SR20DET Build by shop GONE BAD!!!

[KenSR20]

Hello,

Here is my situation. I paid TONS of money to get my SR20DET built for my S13. The motor had new pistons, rods, cams, springs, retainers, arm stoppers, cam gears etc.. The motor was built and cranked up in December of 08, for the first time.

While breaking in the car I kept the motor under 3500 RPMS untill 1,200 miles. Of course during the first 1,200 miles I changed the oil at like 500 miles then again at 1,000. I didn't boost past 8 psi till I put the wideband on it. Which was the day that it died.

That day I took it up to 15 psi early afternoon, really nice pull for a untunned motor with a 2871r .86. That night, not had not played with it much more since, it broke down. The HKS cam gear bolt fell off and broke the timing chain.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b289/KenSR20/noO.jpg

Not even sure what damage has occurred between the piston and valves hitting each other I have not taken the head off yet to check. The timing chain, tensioner, water pump, and other small stuff were also new OEM nissian parts.

The shop has been giving me different stories on if the bolts were torqued down. First story was that they couldn't find torque specs on it and so they were just tightened. 2nd story they were torqued down and its not their fault. All said and done with they will not take responsibility for their screw up. They blame it on the cam gear being a part failure. They even tried to tell me that it broke in the motor wrong and it's my fault.

Anyone with any advise on how I could get this resolved. I know shops have insurance companies for this type of situation. But, how do I get their insurance company involved to make the decision, instead of them just saying NO? They offered to come pick it up. (They are almost 200 miles away from my new location now) I know they would just tear it down and say its my fault and send me a huge bill again. I wouldn't be there to see anything going on.

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh: :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[LA_phantom_240]

Their fault. End of story.

[bbturbo87]

those kind of shops never take responsibility for their screw ups. sounds like there aint much to do.. you can either try to take them to court but there is no strong proof on either side to make a good case.. or you can just get some big homies and try to get your money back by force.

[blu808]

Their fault without a doubt. But technically it is a race engine, and they will use that excuse to get out of any liability.

Sucks man.

[undesiredshoe]

Thats why i choose to do everything myself...so if anything goes wrong, ill be the one to blame.

[boosteds14]

I personally think that if the bolt was not torqued down properly, it would have fallen off before the 1200miles you put on it. Shit happens man, i hope that all works out for you. But I think that its not the shop to blame or you.

[KenSR20]

Yeah.. It's complicated.. All i know for as much money as I paid them I could have bought a RB26DETT and put it in there. =( Now im broke no job and no car. Gotta love it.

[SoguRacing]

I think it's their fault. that kind of shit happens when things aren't torqued down to specs. their fault. since you have no job then you'll have time for small claims court.

[Firestorm]

I personally think that if the bolt was not torqued down properly, it would have fallen off before the 1200miles you put on it. Shit happens man, i hope that all works out for you. But I think that its not the shop to blame or you.

i can't quite agree with you on that. he said he never revved it past 3500 rpm until it was broken in, so maybe the bolt got loose due to the vibrations in upper RPMs.

either way, those are things that shouldn't happen and the OP couldn't have known that the shop didn't torque it down to spec. if it were you you wouldn't crack open a recently built engine to check all bolts, would you?

[boosteds14]

i can't quite agree with you on that. he said he never revved it past 3500 rpm until it was broken in, so maybe the bolt got loose due to the vibrations in upper RPMs.

either way, those are things that shouldn't happen and the OP couldn't have known that the shop didn't torque it down to spec. if it were you you wouldn't crack open a recently built engine to check all bolts, would you?

oh I agree with you on that, however it does seem like a complicated issue. there is alot "Maybes" about this event which cant actually prove it was the shops fault. But at the same time, I am in no way trying to take a side with either the owner of the motor or the shop that built the motor. I am just looking at it in a logistical way. Even if the cams adjustment screw was "tightened" down and not torqued down, with the crush washer on it, it would lock down. I can only see it loosening up if it was "hand tightened" down and if it was, I see it backing out sooner than 1200miles.

I do hope that the shop helps out resolving the issue. Maybe free labor and customer pays for the parts. I see that being a fair compromise between both parties since it is very hard to prove this was not tightened properly and it happened after the claimed "break-in" period. Unless the shop takes full blame and takes care of the matter in their own hands.

please keep us updated in this thread on what actually happens.

