B5 Audi S4: How terrible are they?

[JVD]

Well... I need a new car.

One for all year round. Fun in summer and good in winter. These car's seem to fit the bill nicely, but I hear they are sometimes problematic.

I want a reliable car. I don't mind regular maintenance, but I don't want major issues every month.

Anyone have any experience with them? There's a nice manual one here for sale. Kinda tempted to go look at it...

[ronmcdon]

Our family owned an Audi A6 2.7T (same engine as the B5 S4, but with the Tiptronic tranny).
It was fairly reliable for the 5-6 years we owned it, but kept it bone stock.
Overall I like the B5 S4 a lot.
Always wanted B5 S4 station wagon in laser-red or imola yellow myself.

I'd suggest doing further research on Welcome to AudiWorld.com - The Audi Enthusiast Website (http://www.audiworld.com)
It's an Audi enthusiast site that should be more familiar with the B5 S4.
I'm skeptical that there would be a lot of Audi S4 owners on this site.

[VNG704]

I don't have experience with the car but when I was looking for one and joined an Audi forum. I asked about reliability and they laughed at me and told me to go find a honda. That pretty much turned me away, to hear it from an Audi owner. They (audi forum members) do say the v8 Audis are more reliable than the turbo ones.

[IStop4NoMan]

my brother has a S4. very rare cars but that thing is always in the shop. i swear something breaks on it on a weekly basis. They are not exactly cheap to fix and if it has turbos, god help you if one of those go out. its a $6K job to replace them. $3k in labor fees

[ronmcdon]

^^^
VNG704

You also have to figure a lot of the Audi owners are complete snobs.
Uncalled for to tell you to go buy a Honda instead.
(not that there's anything wrong with hondas. I've owned my share).

Granted Zilvia would have probably done the same thing.
Best to do research by searching threads, and not posting a noob question like that.
Everyone gets annoyed when you don't bother searching.

[ronmcdon]

my brother has a S4. very rare cars but that thing is always in the shop. i swear something breaks on it on a weekly basis. They are not exactly cheap to fix and if it has turbos, god help you if one of those go out. its a $6K job to replace them. $3k in labor fees

B5 S4's (what the OP's interested in) were all bi-turbo 2.7l v6's.
B6 S4's, iirc, were N/A 4.2l v8's.

[sbc]

My brother has that exact car and having worked on it myself I can say its not so so bad.

Its a lot harder than a 240 but thats not saying much. As far as reliability goes he hasn't had a problem but he made sure that the timing belt was replaced as part of the deal when he bought it. He's only got about 100+k on the engine so maybe time will tell.

His car needs about one more day of work till we finish the stage 3 modifications and honestly pulling the engine and tranny was not all that bad. You will need a whole new tool set pretty much though.

I may be a little biased cus a bunch of my buddies work at Westside Auto but I dont think S4s are bad cars at all.

[JVD]

Oh, and I should mention, that I DO MOST OF THE WORK ON MY CARS MYSELF.

I rarely bring a car in for something unless it's something I can't troubleshoot.

I dunno... I just really like the look of the car, plus it's decently quick, and I need a car that's winter driveable(REAL WINTER. not snow < 5 times a year).

... and this isn't really a car I want to modify. Prob just keep it how it is with nice summer wheels.

[VROOOM]

A friend had one when they first came out. the turbos went out on it really early, but he upgraded them. the car was amazingly quick after the turbo upgrade.

[JVD]

A friend had one when they first came out. the turbos went out on it really early, but he upgraded them. the car was amazingly quick after the turbo upgrade.
Ya, I don't mind changing shit like turbos. Stuff wears out. I'll just buy better ones.

I just don't want to have to do any internal work or anything like that.

[lucky7]

the dealer will charge you a boat load to change out the turbos. dealer says you must remove engine to get to them. its roughly $8k. :D

get a subaru. :D

[grudge]

i have a B7 with the 4yr 50k warranty. i've taken my car back to the dealership for numerous PITA repairs on average every 4-6months. thank goodness its been under warranty work. otherwise it would cost alot. sometimes i wish i bought something else. "sometimes..."
but if reliabilty was my main concern, i would buy a toyota camry. they look decent and are reliable. just my opinion.

