Question to the Demographic! - What is one thing you wish your shop did, or could do

[steve shadows]

I wanted to pose a question.

I have been racking my brains over new and innovative ways to serve this inudstry, before throwing in the towel

I have thought about parts, service, or both.

I have built my resume in the niche market of SR20s and drifter car setups since doing my first motorswap for money for a friend of mine as a cusotmer in 2002.

From Motor Swaps, to turbo upgrades to Custom Turbo builds to teaching myself the basics of fluid dynamics and engineering and then finally culminating and expertise in tuning japanese cars on a brake eddy dyno.

I have come to a place in the hobby, as many of you will or have where you decide to take a break from being the guy in the seat and end up on the sidelines or as a manager of sorts.

So I wanted to pose the question to my most valued resource: my customers, friends and fellow car enthusiasts.

What is ONE thing that you wish your local shop, or if you trusted a shop to do WOULD or SHOULD do and HOW MUCH would you pay for them to it.

Name the one thing you wish you could have to NOT worry about doing yourself and how much you would be willing to pay for it.

I have hope that there is still something out there that further expertise could be developed and that one more thing that could be a headache or a nightmare in our hobbies could be handled.

When I was growing up and building Nissans I cannot explain how much money I wasted, lost or got ripped off as a young teen and even early twenties from not knowing what I wanted out of the hobby or where to spend my money etc. Most importantly not knowing someone/shop I could TRULY trust.

I see if SOO often lately, big big name shops completely ripping off people or not providing the service that they should or could be or trying to do too many things at once and not becoming the best at one thing.

I see this also with fellow enthusiasts and their cars.

So throw it out there. I want to hear it from you guys. I'm curious and havent really posted anything interesting in a while, staying in tonight and just surfing the web

So let's have a good conversation!

Template:

Service to be Offered:
Price you would pay:
Timeline you would want it completed:
Goal with your car: (grip, drag, drift)

[jamg]

ls1 under $5k :)

[steve shadows]

Nice! nice way to start off.

[ronmcdon]

flexible hours would be nice.
there's not a lot of shops open till late & on the weekends.
maybe you already do that, idk.

a good alignment/suspension shop that's familiar with road race & autoX setups.
complete with corner balancing.
less than $200 for full alignment w/ corner balancing would be nice

Maybe do a full suspension tuning setup (equivelent to what RobiSpec does for evo's/Sti's.
pricing could vary depending on how elaborate the work would be.

[handinpants]

someone to tune a powerfc at $60 an hour, and a realistic total tuning time, cause i've never seen someone tune a power fc for 10 hours straight......

Also Los Angeles, needs a bikini car wash!

[sliddinsil8o]

i agree with handinpants...only thing that really popped into mind after read was "tuning"; something reasonable in price and done in a timely manner.

[brndck]

change my oil without stripping out a cast aluminum drainpan, even after i told everyone in the damn shop "do not reinstall the plug, I will do it before you refill it, its a cast pan and i don't want it stripped"

actually, i agree with what ronmcdon said about suspension tuning. it seems like most 240 owners only set up their stuff for wheel gap/hella flush fitment with no real consideration to how it performs.

[drift freaq]

Suspension tuning is probably a pretty damn good idea. Its kind of a black art. Everyone talks about it but not a lot of people actually do it. The most educated ones are the road racing people and or the few of us that really manage to give a damn. Like ronmcdon and brndck said.
Most people know nothing about making their car handle properly with proper settings. They just buy off the shelf garbage coils and slam the car for flushness. The good think about suspension tuning is its something you can readily transfer the knowledge of over to other cars. Thereby not pigeon holing yourself.

Honestly I would be looking towards working with newer Nissans like 350's and G35's. The 240 owners market is a pretty lost situation. Most of them are not willing to do the right thing or pay to have the right thing done. They want quick fixs for cheap.

I know that sounds bad but its pretty much the truth.

You have a grip on engine tuning already and fact is again it should be something you should be moving upstream with.

[helikz]

Suspension tuning is probably a pretty damn good idea. Its kind of a black art. Everyone talks about it but not a lot of people actually do it. The most educated ones are the road racing people and or the few of us that really manage to give a damn. Like ronmcdon and brndck said.
Most people know nothing about making their car handle properly with proper settings. They just buy off the shelf garbage coils and slam the car for flushness. The good think about suspension tuning is its something you can readily transfer the knowledge of over to other cars. Thereby not pigeon holing yourself.

Honestly I would be looking towards working with newer Nissans like 350's and G35's. The 240 owners market is a pretty lost situation. Most of them are not willing to do the right thing or pay to have the right thing done. They want quick fixs for cheap.

I know that sounds bad but its pretty much the truth.

You have a grip on engine tuning already and fact is again it should be something you should be moving upstream with.

QFT.

but yes, suspension tuning, corner balancing, chassis tuning are all peices of the puzzle when you're talking about real performance, and not just looking good and making good numbers on a dyno.

The point about quick inexpensive fixes is also sadly true. If a company came to these forums and said they were going to start marketing a turbo upgrade kit for 9k, they'd be laughed at, while companies are doing just that on the newer chassis.

I never thought I'd say this, but the honda camp and the s-chassis camp are starting to get dangerously close together, where before they couldn't be further from similar.

[Def]

I never thought I'd say this, but the honda camp and the s-chassis camp are starting to get dangerously close together, where before they couldn't be further from similar.

Starting to get close together? I'd say they've been essentially identical for the past couple of years. It's sad, but 90%+ of this forum doesn't really give a crap about having a car that's either fast, handles well, or stops well. They just want to look cool or maybe get some kind of "rare" Aero.

Yes, that's also part of the drifting scene, but it's also a big part of the Honda scene.

[Ragnarok043]

how about bushings with grease fittings.

[helikz]

Starting to get close together? I'd say they've been essentially identical for the past couple of years. It's sad, but 90%+ of this forum doesn't really give a crap about having a car that's either fast, handles well, or stops well. They just want to look cool or maybe get some kind of "rare" Aero.

Yes, that's also part of the drifting scene, but it's also a big part of the Honda scene.

yeah, I'm just an optimist, thinking that the nissan market wouldn't degrade the way it has.

[brndck]

They just want to look cool or maybe get knockoffs of some kind of "rare" Aero.


fixed for you.

[sbanzer123]

maybe offer a class on efi tuning. i know that i would love to be able to tune my own car instead of having somebody else doing it.

[racepar1]

Suspension "tuning" with some actual engineering and track experience behind it would possibly help a lot of people, but I doubt anyone would really be willing to pay to do it right. This isn't something that can be done for a couple hundred bucks. Simply turning knobs on your coilovers and adjusting your alignment isn't enough to justify doing it at all. ANYONE can do that.

[handinpants]

i'l spend money for my porsche turbo, but not for my 240, two different class ranges, i've spent alot in my 240, and i enjoy driving it more than the porsche !

