?

i dont beleive in butt dynos!!

my car, exhaust and s-afc made 136.1rwhp and 136.9 torque on the dyno. not bad. probalby less now since i dont have my Safc in anymore. oh 100% stock KA24DE

it doesnt make much power at all beyond 5500. i shift around there.

please back up your comment somehow. you will look dumb otherwise!

edit: also dont insult foxcolt acusing him of rice mods. i read your 'gauge cluster modification' w/ the blue LEDs and red tipped pen on the needles.

im hoping you know what foxcolt's car is/has done to it......

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by twitchy

They arent slow, well at least not by what im told, but then again people like you tend to put on all those embarrassing peel-and-stick dollar store plastic body parts all over their cars, and glow lights and whatnot and that slows YOUR car down

Hey who told you about that? The guy at the shop told me those windshield washer LED's were gonna give me 15hp Proven!


so, no stock 240's ARENT slow
they do make power over 5500 rpms if you know what your doing and no im not dumb


Your right I don't know what I'm doing...what are YOU doing that makes your motor make power past 5500 rpms.. 2inch crush bent exhaust...I don't think so


(in fact im so smart I got my school to buy the car for me with scholarship money!) [/B]

Wow, didn't know they handed out scholarships in highschool
:p

Edit: thanks for the stick up dousan:D

[lbcklik1486]

Wow, you all got sum balls trying to run from the cops!:eek: Even when I was under parol for speeding, I'd never thought of running from the cops, thats ballzy.. I must grow these 20lb balls and then try to run:p

-Jay

p.s. Foxcolt knows his ****, end of story.:p

p.p.s... or is it pss? Scholorships in highschool are insane! They are everywhere, you can get some if your over 6'2'', if your asian(horray for me), even if your a male/female, it's really bizzarre.

[transient]

I disagree with people saying that shifting past 5500 just makes your car slower. If you shift at 6k, you end up at a higher RPM in the next gear. That helps.

[tchenku]

eH? it'd be easy with a sportbike + no traffic ;)

[Dousan_PG]

yeah true transient. but i think foxcolt's beef (and mine) is his butt dyno claim that he

makes lots of juice almost to the redline. Do you have an exhaust system? Ill bet you mine was cheaper then yours and does a better job.

they do make power over 5500 rpms if you know what your doing and no im not dumb

i think that was foxcolts thing w/ him. i'm still waiting for a dyno. that other thread showed he is possibly dumb because he paid 10K canadian for a 93 SE 240sx. ..

$10K Canadian is currently $6,865.67 USD

[Foxcolt]

http://plaza.ufl.edu/briand/dyno%20charts_files/240sx%20dyno%20chart.jpg


As you can see both pwr and torque fall off around 5500 rpm.

transient: I agree with what you say, back when I used to drag my car with the KAslow on nitrous I did a lot of research on finding out when to shift. Based on peoples experience I found that at the track it pays to shift in the 6's to end up in a better pwr curve for the next gear.


they do make power over 5500 rpms if you know what your doing and no im not dumb

Sorry bud it doesn't. I'll take it back...your not dumb..your just new:p

[transient]

Damn! Peak torque at 6k RPM, that's amazing. That dyno really shows the benefit of VTEC. That's quite a flat torque curve on that SI. The curve on the stock KA is pretty nasty... do you have a dyno sheet from an SR or a CA to compare with that by any chance?

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by transient
Damn! Peak torque at 6k RPM, that's amazing. That dyno really shows the benefit of VTEC. That's quite a flat torque curve on that SI. The curve on the stock KA is pretty nasty... do you have a dyno sheet from an SR or a CA to compare with that by any chance?

Sorry, not digified at least.

I just searched on FA for about 5 min and found this dyno chart. I'm sure i'd be just as easy to find an sr one.

Honda motors are the bomb, no other motors produce the pwr curves that they do:D It's just that FWD thing that bugs me:p

[twitchy]

Originally posted by dousan36
yeah true transient. but i think foxcolt's beef (and mine) is his butt dyno claim that he





i think that was foxcolts thing w/ him. i'm still waiting for a dyno. that other thread showed he is possibly dumb because he paid 10K canadian for a 93 SE 240sx. ..

