New subframe bushings,there's still an issue

[upsdude]

Ok, so i take my car to the shop and get my old bushings pressed out, new energy bushings put it. Here's the problem...while the 2 bushings on the front part of the subframe (the part that's closest to the wheel well) are in fine, the rear ones...closest to the bumper, still have a gap. i took this picture hopefully it's clear enough:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3564/bushing.jpg

we double checked with www.frsport.com (http://www.frsport.com) since that's where i bought em...and they're the right part. tried to call and talk to someone but they were closed today. the clunk for the most part is gone. but when i downshift from 4th to 3rd is when i hear it again. it sounds different, like it's not as severe as before. my main question to you guys is: was there something else i was supposed to get with this? or should i just buy spacers and call it a day?

[Bigsyke]

simple, can you rotate the cups at all?

That should have a gap, I know you dont have that many threads on the studs. With those you can easily run out of threads and not know it, thus snapping the stud.

S14? werent you supposed to keep the OE inner shell? didnt the OE inner shell have a lip at the bottom, thus having to be pressed in from the top?

[upsdude]

it's an s14. the old oe bushings, inner shell and all from what i saw were one unit. i could be wrong. but, they were all chewed up from from being pressed out and unusable anyways. now when you say the 'cups'...what are you talking about? i don't know if the cups rotate or not, since the subframe was put back together by the time i went back to pick up the car. installation of these were done by hand...not me but the mechanic. he said they fit snug, but went in relatively easy. um, are these suckers supposed to be pressed in as well? because i'm starting to wonder if the machine shop that pressed the old ones out messed up those inner sleeves you just mentioned. oh boy...well if it turns out the inner sleeves were supposed to be retained, can those be bought by themselves?

EDIT: i found the pdf instructions for these things off the net. why they weren't included with the bushings i don't know. ugh looks like they forgot the inner sleeves/tabs that you mentioned.

[devnull]

They should have burned or cut out the rubber of the bushing and left the shell in the subframe.

I'm afraid you're boned at this juncture. You can't buy the bushing shells individually. You can probably roll with it this way for a while but probably need to go with an OE style bushing or solid bushings.

The gap in the picture you took is normal.

Also, ES sometimes forgets to put things in the packages...I was missing several washers in one item I bought from them.

[upsdude]

Ah ok thx for the info... If i put in one of those spacers will it help at all?

[devnull]

I think they might...I've never used subframe spacers so I can't be sure.

[upsdude]

Ya me either...just wondering if it would compensate for the missing sleeves

[Bigsyke]

Do you have the spacers? if not DO NOT buy them.

Yes, the cup is the large washer thing on the bottom of the bushing.

There doesnt seem to be a lip, which means they pressed out the shell from the bottom.

This is why Im not a fan of those ES bushings, since the lower bottom lip gets pretty F'ed up quickly.

I wouldve went solid, you have an S14, its way better, no viberations.

[upsdude]

i went with the ES since i heard the solids would make the ride really stiff...ah well, now i know...i think i'll just have to ride these out for a while then get some nismo bushings.

[aznpoopy]

that install is completely wrong. should've consulted energy suspension first. i know it sounds funny but with certain parts you really shouldn't trust a shop to know what to do.

http://www.energysuspension.com/pdf_instruc/17486.PDF

yes, you had to retain the oem metal shell with 6 pronged support ring intact.

it's a two piece bushing, one piece goes in from the top and another goes in from the bottom. both pieces have a protrusion that sits above and below the subframe. the 6 pronged oem support lip sits between the two halves.

the way you have it is junk. i would drop the subframe and remove the es bushings. you will probably not need a press. i did not putting them in. since doing it properly with es bushings requires the oe sleeve, i'd say that route is closed to you. pointless to buy another set of oe stuff just to torch it out to get the sleeve. go aluminum or nismo or whatever.

[Bigsyke]

Go aluminum, the "stiff" is BS. It rides like its supposed to. Your S14's subframe still has rubber diff mounts, which is where the noise/harshness comes from on the S13's. You still have rubber bushings on the arms, the aluminum just keeps the subframe exactly how it should.

No excuse not to do aluminum subframe bushings. Nismo is a complete waste of time/money when you can do it yourself. The nismos will tear over time aswell. Aluminum is a one time deal.

If the ride is harsh, the subframe isnt torqued down properly. You torque them down in a crisscross pattern, and as long as the subframe is torqued to 80lbs, there shouldnt be any vibrations or clunking like it would with OE bushings and or spacers/collars.

[upsdude]

Ok, so i've checked out Stance and SPL solid bushings-doesn't seem to be much difference between them besides one set is bronze colored. I've found a vid. on youtube that shows how to press these suckers on using a couple fat washers and a big bolt. just curious what kind of bold should i use? i don't wanna get one that'll snap trying to set these things in. Oh damn, just remembered something, i'm going to need an alignment too aren't I? I wonder if i can get them to do the new bushings at no cost since they've botched things so badly.

