It's official GM Files for Chapter 11

[exitspeed]

We all knew it was coming and as of like Fri insiders were saying today would be the day.

Sucks it had to go this route but it seemed inevitable.

So what's next?

The Government majority owned GM will be a different company then it was before this date.

It's still unclear if the Government will have an impact on what type of products the General puts out but you can bet it will have some say. I'm all for them helping bring the Volt to the market successfully. Really what GM was trying to do with the Volt was monumental. The Cruze is going to be just as important.

But what about us enthusiasts that still likes some of GM's products. I for one do.

The G8 is done at the end of the 2010 model year. Maybe it'll return as a Chevy? Chevy as a brand won't have a problem meeting the new CAFE regs even with cars like the Vette, Camaro, and a Chevy version of the G8.

What about the Kappa platform that underpins the Sky and Solstice? The Solstice will be dead also at the end of 2010, and GM will likely be done with Saturn about the same time. A few years ago there were rumors of a Chevy version that would use cues from the Vette making it a "mini-vette" of sorts. That wouldn't be a bad move honestly.

My biggest fear with all this is that their portfolio turns to Vanilla City. Yes, Gm has made crappy cars for the last 30 years and really really crappy cars int he 90's and early 2000's. But if you have your eyes open GM makes some damn fine, dependable vehicles right now. And not only are they making a great midsize sedan, and CUV's but they have some exciting products for us. I jsut hope the Government doesn't make them get rid of all the products that actually have soul.

[ronmcdon]

I don't think ch11 is so bad.
If anything it's the only way that'll allow them to reorganize quick.
As far as government ownership goes, there's no saying if it's permanent.

Only time will tell how gm fares.

I doubt they'll be going under anytime soon.
I'm optimistic about the company's future & products.

To me, this is great news as the company is taking more aggressive decisions.
GM prior was just lagging too much with their restructuring.
Also, I think the majority owners of g m will be the unions,
Although the govt will also control somewhere between 15-30 percent of the stocks
Think the only company that'll go under is Chrysler.
There's really not much to justify it's existence.

[s13silvia123]

chapter 11 is a way you can get rid of half your bills and dont have to pay it back. but i think there's a new law where you cant do that no more. chime in on this i sort dont remember much no more.

[VROOOM]

should have done this in the beginning then we wouldnt be out tens of billions of dollars. we all knew this was going to happen

[98s14inaz]

should have done this in the beginning then we wouldnt be out tens of billions of dollars. we all knew this was going to happen

^Exactly

Not that I have ever bought a GM product before but after they took a bailout from the govt to "restructure" and prevent bankruptcy and then they do it anyway I'd never buy one of their products. The bailout only benefited the guys at the top and the rest of America is stuck with the bill as usual. Fuck change.

I feel the same about Chrysler after taking a bailout and then selling part of themselves to Fiat. WTF? This was supposed to save American jobs. Again, fuck this change. Fuck the republicans and double fuck the democrats. /rant

[ronmcdon]

Agreed, I think the sooner this would have happened the better.
Maybe at the time, g m's stock was still worth something.
Ultimately, it's still delaying the inevitable at taxpayer's expense.

[exitspeed]

^Exactly

Not that I have ever bought a GM product before but after they took a bailout from the govt to "restructure" and prevent bankruptcy and then they do it anyway I'd never buy one of their products. The bailout only benefited the guys at the top and the rest of America is stuck with the bill as usual. Fuck change.

I feel the same about Chrysler after taking a bailout and then selling part of themselves to Fiat. WTF? This was supposed to save American jobs. Again, fuck this change. Fuck the republicans and double fuck the democrats. /rant

This is what bums me out the most about it. I know a lot of people will feel the way you do. And I think it's unfortunate. Because there's one thing GM has that Chrysler doesn't...cars people actually want to buy.

A funny thing I keep hearing in the media is the question, how will this help GM sell more cars?

The answer is, IT'S NOT. And honestly it's not even GM's fault. NOBODY is selling cars right now. Not how they should at least. GM could sell the Camry, and Corolla and still not sell cars right now. Toyota can't hardly sell the Camry right now.

Anyone who thinks that this should magically turn GM around is an idiot. Cars just aren't going to sell until this recession lets up. That's a fact. It has nothing to do with a companies portfolio right now.

The question is what kinda cars are they going to have when people do start buying again? Sure they are going to have the Volt, Cruze, and tons of other fuel efficient vehicles, but will they have the type of cars that are going to attract a buyer like myself?