[ronmcdon]

Suspension tuning is probably a pretty damn good idea. Its kind of a black art. Everyone talks about it but not a lot of people actually do it. The most educated ones are the road racing people and or the few of us that really manage to give a damn. Like ronmcdon and brndck said.
Most people know nothing about making their car handle properly with proper settings. They just buy off the shelf garbage coils and slam the car for flushness. The good think about suspension tuning is its something you can readily transfer the knowledge of over to other cars. Thereby not pigeon holing yourself.

Honestly I would be looking towards working with newer Nissans like 350's and G35's. The 240 owners market is a pretty lost situation. Most of them are not willing to do the right thing or pay to have the right thing done. They want quick fixs for cheap.

I know that sounds bad but its pretty much the truth.

You have a grip on engine tuning already and fact is again it should be something you should be moving upstream with.

Idk if whether being cheap is the real concern, so much as just choosing the right parts for the correct application.

lot of the more affordable coil-overs out there like the Megans aren't cheap,
a more tried & proven setup of ots konis/Ground Control's w/ custom rates seldom cost over $700.

I've tried to replace a lot of suspension parts, play with different alignment settings, use decent tires, do autoX events to try out what I have.
Till this day, I'm not satisfied with the way my car handles at the autoX, much less feel comfy to take it to even a smaller track like Streets.

When you check Honda-Tech, under the "Road Race & AutoX" forums,
there's a huge resource for ppl experimenting with different setups.
You can easily find out exactly the parts & alignment settings needed to build a forgiving & well performing track-ready civic.
I did just that 2-3 yrs ago.
Had an EG done for about 12k, and brought it right out to Streets of Willow.
Didn't even have time to bring it to a proper alignment shop.
Ran about 1:38:xx CW, first event, which to me is great (my evo did 1:36:xx, first event).
Never once did the car even spin out, and overall was consistent.

It's not that the issue isn't that there's aren't enough S-chassis owners who aren't willing to spend money.
There just isn't a lot of them who autoX/road-race.
Also, info on that particular niche is relatively scarce (compared to say honda or miata owners at least).

In Socal, I can think of 2 places that probably are very knowledgeable with suspension tuning w/ regard to autoX & roadrace.
West End in the Torrance area, and Hiro's in OC.
West End, although is great at what they do, have limited hours and can be difficult to arrange something with them (2-4 weeks wait after you make an appt).
Hiro's is a bit inconvenient for those of us in Los Angeles, plus the fact that they're only open on week-days.
As far as I know, both places are in good demand.
Would be nice if there were more shops like this.

IIRC, Steve is somewhere in the Los Angeles area.
To bring to car in to have your engine tuned, susp & alignment set-up would be really convenient.

[ronmcdon]

Starting to get close together? I'd say they've been essentially identical for the past couple of years. It's sad, but 90%+ of this forum doesn't really give a crap about having a car that's either fast, handles well, or stops well. They just want to look cool or maybe get some kind of "rare" Aero.

Yes, that's also part of the drifting scene, but it's also a big part of the Honda scene.

There's a HUGE amount of diversity within the Honda crowd.
While they surely have their share of poseurs, there's also a big portion who are dedicated purely to track events.

I think Honda owners in general just get a bad rep from ricers and JDM poseurs.
Many apparently are also willing to spend big bucks, regardless of their objective.
It's no coincidence that their after-market is so comprehensive.

If I can ever discover the 240sx equivelent to Honda-Tech's roadrace/autoX sub-forum, that will truly make my day;
http://honda-tech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19

[racepar1]

i'l spend money for my porsche turbo, but not for my 240, two different class ranges, i've spent alot in my 240, and i enjoy driving it more than the porsche !

That's just a dumb attitude. Just because a car is less expensive or exotic does not mean that it isn't worth spending money or time on. I personally enjoy the challenge of working with an underrated and underappreciated car (in road racing/trackday circles). IMO NOBODY has TRULY developed s-chasis cars to their full potential.

If I can ever discover the 240sx equivelent to Honda-Tech's roadrace/autoX sub-forum, that will truly make my day;
Road Racing/Autocross - Honda-Tech (http://honda-tech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19)

I got ya man, PMing you right now.

[drift freaq]

Idk if whether being cheap is the real concern, so much as just choosing the right parts for the correct application.

lot of the more affordable coil-overs out there like the Megans aren't cheap,
a more tried & proven setup of ots konis/Ground Control's w/ custom rates seldom cost over $700.

I've tried to replace a lot of suspension parts, play with different alignment settings, use decent tires, do autoX events to try out what I have.
Till this day, I'm not satisfied with the way my car handles at the autoX, much less feel comfy to take it to even a smaller track like Streets.

When you check Honda-Tech, under the "Road Race & AutoX" forums,
there's a huge resource for ppl experimenting with different setups.
You can easily find out exactly the parts & alignment settings needed to build a forgiving & well performing track-ready civic.
I did just that 2-3 yrs ago.
Had an EG done for about 12k, and brought it right out to Streets of Willow.
Didn't even have time to bring it to a proper alignment shop.
Ran about 1:38:xx CW, first event, which to me is great (my evo did 1:36:xx, first event).
Never once did the car even spin out, and overall was consistent.

It's not that the issue isn't that there's aren't enough S-chassis owners who aren't willing to spend money.
There just isn't a lot of them who autoX/road-race.
Also, info on that particular niche is relatively scarce (compared to say honda or miata owners at least).

In Socal, I can think of 2 places that probably are very knowledgeable with suspension tuning w/ regard to autoX & roadrace.
West End in the Torrance area, and Hiro's in OC.
West End, although is great at what they do, have limited hours and can be difficult to arrange something with them (2-4 weeks wait after you make an appt).
Hiro's is a bit inconvenient for those of us in Los Angeles, plus the fact that they're only open on week-days.
As far as I know, both places are in good demand.
Would be nice if there were more shops like this.

IIRC, Steve is somewhere in the Los Angeles area.
To bring to car in to have your engine tuned, susp & alignment set-up would be really convenient.

Though you miss something critically important here in your own statement. Fact is , there is a lot about Honda suspension tuning on Honda tech because back in the early to mid 90's, when Nissan pretty much dumped road racing support altogether, Honda embraced it.

Honda supported factory teams, Honda supported and encouraged Comptech a former Nissan engine builder and tuning house to embrace Acura.

In fact it made Comptech a huge name in the Honda world and made them very wealthy and successful.

Honda supported F1 and dumped tons of cash into their efforts. Fact is they encouraged Americans in SCCA to take Honda's racing. While there were some people like Bob Leitzinger racing 240sx's and Bob Sharp in General 240sx's were not exactly a richly campaigned car like Honda's were. While Honda's were FWD grocery getters turned into track whores that did handle, Nissan's heyday in Sports car racing here in the states was passing. Little aftermarket support left a vacuum for suspension tuning knowledge and or hardware for 240's.