[KenSR20]

Yes I will keep everyone posted on what happens. I am having a Nissan tech look at it and write up a formal statement and signed by him stating that it was the shops fault for not tightening down properly and seeing if they will turn it over to their insurance company on that note. If not it will go to court and be a long process.

I hate to do it to them, but I already got ripped off once by another shop, that tore my engine down, and went out of business. I had parts stolen from me, and had to pick my engine up in pieces to take somewhere else. So, I paid dearly already to get it fixed after that.

I have more time then money so we shall see. Thanks for all the input it's good to see someone that isnt involved look at it and what they think of the situation.

[steve shadows]

What is a Nissan Tech?

I hear this from a lot of people " I am a nissan tech" and then they have nothing to back it up...just saying he better have an MS in Engineering or SAE.

Anyways this looks like they forgot something, or overlooked tightening something down and just were careless.

They were probably in a rush to get it out of the shop and did not bolt everything down and cross their t's and dot their i's unfortunately this happens a lot in this industry.

People get swept up in big dreams and branding and name / cars parked out front of shop without really evaluating if the the shop is really a good place to build a relationship with.

Just because a shop sponsors a drift car or has been seen in a magazine is not a good reason to give them free access to your bank account. I see this time and time again with cars that I end up re-tuning or re-building because XYZ BIG NAME SHOP butchered the crap out of the build or were careless.

[KenSR20]

The name of the place is Nisstech NissTech Imports Inc. (http://www.nisstech.com/) They used to work for Nissan dealership a long time ago and moved on to having their own place. (Guess that is what a Nissan Tech is) There is a Carolina Z Car Club here locally that everyone says they are good people that back up their work. So, once this blows over I think I will take the engine out and take it to them to rebuild.

[HungryHank]

I think it's their fault. that kind of shit happens when things aren't torqued down to specs. their fault. since you have no job then you'll have time for small claims court.

small claims that shit ASAP dawg

[Bubbles]

First story was that they couldn't find torque specs on it and so they were just tightened.


Take away the tool set of whoever said that.

[S13shaka]

sounds like the OP got quad pwnted

[Dirty Habit]

Sorry to hear the story. It sucks when people do not take responsibility for their actions.

On another note:
If you have been stiffed this many times on the engine build, why not do it yourself? With the money you are spending to have this thing built again and again, you probably could have built it yourself, gained some knowledge and had more than enough left over for some more parts for your car. Its your money, and time, but at this point you are just wasting both.

[jdizzy204]

hey ken its jamel. are u still in wilmington? im sorry to hear that happened man, i know ss motorsports screwed a lot of ppl over including me.

[MandTPhotography]

Was this SS Motorsports?

I'm in Wilmington and used to work for NS, PM me with details if it isn't SS.

[KenSR20]

hey ken its jamel. are u still in wilmington? im sorry to hear that happened man, i know ss motorsports screwed a lot of ppl over including me.

Yeah that was a freakin mess.. my head was torn down and left on a bench for like a year, found my block at a machine shop that he owed a bunch of money, cracked bearing beam, and a rusted crank not even covered was what I took out of that place as my engine. Basically had to get a used head assembled, bearing beam, and upper/lower oil pan and buy the aftermarket stuff I already had for it again. I couldn't believe it..


Then this happened after all that mess.. stupid s13 is costin me a freaken fortune. I moved back to Charlotte end of the summer last year. I had to transfer to UNCC to finish up and take a job that later got laid off at..

When it rains it pours :-/ I talked to Shane before I moved back he said he blew up his KA like the day after he built it or something? lol Hows everything in Wilmington going?

[KenSR20]

Sorry to hear the story. It sucks when people do not take responsibility for their actions.

On another note:
If you have been stiffed this many times on the engine build, why not do it yourself? With the money you are spending to have this thing built again and again, you probably could have built it yourself, gained some knowledge and had more than enough left over for some more parts for your car. Its your money, and time, but at this point you are just wasting both.

Yeah.. I have been thinking about it a lot believe me. I was going to build it but it was in pieces when I took it out of the 1st shop, SS Motorsports. At that point I should have done it, but wasnt sure about all the missing pieces and stuff. Didn't think it would be a good situation for my first build on a 400hp setup. If something soon doesn't happen as far as someone giving me money to fix all damage then, once working, I might consider doing it. I will have to get paid through court then.. I have taken out engines multiple time but never took a apart a head or done anything bottom end measuring bearings etc..