[VROOOM]

true, my dad bought a new Mazda3 a week ago and we were the only people at the dealership the whole morning. he got a pretty good deal too.

[98s14inaz]

This is what bums me out the most about it. I know a lot of people will feel the way you do. And I think it's unfortunate. Because there's one thing GM has that Chrysler doesn't...cars people actually want to buy.

A funny thing I keep hearing in the media is the question, how will this help GM sell more cars?

The answer is, IT'S NOT. And honestly it's not even GM's fault. NOBODY is selling cars right now. Not how they should at least. GM could sell the Camry, and Corolla and still not sell cars right now. Toyota can't hardly sell the Camry right now.

Anyone who thinks that this should magically turn GM around is an idiot. Cars just aren't going to sell until this recession lets up. That's a fact. It has nothing to do with a companies portfolio right now.

The question is what kinda cars are they going to have when people do start buying again? Sure they are going to have the Volt, Cruze, and tons of other fuel efficient vehicles, but will they have the type of cars that are going to attract a buyer like myself?

I'd buy a ford. The company did the right thing, didn't take a bailout, restructured, and globalized some of their product lines.

[exitspeed]

I'd buy a ford. The company did the right thing, didn't take a bailout, restructured, and globalized some of their product lines.

I would too. I commend Ford on doing the right thing. But they weren't in as bad of shape as GM and Chrysler were to begin with.

I really like that new Fusion.

[TNathe]

GM = Government Motors, owned 72% by governments. WTF is wrong with this picture? soon if you are on welfare you too can get a free car.

[VROOOM]

I would too. I commend Ford on doing the right thing. But they weren't in as bad of shape as GM and Chrysler were to begin with.

I really like that new Fusion.

They also sold most of thier Mazda stock to bring some extra cash. maybe GM didnt have any brands that were easy to unload.

[ronmcdon]

Problem isn't gm's products.
It's their management and it's inability to make changes fast.
That is the difference between ford & gM today.

If anything ford's products are unremarkable & conservative.
There's not a single product ford makes that g m doesn't do better.

I don't see Ford surviving in the long run if they don't improve their products.
Chevy just needs lower running costs, and more effective
Mgmt.
They're already on their way towards that IMO.
I'm more optimistic about g m than fordi

[murda-c]

Friend just got an 09 fusion and got a good deal on it.

ford dealership was actually really busy when we were in there.

[exitspeed]

They also sold most of thier Mazda stock to bring some extra cash. maybe GM didnt have any brands that were easy to unload.

True they did. And yes GM didn't have anything they were willing to sell right then and there except Hummer...and Hummer sles have been down 75% over the last year and a half. Kinda hard to get rid of a brand for anything reasonable when it's clearly not selling and there is no hope in site.

Since the first Gov aid they have been trying to offload Hummer, Saab, Saturn, and Opel, but things just haven't loved fast enough. Whether that is because of management or the offers were just not good enough is anyone's guess. My guess would be the former. Obviously Pontiac was the easiest brand to rid themselves of because it's the only brand they have that is sold solely in the US. Every other brand they have is sold elsewhere in the world and it makes it that much harder to just nix a brand versus selling it.

[drift freaq]

GM = Government Motors, owned 72% by governments. WTF is wrong with this picture? soon if you are on welfare you too can get a free car.

Ok this is just shear ignorance on the whole thing. Please if you are going to comment speak up with knowledge because your statement above is pure falsehood.

Yes the Government owns a piece of GM i.e. you and I the taxpayers own it. 72% no. Does the Government want to get involved running GM? No. The people to watch are congress because most of congress is corrupt and and basically they would be the ones that would want to get into GM. Will the public let them? Will the President? No.

Problem isn't gm's products.
It's their management and it's inability to make changes fast.
That is the difference between ford & gM today.

If anything ford's products are unremarkable & conservative.
There's not a single product ford makes that g m doesn't do better.

I don't see Ford surviving in the long run if they don't improve their products.
Chevy just needs lower running costs, and more effective
Mgmt.
They're already on their way towards that IMO.
I'm more optimistic about g m than fordi

Ah I can speak first hand here since I have reviewed some of GM's recent products. The only car that GM builds at this point that is even great or remarkably interesting is the Corvette.
With minor props for the Cobalt (still shitty build quality) and Pontiac Solstice( though I don't like its design) Oh and Pontiac is no longer.

