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View Full Version : RIP Pontiac. So long G8 and Solstice. Us enthusiasts will miss you.


exitspeed
04-27-2009, 07:11 AM
Yep. It's ofiicially official. Pontiac is done. I almost shed a tear.

I'm still shocked to see Pontiac go before Saab, Hummer, Saturn, and GMC. But I guess I'm not looking at the books.


PRESS RELEASE:

FOR RELEASE: 2009-04-27

GM Accelerates its Reinvention as a Leaner, More Viable Company

Updated Viability Plan Speeds, Deepens Restructuring of U.S. Operations


DETROIT -- General Motors (NYSE: GM) today presented an updated Viability Plan that will speed the reinvention of GM's U.S. operations into a leaner, more customer-focused, and more cost-competitive automaker.

The Viability Plan is included in an exchange offer whereby GM is offering certain bondholders shares of GM common stock and accrued interest in exchange for certain outstanding notes.

Revised Viability Plan goes further and faster

The Viability Plan announced today builds on the February 17 Viability Plan submitted to the U.S. Treasury. GM Media Online (http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=2&docid=52168). The revised Plan accelerates the timeline for a number of important actions and makes deeper cuts in several key areas of GM's operations, with the objective to make us a leaner, faster, and more customer-focused organization going forward.

Significant changes include:

* A focus on four core brands in the U.S. - Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC - with fewer nameplates and a more competitive level of marketing support per brand.
* A more aggressive restructuring of GM's U.S. dealer organization to better focus dealer resources for improved sales and customer service.
* Improved U.S. capacity utilization through accelerated idling and closures of powertrain, stamping, and assembly plants.
* Lower structural costs, which GM North America (GMNA) projects will enable it to breakeven (on an adjusted EBIT basis) at a U.S. total industry volume of approximately 10 million vehicles, based on the pricing and share assumptions in the plan. This rate is substantially below the 15 to 17 million annual vehicle sales rates recorded from 1995 through 2007.

"We are taking tough but necessary actions that are critical to GM's long-term viability," said Fritz Henderson, GM president and CEO. "Our responsibility is clear - to secure GM's future - and we intend to succeed. At the same time, we also understand the impact these actions will have on our employees, dealers, unions, suppliers, shareholders, bondholders, and communities, and we will do whatever we can to mitigate the effects on the extended GM team."

Fewer U.S. brands, nameplates, and dealers

As part of the revised Viability Plan and the need to move faster and further, GM in the U.S. will focus its resources on four core brands, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. The Pontiac brand will be phased out by the end of 2010. GM will offer a total of 34 nameplates in 2010, a reduction of 29 percent from 48 nameplates in 2008, reflecting both the reduction in brands and continued emphasis on fewer and stronger entries. This four-brand strategy will enable GM to better focus its new product development programs and provide more competitive levels of market support.

The revised plan moves up the resolution of Saab, Saturn, and Hummer to the end of 2009, at the latest. Updates on these brands will be provided as these initiatives progress.

Working with its dealers, GM anticipates reducing its U.S. dealer count from 6,246 in 2008 to 3,605 by the end of 2010, a reduction of 42 percent. This is a further reduction of 500 dealers, and four years sooner, than in the February 17 Plan. The goal is to accomplish this reduction in an orderly, cost-effective, and customer-focused way. This reduction in U.S. dealers will allow for a more competitive dealer network and higher sales effectiveness in all markets. More details on these initiatives will be provided in May.

Sales volume and market share projections

The Viability Plan anticipates improved financial results despite more conservative U.S. sales volume expectations going forward. The lower volume expectations are the result of managing the business with fewer nameplates and dealers, leaner inventories, and reduced market share. To address the inventory issue, GM on April 23 announced U.S. production schedule reductions of approximately 190,000 vehicles during the second and early third quarters of 2009.

The Viability Plan also reduces GM's market share projections to adjust for the impact of the brand and dealer consolidation, as well as for the short-term impact of speculation regarding a GM bankruptcy. The plan assumes a 19.5 percent share in 2009, with share stabilizing in the 18.4 to 18.9 percent range in subsequent years.

