truth in advertising issues on our beloved forum

[BustedS13]

recently there's been a few people advertising knockoffs on this forum and not fully disclosing it until after it's been pointed out by someone else. they use words instead of "knockoff" that are nowhere near "knockoff".
and when i say "knockoff", i don't mean "n1 style muffler" or "B&M style shifter". these products exist but they only blatantly rip off the design. the products i'm referring to are full-blown knockoffs, like a rolex for sale on the streets of new york. they use the original product's logo. go take a look and spot some, they're for sale right now.
i made this thread because i feel these products should be CLEARLY marked as the "fake shit" they are, or, maybe, because of legal reasons, they shouldn't be sold at all on this website.

if this thread gets out of hand or names names or any of that crap, please, mods, lock it up as fast as possible. but this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. people need to know that they're not buying the real thing BEFORE they buy it. and the seller or sellers take no steps to assure this.

[HyperTek]

wow i thought this was a Brian thread lol


i know what you mean, but i think it would be tough for them to filter out the knockoff vendors who support this forum with payments.

[Brian]

I try to not mention this stuff anymore, Hypertek. Too many people get mad over it. If you want to buy fake shit, go for it.


Busted - I agree. I know EXACTLY what you're talking about.

It's good to look out for the members of Zilvia, even if some people don't realize it.

[BustedS13]

wow i thought this was a Brian thread lol


i know what you mean, but i think it would be tough for them to filter out the knockoff vendors who support this forum with payments.

i mean, if they want to let people sell knockoffs on here, fine, but at least make them tell the customer that it isn't a genuine product.

the flea market i used to go to as a kid got raided by the police one time and they took all the fubu and tommy hilfiger shirts and foakleys.

[jamg]

I thought everyone on this forums knew what they were buying...

real or fake...

[Brian]

I thought everyone on this forums knew what they were buying...

real or fake...

You would think....

[drftwerks]

what the fuck is a variant?

[ronmcdon]

Selling knock-off's is one thing.
Throwing on the damn logo could be a more serious liability.
Not sure if it poses any legal risk for the forum to advocate something like that.

[jamg]

You would think....

lol every other thread is bashing on a shitty company.

[ZX88]

SO.......bashing on a shitty company is a good thing.

[zenki.life]

SO.......bashing on a shitty company is a good thing.

bashing on a shitty company because it is a cheap, inferior, liable to break, and will end up having the customer wasting his money is a good thing IMO

however bashing on a shitty company because it is not "name brand" but still gets the job done is not a good thing.

[palmdale_mob]

I would hate to save up to buy something that I thought was genuine then get it and its something bootleg, kind of off topic but,

Are MB Wheels considered a knockoff brand?

This is something I've always wondered, they just kind of seem like their own brand, but the weapons seem a little similar to te37's and battles look like some work wheel I just can't think of atm

[BustedS13]

bashing on a shitty company because it is a cheap, inferior, liable to break, and will end up having the customer wasting his money is a good thing IMO

however bashing on a shitty company because it is not "name brand" but still gets the job done is not a good thing.

for the record, this thread is about a SCAM ARTIST on this website trying to sell a knockoff with a name brand stamped on it, and acting innocent about the whole thing. i'm trying very hard not to use specifics or link directly to the bullshit, because he's a paid advertiser.

[Brian]

I have seen this happen with NARDI and BRIDE.

[Driftastic]

yeah words like "variant" should be replaced with "knock-offs" or "fakes"

I think its good to offer a cheap competitor but not an inferior product that soley relies on looking like a superior product

[g-via]

IMO the prices are a dead giveaway.

Prices too good to be true? More than likely it's because they are FAKE.


I have a GP Sports replica front bumper.

[zenki.life]

for the record, this thread is about a SCAM ARTIST on this website trying to sell a knockoff with a name brand stamped on it, and acting innocent about the whole thing. i'm trying very hard not to use specifics or link directly to the bullshit, because he's a paid advertiser.

no busted, i understand. i was just giving my .02 as i always do lol.

[Gnnr]

If the item is a knockoff of ABC Product it should be clearly labeled as ABC STYLE or ABC REPLICA. For example Rolex Replica watch or Rolex Style watch. It is WRONG and ILLEGAL to advertise it as a Rolex watch when it is not.