[smink]

Unfortunately for me Iam an Audi/VW technician. And honestly the 2.7 is one of the better engines, but still quite problematic none the less. And unless you have small hands, alot of patience, and dont lose your temper fast, Id suggest not doing the work yourself. The parts are expensive and they break alot. Not to mention that everything is over engineered. And the newer models arent looking any better. Some people have goodluck with them but most do not. Honestly Id never own one, unless it was given to me then Id sell it.

[S13Silvia917]

being an audi owner myself (b6 a4)i can tell the OP that they are nice and classy daily drivers although they are a royal PITA when it comes to repairs...its just expensive granted i do most of my maintance...parts cost an arm and labor cost a leg.

i have heard stories about replacing the turbos on the b5 s4 being about $6k...but those cars can make a lot of power once you go stage 3, even just a chip upgrade and full exhasut can make a big difference...nowadays you can find these cars for less than $10k check out audizine.com great forum with tons of information and knowledgable guys

[JVD]

So... about the turbos. $6k to replace?

Isn't it just unbolt/bolt on new ones? I'm sure I could do it myself... but taking out the engine?! FUCK THAT!

[Homer_Simpson]

I help my buddy fix/maintain his 99 A5 and I swear I would never own one as long as I live. Its not impossible, it is just illogical and over engineered. Stupid little knick knacks would break periodically. I'll pass.

[silviaguy240]

go for a B6, those 4.2's sound sooooo fucking nice with a catback.

[dynamicck]

Never keep an Audi past the warranty.

[JVD]

Judges have spoken!

Have to start looking at Subarus...

[Homer_Simpson]

Never keep an Audi past the warranty.
That's what my buddy with the A5 said. The idiot kept it and he's getting owned right now.

[ESmorz]

Judges have spoken!

Have to start looking at Subarus...

Haha I was just about to say "Just Get A Damn Subaru".

[S13Silvia917]

Never keep an Audi past the warranty.
i will agree with that to an extent...i bought mine as a certified pre-owned so i had warranty up to 100k...that shit was nice you pay $50 no matter what was wrong even if it was 100 different issues, when i was getting closer to that amount of miles i was hesitant to keep it and now that im at 131k it proves that they are as reliable as any other car...

it all depends on how well they were cared for just like any other car!! although i should add that i follow the stupid manual religiously when it comes to maintance and i do oil changes every 5k miles versus the 10k that it calls for, but yes if you have money to blow and no desire/knowledge to wrench on your own cars then by all means trade it in after 50k miles

[RiversideS13]

i think if you are looking for reliable, you should not look at those German cars. I agreed they are over engineered and always like to make things very complex....cost more time to replace and more money for part.

one a4 owner told me that he had few times that his doors just locked up and he could not open from side the car so he had crawl out from the window. i thought it was pretty funny for someone has to do for a "luxury car"

[JVD]

There's a silver low KM 2002 WRX Wagon for pretty cheap locally.

I kinda like those. Wagon is kinda different.

Are those reliable cars?

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I own one. It was great for a few years but a VERY (emphasis on very) slight front end bump pretty much ruined the car. After the fender bender a clip fell off of the front bumper and eventually cracked the bumper. Found out that the twin I beams were off so I had to adjust the frame, costing me about $500. Bought a new s4 front bumper, $300. Pretty soon afterward, matter of weeks, my air conditioner control unit went out followed by the power to my sunroof. I was PISSED!!!! After not fixing any of it, now my taillights are blowing out in a matter of about a week or so. It's a never ending clusterfuck of costs. If perfect the car is fun and cool but once things start going out might as well get rid of it! Selling it now and getting myself a 06 5 series for my daily.

so, coming from an Audi owner since 02, DON'T BUY ONE!

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

There's a silver low KM 2002 WRX Wagon for pretty cheap locally.