GTO was made by Holden aka GM Australia and GM has no plans to to start manufacturing Holdens here.

Everything else is crap, in my opinion. Better than it was 5 years ago? Yes. Good enough to compete? Barely.


Oh and GM still has Fritz Henderson running the show and he was Waggoners right hand man. Waggoner was the fuck that lead GM to this debacle. Until Fritz Henderson is gone its not good.

Ford? Dude you are so clueless about Ford. Fact is Ford builds fantastic cars in Europe that they are bringing to their U.S. production lines. They have revamped their U.S. production lines to build these cars. The cars they build in Europe are top sellers and known for their quality and being quite nice to drive.

Fact is Ford already builds cars of a higher quality level than GM. Thats the whole reason they were not in such dire straits and needing assistance like GM and Chrysler.
You may not like Fords you may not like the new Fords but they are already on a road to more success and their World cars are just that World cars that will sell.

To many people on this forum see the car world through Rose colored glasses i.e. If its not sports oriented its to conservative. LOL Man most of the world buys cars to get from point A to point B and back. Sports cars are a small niche of the overall picture.

[theronin]

its comforting to know that Gm is as fucked financially as i am. kinda gives me the feeling that im not alone.

[BustedS13]

the full line of pickups, the Volt, ONE suv (BAAARF), and the 'Vette. this should be GM's ENTIRE lineup.

[drift freaq]

the full line of pickups, the Volt, ONE suv (BAAARF), and the 'Vette. this should be GM's ENTIRE lineup.

While not bad they need more in the economy car area. Oh and the Volt? The Volt is one big fail. Who is going to pay 40k for an ordinary all Electric passenger car? That is crazy. If it was 20-25k like a Prius? Sure. 40k forgot it. That is just shear idiocy.

[jamg]

While not bad they need more in the economy car area. Oh and the Volt? The Volt is one big fail. Who is going to pay 40k for an ordinary all Electric passenger car? That is crazy. If it was 20-25k like a Prius? Sure. 40k forgot it. That is just shear idiocy.

I would pay 40k...


































(no not really) lulz

[BustedS13]

seriously, 40k? i didn't realize it was going to be so much. alright, so add in a gas compact and a fullsize, and scratch the SUV. if somebody wants that, they can get a super crew with a short bed.

[exitspeed]

It's gonna be $40k BEFORE rebates though. All said and done it's gonna be closer to $36. Shit you can almost buy a Camry for that much.

[drift freaq]

It's gonna be $40k BEFORE rebates though. All said and done it's gonna be closer to $36. Shit you can almost buy a Camry for that much.

Exactly the point. Who is going to pay even 36k for a ordinary otherwise run of the mill car that is Electric vs a really Nice hybrid, or low level luxury car for a little more?
Oh and you can buy nice Hybrids right now for $25k ,that are extremely well built as well.
You can buy ordinary Gas sippers for sub 17k as well. The Volt is just another example of GM and the way the management has mis-stepped for years. Its got Rick Waggoner stamped all over it.

[BustedS13]

the toyota camry is $36,000? seriously? what a joke.

[ryguy]

Does the Government want to get involved running GM? No.


Ah I can speak first hand here since I have reviewed some of GM's recent products. The only car that GM builds at this point that is even great or remarkably interesting is the Corvette.
With minor props for the Cobalt (still shitty build quality) and Pontiac Solstice( though I don't like its design) Oh and Pontiac is no longer.


Everything else is crap, in my opinion. Better than it was 5 years ago? Yes. Good enough to compete? Barely.


Fact is Ford already builds cars of a higher quality level than GM. Thats the whole reason they were not in such dire straits and needing assistance like GM and Chrysler.
You may not like Fords you may not like the new Fords but they are already on a road to more success and their World cars are just that World cars that will sell.


First off, Barack Obama fired Rick Wagoner, so don't tell me the government has no interest in running GM.

I dont know what kind of reviews you have done on GM cars. I worked for both a Dodge-Chrysler-Jeep and a Chevrolet dealership before the market tanked, and I have driven loads of Chrysler and GM products, as well as very low mileage Toyota trade-ins that were being taken to auction. Hundreds of miles of driving at a time. Chrysler products were low qulaity, but the interior design of the Malibu is better than that of the Camry, and the drive quality of the Malibu was way better too. The Camry felt like a 2000s Buick, soft and squishy with big radio buttons so that old people can change the station. Seems like the tables have turned, with the foreign cars having the vast plastic dashboards and plain styling. The only thing holding back GM is how the public views it. The cars are no longer the weak link.