[enkei2k]

...like a rolex for sale on the streets of new york...

hey hey hey, you have a point there. they're all over in the city, i've seen them show up in train stations now too.

what the fuck is a variant?

Variant - Something that is slightly different from a type or norm

aka fancy word for 'knock-off'.

[GSXRJJordan]

Variant doesn't always mean knock off - some companies sell THEIR OWN products as 'variant' because they are blemished, slightly off spec, etc. That's like what you find at outlet stores.

Replica or Style are much more widely recognized labels for knock offs - products not made by the 'real' company, and therefore more likely to break, etc.

[jamg]

some things you can go "knock off" on.

such as an exhaust or a body kit.

other parts, no.

[drift freaq]

I would hate to save up to buy something that I thought was genuine then get it and its something bootleg, kind of off topic but,

Are MB Wheels considered a knockoff brand?

This is something I've always wondered, they just kind of seem like their own brand, but the weapons seem a little similar to te37's and battles look like some work wheel I just can't think of atm

MB Wheels are the house brand for discount tire direct. They are A-Tech who is the maker of CST wheels sold in Japan. CST was the brand for Demon Cambers. In that sense MB's could be considered a copy of another wheel yet at the same time they are not really a direct copy so its not a knock off.
They are actually a very decent quality wheel and the MB competitions are actually lighter than 57 maximums.

Fact is and I have addressed this very question before, when it comes to wheels many wheel companies copy each other. The Japanese wheel companies copy the European wheels.

The difference is a Knock off is a direct copy with out variance. It usually also has a name quite close to the original name of the wheel or manufacturer and is made to look exactly like the original item hence the term knockoff.

[BustedS13]

no busted, i understand. i was just giving my .02 as i always do lol.

<3

hey hey hey, you have a point there. they're all over in the city, i've seen them show up in train stations now too.
i know, this is my only souveneir :D

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k216/nerfdude/2009-07-16211438.jpg

it's not bad though, i've had this for about ten years and it still works like new. self winding, smooth movement. then again, i don't wear it often because it's obviously fake (why would i have a rolex)

also, i have NEVER heard "variant" used to mean "fake" until today. usually it describes an alternate color scheme on a poster or clothing and etc.
for instance, i have the blue variant of this alamo drafthouse poster:

http://blog.mondotees.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/evil-dead-2.jpg

and i have this version, but there's also a shorter run red variant:

http://blog.mondotees.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/blade-runner.jpg

the point is, it's not the right word, and it's deception.

[Future240]

Busted you raise a good point. But my question is, do the buyers actually care? If product A was the actual product and cost 900 versus product X which looked just like A and only cost 300 and served their immediate needs, which do you think they would buy?

I agree that it should be made known that certain products are knockoffs. Not only does it cheat some members who really think they are gettin the real deal, but it also makes the site itself look bad.

[S13shaka]

theres a difference between doing what we ought to do and doing what we want to do

[BustedS13]

Busted you raise a good point. But my question is, do the buyers actually care? If product A was the actual product and cost 900 versus product X which looked just like A and only cost 300 and served their immediate needs, which do you think they would buy?

I agree that it should be made known that certain products are knockoffs. Not only does it cheat some members who really think they are gettin the real deal, but it also makes the site itself look bad.

i certainly don't care. Isis products are probably fine for the most part. i had a Mishimoto radiator. whatever. but i knew they were knockoffs. they weren't, oh, i dunno, steering wheels or seats with name brands stamped on them.

[I LUV MY S13]

damn..u gotta put these ppl on the spot

[Future240]

i certainly don't care. Isis products are probably fine for the most part. i had a Mishimoto radiator. whatever. but i knew they were knockoffs. they weren't, oh, i dunno, steering wheels or seats with name brands stamped on them.

Exactly. Then the question is asked, if the knockoff works just as well as the original which to buy?

I don't know what is knock off and what isn't.

[Matej]

What is silly is that all the older ISIS parts are generic Ebay parts just sold under a 'brand name.' Exact same parts that are available for a lot cheaper on Ebay and have been for years, long before ISIS was ever a brand.
Whenever I say that, someone with an ISIS part gets mad and tells me how they would never buy an Ebay part, or boasts about how ISIS is a real brand, haha. Sorry, but you could have probably saved decent money.