I kinda like those. Wagon is kinda different.

Are those reliable cars?
WRX's are good cars. Find that the ej20's are much more reliable than the 25's but I think that's because people try to push as much HP out of the 25's that they can. That, and ej20's has been out for a long while.

[silviaguy240]

the ej20 trans's will grenade pretty easily if you beat the shit out of it. but if you just drive it normal it will be 100% fine.

[JVD]

the ej20 trans's will grenade pretty easily if you beat the shit out of it. but if you just drive it normal it will be 100% fine.
I don't beat the shit out of my cars.

I do like to go for little spirited drives every once in a while though.

The wagon I'm looking at seems pretty appealing. Rimtuck.com has some pics of wagons with decent fitment too.

COOOOOL

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

the ej20 trans's will grenade pretty easily if you beat the shit out of it. but if you just drive it normal it will be 100% fine.

iirc, that's mostly the early model 2002 wrx's that have big tranny issues. other than 4 wheel lauch and big power, it shouldn't be an issue. subaru's do have that thing where they leak from EVERYWHERE once they get high in mileage, though, so steer away from those. wrx wagon would be rad, though.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/3094265747_915968d205_o.jpg

:bigok:

[meteorite_flo]

iirc, that's mostly the early model 2002 wrx's that have big tranny issues. other than 4 wheel lauch and big power, it shouldn't be an issue. subaru's do have that thing where they leak from EVERYWHERE once they get high in mileage, though, so steer away from those. wrx wagon would be rad, though.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/3094265747_915968d205_o.jpg

:bigok:

I see sedan fenders!

[IStop4NoMan]

B5 S4's (what the OP's interested in) were all bi-turbo 2.7l v6's.
B6 S4's, iirc, were N/A 4.2l v8's.

Then B5 it is. He had his timing belt replaced not too long ago. i felt sorry for the mechanics as the whole front half of the car was gone for that job. I think it ended up being over 1K with labor and new water pump.

Im sure if you can work on cars yourself, it wouldnt be too much of a pain. but he always takes it to a local shop anytime things go wrong.

[lucky7]

that wrx is SICK! omfg.

[kim_jong_il]

I had a C5 S6 in Dubai. Basically the 4.2L S-car based on the A6 platform, similar drivetrain.

Pain in the ass fucking car. Don't get me wrong, its a nice car, a lot of fun to drive, especially the torque murdering V8 I had in mine. But when something goes wrong, sucks big time because deutschland parts are expensive.

A lot of it is in the front end. All the front control arms will likely need to be replaced because their rubber bushings go to shit and are hard to source on their own. A set of Febi replacements is around 600 bucks for the S4. Front axles tend to go, so you'll be buying CV joints. I had to do the timing belt on mine, major job, S4 doesn't have much better clearance in the engine bay.

The LED display in the dash on all cars from this gen has dead lines. It is from the heat expansion contraction in the board pulling the solder joints. You can find places online to do the repair, but that means pulling apart your cluster and sending it away for a week or two. Windshield washers and headlight washers tend to die due to the pumps being a cheap plastic body and cracking.

Ever see a Z32 TT engine bay and think its cramped? These are worse.

They are fun cars, and when you take care of them they run great, but its just when shit it breaks you get pissed because you know that part, even aftermarket or used, is going to be costly. Even for DIY they take time to work on because of specialized tools and just overengineering (Nissans and yellow cars in general are more simply laid out).

[kim_jong_il]

I just read your response to the engine pull to change the turbos. Don't get an S4 if you haven't seen the engine bay, they aren't joking.

You have to remove the front end of the car and basically pull the engine to get to the turbos. Everything is a big pain in the ass on Audi (VWs). Get an S6 before you get an S4, the V8 is more reliable and relatively easier to work on (you won't need to pull the headers for anything). Though in the US they only have wagon S6's, in Dubai I had the sedan version (way better).

[Bubbles]

Audi (VWs)


I think this is all that needs to be said.

