fwd vs rwd, inputs appreciated

[transient]

Well, this was sparked from another thread, and I thought I should seperate the two. I'm greatly on the side of RWD, as i'm sure many here are, but i'd like to hear both sides. Here's a link to a discussion of the matter that I found via google.comhttp://www.corollaperformance.com/TechInfo/RWD.html

[sykikchimp]

RWD is technically more superior to all out performance.. but I think when it comes to street cars, it all depends on the engineering..

All I can say is Civics, and integras are fast as **** at the track with only minor upgrades..

[christopher]

Both are good formats IMO.

I personally like the rear wheel drive cars I have driven a bit more than the front.

Why ask the front wheels to do so much??? In hard cornering I feel like rear wheel drive is more stable(Grip driving.) I would love to feel the difference between front ENGINE and mid-engine, haven't tried that yet.

[Fastback180]

If it's FWD, it's not a sports car. And that's that. :king:

[transient]

Well, the original topic had nothing to do with AWD, but if people would like to bring that up, then hey, why not.

[DuffMan]

RWD is easier for me than FWD to drive fast, it seems to be more forgiving. That could just be because I have never owned a fwd car that had remotely good handling.

[weirdstyles.net]

I wrote a really long thread, and said f*ck it. Ill simplify.

Who ever here has never, and can guarentee wil never, be beat by a equally matched (HP/TQ) FWD car, can put this topic to rest. It is that simple.

Its all in the numbers and the drivers.


Personal choice: RWD, I like doing donuts....damn im a moron...

[russian]

Doing Donuts Rocks!!!

too bad cops will **** with you if they catch you.

but honestly after my 240sx, i dont want to go back to FWD although FWD is much safer in rain :) and btw RWD get drivetrain loss, which FWD is opposite - it gains some.

overall, same ****. mod both and you come to the same thing

[sykikchimp]

FWD just has LESS drivetrain loss.. they don't gain power from their drivetrain...

[russian]

sorry my bad.

[KiDyNomiTe]

On paper, handling wise, RWD would be better, if you think of it as you pushing a cart, it is easier to turn a cart if you push it than if you pull it.


AWD has the most drivtraine loss IIRC, and the worst top end, FR has best top end

[nrcooled]

To me RWD is more forgiving. Go into a corner too hot feather the throttle and the rear end will come around. You can just do more w/ RWD. Nothing against FWD but when you start to put HP in one all you do is kill the tires.

All I can say is Civics, and integras are fast as **** at the track with only minor upgrades

Charles,
You are just as fast if not faster....I have seen you drive!

When I went to the track my stock suspension 240 was a blast. I don't think you could say that for stock suspension on a civic.

All in all either one can be fast it's just a matter of prefference. If you watch SCCA GT touring class the Proteges tear it up against RWD counterparts.

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by nrcooled


Charles,
You are just as fast if not faster....I have seen you drive!

When I went to the track my stock suspension 240 was a blast. I don't think you could say that for stock suspension on a civic..

I didn't say they were faster ;) I can honestly say I have never pointed by a civic. (yet.. I feel the intermediate group will be a bit different)

I have gotten my ass handed to me by more than one stock suspended Type-R.. but.. it's a type-R.. :o

stock for stock though, a 240 is faster, and even with a power deficit I was only slightly slower than My roommates RSX-S.. He's a badass driver too. His instructor moved him from Novice to Intermediate in one weekend :eek:

Me and him mowing through traffic was fun as hell, until he got stuck behind a 280z, and I was GONE... :) this of course is with my current suspension setup.


Those East coast honda challenge guys were running some of the fastest lap times run by street cars at VIR. I think they're fastest lap was like a 1:48, where I was running like 2:00 - 2:02..
I bet if my car was gutted, and running 210whp I could run those time too. :p

[AKADriver]

Originally posted by KiDyNomiTe
AWD has the most drivtraine loss IIRC, and the worst top end, FR has best top end

Actually, on paper FF has the best top end; it has slightly less mechanic drag than FR, and it's the most stable at speed.

Stability aside, MR or RR is just as good, though (and might be better for engine placement/aerodynamics).

