S14 SR20DET really worth it??

[nurspecsil]

Hey guys is an S14 SR20DET really worth all the extra money compared to an S13?? Yes I understand there are power differences (s13 205bph and s14 220bph) but does the S14 have something special or is it just because it is newer??

Thanks
Chad

[sykikchimp]

It's newer, less miles, has a larger turbo than stock, and requires less work to put into an s14.

[nurspecsil]

how much more work??

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
It's newer, less miles, has a larger turbo than stock, and requires less work to put into an s14.

Not exactly. It's opinion.

My blacktop s13 was newer than most s14 sr's I've seen. Had less miles. And was just as easy to put in vs. an s14 motor.

I could have bought an s14 turbo and my clip for less than an s14 motor. And if would have been as strong if not stronger than the s14.

Either way, asking a question like that is almost as bad as asking whether to turbo ka or go sr.

When it comes down to it, it's all a matter of opinion.

[Dousan_PG]

foxcolt, that's weird. i've found s14 clips cheap. anyways, maybe its just me.

i personally say go s14 engine. variable timing, s14bb turbo, easier to put in an S14 and i think those above (90% of the people w/ SRs will never break 350rwhp) is good.

s14 belongs in S14 too, that's my thoughts.

as foxcolt said, its personal preference.

then again, i'll be putting a s14 engine in my s13....

[nurspecsil]

I agree with you guys cmopletely I was just wondering if there was any advantage to having one over the other. But you guys answered my question thanks.

Got one more though where is a good place to get an S14 SR20DET?? It seems so much easier to find S13's.

Thanks again
Chad

[Foxcolt]

ah I just remembered what I would always reccomend when people asked me this question.

Think of your long term goals.

If you plan to make a lot of power, get and s13. Cheaper parts, etc etc.

If you plan on installing an sr running stock turbo, mild bolt ons etc. and never touching the motor again. Then do s14.

[Dousan_PG]

alot of power? More then 350 or 400? no? then go s14 OR s13

like i said, how many 350+ RWHP srs are there out there?

we all have dreams, but how many are realisticly in reach?

[nurspecsil]

I promised my self that i would stop building the engine after i could run consistent low low 13's and high 12's in the 1/4 mile. So I figure that will take forsure close to 350hp

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by nurspecsil
I promised my self that i would stop building the engine after i could run consistent low low 13's and high 12's in the 1/4 mile. So I figure that will take forsure close to 350hp

Welp the s13 t25 isn't gonna do that.

I'm not even sure the t28 will. (based on my personal experience!)


Look at it this way. If you buy an s14 motor and swap out the turbo you lose the only factual advantage the s14 motor has over an s13.

Not trying to sway you, just givin you some food for thought.
It's a big step, and I've seen time and time again people making the wrong decisions and kicking themselves in the ass later on.

[nurspecsil]

I appreciate all your imput it is very worthwile. ok then what are the differences in installation into an S14.

[Foxcolt]

Wiring is the only difference.

The dash harness connectors are different from the s13 Main harness and the s14 dash harness. It's outlined here,
http://sr20.hybrids.jp/forum/tech/s13sr_into_s14.htm (http://)
Albeit a little confusing.

Mechanically it's the exact same as installing an s14 motor.

[Sixbanger]

Doesn't the S14 sr have a shorter and straighter intake manifold too? Seems like a nice advantage to me...

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by Sixbanger
Doesn't the S14 sr have a shorter and straighter intake manifold too? Seems like a nice advantage to me...

It's that whole low port, high port thing.

S14's have a low port head resulting in shorter (not straighter) intake runners. Supposidly it helps torque.

S13's have a high port head meaning longer runners. Supposidly it helps out the top end.

People say to make big power use an s13 because it's got a highport head. All of it is hearsay anyways nothing's been proven so don't use that as a basis for choosing your motor.

Either way all I know is that changing injectors on an s14 sr is one HUGE PAIN!! Cause of the funny intake manifold:D

[sykikchimp]

I will be getting a black top 180sx motor with as few miles I can find.. then strapping on a HKS GT2530 before it even goes in the car. No silly T28 for me. :-P

[PSI240SX]

Originally posted by Foxcolt
Welp the s13 t25 isn't gonna do that.

I'm not even sure the t28 will. (based on my personal experience!)


Look at it this way. If you buy an s14 motor and swap out the turbo you lose the only factual advantage the s14 motor has over an s13.

Not trying to sway you, just givin you some food for thought.
It's a big step, and I've seen time and time again people making the wrong decisions and kicking themselves in the ass later on.

Actually my friend, Ken from ENJUKU racing in orlando florida ran a [email protected] 109 I believe in his S13 redtop powered Hatchback with a stock T25. The T28 will get you considerable faster than that.
I drove an S14 the other night with an S14 sr running 6psi with stock sidemount IC, and stock KA exhaust and it felt faster than my S13 powered hatch with DP, N1 exhaust, and Greddy FMIC at 10psi.
S14 SR is bada$$

[Dousan_PG]

the people i know, who either own business (240sx) or do swaps all tell me:

s14 SR in your S13 is FAST

noticably fast.
i have only heard good things about it in a s13.