Barely good enough to compete? Hardly. I used to drive a late 90s cavalier, I saw how low GM had fallen, and I know from experience that GM quality is right there with the imports.

[BustedS13]

-800 cool points for defending any chevy malibu under 40 years old
-1200 cool points for a statement containing "i drove a late 90's cavalier" and not containing "at gunpoint"

[exitspeed]

First off, Barack Obama fired Rick Wagoner, so don't tell me the government has no interest in running GM.

I dont know what kind of reviews you have done on GM cars. I worked for both a Dodge-Chrysler-Jeep and a Chevrolet dealership before the market tanked, and I have driven loads of Chrysler and GM products, as well as very low mileage Toyota trade-ins that were being taken to auction. Hundreds of miles of driving at a time. Chrysler products were low qulaity, but the interior design of the Malibu is better than that of the Camry, and the drive quality of the Malibu was way better too. The Camry felt like a 2000s Buick, soft and squishy with big radio buttons so that old people can change the station. Seems like the tables have turned, with the foreign cars having the vast plastic dashboards and plain styling. The only thing holding back GM is how the public views it. The cars are no longer the weak link.

Barely good enough to compete? Hardly. I used to drive a late 90s cavalier, I saw how low GM had fallen, and I know from experience that GM quality is right there with the imports.

I agree agree agree.

[SimpleS14]

The gov't will have a strong influence on GM and it's really hard to imagine them letting go of their stake in the company once they are in the green.

As for the product line-up, I can see them leaning towards the appliance/bland area...very similar to Toyota.

It's very likely that the G8 can comeback as a Chevy, since there is a plan by Holden to bring the car stateside for law enforcement use (heck the gov't would love those :keke:) and then probably civilian use. As for the Kappa platform, the rumor was to have a Chevy version called the "Stingray" but I don't see that even happening. Then again the Solstice coupe is new and with a freshed up front end, it can be a Chevy product IMO.

It sucks that bankruptcy had to happen, but we all knew GM was in horrid condition from well before the economy went bad. For some reason I'm wondering what would have happened if GM didn't receive a bail-out until the new administration. Heck, I wonder what would happen if they didn't receive a bail-out at all.

I kinda wish the gov't would pay off all my debt and in return I work for them until I've worked my worth. :keke:



Do you guys think I can trade-in my car (2006 Infiniti) for a GM vehicle? (ideally G8 GXP)

[drift freaq]

First off, Barack Obama fired Rick Wagoner, so don't tell me the government has no interest in running GM.

I dont know what kind of reviews you have done on GM cars. I worked for both a Dodge-Chrysler-Jeep and a Chevrolet dealership before the market tanked, and I have driven loads of Chrysler and GM products, as well as very low mileage Toyota trade-ins that were being taken to auction. Hundreds of miles of driving at a time. Chrysler products were low qulaity, but the interior design of the Malibu is better than that of the Camry, and the drive quality of the Malibu was way better too. The Camry felt like a 2000s Buick, soft and squishy with big radio buttons so that old people can change the station. Seems like the tables have turned, with the foreign cars having the vast plastic dashboards and plain styling. The only thing holding back GM is how the public views it. The cars are no longer the weak link.

Barely good enough to compete? Hardly. I used to drive a late 90s cavalier, I saw how low GM had fallen, and I know from experience that GM quality is right there with the imports.

Ya and firing Rick Waggoner was absolutely brilliant, kudos to Obama for doing that. It was the smartest thing that could have been done!
Next to the idea firing the board of directors(which needs to be done) Next to cracking a whip over the UAW, because they and Detroit management singlehandedly destroyed the American Automobile industry. I suggest you do more research.

Fact is I did not say GM sucked completely.

Fact is my reviews did not say GM sucked completely. Fit to finish vs a Toyota?
I am sorry but you need to put the crack pipe down.

The Toyota is just put together better. Body panels fit better, interior does not look as shody. Interior panels fit better.
GM's dashboards not being plastic? lol your are dealership mark. You work for GM I don't trust a word you say.

Not only that but I have seen. Maybe the Malibu has a nice dash. Ever looked at a Cobalt? LOL ever compared it to a Corolla or Prius? LOL I have. While I give the Cobalt credit It was not their yet and fit and finish did not compare.

