Bush takes aim at Obama policies **political warning**

[SimpleS14]

Yes, I'm aware everyone is entitled to their opinions and the remarks from Bush would be no different than the average Joe. I just think it's funny how he says he's not going to criticize his successor, yet that is exactly what he's doing. :keke:

I will admit he does bring up a valid concern about universal healthcare, but we don't know for sure how it's going to be panned out here in the states. I hope lessons can be learned from other countries that implemented such plans.

When he said this:
You can spend your money better than the government can spend your money.

I LOL'd because I instantly thought about TARP (which he signed in).


CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Bush takes aim at Obama policies « - Blogs from CNN.com (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/18/bush-takes-aim-at-obama-policies/)

I have a strong feeling RJF will post in this thread :keke:

[BustedS13]

they both have funny ears

'merica

[SimpleS14]

they both have funny ears

'merica


lol I thought I was the only one that noticed that

[Future240]

I hope no one is surprised. of course he is going to criticize Obama. He is from a different party. I believe he would have done the same with McCain. I mean he was shitted on for so long, so it is probably nice for him to be able to do the same to someone else.

Enter RJF

[BustedS13]

the demonization of opposing parties is really getting old, i thought it was cool when obama put Fox News on blast

[Future240]

the demonization of opposing parties is really getting old, i thought it was cool when obama put Fox News on blast

Agreed. I don't see why they blame each other for everything that is wrong. To me they are two paths to a similar end.

[ronmcdon]

Meh, pretty meaningless article.
Basically it notes that Bush doesn't agree w 3 things Obama does.
-universal healthcare
-gitmo & interrogation procedures
-gov't intervention into the economy (doesn't specify which aspect)
No details, specifics, or reasons why Bush disagrees with the stuff he mentions.

Because it came from CNN, I'm not going to take that source too seriously.
Difficult to say if Bush chose not to elaborate, or CNN chose not print the full speech.
Either way, it's inconsequential at best.
1 shitty media's attempt to discredit someone who doesn't have any credibility to begin with, isn't worth the time.

I will say that it's a bit harsh, dumb, & uncalled for Bush to say:
"At least my vice prez didn't shoot anyone on purpose".
Then again, Bush will be Bush.
Too bad there weren't any good 'Bushisms' (corny Bush 1 liners) in there.

[BustedS13]

Meh, pretty meaningless article.
Basically it notes that Bush doesn't agree w 3 things Obama does.
-universal healthcare
-gitmo & interrogation procedures
-gov't intervention into the economy (doesn't specify which aspect)
No details, specifics, or reasons why Bush disagrees with the stuff he mentions.

Because it came from CNN, I'm not going to take that source too seriously.
Difficult to say if Bush chose not to elaborate, or CNN chose not print the full speech.
Either way, it's inconsequential at best.
1 shitty media's attempt to discredit someone who doesn't have any credibility to begin with, isn't worth the time.

I will say that it's a bit harsh, dumb, & uncalled for Bush to say:
"At least my vice prez didn't shoot anyone on purpose".
Then again, Bush will be Bush.
Too bad there weren't any good 'Bushisms' (corny Bush 1 liners) in there.

which do you consider to be a credible news outlet?

[ronmcdon]

BBC and Wall Street Journal (the actual paper, not the internet) is pretty fair & well written imo.
Best thing to do ideally would be to read as many sources as you can & make up your own mind.

I wouldn't necessarily discount CNN entirely.
I just wouldn't use them as my only news source & take everything they say seriously.

[flip3d]

"At least when my vice president shot somebody, it was an accident," Bush said.


lawl. :)

1111

[imotion s14]

I will admit he does bring up a valid concern about universal healthcare, but we don't know for sure how it's going to be panned out here in the states. I hope lessons can be learned from other countries that implemented such plans.

It's gonna turn out just it has in other countries ie rationing of health care. These clowns just don't see any alternative to this other then government involvement when it was government involvement that cause health care cost to rise. You ever hear them talk about how illogical it is to tie insurance to your job? Guess who started that?

Government. HMO Act of 1973.

But they rarely ever admit to being wrong on anything despite reality.

[RJF]

It's about time something was said and he didn't personally criticize Obama, unlike President ThinSkin, who takes every opportunity to say "I inherited this mess"

1. This economy is all on Obama now. His $787Billion stimulus was supposed to cap unemployment at 8%, we're at 9.4% and rising. Interest rates are already rising and inflation will probably kick in soon.

2. His spending and waste has raised the deficit to $10 Trillion+ over the next 10 years. How do you think that'll be paid for? Printing money = inflation and higher taxes on everyone

3. Foreign Policy - With his worldwide "Apology Tour" he makes us look weak. The North Koreans are laughing at us and accelerating their nuke program and launching missiles left and right. What happens when they launch something towards California or Hawaii? Meanwhile Obama cuts the budget for missile defense.

Iran situation - He doesn't have the balls to come out and say that we support democracy and call into question the election results or condemn the murder of 8 protesters, plus he continues to legitimize the current regime.

4. Universal Health Care - Another $2 Trillion to insure 1/3 of the current uninsured, half of whom are illegal aliens. The government can't even run the existing programs (Medicare and Medicaid) and they want to create another monster. hell, the Post Office can't even break even and we're supposed to believe his socialized medicine plan is going to be revenue neutral.

5. Auto Industry - Since when is the government in in the business of running car companies. Maybe back in the USSR days. And his supposed structured bankruptcy - giving the unions 60% control of the companies. They are the ones who killed GM and Chrysler. Meanwhile legitimate bondholders (guaranteed in standard bankruptcy proceedings) lose all their investments.

6. Czars - technically violates US Constitution - All of the President's cabinet members have to be approved by the US Senate. Meanwhile these Czars are given the positions as political payback and require no Senate approval. Even Sen. Robert Byrd (Democrat) has raised this issue and says it violates the Constitution.

7. Control of Media - This latest ABC episode is a prime example. ABC is turning over their entire broadcast schedule on June 24th to the White House so they can sell their propaganda on socialized medicine as an infomercial. Meanwhile there will be be no dissenting views or even opportunities by opponents to express their opinions. This is what was called "State Controlled Media" in the Soviet Union and what Hugo Chavez does in Venezuela today.

8. Taxes - You better believe taxes are going up because its the only way he can pay for all this BS. If they don't increase income taxes, we'll be nickel-and-dimed on other taxes, suchs as the gasoline tax, tax on health care benefits, Cap & Trade Tax

More?

[ESmorz]

I want to be the Drug Czar.

Sounds like a villain from a bad 70's tv show.

