Can someone make out what this mechanic meant to say about my suspension?

[240sxspeedracer1]

well, I went to this mechanic that I'm gonna have my shocks and springs installed for $180 and told him to check every aspect of my suspension so if I can buy what I have to buy now, instead of later. I drop it off and come back a little while later, he has my car in the air. He tells me I need the following things changed:

Rack and pinion(it was leaking somewhat and I can see the nasty residue thats left by that)
is the name of the bars that connect the rack and pinion to wheel that also has a bushing called the T/C rods? If so, do I really have to change everything(rack and pinion with T/C rods and bushings), or just the T/C rods and bushings?

Second, he said I needed to change the lower control arms.

Third, he said I needed to change the ball joints.... basically that's like a very generic term. What do you think he is referring to?

Fourth, he said I have to change the sway bars. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but if I have a base 1990, I shouldn't have stock sway bars. Maybe he meant I should buy some aftermarket ones.

Lastly, he said I have to change stabilizing bar links. I think he means somehting else cause I've never heard of this before, but I'll let you be the judge of that.

Thanks in advance, I really want to have a good performing suspension, and I don't want to be cheap either so I'll do what I have to do, thing is I trust people who actually have the car and know a lot about it way before I'll trust a mechanic who sees 1000 different cars a week.
Peace.

[Dousan_PG]

ok
1 dont trust mechanics. they WANT You to come back


start here
www.pdm-racing.com

rack and pinion
connects to wheel? sound like tie rod and ends.

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/suspension.html
very bottom
pdm doesnt have tie rods, i dont see how they can go bad though

tension rods (TC Rods)
http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/suspensiontc.html

lower control arm
possible bushing is bad:
http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/pdmcontrolarms.html

ball joints part of lower control arm-see above

sway bars? WTF bend over while your at it. i cn see the sway bar BUSHINGS, but not the actual sway bar! the bar links are where the rubber is, you can change that easily. they get floppy and soggy and flat over time. easy job.



i dont trust mechanics, and yours is a prime example.
you can change ALL THOSE yourself very easily. all it is is bolts! simple bolts. maybe need some basic specialty tools, but you can rent those (sometimes for FREE) and change it. you could do it ALL YOURSELF for faaaaaaaaaaaar less.

also do this for further proof

ask your mechanic how much EACH part costs (dont forget labor time)

now compare that w/ PDMs cost.


now who do you choose?

[huntz0r]

Ok the rack and pinion as you should know is the steering box. It's connected to the wheels via tie rods. T/C rods, which is short for tension/compression rods are separate. They connect the front of the front lower control arm to the chassis. They have gel-filled bushings on the front link to the chassis, which commonly rot out and leak, causing front end shimmy at higher speeds and wobbly steering response. You can replace the bushings with OEM goo-filled (bleh) or poly bushings, or replace the whole rod with an aftermarket piece.

I don't know why you would need to change out the lower control arms unless they have been damaged. There are 3 wear items there, however: two bushings where the arm connects to the suspension member, and the ball joint (most likely your third issue) which holds the wheel on.

I can never keep the sway bar issue straight, but I think you at least have a rear sway bar on a base S13, maybe both front and rear. The swaybar links are rubber pieces, he could mean either the links at the ends, where it connects to the lower control arms, or the bushings where the bar is attached to the bottom of the body. Those can wear out like any other bushing. No reason the bar itself should be bad though unless (like the front LCA) it was somehow damaged.

hope some of that helps

[240 2NR]

The tie rods connect to the wheel knuckle with a ball joint. Mine went bad (the boot split) and required replacement of the ball joint. It's a pretty cheap part that I actually got through Don but could have easily picked up locally (it's a MOOG part) for about the same price ~$30. The new tie rod ends are regreasable and would only require a new boot should they fail (as opposed to a new ball joint with the OEM ones).

As for the LCA, those also have ball joints at the knuckle, and I replaced those on my car as well (they were fine until I replaced my struts and broke one of the boots). These were a bit more at $50 each. Also they are made by the same company so both the MOOG and (some other company I can't recall the name of, help me Eric) are identical. That was nice feature since I could only find one of each at two different parts stores.

