s15 helical lsd? 180sx lsd? obx lsd? school me on lsds plz

[opponheimer]

What is the advantage of a s15 lsd over an 180sx lsd?

Has anyone had bad experiences with the obx lsd?

I just need something good enough to put power to the ground, i'm not drifting or anything, i'm having traction issues with my 450whp RB obviously.

[godsmack]

If you're having traction issues is it cause of one wheel peel or just overall. With traction issues u usually need to do something about your suspension and not the diff. But lsd is lsd and if you want something to lock up get either a 1 way or a 2 way diff and call it a day. And get better tires.

[clark]

well probably any 180sx Viscous LSD will probably be shot.

i personally have the S15 helical and effing love it. i don't drift either, but having an lsd rocks. so responsive out of turns.

there is that one kid on here who did a review of the obx helical in his s14 and apparently has not had any issues as of yet. it's also basically half the price of an S15 helical.


so did you ever figure out the problem with your engine?

[jr_ss]

If you aren't into drifting, then I would recommend the Helical... Mine works awesome, I can still slide if I want, but I'm not a drifter so it's more of a powerslide. On power coming out of the turns you can feel it transferring power to the outside wheel to propel you out of the turn. It works great for drag too. I don't know you're preferences and you may be the type of person that wants something to lock on decel and accel, then you should go with a 1.5/2 way. It's an OEM piece and damn near unbreakable because of it's design. It has my vote.

[opponheimer]

well probably any 180sx Viscous LSD will probably be shot.

i personally have the S15 helical and effing love it. i don't drift either, but having an lsd rocks. so responsive out of turns.

there is that one kid on here who did a review of the obx helical in his s14 and apparently has not had any issues as of yet. it's also basically half the price of an S15 helical.


so did you ever figure out the problem with your engine?


My ecu was bad, both of the ecus I got, put my AEM EMS on and bam ran fine on the base tune... Got it tuned partially to 20lb now @ 450rwhp
then i had to tear it apart cuz the manifold head flange was warped :(

[ANVIL]

what are you running now? open diff? i also have an rb and do mostly drag racing. anything will be better than an open diff. i have a 180 vlsd waiting to go in my car. i think miles/age doesnt matter its how well its been maintained. fresh fluid changes pretty often should help out with wear/life.

ive read TONS of good things about obx lsds from the honda crowd but nothing really from the 240 community. a lot of haters on it but nobody with any real solid proof or info, at least from what ive read.

[xs240]

hlsd = kick ass for grip/traction out of corners/etc... but be careful of hills/parking lots as it'll send power to the wheel with least traction, hence wheel spin with wheel in air/etc...

drifting = everything else (viscious, lock, etc...). The 1 way may be okay for road racing? 2 way = drift

And in regards to obx, not sure how it compares to nissan's oem hlsd however what i do know aceinhole bought one and changed some internals and it was okay by him... he has a pretty nice race car so if he ever shows up he can put more input into it.

There is of course the quaife HLSD (which is kinda rare) that would be pretty baller, again not sure how it differs to nissan's s15 hlsd... but id love to get my hands on it.

[smelly240]

viscous has nothing to do with oil being changed (its condition) really... its just hte abuse it endured.

the fluid inside the coupling never touches the oil... but it breaksdown/wears out from use.

i mean old oil might make it overheat easier but - if its vlsd and not shimmed... its not gonna lock up.

[rex2sx]

I think my favorit dif is the quaife or torsen diff jsut becuase how they work. These type of differentials transfer the EXACT amount of power lost to the slipping wheel over to the wheel with traction. I have yet to see one for 240s..Actually i think i did i cant remember the site though

Which is different from all the other types. Viscuos CAN be good, but like stated above they are sealed so when they are abused freguently, the oil breaks down and loses its thickness, thus they will stop working. Clutch types are cool except for when you have to replace them. Some last for a long time though. Not sure how long though.

Any you can get clutch types or helicals in 1/1.5 way or 2 way right?

[jr_ss]

what are you running now? open diff? i also have an rb and do mostly drag racing. anything will be better than an open diff. i have a 180 vlsd waiting to go in my car. i think miles/age doesnt matter its how well its been maintained. fresh fluid changes pretty often should help out with wear/life.

Wrong. A VLSD is a sealed unit and the fluid cannot be changed. The Viscous fluid over time and abuse breaks down and the only way to fix it is to replace it with a new unit. You can shim it, but it'll still only last for so long....

I think my favorit dif is the quaife or torsen diff jsut becuase how they work. These type of differentials transfer the EXACT amount of power lost to the slipping wheel over to the wheel with traction. I have yet to see one for 240s..Actually i think i did i cant remember the site though

Any you can get clutch types or helicals in 1/1.5 way or 2 way right?