[Tuck&Poke]

fwd stresses the front tires more. w/ a rwd car your front tires handle changing direction and your rears handle the thrust department. W/ a fwd car the fronts are handling both, and you stress the front tires more. the tires may have the same friction coefficeint, but it has to be destributed for both thrust and lateral grip. i dont know how many of you have driven fwd cars fast, but if you notice when your exiting a corner and you floor the throttle, you get massive doses of understeer, in order for your front tires to be able to handle the foward motion, a little lateral grip is lost (think friction circle). rwd varies depending on setup, but you can have the car rotate (oversteer) when you press the throttle, and you just modulate your throttle input and steering so you dont end up backwards. you have more control w/ a rwd car in my opinion. rwd is tricker to drive than fwd vehicles when your going fast. thats my .02 cents

[Infamous]

)) with out reading any of the thread... ((

i would love to see a 6500HP funny car do a 1/4 in 3.3 seconds with FWD....

[Tuck&Poke]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
FWD just has LESS drivetrain loss.. they don't gain power from their drivetrain...
i dont see why there would be a diff.. rwd has to travel through the long drive shaft yadda yadda, but w/ a fwd car the power has to pass through a few 90deg bends and stuff like that. i would think they would be pretty much equal in power loss.

[Infamous]

also, FWD is complicated as hell, imo. if 240s were FWD (hahahaha) and i started heavily modding it, and broke a "driveshaft" or a cv joint thing, id be lost:confused:...but then again, if i was heavily modding it, id know a thing or 2 about the drivline :doh:

also, where is the transmission on FWD

[misnomer]

FWD transaxles are not significantly more complex. RWD vehicles basically put this into two boxes instead of one (tranny and dif/axle). "Bends" in rotational power aren't as detrimental as you have in fluid dynamics (like your exhaust). But, it is true you have a more complex system going to the front wheels to allow for steering on the drive wheels. I'm tired and probably talking out of my ass on the first part, but this next bit is irrefutable.

RWD cars do have an advantage in traction during accelleration. WHen the car accelerates, it's weight is shifted to the back of the car, putting more downward force on the rear wheels and giving them more traction. You can see this on any car, note how it crouches when you accellerate (back goes down, front up a bit). Granted, it is only beneficial when traction is an issue during accelleration and doesn't effect stock cars at our power levels very much.

<edit> Bah, we aren't biased (omg omg wtf rwd is teh awesome!!!)

[DSC]

IMO, on a road course, equally matched cars FWD is faster in all but the most skilled hands.

Some have said its just personal preference "do you want to oversteer into the turn or coming out of it"...a very basic but meaningful comparison.

Personally, I think fwd is way easier to drive...brake way late, trailbrake your ass off to the apex then mash the gas.

DSC-who has given a civic the point by...

That said...I prefer RWD. It has a much more natural, posative 'feel' to it, and you can distribute the work over all 4 tires, rather than mostly just 2 tires...not to mention better ability to cool front brakes :p

worst thing about fwd? torque steer ownz j00 :( and understeering out of a turn sucks.

Edit: Heh, about the article linked in the 1st post
"All BMWs are RWD as it's part of their philosophy."
Doesn't BMW own the Mini now? And they're FWD (unfortionately) so technically BWM finally made a wrong wheel drive car :p
If i'm wrong please correct me....

[s13rookie]

im just suprised no one mentioned WEIGHT TRANSFER

when flooring a car from a stop, the front rises and the rear squats, fwd, weight over the drive wheels lose weight need for traction. rwd gets extra weight added for traction

this is just from a complete stop but im sure it carries over to track racing

[bonzelite]

FWD suffers from massive understeer and torque-steer. RWD will not have this. even VLSD on FWD will render some torque-steer. also, FWD 'unloads' the front tires at hard acceleration whereas RWD "loads" the wheels for better traction (to a point, of course, until oversteer sets in).

RWD is considered ideal for handling, as it allows for greater front-to-rear balance of weight and steering can be far more responsive. RWD is the handling person's ideal setup. serious racers or autocrossers will disparage FWD. (although i have a 90 SE Maxima 5spd. and it is pretty cool despite some annoying understeer and those f*****g stupid automatic belts).

[s13rookie]

some one above mentioned AWD:

well, awd is quicker
but fwd or rwd is faster