$10K Canadian is currently $6,865.67 USD

Well first off let me say I didnt realize you people take things so serioously, since i didnt think it was such a huge thing to hold up a reputation here on the internet. Seems that everyone wants an answer out of me, and sorry I didnt read all your posts cause I have better things to do.

*Dousan, I paid ten thou for my 93 cause its mint and I wanted the nicest car on the lot, which I got. I had scholarship money coming out my ass for being the smartest kid in highschool, and a new restaurant all for myself. I didnt go out to buy a cheap sports car, i went out to get a NICE sportscar. I asked if I was "ripped off" later on "just because" and I also know now that thats what they tend to go for around here, as a summer car with low kms and in showroom shape/ And I have seen a nasty 240 or 2 up here. One kid laughed at me for paying ten grand for it. But his was rotten underneath, had about 3 layers of vinyl paint on the dash, windshield leds, had faded ugly paint and rips in the seats. Yeah stupid to pay 10 grand for one like that!

*I dont have squirter blinker light things if thats what you meant foxcolt (?)

*Im not in highschool so I dont even know where that came from

*I wasnt trying to "flame" buddys exhaust system. Yeah its crush bent 2.25" on my car. I took it in to an exhaust shop and asked them to do something to it to make it sound a bit more distinct and have more power. I didnt go in and say "heres the plan guys...." it was more like "heres what I want, what can you do?" They did what I asked them. It sounded nice AND DIDNT HAVE THAT 2 STROKE WEED WACKER NOISE WHICH I HATE....YEAH REAL HIGH PERFORMANCE...common have some self respect. and it DID increase power at higher RPMs. TRANSIENT said it best as well, it puts your rpms higher in the next gear. (Thank you)

*Foxcolt I like your graph but im just tellin you what it feeels like, k? I must have a magic engine or something.

*Dousan: I dont know how I can prove to you that my car makes power over 5500 RPMS. Tell me what you think of this: Ill use a stopwatch and see how long it will take me to get from say.....10 to 100 kph (6 to 60 mph) if I shift at 5500 rpm as you say, or at about 6750 like I do and compare results?? Ill tell you right now, at 6750 rpm shifting it will be faster time...by your logic it wont be. Im going to do this after dinner Ill let you know.

*the thing with the dash lights...well have you ever seen in a newer volkswagen? Thats the look I wanted. Yeah it doesnt look totally awesome but it looks good, day and night. Ill be posting some pics.

*I wish I had pics of my car and everyone elses on here to look at. (mine are coming) Maybe I didnt realize everyone would take things so seriously when i made fun of rice mods. Just that around here the people who love their cars stock go around lookin for them cheap civic bastards for races. If I offended anyone I apologize, no offense intended. Iwasnt picking a person out, just making a generalization.


Anyhow everyone I hope we can still be friends.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by twitchy
Foxcolt I like your graph but im just tellin you what it feeels like, k? I must have a magic engine or something.


dude, its called BUTT DYNO

what foxcolt posted was a REAL dyno from SCC (iirc)

butt dynos dont mean chit! real dynos=proof
no matter how you shift, no one will believe you and your butt dyno. until then it is believe you dont make significant, or much at all power 'almost to redline'

end of story! case closed! post a REAL dyno graph of your car and its power band and we'll talk. until then you arent convincing anyone!

[SilviaDriver]

heres a dyno of a stock s13 sr. not the best but u get the idea. copy url and paste and type .orig.jpg at the end for full size

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p7a6a4832ed3efbf8bababce0eb636c08/fc47809c.jpg



twitchy: dude..juss stop u dont know anything are u gonna tell us that u know where and what rpm u need for fuel n everythign too from that awsome butt dyno of urs? just stop ur making urself look bad if u already didnt enough already.

