S13 Turbine .vs. s15 Turbine.

[radrex88]

My buddy has an s15 turbine and a GTR fuel pump on his ca18 in his 180, and he wants to trade me for my s13 and stock pump so he can get better gas mileage. Will this turbine make my car faster or slower, and will I need any other mods to run high boost. thanks

[uiuc240]

this turbo will flow a bit more air. it's more efficient at higher boost levels too. sorry...i'm not in the mood to type about it...there is a plethora of info about this setup around the internet. look it up. it's a good upgrade.

Eric

[DuffMan]

Why would a turbo and fuel pump effect gas milage? And no, it will bolt right on. To run higher boost, you would still need some kind of fuel management though.

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by DuffMan
Why would a turbo and fuel pump effect gas milage? And no, it will bolt right on. To run higher boost, you would still need some kind of fuel management though.

Just FYI:

S15 turbo's have been run on 370's stock mafs and stock ECU's all the way to 14psi.

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally posted by DuffMan
And no, it will bolt right on.

That statement is incorrect. The S15 turbine is not a direct replacement. I don't know the exact details on the install (VRTElectrique on FA did), but I know it's not plug & play, per se.

[DuffMan]

Originally posted by Foxcolt
Just FYI:

S15 turbo's have been run on 370's stock mafs and stock ECU's all the way to 14psi. So have S13 turbos, what's your point? The S15 turbo is capable of a lot more power than the stock injectors are.

[mrmephistopheles]

That's because 14psi on an S13 turbine and 14psi on an S15 turbine are not equal. The S15 will flow more CFM, which will call for more fuel. Foxcolt is saying that the stock fuel system will be sufficient to 14psi on the S15 turbine.

[DuffMan]

And your point is?

He asked what mods are neccessary to run high boost, my answer was fuel.

[radrex88]

Thanks for the quick response guys, currently I am running .7-.8 bar for every day driving, and when I go racing I turn it up to 1 bar or 14.5 psi. I guess my question is will I still be able to do this w/ the s15, and will it be safe for the engine w/ stock fuel and enternals, thanks.

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally posted by DuffMan
And your point is?

He asked what mods are neccessary to run high boost, my answer was fuel.

Isn't 14psi higher than say... stock 7 psi?

Radrex - I'd recommend overbuilding your fuel system. I've never heard of a motor blowing up from having too much fuel. To answer your question, you SHOULD be just fine on stock fuel, even at 1 bar.

[radrex88]

Thanks I plan on upgrading the fuel system soon, but money is short, and this upgrade is an even swap for my s13 turbine and fuel pump.:D

[drift freaq]

I would do it if I were you. The S15 turbo is a ceramic coated T28 which will bolt onto a stock S13 SR manifold. the S15 fuel pump is a good pump I do not know how much more fuel pressure its turning out.
honestly if he is looking for better mileage he should try keeping his foot out of it . hehehhehe

[uiuc240]

It is not "ceramic coated". The T28 from the S15 has ceramic Inconel turbine blades. They are lighter, but more prone to failure if any sort of debris decides to **** them off. That doesn't happen often, though, so it's a good mod.

You need a few things to run the S15 turbo on an S13 motor.

click for link (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=168010&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1)

Eric

[HaLo]

I run a S15 turbo on my car and it's not a complete bolt on! You need to modify your oil and water lines.

[DuffMan]

Originally posted by mrmephistopheles
Isn't 14psi higher than say... stock 7 psi?


No, higher meaning higher than what the s13 turbo can run. He was already running 1 bar on the s13 turbo, and to run higher than that on the s15 turbo he would need fuel.

Looking at that FA post, mike says he hit 95.5% duty cycle at 1 bar, so yeah I think the stock fuel system is maxed out. I was wrong about the direct bolt on thing though. I was thinking s14 turbo, but the s15 turbo uses a different compressor.

[radrex88]

Can anyone explain what I need to do for the swap, cause I cant seem to get that link to work. thanks

[uiuc240]

you need to login to FreshAlloy.

*******

Ugh... after many hours of frustrating surprises and misinformation the S15 turbo is now in my car (S13 Silvia with red top SR20DET).

Despite what people say.. its NOT a completely direct "easy" bolt on swap. There are other little things needed but for the most part it IS a direct on swap.

The S15 turbo itself is larger so it has less clearence then the stock T25 turbine but this is not a problem, just a pain in the A$$ when installing
The 2 bolt holes for the studs on the S15 turbine inlet on the compressor are slightly rotated clockwise about an inch and a half. This makes it impossible to use the S13 T25 aluminum inlet pipe on the compressor because the new position of the pipe is facing down towards the A/C lines as well as being at a funny angle for the rubber hose coming from the air flow meter.
This requires the use of the S15 compressor inlet pipe ($40.00) which turns out to be in the perfect position.
Otherwise if you made custom inlet pipe and piping you coudl work around this easily, but using stock piping you will encounter the above problems.

Second problem (when using stock piping to/from intercooler) is that the outlet pipe for the compresor also has holes rotated slightly so the new position for the outlet pipe is at a 45 degree angle and requires the use of the CA18DET 45 degree rubber elbow where it joins to the metal extension pipe that an aftermarket blow off would mount on.
Remember, these are only problems for those using stock intercooler and intake piping on a red top SR20.
If using or making custom piping like most of us then its not a problem. I just thought I would share the info for those who need it on both sides.. (stock piping and non-stock piping)

The oil return pipe at the bottom of the turbine is now farther away from the block requiring the use of a different rubber hose to reach the block but you can be creative... I jumped a fence next to the shop and stole one off a wrecked Toyota Surf/4-Runner).
The coolant lines are also a little streched and become a rather pain in the *** when manuvering the turbine around the small space.
I found it easier to connect ALL coolant lines to the turbo first. THEN move the exhaust manifold into position and bolt it up.
You will soon see how much of a pain in the *** it is bolting up the turbo in that small space.
Many crushed fingers and cuss words.

If you are resourceful and creative then you can figure it out and can probable come up with many solutions to work around the difficulties but its not a very hard procedure. Its not really hard at all. Just time consuming with the cramped work space and details to pay attention to.

RESULT:
the car now pulls very strong all the way to redline but not only does it keep pulling but it pulls stronger and feels quite a bit faster. This you notice first thing.
I did a few 1. bar runs from 1st to 4th but in 3rd gear I saw a short time that the injectors were running 95.6% duty cycle according to the FC Commander but stayed down at 89-92% the rest of the time.
The first thing I will do it change to 550cc units when I get time and cash.

WOW.. what an improvement, when I get my fuel right I can't wait to see how much better it is at the circuits, I think its going to be perfect for drifting.. now to find some 550's laying around.

--------------------
SHIFT_brake cleaner
http://DjElektrique.com
would you like a picture frame for that pose?

********

Eric

[halyoder]

there are more things that you will have to do to put a s15 turbo on to a s13 sr20det. i just got done put the gp sport turbo kit on my s13 sr20det. the turbo is a reworked s15 so it is a t28 and the first problem that i ran in to was the the oil return line on the t25 did not fit the t28, so i order a t28 oil return line fron hks it was 28.00 with shipping. the next problem i ran in to was that the oil return line was hiting the steering colum so i cut it, but i got a new exhaust manifold so this might have lowered the turbo. the water line and the other oil line i just man handled them in to place. i had to relocate my oil catch can cause the new exhaust manifold sat up to high, so i just bought a greddy catch can. i think that was all i had to do...

[radrex88]

Thnks for the help guys.:D