Fast forward to today. The main thing 240's are known for is drifting and no matter how much some people like the mods on this forum don't like it. Its a fact.
Fact is in Japan the roads are smoother. Regardless of what a certain Honda owning member on here from Okinawa would have us all believe. Due to his limited observations of Japanese roads being based on Okinawa. LOL

In that sense they were able to run coilovers that could be extremely stiff to achieve the result while not being ideal in dampening which would bother a road racer.

Funny thing is even the Japanese drifters said the Americans do not focus enough on suspension and usually focus more on power. These are Japanese drifters saying this! LOL Most of whom have backgrounds in JGTC besides just drifting.

Now given all of this, yes you would think there would be a plethora of people willing to tune their suspension right and not just for the sake of drifting.

Ah ya that was true about 6 years ago. Now? Cheap kids who don't give a crap. They want the car to be stiff enough to slide it and that is all they are concerned about. They think that if you have a open diff you cannot drift. LOL That in and of itself tells you a lot.

Seriously, the small amount of people t that are interested in suspension tuning are doing it themselves already.

In other words, we are back at my statement of, "their is no money in trying to tune 240 suspensions for people for money".
Its a fact and now matter how much you want to believe otherwise, its true.

Now 350Z's G35's 370's G37's sure. The people have more money and are willing to spend it.

[helikz]

Though you miss something critically important here in your own statement. Fact is , there is a lot about Honda suspension tuning on Honda tech because back in the early to mid 90's, when Nissan pretty much dumped road racing support altogether, Honda embraced it.

Honda supported factory teams, Honda supported and encouraged Comptech a former Nissan engine builder and tuning house to embrace Acura.

In fact it made Comptech a huge name in the Honda world and made them very wealthy and successful.

Honda supported F1 and dumped tons of cash into their efforts. Fact is they encouraged Americans in SCCA to take Honda's racing. While there were some people like Bob Leitzinger racing 240sx's and Bob Sharp in General 240sx's were not exactly a richly campaigned car like Honda's were. While Honda's were FWD grocery getters turned into track whores that did handle, Nissan's heyday in Sports car racing here in the states was passing. Little aftermarket support left a vacuum for suspension tuning knowledge and or hardware for 240's.

Fast forward to today. The main thing 240's are known for is drifting and no matter how much some people like the mods on this forum don't like it. Its a fact.
Fact is in Japan the roads are smoother. Regardless of what a certain Honda owning member on here from Okinawa would have us all believe. Due to his limited observations of Japanese roads being based on Okinawa. LOL

In that sense they were able to run coilovers that could be extremely stiff to achieve the result while not being ideal in dampening which would bother a road racer.

Funny thing is even the the Japanese drifters said the Americans do not focus enough on suspension and usually focus more on power.

Now given all of this, yes you would think there would be a plethora of people willing to tune their suspension right and not just for the sake of drifting.

Ah ya that was true about 6 years ago. Now? Cheap kids who don't give a crap. Seriously,the ones that do and the small amount that are interested are doing it themselves already.

In other words, we are back at my statement of, "their is no money in trying to tune 240 suspensions for people for money".
Its a fact and now matter how much you want to believe otherwise its true.

Now 350Z's G35's 370's G37's sure. The people have more money and are willing to spend it.

as usual, the freaq's spot on on these points.

the major thing is, if you're willing to spend the money, and really learn to drive the car at it's limits, you could make an s chassis do amazing things.

Most people aren't willing to spend the money, and for the most part, they relegate the s to drifting duty.

Look at the JGTC applications of the Supra and RX7, they both have fundamentally the same layout and proved extremely strong. From a developmental perspective, I think the Skyline's status actually pidgeonholed the S-chassis into an inferior slot, even though it has a lot of potential.

I agree that there's unlikely to be a business in chassis tuning for the silvia/240sx, but the overall lack of companies who offer those services opens up that opportunity if you're willing to develop the skill on a broad base, not simply specializing in 1 manufacturer or specific model.

I have to point at Top Secret as an example here as I'm a raging homer for their work, while they're most known for their power production, they offer full scale, TOTAL tuning solutions. which is rare.

By my estimation, 8 in every 10 import shops could be hosted on the internet or work out of a strip mall and you probably would give a shit less. Of the two that remain, 1 may have lifts and a dyno, but only 1 will be a total tuning solution. AMS, COBB, and Mazworx are the high end examples here.

Ptuning is moving towards that 1 stop solution benchmark, but don't have the machining facilities yet IIRC, but their redline time attack program is pushing them in that direction.




quick edit: not showing any shops hate, and i'm just going from the top of my head with examples.

[racepar1]

Nissan DID push motorsports, just in different places. While honda was pushing grassroots production classes from the mid-eighties to the mid-nineties nissan had bigger fish to fry. Nissan was knee deep in the IMSA series and most of their racing support went to the GT (both grassroots and professional) or IMSA GTP. In SCCA GT classes the nissan ka24e is THE engine and has been for YEARS. Unfortuanetly though that means that they weren't very concerned with developing the suspension on their production cars too much because none of their race cars were in fact production cars. In the mid-nineties the drift scene started to pop-up and the s-13 was relegated to the status of probably the single best drifting platform ever. That image however drove those that were truly capable of developing the nissan suspension further from the cars.

[jspecusa]

S-Chasis is pretty much for the following people.
1. people who want to learn how to work on cars
2. honda people who want to move on from loud rice rockets, some went back to honda after S-Chasis ie S2000 or TSX.
3. people who care more about the "jdm" look then what the car can do.
it's not a good market for a shop to focus on, I would suggest you move onto other market if you want to make money.
for example SP Engineering move onto Porsche, Lambo, bmw, and audi etc..
good luck

[GSXRJJordan]

...less than $200 for full alignment w/ corner balancing would be nice

Haha, real race shops now are charging ~$250 for just the alignment with driver weight compensation, and another $200 or so for corner balance. - and it takes hours!! $200 just doesn't seem reasonable.

how about bushings with grease fittings.

For what? Most everything can be replaced with heims or solid bushings, and none of those need grease fittings... you're talking about poly bushings with zerk fittings?

[racepar1]

Haha, real race shops now are charging ~$250 for just the alignment with driver weight compensation, and another $200 or so for corner balance. - and it takes hours!! $200 just doesn't seem reasonable.

What race shop are you going to? Last time I went to Darrin @ West End I think it was $220-$250 out the door, for corner weight AND alignment. It's been WAY too long since I have gone to Darrin.

[jorge1190]

I think if you offered a good price to install subframe bushings more people would do it as it seems people are afraid to drop their subframe. Apart from being a total pain.

[brndck]

/\/\ or maybe have cores in stock and an exchange program? except that no one in their right mind would want to ship a rear subframe.