[98s14inaz]

Their fault. End of story.Technically it is. Unfortunately these shops will try to get out of it for the reasons people already listed in this thread. I've had my own bad experience with a specific shop that will remain nameless and I feel your pain, outrage, and disappointment. Mine died at 1000 miles while breaking it in. It pisses me off how a shop will build you a motor and if it stays together they take credit for it and then if it falls apart they want nothing to do with it.

Possibly get a lawyer and get some legal advice. Also see if you can get a certified nissan mechanic to take a look at it and give you a statement saying that it wasn't put together right.

Good luck.

[fliprayzin240sx]

So wait, car wasnt tuned and you were to break it in, but you hit 8 psi and 15 psi at certain times on an UNTUNED/Barely broken in engine?!?!

Sure the the cam gear thing is their fault, but umm, you aint exactly clean yourself.

[KenSR20]

Uh, I hit 15 once with a wideband.. I have huge injectors and it was running very rich. Worse case it could have started leanin out but when i did boost it was to get on a interstate for like a couple seconds i had the rev limit set to 5,500 so its not like i went past that either way.

[S14TEENZ]

sux..........

[luckvx]

this is why i dont own a 240 no more

[TheWolf]

well... the torque spec on that bolt is like 20ft/lbs. PFT is usually 20ftlbs easily. Tough love. What was the exact bill amount if you don't mind?

Also running a fresh motor untuned no matter how "rich/lean" is dumb. In the future, you may suggest the shop and you should invest in some safety wire. Seems only prudent. Trying to sue the shop should be a last resort. Bargaining with them is probably your only solution. I've seen this happen before when the customer has maxed out all his charge cards and has put every dollar he could borrow into that engine and it blows up. You should always save 25% of the total bill aside for "ooopps". The worse is you'll need a set of valves, a tchain, a headgasket, some safety wire and some time. don't expect the shop to do everything. I'd bring them the engine without accessories, drain the oil, and antifreeze and be with them to disassemble it. Setup a time to go over it. Don't spend your phone call telling them what a nissan expert you are and how you've diagnosed it as this and how they're going to do this this and this for you or else. That's the fast way to get to the NO line.

[KenSR20]

well... the torque spec on that bolt is like 20ft/lbs. PFT is usually 20ftlbs easily. Tough love. What was the exact bill amount if you don't mind?

Also running a fresh motor untuned no matter how "rich/lean" is dumb. In the future, you may suggest the shop and you should invest in some safety wire. Seems only prudent. Trying to sue the shop should be a last resort. Bargaining with them is probably your only solution. I've seen this happen before when the customer has maxed out all his charge cards and has put every dollar he could borrow into that engine and it blows up. You should always save 25% of the total bill aside for "ooopps". The worse is you'll need a set of valves, a tchain, a headgasket, some safety wire and some time. don't expect the shop to do everything. I'd bring them the engine without accessories, drain the oil, and antifreeze and be with them to disassemble it. Setup a time to go over it. Don't spend your phone call telling them what a nissan expert you are and how you've diagnosed it as this and how they're going to do this this and this for you or else. That's the fast way to get to the NO line.

I would have money left over if they didnt quote me 2500-3000 and the actual total was almost 3 times that. I will leave it at that. I've tried to talk to them they deny it being any of their fault. I don't trust them anymore to consider them working on the engine plus they are not local for me anymore.

As far as damage goes there is oil all over the coilpack on one of the cylinders so not sure if that could lead to bottom end damage.. I wont know until I take the head off but I have not started working my new job yet to afford even thinking about doing that.

[KenSR20]

So wait, car wasnt tuned and you were to break it in, but you hit 8 psi and 15 psi at certain times on an UNTUNED/Barely broken in engine?!?!

Sure the the cam gear thing is their fault, but umm, you aint exactly clean yourself.

I didnt go over 3500 RPMS till after 1200 miles.. which is 200-300 miles after the breakin period.

[Slideways^Jordan]

That sux to here man, hope you get everything fixed. Its ashamed how the shop Denys it was their fault and all their BS excuses. This is also one of the reason why i do everything to my s13, if I screw up its my fault and then i learn from it for future reference.

[Flybert]

First thing you need to do is get a job so you can get yourself a lawyer. A bunch of people on a forum can't help you out.