[98s14inaz]

It's about time something was said and he didn't personally criticize Obama, unlike President ThinSkin, who takes every opportunity to say "I inherited this mess"

1. This economy is all on Obama now. His $787Billion stimulus was supposed to cap unemployment at 8%, we're at 9.4% and rising. Interest rates are already rising and inflation will probably kick in soon.

2. His spending and waste has raised the deficit to $10 Trillion+ over the next 10 years. How do you think that'll be paid for? Printing money = inflation and higher taxes on everyone

3. Foreign Policy - With his worldwide "Apology Tour" he makes us look weak. The North Koreans are laughing at us and accelerating their nuke program and launching missiles left and right. What happens when they launch something towards California or Hawaii? Meanwhile Obama cuts the budget for missile defense.

Iran situation - He doesn't have the balls to come out and say that we support democracy and call into question the election results or condemn the murder of 8 protesters, plus he continues to legitimize the current regime.

4. Universal Health Care - Another $2 Trillion to insure 1/3 of the current uninsured, half of whom are illegal aliens. The government can't even run the existing programs (Medicare and Medicaid) and they want to create another monster. hell, the Post Office can't even break even and we're supposed to believe his socialized medicine plan is going to be revenue neutral.

5. Auto Industry - Since when is the government in in the business of running car companies. Maybe back in the USSR days. And his supposed structured bankruptcy - giving the unions 60% control of the companies. They are the ones who killed GM and Chrysler. Meanwhile legitimate bondholders (guaranteed in standard bankruptcy proceedings) lose all their investments.

6. Czars - technically violates US Constitution - All of the President's cabinet members have to be approved by the US Senate. Meanwhile these Czars are given the positions as political payback and require no Senate approval. Even Sen. Robert Byrd (Democrat) has raised this issue and says it violates the Constitution.

7. Control of Media - This latest ABC episode is a prime example. ABC is turning over their entire broadcast schedule on June 24th to the White House so they can sell their propaganda on socialized medicine as an infomercial. Meanwhile there will be be no dissenting views or even opportunities by opponents to express their opinions. This is what was called "State Controlled Media" in the Soviet Union and what Hugo Chavez does in Venezuela today.

8. Taxes - You better believe taxes are going up because its the only way he can pay for all this BS. If they don't increase income taxes, we'll be nickel-and-dimed on other taxes, suchs as the gasoline tax, tax on health care benefits, Cap & Trade Tax

More?

^truth :bowdown: :bow: I don't have anything to add to the above statement.

[BustedS13]

legalize weed lol

[SochBAT]

Legalize:

Weed
Prostitution
Pimping.

It is that e-zayy.

[BustedS13]

i heard Weekly World News found Bat Boy

why hasn't Obama said anything about it

[SochBAT]

^^

Really? Didn't Batboy's family disown him and sell him to slavery?

Did you read the article about discovering Atlantis? They say its perfectly able to be repopulated.

[lucky7]

i heard on the local news today that michigans unemployment is up to 14.1%... and they're expecting it to get even worse.

[theronin]

Obama for change!!!!

[hopeless.s13]

im sorry but obama is a dumbass. IMO of course. but that opinion is definitely growing.
...the problem is that everyone is still stuck on "OMG bush SUCKS, i hatez bush administrationz" and they cant seem to realize that obama is doing even worse.

i mean, think about it. obama has been in office for less than half a year, and we have NUMEROUS red flags, which i dont need to restate, thanks to 98s14inaz's post. at least bush took 8 years to screw things up.

oh and by the way, i remember how people were complaining that bush's spending plan was "an outrage" and "preposterous" and yet we sit here and watch obama spend 3 times as much and do half the work. all talk, no game.

[RJF]

Oh, almost forgot how he's thrown our only truly ally in the Middle East, Israel, under the bus, meanwhile Hamas still says their goal is the "destruction of Israel" and Obama tells Israel they need be flexible and work with the Palestinians.

[BustedS13]

at least bush took 8 years to screw things up.


you were about 11 when bush was in office, so i'll go ahead and remind you.

VlgTE3y3MNc

you see, in september of 2001, there was a terrorist attack on our country. you may have heard people refer to a "9/11", well, they're not talking about who you call when your cat is stuck in a tree.
you see, on this "9/11", a plane was flown into what was called the World Trade Center, which was once the tallest pair of buildings in New York City. and at the time, George Herbert Walker Bush was hanging out with some kids, reading them a book. which is cool of him to do. but when someone came and told George what had happened, instead of reacting and leaving, he just sat around and kept reading to the kids, like nothing had happened.
and then, about a year and a half later, he went ahead and put all our troops in Iraq. they're still there. now, we went in because he was informed that a man named Saddam Hussein had "weapons of mass destruction", which he didn't. i'm not saying that Saddam wasn't a bad guy. he was, and now he's dead, and that's fine. but we blew up half the country along the way, and we've lost over 4,000 of our own men and women doing so. we've also had about 30,000 wounded. we're also still there. and we're there because of a lie. maybe George knew it was a lie, maybe he didn't. but we're still there for no reason. and we might be making great change over there and that's great. but we didn't really need to, and now we're about 4,000 young men and women short of where we should be, and that's a goddamn shame.
so yeah, I guess you're right, Bush didn't screw up anything until 2008 at the end of his term. sure.
and by the way, we knew about the 9/11 attacks before they happened. i'm not saying we caused them. i'm not saying it was an "inside job". i'm not asking you to count your "loose change". because that's all a bunch of bullshit. but we didn't do anything to stop it.

[hopeless.s13]

you were about 11 when bush was in office, so i'll go ahead and remind you.
....you may have heard people refer to a "9/11", well, they're not talking about who you call when your cat is stuck in a tree.

hey thanks for the pointless insult.

in any case, youre right, the iraq war could most definitely been avoided, and by all means it was rather unnecessary.
i suppose my phrasing should have been changed because when i said he took 8 years to screw things up, i was mainly referring to our nation's economy.

about bush reading to the kids... would you have immediately removed yourself from your position and made a fuss about it? (consider the fact that the country isnt run by the president alone)
so im not really butthurt about that, even though he could have easily excused himself and said "dont be alarmed children, its merely a matter of national security, our story ends here"

now back to what i said earlier. why are we talking about bush? its over, hes gone, nobody liked him.
obama could turn out to be worse. shouldnt we worry about that together?

and to be truly honest, i would have to say that in a sort of way, im glad that we put out an attack against saddam, because it was an act of self defense. its better than going around and publicly apologizing for our nation's "arrogance"
of course not everyone will agree on this, but once we get nuked by N.Korea and Kim's brainwashed army, are we still going to be apologizing?
to quote bush from that video - "the role of the commander in chief [pause] is to respond forcefully... to prevent other attacks from happening"