[drift freaq]

Nissan DID push motorsports, just in different places. While honda was pushing grassroots production classes from the mid-eighties to the mid-nineties nissan had bigger fish to fry. Nissan was knee deep in the IMSA series and most of their racing support went to the GT (both grassroots and professional) or IMSA GTP. In SCCA GT classes the nissan ka24e is THE engine and has been for YEARS. Unfortuanetly though that means that they weren't very concerned with developing the suspension on their production cars too much because none of their race cars were in fact production cars. In the mid-nineties the drift scene started to pop-up and the s-13 was relegated to the status of probably the single best drifting platform ever. That image however drove those that were truly capable of developing the nissan suspension further from the cars.

Yes you are correct about this Aron, but like I pointed out. Nissan dropped its major IMSA support right about the time the 240sx hit the market.

Trust me I was a big fan of Nissans legendary SCCA and IMSA efforts. At one point the one more races than any other Japanese brand. Its kinda of sad that they managed to lose that to Mazda.

Nissan completely dumped efforts to support racing in the 90's and the proof in that was dropping out of the IMSA GTP series after winning it so successfully and letting Toyota take it. Later Toyota would give it up to Mazda.

It was crazy back in the late 70's and 80's when damn near every damn dealership had some kind of racing effort going. Performance Nissan was known even back then for winning Z cars.

You had Electramotive in El Segundo, Bob Leitzinger, BoB Sharp, Paul Newman, BRE, etc... the list was huge. Nissan abandon all this in the 90's and its my belief it affected their sales as well. They sold a lot of cars in the 70's and 80's based on the Datsun and then Nissan Motorsports successes.

Lets just say the bad management in the 90's that drove the company to near bankruptcy was the same management that took them away from corporate backing of road racing. About the only thing they did stick with was championship offroad truck racing.

Once again and will reiterate , like I had said and Sam (Jspec) has said as well. There is no money in selling suspension tuning services for 240sx's. Now other cars and Newer Nissans sure.

Like Sam said don't focus on one car or model.

[flip3d]

I'd love some reliable engine tuning and someone to dial in my suspension correctly.

[steve shadows]

someone to tune a powerfc at $60 an hour, and a realistic total tuning time, cause i've never seen someone tune a power fc for 10 hours straight......

Also Los Angeles, needs a bikini car wash!

Yeah 60 dollars an hour you are not gonig to be getting a very nice dyno

Unless the dyno is already paid off

For example I charge (if you break it down) 120 bucks an hour

or 500-600 dollars flat rate for 4-6 hours of tuning.

Most of this money goes to fund the dyno owners cost for rental (or at least half) nicer the dyno and the better the tuner the more the money.

Tuning is the one thing that I think people shouldnt skimp on. Just from my own experience when I was building my first couple cars. I ended up losing more money in the long run having to run around to different shops. Quality is hugely important in something as delicate and serious as reliability and specific power output of your car.

point taken on the bikin thing though

[Matej]

Have a bead seater and stretch tires without making a fuss about it. :)

I always thought it would be neat if there were shops that let would let you work on your car if you would like. Yes, I know there would have to liability release papers signed and such, and safety precautions would have to be taken. But basically it would be like renting out a shop space, and have professional tools available at your disposal, and of course the supervision and help of experienced people.

[Nezahualcoyotl]

I'd like to see more engine choices, that are more easily available, and that feel like it came from the manufacturer. Work on the chassis and drivetrain to better handle high HP/TRQ and deliver it to the wheels. Also, as stated before, I would like to have a proper suspension and "tuning" to handle "grip" applications and not just drift. But overall a 240SX that can compete with higher end cars manufactured for performance on the track but still be a daily driver.

[SR240DET]

i would like to collaborate my ideas with others on suspension tuning as long as its not geared towards making a profit. Anybody else down to open a thread and discuss?

[steve shadows]

Have a bead seater and stretch tires without making a fuss about it. :)

I always thought it would be neat if there were shops that let would let you work on your car if you would like. Yes, I know there would have to liability release papers signed and such, and safety precautions would have to be taken. But basically it would be like renting out a shop space, and have professional tools available at your disposal, and of course the supervision and help of experienced people.


I like this idea. and actually enjoy it a lot

stay tuned in a year or two this could happen ;)

[DataXUnknown]

I agree strongly with 'Matej'.

That and the late night thing. My car seems to break down a lot in the middle of the night, so it would be cool to just tow it to some shop not too far (rather than have it towed to my house and wake up my neighborhood) and either leave it there and work on it the next day, or just fix that shit right there. Like an automotive Denny's.

The only hard part about being open super late at night is that buisness would be really random. I'm sure if it were open to more than just the S-Chassis though, then buisness would be great.

[racepar1]

I always thought it would be neat if there were shops that let would let you work on your car if you would like. Yes, I know there would have to liability release papers signed and such, and safety precautions would have to be taken. But basically it would be like renting out a shop space, and have professional tools available at your disposal, and of course the supervision and help of experienced people.

The renting part wouldn't be that difficult, you'd just need waivers. INSURANCE on the other hand would likely be MUCH more complicated.


In all seriousness though a complete tuning solution is something that is definitely missing out there. I've always wanted to open a shop where people come to you with stock cars and consult before they buy anything. That kind of a service could even help those who want to do their own work. Trying to target the 240sx community specifically is out of the question though. There just isn't enough money there to support a shop. I would think that a broader spectrum, like ALL japanese RWD cars, would have a much better chance of survival. Right now is not the time to be opening anything though.

[helikz]

The renting part wouldn't be that difficult, you'd just need waivers. INSURANCE on the other hand would likely be MUCH more complicated.


In all seriousness though a complete tuning solution is something that is definitely missing out there. I've always wanted to open a shop where people come to you with stock cars and consult before they buy anything. That kind of a service could even help those who want to do their own work. Trying to target the 240sx community specifically is out of the question though. There just isn't enough money there to support a shop. I would think that a broader spectrum, like ALL japanese RWD cars, would have a much better chance of survival. Right now is not the time to be opening anything though.

as far as the complete tuning solution, you're right, there are so few shops that have the knowledge, facilities, and connections to make this a reality. There are shops like bulletproof who have tons of knowledge and connections, but outsource most of their real work, then there are shops with tons of knowledge and facilities like inline pro, but their connections lead them to outsource most of their light work.

There are so few places that can handle the job of going from conceptualize through delivery without the car leaving the premises, and most of those are going to be shops that do indeed specialize in a single brand or specific vehicle. In fact, most of those shops can only really do that if you break down what you want to them, not develop the idea with you.

Say you go into Transsexual Nazi Eskimo's Speed Factory in South Central Lake Titicaca (I made it up, really). Most people aren't going in there with a parts list and a service list. They're going to run headlong into their counter person, who's job is to sell you parts and services. There aren't too many places that are going to sit down with you, sometimes for hours, and develop a project that fits your needs from top to bottom, then works with different manufacturers and distributors to help fit a budget better while still turning a profit.

