Custom Fab Titanium Exhaust

[misfitsfreak81]

Hello all zilvians. Im gaugeing interest in a project that Im planning in the very near future. My plan is to fab up a titanium exhaust for s14's with SR motors. We all know that Ti exhausts for the like of Greddy or Tanabe are very very expensive. My goal is to create a compareable product at significantly less expense. These will all be custom made and Tig welded by hand.

Currently Im in the process of sourcing the Ti Tubing. I should have an approximate price within the next couple days. Once I have the first exhaust completed I will post pics. Please feel free to PM or post here if you are interested.

Thanks for looking.

Mike
Owner,
North Shore Performance Auto

[S13SILVIA|E46M3]

Affordable Ti exhaust would be AWESOME! What about some S13 Love?

[gojira]

Affordable Ti exhaust would be AWESOME! What about some S13 Love?
+1! don't forget about s13 owners! :)

[GSXRJJordan]

The problem with any Ti exhaust is that it's impossible to bend correctly. You have to make pie-cuts for everything... time consuming, and not good for flow if you take short cuts. Looks rad when done right :)

Another problem is that you'll have to laser-cut the flanges, gets costly real quick when it takes 4x 4x 1/4"+ just to make one flange.

I'm interested to see what you come up with for pricing and design.

[misfitsfreak81]

+1! don't forget about s13 owners! :)

I will try to get s13 figured out as well, its just that I have my s14 to do mock ups on so its easier. Im not sure how close the routing of the exhaust is between the different models. If someone local wanted to drop off their car I could work something out. thanks

Mike

[Otherworldview]

Where in 'northern suck' are you located? lol

[misfitsfreak81]

Where in 'northern suck' are you located? lol

Im in northern Michigan. Like I said, Northern Suck! oh well though.

Mike

[Otherworldview]

Yeahhh... Was going to offer an s13 for mock, but that's a little too far.

Sorry

[Def]

The problem with any Ti exhaust is that it's impossible to bend correctly. You have to make pie-cuts for everything... time consuming, and not good for flow if you take short cuts. Looks rad when done right :)

Another problem is that you'll have to laser-cut the flanges, gets costly real quick when it takes 4x 4x 1/4"+ just to make one flange.

I'm interested to see what you come up with for pricing and design.

Titanium bends nicely, it just requires much more force than aluminum for the same wall thickness/diameter.


I'd possibly be interested in an S13 piece depending on pricing.

[Epic720]

interested pending prices for s13 and s14.

[xs240]

+1 on s13 and what GSXRJJordan (http://zilvia.net/f/members/gsxrjjordan.html) said... If you can do it... alrighttttt!

[GSXRJJordan]

Titanium bends nicely, it just requires much more force than aluminum for the same wall thickness/diameter.


I'd possibly be interested in an S13 piece depending on pricing.

I've never seen a titanium exhaust be bent - not in motorcycle racing, or ultra-high-dollar automobile racing. They're all pie cut.

The only titanium I've seen bent is like super small diameter tubing lol.

[95KA-Turbo]

You should make a Titanium trust DD exhaust for the S14. I would definitely buy one of those!

[usdm180sx]

Make it FLUSH for good ground clearance!

[KoukiMonsta]

dooooooooooo itttttttttttt

[xplicit240]

You should make a Titanium trust DD exhaust for the S14. I would definitely buy one of those!

Make it FLUSH for good ground clearance!

S13 love with ^^^^^^

[95Gstman]

S13 love with ^^^^^^

Everything these people said. Flush trust style in titanium. What more could you ask for in an exhaust? Oh, yeah and s13 love.

[chuy]

As another S-14 owner, I'm after one that is tucked under the car as much as possible and one that is like the DD. I'm running a KA-T with SR down pipe and test pipe, hopeing that your design will bolt right on?

[S-Nation S13]

s13 im looking into swapping out my greddy ti is this application going to have a silencer?? lol i ask cause i live in oceanside ca land of wack a** tickets

[Paul2x]

I've never seen a titanium exhaust be bent - not in motorcycle racing, or ultra-high-dollar automobile racing. They're all pie cut.

The only titanium I've seen bent is like super small diameter tubing lol.

JIC,Trust, and Fujitsubo all use mandrel bending for their Ti exhuast today.

More of smaller priviate shops still do the pie-cuts. And since no-one really makes large bore Ti piping most just start with a big flat sheet, roll it to their desired dia' and start from their.

Here's a few i've had,

Mandrel:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a109/Paul2x/0601071821.jpg

Pie-cut
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a109/Paul2x/TiNasty10-3-06015.jpg

Back to the topic, I'd be very interested to see what you come up with, having tried several Ti-setup's out their It would be great to get something local. I personally would love to get a Quiet Ti exhuast. Somthing with a oval can, just different from the run of the mill like i had before.