[KenSR20]

First thing you need to do is get a job so you can get yourself a lawyer. A bunch of people on a forum can't help you out.

lol.. I am getting advice. Seeing if people had similar situations. I don't think anyone of the forum can solve the problem. Please don't say anything that isn't helpful.

Thanks

Oh and getting a lawyer over damages that might be in the 1,000 dollar range is kinda stupid.

[TheWolf]

IF someone honestly charged you 9 grand to build an SR then you got fleeced. That's redonkulus. seriously need to get square with them shortly. Oil on a coilpack is caused by leaky valve cover gasket. Not by damage.

[KenSR20]

IF someone honestly charged you 9 grand to build an SR then you got fleeced. That's redonkulus. seriously need to get square with them shortly. Oil on a coilpack is caused by leaky valve cover gasket. Not by damage.

Yeah wasn't much I could do.. Brought them the car and engine in pieces.. They kept sending me invoices for 1k here 1k there.. That's good to hear with the valve cover gasket.. Hopefully its nothing big.

If you really want the break down:

Labor:
89.5hrs $6,712.50

Machine Work/Missing(bolts etc..)
$1,371.99

Total:
$8,086.33

:confused:

For this situation and that kind of money I figure they would be more helpful and they aren't :smash: it's sad really..They did install my front mount and some gauges, and relocate my battery and install bov oh and clean my gas tank!

:eek:

The car sat there so long I already moved back so I was just waiting for them to finish nothing i could do but :bowdown:

I figure with all the extras and machine work 5k worst case.. but oh well I really didn't care I was glad to have the car back till i drove it for 2k miles

I have a feeling at this rate I will learn to rebuild this engine on my own soon :)

[DALAZ_68]

8k huh...i would have just said fuck it and bought a Genesis from Tomei...lol

GL on this man, sounds like a battle

[slw240sx]

did you ever take the valve cover off to re torque those bolts? i have done a few HKS cam gear installs and i always torque them down then inform the customer that they will need to re torque them after a few hundred miles, the gears are part aluminum and part steel its just like re-torquing lug nuts after 250 miles or so on new aluminum wheels. the material compresses just slightly leaving them loose and needing re torqued. also using lock tight on them is not a bad idea.

This is the kinda stuff that can happen it might be their fault, might not be. I know i have honestly come across a similar scenario. A customer engine was brought it, it had been sitting in his garage for years, we put it in after having to prep the car for a few months to do paint and cage and other things. We put the motor in started her up after priming the oil system and it was runining fine then it started knocking and making weird noises, turned out a coil pack cover bolt was dropped in #1 and destroyed the valves and piston. This could have been our fault, or the customers fault, No true way to tell. the way i handled it was to call the customer right then explain the situation then let him know we have already torn the motor down, we will be paying for all machining and labor out of pocket told him if you want to pay for new bearings and rings we would appreciate it, but if not we will be doing it either way. the customer agreed to paying for the parts even though i offered to pay for everything. We rebuilt the motor and keep our reputation up. sure it cost me a few hundred dollars, but it would have cost me more in the long run to turn my back on him. plus its just the right thing to do.

[brndck]

holy shit! 8k? ya a genesis crate engine would've been much better.

or a cosworth build

or ma-motorsports.

or ANYONE reputable.

if a shop quotes you one price, but then keeps changing it that is A GIANT FUCKING RED FLAG!!!

its understandable to have a little bit of wiggle room for extra stuff that comes up, but for 8k you should've had nothing but rainbows and unicorns from that engine.

[MandTPhotography]

True story.


I'm just awaiting the green light so I can put this company on blast if it all doesn't work out.


Hopefully it does though.

[holemilk00]

All you people talking about $8k being way to much are right on one point, but as the other car that was in a million pieces when SS motorsports went out of business, you have to remember, taking your car to another shop when it is in boxes and being hauled on trailers isn't exactly easy. I got turned away from three shops before I got offered a job at NSI and ended up doing my work myself with the help of co-workers for the electrical end. Even still I ended up spending almost $4k to replace parts stolen for my built KA-T and all the parts missing for my car. So I can see where Kendall and I were in a situation where we were going to pay more for work then if we just dropped off a running assembled car. (But still not $8k)


Kendall, I'm really sorry to hear about all this man, I know you've been through hell and back with this car and this is just another bump in the road. As for the shop, do you remember signing anything that released them from liability? Go back to the shop and look around for signs posted in there, unfortunately in NC that's all they have to have is a poster up. If they do or if you signed papers regarding this, then you're wasting your time with SCC. If you didn't sign anything like that or they don't have signs posted then I would start the process. As for SS Motorsports, you know I'm friends with Rob, but even Clint and I have went and file formal complaints and request for hearings against the business. Several people have done it against Rob but they won't get anywhere with that. Pete was a business owner and it wasn't a LLC it was a partnership so his private assets are on the table and he can't put it off forever. But you have to file it against the shop and I know you had several receipts for the things you had there. Also there are plenty of police reports for the things that were stolen and the guys that were in there that had NO business in there.

