Emergency Braking

[Dark]

A situation presented itself today where I had to react instead of act the fact that I just bumped into the other car and no damage was done is good. I've never been in an accident before I've always tried to be careful However, I didn't realize how slippery wet concrete can be and the front wheels locked up and I understeered I don't want to be in that kind of a situation so I'm asking for advice. This is the first car I've had with no ABS safety has been my primary concern when driving on public roads now I realize that I can't convert the car to ABS and I don't want to. So what should I do last night I practiced my braking in wet whether and I thought I did good today however I realize that my instincts were to slam on the brakes so if anybody can offer any tips I’d appreciate it. I was only going 10 mph when I had to slam on the brakes so speeding was not a factor so please help me figure this out.

[Dousan_PG]

no matter how much you practice if you get in that situation your nerves will get the best of you (slam on brakes)
just have to get it to be second nature.
pump the brakes!

[the head]

A. keep a little more distance between yourself and others

B. the more you practice in slick situations the less ocurances of just mashing the pedal will occur eventually it becomes habit to pump them at the threshold instead of locking up

C. If you want to know how i know these things my first car was an 83 buick convertable more than two tons of metal in Iowa in the winter with no ABS

D. Keep at it soon it all becomes habit

[ruf]

Originally posted by dousan36
pump the brakes! Amateur... :rolleyes: I don't like pumping. It tends to upset the chassis. Threshold braking is something that just takes time to be mastered. Equipment helps too. Stainless lines, brake booster brace, progressive pads, good tires. With a good setup, you feel like you can get up to 100% braking instantly and hold it there on the edge of locking up. With a mushy system, it's a lot more work and you have to take up as much as you can initially and work up to the threshold. If you lock them up, modulate back out and reapply. Keep in mind road irregularities like the crosswalk/stopline paint. Those things are like ice patches.

[Dark]

I've never had problems with threshold braking the problems I've had are when the unthinkable happens and I'm in a situation wher I cannot anticipate or calculate in those situations ABS saved my A$$ practice makes perfect I understand that but the wet concrete was not something I expected but I'll try my best and be more carefull especially on rainy days

[DSC]

IMO, actually pumping the brakes would be worse than just locking them up.
I'd like to think when people say "pump the brakes", especially dousan, they actually mean modulation...which would likely be a minute pumping action, especially in unpredictable road surface conditions like rain where it's harder to hold the pedal on the edge of lockup w/out going over and having to modulate back a bit.

Having said that ABS rocks on a street car :) and has saved my ass on track too, hehe.

Dave-
Who has yet to master threshold braking...

[Dousan_PG]

yeah by pumping i meant threshold braking. couldnt think of the term!!
pumping is way too harsh. no way in hell i'd do that!

[adey]

But... but... Takumi pumped his brakes on that downhill battle with the BNR32 GTR and won! I think his manual ABS must be better than threshold braking...

:o

Pumping the brakes, while possibly "upsetting" the chassis, is only (AFAIK) meant to be applied to street driving where slightly upsetting your chassis won't have as severe a result as it would if you were trail braking into a high speed corner with 2 cars hot on your tail. ;) That said, pumping brakes usually isn't as effective as the threshold braking that we all speak so highly of, but I think this form of "manual abs" is a good thing to know how to do...

[ruf]

No he didn't. He just braked at the limit of his traction. No pumping. The reference to "human ABS" is in regards to his ability to manage his traction between braking and steering to switch from the outside to the inside line without locking up. It's actually pretty hard to do. Most people will overload the front tires with braking and steering input and end up with massive understeer.

Pumping is a passive form of threshold braking. It's just making sure that at least some time, you are UNDER the threshold instead of staying locked up. Kinda pointless if you ask me. You should have at least some sense of what the brakes are doing through the brake pedal.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by ruf
Most people will overload the front tires with braking and steering input and end up with massive understeer.

Heh... sounds like what happened on occasion last year autoxing my car. The Q45 brakes seem to be MUCH better, easier to feel once you're used to them and a 17/16" MC, and the bias seems better also (man the old stock rears were small....).
Point being: stock brakes suck, and aren't as consistent :p

[Dark]

I guess the next step now is to improve the resposiveness of the brakes I would like to get more feedback. I already know about Stainless lines but untill now I didn't know about brake booster brace I tried to do a search but didn't find anything for the 240 can someone tell me where I can get one. Taking the mush out of the brakes is my number one priority now.