Keep us posted.

[S13SILVIA|E46M3]

You are actually able to bend Ti quite well, just no tight bends. Here's an example of my late M3s exhaust...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/JohnathanS13E46/Johnathans%20E46%20M3/CIMG2781.jpg
Goes into a couple of nice bends, then the rest are pie cuts...

And please make sure to get those mounts right....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/JohnathanS13E46/Johnathans%20E46%20M3/P1010415.jpg
Pic of Ti Mid-pipe on M3. Ti is strong but brittle. Mounts were a little off and Ti just CRACKED under the stress and heat. Sucked:down:

[GSXRJJordan]

^^^ Wow, sick guys! I guess I've just never seen it, because all the stuff I've seen has been one-off. Cool ~ makes sense that Paul would have multiple examples... ballllllinnnnnnnn lol.

This thread is full of win already.

[Brian]

how thin will the pipe be?

From what I have seen, the titanium exhausts are SUPER thin and are not very durable.

With these low cars that scrape everyday, it wont last long.

[ManoNegra]

what price point are you shooting for?
from experience Ti is very expensive
and probably will fall off the reach of most 240 owners wallet

and while we're daydreaming, why not inconel?

[xs240]

What are some benefits of inconel?

[misfitsfreak81]

wow!! Never thought i would have this much interest all ready. Zilvia.net Rocks! I will try to address all replies in order. here it goes.

95KA-Turbo, yes it will be similar to the Trust DD style.

usdm180sx, it will be as flush and tucked up as possible while keeping the straightest flow path possible.

chuy, yes it will bolt right on to a stock location downpipe.

S-NationS13, planning on using a bolt-on ApexI or similar Ti Muffler section. you should be able to source a silencer for it pretty easily.

Paul2x, i dont have a mandrel bender yet, so the first ones would be pie-cut. if enough people are interested to warrent me getting a bender, than i for sure will do it. i have never seen an oval titanium muffler canister, but that doesnt mean they arent out there. you could always bolt a stainless one up to the end of the ti pipe.

S13SilviaE46M3, yeah ti can be brittle. the mounts will be different than the ones in your picture.

Brian, piping will be pretty thin, not exactly sure on the size just yet though. im waiting to hear back from my suppliers. it will be fabbed to all but garantee no scraping. thats always the final consumers choice though on how low they want to run their cars.

ManoNegra, not sure on prices yet. hopefully not out of the price range though of everyone on this site. shooting for an affordable, quality, titanium exhaust.
No Inconel. there really is no benefit to it being used in this application.

To all the S13 guys and gals out there, have patience. I have a friend local to me who im sure will let me use his S13 hatch to fab something up.

Once again everyone, thank you for all the interest. I will have prices up within the week hopefully.


Mike
North Shore Performance Auto

[Style]

make sure when you make the exhaust, you make the canister adjustable, some of us run kits and we dont want the exhaust being sunk, i like to have my exh sticking out like 3in past my back bumper.

[misfitsfreak81]

make sure when you make the exhaust, you make the canister adjustable, some of us run kits and we dont want the exhaust being sunk, i like to have my exh sticking out like 3in past my back bumper.

Excellent point. I will certainly do my best to make the adjustable in some way for different body kits. thanks for the thought, im not currently running a kit so that may have been something I overlooked.

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto

[GSXRJJordan]

Excellent point. I will certainly do my best to make the adjustable in some way for different body kits. thanks for the thought, im not currently running a kit so that may have been something I overlooked.

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto

Adjustibility is going to be very difficult. It would be nice, but I can't think of any way to do it without having to mod the exhaust (add flanges and include interchangeable straight pieces behind the tips)... which is inefficient/costly.

[ManoNegra]

What are some benefits of inconel?

same as Ti but better, ie strenght, light, great heat characteristics
what F1 uses nowadays
also $$$$$$
wasn't meant to be taken seriously btw...

[ManoNegra]

wow!! Never thought i would have this much interest all ready. Zilvia.net Rocks! I will try to address all replies in order. here it goes.


interest, as you'll come to find out, is plenty abundant here
just wait till it's time to shell out the cash... :sadwavey:

[misfitsfreak81]

same as Ti but better, ie strenght, light, great heat characteristics
what F1 uses nowadays
also $$$$$$
wasn't meant to be taken seriously btw...

well said. it is mad expensive and def overkill for this application. it would be cool though. Inconel exhaust valves!!! FTW

Mike

[jamg]

plz don't make this exhaust (if you do) super duper expensive.

