Motor Swap

[Swags]

Hey all, well im kinda new to the silvia, im a dsm guy, but im looking into buying a 1997-98 240sx...for the looks, but the only think that is steering me away is the slowness of them, i know they can handle good ect ect, but im more of a strait line person, i was looking at the Sr20DET motor swap..how much does that cost, and what do i all need for a complete swap, give me some prices like shiped to your door and evreything you need..and if anybody can give me some 1/4 miles tims and some HP/Tourqe readings  on your S14...tell me, any and all info is wanted!!!!!1

well a 240 with the regular engine had 155 hp and 160lb-ft of torque.  the sr20det from the 95-98 models had 220 hp and the newest sr20det engine has 250 hp

[Swags]

and how much do they run..installed?

id say to buy the engine a good one with everything 4500 to 5000.  installation depends on the shop on how much they charge by the hour and how quick they are.  maybe another thousand give or take for labor

[Jeff240sx]

You can't just buy the engine.  You need a FMIC, and fuel crap.  Then a down pipe, a turbo timer, and lots of other crap.  Expect around $1300 for labor and $1500 for FMIC and crap.  On top of the engine.
-Jeff

[HippoSleek]

If you are a straight line guy, the KA can be turboed and ran faster than an SR.  At present, there are KA's in the 10's and SR's in the 12's.  The most knowledgable seems to be a guy in Houston (the website was "houston import scene" or something like that.  Either way, it will not beat a GSX (but will be cheaper on driveline replacements).

[Swags]

Well when i ask for engine, im asking about evreything i will need like tranny all the piping, all fuel managent ecu, evreything, but this is a daily driver, and a mid to low 13 second car is my TOP goal...like i said , this car is going to be a show car also, i need both, if its to much im going back to my 2nd Gen DSM's!!!thanks!

btw whats a dsm (god i hate these codename shits).  hey hold up dont give up that easy.  240's are way better than those dsm's (w/e they are)  anywho a 240 can be made to run faster than a lot of cars out there.  that rear wheel drive gives it a big advantage.

[misnomer]

Diamond Star something or other. Basically a Mitsubishi Eclipse or an Eagle Talon. Don't go on and on about the 240sx RWD here, the Talon is an AWD car, and both (higher trims) are more powerful stock than we are. Downside is they're almost as common as a #### Ford Mustang <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[Jeff240sx]

swags. &nbsp;unstable-hybrids.com has the entire engine, ecu, FMIC, boost gauge, air/fuel gauge, gauge pod, IC piping, BOV, GReddy downpipe (3&quot;), K&amp;N cone filter, and a fuel pump INSTALLED for $5400. &nbsp;This is a redtop s13 205hp engine.
Any other q's, just post.
-Jeff

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Swags on 5:30 pm on Sep. 3, 2001
Well when i ask for engine, im asking about evreything i will need like tranny all the piping, all fuel managent ecu, evreything, but this is a daily driver, and a mid to low 13 second car is my TOP goal...like i said , this car is going to be a show car also, i need both, if its to much im going back to my 2nd Gen DSM's!!!thanks!
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Okay, an SR will do. &nbsp;Unstable-hybrids or heavythrottle.com will be able to hook you up with the complete engine and &quot;should get&quot; parts (FMIC, BOV, clutch, head-gasket, exhaust, fuel, electronics (TT, BC, SFC), LSD, and gauges for about $6-700ish or so. &nbsp;That should be good for mid-high 13's on street tires. &nbsp;Add a bigger turbo and a stand alone engine managment and you can see 12's. &nbsp;KA turbo costs about the same to put the F-Max kit on and beef up the bottom end, but will run faster - but it lacks the rev's and the prestige of the SR. &nbsp;Honestly, I bought my S14 looking to go SR, but am now thinking of building a KA-T after seeing the numbers. &nbsp;Either way, you can build a #### of a car that will suit your needs.

[Swags]

Alright guys thanks alot for all the help, btw a DSM is a Diamond Star Motors....which are basicclly all Turbo Eclipse/Talon/3000GT/Stealths/Lasers. Thanks again boyz.

[DragonReborn214]

If you are looking for speed, go buy a crx and do a ls-vtec conversion, and you will be running mid to low 12's. Plus the ls-vtec conversion will cost you around 4 grand, plus the cost of a crx, which is cheap, and you will be hauling ass.

