Energy Suspension Rear Bushings, Tein S-Tech, KYB AGX Harsh!!!

[p0onsta]

I have a question about the Energy Suspension bushings. I have pretty much ES bushings all around. They feel awesome for the tension rods and flcas. However, installed on the rear they make the car feel a bit harsher.

I lubed them up generously when installing. I've had the fronts installed for over a year now, and no squeaks. The rears were noisy once installed, but are now quiet.

I have a problem with my suspension where the wheel doesn't rebound quick enough. Going over a speed bump, it would compress, and then my rear would go airborne for a bit before crashing down onto the pavement. I have Tein S-Techs on KYB AGXs, set to 1/2 F/R, respectively. I know it's not bad shocks since i Just replaced them to make sure they're not bad. The springs are genuine too, ordered from Phase2. The fronts are extremely compliant and comfy. As a control, I've tried this setup on a friend's S13 coupe (I drive an S14) and it was nowhere nearly as harsh, and he's on 3/8 F/R on his struts. Does anybody know what the problem is?

Tying it back into the bushings, I wonder if it may be the rear bushings as well? After installing it, and torquing it down, the arms would need quite a bit of force to move around. With the rear wheels off the ground, I needed to have a 160lb. friend stand on the rear hub to move the suspension arms down. I understand that these bushings need periodic maintenance, but the fronts have been okay for over a year, and these rears have less than 500 miles on them. For those with these bushings, how easy is it to move the rear suspension around with the springs and struts off?

thanks for your help in advance!! I live in NYC and commute to NJ every morning and back at night, so i'd love to be able to save my kidneys...

[alkemyst]

hopefully, everything is torqued correctly.

I was looking for a mild street setup...turned out the coilovers were actually the more mild.

Many that I talked too felt the same way...it's hard to get a good match with springs and strut combos.

[p0onsta]

yea, everything is torqued down properly. I'm guessing maybe i torqued them down too much and it's seizing? the oem rubber pieces had the inner cylinder protrude out furthest, and the ES pieces has them flush with the bushing.

How hard is it to move the arm when torqued down? with the shock off, i needed to place a 160lb weight to move the arms down an inch. Can anybody chime in on this?

I'm sure the combination can work well too, of shocks and springs, that is, because i have a friend with the same exact setup and it's much much smoother.

thanks guys!

[p0onsta]

Can anybody help me out here? I'm at a total loss as to what the problem is. Going up bumps, it feels fine. Coming down into a dip, it feels harsh. The wheel isn't rebounding quick enough.

I have:
Tein S-Tech Springs
KYB AGX Struts
OEM Arms with Energy Suspension Graphite Injected (Black) Bushings.
17x8 Enkei NT03+M
Bridgestone Potenza RE070 225/45R17


I know the lower profile and stiffer sidewall of the wheel/tire makes it harsher, but it still feels very harsh on my OEM wheels/rubber.
I don't think it's necessarily the bushings, because I was exhibiting this problem even when I had the OEM rubber bushings in there.
I've swapped out the struts with brand new units from TireRack. Twice. Same problem.
I've tried both old and new struts with the Tein Springs and the OEM Springs. Same problem.


Any ideas, guys? I'm totally lost here. Maybe somebody local to me can come by and chime in? I'm in Brooklyn, NY and Clifton, NJ.

I had a friend with an S13 Coupe come by with the exact same setup and his feel perfectly fine. I'm about to give up on this car because it's now become my DD and this harsh ride will just not do...

[alkemyst]

Where did you pick up the springs / struts...wear and even counterfeit crap is out there. I think this forum had a dude that bought springs that weren't even for his car although the seller swore they came off the same type.

Harsh is really subjective though 225/45's though are on the meatier side of things, I have been on 205/40's (not a 240SX) and it was definitely much harsher than the stock 65 series that came on that car...

Being you have rode in an identical car, I'd point to the struts or springs being off. Outside of alignment issues or previous damage to geometry there isn't much else to look at.

good luck with it...I know how crappy it is to finally get everything put together to find out something isn't right....which is one step above not being able to get the car at least drivable and then had already destroyed the stock parts removing them.

[p0onsta]

Struts i got from Tirerack. Springs I got from Phase2Motortrend.
I would hate to think that either of these sources would sell counterfeits.

The suspension geometry is most definitely not damaged.

I was thinking that maybe the bushings are binding. Loosening them to about 5 ft. lbs, everything was silky smooth. obviously this is too loose to commute in. I tightened them to about 30 ft. lbs. Now they are comfy, but still harsher than the other guy's car, and the 5 ft. lbs i had on it.

I have Energy Suspension bushings in back, and they are freshly installed, so they still have the lube in them. Does anybody know what the proper torque to tighten them to is? It is definitely not the FSM value, since that causes way too much binding. I was thinking that when torqued down fully, the sides of the subframe, etc, squeezes on the actual poly, and binds. In the OEM bushings, the subframe and arms only squeeze onto the inner metal sleeve. I was thinking either shimming washers or dremeling down the slip of the ES bushings to be more like the whiteline ones. Any ideas guys?

[alkemyst]

I don't think it's necessarily the bushings, because I was exhibiting this problem even when I had the OEM rubber bushings in there.

I had a friend with an S13 Coupe come by with the exact same setup and his feel perfectly fine. I'm about to give up on this car because it's now become my DD and this harsh ride will just not do...

what is it then? You said you had the same issue before the bushings.

What did your friend torque things too?

[p0onsta]

I did originally doubt the bushings. I did have the issue before the bushings. After the bushings were installed I've tried everything. At a loss for ideas, I decided to give loosening the bushings a try since I read about poly bushings binding.

I loosened them and the car rode very nicely. I am now sure the bushings are the problem. I don't know what my friend torqued them to, nor does he remember. I'll try to find out.
Torqued to 5, the car rides very nicely.
Torqued to 20, the car rides ok.
Torqued to 65, the ride is unbearable. Barely any suspsension movement over bumps.

Thanks in advance, alkemyst. You've been a great help thus far.

[alkemyst]

If you had the problems prior to the bushings then it should be something else causing it. It's possible that the problem has now damaged the bushings.

Personally at this stage I'd take it to a good alignment shop with a new set of bushings they can install. The lower arm is torqued to the body 80-94 ft-lbs.

Did you contact energy suspension yet?