[misfitsfreak81]

plz don't make this exhaust (if you do) super duper expensive.

im gonna try to keep it as resonable as possible.

Mike

[Ofc. Dangle]

Sounds like an awesome idea. I would definetly be interested as I am getting an S14 to throw my SR into soon.

[jspecusa]

interest, as you'll come to find out, is plenty abundant here
just wait till it's time to shell out the cash... :sadwavey:

If you are making this exhaust for fun then you'll get sick of it after a few sold.

If you are making this exhaust to make profit, I suggest you make it for cars that cost over $20,000 used still.

the cost to make a ti exhaust is $450 so to sell it for profit you'll have to mark up to $900 minimum.

there are people that are good at making things, there are people who are good at doing business, hope you can do both.
good luck,

sam

[huffandpuff00]

what about a simple downpipe(s13)? already have a trust Ti-R exhaust

[screaminfast]

what about a simple downpipe(s13)? already have a trust Ti-R exhaust

Most people do not make downpipes in Titanium because of the amount of heat put into the dp.

[xs240]

^Off topic but your avatar seats are f'en sexy... i want. What are they

[misfitsfreak81]

Most people do not make downpipes in Titanium because of the amount of heat put into the dp.

you can still reap benefits from a TI downpipe though.

what about a simple downpipe(s13)? already have a trust Ti-R exhaust

I have certainly considered it. Im still waiting to hear from my metal supplier. keep your fingers crossed.

If you are making this exhaust for fun then you'll get sick of it after a few sold.

If you are making this exhaust to make profit, I suggest you make it for cars that cost over $20,000 used still.

the cost to make a ti exhaust is $450 so to sell it for profit you'll have to mark up to $900 minimum.

there are people that are good at making things, there are people who are good at doing business, hope you can do both.
good luck,

making it for something to do and give people an chance to get a quality Ti exhaust with out having to sell an organ to pay for it. I would certainly be willing to do exhausts for whatever vehicle make/model that people have. Im starting here cause I have an S14 just chillin in my garage right now while I build the motor. so I figured why not make something cool. Im not trying to make a ton of money off of this, if I can make some to help finance other parts of my build cool, if not than I guess we all loose.

sam

Sounds like an awesome idea. I would definetly be interested as I am getting an S14 to throw my SR into soon.

I will keep everyone up to date on this as much as I can.

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto

[Def]

I've never seen a titanium exhaust be bent - not in motorcycle racing, or ultra-high-dollar automobile racing. They're all pie cut.

The only titanium I've seen bent is like super small diameter tubing lol.

I've got a few shelves full of mandrel bent titanium tubes at work, so it's very possible. It wrinkles less than aluminum tubing of the same diameter and wall thickness.

McLaren F1's stock headers and exhaust system are titanium, and they're all mandrel bent. I think the Corvette ZR1's exhaust is titanium as well, and I can guarantee you they aren't pie cutting that thing.

[Def]

what price point are you shooting for?
from experience Ti is very expensive
and probably will fall off the reach of most 240 owners wallet

and while we're daydreaming, why not inconel?

Inconel would be good for a turbo manifold/headers, but not worth it for a cat back exhaust that could actually be made out of aluminum. The high temperature mechanical properties is what makes Inconel such a good material. It's actually heavier than stainless steel, or at least it feels that way to the hand.

[ManoNegra]

Inconel would be good for a turbo manifold/headers, but not worth it for a cat back exhaust that could actually be made out of aluminum. The high temperature mechanical properties is what makes Inconel such a good material. It's actually heavier than stainless steel, or at least it feels that way to the hand.

That's interesting, we have some at work
I'll try to remember to weigh it

[GSXRJJordan]

I've got a few shelves full of mandrel bent titanium tubes at work, so it's very possible. It wrinkles less than aluminum tubing of the same diameter and wall thickness.

McLaren F1's stock headers and exhaust system are titanium, and they're all mandrel bent. I think the Corvette ZR1's exhaust is titanium as well, and I can guarantee you they aren't pie cutting that thing.

Very cool info. Apparently I'm blind, or haven't been looking hard enough.

Aluminum, to me, is the easy choice here for cat-back stuff... doesn't corrode /rust (like mild steel) much, is reasonably cheap (about double the cost of mild steel, less than half the cost of Ti), and almost as light as Ti.

Oh, and the Z06 and ZR1 exhausts are Ti, but they're covered in heat shields. I'll have to get a peek at the bends the next time I'm under my dad's C5 Z06.

[misfitsfreak81]

Very cool info. Apparently I'm blind, or haven't been looking hard enough.