On top of that given my experience with both makes I will say this and say it again. GM has come a long way they have gotten better. They are not their yet. Both Ford and the Japanese are still doing it better.

Sorry but that's the sad truth.

Now you need to step back from staunch defense of GM long enough, to read that I did not say they sucked completely. I did say in comparison they are still not there yet.

Oh and like I said before the shear idiocy on betting the farm on the Volt at 40k which is what Waggoner wanted to do? Well its economic suicide and its why they are where they are at today.

Get over it your a GM hack. Go buy your Malibu and have a nice falling apart day.

[lflkajfj12123]

long hair don't care?

whats going to happen to the people who own GM cars now?

[SimpleS14]

whats going to happen to the people who own GM cars now?

Their warranties are still backed, but resale value takes a hit unless they are trading in for another GM vehicle.

[VROOOM]

Their warranties are still backed, but resale value takes a hit unless they are trading in for another GM vehicle.

most GM vehicles have horrible resale value anyway.

[ronmcdon]

Ah I can speak first hand here since I have reviewed some of GM's recent products. The only car that GM builds at this point that is even great or remarkably interesting is the Corvette.
With minor props for the Cobalt (still shitty build quality) and Pontiac Solstice( though I don't like its design) Oh and Pontiac is no longer.

GTO was made by Holden aka GM Australia and GM has no plans to to start manufacturing Holdens here.

Everything else is crap, in my opinion. Better than it was 5 years ago? Yes. Good enough to compete? Barely.


Oh and GM still has Fritz Henderson running the show and he was Waggoners right hand man. Waggoner was the fuck that lead GM to this debacle. Until Fritz Henderson is gone its not good.

Ford? Dude you are so clueless about Ford. Fact is Ford builds fantastic cars in Europe that they are bringing to their U.S. production lines. They have revamped their U.S. production lines to build these cars. The cars they build in Europe are top sellers and known for their quality and being quite nice to drive.

Fact is Ford already builds cars of a higher quality level than GM. Thats the whole reason they were not in such dire straits and needing assistance like GM and Chrysler.
You may not like Fords you may not like the new Fords but they are already on a road to more success and their World cars are just that World cars that will sell.

To many people on this forum see the car world through Rose colored glasses i.e. If its not sports oriented its to conservative. LOL Man most of the world buys cars to get from point A to point B and back. Sports cars are a small niche of the overall picture.

Why do you think Ford builds cars of a higher quality than GM?
What do you mean by quality, and what models are you referring to?

I'm not saying Ford is all bad.
I do think it's a very inconsistent company today in the US market. (to be fair, so is GM to a certain extent).
They do build some good economy & midsize cars, and arguably do better than GM in this regard.
I doubt they have much to compete with luxury models.
Lincoln/Buick can barely compete with Cadillac in terms of quality of materials and performance.
Well..Buick is a bit of a freak success in China, but thats another thing.
With performance cars, GM is hard to top with the Corvette.
Even the base Camaro is comparable to the much pricier Mustang GT.
Yeah, GM brought over a Holden, but it' still a GM.
Ford could have likewise brought over one their own Aussie musclecars.
The Ford Falcon would have been an awesome G8 fighter and replacement for the ho-hum Taurus/500.
The Volvo S60 and the newer midsize SUV were all kinda depressing to drive.
I've had no experience with the Jags & Rovers, so I can't comment on that.

Back to the good with Ford,
Based on what I've driven, the Mk.6 Fiesta (rented it in italy a couple yrs back), Mk.1 Focus, Mazda 3, & previous Mazda 6 were all a pleasure to drive.
all had a very well sorted out suspension, fun to drive, decent quality of materials/paint, good ergonomics, etc.
All in all, a good package for an economy car.

What's offered in Ford domestic markets here, is fairly uninteresting.
models such as the Fusion, Taurus seem to catered towards the elderly with their floaty suspensions.
Quality of the interior materials, really isn't any better than GM at casual glance.
The current US Focus is still using the mk.1 platform, while most of the world already are using the Mk.2.

Ford constantly claims that they're trying to integrate Euro models into the US market, sure.
However, Mk.1 Focus aside, the results have shown otherwise.

With GM, their Euro division isn't too bad via Opel/Vauxhaul.
To their credit, they've at least brought over the Astra as a decent entry level econobox.
It does well commercially in Europe competing against the Focus, and it's had favorable reviews.

Suffice to say, both companies have great products.
It's the choice not to bring over good products (or at least to lag terribly in doing so), that disappoints the most.