[BustedS13]

hey thanks for the pointless insult.

in any case, youre right, the iraq war could most definitely been avoided, and by all means it was rather unnecessary.
i suppose my phrasing should have been changed because when i said he took 8 years to screw things up, i was mainly referring to our nation's economy.

about bush reading to the kids... would you have immediately removed yourself from your position and made a fuss about it? (consider the fact that the country isnt run by the president alone)
so im not really butthurt about that, even though he could have easily excused himself and said "dont be alarmed children, its merely a matter of national security, our story ends here"

now back to what i said earlier. why are we talking about bush? its over, hes gone, nobody liked him.
obama could turn out to be worse. shouldnt we worry about that together?

and to be truly honest, i would have to say that in a sort of way, im glad that we put out an attack against saddam, because it was an act of self defense. its better than going around and publicly apologizing for our nation's "arrogance"
of course not everyone will agree on this, but once we get nuked by N.Korea and Kim's brainwashed army, are we still going to be apologizing?

maybe your phrasing was wrong, i don't know. but bush had a lot of things fucked up by the middle of his first term.
and we're not going to get hit by a north korean nuke. put that baby to bed. you think obama is like "hey, military, i have no balls, so don't guard the country, k"?
no matter what obama SAYS to other countries about their own bullshit, we are not in any danger of being hit with anything.


anyway. i think it'd be really cool if they fired up the Enola Gay and just took it for a cruise in North Korean airspace. just for the hell of it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/The_enola_gay.jpg

"yeah, hey, what's up, remember what happened the last time somebody fucked with hawaii"

[SochBAT]

"OHHH! Big man! USA BIG PRANE!!! NO MORE MEESAILS! AMERICA BIGGO PENIS!"

[jilo]

this is the way i see it. and feel free to throw me in the fire.
i try to stay out of politics lately because it depresses the hell out of me. i really truly beleive the only way for any actual change for the better to happen we need a revolution once again.

voting does shit to "change our country" i got this idea from the first bush election.
to me voting is like asking a bully nicely to stop kicking you in the head. if he does stop hes only gonna hand you off to another goal kicker. no body ever gives up thier power easily. it has to be taken. we the citizens are pretty low on the totem pole of power so were fucked on that one.

the people who actually control our country do not give a fuck about us. its about money and control. im not saying that fixing our current problems is an easy thing that can be done just by "being a good person", the answer to our problems is a complicated one but i can sure see that we dont really matter much to people who make choices for us. importiant choices are consistantly made in favor of the few instead of the many.
the way we as humans live now reminds me alot of the time when kings ruled. but now the kings got smarter and better at lieing and spread out their power so their rule was harder to sway/destroy.

there is most likely an agenda to this shit. all things happen for a reason and im sure theres one for the current economic crisis. one world gov? one world dollar? maybe, you never know. the way i see it, the world is basically ripe for the picking and the ones in power hae to do something to occupy thier time, so why not rule the world, slowly but surely. im not even gonna think too much farther into that type of stuff. theories are what google is for , pick which one you believe the most. what shape fits in the hole type of thing.

obama may be the antichrist. who knows stranger things have happened. if not hes just gonna be the same as all the other fucked up leaders. why not strive for perfection.

the us has serious firepower and retards that like to fight are running the ship, so basically just sit back and watch. from far away.

and most of all, as far as i see it obama, bush, politics in general, are just there to give you somehting to look at and take your attention away from what is actually occuring in the world. actors in a very large scale play. think about it, all that money, technology, and wits. the larger countrys are out there doing some outlandish shit that we dont know about, so obama an bush talking shit really matters about as much as my opinions. they dont. we as people arent ever going to know whats actually going on. so dont sweat it untill it comes. but dont just do everything youre told either, actually live by your morals and consience. live for youreself and dont be a retard in other words.

this is why i hate politics they make me crazy.flame suit on.

[98s14inaz]

Oh, almost forgot how he's thrown our only truly ally in the Middle East, Israel, under the bus, meanwhile Hamas still says their goal is the "destruction of Israel" and Obama tells Israel they need be flexible and work with the Palestinians.
That part is truly sad. Israel and the nation of Islam remind me of a road trip with two brothers in the back seat setting off car bombs on each other and then blaming each other when dad turns around to smack one of them. We need to support Israel but...the Palestinians have the right to exist too. A compromise needs to be made on both sides. He shouldn't have thrown Israel under the bus though.

[ronmcdon]

Well, we have been and still are giving Israel billions of aid each year.
For giving them that much money, we have every right to criticize them & 'should' have more control over their decisions.
Best case scenario is not give them $$$ at all, and not meddle in their (or their neighbor's) affairs.
We have enough on our plate as is.

With regards to Obama's foreign policy, I agree with some things, not with everything.
You have to figure you already have your resources spread thin across Iraq, Afghan, and neighboring Pakistan alone.
Put off things you can put off, & focus on more immediate concerns.

Improving relations with Russia was was wise.
It's really not in the best interest of either country right now be at odds.

Ignoring N. Korea was agreeable.
Kim Jong Il just wants attention and $.
Don't give him what he wants.
He is also Asia's problem.
China just needs clean up their own mess here.

I don't agree with Obama giving Palestine $900 mill in aid $ to rebuild.
What's the point?
It's like helping them rebuild stuff that'll just get blown up again eventually.
It's a waste of resources
Either you prop Israel all the way, or just get the hell out of there.

[Matej]

CNN could have gotten a better article out of RJF.

[BustedS13]

I am the voice of my own god. And my god did... I told the librarian that I had a bad
headache, but she didn't believe me. I really do have a bad headache, though. I have a very bad headache!

[ESmorz]

The Shining Beacon of Hope and Politics Has Spoken.

So does everyone know that there have been 77+ Tornadoes this year already? Crazy. The Earth will expunge us before our politics do.

[Ethix]

It really doesn't matter who the president is. They're going to fuck it all up one way or another. When you vote, you're basically just voting for a mask. This one is wearing the mask of the republican and this one is wearing the mask of the democrat and neither one is even remotely qualified to have the amount of power that they are given as president.

The best we can hope for with each new president is some intelligent ideas from their advisors and luck.

I voted for Obama for 2 reasons:
1) I didn't want 4 more years of the Republican party. They had their shot and they mostly failed.
2) I could never vote for a party that chose Palin as VP out of all other possible candidates. To me the President and VP should be the BEST (smartest, most experienced, well respected, etc) possible candidates. I find it hard to believe that there were no other Republican candidates that could've run. Shit, RJF sounds like 10x smarter than her.