[JVD]

Hahahhaa.

I'm not buying one.

Looking into Subaru now. I like wagons, but I wish they had the lines like sedans. Looks way beefier.

I'm gonna look for a nice low KM sedan.

[ronmcdon]

Yeah, I like the sedans better as well.
Much more beefy and obnoxious looking.
Don't forget to throw on an oversized wing, fart-can exhaust, rally flaps, & gold wheels.
(im not being sarcastic, I really like that look)

[bluewrx30]

I see sedan fenders!


what is the name of these rims

[bluewrx30]

I see sedan fenders!


what is the name of the rims on the blue wrx if any one knows it will be great as i wanna put these on my evo

[articdragon192]

Rota P45Rs, replicas of TE37s

[Trevor87]

Rota P45Rs, replicas of TE37s
wrong those are grids...p45r are lmgt4 knockoffs

[GSXRJJordan]

I've always liked the B5 S4's, and have seen some truly incredible cars built on that platform... and the narrow-angle V6's sound so good!

Problem is, everyone I know that's owned one as a street car (3 or 4 people at least) have said they were more trouble than their worth - not so much mechanical stuff (although the turbos do seem to go out sooner than most other cars, ~50k mi), but the electronics! Granted, the owners I'm talking about are 'typical Audi' owners, who take it to the dealer at the first sign of trouble, but there's not a whole lot else you can do when the instrument cluster tells you "SERVICE NOW"/etc and the car won't start.

That being said, I'm looking at W215 Benz's for my next DD lol. Talk about electrical problems...

[DreamN]

Bookmark this site if you seriously plan on getting one.

AudiDIY.com Audi B5 S4 DIY Articles (http://www.audidiy.com/b5s4.html)

Great cars with a lot of potential. I've considered one as a daily for quite some time now. Like most German cars they have their ups and downs, mostly electrical, but many feel the car is worth the upkeep.

[ZX88]

engines are pretty good. stupid electrical shit and weak transmission are the problem with these cars.

[JVD]

Ya, I ended up with a WRX Wagon.

I really wanted this one black S4 locally, but the kid refused to get what he said was a minor problem fixed. There was a ticking noise coming from the engine after it ran for a while. Seemed to be tensioner or something, but it's too hard to tell without taking the whole front of the car off basically. He didn't want to spend the extra little bit of money to get it fixed and make a sale so w/e.

Ended up with the 2002 wagon with 70k miles. I like it a lot. Not as fast as the S4, but I can live with it. I didn't want to deal with the constant "maintenance" of a German car.

[ZX88]

Ya, I ended up with a WRX Wagon.

I really wanted this one black S4 locally, but the kid refused to get what he said was a minor problem fixed. There was a ticking noise coming from the engine after it ran for a while. Seemed to be tensioner or something, but it's too hard to tell without taking the whole front of the car off basically. He didn't want to spend the extra little bit of money to get it fixed and make a sale so w/e.

Ended up with the 2002 wagon with 70k miles. I like it a lot. Not as fast as the S4, but I can live with it. I didn't want to deal with the constant "maintenance" of a German car.

good choice i will hopefully picking up a wrx soon too. fuck german cars....

[xsublimefrekx]

my buddy just got the v8 s4 and i love the car to death. I have been wanting to get one as my dd and his car pretty much set it for me.

[ronmcdon]

WRX is the more sensible choice.
it should be just as, if not quicker than a B5.
maybe something to look into, if it doesn't seem to be making good power.