[Bigsyke]

Dont get SPL, there is a set from the advertisers section for $63 shipped. Those are perfect.

I used a rubber mallet to get em in, few taps and they were in real snug.

Use just any long bolt, doesnt matter.

[GSXRJJordan]

Go aluminum, the "stiff" is BS. It rides like its supposed to. Your S14's subframe still has rubber diff mounts, which is where the noise/harshness comes from on the S13's. You still have rubber bushings on the arms, the aluminum just keeps the subframe exactly how it should.

No excuse not to do aluminum subframe bushings. Nismo is a complete waste of time/money when you can do it yourself. The nismos will tear over time aswell. Aluminum is a one time deal.

If the ride is harsh, the subframe isnt torqued down properly. You torque them down in a crisscross pattern, and as long as the subframe is torqued to 80lbs, there shouldnt be any vibrations or clunking like it would with OE bushings and or spacers/collars.

AGREED 100%

I poly-filled mine, and used subframe collars (pineapples), and will be going full solid the next time I do work in the back - there's no downside on the S14.

I hate the fact that you basically have to have good condition OEM mounts for the ES bushings to work - if I had OEM bushings in good shape, I wouldn't need new ones! Solids are really the way to go.

[Bigsyke]

$63 shipped subframe bushings (http://zilvia.net/f/advertiser-specials-sales/242259-63-45-free-shipping-shifters-elbows-hotpipes-bushings-etc.html)

http://www.bings.ca/files/subframe%20bushings.jpg

Cant stress enough how godly these are.

Like im seriously flippin out how happy I am with these. Thats 1/2 of your car's suspension right there. When I get another S14 that will be the 1st thing I do when I roll up in the driveway. It gets me excited.


In fact im going to buy another S14 just to feel the before and after.....and smoke a victory newport after im done.

[lflkajfj12123]

also the pbm subframe risers which are what i bought

still been lazy to put them in

sort of a daunting task for me

[clark]

FYI i'm speaking from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. i'm not just a terd theorizing, i did this myself a few months ago.

from that picture something appears to be missing from the bottom part. basically there's three pieces to EACH bushing. the top larger part which goes in from the top, the inner metal sleeve, and the bottom part wich goes in from the bottom.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa231/unicoladron/IMG_2279.jpg

see the install pic, se how much bushing meat is peaking out from the bottom dude?

looks like they didn't put the bottom part in......

[slider2828]

Go aluminum, the "stiff" is BS. It rides like its supposed to. Your S14's subframe still has rubber diff mounts, which is where the noise/harshness comes from on the S13's. You still have rubber bushings on the arms, the aluminum just keeps the subframe exactly how it should.

No excuse not to do aluminum subframe bushings. Nismo is a complete waste of time/money when you can do it yourself. The nismos will tear over time aswell. Aluminum is a one time deal.

If the ride is harsh, the subframe isnt torqued down properly. You torque them down in a crisscross pattern, and as long as the subframe is torqued to 80lbs, there shouldnt be any vibrations or clunking like it would with OE bushings and or spacers/collars.

Hey Bigsyke, in your opinion on S13 chassis, do you think what you described noise and harshness also increases vibration especially after a 1 piece driveshaft installation? For some reason I just can't get certain vibrations out of my car after the 1 piece installation which only occur at certain rpms.

[Bigsyke]

Its the S13 diff thats causing the vibration IMO. I dont think the 1pc could cause any vibrations since they are balanced.

I have these installed and up to redline there is no vibrations out of normal - (like having an unbalanced driveshaft/flywheel, where the vibrations increase intensity as RPMs increase)

-JGS poly mounts
-Circuit sports Poly tranny mount
-1pc steel DS Driveshaft
-$63 solid bushings subframe
-Exedy clutch/PP OE version
-Fedenza 11lb aluminum flywheel.

All my wheels are balanced, rotors are new. The car doesnt have an increasing vibration at speed, thus I know the suspension is aligned and the wheels are balanced and hubcentric.

There is no increase of vibrations as RPMs increase, however at 900rpms there is cabin vibrations.

The only thing I can think of is the S13's diff mount, which doesnt use a rubber bushing on the rear. However I think improper fluid, and worn gears could cause play in the diff which could cause vibrations at speed.

This whole chainsaw deal must apply to welded diffs or something.

Id rock the amsoil 75w90 fully synthetic gear lube gl5 in the diff, and add some slip addative if your running vlsd.

Did you check the torque spec on the driveshaft bolts? Vibration is usually caused by excess movement. -there has to be play somewhere in the rear of the tranny or the diff. The 1pc shouldnt cause a vibration at a certain rpm unless something isnt balanced. Maybe I have a high tolorance to vibrations

[slider2828]

I'll try some slip additive.... About 70 mph there is some vibration and anywhere else its fine. I run a s14 diff with a 1/8" washer. Yeah maybe I don't have a high tolerance, but I went to amsoil, its the same... Hmmmm torque specs? hmmm maybe I will check that out.