"We have strong new product coming for our four core brands: the Chevrolet Camaro, Equinox, Cruze and Volt; Buick LaCrosse; GMC Terrain; and Cadillac SRX and CTS Sport Wagon and Coupe," said Henderson. "A tighter focus by GM and its dealers will help give these products the capital investment, marketing and advertising support they need to be truly successful."

Lower structural costs, lower breakeven point

The Viability Plan also lowers GMNA's breakeven volume to a U.S. annual industry volume of 10 million total vehicles, based on the pricing and share assumptions in the plan. This lower breakeven point (at an adjusted EBIT level) better positions GM to generate positive cash flow and earn an adequate return on capital over the course of a normal business cycle, a requirement set forth by the U.S. Treasury in its March 30 viability plan assessment.

GM will lower its breakeven point by cutting its structural costs faster and deeper than had previously been planned:

* Manufacturing: Consistent with the mandate to accelerate restructuring, we plan to reduce the total number of assembly, powertrain, and stamping plants in the U.S. from 47 in 2008 to 34 by the end of 2010, a reduction of 28 percent, and to 31 by 2012. This would reflect the acceleration of six plant idling/closures from the February 17 plan, and one additional plant idling. Throughout this transition, GM will continue to implement its flexible global manufacturing strategy (GMS), which allows multiple body styles and architectures to be built in one plant. This enables GM to use its capital more efficiently, increase capacity utilization, and respond more quickly to market shifts.

* Employment: U.S. hourly employment levels are projected to be reduced from about 61,000 in 2008 to 40,000 in 2010, a 34 percent reduction, and level off at about 38,000 starting in 2011. This further planned reduction of an additional 7,000 to 8,000 employees from the February 17 Plan is primarily the result of the previously discussed operational efficiencies, nameplate reductions, and plant closings. GM also anticipates a further decline in salaried and executive employment as it continues to assess its structure and execute the Viability Plan. More details will be announced as soon as they are finalized with the various stakeholders.
* Labor costs: The Viability Plan assumes a reduction of U.S. hourly labor costs from $7.6 billion in 2008 to $5 billion in 2010, a 34 percent reduction. GM will continue to work with its UAW partners to accomplish this through a reduction in total U.S. hourly employment as well as through modifications in the collective bargaining agreement.

As a result of these and other actions, GMNA's structural costs are projected to decline 25 percent, from $30.8 billion in 2008 to $23.2 billion in 2010, a further decline of $1.8 billion by 2010 versus the February 17 Plan.

Strengthening GM's balance sheet

Another key element of GM's restructuring will be taking the necessary actions to strengthen its balance sheet. GM today took an important step in improving its balance sheet by launching a bond exchange offer for approximately $27 billion of its unsecured public debt. If successful, the bond exchange would result in the conversion of a large majority of this debt to equity.

"A stronger balance sheet would free the company to invest in the products and technologies of the future," Henderson said. "It will also help provide stability and security to our customers, our dealers, our employees, and our suppliers."

Another important part of improving the balance sheet will be the ongoing discussions with the UAW to modify the terms of the Voluntary Employee Benefit Association (VEBA), and with the U.S. Treasury regarding possible conversion of its debt to equity. The current bond exchange offer is conditioned on the converting to equity of at least 50 percent of GM's outstanding U.S. Treasury debt at June 1, 2009, and at least 50 percent of GM's future financial obligations to the new VEBA. GM expects a debt reduction of at least $20 billion between the two actions.

In total, the U.S. Treasury debt conversion, VEBA modification and bond exchange could result in at least $44 billion in debt reduction.

Throughout the Plan, GM will continue to make significant investment in future products and new technologies, with an investment of $5.4 billion in 2009, and investments ranging from $5.3 to $6.7 billion from 2010 to 2014. Very importantly, development and testing of the Chevy Volt extended-range electric car remains on track for start of production by the end of 2010 and arrival in Chevrolet dealer showrooms soon thereafter.