However, it seems that lately ISIS has been developing their own parts, or at least parts that are exclusive to them and not sold on Ebay (although they would probably be sold on Ebay for way cheaper). Now they can slowly introduce new parts and sell off the generic old products, and no one will ever know how they got started.
But is that not how a lot of these 'real' brands started anyway?

[drift freaq]

also, i have NEVER heard "variant" used to mean "fake" until today. usually it describes an alternate color scheme on a poster or clothing and etc.
for instance, i have the blue variant of this alamo drafthouse poster:

the point is, it's not the right word, and it's deception.

Well you are correct. A variant is not a fake. Though a copy can have variance from a original design hence why it is called a copy. A fake usually means a straight up exact copy of the original right down to the name.

Knock offs like I stated before are pretty much fakes. Hence the nomenclature knock off.

I may not have said this before but a lot of people on the forum like to toss the term knock around quite liberally.

Quite often calling a non direct copy or something similar in design but not a complete copy a knock off.

Its a semantics issue. Now In the past there have been companies that have made what is pretty much a knock off of say a strut brace. Though they have no name on them. They have then marketed them to companies allowing those companies to brand them themselves. Hence you had several brands out there under different names that were actually all coming from company.

Alteeza tails for s13 are one of the more common examples of this. As are strut braces which is why I mentioned them.

As far as Isis parts I have seen them and they just look like another product being manufactured in Taiwan.

There is another brand out in the market right now that has a pretty decent name for itself and it too is manufactured in Taiwan and in part like Isis could be considered a knock off.

Now in the past certain members have spoken up quite vocally about using original brand names rather than copies. Or Knock offs depending on semantics.

The issue raised here now is, a certain retailer is being called out for supposedly selling straight up knock offs as originals based on the busteds observations and accusations.

Now we can discuss all of this till we are blue in the fact unless the particular product is named?
We have no idea if its really a knock off or fake or Busteds perception that it is. Why? Because he has been vague, by not stating clearly what product he was talking about.

So unless the product being called into question is clearly stated? We are just going to be discussing theoretical situations.

Theoretically should a person selling a copy of an original call it just that? Most people do by stating its a Greddy style or B&M style. Now when its a copy but there is no patent and its a decent quality product is there a problem?
Only when it is something like a copy that pretty much mimicks the original right down to shape and color and whatnot.

Again at that point without a patent there is no violation of law. Its just a matter of people and there sense of ethics.

Now since busted has posted a fake Rolex which he bought. He has actually canceled out the whole point of his argument since he willingly already participated in buying a knock off or fake product. Thereby supporting the very underground economy he is calling into question in his original post.

I.E. this thread is going to be a debate going nowhere started by someone who has already comprimised their own ethics to begin with.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

Now we can discuss all of this till we are blue in the fact unless the particular product is named?
We have no idea if its really a knock off or fake or Busteds perception that it is. Why? Because he has been vague, by not stating clearly what product he was talking about.


i'll call them out since no one else will:

http://zilvia.net/f/group-buys/265090-variant-bride-recaro-one-stop-shop-bucket-racing-seats-starting-400-pair.html

http://zilvia.net/f/group-buys/267274-variant-nardi-nardi-taniguchi-nob-steering-wheel.html

this shit is fake. no two ways about it. calling it a variant makes people believe that it is just about the same thing, a "factory second/reject" if you will. i've gotten over the whole knock off thing for while now, but this is just a blatant lie hoping you will be tricked. fuck that shit. if it's fake, just say it's fake. this is a 240sx site; half the people here are glad it's fake and cheap.

[drift freaq]

i'll call them out since no one else will:

http://zilvia.net/f/group-buys/265090-variant-bride-recaro-one-stop-shop-bucket-racing-seats-starting-400-pair.html

http://zilvia.net/f/group-buys/267274-variant-nardi-nardi-taniguchi-nob-steering-wheel.html

this shit is fake. no two ways about it. calling it a variant makes people believe that it is just about the same thing, a "factory second/reject" if you will. i've gotten over the whole knock off thing for while now, but this is just a blatant lie hoping you will be tricked. fuck that shit. if it's fake, just say it's fake. this is a 240sx site; half the people here are glad it's fake and cheap.