Lets be real here with one of the most common parts. Coilovers. A coilover system is overkill for most people that have them, but I see people who have no intention of going to the track with $2k-$3k Zeal or Aragosta coilover systems (even one utterly retarded dyno queen ona $10k Midori Seibi system), when all they really want is ride height adjustability, MAYBE damping control, and a sticker on the side of their car that says "uberJDMsuspension". They're completely wasting that money when a Ground control system with good spring rates over koni yellows will give them everything they need, but some tool in some random shop or online told them that they need coilovers. So what do they do?

I understand this is a business, but it's gone so far from producting good products and great performance, and too far into wringing every last cent out of mommy and daddy's wallet. Basic business 101: a lifetime customer will be worth more than a once in a lifetime customer 99.9% of the time, and a business who will consistantly turn all customers into lifetime customers will thrive, not just survive.

[clark]

how about be in new york?

[steve shadows]

The renting part wouldn't be that difficult, you'd just need waivers. INSURANCE on the other hand would likely be MUCH more complicated.


In all seriousness though a complete tuning solution is something that is definitely missing out there. I've always wanted to open a shop where people come to you with stock cars and consult before they buy anything. That kind of a service could even help those who want to do their own work. Trying to target the 240sx community specifically is out of the question though. There just isn't enough money there to support a shop. I would think that a broader spectrum, like ALL japanese RWD cars, would have a much better chance of survival. Right now is not the time to be opening anything though.


This is actually something that I have worked for and before it FELL APART, when me and John still had RPSport and a working relationship in business, we were going to go this route...Full Solution and only allow people to let us do 100% of the full build.

Honestly if you guys out there would like a one stop shop 100% Me and Mike Kondo, who I work with can provide it. Full consulting session prior to dropping off the car and Mike can get any of the mechanical stuff done and I finish the car off with a full day on the dyno. We have done some full builds and turbo installs + dyno on a couple cars together, working as a team (as I am only available on weekends)

If you are looking for a package 100% deal on everything, I would be willing to do this at least form what power and lighting bolts I can throw from my chair with my resources (and I have a lot now!)

Thanks also on the input about the other engines and out of ht ebox ideads and not being afraid to offer all off the wall fabrication but still getting a quality tuning job done. Usually shops are either good at fab and aweful at tuning of the other way around not both

[steve shadows]

I agree strongly with 'Matej'.

That and the late night thing. My car seems to break down a lot in the middle of the night, so it would be cool to just tow it to some shop not too far (rather than have it towed to my house and wake up my neighborhood) and either leave it there and work on it the next day, or just fix that shit right there. Like an automotive Denny's.

The only hard part about being open super late at night is that buisness would be really random. I'm sure if it were open to more than just the S-Chassis though, then buisness would be great.

when i used to do rpsort we would offer 24 hour emergency service

[Leo-kun]

Offer a huge ass selection of used parts.
Just like UpGarage.

[Def]

There's a HUGE amount of diversity within the Honda crowd.
While they surely have their share of poseurs, there's also a big portion who are dedicated purely to track events.

I think Honda owners in general just get a bad rep from ricers and JDM poseurs.
Many apparently are also willing to spend big bucks, regardless of their objective.
It's no coincidence that their after-market is so comprehensive.

If I can ever discover the 240sx equivelent to Honda-Tech's roadrace/autoX sub-forum, that will truly make my day;
Road Racing/Autocross - Honda-Tech (http://honda-tech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19)

I'd say a higher percentage of S chassis guys are into real performance than Honda guys, but the rest of the mix is generally the same. They tend to be a little more drag oriented, but S chassis guys have the catch-all "drifting."

I've got an early 2000 join date on Honda-Tech and used to own an Integra, so I know all about the "community" over there. It's changed a bit over the years, but the mix of "performance" to "looking the part" has stayed about the same through the almost decade I've been on that forum(and the Honda-Acura.com forum that existed before it ca. '98).

My point is that the "mix" of actual enthusiast owners will stay about the same for quite a while in both communities. You just can't get away from that fact, so you might as well design a business around it if you're going to cater to a specific community and be large. Enjuku selling ISIS parts is a pretty blatant example of this.

[fast-datsun]

Have a bead seater and stretch tires without making a fuss about it. :)

I always thought it would be neat if there were shops that let would let you work on your car if you would like. Yes, I know there would have to liability release papers signed and such, and safety precautions would have to be taken. But basically it would be like renting out a shop space, and have professional tools available at your disposal, and of course the supervision and help of experienced people.

Has been tryed in several locations, however do to someone getting hurt,(completely there fault) and his wife getting a team if lawyers with $$$$ in there eyes they were forced out of business and even with waviers you can not win in court....So you will not see that in California anytime soon.....

[helikz]

Thanks also on the input about the other engines and out of ht ebox ideads and not being afraid to offer all off the wall fabrication but still getting a quality tuning job done. Usually shops are either good at fab and aweful at tuning of the other way around not both

This is pretty true in most cases. There are some shops that have a good fabricator and a good tuner, but they're a rare find.

[steve shadows]

Also I wanted to take this time to post in this thread something that I DO and have tryed to offer to members but not many have taken me up on it yet.
Basically I used the dyno to literaly adjust the Spark Plug Gap, the Timing on your CAS (as in we advanced or retard the CAS timing to find the best possible HP on pump or other gas for your car) as well as use our high tech vacuum smoke machine tester to check for all possible leaks, do full diagnosis and tune your boost controller to perfection. Its called the "diag-tune" and it's a flat rate service for up to 3-4 hours on the DD.
I always wanted a service like this when I was racing my first 240 but the only options were a 450-550 dollar full dyno session or an hourly rate of at least 100-200 bucks per hour just to rent the dyno let alone get expert advice. The point of this service is so that you can get your Stock Swap or your SR20DET motor with cams and upgraded turbo running at it's MAXIMUM POTENTIAL even if you do not have a standalone EMS like a power fc or AEM. I was in FIRE need of an affordable solution to properly diagnosing my car's setup and tuning the boost controller in a SAFE and CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT!

http://www.denlorstools.com/shop/images/OTC_6521_Smoke_Machine.jpg.

I think this type of smoke/tester should be on hand at all major Nissan turbo tuners/shops because of how much of a DRASTIC improvement in fuel economy, drop off and idle and driveabiltiy and power can be made in identifying even the minor leaks that all add up that are almost impossible to find otherwise.

If I am at the shop already for another session I welcome anyone to check with me if I will be at the shop and you are welcome to come down and USE THIS FOR FREE...just check with me in advance to see if that weekend I am going to be actually at the shop. Even if I am not I can probably arrange a meeting with Mike Kondo the shop manager to let you use it for a free without me being on hand.