As for my car, yeah its running finally, yes I did blow it up early one morning after being up all night finishing and tuning it. But it was my fault, the last dyno pull of the night I had some WG flutter, so I went home at 3am on Sunday morning and came back at 9am and pulled the WG off to check it out, found the problem and when I put it back on I didn't hook up the vacuum line, and I popped a piston. But I had it all fixed and rebuilt in a week with the help of Taylor bigger and badder.

If there is ANYTHING I can do to help you out man, let me know, I'm back up in Michigan now but I come down to Charlotte on a regular to see my family so if you want to take this on yourself I'll be more then glad to help out, plus I know plenty of people in the Charlotte area that would be willing to teach you how to do this on your own.


-Shane

[DALAZ_68]

good point, but why not just the route to just sell the torn apart motor and buy another assemble longblock, especially if u have 4k to burn let alone 8k, only problem is being patient...but atleast you would have this horse shit situation...

nonetheless i wish yah luck OP...hope it gets resolved...if things go either way i suggest u post a review on said shop in the review section for businesses...be curteous to ur zilvian family and help someone steer clear from a aheadache

[holemilk00]

good point, but why not just the route to just sell the torn apart motor and buy another assemble longblock, especially if u have 4k to burn let alone 8k, only problem is being patient...but atleast you would have this horse shit situation...

nonetheless i wish yah luck OP...hope it gets resolved...if things go either way i suggest u post a review on said shop in the review section for businesses...be curteous to ur zilvian family and help someone steer clear from a aheadache

Yeah well in my case it wasn't just engine parts missing, for instance, my AEM EMS, WG, Door panels, cluster, brakes, various interior parts, radiator, suspension parts, and more were missing. My car was a damn good chassis so just parting out what was left and starting over wasn't an option for me, plus I still had my engine and head which was where most of my machine work was.

[KenSR20]

All you people talking about $8k being way to much are right on one point, but as the other car that was in a million pieces when SS motorsports went out of business, you have to remember, taking your car to another shop when it is in boxes and being hauled on trailers isn't exactly easy. I got turned away from three shops before I got offered a job at NSI and ended up doing my work myself with the help of co-workers for the electrical end. Even still I ended up spending almost $4k to replace parts stolen for my built KA-T and all the parts missing for my car. So I can see where Kendall and I were in a situation where we were going to pay more for work then if we just dropped off a running assembled car. (But still not $8k)


Kendall, I'm really sorry to hear about all this man, I know you've been through hell and back with this car and this is just another bump in the road. As for the shop, do you remember signing anything that released them from liability? Go back to the shop and look around for signs posted in there, unfortunately in NC that's all they have to have is a poster up. If they do or if you signed papers regarding this, then you're wasting your time with SCC. If you didn't sign anything like that or they don't have signs posted then I would start the process. As for SS Motorsports, you know I'm friends with Rob, but even Clint and I have went and file formal complaints and request for hearings against the business. Several people have done it against Rob but they won't get anywhere with that. Pete was a business owner and it wasn't a LLC it was a partnership so his private assets are on the table and he can't put it off forever. But you have to file it against the shop and I know you had several receipts for the things you had there. Also there are plenty of police reports for the things that were stolen and the guys that were in there that had NO business in there.

As for my car, yeah its running finally, yes I did blow it up early one morning after being up all night finishing and tuning it. But it was my fault, the last dyno pull of the night I had some WG flutter, so I went home at 3am on Sunday morning and came back at 9am and pulled the WG off to check it out, found the problem and when I put it back on I didn't hook up the vacuum line, and I popped a piston. But I had it all fixed and rebuilt in a week with the help of Taylor bigger and badder.

If there is ANYTHING I can do to help you out man, let me know, I'm back up in Michigan now but I come down to Charlotte on a regular to see my family so if you want to take this on yourself I'll be more then glad to help out, plus I know plenty of people in the Charlotte area that would be willing to teach you how to do this on your own.