You are correct and I agree we have now reached a point of clarity. In fact they are straight up advertising fakes with out clear terminology until you read the paragraph. So indeed misleading.

Though it does not exclude busteds own Hypocrisy which had he not posted the fake Rolex would not have been exposed. LOL Busted owns himself.

Word to Busted though your point is true you are guilty of supporting the very thing your arguing against. LOL

[BustedS13]

blah blah blah

Now since busted has posted a fake Rolex which he bought. He has actually canceled out the whole point of his argument since he willingly already participated in buying a knock off or fake product. Thereby supporting the very underground economy he is calling into question in his original post.

I.E. this thread is going to be a debate going nowhere started by someone who has already comprimised their own ethics to begin with.

you're missing the point. i don't care if people make knockoff shit. i don't care if people buy knockoff shit. the PROBLEM is that someone on this forum is selling knockoff shit and passing it off as LEGIT shit. he is a scam artist and should be brought to justice.

you've missed the mark in an attempt to badmouth me, and that's fine. now can you please delete your posts so we can stay on topic? i want this thread to stay open, i don't want it to turn into a petty pissing match.

[drift freaq]

you're missing the point. i don't care if people make knockoff shit. i don't care if people buy knockoff shit. the PROBLEM is that someone on this forum is selling knockoff shit and passing it off as LEGIT shit. he is a scam artist and should be brought to justice.

you've missed the mark in an attempt to badmouth me, and that's fine. now can you please delete your posts so we can stay on topic? i want this thread to stay open, i don't want it to turn into a petty pissing match.

No I did not miss the mark. I completely saw it and in fact agreed with it. Read my previous post . Fact is you are a hypocrite and the fact is you bought a fake Rolex with the Name Rolex on it. So that is a form of false truth in advertising. It may have been a fake Rolex but it said Rolex so it was misleading aka false advertising. I
n a sense you bought illegitimate shit which could be said to be being passed off as legitimate. Which makes you guilty of supporting the very thing you are arguing against.

So basically everything I posted is pertinent to thread. I am sorry if you made yourself look guilty and bad,but you did it. I just pointed it out. Get over it.

Just because you do not like my posts, because they point out you making yourself look hypocritical, does not win you the right to disqualify them.

[ESmorz]

This one time in Florence this guy sold me a Rolex.

It was only 5 Euros. I thought it was a deal.

[Slammed180]

They way you manipulate things sometimes makes me wonder if I've been sucked into a black hole.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
I'm an idiot though.

[BustedS13]

No I did not miss the mark. I completely saw it and in fact agreed with it. Read my previous post . Fact is you are a hypocrite and the fact is you bought a fake Rolex with the Name Rolex on it. So that is a form of false truth in advertising. It may have been a fake Rolex but it said Rolex so it was misleading aka false advertising. I
n a sense you bought illegitimate shit which could be said to be being passed off as legitimate. Which makes you guilty of supporting the very thing you are arguing against.

So basically everything I posted is pertinent to thread. I am sorry if you made yourself look guilty and bad,but you did it. I just pointed it out. Get over it.

Just because you do not like my posts, because they point out you making yourself look hypocritical, does not win you the right to disqualify them.

it wasn't advertised to me as a real rolex. it was sold as a fake rolex. he didn't try to sell it to me for four grand on the street.
it's bizarre how you're not comprehending the difference.
please don't reply to this, or, if you must, pm me if you'd like further explanation. this is not the venue. thank you.

[ronmcdon]

This could be a bit of a disaster for traders of & new used parts.
what's to say that bride/recaro/nardi part wasn't a knock-off?

with rotas, it's easy to tell.
this requires far more familiarity with the original and fake.
makes it tough to buy used genuine said parts.

It might also be more difficult to sell genuine used/new parts.
How do you convince the buyer what you have isn't a fake.

I don't have a problem with knock-off parts (i.e Rotas),
but throwing on the real name, in addition, is another complication.
It would be like Rota now selling their Grids (TE knock-off),
with the fake 'Volk Racing' sticker in the front & fake authentication sticker inside the wheel, etc.
For buyers who are too cautious or lazy, they might opt out of Recaro's entirely.

That can't be fair for the original manufacturer.
Even ppl who intend to buy the real thing might be discouraged from doing so.