Thats how important I think this thing is. Especially in Id'ing shotty Blow Off Valves which are causing impossible to daignose issues.
I have tuned several KA24DET setups with JWT ecus and we dialed in the boost controller, fuel pressure, ignition spark gap and grounds as well as fixed several major vacuum leaks that were robbing the car of serious power that the owner had not been able to trace down due to the fact that the only real way to find all the leaks is to use the type of machine we use at CRM.

Anyways keep this service in mind, it's only a fraction of the cost of a full GOLD Dyno session and it is the best way to take advantage of the Dyno Dynamics ability to simulate Up-Hill, Down-Hill, Drifting and other wacky load conditions that can only be simulated with the electromagnetic brake. It's crazy seeing a Stock SR with a JWT ecu put out 295 WHP on low boost, after the car comes in with a base line run of only 185 WHP! 100-150 hp gains are common just by bumping up the CAS a degree or two and safely checking it using the knock box.

This is another cool thing I wish more shops offered for both diagnostics as well as mech/diag-tunes whcih I offer. - the knock box or high quality standalone knock detectors. These really let you push your motor to the absolute limits without having to need an EMS right off the bat to tune.

THE KNOCK BOX CC - Products (http://www.theknockbox.cc/content/view/5/5/)

http://media.revver.com/broadcast/1403428/thumbs/thumb_default.jpg

I will let you use the knock box with dyno rental or of course I will even let you take it for a test run if you come down for a diag tune so you can personally hear how the motor runs during a pull and how you can notice the very unique sounds of pre-knock and how to zero in on the perfect tonality of a motor that is tuned to perfection. It really is SEXY

[usdm180sx]

Become an HKS Pro Shop so you could tune the FCon VPro? haha

[steve shadows]

F-CON is not supported in the US at all and not a very good solution imo. Also it's all in Kanji which very few US or Euro/Aussie shops read.

There really isnt anything special about it.

The unit I have recently found love for actuallly is the Tomei Reytech. Super fast to tune and even remotely I can lock in a map dead on in only a couple data logs back and forth over the net. Great unit.

[steve shadows]

Also just FYI

YOU DO NOT NEED TO HAVE A WIDEBAND ON YOUR CAR TO COME GET A TUNE AT THE DYNO - WE HAVE OUR OWN WIDEBAND

I keep getting a million questions asking if people need to have a wideband. Any legit dyno should have it's own wideband that goes deep into the tail pipe.

Just fyi

[usdm180sx]

F-CON is not supported in the US at all and not a very good solution imo. Also it's all in Kanji which very few US or Euro/Aussie shops read.

There really isnt anything special about it.

The unit I have recently found love for actuallly is the Tomei Reytech. Super fast to tune and even remotely I can lock in a map dead on in only a couple data logs back and forth over the net. Great unit.

Well the VPro is the number one ecu in Japan and HKS does have the software in English. John Kuroyama used an English version to tune my car.

If you don't like the VPro I can't change your mind but it works fine for me. I have another one that I got for $100 for my s13 so that's why I asked. No big deal though.

Reytech sounds interesting. What is the resolution?

[steve shadows]

If you can get me a copy of the English Software I will tune the HKS no problemo...

Seriously if you can get me in touch with this guy and he will send me a copy that would be nice.

If not I will just call the CEO Mr. Toyoda of HKS. I'm pretty sure he could help because I recently help is company with something also

HKS is the best hands down for anything, I just like to have more supported ECU's if they have easily usable English software than I am sold

Tomei Unit is actually manufactured by HALTECH, yep....

Resolution is 20 x 20, but for map base unit you don't need better than this if you know what you're doing. I used to argue about it but I have found the actual quality and refresh rate as well as feedback of the sensors is more important. Probably part of the reason Tomei Reytech cars run better in my experience than a lot of cars tuned with much higher res units. I think in most cases higher res just means more stuff that can be screwed up my inexperienced shops who claim to "know it all"

[BILLFISHER21]

Have a bead seater and stretch tires without making a fuss about it. :)

I always thought it would be neat if there were shops that let would let you work on your car if you would like. Yes, I know there would have to liability release papers signed and such, and safety precautions would have to be taken. But basically it would be like renting out a shop space, and have professional tools available at your disposal, and of course the supervision and help of experienced people.


i do this at my shop. Cheap lift price 40 bucks a day.

[chituntang]

I remembered a thread somewhere talking about a guy bought a 350z and thought it was slow. Some time later he took it to a track and could not even control it.

So do we all need that much more power than a Sr'ed S-chassis car with simple bolt on? I used to have a S13 coupe, single cam engine with only a Blitz exhaust (I was like 20 at the time) and random cone filter (came with the car). Then, I got Enkei 17x75 wheels with FK452 tires, some better brake pads, J30 vlsd and Nismo shocks and struts and power brace. Now I have a S14 with a SR, complete intake upgrade, FMIC and bov, 3in turbo back exhaust, and a ebc. Rolling on stock wheels with Dunlop SP tires, and KYB AGX with RSR springs. It still has pos brake pads and open diff. Of course I love the power the SR gives me, but the S14 is still behind on the handling section.

I have been thinking about getting a set of coilovers with some bigger, wider and lighter wheels, but one question always pops up in my mind and keep me from doing this:

How much will it cost to get it right? A set of Stance and nice wheels and tires will cut me at least 2500. I also want to change all the bushings to either aftermarket arms or Nismo bushings. And lets talk about setting up. To the end, I have a 3k car, spent 2 times the amount of car on performance, and another car on handling. Yes, at the end of the day, I will have a 12-15k car that can out power and handle a 20k+ new car, but the math in the beginning just does not seem right.

Next question: What will I feel if this car get into accident the next day? You will not get most of the money you spent back, or any at all because the car is somewhat illegal. I waste a huge amount of money, sweat, and blood for nothing... SHIT!!

How many people are going to drive their 240sx to the end of the world? How many of them are going to compete in a track event? Or even better, how many of them will go to a drift event as a driver?

To all the people that hate me now, take a step back and think about this: will you keep throwing money to your 240sx until it cost over a EVO/STI? Or a 370z? Or let's say the 240sx is your daily driver and either you can get a pos car daily or sell it and get a better DD, which will you choose?

I loved my S14, but when a better car comes (370z), I will let it go when time and money are right. Unless my S14 is going to become my weekend car, that will be another story.

But is you weekend car a street car or a track car? I know a customer that is a doctor. He is really rich and into cars. He drives a Cayenne daily, Ford GT on weekends, and a FC with LS1 for track. Most of us do not make nearly half of what he does, but when you can choose to have one of the above, the FC will not be the 1st choice, just like our 240sx.

I know I said a lot of bulls here, but yes, I want somebody to piece together great suspension parts together and some tuning on them at a reasonable price.