-Shane

Whats up Shane.. Glade to hear you got it running again. I don't have any intentions of going after Pete in that situation. I am not in Wilmington anymore and its not worth it to be running back in forth for court there if it ever even gets heard. I am more concerned with what recently happened. I did not sign anything nor was there any signs posted. So, I guess I will see what they do once a written statement is sent to them from a mechanic here. If they don't offer anything court it is. I am more than willing to work with them to get it fixed. Just have not got anything from them, cept for "its not our fault."


I could have saved money on buying another block etc.. but it was already bored and ready so I didn't bother. Figure why not just get a used upper/lower oil pan and another bearing beam and be done with it. Anyways, thanks, and I will let you know if i take it on myself.

[KenSR20]

did you ever take the valve cover off to re torque those bolts? i have done a few HKS cam gear installs and i always torque them down then inform the customer that they will need to re torque them after a few hundred miles, the gears are part aluminum and part steel its just like re-torquing lug nuts after 250 miles or so on new aluminum wheels. the material compresses just slightly leaving them loose and needing re torqued. also using lock tight on them is not a bad idea.

This is the kinda stuff that can happen it might be their fault, might not be. I know i have honestly come across a similar scenario. A customer engine was brought it, it had been sitting in his garage for years, we put it in after having to prep the car for a few months to do paint and cage and other things. We put the motor in started her up after priming the oil system and it was runining fine then it started knocking and making weird noises, turned out a coil pack cover bolt was dropped in #1 and destroyed the valves and piston. This could have been our fault, or the customers fault, No true way to tell. the way i handled it was to call the customer right then explain the situation then let him know we have already torn the motor down, we will be paying for all machining and labor out of pocket told him if you want to pay for new bearings and rings we would appreciate it, but if not we will be doing it either way. the customer agreed to paying for the parts even though i offered to pay for everything. We rebuilt the motor and keep our reputation up. sure it cost me a few hundred dollars, but it would have cost me more in the long run to turn my back on him. plus its just the right thing to do.

This was the whole problem.. According to the shop that wasn't stated in the HKS manual, but when I called HKS thats what they said to do. And I told them that it doesn't say that in the papers that comes with the gears. They had nothing to say to that. HKS also said people replace the allen bolts with regular bolts to help prevent this by torquing down easier. Asked them why they don't provide regular bolts with their $350 cam gears they didn't know why. The shop never told me to do it after i got it back nore did the manual say to do it so I didn't think about checking it. It's funny cause when I called them and told them what happened they were like "Oh we couldnt find the torque specs on those bolts so they were just tightened" And couple days later they said "Oh we torqued them not our fault" haha It's just a big mess really.. I just want them to work something out to get it fixed and be done with it. I will post results in thread when I know more..

[KenSR20]

Update:

Did a compression check on the head and everything seems ok. Got the timing chain put back on and runs fine. I got really lucky. Funny thing is there was a random bolt in the bottom of the oil pan, along with the cam gear bolt that has marks on it from breaking the timing chain. BNT Performance refuses to pay the bill to get it fixed.. Will see them in court.. The people that answer the phone and run the place are douche bags don't ever go there. Located in Wilmington, NC

Here is there website Home (http://www.bnt-performance.com/)

Their forums BNT PERFORMANCE - excoboard.com (http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=16807)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b289/KenSR20/CIMG0206.jpg

[holemilk00]

Somehow I knew this name would come up on here. I had been told Shawn was getting his act together over there finally, guess this tells the tale. Good to hear about the motor still being good man.

[240SXREX]

Man what a wild ride.

[Walperstyle]

learn to degree your cams

[napaKAliboog]

That makes me fucken mad. Everything is art and science and when people fuck it up i feel like crushing them. Not being meticulous enough means that they don't understand the art and it makes me want to fucken throw up right now fuck!

[S14_Kouki]

Yeah man that sucks alot. Thats why its good to do stuff your self and yes it is a "race" built engine so you will prob have no luck with getting money back.

[kingkilburn]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l14/el_boxer/mccoyDeadThread.jpg

[midnight zenki]

small claims court

[cc4usmc]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l14/el_boxer/mccoyDeadThread.jpg

For fuck sake. I knew someone bumped this thread from forever ago before I got to the last posts. It's always so stupid noob too.