I also thought all S13's had swaybars. If you get under there and find out you don't, I think I still have two sets of swaybars and possibly the hardware and bushings in my friend's garage.

[sykikchimp]

It appears he asked the guy to suggest things to make the car better, as well as everything that needs to be replaced..

The TIE RODS which attach to the steering rack are not wear items. the TIE ROD ENDS however are, and do tend to bust open as Eric was saying.

This is the actual lower control arm:
http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/imag/suspension-13.jpg

The ball joint is the peice that sticks up on the left, and the bushing that breaks is the one that a bolt would slide through on the right.

The ball joint, and bushing could be bad, and need to be replaced. Look for broken cracked rubber, and Oozing goo..

If you buy a new lower control arm it should come with a new ball joint.. the control arm is $135 the ball joints are like $40 from Autozone.. not sure what the rear bushing costs...


Stabilizing Bar links = Swab bar end links.. They connect the sway bar to the lower control arm pictured above.. They could be bent, or the bushings could be worn out.

As far as him saying you need sway bars.. I think he might be making that suggestion as part of the suggestions for performance..

Eyeball all this stuff, and see if what he is saying is right.

[Yoshi]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
This is the actual lower control arm:
http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/imag/suspension-13.jpg
If you buy a new lower control arm it should come with a new ball joint.. the control arm is $135 the ball joints are like $40 from Autozone.. not sure what the rear bushing costs...


$135 w/o the joint?! WTF? Don sells them for $50 WITH joint, and they're brand new! What's autozone smoking?

[sykikchimp]

DOH.. I was thinking about the S13 control arm with the S14 ball joint.. my bad..

and Advanced auto was only 25.00 ea for the s14 ball joints...

[240sxspeedracer1]

I have excessive wheel shimmy when going slow, and when going fast. Also, excessive roll when turning. When I reverse and stop hard, I hear a loud popping sound. When I go to parallel park, I also hear a popping sound. Will any of these items(listed on bottom) that I'm planning on buying fix the problems I just mentioned?

side notes on suspension components...

rack and pinion is connected via tie rods. Tie rods dont get messed up, only tie rod ends.

T/C, or in other words tension/compression rods. they connect to lower control arm using the bolt side. The other side is the bushing side.


(all of these prices are from PDM, is there a cheaper place or are these the best deals I can get?)
things to buy:
1) front lower control arm bushing with polyurethane bushing pressed in.
$90 each. I need 2=$180

2) new t/c rods with the whiteline bushings installed.
$75 each. I need 2=$150

3)Moog tie rod ends
$37 each. I need 2=$74

4) I'm gonna order some e-bay front and rear STBs
~$70 for both shipped


Once again, I sincerely thank anyone and everyone who checked this out and is giving me such vital info for my car. My car's handling is worser than dog poop. Just recieved my AGX and pro-kits thank god(thanks go out to shox.com for the awesome price of 581 shipped), just awaiting you guys approval on what I should buy so I can go ahead and get the rest of the components.
Peace

[Yoshi]

If you have the $ for all that I say go for it... I have all those things on my car and I'm so grateful. S13s are pretty old now, and bushings are high wear parts, hopefully this puts you on the road to a great handling ride, the shocks and springs alone will be a night and day difference.

[deltrr]

that mechanic is totally taking advantage of you.

[logo20]

that mechanic is totally taking advantage of you.
I agree, before buying tie rod ends, control arms and t/c rods I would take it to at least one more mechanic, or take at look at those parts yourself-you'll probably recognize the bad parts.

[DSC]

"Can someone make out what this mechanic meant to say..."

I think he meant to say "bend over"

[240sxspeedracer1]

yeah, Im gonna take a look at it myself. Now that I've checked out many diagrams and read peoples posts I am kinda understanding suspension as a whole.
Anyway, I kinda figure it would be great to change these components no matter what. I mean, it could only make the suspension better so why not?

Im just wondering if I need to take care of anything else besides what I already listed three posts above this one, just a little feedback and I'll be fine, thanks.

[240 2NR]

Hey guys, now you're just assuming the worst of the mechanic. The initial post is vague about what he was really asking (what NEEDS to be done or what COULD be done) as well as the mechanic's reply. All of us have replaced every part he listed so where's the scam? He never mentioned prices or even offered to order him the parts as far as was noted. When I upgraded my suspension I pretty much ordered every part we listed and installed it at once while it was all apart instead of doing it slowly over time.