[steve shadows]

I think the one thing that is COVERED BY FAR in this market is low cost and decent quality suspension.

With that being said I am not really sure what your post is? other than putting down everyone who has a 240SX.
and like RWD Import Cars of any kind why not spend 10K to build a 240SX into a car than can beat a 100-200K dollar car? What is bad or "Un-economical" about this?

The only states where you cannot daily drive a car like that is CA and NY. Other than that if I could I would daily drive the same 10-20K project Nissan and I would like to wipe the smiles of the faces of people like yourself, driving 200 HP Copy Cat Cookie Cutter assembly line trash at a stop light.

Isnt that what it's all about anyways? Tire Smoke in your lungs and gas in yoru veins?

I think the kind of person who builds high HP RWD Japanese sports cars is the same kind of person who would ride a motorcycle to work everyday and whose life is Cars and Engines and making stuff WORK!

It's a different type of personality alltogether than the person who "Throws all their money down the drain" buying a much slower stock Daily Driver.

Even in my case I traded my race car for a new project car altogether. And in fact I will be driving this one every single day, even next year when its got two racing seats, ITBs and a roll bar. It's just a different kind of person. A person who is a DIY, highly competitive and high achiever who loves to win...

Most of the reason I WORK, is so I can afford to have three race cars one day, M3, S14 and M5 and even more on top of that too!

I would rather drive the race car to work every day if I could get away with it. Take the tampon out

[chituntang]

Let's say you drive your race car to work and somebody hit you and total your car. You will get like nothing back. Ok, you do get something back, but not the 10k you spent on the car, but the 2k you bought it; where as I drive a EVO, total it and would still be able to pick up another EVO. Same thing goes for a 100-200k sports car.

Sure, you can buy it back from the insurance, get another shell/fix the shell, and drive it again, but then you need another car. So after all this time, you need another car. And that's why a highly modded 240sx is not really economical on the road. Of course on the track it is another story. But again, how many 20k, 30k, 100k, 200k sport cars will see the track compare to the total number there is?

You cannot expect more than half of the people who own 240sx will spend the amount of the money that will make it faster that "100-200k sport cars." If this is the case, all the SR20DET engines we get over in the states should all have upgrade turbos, FMIC, non stock ECUs, cams, metal headgasket, etc. but no. A lot of them are stock, or even badly maintained during their life. This is because there is a point where people will just buy another car for better performance, not keep upgrading it until it is better than an EVO/STI, better than a GTR, GT3, Ferrari, etc. The aftermarket market is not big in the first place.

Just think of how many Civic there is compare to how many Civic people actually race in. Then take the ratio and put it into 240sx.

I remember NOB once talked about car and he said he would drive a nice luxury car daily and picking up girls (from Super Street). And I do not think his love toward racing isn't any less than yours.

[usdm180sx]

If you can get me a copy of the English Software I will tune the HKS no problemo...

Seriously if you can get me in touch with this guy and he will send me a copy that would be nice.

If not I will just call the CEO Mr. Toyoda of HKS. I'm pretty sure he could help because I recently help is company with something also

HKS is the best hands down for anything, I just like to have more supported ECU's if they have easily usable English software than I am sold

Tomei Unit is actually manufactured by HALTECH, yep....

Resolution is 20 x 20, but for map base unit you don't need better than this if you know what you're doing. I used to argue about it but I have found the actual quality and refresh rate as well as feedback of the sensors is more important. Probably part of the reason Tomei Reytech cars run better in my experience than a lot of cars tuned with much higher res units. I think in most cases higher res just means more stuff that can be screwed up my inexperienced shops who claim to "know it all"

Cool I will ask Jon :)

[usdm180sx]

Let's say you drive your race car to work and somebody hit you and total your car. You will get like nothing back. Ok, you do get something back, but not the 10k you spent on the car, but the 2k you bought it; where as I drive a EVO, total it and would still be able to pick up another EVO. Same thing goes for a 100-200k sports car.

Sure, you can buy it back from the insurance, get another shell/fix the shell, and drive it again, but then you need another car. So after all this time, you need another car. And that's why a highly modded 240sx is not really economical on the road. Of course on the track it is another story. But again, how many 20k, 30k, 100k, 200k sport cars will see the track compare to the total number there is?

You cannot expect more than half of the people who own 240sx will spend the amount of the money that will make it faster that "100-200k sport cars." If this is the case, all the SR20DET engines we get over in the states should all have upgrade turbos, FMIC, non stock ECUs, cams, metal headgasket, etc. but no. A lot of them are stock, or even badly maintained during their life. This is because there is a point where people will just buy another car for better performance, not keep upgrading it until it is better than an EVO/STI, better than a GTR, GT3, Ferrari, etc. The aftermarket market is not big in the first place.

Just think of how many Civic there is compare to how many Civic people actually race in. Then take the ratio and put it into 240sx.

I remember NOB once talked about car and he said he would drive a nice luxury car daily and picking up girls (from Super Street). And I do not think his love toward racing isn't any less than yours.

That's a nice argument except for the fact that it completely misses the EMOTIONAL part of the equation. People build 240's because they like them. What a concept!

[SUPERSTAR]

I would like to see a giant cookie jar that never goes empty on the counter. A pair of Giant tits on the counter that never go empty. That would be cool.

[steve shadows]

done and done...

wait...gaint what? never goes empty...hmm

[MADE]

Umm set me up for the smoke machine, I always have some time on the weekend.

[landins13]

im getting sick of a lack of quality in shops work, and the lack of a garuntee or warranty.

within 1 week of paying 8k to have my sr swap done my trans blew, and it was not warrantied or covered because a stock sr is a race part.

the wiring harness was done incorectly i had to fix it

the motor blew up and i had to fix it.

after paying a shop to rebuild the motor, they didnt clean the block all that well and the motor spun another bearing this happened twice before i took care of it myself

now i have a fully built motor and the shop that assembeled it for me didnt check the flow of my oiling rails and i killed 2 cam shafts 2 rockers and now have metal shavings in my motor again after 500 miles

im just sick of paying a shop 1k+ to do work i could do but i assume theyre experts and will do it better than i could, which is not the case more often then not.

as far as tuning. id like a shop that doesnt charge 125 an hour for dyno time plus another 100 an hour to tune. there is not that much work that goes into tuning that i should have to pay 1k for you to sit in my car on a dyno for 3 hours

^^ this is why i learned how to tune for myself and fortunatelly enough have a friend that lets me use his mustang dyno for 50 an hour.

my main complaint it shops with good reputations doing shit work and trying to make it seem like its my fault that when they assembled my engine they forgot a bolt or didnt torque something down

when i got my motor back this past time the cas hadnt been tightend it had been installed but not tightend so as i was driving up the rd it vibrated turned and the car died.