[beb]

To be very honest, I wouldnt recommend you purchase any euro that is used if you want reliablity. Ive been through my share of new and used euros and can tell you that you wont be happy. I had a B5 A4 Quattro with the tiptronic, leased new in 2001 and it spent about 25% of its time with me at the dealership. Thankfully back then, they offered free everything... We've encountered similar probs with BMW, VW and MBZ. A handful of friends own B5 A4's... they DO have problems, not all, but a good chunk of them. They are awesome, amazing, fun cars but Id only say get them if you are down to work on them and have a great connection to parts. =T

[Ceepo]

I have never owned an audi, but my mom had a 2002 vw beetle 2.0 N/A 5 speed, it was a fun car to drive, but the headlight was like a 2 hour job to replace the bulb, also the a/c controls went out and that was about 400 bucks for the part and another 400 for labor(gotta tear the whole dash apart) also there is a shit ton of interior peices that would break, mirror knobs, glove box, door handles, ect... it was a very fun car but i would not own a vw/audi after 1990's to expensive to fix, and not worth it, everyone is giving you the right idea on getting a subaru... oh yeah i also live in the middle of no where, the nearest vw dealership is about 500 miles away so parts were a bitch to track down or pay to ship...

http://www.carthusiast.com/media/2009/07/audi-stab.jpg

[SC_S13]

You could always...get an Evo :hide: i love those cars...

[articdragon192]

wrong those are grids...p45r are lmgt4 knockoffs

You're right. I was totally thinking about that after I posted, but was too lazy to correct it at that moment.

[WanganRunner]

Never keep an Audi past the warranty.


^^
This



I'd like an old Coupe Quattro though, that's totally DIY-friendly, at least relative to the newer cars.

Get a B6 RS4.

[bluewrx30]

what are the rims called on the blue wrx anyone please

[ixfxi]

I don't have experience with the car but when I was looking for one and joined an Audi forum. I asked about reliability and they laughed at me and told me to go find a honda. That pretty much turned me away, to hear it from an Audi owner. They (audi forum members) do say the v8 Audis are more reliable than the turbo ones.

Unfortunately for me Iam an Audi/VW technician. And honestly the 2.7 is one of the better engines, but still quite problematic none the less. And unless you have small hands, alot of patience, and dont lose your temper fast, Id suggest not doing the work yourself. The parts are expensive and they break alot. Not to mention that everything is over engineered. And the newer models arent looking any better. Some people have goodluck with them but most do not. Honestly Id never own one, unless it was given to me then Id sell it.


audis are fuckin up-scale volkswagens. as if vw didnt suck enough cock, they made a pinnacle brand to celebrate the dick suckingness that the car offers.

take for example, honda. the pinnacle brand is acura. you have confidence with honda, you'll have even more confidence with acura. same applies for nissan with infiniti, or toyota with lexus.

when it comes to vw, i think they are german clunkers. if they cant please me with the basics, they sure as hell wont please me with the luxurious brand they're offering which share many of the same fucking parts.

so whats the benefit? a nice surgically-sterile interior and unique styling? tell me how much either of those differences make when your lemon is stranded on the side of the road due to german insta-fail engineering.

if they were quality, they would be known and respected for building quality cars. notice how there is a list of a bunch of other brands that are known for reliability, and vw/audi isnt on that list.

im speaking from experience as i've wrenched on enough of my friends cars unwillingly, and because my friend is a tech at vw/audi. i make fun of him and ask him during the 10 years hes worked there, how many fucking window regulators has he changed?


fuck vw/audi.

[ixfxi]

I just read your response to the engine pull to change the turbos. Don't get an S4 if you haven't seen the engine bay, they aren't joking.

You have to remove the front end of the car and basically pull the engine to get to the turbos. Everything is a big pain in the ass on Audi (VWs).

A lot of it is in the front end. All the front control arms will likely need to be replaced because their rubber bushings go to shit and are hard to source on their own. A set of Febi replacements is around 600 bucks for the S4. Front axles tend to go, so you'll be buying CV joints. I had to do the timing belt on mine, major job, S4 doesn't have much better clearance in the engine bay.

The LED display in the dash on all cars from this gen has dead lines. It is from the heat expansion contraction in the board pulling the solder joints. You can find places online to do the repair, but that means pulling apart your cluster and sending it away for a week or two. Windshield washers and headlight washers tend to die due to the pumps being a cheap plastic body and cracking.

Ever see a Z32 TT engine bay and think its cramped? These are worse.