Now I'm just hoping for a miracle. That's probably what it's going to take to fix the economy.


Also, I approve of Bush commenting on Obamas policies. He was the President and he's earned that right. IMO

[RJF]

Please...Joe Biden is supposedly smarter than Sarah Palin...NOT

He's dumber than a box of rocks and has never anything in his life other than be in the Senate. At least Sarah Palin is Governor and manages one of our largest, most important states (domestic oil).

I wouldn't be surprised if Biden's Secret Service codename is "Assassination Insurance". As bad as I dislike Obama's policies and what he is doing to this country, we'd be royally screwed if anything happened to him and Biden became President. Be afraid, be very afraid.


Now I'm just hoping for a miracle. That's probably what it's going to take to fix the economy.

Cutting corporate and personal income taxes and stopping this out of control spending would fix the economy. Wouldn't you spend more if your paycheck was bigger, same principle for businesses.

[Matej]

What can I do to feel safe again? I do not want to spend my life living in fear. :(

[ESmorz]

Buy a gun.

Oh wait, we takin all your gunz.

Oh wait.

[Ethix]

Cutting corporate and personal income taxes and stopping this out of control spending would fix the economy. Wouldn't you spend more if your paycheck was bigger, same principle for businesses.


If only it were that easy.

[mRclARK1]

It's gonna turn out just it has in other countries ie rationing of health care. These clowns just don't see any alternative to this other then government involvement when it was government involvement that cause health care cost to rise. You ever hear them talk about how illogical it is to tie insurance to your job? Guess who started that?

Government. HMO Act of 1973.

But they rarely ever admit to being wrong on anything despite reality.

Take it from someone who lives in a country with socialized medicine... It usually means exactly that. Rationing.

People here die waiting for treatment. My mother, brother in law and several friends all work in the medical field and they'd all agree. Either way, people die. Either cause they can't pay, or they have to wait. But at least one way your taxes don't go up along with the government deficit. Sounds cold, but welcome to life. IMHO the ideal system is a hybrid of the two... Some people pay, some don't. Some treatments are free, others are not. Prioritize and budget and charge accordingly as best as possible. Still messy, but better than the alternatives.

It's about time something was said and he didn't personally criticize Obama, unlike President ThinSkin, who takes every opportunity to say "I inherited this mess"

1. This economy is all on Obama now. His $787Billion stimulus was supposed to cap unemployment at 8%, we're at 9.4% and rising. Interest rates are already rising and inflation will probably kick in soon.

2. His spending and waste has raised the deficit to $10 Trillion+ over the next 10 years. How do you think that'll be paid for? Printing money = inflation and higher taxes on everyone

3. Foreign Policy - With his worldwide "Apology Tour" he makes us look weak. The North Koreans are laughing at us and accelerating their nuke program and launching missiles left and right. What happens when they launch something towards California or Hawaii? Meanwhile Obama cuts the budget for missile defense.

Iran situation - He doesn't have the balls to come out and say that we support democracy and call into question the election results or condemn the murder of 8 protesters, plus he continues to legitimize the current regime.

4. Universal Health Care - Another $2 Trillion to insure 1/3 of the current uninsured, half of whom are illegal aliens. The government can't even run the existing programs (Medicare and Medicaid) and they want to create another monster. hell, the Post Office can't even break even and we're supposed to believe his socialized medicine plan is going to be revenue neutral.

5. Auto Industry - Since when is the government in in the business of running car companies. Maybe back in the USSR days. And his supposed structured bankruptcy - giving the unions 60% control of the companies. They are the ones who killed GM and Chrysler. Meanwhile legitimate bondholders (guaranteed in standard bankruptcy proceedings) lose all their investments.

6. Czars - technically violates US Constitution - All of the President's cabinet members have to be approved by the US Senate. Meanwhile these Czars are given the positions as political payback and require no Senate approval. Even Sen. Robert Byrd (Democrat) has raised this issue and says it violates the Constitution.

7. Control of Media - This latest ABC episode is a prime example. ABC is turning over their entire broadcast schedule on June 24th to the White House so they can sell their propaganda on socialized medicine as an infomercial. Meanwhile there will be be no dissenting views or even opportunities by opponents to express their opinions. This is what was called "State Controlled Media" in the Soviet Union and what Hugo Chavez does in Venezuela today.

8. Taxes - You better believe taxes are going up because its the only way he can pay for all this BS. If they don't increase income taxes, we'll be nickel-and-dimed on other taxes, suchs as the gasoline tax, tax on health care benefits, Cap & Trade Tax

More?

I do not always agree with RJF, but this time I agree with pretty much all of the above.

The fact of the matter is most of the population today (especially of our predominant age group) is too stupid and ignorant to even comprehend or discuss, let alone deal with, any of the matters in society and politics today with any rational or logical sense. Half the responses in here only go to prove that.

I am seriously concerned for the future. Most of the fuck ups around my age today couldn't run a lemonade stand effectively, let alone a large business or government or stable family one day.

[Matej]

Take it from someone who lives in a country with socialized medicine... It usually means exactly that. Rationing.

People here die waiting for treatment. My mother, brother in law and several friends all work in the medical field and they'd all agree. Either way, people die. Either cause they can't pay, or they have to wait. But at least one way your taxes don't go up along with the government deficit. Sounds cold, but welcome to life. IMHO the ideal system is a hybrid of the two... Some people pay, some don't. Some treatments are free, others are not. Prioritize and budget and charge accordingly as best as possible. Still messy, but better than the alternatives.
Just because the 'socialized' healthcare in your country sucks does not mean that is how it is everywhere else.

And personally I would still take Canada's healthcare over this insurance extortion any day.

[RJF]

Just because the 'socialized' healthcare in your country sucks does not mean that is how it is everywhere else.

And personally I would still take Canada's healthcare over this insurance extortion any day.

Do you want the government deciding what treatment you can get and when you can get it?

Even if you can pay for every cent of your healthcare, it will be rationed. How do you think they'll cut costs?

BTW, didn't Obama promise that healthcare would be the same type of plan that Senate and Congress has? Wonder where that went? THink about it, if you had 250 million people paying for the plan of about 535 people, you bet that plan would be gold-plated.

[Matej]

Do you want the government deciding what treatment you can get and when you can get it?

Even if you can pay for every cent of your healthcare, it will be rationed. How do you think they'll cut costs?
That is not how it works when the system is thought-out and efficient.

Although I do believe that the US government would most likely screw it up, because it always puts money before people. That is why I do not see a truly efficient healthcare system in America's future, whether it be 'socialized' or not.

[theicecreamdan]

Oh wait, we takin all your gunz.



No you're not.