Aluminum, to me, is the easy choice here for cat-back stuff... doesn't corrode /rust (like mild steel) much, is reasonably cheap (about double the cost of mild steel, less than half the cost of Ti), and almost as light as Ti.

Oh, and the Z06 and ZR1 exhausts are Ti, but they're covered in heat shields. I'll have to get a peek at the bends the next time I'm under my dad's C5 Z06.

you would have to use pretty thick aluminum tube to keep it from melting. the heat transfer property of aluminum are way different than any form of steel. it also has a far lower melting point than steel. the heat from the cat alone would most likely destroy an aluminum exhaust, let alone the temp at the rear of the car in the bumper opening would be only a couple degrees different than right at the cat. just to clear things up, aluminum is not actually lighter than titanium. its just that ti is so much stronger it can be used in far thinner thicknesses with superior strength.

thanks

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto

[Def]

you would have to use pretty thick aluminum tube to keep it from melting. the heat transfer property of aluminum are way different than any form of steel. it also has a far lower melting point than steel. the heat from the cat alone would most likely destroy an aluminum exhaust, let alone the temp at the rear of the car in the bumper opening would be only a couple degrees different than right at the cat. just to clear things up, aluminum is not actually lighter than titanium. its just that ti is so much stronger it can be used in far thinner thicknesses with superior strength.

thanks

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto

Aluminum will have a lighter density, and you can use more material to get a stiffer structure. Strength depends on many factors, but generally Ti will be stronger.

That said, aluminum works fine for a catback exhaust. Melting point for aluminum is in the 1050-1100 deg F range, and it loses significant mechanical strength around 700-800 deg F. So while the exhaust temps might be around the melting temp, aluminum will have a much higher rate of thermal conductivity than any other exhaust material so it will shed more heat to the ambient air and more of it will stay cooler. Lower material temps mean better mechanical properties.

The short of it, aluminum has been shown to work just fine for an exhaust at least a few feet away from the exhaust ports on tons of cars.

[misfitsfreak81]

Aluminum will have a lighter density, and you can use more material to get a stiffer structure. Strength depends on many factors, but generally Ti will be stronger.

That said, aluminum works fine for a catback exhaust. Melting point for aluminum is in the 1050-1100 deg F range, and it loses significant mechanical strength around 700-800 deg F. So while the exhaust temps might be around the melting temp, aluminum will have a much higher rate of thermal conductivity than any other exhaust material so it will shed more heat to the ambient air and more of it will stay cooler. Lower material temps mean better mechanical properties.

The short of it, aluminum has been shown to work just fine for an exhaust at least a few feet away from the exhaust ports on tons of cars.

Aluminum has a melting point between 1050 to 1150 degrees Fahrenheit, yet it gets soft and unstable at far lower temps. here is somthing interesting that i found.

ANSI B31.1 (Power Piping Code, 1980 Edition) neither lists allowable stresses for aluminum for temperatures in excess of 400°F nor permits its use at such temperatures. While it's true that exhaust plumbing isn't power piping, it's still a reasonable guideline to follow, and material that's only good to 3000 psi at 400°F will be utterly worthless at 1000°F.

The end near the muffler would corrode do to the combustion gases combined with moisture form Hydrochloric, Sulfuric, Nitric, Carbonic and other acids. That's why the back end of normal carbon steel systems rust out and the real reason stainless steel systems originally started (not the bling factor!)

the bottom line is yes, you can make an exhaust out of aluminum. no, it wont last long. yes, it will be light. yes, you will have to replace it offten.

thanks.

Mike

[C-unit]

Is it possible to make one or maybe a couple for R32 skyline?? I know I can get atleast couple of the skyline guys together if the price is right. I can supply you the dimension too.

[misfitsfreak81]

Is it possible to make one or maybe a couple for R32 skyline?? I know I can get atleast couple of the skyline guys together if the price is right. I can supply you the dimension too.

yeah, the more the merrier. im not trying to descriminate against any car owners out there. i think doing some skyline ones would be awesome. i would need the most exact dimensions that you could get since i dont know anyone local to me with a skyline.

I talked with one of my suppliers today and finally got a quote for some 3" with a .035 thickness. this should be plenty thick for exhaust piping, but im also looking into some .050 thickness as well. the pricing was not as high as i expected it to be but still not cheap. im shooting for pricing to be around the same as retail for a high quality JDM full stainless system. i will be more precise when i complete the first exhaust since i will know how many hours i have into the creation of it.

thanks everybody for the interest. you are really driving me to make this a reality.

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto

[C-unit]

Thanks for the responds..I am thinking..better yet, i'll send you a stock exhaust for mock up if everything works out within budget.