"The Viability Plan reflects the direction of President Obama and the U.S. Treasury that GM should go further and faster on our restructuring," Henderson said. "We appreciate their support and direction. This stronger, leaner business model will enable GM to keep doing what it does best - provide great new cars, trucks and crossovers to our customers, and continue to develop new advanced propulsion technologies that are vital for our country's economy and environment."

murda-c
04-27-2009, 07:19 AM
no 2012 firebird? awwww

fliprayzin240sx
04-27-2009, 07:23 AM
Sweet...I can call my dad and tell him "I told you so..." for buying a Solstice. He thought they were only gonna ditch the Saturn.

enkei2k
04-27-2009, 07:34 AM
how is buick still floating around? although they come out with new vehicles, i swear the newest buick i see in the streets around here are from 2003.

Phlip
04-27-2009, 07:40 AM
What will happen with the warranties of the cars that remain on the roads?

murda-c
04-27-2009, 07:45 AM
Pontiacs had the best exhaust notes mang.

TheWolf
04-27-2009, 07:56 AM
how is buick still floating around? although they come out with new vehicles, i swear the newest buick i see in the streets around here are from 2003.

In the purest, just looking at the demographics and not making stereotypes

Black people love buicks. It's not a tiger woods thing anyway but friend works there and claims they must hold some magical allure with that segment of the population.

Priests and dentists come in second. Nice car but "I didn't spend to much on a car" vibe

Phlip
04-27-2009, 07:59 AM
In the purest, just looking at the demographics and not making stereotypes

Black people love buicks. It's not a tiger woods thing anyway but friend works there and claims they must hold some magical allure with that segment of the population.

Priests and dentists come in second. Nice car but "I didn't spend to much on a car" vibe

Not down (well, up to you) here, dude. Black people buy the Cadillacs, and old gray-haired white people buy Buicks.

Future240
04-27-2009, 08:10 AM
how is buick still floating around? although they come out with new vehicles, i swear the newest buick i see in the streets around here are from 2003.

i hear they sell very well in china, but that is something i just heard, so don't quote me on that

Not down (well, up to you) here, dude. Black people buy the Cadillacs, and old gray-haired white people buy Buicks.

:word: Speaking for the black generation ages 16-25, "Who the hell wants a buick?"

MongolPup
04-27-2009, 08:18 AM
What will happen with the warranties of the cars that remain on the roads?

I believe that someone buys the rights to them and provides coverage. Or I guess another division could just pick them up. Either way I don't think it's a "ha you are screwed" situation because that would erode what trust was left with GM...."don't buy one of our cars because if we don't pull out of this nose dive, you are up shit creek with no paddle!"

i hear they sell very well in china, but that is something i just heard, so don't quote me on that


God for a non-S chassis owner you sure are on every forum haha

sub9lulu
04-27-2009, 08:24 AM
i hear they sell very well in china, but that is something i just heard, so don't quote me on that


this is true
and they dont want to chop buick because they dont want china goes "oh u are selling us some discontinued crap ?"

Antihero983
04-27-2009, 08:26 AM
Its a shame that they wont keep making at least just the G8 and Solstice...

and I cannot WAIT until they axe Saab. I honestly think I will throw a fucking celebration that day.

born from jets, ha my ass.

bigOdom1
04-27-2009, 08:28 AM
im really torn up, the price on my dream 64-68 GTO just went up

Future240
04-27-2009, 08:38 AM
God for a non-S chassis owner you sure are on every forum haha

Yep, pretty bad eh haha

VROOOM
04-27-2009, 08:46 AM
i hear they sell very well in china, but that is something i just heard, so don't quote me on that



:word: Speaking for the black generation ages 16-25, "Who the hell wants a buick?"


Grand National excluded. everyone wants a GN

Koopa Troopa
04-27-2009, 08:52 AM
Maybe cars wouldn't be so expensive to produce if they weren't the size of fucking tanks.

exitspeed
04-27-2009, 09:32 AM
how is buick still floating around? although they come out with new vehicles, i swear the newest buick i see in the streets around here are from 2003.