[mRclARK1]

Just because the 'socialized' healthcare in your country sucks does not mean that is how it is everywhere else.

And personally I would still take Canada's healthcare over this insurance extortion any day.

Actually it doesn't suck... It's considered one of the best in the world. People still die waiting however. Mostly due to diagnosis equipment being to scarce. IE: Surgeries are often done in a timely manner once it's known if it's needed, for shall we say a tumor. However it may have taken 6-12 months on a waiting list in order to use the MRI that found the tumor.

I'm not saying any one system in Canada or the US is better. They both have flaws. They both have big ones. I just do not see a fully socialized system like Canada's working in the US. The cost is too high and the user demand too great. The financial cost would be staggering. Forget the bailout amounts being high... That might be a one year budget for a complete social health care system in America.

[drftmark]

Actually it doesn't suck... It's considered one of the best in the world. People still die waiting however. Mostly due to diagnosis equipment being to scarce. IE: Surgeries are often done in a timely manner once it's known if it's needed, for shall we say a tumor. However it may have taken 6-12 months on a waiting list in order to use the MRI that found the tumor.


That is an oxymoron of an IE.

The surgeon can not operate until you get diagnosed in the first place, which takes an MRI.

So how is that timely?

[mRclARK1]

That is an oxymoron of an IE.

The surgeon can not operate until you get diagnosed in the first place, which takes an MRI.

So how is that timely?

Granted yes it is an oxymoron, but you get the point.

To rephrase would be to say that they're done in a timely manner once a diagnosis is made. The problem isn't so much that diagnosis is made and surgery takes weeks or months to happen (although there are cases of that as well). The length of time one waits for diagnosis is, generally, where the problem is.

Ask my sister who had to wait around for months to find out her daughter, my niece, had cancer. She was lucky and it was still found in time and she appears to have fully recovered... Others aren't so lucky and even several doctors have gone on record saying wait times in Canada kill patients.

[RJF]

Why is having to wait 6 months to have a high-end diagnostic test (MRI, CATscan, etc) a good thing?

6 months could mean the difference between life and death. Our system now allows anyone to get a test asap, depending on course on the equipment availability schedule. What do you think will happen when the government has to approve every test. There's your six months.

Plus something else to consider, how many companies are going to invest in million dollar equipment if the government caps what they are going to get reimbursed for each test? They need to have a business case to justify that expense and be able to pay it back in a reasonable time.

The medical and healthcare industry is a business and those companies have salaries to pay, rents and other expenses. If government bogs down the industry with bureaucracy and higher costs for doctors to do business, plus capping what they can earn, what would motivate them and why deal with it, resulting in shortages of doctors and equipment.

[ryguy]

What I don't understand is why everybody in America thinks they're entitled to health care. I believe it's something you should have to earn. The government has no business even thinking about meddling in healthcare. Socialized healthcare is, to me, no better than welfare.

I pray Obama doesn't get re-elected. It doesn't matter how bad Bush screwed up on world relations, war, etc. Money is what makes the world go round, and Obama has us seriously fucked in that department.

Not to mention, Obama has no balls. He will be trying to hold North Korea's hand, asking politely for them not to make nukes, until the day Hawaii is wiped off the map. I honestly believe he will take no proactive steps in this situation. He's too politically correct.

[98s14inaz]

If only it were that easy.

It is that easy, greed makes it hard. Greed is the absolute worst sin and will eventually destroy us. We just can't get past it.

[mRclARK1]

^^^ Truth. So many of the worlds problems, past tragedies and afflictions are a result of greed in some form.

Just FYI as well... Health care in Canada is NOT completely free. Most things are yes, but some places still charge minimal user fees etc. and the cost of things like dental, eye care, and prescription drugs are still the responsibility of the individual. People in Canada still have a degree of health insurance.

The US actually spends more than Canada on health care already without a socialized system.

Canadian and American health care systems compared - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared )

That is a good read. However one part I don't believe is the section on wait times. Having experience in both health care systems as a patient, as well as several family members who work in health care... I know of FAR too many cases of people waiting far longer than they state in that article.

Do not get me wrong. I am NOT saying that the US should not adopt a degree of universal or social health care model... I'm only saying a full blown socialized system that's 3/4 publicly funded is not, IMHO, the right decision. Even Canada has allowed a certain level of private health care to exist again and some things have begun to improve as a result.

[imotion s14]

Why is having to wait 6 months to have a high-end diagnostic test (MRI, CATscan, etc) a good thing?

6 months could mean the difference between life and death. Our system now allows anyone to get a test asap, depending on course on the equipment availability schedule. What do you think will happen when the government has to approve every test. There's your six months.

Plus something else to consider, how many companies are going to invest in million dollar equipment if the government caps what they are going to get reimbursed for each test? They need to have a business case to justify that expense and be able to pay it back in a reasonable time.

The medical and healthcare industry is a business and those companies have salaries to pay, rents and other expenses. If government bogs down the industry with bureaucracy and higher costs for doctors to do business, plus capping what they can earn, what would motivate them and why deal with it, resulting in shortages of doctors and equipment.

The current system is just as bad as socialize healthcare. Make no mistake about that, government is already tentacle raping the current system. 2/3rd of every health care dollar is spent by Government. What does it matter if the government is paying or a private insurance is paying? It's still a middle man. And there in lies the cause of the rising cost.

Health care before Government red tape use to be you had insurance for catacylsmic emergency and you paid out of pocket for everything else.

Now it's akin to getting car insurance that covers accidents, maintance and everyday wear and tear. How much would it cost if that was the case?

Insurance is a way to pool risk, not to subsidize health care cost.

[Ethix]

It is that easy, greed makes it hard. Greed is the absolute worst sin and will eventually destroy us. We just can't get past it.


It's more than just greed. It's also differences of opinions. The idea of cutting spending and taxes is great, but where do you cut the spending? Where is the government going to get the money they need once you've cut taxes? That's where it gets difficult.

I don't know. I slept through most of my macro-economics class and passed with like a C-. I'm the last person who should be talking about fixing the economy.

[RJF]

I don't know. I slept through most of my macro-economics class and passed with like a C-. I'm the last person who should be talking about fixing the economy.

Suggest anyone interested, do some research into supply-side economics.

These are the principles that Ronald Reagan used to restore the economy in the early 80's and what GW Bush did after 9/11 to keep the economy from going into a worse recession.

[ryguy]

Suggest anyone interested, do some research into supply-side economics.

These are the principles that Ronald Reagan used to restore the economy in the early 80's and what GW Bush did after 9/11 to keep the economy from going into a worse recession.