Now go away. Muhahaha

[Swags]

I need to look good to bro, and not to offend CRX owners, but my bro uses his for a winter beater, and his talon tsi awd (96) for his show race,he has like around 1500 bucks in performane and he runs 14.2, his car also is a major show car, and has took home multilple tropies...but im just sayin , crx's are and always willbe just &quot;cheap&quot; no matter how much is done.

[Jeff240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DragonReborn214 on 3:19 pm on Sep. 4, 2001
If you are looking for speed, go buy a crx and do a ls-vtec conversion, and you will be running mid to low 12's. Plus the ls-vtec conversion will cost you around 4 grand, plus the cost of a crx, which is cheap, and you will be hauling ass.

Now go away. Muhahaha
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I just REALLY can't believe you said that. &nbsp;There are a couple things wrong with this post.
First: A CRX is FWD.
Second: A CRX is a honda.
Third: A 240sx board should not praise Honda's
and most importantly...
Fourth: &nbsp;12 seconds?? That is crap!! &nbsp;Have you not seen Duy's 240sx? &nbsp;It is a 10.8 second KA motor. &nbsp;Make the CRX chew on that!
-Jeff

[ca18guy]

A 12 sec street legal honda on a simple engine transplant. Where is your proof, i would love to see it. It is hard enough getting a FWD to do low 13's on STREET tires (not drags), but if you found out someway to run a 12 like that i'd love to hear it.

[DragonReborn214]

The ls-vtec is quite popular now in the los angeles area. It just started about 6 months ago. I actually was going to do this with an acura integra, but I decided on a 240sx instead. ( I used to have a 300zxtt, but I slammed it into a curb/wall ) Anyways, I don't want my post to be too long, so I am not going to go into too much detail on how the conversion is done, but basically it is a integra ls block with a gsr or type r head. What ends up happening is you get about 220 at the flywheel, with way nice torque figures.

Anyways, keep in mind I said that the CRX with the ls-vtec conversion would rin mid/low 12's, and that is JUST with the stock ls-vtec engine, not a tuned/aftermarketed up one. Anyways, just thought I would share.

check out this site for more info. I have some friends who work there, so if you call, ask for Aldo.

www.atomicperformance.com

peace

[LanceS13]

I know this is straying way off topic and it's a Nissan board, but I'm just replying to Jeff and ca18guy.
I guess I'm more of a CAR guy than a NISSAN guy. &nbsp;So I feel compelled to defend Honda's CRX here.;)
CRX's, while really slow stock, can be really fast with the right motor swap...usually the LS-VTEC or the H22A from the Prelude. &nbsp;I don't think 12's are out of reach with that setup, or at least 13's, especially with bolt-ons and a good tuning--~200hp in a 2000lb car.
I know of at least two guys running 5th gen Civics with turboed GS-R engines running in the high 9's!
But anyway, a CRX just ain't gonna cut it in the show room. &nbsp;A '97-'98 240 would look really nice, though...and I would think a turbo (SR or KA) with some work should get in the 13's.

[ca18guy]

I understand what your saying (I have thought of doing up a crx, then came to my sense's). But notice i said on street tires and the swap alone. The website said the engine would make 220 hp and 155 lbs and then made a vague(sic) statement that it would run 12's all motor. I'm sorry but i don't see a 220hp crx running 12's. With that set up on street tires I would put my money on 14's. In fact I found a program on the net a couple days ago that calculates 1/4 mile times and such (I put the link to the site for this &quot;calculator&quot; at the bottom of this post) and it has been very accurate, and it said with this set up and a perfect launch it would have a 0-60 of 6.3sec and a 1/4 mile of 15.1. Please check out the program I used for this, it is an amazing program. Anyway I don't think that you can run 12's with that setup and til I see proof(an actual car not some shop selling a product) I will keep thinking that.

http://z31.com/software/CarTest.zip
(i tend not to trust &quot;car calculators&quot; but this one amazes me)


(Edited by ca18guy at 2<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>0 pm on Sep. 5, 2001)

[LanceS13]

A CRX weighs more or less 2200lbs. w/ driver. &nbsp;A hp calc. that I used (which is dead on for a stock 240) produced 198hp at the wheels @13 sec. in a 2200lb. car. &nbsp;I know for a fact they're way faster than 15 sec cars (just don't have proof with me). &nbsp;A stock CRX si runs 16's with 106hp...I don't think you'd just shave a second with a double in hp. &nbsp;But anyway...let's quit post-jacking Swag's thread b4 we piss somebody off <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>.