Becuase Buick sells well here AND is the #1 selling brand in China which is the fastest growing car market in the world. Yeah, it's kinda hard to get rid of a brand like that. Pontiac, out of all the brands GM has, is the only one only sold here in America. It makes sense getting rid of it.

What will happen with the warranties of the cars that remain on the roads?

Warranties will remain. They'll do the same thing they did with Olds. It doesn't say that anywhere, but I'm willing to bet on it. They fuckin BETTER. I just had my grandparents go out and buy a brand new 2009 Pontiac Vibe. I honestly did not think this was going to happen this way or i woulda steered them more towards the HHR.

Antihero983
04-27-2009, 09:39 AM
lol a vibe? why not just buy the fucking matrix it shares almost everything with?

exitspeed
04-27-2009, 09:56 AM
lol a vibe? why not just buy the fucking matrix it shares almost everything with?

Because my grandfather worked for GM for 30 years and wanted to buy a GM vehicle. Looking at all their needs the HHR and Vibe were the best fit. I steered them towards the Vibe because the visibility is pretty restricted in the HHR and the shifter in the Vibe is not in the center between the seats buy up higher in the center console. It's easier for them to see.

But, yes, if he would have wanted to buy a foreign car I would have had them buy a Matrix.

Antihero983
04-27-2009, 09:59 AM
you do understand he pretty much bought a foreign car with GM front and rear bumpers on it right?

I worked for toyota for 2 years btw.

ericcastro
04-27-2009, 10:12 AM
So I shouldnt be holding my breath for them to bring the Fiero back?? :(

SimpleS14
04-27-2009, 10:37 AM
What will happen with the warranties of the cars that remain on the roads?


They are still honored and parts will still be available due to contracts with suppliers.

exitspeed
04-27-2009, 10:48 AM
you do understand he pretty much bought a foreign car with GM front and rear bumpers on it right?

I worked for toyota for 2 years btw.

Oh I absolutely know. That's one of the reason I suggested the car. Because one her gets to buy a "GM" vehicle AND I know it shares most of it's components with the Corolla and Matrix. It was a win win.

ryguy
04-27-2009, 11:00 AM
Now they need to make the G8 the next generation Impala. Also, I'm sure any Pontiac could be serviced under warranty at a Chevy dealership.

JVD
04-27-2009, 11:02 AM
I'm glad they're gone.

They made poor quality/ugly vehicles(save for a few).

Future240
04-27-2009, 11:07 AM
Grand National excluded. everyone wants a GN

Agreed, buick could reap lots of revenue if they released a new GN

exitspeed
04-27-2009, 11:17 AM
Now they need to make the G8 the next generation Impala. Also, I'm sure any Pontiac could be serviced under warranty at a Chevy dealership.

I TOTALLY AGREE! I chopped this up last week to see what the G8 would look like with a Chevy from end.

(Yes these are poorly done, but you get the idea)
Malibu style front (which is likely)
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8945/impalag8copy.jpg

Camaro front. lol
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8117/camarog8copy.jpg

ryguy
04-27-2009, 11:22 AM
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8945/impalag8copy.jpg


I really like how this looks. Granted, not as much as the G8 as it is now, but I think this would actually appeal to a much wider audience than the aggressive styling of the G8.

Phlip
04-27-2009, 11:22 AM
Now they need to make the G8 the next generation Impala. Also, I'm sure any Pontiac could be serviced under warranty at a Chevy dealership.

No, they should make it the Grand National in one trim level, and then make a BRUTE of it and call that one the GNX.

ryguy
04-27-2009, 11:29 AM
No, they should make it the Grand National in one trim level, and then make a BRUTE of it and call that one the GNX.

No no no, you can't have the GNX being a sedan! The G8 needs to be the Impala and GM should bring back the Holden Monaro platform to be the GNX. I totally believe that the GTO would have sold better if it had had any other name.