GM's biggest problem in the US market is that they lack a decent midsize family sedan & they haven't been pushing for something fuel efficient, comparative to their Japanese (if not also VW) competitors.
imo, GM's lineup between the Astra, G8, Camaro (base & ss), Caddy CTS, and the Vette account for a solid & varied.
Sucks that GM doesn't have a good midsize, but what they're offering in the US is more or less the best the company has to offer from it's world-wide selection.

Ford is selling their Focus and Modeo via Mazda/Volvo.
The Mustang isn't bad at all.
It's not bad either, but it isn't as nearly bold as GM.
It's certainly much more conservative.
Perhaps the biggest disappointment was that Ford sold off their Mazda stock.
Some of Ford's best cars came about with collaboration with Mazda, including the Focus & current Fiesta.

Are we seeing this with some degree of bias?
I don't doubt that given the forum,
but that doesn't mean we cannot appreciate a good car for what its worth.

[wow-thats-a-cool-car]

You guys ever think about how bad it would be if the government owned GM? Even if they owned a small portion, the government would favor GM cars for crash test rating and make them super affordable. If the government wanted to they could even put higher taxes on imported cars so that they make more money and people would drive american cars.

[SimpleS14]

You guys ever think about how bad it would be if the government owned GM? Even if they owned a small portion, the government would favor GM cars for crash test rating and make them super affordable. If the government wanted to they could even put higher taxes on imported cars so that they make more money and people would drive american cars.

It's more like GM would have cheap and unsafe cars with lack ingenuity.


We've seen how that played in USSR (Socialism) and India before 1980's (Protectionism).

[Gnnr]

Ceeeeeeeelebrate good times, c'mon! F'in A! Finally! This pretty much release them of the UAW's chocking hold for now.

REPORT: GM to announce tentative sale of Hummer tomorrow (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/01/report-gm-to-announce-tentative-sale-of-hummer-tomorrow/)

Even more good news!

[ronmcdon]

It's more like GM would have cheap and unsafe cars with lack ingenuity.


We've seen how that played in USSR (Socialism) and India before 1980's (Protectionism).

Well, it's difficult to say.
The US does have it's crash test & safety laws.
Then there's the civil lawsuit, so give some incentive towards accountability.
also figure GM is still selling to international markets, so at the very least you have fufill that your market country's safety laws.

With regards to raising import taxes, I was under the impression that Japan and some Euro countries already did this.
Besides, protectionism is shaky concept given US companies don't always build their cars in the US.
Do you raise taxes on a Chevy that gets built in Canada?
Do you raise taxes on a Toyota that gets built in a factory in the US?

Import taxes might not be such a bad idea if the right incentives and potential back-lashes are taken into consideration.

[TTrx7Pete]

chapter 11 is a way you can get rid of half your bills and dont have to pay it back. but i think there's a new law where you cant do that no more. chime in on this i sort dont remember much no more.
Incorrect.

Chapter 11 Reorganization is a way for Debtors to reorganize their debts and create a new entity. Essentially the "Old" GM will be gone with all debts that the "Old" GM had incurred. Secured Creditors will get first bite at the assets, the unsecured, etc. The "New" GM will still have to repay debts the "Old" GM had through reorganization. Essentially the Debtor and Creditors along with the Bankruptcy Court have a reorganziation plan in which the creditors get as much as they would have gotten under Chapter 7 liquidation. The "New" GM will make payments on the plan. The "Old" GM and the debts that it leaves behind due to various UCC Article 9 reasons well be wiped clean.

General rule of thumb, creditors must get at least as much as they would have gotten had the debtor filed Chapter 7 liquidation in the Chapter 11 reorganization plan.

Bankruptcy law is very complicated, but that is the gist of it.

[wow-thats-a-cool-car]

It's more like GM would have cheap and unsafe cars with lack ingenuity.


We've seen how that played in USSR (Socialism) and India before 1980's (Protectionism).

we have all seen the epsoide of top gear where they drive the old russian cars. They are all terrible.

Maybe the government will just have gm throw cars together from the parts bin. We also might see the same models for a long time. The government will probably make GM a super boring car company but in the long run save them

[98s14inaz]

...

Fact is I did not say GM sucked completely.

...

GM is actually like a chick who gives bad head lol

[SimpleS14]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.....