[DuffMan]

Originally posted by nurspecsil
[B]I promised my self that i would stop building the engine after i could run consistent low low 13's and high 12's in the 1/4 mile. So I figure that will take forsure close to 350hp [/B
]

You can run those numbers on less than 300rwhp and on a stock T28.

[s14vaxlr8]

you can easily run mid 13s with a redtop in an s13, mild bolt ons
fmic, boost control, lsd, good set of rear tires

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by PSI240SX
Actually my friend, Ken from ENJUKU racing in orlando florida ran a [email protected] 109 I believe in his S13 redtop powered Hatchback with a stock T25. The T28 will get you considerable faster than that.
I drove an S14 the other night with an S14 sr running 6psi with stock sidemount IC, and stock KA exhaust and it felt faster than my S13 powered hatch with DP, N1 exhaust, and Greddy FMIC at 10psi.
S14 SR is bada$$

True, I remember when he posted it.

But before people start thinking that it's normal for a redtop to run those times please be advised that Enjuku did Extensive modifications to that car. I forget what they did but I know they worked the heck out of the suspension. Soft springs rear, aluminum driveshaft etc etc...

Not your average sr'd 240.

[nurspecsil]

Thanks for all the advice I have decided to do an S14 SR20DET in my S14. I figure the newer the engine the longer I will have it for and less repairs will have to do. Thanks for all your opinions and input, it was of great help.

Chad

[drift freaq]

quote foxcolt
(Look at it this way. If you buy an s14 motor and swap out the turbo you lose the only factual advantage the s14 motor has over an s13.)

Ok this is just a blatantly wrong and uneducated remark.
Fact, Nissan built the S14SR to have more bottom end than the S13SR .
Why? because S13SR's are pretty unventual engines till you hit around 3.5 and they start to pull.
The Intake ports and the the manifold on the S13SR were designed to be mid and high end flow engines, much like a CA, though the CA has even superior flow charastic intake ports(read: even more high end) .
Factual advantage , which I have seen in action, S14SR's have a lot more bottom end torque and because of the VVT still manage to retain there mid and top end power.
I know two, very well known in the business 240sx owners, sporting S14SR's right now, both haul ass.
In fact one of them dynoed out at 212 RWHP on stock boost of 7lbs.
A S14 SR is just a much better engine for street or combo Street with some track use than a S13SR modded to compete.
In the words of my buddy Ken Flores who is Service manager at Motorex and longtime socal240.org member and I qoute" with 250 RWHP on my S13 type X Blacktop I had no bottom end it was all 3500-4k and up.
With my S14SR at the same HP I still have bottom end torque"
Do not get me wrong S13SR's are cool but if you go anywhere beyond stock and even stock there is not much in the bottom end department.
The reason most tuners in Japan use S13 Blacktops is because they are setting them up for track use to start . Which means High HP figures and concentration on mid range and top end power. All track engines are like that.
In fact most all race car engines are like that. Why? because race cars are run at constant mid to high revs( unless its a big block V8 hehehehe).
Simpe equations to follow here
1: How much do you want to spend i.e. you want cheap go S13 Redtop
2: Do you want a mid to high rev engine like a Two stroke? = S13SR
3: Do you like to retain low end for street drivability? go -S14SR
ask yourself those 3 questions, your answers will tell you how to go .
provided with the info above you can make your decision wisely
Me I am going S14SR for the above reasons.
I do not think I will be the least bit disappointed.

[DuffMan]

Part of that bottom end is from a turbo that spools up quicker due to a ball bearing turbo.

[drift freaq]

quote duffman....
(Part of that bottom end is from a turbo that spools up quicker due to a ball bearing turbo.)

Ya but you know duff, Ken Flores was running a T28 Turbo on his type X SR. I stand by my above statements.

[boro240]

this is the first constructive S13 SR vs S14 SR discusison i have ever seen, haha.

[sykikchimp]

When does the s13 motor reach full boost? the S14?

If you building a turbo motor for track, you want it to spool as quickly as possible, and not run out of steam up top... as long as your turbo stays spooled, there is no sudden increase in power mid corner that makes you spin out. If the car doesn't get moving till 3500 or 4000 rpm, when is the turbo spooling? sounds liek that could be fixed with an appropriate Cam, and turbo selection.

From what I've read a turbo like the HKS GT2530 will spool about 500 rpm Sooner than the stock t25. Would that not make up for any loss of low end grunt?

I need to go for rides in more SR powered cars.. :(

[Foxcolt]

Ok this is just a blatantly wrong and uneducated remark.

Lol... It's not wrong, and It's a very educated remark :D


Fact, Nissan built the S14SR to have more bottom end than the S13SR .