[95KA-Turbo]

I would be willing to take measurements from my Trust DD if you want.


Also, I would recommend looking into 2.5" or 2.25" piping. You will gain massive amounts of ground clearance if you run 2 pipes rather then one single pipe. I can understand this might not be feasible on the pricing you're aiming for...but if it is I'd highly recommend it!


In case you were unsure, the Trust DD is a single pipe into a muffler, then two pipes coming out of the muffler (about a 1.5 fee before the diff) that open up into ~3.5" oval slanted tips.



Fujitsubo makes an exhaust that is 2 pipes the whole time, and basically has more ground clearance then the stock exhaust. I will edit in some pictures of it if I can find them.


Here is the only picture I can find of this exhaust....it isn't very good, but you get the point.

http://www.upgarage.com/upgarage/gazou/0708/0708103012028/0708103012028s1.jpg



The muffler they're using is super thin because of the two pipes.

[spartanmisfit]

I'm ready for this to be done. Are you going to sell just the mufflers too? I alreadys have 2 full exhaust systems but I hate both of the mufflers.

[Def]

Aluminum has a melting point between 1050 to 1150 degrees Fahrenheit, yet it gets soft and unstable at far lower temps. here is somthing interesting that i found.

ANSI B31.1 (Power Piping Code, 1980 Edition) neither lists allowable stresses for aluminum for temperatures in excess of 400°F nor permits its use at such temperatures. While it's true that exhaust plumbing isn't power piping, it's still a reasonable guideline to follow, and material that's only good to 3000 psi at 400°F will be utterly worthless at 1000°F.

The end near the muffler would corrode do to the combustion gases combined with moisture form Hydrochloric, Sulfuric, Nitric, Carbonic and other acids. That's why the back end of normal carbon steel systems rust out and the real reason stainless steel systems originally started (not the bling factor!)

the bottom line is yes, you can make an exhaust out of aluminum. no, it wont last long. yes, it will be light. yes, you will have to replace it offten.

thanks.

Mike

The pressure inside a catback is barely above ambient, so that's not a design consideration.

TONS of Hondas have proven aluminum cat back exhausts work just fine. They don't stand up to scraping as well as stainless steel due to being softer, but other than that no reason it wouldn't last a very long time if it is properly designed.

The minimal acid exposure will affect 304 stainless about as much as 6061 aluminum.



As for the thickness of the Ti, I definitely wouldn't go over 0.035" wall. 0.028" wall should work just fine if you support it well(full wrap around hangers and gussets on the flanges).

[misfitsfreak81]

The pressure inside a catback is barely above ambient, so that's not a design consideration.

TONS of Hondas have proven aluminum cat back exhausts work just fine. They don't stand up to scraping as well as stainless steel due to being softer, but other than that no reason it wouldn't last a very long time if it is properly designed.

The minimal acid exposure will affect 304 stainless about as much as 6061 aluminum.


As for the thickness of the Ti, I definitely wouldn't go over 0.035" wall. 0.028" wall should work just fine if you support it well(full wrap around hangers and gussets on the flanges).


Right on, I appreciate the info. Currently Im not planning on doing any aluminum exhausts though. In the future it is something I may play with just to see how long they would hold up. Im sure some of it would depend on where people live and what kind of conditions they drive in as well as the conditions of the roads.


I'm ready for this to be done. Are you going to sell just the mufflers too? I alreadys have 2 full exhaust systems but I hate both of the mufflers.

I can get just the mufflers if thats all you are interested in. Im ready for this to be started as well. however my suppliers are somewhat dragging their feet. its kinda to be expected though for the order size im looking for. if i had $20000 to order a few hundred feet at a time im sure theyd be doing backflips to fill my needs. let me know if you would like me to get you a price on the muffler. thanks.

I would be willing to take measurements from my Trust DD if you want.


Also, I would recommend looking into 2.5" or 2.25" piping. You will gain massive amounts of ground clearance if you run 2 pipes rather then one single pipe. I can understand this might not be feasible on the pricing you're aiming for...but if it is I'd highly recommend it!


In case you were unsure, the Trust DD is a single pipe into a muffler, then two pipes coming out of the muffler (about a 1.5 fee before the diff) that open up into ~3.5" oval slanted tips.



Fujitsubo makes an exhaust that is 2 pipes the whole time, and basically has more ground clearance then the stock exhaust. I will edit in some pictures of it if I can find them.


Here is the only picture I can find of this exhaust....it isn't very good, but you get the point.

http://www.upgarage.com/upgarage/gazou/0708/0708103012028/0708103012028s1.jpg



The muffler they're using is super thin because of the two pipes.

yeah messurements would be great for the DD. using two pipes would get great ground clearance but would more than double the price just because of material costs.