Phlip
04-27-2009, 11:31 AM
No no no, you can't have the GNX being a sedan! The G8 needs to be the Impala and the next gen Holden Monaro platform needs to be the GNX. I totally believe that the GTO would have sold better if it had had any other name.

Good point, you got me there.

soreballz
04-27-2009, 03:43 PM
Now they need to make the G8 the next generation Impala.
This x10000.

I drove a G8 a few months back. AWESOME car.


Oh, don't stress too much about the Solstice... The Saturn Sky is the same damn thing. lol

exitspeed
04-27-2009, 04:11 PM
This x10000.

I drove a G8 a few months back. AWESOME car.


Oh, don't stress too much about the Solstice... The Saturn Sky is the same damn thing. lol

Which will be gone by the end of the year also. lol

CusCo_S14
04-27-2009, 04:17 PM
So I shouldnt be holding my breath for them to bring the Fiero back?? :(

the fiero was the sh*t, my brother had one and thing was quick,but when ur 8 everything seems quick. and my friends bro_in_law makes them into either ferrari or lambos, i think both.

lflkajfj12123
04-27-2009, 04:50 PM
goodnight sweet prince

i will not miss you HAH

soreballz
04-27-2009, 06:00 PM
Look on the bright side... LIQUIDATION! lol

SimpleS14
04-27-2009, 06:39 PM
The G8 is already sold overseas as the Chevy Lumina and Caprice (longer wheelbase, different front end).

Because this car is imported, there is a limitation to how many they can import due to agreements with the UAW. Until they retool their plants to build this car, don't expect it to replace the Impala. However, nothing is stopping it from coming over as a Lumina.

Here it is as the Chevy Lumina:
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/12/chevyluminass.jpg

Chevy Caprice...
http://www.motorauthority.com/content/thumbs/2/0/2009_chevrolet_caprice_middle_east_001-0402-950x650.jpg


Look on the bright side... LIQUIDATION! lol

I know! GM already announced "heavy" incentives on the G8 because its being phased out this year.

Pontiac G8 production to cease this year with no Pontiac models to survive beyond 2010 (http://www.leftlanenews.com/pontiac-g8-production-to-cease-this-year-with-no-pontiac-models-to-survive-beyond-2010.html)


The G8 GXP looks oh so tempting :2f2f:

Phlip
04-27-2009, 06:53 PM
If I get it as a Caprice, can I raise it 10" and put 28" Chrome wheels on it?

If not, it is not a real Caprice

RiversideS13
04-27-2009, 06:55 PM
it is really hard for me to believe buick is more profitable than pontiac, they should kill buick instead

Walperstyle
04-27-2009, 06:55 PM
I am so pissed right now. GMs stock is up 20% TODAY and I was wanting to invest in them before they started cutting brands.

I have $5000 ready to throw in, and I probably missed my largest single day gain. Falk!

BustedS13
04-27-2009, 06:57 PM
BFD

we have too many brands anyway. oh no, the G8. i'm really going to miss that sedan.
Solstice was cool though. Sky was fugly.

If I get it as a Caprice, can I raise it 10" and put 28" Chrome wheels on it?

If not, it is not a real Caprice

valid

JVD
04-27-2009, 08:26 PM
goodnight sweet prince

i will not miss you HAH

http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/05.trucks.worst.residual.value/05.pontiac.aztek.500.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/05.least.expensive.vehicles/05.pontiac.sunfire.500.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/White_Pontiac_Grand_Prix.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/06.best.cars.for.seniors/06.pontiac.montana.500.jpg

http://www.gmphotostore.com/images/53218379_pr.jpg

http://www.automedia.com/NewCarBuyersGuide/photos/2005/Pontiac/Grand%20Am/Coupe/2005_Pontiac_GrandAm_ext_1.jpg

*sniff sniff*

SimpleS14
04-27-2009, 08:26 PM
I am so pissed right now. GMs stock is up 20% TODAY and I was wanting to invest in them before they started cutting brands.

I have $5000 ready to throw in, and I probably missed my largest single day gain. Falk!