BREAKING: New GM drives out of bankruptcy this morning [*UPDATED] (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/10/breaking-new-gm-reportedly-drives-out-of-bankruptcy-this-mornin/)

Pretty much the "New GM" is called 'General Motors Company' which consist of the strong assets (GM, Buick, Chevy, Caddy) while the old GM will be stuck in bankruptcy until all creditors are happy.

I'm indifferent with this whole plan, I just hope the gov't gets their money back and relinquishes their majority stake.

[Gnnr]

"A fresh lineup of Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC cars, trucks and crossovers, each with leading-edge designs and technologies that matter to both consumers and the environment"

Fuck. Stop with the trucks and crossovers already. Crossovers=SUV in this case, since SUVs got such a bad stigma that they have to disguise it.

IMO they're still 2 companies too big. Yes I know Buick and GMC sell a lot blah blah blah...

[exitspeed]

It's kinda hard to get rid of the #1 selling brand in the world's largest car market. Yes as of now China is the worlds largest car market. It wasn't supposed to happen this soon but with our recession it kinds sped up the process. Again, you can't rid yourself of a brand that sells so well in a market like that. THAT would be bad businees.

[Gnnr]

1.Stop selling Buick here only in China.
2.Make GMC an exclusive to fleets and businesses and stop advertising to regular consumers.
3.Profit.

Thats my plan.

[exitspeed]

1.Stop selling Buick here only in China.
2.Make GMC an exclusive to fleets and businesses and stop advertising to regular consumers.
3.Profit.

Thats my plan.

I agree with the second one.

But I'd like to add:

Sell Saab (which it has)
Sell Hummer (which is may have if the Chinese Govt would STFU)
Sell Saturn

[imotion s14]

I'm indifferent with this whole plan, I just hope the gov't gets their money back and relinquishes their majority stake.

their money? Don't you mean our money?

[ronmcdon]

I agree with the second one.

But I'd like to add:

Sell Saab (which it has)
Sell Hummer (which is may have if the Chinese Govt would STFU)
Sell Saturn

Saturn was being sold to Penske iirc.
Opel & Vauxhaul were also set to be sold off, if not entirely written off.
Guess that means GM is moving completely away from the Euro market.

Actually, I didn't mind the current Saturn line-up.
Platforms were the same as Chevy, but the designs were similar to Opel's.
For once, GM's 'bread & butter' cars were actually easy (or easier) on the eyes.

What I think GM needs most of all, is a strong compact to compete against the imports.
The Delta (cobalt, hhr, etc) just isn't cutting it with it's dismal safety ratings, relatively mediocre fuel economy (32 hwy, iirc), & boring cookie-cutter design elements.

[kingkilburn]

I think they should have kept all the euro divisions. They bring something completely different to the table and I think they can help fill the compact car segment of GM.

I think they should bring in Holden to replace Pontiac. Real American muscle by way of Aussy Land.

[exitspeed]

I think they should have kept all the euro divisions. They bring something completely different to the table and I think they can help fill the compact car segment of GM.

I think they should bring in Holden to replace Pontiac. Real American muscle by way of Aussy Land.

Yeah Saturns products were great because they were basically Opel's but the bottom line is they didn't sell here.

One of the reasons the GTO didn't sell well is because the traditionalists were upset that their beloved American Muscle "GTO" was an import.

And while I obviously love the G8 it isn't selling well either. So the case to bring Holden here wouldn't be a very wise one. As much as us enthusiasts would all love it.

[SimpleS14]

their money? Don't you mean our money?

How is it ours if we were forced gave it to the gov't ? (aka IRS)

I would love to not pay taxes...I would be BOOC :keke:

[ronmcdon]

Gm's existing Delta platform (cobalt, HHR, etc) will be replaced by the Delta 2.
Well..actually it already has in some of the international markets.
Think the Delta 2 is also shared by the Volt (not too optimistic about that one, considering the price).

The Chevrolet 'Cruze' is replacing the embarassing Cobalt
Kinda looks like a Sentra clone imo.
Same suspension design and all.
International markets get a fuel efficient 1.4l turbo-diesel.

Are ppl going cross shop this with the Prius/Civic/Corrolla, etc?
Doubtful.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/03/Chevy_Cruze.jpg
http://images.paultan.org/images2/SS_Chevy_Cruze_3.jpg
http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/spy_shots_chevrolet_cruze_interior_spotted_main.jp g

[Phlip]

their money? Don't you mean our money?

Ask for your share of it back, WITH interest and get back to me on that.