And that's the problem here- obama has killed supply side economics by propping up trillions of dollars worth of bad assets and forcing banks to issue credit, which was what killed the economy in the first place.

[b-s14]

hmm

i was at my local DMV the other day, and there was a small protesting going on against Obama and his "health care" bill or idea, something of that nature. anyways, the bill was Obama's idea to look into stealing more money from social security for wall street. then the lady said something about Obama not caring for the sick-illed and old people.

it was called Obama's Nazi Health care plan i think, and it had a picture of him and hitler together.

[imotion s14]

Suggest anyone interested, do some research into supply-side economics.

lol.. why? It's junk macroeconomics.

Supply-side.. come on dude.

These are the principles that Ronald Reagan used to restore the economy in the early 80's

All he did was sweep the problems under the rug in the form of debt. But that debt was pretty manageable, but they kept pushing it off to the next President.

and what GW Bush did after 9/11 to keep the economy from going into a worse recession.

Greenspan lowered interest rates to 1% all that did was blow up an even large housing bubble and pushed the recession into the future (or our present). The housing bubble and NASDAQ/Internet bubble are inter-related and was the result of loose monetary policy.

The shallow recession in 2001/2002 is NOTHING to be proud of because all it did was postpone the crash and make it hurt even worse.

[flip3d]

Idiocracy is coming exactly as the movie went. Rednecks and Gangbangers spawning like rabbits while intelligent people are dying from heart attacks providing samples for In vetro fertilization.

[98s14inaz]

That is not how it works when the system is thought-out and efficient.

Although I do believe that the US government would most likely screw it up, because it always puts money before people. That is why I do not see a truly efficient healthcare system in America's future, whether it be 'socialized' or not.

They can't even turn a profit at the post office. What makes you think they can run a universal health care system?

[98s14inaz]

It's more than just greed. It's also differences of opinions. The idea of cutting spending and taxes is great, but where do you cut the spending? Where is the government going to get the money they need once you've cut taxes? That's where it gets difficult.

I don't know. I slept through most of my macro-economics class and passed with like a C-. I'm the last person who should be talking about fixing the economy.

Don't change the subject. I don't care about cutting taxes etc. I'm talking about wasteful spending and cutting from the wrong places. For example, AZ's new gov just passed our budget and surprise surprise every one working for state received cuts in their departments EXCEPT.......drumroll.....the governor's office and the rest of the legislature and senate. So education gets the axe again but the Govt who has been so good with out money gets to keep getting paid. It's the top 10% who can afford to pay fncking us in the ass. All of these companies getting bailouts too are on my list. At the end of 4 years you all will wish for men like Ron Paul who would have given us change in the right direction. Gold standard, flat tax for everyone, and not owing for a change. So frustrating watching this happen :smash:

[RJF]

They can't even turn a profit at the post office. What makes you think they can run a universal health care system?

:werd:

Also, look at Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Those are all operating in the red. Obama should try and fix those first before wasting trillions more.

[SimpleS14]

:werd:

Also, look at Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Those are all operating in the red. Obama should try and fix those first before wasting trillions more.


Are you against any of these being privatized or quasi-government ?

Just curious.

[ranger240]

that op bush quote is straight out of milton friedman's mouth. during his term bush wasnt the free marketeer that friedman was. Considering that the current administrations solution to everything is spending on a scale that dwarfs the last his objection is justifyable.

no one will ever remember bush as an economic genius but our current 1-2 punch of ridiculous government spending and condemnation of the private sector is dumb as hell, they arnt getting enough shit for digging us the long term hole we'll be in. objections from anyone are a welcomed addition.

[beeracing s14]

Legalize:

Weed
Prostitution
Pimping.

It is that e-zayy.

you forgot about legalizing all jdm engines too.

[imotion s14]

That is not how it works when the system is thought-out and efficient.

Although I do believe that the US government would most likely screw it up, because it always puts money before people. That is why I do not see a truly efficient healthcare system in America's future, whether it be 'socialized' or not.

How many times does a command economy model with it's "thought out" system have to fail for these idiotic ideas get buried? It doesn't matter what government runs that shit, it's always going to end up the same.

Markets are too complex for any 1 person, or even a group of smart people, or 1000 smart people to understand let alone plan it. How do you plan a system based on the individual decision of 217,000,000 adults in this country that changes every second with infinite variables?

[hopeless.s13]

http://www.youtube.com/v/kVFdAJRVm94&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0

satire FTW.

[SimpleS14]

http://www.youtube.com/v/kVFdAJRVm94&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0

satire FTW.


LOL :bowrofl:

[RJF]

Are you against any of these being privatized or quasi-government ?

Just curious.

I'm in favor of being able to take my Social Security contribution and managing that money myself, because right now none of us will ever see one penny from Social Security when we retire.

[Bigsyke]

I blame it on the people. People actually walk past me at work to specifically buy from my diverse co-worker. He knows nothing about the product, speaks unprofessionally on a catastrophic level, and has stolen CC/SSN #'s. Yet people keep flocking to him. Wonder why?

[imotion s14]

http://www.youtube.com/v/kVFdAJRVm94&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0

satire FTW.

You don't need satire to be funny, the truth can be funnier.

example:

YouTube - The Obama Stimulus: Predictions vs. Reality (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJu0DgpiK8c)

[unlegendary]

I'm in favor of being able to take my Social Security contribution and managing that money myself, because right now none of us will ever see one penny from Social Security when we retire.

seen it, it's not pretty.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I completely agree with RJF on the bailout. A good sign in the market is when the price of houses drop down to a very very reasonable amount. In 2000 the price of houses averaged about $100k in my area. The price quickly tripled and quadrupled. The sad thing about a bad economy is that people are going to HAVE to lose their homes to preserve the dollar. It's just what happens to people who made bad choices. It was obvious to me at 20 that this whole house of cards was going to crash, which is why I waited until the housing market got a little better to start a family, which is honestly the right and responsible thing to do. I just have no sympathy for people who lose their house because of bad loans. Sometimes some people are going to have to suffer for their actions, not get bailed out.

Now, is this ALL Obama's fault? Well, partly, yes. But wasn't the first $250billion loaned out by Bush to the banks with no restrictions? The bailout was supposed to cross party lines, yet the second Obama won the views of Republicans flipped.

Not only the bailout, but why aren't we out of Iraq? I'm pretty dissapointed in Obama thus far. And his comments on Iran.....give me a break. I just hope that he knows what he's doing.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I'm in favor of being able to take my Social Security contribution and managing that money myself, because right now none of us will ever see one penny from Social Security when we retire.
well, judging by the past 9 years, the majority couldn't manage their way out of a hole in the wall, let alone manage their own money for retirement.