I'm glad Busted brought this up.
It warrants discussion for all potential traders of said item.
I also hope this doesn't have any legal liabilities for Zilvia.

[aznpoopy]

good thread. the confusion i saw in the nardi thread makes me think its fairly possible that more than one noob in the seat thread thinks he's buying legit bride seats.


Only when it is something like a copy that pretty much mimicks the original right down to shape and color and whatnot.

Again at that point without a patent there is no violation of law. Its just a matter of people and there sense of ethics.


for counterfeit / knock off items, utility patents aren't usually relevant.

other areas of IP more often come into play; namely design patent and trademark. the second of which i guarantee is violated with the two threads in question. nardi and bride both have trademark registrations with the united states patent and trademark office. as for the first, (design patent) i'm too lazy to go looking for design patents covering the nardi wheel and various bride seats. but i wouldn't be surprised if they exist.

[Ace Callaway]

We're all adults. I think we can all take responsibility into what we're buying. If someone thinks they're buying two real bride seats for $400 or a real nardi for $100, then they must be retarded. I think it's wrong for people to suggest that using words such as 'variant' makes people believe that the stuff is real. I don't think anyone has the right to make such a strong generalization like that. I've bought knock-off stuff listed under such words and I knew exactly what I was getting into. Please, don't make generalization like that because then people tend to believe that.

Everyone:

Variant/Replica/Style = Fake/knock-off

Solved problem.
Done.

[Brian]

I think a lot of people are missing Busted's point by a MILE.

He made it a point to look out for the Zilvia community as a whole.

I think it is a GOOD thing to look out for eachother. It builds us as a community (like it used to be back in the day)

[BustedS13]

i just had a Harte Attack. <3

[ixfxi]

i wonder if the knockoff nardi wheel says "made in china" as opposed to the real version saying "made in italy"

so are they knocking off the fact that they're not even proud of where the item is being knocked off in? thats fucked up. if i was chinese and i was bootlegging shit like this, i'de at least have pride and say "made in china"

support your country to the fullest, come on guys.

[ixfxi]

http://i43.tinypic.com/j8mxcx.jpg

haha nevermind... looks like they even said its made in italy. poor taniguchi, poor nardi....

[smellslikecurry]

variant nardi could mean

a different variation of a real nardi

like nardi makes different variants

deep corn, 350mm, 330mm, suede, leather...etc


bride makes different variants too

[SochBAT]

Zommunity

is now gone.

Back in my old day, whippersnappers knew their place, and always tried their best...

Now, everyone wants to be spoonfed because they paid their dues ($10).

This community has gone to shit, and I feel, it is the members that shot their own dog.

At least man up and post that shit is Fake.

Aren't there laws against this? Wait, there are. I'll just PM the seller and advise him.

---------------

Penal Code Section 350 states in part:

“(a) Any person who willfully manufactures, intentionally sells, or knowingly possesses for sale any counterfeit of a mark registered with the Secretary of State or registered on the Principal Register of the United States Patent and Trademark Office, shall, upon conviction, be punishable as follows:

(1) When the offense involves less than 1,000 of the articles described in this subdivision, with a total retail or fair market value less than that required for grand theft as defined in Section 487, and if the person is an individual, he or she shall be punished by a fine of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment; or, if the person is a corporation, by a fine of not more than one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000).

(2) When the offense involves 1,000 or more of the articles described in this subdivision, or has a total retail or fair market value equal to or greater than that required for grand theft as defined in Section 487, and if the person is an individual, he or she shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or in the state prison for 16 months, or two or three years, or by a fine not to exceed two hundred fifty thousand dollars ($250,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine; or, if the person is a corporation, by a fine not to exceed five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000).

[Jimmy Up]

I get it. I dont see how a lot of people in this thread dont.
People keep referring back to rotas, who dont pretend to be anything they are not.

Everybody that purchases rota D2's knows that they are purchasing rota D2's, they are not advertised as work wheels.

On the flipside, there are people shipping out stamped Nardi wheels and Bride Seats w/ logo and gradation complete. Kind of a joke...


I should also add that I own a carparthookup bucket seat- No logos of make-believe, just like a rota lol.

[BustedS13]

Aren't there laws against this? Wait, there are. I'll just PM the seller and advise him.