You should be more pissed that you missed out on Ford when it was $1.65 in March...

now its $5.11.....

ronmcdon
04-27-2009, 08:44 PM
$5 is still a relative bargain

illvialuver
04-27-2009, 08:55 PM
I always thought it was kinda dumb.
we all knew and saw the similarities in the camaro-firebird and the lemans/ gto and the chevelle its all the same. it wold be like nissan have 6 different brands that made the same shit.

illvialuver
04-27-2009, 08:56 PM
Does JVD really miss the Aztek? All the cars that he posted pictures of made me throw up in my mouth.

Gnnr
04-27-2009, 09:21 PM
Wow, this news is totally unexpected. They need to sell Saab and Hummer already and they need to get a better marketing department for Saturn. GMC should be only commercial and fleet vehicles. Buick needs to jump on the bringaretrocarback bandwagon and make a Grand National.

JVD
04-27-2009, 09:29 PM
Does JVD really miss the Aztek? All the cars that he posted pictures of made me throw up in my mouth.
That's the point. Every car Pontiac designs makes me throw up in my mouth.

It blows my mind that people say they'll miss the company. They made some of the most hideous designs ever.

Even the Solstice was fucking hideous.

They were committed to that grill design tho.... Hahhaa.

ESmorz
04-27-2009, 09:30 PM
Does JVD really miss the Aztek? All the cars that he posted pictures of made me throw up in my mouth.

Does the white President paint himself with a sharpie every morning?

:ugh:

VROOOM
04-27-2009, 09:38 PM
That's the point. Every car Pontiac designs makes me throw up in my mouth.

It blows my mind that people say they'll miss the company. They made some of the most hideous designs ever.

Even the Solstice was fucking hideous.

They were committed to that grill design tho.... Hahhaa.

have you seen some off the cars they built in the 60's??

JVD
04-27-2009, 09:46 PM
have you seen some off the cars they built in the 60's??
Yes, but when they made total pieces of shit for the past 20+ years this was inevitable.

We're not talking about the 60s. They're out of business now... because of their recent cars.

MikeisNissan
04-27-2009, 09:47 PM
Solstice and G8 GXP were such badass cars!

exitspeed
04-28-2009, 07:04 AM
http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/05.trucks.worst.residual.value/05.pontiac.aztek.500.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/05.least.expensive.vehicles/05.pontiac.sunfire.500.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/White_Pontiac_Grand_Prix.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/06.best.cars.for.seniors/06.pontiac.montana.500.jpg

http://www.gmphotostore.com/images/53218379_pr.jpg

http://www.automedia.com/NewCarBuyersGuide/photos/2005/Pontiac/Grand%20Am/Coupe/2005_Pontiac_GrandAm_ext_1.jpg

*sniff sniff*

I agree. Decades of garbage is what put GM in this position. It's just unfortunate that when they finally figure it out with the G8 and Sostice it's too late.

6.2-liter, 402-horsepower LS3 V-8 and it comes in a 6 speed.
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2009_pontiac_g8_gxp_red.jpg

And the Solstice GXP Coupe. 300hp Turbo 4, RWD, 6 speed, dead sexy. Come on what more can you ask for? This is what we wish the 240 can be.
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2009_pontiac_solstice_coupe.jpg

silviaguy240
04-28-2009, 09:14 AM
And the Solstice GXP Coupe. 300hp Turbo 4, RWD, 6 speed, dead sexy. Come on what more can you ask for? This is what we wish the 240 can be.
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2009_pontiac_solstice_coupe.jpg

yea, but its still $33,000. and all the gxp/redlines are 260hp, 5spds. again might i add, boosting 18lbs stock on a small ass turbo. any serious power upgrade is atleast a few grand for a new turbo, ecu, install.....oh and i just went through the options, air conditioning is a $960 OPTION, its not standard.

exitspeed
04-28-2009, 09:28 AM
^
Your point? Shit looks better then the Miatia and performs (GXP version) better then one and costs the same amount.