[imotion s14]

well, judging by the past 9 years, the majority couldn't manage their way out of a hole in the wall, let alone manage their own money for retirement.

That doesn't justify the government running a ponzi scheme. SS will not be here when we retire. Even then every dollar you put into it, you only get a fraction back because of the inflationary monetary policy of the central bank.

[Koopa Troopa]

which do you consider to be a credible news outlet?
The Onion.


Best case scenario is not give them $$$ at all, and not meddle in their (or their neighbor's) affairs.
We have enough on our plate as is.

I don't agree with Obama giving Palestine $900 mill in aid $ to rebuild.
What's the point?
It's like helping them rebuild stuff that'll just get blown up again eventually.
It's a waste of resources
Either you prop Israel all the way, or just get the hell out of there.
Want to know what will happen if you take the leash off of Israel? The Middle East will disappear. Israel is highly trained, highly funded and their military doesn't take bullshit. Israel destroyed Egypt in a week, made a Syrian airbase disappear over night and have only been tolerating Palestinian terrorists because we keep them on a leash.

Obama gave Palestine $900 million? Glad my tax dollars are going to support terrorism. Thanks Obama.

As far as the war in Iraq? That was just Dick Cheney's get rich quick scheme.

Halliburton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton)

[Ethix]

Don't change the subject. I don't care about cutting taxes etc.

You commented on a reply I made about taxes and spending. That is the subject.

[RJF]

well, judging by the past 9 years, the majority couldn't manage their way out of a hole in the wall, let alone manage their own money for retirement.

That was the scare tactic used by the Dems when GW Bush recommended overhauling Social Security and allowing Private Accounts, but his recommendation specified that you could NOT put the majority into the stock market, but had to put the money in secure long-term funds and bonds with a guaranteed return.

Well, bonds are out the window now, especially since Obama screwed the people that held bonds in the car companies and gave the majority ownership to the unions, but that was Bush's plan to overhaul SS.

Right now, SS is nothing but a government-sponsored Ponzi scheme.

[SimpleS14]

I'm in favor of being able to take my Social Security contribution and managing that money myself, because right now none of us will ever see one penny from Social Security when we retire.

I agree....kinda like an IRA, just without the taxes.

[WanganRunner]

7. Control of Media - This latest ABC episode is a prime example. ABC is turning over their entire broadcast schedule on June 24th to the White House so they can sell their propaganda on socialized medicine as an infomercial. Meanwhile there will be be no dissenting views or even opportunities by opponents to express their opinions. This is what was called "State Controlled Media" in the Soviet Union and what Hugo Chavez does in Venezuela today.


^^
It's actually nothing at all like that, because in this case it's a private corporation willingly allowing said broadcast.

Nothing about it is "state controlled", the state isn't FORCING ABC or any other private corporation to do anything.

You've just got your panties in a bunch because ABC is doing this for the Obama WH but wouldn't do it in a million years for the Bush WH. Is that wrong? Maybe so, but nevertheless, your beef is with ABC, not with the WH.

[EDacIouSX]

It really doesn't matter who the president is. They're going to fuck it all up one way or another. When you vote, you're basically just voting for a mask.


how did reagon fuck it up?



fyi how many years of governmental experience does palin have in comparison to obama?

1 year.

now i suppose people are goign to throw their hands up in the air and say one's governmental experience was a better preparation than the other.....


Please...Joe Biden is supposedly smarter than Sarah Palin...NOT

He's dumber than a box of rocks

Remember this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8


i just have to laugh... That goes to show you what Biden thinks of obama haha.

[imotion s14]

how did reagon fuck it up?

He didn't fuck up per se, but he did sweep all the economic problems under the rug in the form of debt (about 1 trillion) which was manageable.

Cept every president after him just kept on passing the buck. Bush Sr did it relatively fast, Clinton slowed it down, Bush Jr stepped on the gas, and Obama hit the NOS button.

Now something that was manageable is now a boat anchor around the country's neck.

[RJF]

^^
It's actually nothing at all like that, because in this case it's a private corporation willingly allowing said broadcast.

Nothing about it is "state controlled", the state isn't FORCING ABC or any other private corporation to do anything.

You've just got your panties in a bunch because ABC is doing this for the Obama WH but wouldn't do it in a million years for the Bush WH. Is that wrong? Maybe so, but nevertheless, your beef is with ABC, not with the WH.

No, it's because they are not allowing opposing views to be heard. Several organizations against socialized healthcare wanted to purchase advertising before, during and after the Obama infomercial and ABC would not allow it. I'm sure that in exchange for ABC being "allowed" to air these programs the White House set certain conditions, among them no opposing views.

How is that not being like "state-controlled" media.

ABC can call itself the All Barrack Channel from now on.

Also, if you don't see that the entire media has a perpetual boner for Obama, you need to broaden your news viewing and reading choices.

[Grendel]

Also, if you don't see that the entire media has a perpetual boner for Obama, you need to broaden your news viewing and reading choices.

"The media" includes fox news too. A fact fox news can't seem to grasp. Watch O'Reilly or Beck, they are constantly calling out "the media" for bad reporting.

It's ridiculous.

O'Reilly. Hannity, Beck, Olberman, Maddow, etc. They all just stir up their target audience. Who knows if they believe the half truths and they spout during their shows. Hey, it gets ratings and thats what matters.

If you want real news, I'd say read BBC. Maybe BBC is slanted too, but they report on a lot more issues than our channels do.

Reddit/Digg/etc are decent news sources too. For ever 100 dick jokes or lolcats you will see a legitmate story that you hadn't heard before.

[RJF]

Yesterday's Obama love-fest, I mean press conference, was another example of this administration controlling the media, this time by planting questions and having a blogger from Huffington Post ask the question.

If White House considers HuffPo as a media organization we're screwed. These are the same hacks that celebrated and wished Bush's Press Secretary (Tony Snow) ill-will when he was diagnosed with cancer.

How about the stories that the media doesn't cover or covers-up?

1. Obama's illegal firing of the AmeriCorps Inspector General
2. The election fraud charges and indictments against Acorn and Obama's close ties to that organization

plus many more

[drftmark]

^ good point.

Obama ftl.

[98s14inaz]

...I'm pretty dissapointed in Obama thus far. And his comments on Iran.....give me a break. I just hope that he knows what he's doing.

Keep hoping lol :rofl:

[RJF]

So how's that change working out for you?

Top White House aide David Axelrod told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos today that the administration intends to explore a number of means by which it can overhaul the nation’s health care system, but refused to reaffirm then-candidate Barack Obama’s “firm pledge” to not raise taxes on middle class Americans.