Granted, the owners I'm talking about are 'typical Audi' owners, who take it to the dealer at the first sign of trouble, but there's not a whole lot else you can do when the instrument cluster tells you "SERVICE NOW"/etc and the car won't start.

these men speak truth, this is the kind of shit i am talking about. its like a fwd Z32 twin turbo. actually, its like a fucking mitsubishi 3000GT VR4.. all that bullshit engineering crammed into a car, ALL THE WRONG WAY.

when you open the hood to a GTR, you see the nicely laid out straight 6, exhaust on one side, intake on the other... everything looks natural. when you look at a VR4 3000GT, its a fucking rats-nest of wiring and a motor that was accidentally placed sideways due to underpaid engineers. you can immediately tell that all the qualified engineers got jobs at real car companies.

the way i see it, i specifically make it a point not to offer products and work on cars that suck. i'de rather work on a NISSAN cube

[driftsilvias13]

Yea VWs suck ass. I have a lot of friends that are die hard VW fans but all own either japanese cars or mini's now. Theyve had so many damn problems with the car but were still loyal after fixing them. They all wont ever be buying VW or AUDIs ever again.

[ronmcdon]

audis are fuckin up-scale volkswagens. as if vw didnt suck enough cock, they made a pinnacle brand to celebrate the dick suckingness that the car offers.

so whats the benefit? a nice surgically-sterile interior and unique styling? tell me how much either of those differences make when your lemon is stranded on the side of the road due to german insta-fail engineering.



Speaking from experience, one of the benefits of owning an Audi over a VW is that you get an actual warranty.
Audi mechanics will actually work on your car & 'usually' fix the issues.
Owning an Audi under warranty isn't so bad.
Owning a VW under warranty & not under warranty is equally frustrating.

[ixfxi]

Funny, one of my friends had a older GTI and then moved on up to a Corrado G60 (supercharged).

The GTI wasnt too bad of a car, it didnt have any power options and was very basic.. shit, this was an MKII model... nicely tuned too. Here is a pic:

http://www.clearcorners.com/temp/gti1.jpg
http://www.clearcorners.com/temp/gti2.jpg

Car was actually featured in a few magazines back in the day (though my friend didnt build it). He ended up selling it, and I saw it a couple times around the LA area. Havent seen it in maybe 5-6 years, I wonder whatever happened to that bad boy..

Anyway, the Corrado was a fun car.. again, when it worked. It had headlights that dont light, wipers that didnt wipe, and a supercharge that stopped being super. I think the VR4 had better reliability being a 6, but thats still not very comforting.

[Chad4061]

i have a buddy that just sold his 2000 s4 tiptronic and it ran well but if something breaks its gonna be expensive. I had a 01 1.8t jetta and it ran good but was problematic sometimes. I say if you take good care of it you shouldnt run into alot of problems! good luck with your search

[silverdemon16]

earlier this year I was planning on buying a b5, but the guy sold it. But at stage 3 they're pretty damn fast!!!

[ronmcdon]

What the hell is this "STAGE 3" non-sense?
STAGE 3 'piece of shit' status?

At least be specific enough to state the aftermarket company.

[Omarius Maximus]

What the hell is this "STAGE 3" non-sense?
STAGE 3 'piece of shit' status?

At least be specific enough to state the aftermarket company.

Stage 3 in audi S4 land is universally known as K04s...which were oem turbos on RS4s. Most companies just resell oem ko4s..there are only a handful of people who make "other" types of big turbo kits.

A couple of fab shops will build you a twin GT28 setup for insane amounts of money, and there is also tialsport's R605 and R770. But cars that run these setups are RARE.

My fav is the 12v VR6 in an S4...actually faster than the 2.7tt sadly:

http://motormavens.com/emAlbum/albums/MotorMavens/Carspotting/USP%20Audi%20S4/IMG_7328_USP_Audi_S4_copy.jpg

which was faster than the previous setup (twin gt28s):

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/galper1/jeff%20s4/DSC_0717-1.jpg

[ixfxi]

that looks real easy to work on