Now if he said it would cost $800 in labor plus parts, then the comments would be justified, but in terms of what the poster has said I can't agree (anthything else is just speculation and assumption).

While I've had and heard my share of bad expeiences, let's not assume this is one of them.

[uiuc240]

Yeah, and to add to that:

It's MUCH easier to do suspension parts all at once. Except for the sway bars, you have to take apart quite a few pieces to get the rest of it out. For instance, to get the shocks out, you'll need to disassemble all the same parts you would need to for replacing the tie rods/ball joints/LCA bushings/etc.

Only parts on the front suspension that can be replaced with the suspension FULLY together are: sway bars and TC rods. technically, you could even drive without them in a pinch, but it would be hella weird and unsafe. but if some how you broke either of these pieces, you could creep to a dealership without them. Can't do that with a missing shock/tie rod/ball joint.

Eric

[Yoshi]

Originally posted by uiuc240
Yeah, and to add to that:

It's MUCH easier to do suspension parts all at once. Except for the sway bars, you have to take apart quite a few pieces to get the rest of it out. For instance, to get the shocks out, you'll need to disassemble all the same parts you would need to for replacing the tie rods/ball joints/LCA bushings/etc.

Only parts on the front suspension that can be replaced with the suspension FULLY together are: sway bars and TC rods. technically, you could even drive without them in a pinch, but it would be hella weird and unsafe. but if some how you broke either of these pieces, you could creep to a dealership without them. Can't do that with a missing shock/tie rod/ball joint.

Eric

I disagree on the driving w/o your T/C Rods man, I tried that when I wrecked :/ The result was the wheel getting shoved into the wheel well, ouch! :)

[uiuc240]

Oh, trust me, I would NOT recommend it. Super weird handling, as the LCA is pretty much free to roam. I'm just saying that the TC rod and the sway bar are not load bearing (like the struts) nor are the directly related to steering and suspension movement (like the LCAs and the tie rods). However, they are definitely necessary. I was just babbling.

I'll stop now.

E

[Fastback180]

Okay I haven't read anyones replies. But I'll start off like this. My went into the shop this morning for a bent control arm and snapped T/C rod and bad ball joint. All due to a drifting accident. But hey, it happens.
You do not need to get new control arms or T/C rods unless they're bent or snapped. You only need to replace the bushings. I got my new control arm from PDM. And my T/C rod is off of a friends old S14. Yeah...DO NOT trust mechanics. I was so weary seeing my bute go off on that flat bed this morning. But then again, I will be so glad to drive it after so so long of sitting in my drive way.

Here's some love for ya...

http://www.fotango.com/p/eba00284982f00000035.jpg

[Yoshi]

Originally posted by uiuc240
Oh, trust me, I would NOT recommend it. Super weird handling, as the LCA is pretty much free to roam. I'm just saying that the TC rod and the sway bar are not load bearing (like the struts) nor are the directly related to steering and suspension movement (like the LCAs and the tie rods). However, they are definitely necessary. I was just babbling.

I'll stop now.

E

ahh, I gotcha, I think I partially misunderstood what you meant :)

Fastback180 - how come you didn't just save yourself a bunch of $ and do it yourself if you got the parts from Don? Way easy to change those parts out, just need a couple 17mm wrenches, a 19mm socket/ratchet and some elbow grease :)
hmm... maybe a 14mm too ;)

[Fastback180]

Cause maybe my tools, air compressor, and Craftsman impact couldn't get sh*t off. I had most everything off, my ball joint was stuck inside the spindle and I did everything to get it out, and all it did was move the strut assembly down. So I pretty much had to take it some where else. :(

[uiuc240]

that's what a BFH is for. :D

Eric

[zenki-ceza]

go to another shop, a performance shop. and make friends with them.

[deviousKA]

i think its cheaper to buy complete new control arms than to buy bushing and ball joint and much easier. to get that ball joint off your spindle just hit around where the tapered shaft is mounted with hammer, then tap it out ( that is the proper way, all you people with mushroomed balljoints i smack ya upside the head [bernie mac voice]).