Just saying give credit where credit is due. GM has never tried to actually compete with the Miata and for it's first attempt did a stellar job.

kandyflip445
04-28-2009, 09:50 AM
Not down (well, up to you) here, dude. Black people buy the Cadillacs, and old gray-haired white people buy Buicks.

Always been Cadillacs. At least in KS too.

I just thought old ass people drove Buicks.

silviaguy240
04-28-2009, 09:51 AM
miata is still ~ 5,000 cheaper with similar options, yea the power isnt there. but its just that the price in my opinion is too high for a car thats only been around for a few years. the miata is tried and true, and you can get a basic sports car for ~22,000.

the non gxp/redline solstice and sky's are DOGS. i swear my 280z is just as quick. a 165hp 3200lb car isnt really sporty in my eyes. a miata is ~2,500lbs with the same power.

a base solstice and sky are ~25,000, and they just dont sell. i swear in the past 9 months, the saturn dealer i work at, which is one of the largest in the area, we have sold maybe 5 sky's. and maybe 10 in the past year. and do i ever see any of them on the road? no, solstices included.

they're just not that comfortable, not very ergonomic, they handle ok and the turbo models have ok power.

the sky has some more standard stuff than the solstice, but damn for the solstice, ac, power windows and locks arent standard on a $25,000 car in 2009?

JVD
04-28-2009, 10:06 AM
yea, but its still $33,000. and all the gxp/redlines are 260hp, 5spds. again might i add, boosting 18lbs stock on a small ass turbo. any serious power upgrade is atleast a few grand for a new turbo, ecu, install.....oh and i just went through the options, air conditioning is a $960 OPTION, its not standard.
$33k?!

Oh god. Isn't that like 350/370Z territory?

I'm sorry, but the Solstice doesn't look good. I've seen tons of them on the road. They look so weak. Not surprisingly, it's mostly middle aged women I see driving them.

There's a million other cars I'd rather be driving than that thing.

VROOOM
04-28-2009, 10:20 AM
yea, but its still $33,000. and all the gxp/redlines are 260hp, 5spds. again might i add, boosting 18lbs stock on a small ass turbo. any serious power upgrade is atleast a few grand for a new turbo, ecu, install.....oh and i just went through the options, air conditioning is a $960 OPTION, its not standard.

the LNF is a very easy engine to modify. the Cobalt SS is getting 300whp with just a tune. with a turbo upgrade they are over 400whp.

GM stage kit makes 290hp and 340lb/ft it costs $550 and you still retain your warranty.
Solstice HHR Stage Kit 19212670 - Crate Engine Depot (http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/Solstice-HHR-Stage-Kit-19212670-P2292C179.aspx)

captainfalco
04-28-2009, 11:20 AM
The Solstice looks like ass, but the Sky looks 10x better.
This kit looks pretty enticing for the money, and it even comes with a GM performance sticker!
the LNF is a very easy engine to modify. the Cobalt SS is getting 300whp with just a tune. with a turbo upgrade they are over 400whp.

GM stage kit makes 290hp and 340lb/ft it costs $550 and you still retain your warranty.
Solstice HHR Stage Kit 19212670 - Crate Engine Depot (http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/Solstice-HHR-Stage-Kit-19212670-P2292C179.aspx)

Enna
04-28-2009, 11:34 AM
GM would be smart to axe out buick and GMC as well. They could keep some of the buick vehicles as chevy's and caddy's. That way its just two companies, not spreading themselves thin. Granted yes 4 is less than the 8 or so they have now, but still 2 is a far easier thing to manage. Besides it might get them to drop some of the crap they make now anyways.

ronmcdon
04-28-2009, 12:40 PM
GMC is actually one of the few gm brands that are profitable.
it's sorta like gm's premium truck brand.
axing gm trucks suv's aren't going to guarantee buyers will flock to chevy.

buick is profitable overseas in China (of all places) strangely enough.
It would be nice to see it get axed nonetheless.