That's a pretty bold statement. Show me some proof that "NISSAN" Said that.

Why? because S13SR's are pretty unventual engines till you hit around 3.5 and they start to pull.

Weird my s13 motor pulls hard at 2500 at doesn't let up till around 6. Most s13 motors are like that.

The Intake ports and the the manifold on the S13SR were designed to be mid and high end flow engines

No, the intake ports were made to flow well. End of story. Personally I'll take a higher flowing head over the opposite anyday.

Factual advantage , which I have seen in action, S14SR's have a lot more bottom end torque and because of the VVT still manage to retain there mid and top end power. [

That's just plain wrong.
VTC (I'm pretty sure VVT is toyota) provides low end torque by advancing the intake cam. Then retards it as it sees fit during High revs

Just to prove it here's a quote from a very knowledgable person on FA

VTC stands for Valve Timing Control.
All that VTC does (on the S14 SR20DET) is that it advances the intake cam timing by 20 degrees (so that there is 21 degrees of overlap between the two cams). This system only operates when the engine is warm and under 5700RPM.

What this means in plain english is that it is a system that Nissan designed to increase midrange torque and give the motor more power where a daily driver needs it. Since the system doesn't engage past 5700RPM's, peak power is not affected by this. This is why some tuners prefer to not use VTC on high-power cars, because it's one less electronic gadget you have to deal with and it has no effect on peak power output.



I know two, very well known in the business 240sx owners, sporting S14SR's right now, both haul ass.

As well they should


In fact one of them dynoed out at 212 RWHP on stock boost of 7lbs.

Wow, pretty good number. Now are you saying all s14's are like this? Because I highly doubt they are.


A S14 SR is just a much better engine for street or combo Street with some track use than a S13SR modded to compete.

Wrong, both of these engines modded the same will produce similer horsepower levels with a similar curve.


In the words of my buddy Ken Flores who is Service manager at Motorex and longtime socal240.org member and I qoute" with 250 RWHP on my S13 type X Blacktop I had no bottom end it was all 3500-4k and up.
With my S14SR at the same HP I still have bottom end torque


I agree that stock s14's have more torque. But that is largley if not all because of the turbo
I guarantee you if I put a t28 on my s13 motor I would get the same torque numbers you would. if not better (notice I keep repeating this)


Do not get me wrong S13SR's are cool but if you go anywhere beyond stock and even stock there is not much in the bottom end department.

So are you saying that if you put a t66 on an s13 and one on an s14. The s14 will retain it's bottom end? Exaggerated of course but I think you get my point.


Conclusion:
It seems that your assumtions are based on what you hear and not actually real world fact.
I do think the s14 is a better all round motor, but not for the price.
As I've said time and time again, because of the cost of s14 motors these days you could buy a 98 s13 blacktop and t28 and you would have the same power output or better than an s14.

There are two things that set apart an s13 from an s14 SR.
That's VTC and a bigger turbo. Does that justify a grand extra? I don't think so. VTC is there to make up for the lack of flow due to the smaller intake ports on the head. So in my opinion it shouldn't have been there to begin with.

Aish, WTF..it's friday What the heck am I still doing at home!!:eek: :eek:

[gregsr20]

change the cams on a s14 and you basically lose the VTC, then all your left with is the bigger turbo, i know a guy that did the same thing, drove my car and ended up really upset, but thats just my opinion

[HaLo]

Originally posted by dousan36
the people i know, who either own business (240sx) or do swaps all tell me:

s14 SR in your S13 is FAST

noticably fast.
i have only heard good things about it in a s13.

I've heard the same, except the s14 engine was in a s14... Incredible is what the people say when they come out of the car... And these people run 350whp SR-powered 240sx.

[okashira]

I've heard the same, except the s14 engine was in a s14... Incredible is what the people say when they come out of the car... And these people run 350whp SR-powered 240sx.


s13 sr spools noticibly quicker then s15sr(bbt28)
I do notice a bit more smoothness/torque from the s15sr at low rpm off-boost. but :gives: its not a 7L 11:1 v8 that can actually get some decent acceleration from it.

BTW, the couple of times ive removed my exhaust to run open DP (still running stock exhaust) all that extra torque completly dissapeared anyways.

Id rather have an s13sr in my car.

[okashira]

When does the s13 motor reach full boost? the S14?

If you building a turbo motor for track, you want it to spool as quickly as possible, and not run out of steam up top... as long as your turbo stays spooled, there is no sudden increase in power mid corner that makes you spin out. If the car doesn't get moving till 3500 or 4000 rpm, when is the turbo spooling? sounds liek that could be fixed with an appropriate Cam, and turbo selection.

From what I've read a turbo like the HKS GT2530 will spool about 500 rpm Sooner than the stock t25. Would that not make up for any loss of low end grunt?

I need to go for rides in more SR powered cars.. :(

there is no way in hell the 2530 will spool sooner then the t25.