“The president had said in the past that he does not believe taxing health care benefits at any level is necessarily the best way to go here,” said Axelrod. “He still believes that, but there are a number of formulations and we’ll wait and see.”

Obama has not always been open to “a number of formulations,” however. In fact, prompted by Republican accusations his tax plan would hurt middle class pocketbooks, Obama was quite adamant he would do no such thing. While campaigning in Dover, NH, Obama said, “Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”

Slow to fulfill campaign pledges or entirely reversing his position on others, the president has come under fire from the most loyal of Democratic Party activists, including the LGBT community and environmentalists, but waffling on his no-middle-class-tax-hike pledge stands to pit the irresolute president against a majority of the American voting public, not just disillusioned splinter groups.

After pressed on whether the president will draw “a line in the sand” by a persistent Stephanopoulos, Axelrod refused to take the bait and align the administration with any such ultimatum.

“One of the problems we’ve had in this town is that people draw lines in the sand and they stop talking to each other. And you don’t get anything done. That’s not the way the president approaches this,” he said.

The reason for President Obama’s now-obvious reticence to pursue campaign pledges—or make intractable ultimatums, for that matter—is quite simple. Keeping promises while juggling the competing interests of donors, activists, and voters is no simple feat. If you don’t make a promise, you can’t break it.

Then-candidate Barack Obama promised impossibilities—of a transparent government, of a new politics, of a hopeful and peaceful American—and performed little. Now-President Barack Obama promises nothing and yet he still performs little.

Administration Weighing New Middle Class Tax Increase - Jrichardson’s blog - RedState (http://www.redstate.com/blog/2009/06/28/administration-weighing-new-middle-class-tax-increase/)

[DeathMetal]

you forgot about legalizing all jdm engines too.

How about slowly and carefully putting responsibility into the average americans hands. Cars, drugs, alcohol, whatever....

To me, it would make more people stand up and object to breaking the law for the thrills or whatever compels them to do so. Obviously, if half of us weren't paying court costs and ref tickets and probation fees and so on and so forth, we'd be spending our money on things that are much more useful... less jails, more economical vehicles/less cops and lawyers, more scientists and doctors....so on and so forth...

Would be much more profitable.

Don't need to comprise some bullshit reasons to why this would help beyond what I said. But just ponder it...

[krissynbeau]

Obama sucks

[adam s]

Obama sucks

You seem to make some excellent points...

Either way you look at it, I've been out of a job for over 5 months now, gave up on the bullshit of finding one, started flipping cars, and am currently getting a dealers license.


Sure, starting a private business has probably never been harder than now, but who wants to work at Wendy's for the rest of their lives when every dealer in south TX is laying off techs right and left?

I am wholeheartedly against Obama, I'm not gonna lie, I was sucked in by his charisma and (now) bullshit, and I'm sorry I voted for him. :bash::bash::bash:

However, thats what happened, and now we just need to do the best with what we got.

[hopeless.s13]

Sure, starting a private business has probably never been harder than now, but who wants to work at Wendy's for the rest of their lives when every dealer in south TX is laying off techs right and left?

I am wholeheartedly against Obama, I'm not gonna lie, I was sucked in by his charisma and (now) bullshit, and I'm sorry I voted for him. :bash::bash::bash:

However, thats what happened, and now we just need to do the best with what we got.

yea unfortunately that really is the situation. i wonder how the 2012 election is going to go.
Good luck getting your SmallBiz going... im working on something of my own too because jobs are just too unreliable out here. I just wish more californians had that mentality.
small businesses are the foundation of the economy, for the most part. but its so difficult to start and maintain one today because of all the damned tax laws....

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

You seem to make some excellent points...

Either way you look at it, I've been out of a job for over 5 months now, gave up on the bullshit of finding one, started flipping cars, and am currently getting a dealers license.


Sure, starting a private business has probably never been harder than now, but who wants to work at Wendy's for the rest of their lives when every dealer in south TX is laying off techs right and left?

I am wholeheartedly against Obama, I'm not gonna lie, I was sucked in by his charisma and (now) bullshit, and I'm sorry I voted for him. :bash::bash::bash:

However, thats what happened, and now we just need to do the best with what we got.
Well, I think we would have been fucked either way. If McCain would have taken office Palin would have been on our TV's every day, preaching about how god rules and she follows god and what not. When a normal person I meet on the street mentions god, I'm ok with it but when a politician mentions god he's using god as a "do whatever the fuck I want to" card. I still think Ron Paul was the best choice, just wish those damn freaky 9-11 conspiracists would stay away from him.
speaking of Ron Paul, has anyone heard the amount of support that Ron Paul is getting for his bill to audit the Federal Reserve? Staggaring. He might be gaining steam!!!!

[adam s]

small businesses are the foundation of the economy, for the most part. but its so difficult to start and maintain one today because of all the damned tax laws....

Your telling me... at 19 years old, no one listens to you anyways haha, oh well, *shrugs*

Well, I think we would have been fucked either way. If McCain would have taken office Palin would have been on our TV's every day, preaching about how god rules and she follows god and what not. When a normal person I meet on the street mentions god, I'm ok with it but when a politician mentions god he's using god as a "do whatever the fuck I want to" card. I still think Ron Paul was the best choice, just wish those damn freaky 9-11 conspiracists would stay away from him.
speaking of Ron Paul, has anyone heard the amount of support that Ron Paul is getting for his bill to audit the Federal Reserve? Staggaring. He might be gaining steam!!!!

I'm not saying I would have voted for McCain haha, to be honest I don't really know.

Also, I'm a Christian, and I still get annoyed at the whole, "Im Mr. Blah Blah, listen to me cuz I talk to Jesus", bullshit...

And yes, Ron Paul/Constitution party FTMFW, just stay away you jew-conspirators haha

[johnEasy]

just lower the gas prices!

[imotion s14]

Well, I think we would have been fucked either way. If McCain would have taken office Palin would have been on our TV's every day, preaching about how god rules and she follows god and what not. When a normal person I meet on the street mentions god, I'm ok with it but when a politician mentions god he's using god as a "do whatever the fuck I want to" card. I still think Ron Paul was the best choice, just wish those damn freaky 9-11 conspiracists would stay away from him.

BUTBUTBUT RON PAUL IS A KOOK![/matej]

YouTube - Ron Paul discusses Austrian vs. Keynesian economics on Morning Joe 05/15/2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ3JNcMDWwg)

speaking of Ron Paul, has anyone heard the amount of support that Ron Paul is getting for his bill to audit the Federal Reserve? Staggaring. He might be gaining steam!!!!

Chances are it's gonna get watered down. But it's a step in the right direction for once.