Thanks for the responds..I am thinking..better yet, i'll send you a stock exhaust for mock up if everything works out within budget.

yeah you could certainly send me a stock exhaust. right now i have access to my s14 and also a s13. it would be great to get a skyline one and maybe and fd3s as well.

thanks again everyone. I hope to have prices up tomorrow. keep checking back and feel free to shoot me any questions or suggestions.

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto

[95KA-Turbo]

You will need to use two pipes at some point if you're going to make it anything like a Trust DD. The reason that exhaust is so saught after (other then the fact that it sounds amazing and looks great) is because of the ground clearance it offers.

Not to say that people wouldn't buy more of a Dart Izumi styled exhaust...but I just know I wouldn't because to put a muffler under a car that has 3" inlets and outlets requires that the muffler be at least 4" thick. Not to mention there isn't enough room to bend the exhaust up high enough near the diff to offer as great of ground clearance as the DD offers.....unless you can get oval piping, which would be freaking awesome!


I know my muffler hits on speed bumps and what not and it hangs ~1" lower then the "frame rails" under the car. Most of my friend's exhausts hang a whole inch lower then mine does.

I fully believe that if you have a S14 to build this exhaust on you wont have any issues with making it tuck up extremely well. It just wont be as effective as having two pipes (at least in the rear section).





Let me know what sort of measurements you need.

[misfitsfreak81]

You will need to use two pipes at some point if you're going to make it anything like a Trust DD. The reason that exhaust is so saught after (other then the fact that it sounds amazing and looks great) is because of the ground clearance it offers.

Not to say that people wouldn't buy more of a Dart Izumi styled exhaust...but I just know I wouldn't because to put a muffler under a car that has 3" inlets and outlets requires that the muffler be at least 4" thick. Not to mention there isn't enough room to bend the exhaust up high enough near the diff to offer as great of ground clearance as the DD offers.....unless you can get oval piping, which would be freaking awesome!


I know my muffler hits on speed bumps and what not and it hangs ~1" lower then the "frame rails" under the car. Most of my friend's exhausts hang a whole inch lower then mine does.

I fully believe that if you have a S14 to build this exhaust on you wont have any issues with making it tuck up extremely well. It just wont be as effective as having two pipes (at least in the rear section).





Let me know what sort of measurements you need.

agreed, ground clearance is a major issue. like ive said befor i will try to tuck it up as far as possible. BUT... there is always the fact that you can raise the ride height just a bit on your coilovers. i know i will probly piss some people off by sugesting that haha. its up to each user what is an acceptable ride height both for performance as well as looks.

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto

[C-unit]

Here is some suggestion, I don't know if you have consider it when you do the drawing. You can put the exhaust mount on a Clamp n clamp it around the exhaust. This way, you don't have to make the mount as precise and take some stress off the exhaust as well.

[screaminfast]

Lots of interesting information in here. I think I might stick with stainless though because we are going to coat the entire exhaust with swaintech coating and also heatwrap it.


^Off topic but your avatar seats are f'en sexy... i want. What are they

Cobra Evolution S :D

[misfitsfreak81]

Lots of interesting information in here. I think I might stick with stainless though because we are going to coat the entire exhaust with swaintech coating and also heatwrap it.


Cobra Evolution S :D

In the future I will probly do some stainless as well. Im not positive but im guessing the cost to swaintech coat an entire exhaust would be more expense than its worth. they charge like $170 and up just to do a turbo manifold. dont get me wrong, the shit is sweet, I just dont know how much of a benefit doing the whole thing would be. I would totally recomend against using header wrap. youll have well over $100 into the wrap and it mostlikely will just rot away since its under the car.

Here is some suggestion, I don't know if you have consider it when you do the drawing. You can put the exhaust mount on a Clamp n clamp it around the exhaust. This way, you don't have to make the mount as precise and take some stress off the exhaust as well.

Thanks for the info. that is how I was planing on doing the hangers.

as a note to all who have expressed interest on this topic you may be happy to know that I have secured a titanium supplier that has exactly the size tubing im looking for and a pretty much unlimited supply of it. also the pricing is not all that steep and will surely come down as i order in larger quantitys. Im hoping to have start the fabbing on this in the next couple of weeks hopefully. after the first one is done and ready to go i may consider doing a group buy type sell to be sure everyone gets the best price possible. I will be sure to post more info as I have it. thanks again.

Mike

North Shore Performance Auto

[genericforumname]

any way you would make it with a double tip to make it look more factory? I would love to have a Ti exhaust but hate those n1 style cans, draws too much attention.