---------------

Penal Code Section 350 states in part:

“(a) Any person who willfully manufactures, intentionally sells, or knowingly possesses for sale any counterfeit of a mark registered with the Secretary of State or registered on the Principal Register of the United States Patent and Trademark Office, shall, upon conviction, be punishable as follows:

(1) When the offense involves less than 1,000 of the articles described in this subdivision, with a total retail or fair market value less than that required for grand theft as defined in Section 487, and if the person is an individual, he or she shall be punished by a fine of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment; or, if the person is a corporation, by a fine of not more than one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000).

(2) When the offense involves 1,000 or more of the articles described in this subdivision, or has a total retail or fair market value equal to or greater than that required for grand theft as defined in Section 487, and if the person is an individual, he or she shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or in the state prison for 16 months, or two or three years, or by a fine not to exceed two hundred fifty thousand dollars ($250,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine; or, if the person is a corporation, by a fine not to exceed five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000).

i find it ironic that, in this thread about counterfeit goods, shit just got real!

[!Zar!]

http://i43.tinypic.com/j8mxcx.jpg

haha nevermind... looks like they even said its made in italy. poor taniguchi, poor nardi....

The way import/export laws are setup, isn't it illegal for them to say that it is made in italy when it is in fact from china?

[thisisastickup]

I have always seen replica as being fake. I can't see how that isn't obvious.

[ronmcdon]

Well, using the logo is already serious copyright infringement.
don't see how much worse it can get stating wrong country of original manufacture

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

NOB edition Nardi. I'm on that shit.


edit: i wish there was a fake orido wheel. :/

[nisco]

i'll call them out since no one else will:

http://zilvia.net/f/group-buys/265090-variant-bride-recaro-one-stop-shop-bucket-racing-seats-starting-400-pair.html

this shit is fake. no two ways about it. calling it a variant makes people believe that it is just about the same thing, a "factory second/reject" if you will. i've gotten over the whole knock off thing for while now, but this is just a blatant lie hoping you will be tricked. fuck that shit. if it's fake, just say it's fake. this is a 240sx site; half the people here are glad it's fake and cheap.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd213/chisanatenshi/Random/ruci8k.jpg
that would have given it off that it was fake. I don't think BRIDE would have made that mistake.
Only people in the factory who were copying a BRIDE seat would.

[ronmcdon]

All things considered, the replicas are very detail orientated.
If the only tell-tale sign is a slight slant in one of the Japanese characters on the sticker, then that speaks of it's workmanship
(not all fake Rolex's are the same either)

I've heard a lot of the knock-off's are produced by the same factory that manufactures the parts for the original merchant.
Factory takes the blueprint, & sells their own stuff through another distributor.
From what I've heard in hearsay, that is not uncommon among factories in China.

[Matej]

Was there not a thread on the Bride controversy on here?

Not sure if it has anything to do with this thread, but from what I remember, the company that was making some of the models for Bride in China or Taiwan started selling them on their own, because Bride never actually trademarked the name, or something along those lines.

Now there are Chinese (or Taiwanese?) Bride seats, and Bride Japan seats. The ones that are not made by Bride Japan may not necessarily be terrible, after all they are the same seats that used to be sold as real Bride seats. That is of course unless they have come out with their own models since, or let the quality slip.

Anyway, I know I have seen a picture guide somewhere on how to tell the 'fake' Bride and Bride Japan seats apart.

[Future240]

I have always seen replica as being fake. I can't see how that isn't obvious.

That is obvious, however to the uneducated, such as myself, some people might actually think they are buying things that are not knock offs.

Until busted made this thread I never knew the "Bride" seats were not Bride. Someone else let me know authentic Bride seats are close to 1k.

[Nismology]

WTF I thought I just purchased Zilvia for $52.03!!
It turned out to be some crappy site called son240sx.ca
/suicide
/thread

[CrazyIvan]

This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever read in my life.
I'd say most of the merchandise sold here on zilvia is fake. But who gives a damn?
If you do, just buy the real deal.

[Brian]

SOME PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IT IS FAKE. THE THREAD TITLE AND DESCRIPTIONS ARE MISLEADING.

Is it THAT fucking hard to understand?

[enkei2k]

Was there not a thread on the Bride controversy on here?