Pontiac's removal isn't unreasonable.
The brand itself has always been nothing more than a gaudy attempt at badge engineering.
Most of the nicer cars it had was shared with other marques (firebired, solstice), or taken from Holden (gto, g8).
They can just as easily be integrated into other marques.
imo, the G8 can & would make a great premium model Chevy.

Disbanding Holden, Corvette, & Cadillac would have been far more tragic.

kingkilburn
04-28-2009, 01:07 PM
Why can't they just combine Pontiac and Chevy? Use the Pontiac badge as the new SS.

Phlip
04-28-2009, 01:28 PM
I present to you, the Pontiac T1000:

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/3303/3781/8256890001_large.jpg

http://faroviejo.com.mx/weblog/modules/wordpress/wp-photos/20070830-164424-2.jpg

http://imcdb.org/images/076/436.jpg

... there is no amount of G8 or Solstice to make up for that, rot in pieces, Pontiac.

TeamFRAT
04-28-2009, 01:44 PM
Just got word here this morning that may 11th is the day the 1800 some odd dealerships will be called and terminated. I work for gmc pontiac here in mn. got my fingers crossed...

ryguy
04-28-2009, 02:00 PM
GM would be smart to axe out buick and GMC as well. They could keep some of the buick vehicles as chevy's and caddy's. That way its just two companies, not spreading themselves thin. Granted yes 4 is less than the 8 or so they have now, but still 2 is a far easier thing to manage. Besides it might get them to drop some of the crap they make now anyways.

WAKE UP MCFLY! Have you not been following the conversation? Buick is China's #1 brand and GMC sells a lot of commercial vehicles. I understand the Asian automakers all have 2 divisions, but you need to remember that GM is still the world's largest automaker.

Antihero983
04-28-2009, 04:47 PM
they could actually ditch GMC, because Chevy is just as profitable with fleet vehicles. hell even the dealership i work at uses a Chevy as its parts delivery van!

SimpleS14
04-28-2009, 04:53 PM
As mentioned before, GMC is profitable (i.e. brings in ca$h).....so don't expect it to go anywhere. Also, there are people out there they will buy a GMC because it's not a Chevy...

Gnnr
04-28-2009, 09:01 PM
Exactly,

so as I was saying

1. Make GMC a commercial/fleet line only brand (which is whats making them the money).

2. Axe Buick in America, leave it only in China.

3. Have Caddy as the luxury brand and Chevy as the regular brand. Shit, its a working formula. Nissan/Infiniti, Toyota/Lexus, VW/Audi, Honda/Acura, etc.

4. Sell Saab and Hummer. Done.

91tofordee
04-28-2009, 09:05 PM
how is buick still floating around? although they come out with new vehicles, i swear the newest buick i see in the streets around here are from 2003.

yeah, buick is the number 1 luxury car.

TheWolf
04-28-2009, 11:03 PM
The problem with the miata/soltice/sky comparison. Is I fit into a miata. I would need to chop 4" off my knee's to fit into a soltice/sky and it's a bigger car. The Caprice and lumina actually look nice. If they really couldn't bring them in due to UAW issues. Then they deserve to die. UAW doesn't understand they're killing the goose that lays golden eggs.

janders211
04-29-2009, 12:02 PM
we need to attack the chinese...wtf is wrong with them...buicks? they need to go back to 'real' communism.

Sarra
04-29-2009, 12:02 PM
:bash: Fuck. Now it's going to be harder to get Gen 5 M90's off GTP's.

VROOOM
04-29-2009, 12:21 PM
:bash: Fuck. Now it's going to be harder to get Gen 5 M90's off GTP's.

i dont think any new Pontiac even uses the supercharger any more. top of the line Grand Prix's have V8's. there will still be the same amount around.

Sarra
04-29-2009, 10:57 PM
i dont think any new Pontiac even uses the supercharger any more. top of the line Grand Prix's have V8's. there will still be the same amount around.

Yeah, I wasn't being really serious, but still... I'm still going to miss them.

You're right, the 2008 Grand Prix was offered with a V6 and a V8, no supercharged V6 like years past. Though, the 2004-2007 GTP's used the Gen 5 so they're around...