[screaminfast]

In the future I will probly do some stainless as well. Im not positive but im guessing the cost to swaintech coat an entire exhaust would be more expense than its worth. they charge like $170 and up just to do a turbo manifold. dont get me wrong, the shit is sweet, I just dont know how much of a benefit doing the whole thing would be. I would totally recomend against using header wrap. youll have well over $100 into the wrap and it mostlikely will just rot away since its under the car.

Swaintech becomes fairly reasonable when you get a 50% sponsorship discount :D As far as heatwrap, the car is 95% race/drift and 5% occasional street trip to a meet, etc. I may not need the heat wrap and we may only coat/wrap manifold and downpipe.

[DeadlyZ33]

I think you would be better off making a full Ti exhaust for a z33. There is much more money being spent to mod the Z right now. The only full Ti single for the Z is the JIC magic which costs 1900 I believe. Those things sell like hotcakes so if you made one a bit cheaper with a better angled can many people would want it. Go with the oversized 80mm piping if it's available, everyone loves the term "oversized" Although I'd consider upgrading my single 3" to 3.5" if you made that.

[racepar1]

I think you would be better off making a full Ti exhaust for a z33. There is much more money being spent to mod the Z right now. The only full Ti single for the Z is the JIC magic which costs 1900 I believe. Those things sell like hotcakes so if you made one a bit cheaper with a better angled can many people would want it. Go with the oversized 80mm piping if it's available, everyone loves the term "oversized" Although I'd consider upgrading my single 3" to 3.5" if you made that.

I would definitely agree with this post. You'll sell a few to 240 guys, but you can sell a boatload to z guys. I doubt that there is any way that this exhaust would cost anything less then $800-$1000. At that price it is just out of reach for most people. As much as I would love a titanium exhaust there is no way that I could ever spend more then $500 on an exhaust. Well, at least not anytime in the near future. Also there is no way that I could JUSTIFY spending more then $500 on an exhaust either, unless the entire rest of the car is done (which will NEVER happen).

[misfitsfreak81]

Swaintech becomes fairly reasonable when you get a 50% sponsorship discount :D As far as heatwrap, the car is 95% race/drift and 5% occasional street trip to a meet, etc. I may not need the heat wrap and we may only coat/wrap manifold and downpipe.

Thats sick that you get such a good deal with them. Im probly gonna send out my pistons and head to have them coat it as soon as get some cashish. be sure to post pics when its done.

I think you would be better off making a full Ti exhaust for a z33. There is much more money being spent to mod the Z right now. The only full Ti single for the Z is the JIC magic which costs 1900 I believe. Those things sell like hotcakes so if you made one a bit cheaper with a better angled can many people would want it. Go with the oversized 80mm piping if it's available, everyone loves the term "oversized" Although I'd consider upgrading my single 3" to 3.5" if you made that.

I would definitely agree with this post. You'll sell a few to 240 guys, but you can sell a boatload to z guys. I doubt that there is any way that this exhaust would cost anything less then $800-$1000. At that price it is just out of reach for most people. As much as I would love a titanium exhaust there is no way that I could ever spend more then $500 on an exhaust. Well, at least not anytime in the near future. Also there is no way that I could JUSTIFY spending more then $500 on an exhaust either, unless the entire rest of the car is done (which will NEVER happen).

I totally agree with both of you, this exhaust will be probly about $800+/- for the s13/s14 guys. I would love to do one for the z33 for sure. im not sure what the pricing would be on those, but im confident that i can keep it well under $1900 that the JIC one costs. I plan to mock the first exhaust up in stainless just to get the details down right so i dont blow through a few hundred bucks worth of Ti just to figure it out. im also planing to get a mandrel bender soon so hopefully the welding can be kept to a minimum.

once again, i thank everyone who has expressed interest in this project. i hope to make some of you happy when this comes to finished product. keep checking back.

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto

[[email protected]]

do you have a chamber to weld in? because to weld TI is to be done in a chamber case or room with purge gas.

[atutt]

^It can be welded the same way as stainless...

Technically, SS should be welded in an atmosphere like Ti.

[[email protected]]

^It can be welded the same way as stainless...

Technically, SS should be welded in an atmosphere like Ti.


yes it can be but its not the right way to do it. on SS you can weld it the conventional way.

[atutt]

yes it can be but its not the right way to do it. on SS you can weld it the conventional way.
Yes, you are correct. Ti should be fully submersed in a gas filled atmosphere.
SS should as well, but it's not as critical as Ti is.

My personal experience with Ti. It's a bitch to bend because it's springy, and it can be a bitch to machine.
The funnest part about a Ti exhaust is watching it bottom out going 150+ and seeing nothing but white.