Not sure if it has anything to do with this thread, but from what I remember, the company that was making some of the models for Bride in China or Taiwan started selling them on their own, because Bride never actually trademarked the name, or something along those lines.

Now there are Chinese (or Taiwanese?) Bride seats, and Bride Japan seats. The ones that are not made by Bride Japan may not necessarily be terrible, after all they are the same seats that used to be sold as real Bride seats. That is of course unless they have come out with their own models since, or let the quality slip.

Anyway, I know I have seen a picture guide somewhere on how to tell the 'fake' Bride and Bride Japan seats apart.

http://zilvia.net/f/chat/252551-how-check-fake-authentic-bride-seat.html

is this it?

[BustedS13]

SOME PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IT IS FAKE. THE THREAD TITLE AND DESCRIPTIONS ARE MISLEADING.

Is it THAT fucking hard to understand?

apparently, yes. everyone should just know the street price of a Nardi steering wheel, brah. if it's less, then you know.

[ronmcdon]

Was there not a thread on the Bride controversy on here?

Not sure if it has anything to do with this thread, but from what I remember, the company that was making some of the models for Bride in China or Taiwan started selling them on their own, because Bride never actually trademarked the name, or something along those lines.

Now there are Chinese (or Taiwanese?) Bride seats, and Bride Japan seats. The ones that are not made by Bride Japan may not necessarily be terrible, after all they are the same seats that used to be sold as real Bride seats. That is of course unless they have come out with their own models since, or let the quality slip.

Anyway, I know I have seen a picture guide somewhere on how to tell the 'fake' Bride and Bride Japan seats apart.

Vendor is also selling 'Variant' Recaros (in addition to Brides).
I find it unlikely that the very same mishap also occurred with Recaro.
What are the chances that Recaro also forgot to register it's trademark?

Now if it was just Bride replicas that are called into question, and they were the direct result of Bride Japan's screw up (as you and the other thread mentioned), then the seats might actually be perfectly legit.
It would probably be in the distributor's interest to advertise as such.
But the fact that they're also selling Recaros, leads me to believe otherwise.

Maybe there is a legit knock-off merchant/distributor somewhere.
Hard to say if the merchant on Zilvia really is selling from the legit factory with Bride's blueprint, or just some other 'run of the mill' lesser quality factory with a different mold.

[BustedS13]

think i'd rather just buy a Kirkey for the same price rather than chance it.

[mishimoto]

i certainly don't care. Isis products are probably fine for the most part. i had a Mishimoto radiator. whatever. but i knew they were knockoffs. they weren't, oh, i dunno, steering wheels or seats with name brands stamped on them.


How do you know that we are "knockoffs"? We do R&D on all of our parts, we don't just stamp our name on another brand's product.

[ixfxi]

How do you know that we are "knockoffs"? We do R&D on all of our parts, we don't just stamp our name on another brand's product.

i dont know much about mishimoto.... but i wouldnt go so far as to saying they are a knockoff company.

sure, they make ugly halloween-theme colored cars, but as for copying? i wouldnt say that.

[BustedS13]

How do you know that we are "knockoffs"? We do R&D on all of our parts, we don't just stamp our name on another brand's product.

general consensus is that it's a clone of the koyo, i've always thought. at any rate it's a great radiator, maybe i misspoke.

[allntrlundrgrnd]

ixfxi your posts are making me lol

I get the point, and fully agree. I reported the steering wheel thread and posted that OP should edit to say REPLICA. I dont think he has, and thats the problem imo

[HyperTek]

its a tough world we live in today... everyone fighting to cut corners and make a buck over the next man. The ones loosing are the originators and the true enthusiests who take pride and enjoy these products.

Even the quality of good old 240sx car meets has gone down imo.

Thats what happens when something becomes popular.. remember when Razor scooters came out, they where the rage, and expensive, than they got knocked off and all the kids had it. I was never into them, but they had those all over swap meets lol.

remember we used to hate on APC and Tenzo R and all those brands, ironically i dont think their products where knock offs of anything.. tenzo r now has some pretty decent looking rwd sized wheels now

[ixfxi]

remember we used to hate on APC and Tenzo R and all those brands, ironically i dont think their products where knock offs of anything.. tenzo r now has some pretty decent looking rwd sized wheels now

oh no, i still fucking hate apc, tenzo, etc....


apc is dead, and tenzo is still shit. just because they can change a size or offset, doesnt mean that theyve started to make quality product

[zenki.life]

oh no, i still fucking hate apc, tenzo, etc....


apc is dead, and tenzo is still shit. just because they can change a size or offset, doesnt mean that theyve started to make quality product

ahahaha. and your STILL fucking hilarious

[VROOOM]

Tenzo R made copies of SSR Schumakers.