[cheater240]

What about dropping in a 300ZX V6? &nbsp;I think these engines are all aluminum and made 222hp. &nbsp;Grab the entire system... ECU, tranny, AC, PS pump, etc... &nbsp;from a LOCAL junkyard. &nbsp;Then you would have an engine that was factory reliable with replacement parts easily available. &nbsp;Also, there is plenty of aftermarket support for this engine to get it to around 250+ hp...probably more.

Just my $0.02

[Jeff240sx]

Ok. &nbsp;I too am a car guy. &nbsp;I love american muscle cars, and import sports cars. &nbsp;But nothing Honda has made has stuck me as a sports car until the s2000. &nbsp;Possibly the prelude, but it is still FWD.
But back to the CRX. &nbsp;a '91 CRX si runs 16.8 stock. &nbsp;With 220 hp and 155 torque, you now have a 6.3 second 0-60 and a 14.5 second quarter mile.
And who ever said that simply by doing a ls/vtec conversion you'd get those astounding numbers?
Lets take a look at facts. &nbsp;From a site, the integras ('94+) have the following figures:
Ls block. &nbsp;140 hp and 133 torque.
GSR block 170hp and 134 torque.
Type-R block 185 hp and 135 torque
Now. &nbsp;Even if you bolt on a gsr head (which isn't a nice bolt on at all. &nbsp;You've gotta have a machine shop do lotsa work but anyway)
Now... what in the head would give better torque figures? &nbsp;And what in the world would make a gsr head on a ls block produce more hp than a Type-R?
The &quot;Honda Tuning&quot; magazine I first saw the article in mentioned 210hp AFTER TURBO'ING IT!!
Anyway... whoever claimed those figures pissed-off my friend. &nbsp;Who has an Integra and know just about all you need to know about them.
-Jeff

[LanceS13]

I was mainly speaking for the CRX H22 swap. &nbsp;I was just going what Dragon said about the LS-VTEC b/c I don't know much about it...220hp does sound like alot. &nbsp;A Prelude runs about 15 flat/low 15's at around 3000lbs. &nbsp;Subtract almost 1000lbs. with a CRX should cut at least a second...so now you're running ~14 flat. &nbsp;Add i/h/e and you're in the high 13's. &nbsp;Add a turbo and...
ok, I'm really gonna shut up now b/c my argument is based solely on other's accounts and logic...I have no true experience with this so I'm not really in an ideal position to argue.:biggrin:

[DragonReborn214]

Hahaha. Trust me, a crx with ls-vtec would smoke most bpu supras. Anyways, I will explain the ls-vtec a little. The ls block is a non vtec one. Anyways, there is nice torque on it and you get more pull at the lower rpms. With the gsr/type r head you have the vtec, but that kicks in only at later rpms. What they figured out is that if you combine the two you get both.

It is referred to as the &quot;Frankenstein motor&quot;. Do a search on yahoo for &quot;ls-vtec&quot; and then come back and talk about it.

[ca18guy]

A ls/vtec CRX would not beat a bpu supra, you have to be smoking some serious crack. Even if the engine pushed out the 220 it claims, it still only has 155 lbs of torque which is not alot (though you don't need much for a 2200lb car) And yes I have heard of this engine and it has been out for awhile, but to think that a 220hp crx can roll up to a 400+hp (with 3 times as much torque)supra and beat it would be foolish, even with a 1500lbs weight advantage. Also Lances13 the calculater I used said stock would be 16.8 1/4 mile and the conversion would be 15.1, thats 1.7 seconds faster, personally I think it should be a high 14 second car. Anyway I'm done trying to agrue my point, i'll just keep laughing at all the honda's that try to race me cause they believe they have 12 sec cars from 220hp. (a s2000 runs what? high 13's with 240hp and rwd, yet the 220 crx run's 12's?)

FOR SWAGS: &nbsp;If I were to buy a 97-98 240sx, I would stick with the original engine. It's fairly new, is less of a hassle then an engine transplant, and would be less money to turbo it then put in a new engine. 155hp and 160lbs is a great starting point for a turbo kit.

[LanceS13]

That hp calc is pretty awesome, but now it won't let me open it. &nbsp;It keeps saying I don't have enough Conventional Memory. &nbsp;What is that? &nbsp;I did play around with it last night and got a 200hp CRX to run like a low 14 or something...can't remember. &nbsp;I want to do it again to get the exact time, but I can't open it. &nbsp;Can you help?:confused:
But like I said, how can a 200hp CRX run a 15.1, when a 200hp Prelude that's 1000lbs. heavier runs around 15.1?

