Overheating.

[Deftec]

Setup:
Koyo Rad
FAL pushers.

Issue:
I had the fans running off a thermistor, to a fuse, to a relay(40amp). The relay supplied power to the fans. I kept burning the relay up and the fans would not get power. So I added another relay, and put each fan motor on a separate relay. Today it burned either the relays up, or the motor fans.

I can't seem to keep the car from overheating at all with this setup, and I didn't have room for the pullers unless I switch to a different brand. Also considering getting a vented hood.

The radiator cap vents when the car is about 195-200 degrees.

Just seeing if anyone has any other suggestions to fix the issue without having to switch my fans out.

[ryguy]

If you're overheating just daily driving, especially when you're not stuck in traffic, the radiator or fans arent your issue. You probably have air in the system.

[jarober]

Agreed. Get a coolant bleed kit. There is also a write up on changing a radiator and tells how to get the air out. Running it while parked on an uphill slope or jacked up in the front will allow the air to escape. Take off the rad cap and run it with the heat on high and this will allow the bubbles to work their way out.

[ryguy]

Running it while parked on an uphill slope or jacked up in the front will allow the air to escape. Take off the rad cap and run it with the heat on high and this will allow the bubbles to work their way out.

This should fix your problem.

[DALAZ_68]

Agreed. Get a coolant bleed kit. There is also a write up on changing a radiator and tells how to get the air out. Running it while parked on an uphill slope or jacked up in the front will allow the air to escape. Take off the rad cap and run it with the heat on high and this will allow the bubbles to work their way out. this wrks only if done right....somehow people still fuck it up lol

[w0nderbr3ad]

Coolant swirl tank ftw. I've always had heating problems with my ka whenever I change out coolant or doing engine work. Now its just a cool 83-86*C.

[NiSilS14]

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/cars-trucks/6530-chevy-mote-carlo-1a.jpg

Best $30 I've ever spent, makes coolant flushing so easy.

[GSXRJJordan]

It's certainly possible that you have air in your system - I just jack up the front of the car, turn the heater on, and open the rad cap and bleeder bolt until solid water comes out (top off the radiator also).

Tell me about your electrical setup - for OEM-style you should have a fused +12V source going to the '87' pin and the '85' pin, the fan's power lead coming to the '30' pin, and a ground wire connected to the '86' pin and your thermistor or a switch (the switch or thermistor will provide ground for the relay). For two fans, use two relays, each fused separately if you want, connected to the same switched ground.

If you're using 40A relays, you will not burn them up.

[Deftec]

Yes, that is my setup. I can get a wire specific diagram if needed...but I'm almost 100% sure it's wired like that. The thermistor supplies ground...fuse before relays(they share the same ignition wire, have two separate constant power wires) and run each motor individually.

[GSXRJJordan]

Yes, that is my setup. I can get a wire specific diagram if needed...but I'm almost 100% sure it's wired like that. The thermistor supplies ground...fuse before relays(they share the same ignition wire, have two separate constant power wires) and run each motor individually.

When you say they "share the same ignition wire", what do you mean? For something with that much of a load, you need to using some high quality 14ga wire or larger for each relay. If your battery is still in the engine bay, run two ring terminals up to the positive terminal, if not, I'd run the two ring terminals off the alternators +12V post.

[JeremyR]

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/cars-trucks/6530-chevy-mote-carlo-1a.jpg

Best $30 I've ever spent, makes coolant flushing so easy.



what is this??
where can i get it?
got any links?

[GSXRJJordan]

what is this??
where can i get it?
got any links?

Harbor Freight, I believe, has these - but I can't find them on the web site for some reason.

I know Sears also has them, but they'll be more money.

[s13tilldeath*]

They are right^^^ you probally have air in your system.

I dont really have anything to add i would say they pretty much coverd it.

Oh i would take your thermostat out. Bitch is worthless, my car was allways overheating ripped the thermo out and ran fine.

[GSXRJJordan]

...Oh i would take your thermostat out. Bitch is worthless, my car was allways overheating ripped the thermo out and ran fine.

For people that only drive in fair weather, or have track-only cars, that's an option - for people that live in colder climates, removing the thermostat can be seriously nasty. The engine needs to stay warm to be a peak efficiency, and dropping the coolant temp much below 180* is all bad news.

If you're having problems getting the coolant system bled properly, and think it's the thermostat, you can put it in a pan of boiling water and see if it opens, and/or just replace it. If its good, and you're still having problems with overheating, it's because you've got air behind the thermostat - keep bleeding the system as described above!

[s13tilldeath*]

GSXRJJORDAN statment is true didnt really think abouth that.

I live in va doesnt really get that cold here.

[JeremyR]

coolant bleed kit

Lisle LIS24610 Spill Free Radiator Funnel Kit w/Extra Adapter | Cooling System Service (http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_12749_36/lisle_lis24610_spill_free_radiator_funnel_kit_wext .html)

[Deftec]

I have good wiring ran to all the relays, and I believe they are 12 gauge.