[aznpoopy]

Well, using the logo is already serious copyright infringement.
don't see how much worse it can get stating wrong country of original manufacture

trademark. not copyright.
copyright protects artistic expression.
trademark protects marks used in business to identify businesses and goods.

from past experience, i know the federal trade commission has set standards for products that want to claim "made in the USA." i don't know about US sold products that lie about "made in" status for foreign countries.

[jamg]

How do you know that we are "knockoffs"? We do R&D on all of our parts, we don't just stamp our name on another brand's product.

I'm sure you do put effort in your products.

but years ago, when they first came on ebay, everyone would act the same like how they have acted with Megan Racing products, and currently ISIS.

they may (or may not) be good products, but until people enough people have bought and used these products, the name will still be knocked around.

like how a LOT of people use megan racing coilovers....back then everyone hated on them, now they are said to be good for beginners.

[ronmcdon]

trademark. not copyright.
copyright protects artistic expression.
trademark protects marks used in business to identify businesses and goods.

from past experience, i know the federal trade commission has set standards for products that want to claim "made in the USA." i don't know about US sold products that lie about "made in" status for foreign countries.

Got it.
Trademark refers to misuse of logo (assuming it's trade-marked).
Thanks for the clarification!

Interesting Wiki read that further elaborates the concept:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_infringement

Interestingly, it seems that the Trademark Infringement is enforced differently here in the US, than it is abroad.
Therefore, it seems plausible that just because fake Brides may be deemed legit in parts of Asia, it does NOT also mean it is legit here.
Would be interesting to see how this incident develops legally (or not).

Taken from Wiki;

Trademark infringement is a violation of the exclusive rights attaching to a trademark without the authorization of the trademark owner or any licensees (provided that such authorization was within the scope of the license). Infringement may occur when one party, the "infringer", uses a trademark which is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark owned by another party, in relation to products or services which are identical or similar to the products or services which the registration covers. An owner of a trademark may commence legal proceedings against a party which infringes its registration.

In many countries, but not in the United States, which recognizes common law trademark rights, a trademark which is not registered cannot be "infringed" as such, and the trademark owner cannot bring infringement proceedings. Instead, the owner may be able to commence proceedings under the common law for passing off or misrepresentation, or under legislation which prohibits unfair business practices. In some jurisdictions, infringement of trade dress may also be actionable.

Where the respective marks or products or services are not identical, similarity will generally be assessed by reference to whether there is a likelihood of confusion that consumers will believe the products or services originated from the trademark owner.

Likelihood of confusion is not necessarily measured by actual consumer confusion, though normally one of the elements, but by a series of criteria Courts have established. A prime example is the test announced by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in AMF, Inc v Sleekcraft Boats, 599 F.2d 341 (C.A.9) 1979. The Court there announced eight specific elements to measure likelihood of confusion:

1. Strength of the mark
2. Proximity of the goods
3. Similarity of the marks
4. Evidence of actual confusion
5. Marketing channels used
6. Type of goods and the degree of care likely to be exercised by the purchaser
7. Defendant's intent in selecting the mark
8. Likelihood of expansion of the product lines [1]

[BustedS13]

looks like we won the battle, gentlemen. sort of.

but the war rages on

[CrimsonRockett]

like how a LOT of people use megan racing coilovers....back then everyone hated on them, now they are said to be good for beginners.

A LOT of cheap people use Megan coilovers.

Yeah, they're only good for "beginners" (aka 18-20 year old broke ass kids wanting to be super slammed and be cheap as fuck).

So, yes. They're good for beginners and people who only care about the appearance of their car.

[ronmcdon]

meh, they're not exactly affordable either.
set of ots koni/gc's will cost less.

but to each and their own.
whatever makes the buyer happy i guess, whatever the objectives might be.