New headgasket, Timing chain off?

[kpc_0721]

Motor is a 91 KA24DE with a 95 head.

Just finished changing my head gasket due to the previous owner putting anti-seize on it and fired the car up first try.

Car has ran smoother then ever before and holds idle perfect at around 550rpms. I know idle should be around 650-750 but even that should not make a huge difference how far my timing is off.

Also it sounds like it has a big exhaust leak, put a new mr.copper gasket on and just recently before head gasket put all new vibrant gaskets on the exhaust. I don't think it would be the head gasket some how leaking because I figure there would be water or something leaking from it correct?

Every time I try and give it some throttle it doesn't want to move much and bogs.

I lined the cams up like the jim wolf guide says to do as I have done a few times in the past with no problems but it still seems like its off a tooth.

I am concerned that the previous owner may have timed the lower chain wrong possibly? Would the car even start if he did and if so would it hold idle so well?

I'm wondering if anyone knows how to check the idler sprocket and chain to see if it is correct because I have never had to do it?

[johngriff]

Sounds like lower chain is off.

Russ will probably correct me, but I think you have to take the front cover off of the ka (like the sr) to get the chain lined back up.

Or you can "count the links" (russ help)

[kpc_0721]

I just checked my cam gears again and it seems to be fine.

Also I heard the double row chain has to be placed in a certain way and can't just be put in, anyone know why this is?

I lined up the silver link with the little dot on the idler gear and the two darker links with my cam marks. Is that wrong?

[fueled by hate]

Try cranking it to tdc and see where your cam lobes sit. That's the easiest way to tell if your timing is off.

[kpc_0721]

I have turned the motor by hand probably 40 times and it lines up with the marks fine at TDC.

Also the lower chain lines up correctly. Well at least I think so.

The gold link is on the mark on the lower sprocket at tdc so I am assuming that is correct?

Should I possibly try moving the distributor over a tooth each way and see if that works because lineing it up with the #1 plug wire doesn't seem to be working?

[kpc_0721]

Here's a pic I just took of the cams. Seem to be spot on so I dunno whats going on?

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u81/kpc_0721/CIMG2085.jpg

[FrankDukes]

Motor is a 91 KA24DE with a 95 head.

Just finished changing my head gasket due to the previous owner putting anti-seize on it and fired the car up first try.

Car has ran smoother then ever before and holds idle perfect at around 550rpms. I know idle should be around 650-750 but even that should not make a huge difference how far my timing is off.

Also it sounds like it has a big exhaust leak, put a new mr.copper gasket on and just recently before head gasket put all new vibrant gaskets on the exhaust. I don't think it would be the head gasket some how leaking because I figure there would be water or something leaking from it correct?

Every time I try and give it some throttle it doesn't want to move much and bogs.

I lined the cams up like the jim wolf guide says to do as I have done a few times in the past with no problems but it still seems like its off a tooth.

I am concerned that the previous owner may have timed the lower chain wrong possibly? Would the car even start if he did and if so would it hold idle so well?

I'm wondering if anyone knows how to check the idler sprocket and chain to see if it is correct because I have never had to do it?


Factory Spec on Idle is 750rpm (+/- 50). So 700 to 800 is okay. 650 is a bit low. My car idles perfectly everytime at (750rpm) (+/- 15)

Secondly, have you tried timing your ignition?

Your ignition should be 20* BTDC. (+/- 2 degrees) so 18* to 22* is okay.

My timing was at 18* or 19* when I had my Smog(emissions) last month. You retard your timing a couple degrees when you are about to smog, it will help it pass very well.

Check your Idle, Timing with and without the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) connected. This ensures an accurate reading. This TPS is on your Throttle body and has a pigtail that usually is zip tied to your Rubber hose the is connected in bettween your PCV valve and Intake tube.

Sometimes a car will idle fine, but when load is put on it, the ignition timing changes or the variables of Air, Fuel, and Spark are individually or all off it's timing.