[[email protected]]

Yea for the cost and weight ill stick to alum. Then you won't have a "oh shit face" every driveway n speed bump u face

[atutt]

And just for the record:
A 1"x12"x12" Plate (TxLxW) of the following weigh:

Steel - 40.84lbs
Aluminum 6061 - 14.14lbs
Aluminum 7075 - 14.57lbs
Titanium - 23.48 lbs
Stainless Steel 300series - 42.06lbs
Stainless Steel 400Series - 41.25lbs

For fun
Tungsten - 98.13lbs
Magnesium 9.35lbs
Beryllium - 9.64lbs

[misfitsfreak81]

do you have a chamber to weld in? because to weld TI is to be done in a chamber case or room with purge gas.

No, I do not have a gas chamber to weld in. in an application such as this its not needed or required. Ti can be welded properly when the following conditions are met: it must be TOTALLY CLEAN, properly sheilded with 100% pure argon, back purged (just as stainless should be), and not overheated during the welding process.

If this were an aerospace or medical application then yes, it would require the use of an argon chamber.

^It can be welded the same way as stainless...

Technically, SS should be welded in an atmosphere like Ti.

Once again this is kinda true. as long as there is plenty of clean, pure argon to shield the weld pool and its properly back purged you should be alright.



Yes, you are correct. Ti should be fully submersed in a gas filled atmosphere.
SS should as well, but it's not as critical as Ti is.

My personal experience with Ti. It's a bitch to bend because it's springy, and it can be a bitch to machine.
The funnest part about a Ti exhaust is watching it bottom out going 150+ and seeing nothing but white.

And just for the record:
A 1"x12"x12" Plate (TxLxW) of the following weigh:

Steel - 40.84lbs
Aluminum 6061 - 14.14lbs
Aluminum 7075 - 14.57lbs
Titanium - 23.48 lbs
Stainless Steel 300series - 42.06lbs
Stainless Steel 400Series - 41.25lbs

For fun
Tungsten - 98.13lbs
Magnesium 9.35lbs
Beryllium - 9.64lbs

That is some awesome info, those weights are a good thing to have. Like you said Ti has to be welded in a pure argon enviroment, IF you are doing something such as aerospace, medical or structural welding. since an exhaust is not any of these things it is not critical to have a pure argon enviroment.

[jamg]

damn...$800 for the s13 one? :(

looks like i'm stuck with a 3 inch one, with a flow master muffler.

[atutt]

No, I do not have a gas chamber to weld in. in an application such as this its not needed or required. Ti can be welded properly when the following conditions are met: it must be TOTALLY CLEAN, properly sheilded with 100% pure argon, back purged (just as stainless should be), and not overheated during the welding process.

If this were an aerospace or medical application then yes, it would require the use of an argon chamber.

Once again this is kinda true. as long as there is plenty of clean, pure argon to shield the weld pool and its properly back purged you should be alright.

That is some awesome info, those weights are a good thing to have. Like you said Ti has to be welded in a pure argon enviroment, IF you are doing something such as aerospace, medical or structural welding. since an exhaust is not any of these things it is not critical to have a pure argon enviroment.

Yes it really is good info.

You are correct. Because this isn't something as critical like an aerospace piece, it technically doesn't NEED to in a contained atmosphere.

I was just being technical. Both Ti and SS should technically be in an atmosphere for the best possible results. However, they don't NEED to be to still maintain a good weld.

I look forward to seeing the outcome of these.

[misfitsfreak81]

damn...$800 for the s13 one? :(

looks like i'm stuck with a 3 inch one, with a flow master muffler.

Yeah, I feel ya on that one. its tough because of the raw price of Ti Tubing. If I could get 10 or 15 people to commit to this in the form of a group buy my price on Tubing would come down so the prices of the finished product would come down as well.

Yes it really is good info.

You are correct. Because this isn't something as critical like an aerospace piece, it technically doesn't NEED to in a contained atmosphere.

I was just being technical. Both Ti and SS should technically be in an atmosphere for the best possible results. However, they don't NEED to be to still maintain a good weld.

I look forward to seeing the outcome of these.

Yeah, I look forward to getting one of these done up as well. thanks.

Mike

[C-unit]

any news on the SS prototype???

[misfitsfreak81]

Sorry, guys, been busy for a bit and havnt been on here in a while.
Nope, I have not had a chance to start on the exhaust, Ive been in the process of trying to finalize a new job so thats taken most of my time. I will keep it updated though as progress is made. thanks.

Mike

[xs240]

imagine... 2.5" titanium exhaust :P That would be light for us KA guys :D