By they share an ignition, I mean that both relays receive ignition power, but also have a constant 12v. (4 plug....12v, ignition, ground, output power to fans). I'll try getting the car on stands and see if i can get it to puke all the air out itself...I just don't see why the fans would over load the relays from running too long.

[ryguy]

Trust me, it's not the fans. The fan only serves a purpose when the car isn't moving. A moving car moves air through the radiator faster than any fan can. Bleed the system.

[johngriff]

Are you switching hot, or on the ground?

Switch on the ground, switch on the ground.

[GSXRJJordan]

^^^ John Griff in da houssssssssssssssssse!!!!

I think he said his wiring was as I described - if that's the case, he's good :)

Still sounds like air in the system. Does it overheat around town, or on the freeway?

[NiSilS14]

what is this??
where can i get it?
got any links?


It's a coolant funnel, you use to various fittings so it goes on top of your radiator like a radiator cap, put the big funnel on, pour coolant until it's half full, start car, idle and turn heat to full blast, let it warm up, watch the bubbles till they're gone. voila! fully bled. I bought mine off a tool truck that comes by my work.
edit: lol looks you got it.

[Deftec]

Yes, I'm switching off the ground. I'll try jacking the front of the car up and bleeding it as so as soon as I get the wheels back on it.

Do you really think that would cause the relays to burn up though(car not cooling, fans running too long?) The car ran fine for about 2 weeks with this setup since I changed it to 2 relays, and it just stopped the other day when I posted this.

[Deftec]

Update, took the car out, ran fine for a while, got it home and parked it, antifreeze starts blowing everywhere. The relays burned up again. I made 100% sure all air/etc was out of it. So the only option I can really do now is to take the thermostat out and see what it'll do.

[GSXRJJordan]

Do you really think that would cause the relays to burn up though(car not cooling, fans running too long?) The car ran fine for about 2 weeks with this setup since I changed it to 2 relays, and it just stopped the other day when I posted this.

Nope, if the relays are truly bad (you test them by putting 12V current on one side of the coil and ground on the other - coil is 85 and 86 pins - and seeing if it 'clicks'), it's because you're passing too much current though them, or you've got it wired up wrong (fan power through the coil instead of the high-current circuit - 30 and 87 pins). I'd check all your crimps, as well as your ground (ground to the frame rail, or sheet metal welded to the frame rail - most of the car is simply glued together and does not handle high current well.

Update, took the car out, ran fine for a while, got it home and parked it, antifreeze starts blowing everywhere. The relays burned up again. I made 100% sure all air/etc was out of it. So the only option I can really do now is to take the thermostat out and see what it'll do.

If the thermostat wasn't opening, the radiator (and the water inside of it) wouldn't get hot, your engine would just melt itself to hell. You need to re-bleed the system, with the front elevated, heater on, until you get a solid stream of coolant coming out of the bleeder port - then drive the car, observe, and repeat.

[Deftec]

Nope, if the relays are truly bad (you test them by putting 12V current on one side of the coil and ground on the other - coil is 85 and 86 pins - and seeing if it 'clicks'), it's because you're passing too much current though them, or you've got it wired up wrong (fan power through the coil instead of the high-current circuit - 30 and 87 pins). I'd check all your crimps, as well as your ground (ground to the frame rail, or sheet metal welded to the frame rail - most of the car is simply glued together and does not handle high current well.



If the thermostat wasn't opening, the radiator (and the water inside of it) wouldn't get hot, your engine would just melt itself to hell. You need to re-bleed the system, with the front elevated, heater on, until you get a solid stream of coolant coming out of the bleeder port - then drive the car, observe, and repeat.


I did bleed it with it elevated and the heater on.

Crimps and all connections/etc are good...but how could I regulate the current being drawn from them? They run fine, but if the fans run for too long it burns the relays up. I also am led to believe I need a higher PSI radiator cap, I put a new one on, and when the car gets warm, half throttle it vents slightly, so I'm going to try and up it to a 15psi.

[GSXRJJordan]

I did bleed it with it elevated and the heater on.

Crimps and all connections/etc are good...but how could I regulate the current being drawn from them? They run fine, but if the fans run for too long it burns the relays up. I also am led to believe I need a higher PSI radiator cap, I put a new one on, and when the car gets warm, half throttle it vents slightly, so I'm going to try and up it to a 15psi.

I run a 1.3 bar cap, so 15psi is definitely fine.

You can't regulate the current going through each relay using the relays, you have to change how the load is applied - if you're sure that the wires are going to the correct pins on the relay (which I'm not), you need to use relays rated for the huge current you're pulling.

[S14DB]

Just get a Z32 Cap from the parts store.

[Deftec]

I run a 1.3 bar cap, so 15psi is definitely fine.

You can't regulate the current going through each relay using the relays, you have to change how the load is applied - if you're sure that the wires are going to the correct pins on the relay (which I'm not), you need to use relays rated for the huge current you're pulling.

I'll get the relay off tomorrow and write out exactly what goes where.

[flip3d]

wow, i usually fill till the rad is full then squeeze the hose until the coolant goes down and add more, repeat, etc.