[Eternal_240Sx]

Hey silviadriver have you watched that movie "My Sassy Girlfriend"? (or girl) That movie is so sad.:(

[SilviaDriver]

yea i seen "My Sassy Girl" that movie is great. yea its sad..i gotta admit that..Great movie tho. shes in that movie along with her previous moive "Il Mare" or something which i heard was very good too.

next time PM me.

[RedlineRacer]

Originally posted by transient
Damn! Peak torque at 6k RPM, that's amazing. That dyno really shows the benefit of VTEC. That's quite a flat torque curve on that SI. The curve on the stock KA is pretty nasty... do you have a dyno sheet from an SR or a CA to compare with that by any chance?

Am I mistaken, but doesn't VTEC hit at 6k rpm? So once you go past it, the torque falls off?

[Sundi240]

Isn't a stock 240SX 0-60 like 8.6 seconds or something? If you think that's fast, then there is something wrong with you. I bet my old Prelude (1986) could beat a stock 240SX. It has 100hp and 105tq...BUT...it weighs 1005 kilograms (2200lbs). What car do you think would win?

[zspturbo]

Originally posted by RedlineRacer
Am I mistaken, but doesn't VTEC hit at 6k rpm? So once you go past it, the torque falls off?

do you know how vtec works?

[twitchy]

sorry, silviadriver, if you think i look bad

I wish I cared as much as everyone else...lets not forget this is a MESSAGE BOARD

jeez

[lbcklik1486]

Originally posted by zspturbo
do you know how vtec works?

I'm going to take a gander of what I can hopefully remember rite (had gay PSAE's 2day so I'm tired)...

Isn't it when the engine switches to a bigger set of cam lobes or something so that it is running with more fuel delivery and a larger duration to create power.

Did I hit anywhere close?:confused:

-Jay

[Nismos14]

Originally posted by twitchy
sorry, silviadriver, if you think i look bad

I wish I cared as much as everyone else...lets not forget this is a MESSAGE BOARD

jeez

if u really didnt care you wouldnt have replied, and redline is what 6500 if ur making power all the way up to their u and ur talking about transient agreeing with u, its not the same thing transient is talking about shifting at 6000 so that the engine will fall in the meaty part of the power band when u shift, if u shift at 6750 like u said u've went into the lesser end of the power band from 6 k - 6.750k and ur not going to reap any gains, now if u come up with a dyno that prooves that ur car makes more power at 6500-6750 than at 5500 k, then ur right, but till then that lil crush bent exhaust system isnt gonna get u that type of power....

[twitchy]

redline is 6900 rpm (or very close to it)

you say the car wont make power over 5500 rpms

well is there a difference between making power and accelerating? Cause heres what happened:

i used a stopwatch AND Gtech and averaged the runs out, spent most of the evening doing this. By run I mean a rolling start (eleminates the variation in launching) from 20 kmh to 120 kmh, full throttle did each run 5 times

if I shift at 5500 rpm on any run, and then shift at 6000 rpm on the same one, and shift at the redline on any run, the fastest time is always when shifting at the redline, and i mean by more than a little bit.

The difference in time averages more than a second and a half FASTER when i wind it up completely then when i cut it off at 5500 rpms.

so yeah maybe my car doesnt make peak HP up there, but for some reason its noticibely faster when I let the revs climb over the 5500 rpm mark then when i stop it there. So what, do I say "well, its way faster, but since people say its useless over 5500 RPMS I will just cut it off there..."


could it be my crush bent exhaust?


Hmmm.. now can anyone with something intelligent to say tell me what they think of that, preferably not people who just like to bitch?

Oh and by the way, Silvia Driver, I did reply, but I can assure you I do not in fact care. Heh, you think I look bad, well you made more than 10 spelling mistakes in the same sentence, by the way. Ur kewl tho.

[2FortyessX]

Originally posted by lbcklik1486
I'm going to take a gander of what I can hopefully remember rite (had gay PSAE's 2day so I'm tired)...