***If there is a leak on the Intake side (such as a vaccum leak, or a bad intake gasket, (WHILE the engine is on and at Idle) you can use WD40 or Carb Cleaner and spray a generous amount on any Rubber vac, hose, or suspect gaskets or seams. (If there is a vac problem or bad gasket, the Liquid WD40 or Carb Cleaner will get sucked into the intake and it will hesitate as well as you can visually see the liquids getting sucked in.)

***If there is a leak on the Exhaust side, I always do a paper test. If the lead is on the the exhuast tubing after the manifold you can do this test. Put up a feather or piece of paper around the joint, flange and gaskets and if there is a leak then the paper will flap around*** HOWEVER, if the leak is on the exhaust manifold (Headers) it's hard to determind because the Wind generated from the Clutch Fan will deter you from successfully attainting a reading.

Those are a few tips, however, your problem may be various issues.

Checklist:

1. IACV (Idle Air Control Valve) Location: back of intake manifold. Solution: It gets dirty and needs cleaning. Carb Cleaner.

2. MAF: Easy fix, borrow a friends Good MAF, swap, and see if there is any fluctuations.

3. Injectors: OHM test your injectors: Perfect Injectors: 11 OHMS (+/-3 Ohm)

Those are pretty much the primary things to look at. :hsdance: OH, make sure your EGR Hard Lines and all the EGR Stuff is BLOCKED OFF! Maybe you forgot to put bad an EGR component !

[FrankDukes]

Oh, In addition, I theorized that since you have a 1991 block and 1995 head, the geometric dimensioning of the mated surfaces are not flat.

You must check the flatness of your surfaces, meaning, you must be sure that the bottom of the 91 head is flat, and the top of the 95 block is flat.

Even a small geometric dimensioning error of bad tolerance of flatness can obviously create a gap and thus, a leak.

That flatness tolerance should not be over +/- .005" (Five Thousandths) to .010" (Thousandths) of an Inche/ per ft. in my opinion.

[kpc_0721]

I can't set timing because something is off somewhere. That is what I'm trying to figure out.

When I put a timing light to it and fully turn turn it counter-clockwise(retard I think) it comes with in about an inch of the marks so I know its off a tooth or something.

IACV was cleaned before head was put back on, maf and injectors were both good before I pulled the head.

Someone said the problem was I didn't mark the chain when I pulled it off. I just lined up the dark chain links with the cam marks at TDC which I figured was fine to do.

It's a 91 block and a 95 head, I just had the head milled before I did the head gasket.

Would a leaking head gasket cause the timing to be thrown off that far and not be able to bring up the revs?

I could see if the car was running like shit but it holds idle perfect which is why I believe it's timing related.

[brent the junkie]

yeah to me it definitely sounds like you have a vac leak somewhere or you're not gettin enough gas. If you're head gasket was leakin the car wouldn't be able to hold a constant idle and there would be other signs like coolant in your oil. Maybe you forgot to plug up a connector somewhere. I'ld check that first. Follow your wiring harness around the motor and make sure all your connectors and grounds are plugged back up and in the right spot. Then check all your vac lines on the intake mani and the one on your fuel rail. If your EGR is taken off make sure everything else that goes with it is plugged somehow. Check to make sure your plugs are firing. Did you adjust your IACV? Does the KADE hace a SCV like the KAE does? That might be a possibility, but a far out one. If everything is plugged up and workin right, and your distributor is set correctly the only thing I could think of would be that you got a cracked valve or maybe they're not seating correctly. That could also be why it sounds like you got an exhaust leak. Look over your exhaust and make sure everything is tightened up and there aren't any holes and if so get a piece of paper or napkin or something big enough to barely cover all of the end of your exhaust and hold it up to it with the car idling and if it starts suckin the paper back into the exhuast instead of just blowin it back you got a bad valve.

[brent the junkie]

That flatness tolerance should not be over +/- .005" (Five Thousandths) to .010" (Thousandths) of an Inche/ per ft. in my opinion.


tolerance on the KAs is +/- .006" per foot.