[misnomer]

Lance: Conventional memory should be system RAM. Try quitting other apps and then opening it. If that doesn't work, restart the computer. If that still doesn't work, then perhaps your hdd is getting too full, erase your internet cache or a coupla files you don't need anymore. Make sure you empty the recycling bin too.

[ca18guy]

Not enough conventional memory? Are you running windows 98 or ME. I have no clue whats wrong, i'll go mess around with it and see if there is a glitch. &nbsp;The prelude versus crx thing, gearing is probably different and hp/torque curve is different, thats all i can think of.

[ca18guy]

Here is a link to how to create more conventional memory <a href="http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q134/3/99.asp

It" target="_blank">http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q134/3/99.asp

It</a> seems like a lot of work, I would'nt bother if your not very good with computers. Try deleting it and redownload it.

[LanceS13]

I re-booted and everything seems to be fine now.

I ran a CRX with a Prelude motor and tranny specs and it ran 0-60 in 5.4, quarter in 14.1 @ 100.9mph. &nbsp;I also guestimated a heavier weight with the heavier motor so that should be, and sounds, pretty accurate. &nbsp;After adding 100hp and 90lb.-ft. and lowering compression (turbo), it ran 12.3 @ 117mph. &nbsp;So my final conclusion is that it would take a motor swap AND turbo to put a CRX into the 12's.

[DragonReborn214]

&lt;sigh&gt; Your hp calculator is (bs) not the real world... Anyways, call up the shop and speak with them.

[ca18guy]

Like i said in my post I usually don't trust the calculators but it has been dead on with other cars. Are honda's magically exempt from the laws of physics/lagic. Besides it proves more then what you have stated. Once again produce a timeslip or something, some type of proof. If they have dynoed the engine were is the dyno slip? Where is the car that they got 12's with?I would call the shop to hear them but I live in England and really don't want to pay for that call. I give up, have fun believing your slow honda's are fast.
&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.planetgif.f9.co.uk/Gifs/Rude/pissedon.gif &quot;&gt;

[FastNissan]

As for a good place for SR pricing and info check out heavythrottle.com

[margaflow]

&nbsp; hey , if u put a h22 on crx , you'll be runing mid to high 12's for sure with a good setup , but if u put a ls-vtec you'll be runing low 13's with a good set up.

look for this homepage for times of the crx with h22:

http://www.g-speed.com/pbh/fastest/naturally-aspirated-hybrids.html

[Drift Style S14]

HELLO, WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE???!!!

stop the talking about CRX and H22 we all know that they have potential. Remeber that this is a 240 forum, so lets get back to it. Oh and a CRX will never have what a 240 has cause its FWD. i would love to &nbsp;see them drift a few turns in a CRX. just ignore me i am CRAZY!!!!

[Nismo Tom]

I would like ot get to you guys straight about duy's 240sx. No one wil ever be able to maybe even get their car to his level and i think we should stop using him for an example of what he can do, because no one hiere will ever come close to reachign his best record of 10.33. Also i bet you guy's did not know what duy's 240 when all this racing is taken is done with a 25psi boost and a 50shot of nitrous? Also his engien has 5k miles on it. I can almost be no one here will ever be able to get their car that fast and better yet do it without breaking their engine.

[Nismo Tom]

Also he spent over 20k to get his car to do that.

[S13Grl]

Tom, how do you know that some of these people here &nbsp;aren't billionares? How the #### do you know that someone might not save money and have a 9-f[bleep]ing-second-240 someday. Duy is no-ones God. The guy has got a dope car. With money, ANYONE can have a dope car. And if you try, money isn't that hard to get. Whatever, dude, I don't even wanna continue replying to this.

[S13Grl]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DragonReborn214 on 2:18 pm on Sep. 6, 2001
&lt;sigh&gt; Your hp calculator is (bs) not the real world... Anyways, call up the shop and speak with them.
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Yesss.. the all-sacred shops... they know EVERYTHING in the world about cars. I'm gonna repeat what CA18Guy said: YOU ARE SMOKING CRACK!!! By the way, if someone has a question about a 240, instead of telling this person to get the #### away, you should answer their question if you know what you're talking about. If you don't, then just chill... it's ok. If &nbsp;I personally don't know what to say, then I'll just pass. I don't have to reply to every post. Just relax... the world is a beautiful place. And Duy and performance shops rule it all...