Isn't it when the engine switches to a bigger set of cam lobes or something so that it is running with more fuel delivery and a larger duration to create power.

Did I hit anywhere close?:confused:

-Jay your basically correct but what that means is once it is almost peaked off the first set of cams it hits another significant power rise off of the second. still underpowered though.

[Dousan_PG]

twitchy, go suck a nutsack

WE DONT LIKE BUTT DYNOS

what you feel faster doesnt mean anything to anyone.

you sound like a typical ricer. there i said it!

who cares if his spelling is wrong..oh wait, i forgot your SOO smart :rolleyes:


edit: the reason you go faster when shift higher is because as it was mentioned before when you shift you drop down into a higher in the powerband then you would if you shifted at 5500

IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE MAKING POWER BEYOND 5500!
just means when you shift, instead of drop to (let's say) 4500 you are dropping to 4900 where there is more power then 4500.

duuuuuuh

also the reason you go faster above 5500 is because you are still accellerating at the same rate, doesnt mean making power, just still going. the speed increases steadily and not the same as it would if you go from first gear from 0-30mph.

i have a RSM and i used the dyno function, not much power beyond 5500. i can test it again thsi w eekend if im bored to verifity, its been sometime since i used it last.

[sykikchimp]

Do NOT start talking about grammer errors. you've made a couple yourself. this is a MESSAGE board (as you said) and spelling has little bearing on knowledge. It's WHAT you say, not HOW you say it.


anyways.. I've run from the cops on more than one occasion. NEVER on a highway though. Only when there are backroads to shoot down where they can't see me. :) I actually talked to a couple cops at the beach once that told me they rarely chase motorcycles b/c it's to dangerous, and the driver is more likely to be killed running from them, than speeding a little. I know it's motorcycles, but you get the point.

As far as power over 5500, I've seen a lot of KA dyno's. here's my pathetic one as an example:
http://charles.sykikchimp.org/images/dynosmall.jpg
I had intake and exhaust. Run 002 was in 3rd, and 003 was in 4th. You can see in 3rd the peak is around 5500, but maintains until about 6K, although 4th really tells a more true story of what the curve looks like. Peaks at around 5200 rpm.. where do I shift? 6K.. b/c it lands me nicely in the power in the next shift.

I've seen a dyno of 162hp NA KA with boltons and stage 2 cams, and its peak power was at exactly 6K rpms. Where did he shift? almost 7K.

Take it as you will.

[Startours7]

I have spent alot of time trying to find where to shift. When I go past 6000 my valves just start to flot. I am still gaining speed but I have found that if I shift at 6,000 my next, say third gear will pull harder(more mph in less time)Then taking say second to redline, 6,200, 6,500, 6,700 whatever you get my point. I may not know what I'm talking about but I have had the car for three years and 105,000 miles(got it with 62,000). I know how it behaves by now.


92' fastback, 167,000 and I still can't spell:confused:

[misnomer]

Shift where you feel it works best, it will vary from 240 to 240.

And check the date on a thread before you reply. The commoners here don't like people dredgin up old threads. They also don't like new threads on a topic that has been talked about. . . . Take that as you please :P

[twitchy]

yeah holy jeepers this is like 2 months old!! I withdrawl I withdrawl!!

[old_s13]

Dousan, I usually agree with you but in this case, I agree with Foxcolt. Its stupid to suggest shifting around 5500k, thats just silly. I understand the powercurve tapers off at a certain point, but to bitch about that and stick focus on grammar is just silly.

Besides, he already said the biggest reason to shift later (closer toward redline or at redline) is to land in your powerband at the next gear! So, whats the point of all this jibber jabber?!?!

Plus, if we were driving in ANY type of canyon-like terrain, its very advantageous to have your RPMs high and your motor spinning.. so why suggest shifting early? It just doesnt make any sense.

Anyway, I am sure this was just a silly grammar issue and you guys have nothing better to do than argue. AHEM, shut the phuck up everyone.. thanks. :)

[mrmephistopheles]

old thread, stupid thread, dead thread.