[landins13]

Let's say you drive your race car to work and somebody hit you and total your car. You will get like nothing back. Ok, you do get something back, but not the 10k you spent on the car, but the 2k you bought it; where as I drive a EVO, total it and would still be able to pick up another EVO. Same thing goes for a 100-200k sports car.

Sure, you can buy it back from the insurance, get another shell/fix the shell, and drive it again, but then you need another car. So after all this time, you need another car. And that's why a highly modded 240sx is not really economical on the road. Of course on the track it is another story. But again, how many 20k, 30k, 100k, 200k sport cars will see the track compare to the total number there is?

You cannot expect more than half of the people who own 240sx will spend the amount of the money that will make it faster that "100-200k sport cars." If this is the case, all the SR20DET engines we get over in the states should all have upgrade turbos, FMIC, non stock ECUs, cams, metal headgasket, etc. but no. A lot of them are stock, or even badly maintained during their life. This is because there is a point where people will just buy another car for better performance, not keep upgrading it until it is better than an EVO/STI, better than a GTR, GT3, Ferrari, etc. The aftermarket market is not big in the first place.

Just think of how many Civic there is compare to how many Civic people actually race in. Then take the ratio and put it into 240sx.

I remember NOB once talked about car and he said he would drive a nice luxury car daily and picking up girls (from Super Street). And I do not think his love toward racing isn't any less than yours.


if you drive an evo and you dont see the point in modding a s-chasis wtf are you doing on this forum and youve been here a while. i know plenty of guys whos 240's walk on evos on a daily basis. i also have a friend who built a 9 second evo and parted it out for 1/3 the amount of money he put into it.

you are right in the fact that if you total your evo you can use the insurance to buy another one. if i total my 240 i can buy another and swap my parts over. yes certain things will be damaged and have to be replaced but realistically if you have any aftermarket parts on your evo youll have to do the same and if you have a bone stock evo wtf are you doin in the import scene

it seems as though you are one of those people who want things to be handed to them, you buy a 300hp car so that you dont have to choose the right parts and do somethin to make the 300 hp yourself

this thread wasnt meant to be a what dont you like about modding 240's it was supposed to be what do shops do that could be done better.

you just turned into kanye running around interupting shit you dont seem to be involved in.

ima let you finish but seriously wtf are you doing in this forum and this comunity if you dont like modding cars and dont understand modding s-chasis

[chituntang]

USDM: Like and love still has a limit as to when you are going to stop. Even you hit mega million, is your garage still going to have only 240sxs? If so, are every one of them fully modded? After that, are you going to take your family to a trip in a 240sx? Take your boat out with your 240sx? You going to brake up with your girl/boyfriend because of a car (I know I am going a little bit over, sorry)?

landins13: I am not saying I do not like modding my car at all. Read my first post and you will know what I am driving now.

I work hard for my money and I do not want my money become nothing when bad things happens. I can recover more as having a 30k EVO as a 30k S-chassis car. To make it worse, insurance has the right to not give a damn to you because your car is in fact illegal.

That's my point.

But guess what? I still put money into my S14, 3 times what the car cost already. And I am still pumping money into the car as of right now. There is still parts that I want to get, parts I have but not installed into the car yet. I am just giving you a reason as to why people do not want to spend that much money on a hobby.

Earlier this month, I talked to my buddy about car and he said he is going to get a Carrera as a weekend car. In my mind, this is not a weekend car at all. My weekend car should be something like my 240sx but much better in making power and handling. I am not going to settle for just a faster car. As a hobby, I want my weekend car that feels more like a race car, not just faster.

There is no right/wrong way to mod a car. Stop getting piss off when people do not mod their car your way or spend less money to get parts that do less from what you have. Questions like SR/KA/RB/2JZ/LSX or whatever; springs, springs/struts, coilovers; S13/FC/SW20 or whatever; FF/RWD/4WD; drag/drift/autox/track; a lot of you set these stupid standards.

There are enough shops as to selling parts, building/tune engines, doing suspension upgrades, etc. It does not matter which shop does which and if it does it all. Either stop bitching at people that do not want to spend the money you ask for or lower the price so people will come in and pay you. Will you make a profit, brake even, or lose money? I have no idea, but does not matter how low you set your price, there will be people that still think their car does not need any of these service.

Go ahead and open a one stop shop for s-chassis only. See how fast you will close down. Do the same for EVO, STI, whatever, you will still close down fast.

[steve shadows]

why are you posting on this forum?

The only reason people are "wasting money" is because they are doing things based on emotion and not research.
If you do your homework you will find out if a shop is legitimate or just fucking up peoples builds etc like the posted above your post.
If you don't trust the shop and you have a love for racing then do it yourself and you won't have anyone to blame.
Find out the last person who went to the shop and find out more. Do they reduce the price if only a fraction of work is done? do they support you with free help after the fact if you need it? etc etc etc.

The issue is a lot of the used parts people are buying are crap and many times it's not the fault of the shop installing the goods (unless of course they are providing the shitty parts to you as well). Having other issues with the shitty used old parts that are being installed or having a customer bring in some old used JDM parts and wanting them installed is usually what causes issues. Just make sure you are getting your monies worth and it really doesnt take much to insure yourself.

1. Make sure the parts you are buying are from a shop with a long history and good reputation
2. Make sure you know what part you are buying or what you have (i.e. dont buy some injectors when you dont even know what size they are)
3. Make sure the shop you are going to takes care of it's customers even after work is performed with support and advice etc (most just throw you out on your ass)

to the poster above me

If you want to go fucking post about air fresheners and oem dealerships go post on automotiveforums or some shit head golfing forum.

This is a thread for people who are welders, custom fabricators, drifters, racers and people who are CAR PEOPLE.

[steve shadows]

as far as tuning. id like a shop that doesnt charge 125 an hour for dyno time plus another 100 an hour to tune. there is not that much work that goes into tuning that i should have to pay 1k for you to sit in my car on a dyno for 3 hours



The thing is most of the shops DONT have good reputations they just have good VISIBILITY

I find this really common. I have had a lot of customers who went to the best known shop in California for SR work only to have to come to me to have engine rebuilt properly or the computer retuned.

A lot of people buy into HYPED up shops because the Magazine features it.

For example how many people on here would have spent 100 dollars at Signal Auto to have them install a Tachometer wire (ie literally just cut up your stock engine harness by your ECU and run a T to it to get your dash tach to wokr)?

People would because signal was EVERYWHERE< all over the internet etc and sponsoring cars. So people automatically thought that because of these things they did quality work.

Nothing against Signal and they do good work, but this is just an example of blindly walking into shops just because they have good VISIBILITY. If you really dig deep you may find out things arent as nice and you thought.

In regards to the tuning thing, Now you know what I am talking about!

Dynos cost upwards of 225 dollars an hour in some places, hence I offer an extremely affordable service to West Coasters for only about 125 per hour when you break it down