The S15 Helical is a Torsen diff... Helicals are only made in one design. There is no 1/1.5/2way, they lock by the amount of trq being forced through them.

[opponheimer]

the obx is a helical design:

eBay Motors: OBX LSD HELICAL DIFFERENTIAL 89-98 NISSAN 240SX S13 S14 (item 400041228500 end time Apr-09-09 22:41:08 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-LSD-HELICAL-DIFFERENTIAL-89-98-NISSAN-240SX-S13-S14_W0QQitemZ400041228500QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item400041228500&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A1171|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318)

[greddyguy]

you have a 450hp RB but still a diff noob?

i'd go with a s15 torsen diff, or a nice 2 way like the Tomei or Nismo diff

[rex2sx]

Wrong. A VLSD is a sealed unit and the fluid cannot be changed. The Viscous fluid over time and abuse breaks down and the only way to fix it is to replace it with a new unit. You can shim it, but it'll still only last for so long....



The S15 Helical is a Torsen diff... Helicals are only made in one design. There is no 1/1.5/2way, they lock by the amount of trq being forced through them.

Torsen/helical/quaife..many different names and slightly different design but i like them the best

[HYPNOTIK]

I have the Balltec 1.5 and I love it. That's another option for you. I don't drag though, auto x/touge.

[Psycho 240 Freak]

I have a S15 HLSD and I only have about 300 whp. I can feel my rear end fighting harder for traction now, but with street tires, I'm still spinning a lot. I'm sure at 450 whp, without some really sticky tires. You'll be spinning regardless of what type of LSD you have. BTW, I still like my HLSD due to it's quietness and driving is still the same as an open diff in normal driving conditions. Even in bad weather, the car still drives like stock. The only time I notice it's there is when I mash on the gas.

[jspeedm]

hlsd = kick ass for grip/traction out of corners/etc... but be careful of hills/parking lots as it'll send power to the wheel with least traction, hence wheel spin with wheel in air/etc....


wrong. it sends power to the wheel with the most traction unless one wheel is completely off the ground. then it works like an open.

[rex2sx]

wrong. it sends power to the wheel with the most traction unless one wheel is completely off the ground. then it works like an open.

Yea. But even then, if you do the E-brake trick youll be able to get out.

[BigVinnie]

I have the OBX helical and have beaten the crap out of it for drift and autox. If you do other motor sports other than drifting its an awesome helical to own. Still holds up after almost 2 years of abuse. My friends have noticed the abuse that I have put mine through, that another one of my friends bought one too.
I love it for street use, and it is very responsive .
I don't know if the OBX will hold up to 450WHP, but I don't see why it wouldn't, it's a helical. Also check the pre load washers before install. My diff wass fine but I've heard that the pre load washers can be installed wrong on the OBX helical sometimes.

Some pics of my helical install.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/BigVinnie/OBXhelical002.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/BigVinnie/OBXhelical001.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/BigVinnie/OBXhelical004.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/BigVinnie/OBXhelical005.jpg

[JRas]

^ really blue?! kinda gay

I have a S15 HLSD, love it

good for dd and grip use.. wouldn't be good for drift because they don't lock

they are reliable and no special fluid is needed

[A&M Boy]

i've got the obx lsd in my car. I just recently put an sr in the car and havent taken it to the auto-x yet but it does its job just fine. I followed Aceinthehole's example and opened it up and found that atleast one of the belleville springs was cracked, but i was planning on replacing the stack with a new set that was more beefy than the one that came with it. Other than that they are bulletproof; nothing can really wearout on them.

here's the thread that has alot of aceinthehole's info

http://zilvia.net/f/chat/101109-obx-helical-installed-s14-ongoing-review.html

and if you need i can dig up the old part numbers of the 2 sets springs i purchased.

[BigVinnie]

^ really blue?! kinda gay

good for dd and grip use.. wouldn't be good for drift because they don't lock


Blue may be gay for you, I guess.

You don't need a locking diff for drift.
A softer suspension, which may cause some body roll will keep both tires to the ground for the HLSD. I've shredded plenty of tires with the HLSD and a some what soft suspension set up.
HLSD diffs are good for all around use, it isn't a diff that is specific to its sport, (like a 2way is for drift, and drag), (1.5way, 1way for grip, and auto x).

Mechanically helicals are far more superior to that of clutch type LSD's, as far as longevity is concerned.

[redline racer510]

A&Mcan you please enlighten us about how you replaced the "stack" and what parts you used and where you got them?

[rex2sx]

Blue may be gay for you, I guess.

You don't need a locking diff for drift.
A softer suspension, which may cause some body roll will keep both tires to the ground for the HLSD. I've shredded plenty of tires with the HLSD and a some what soft suspension set up.
HLSD diffs are good for all around use, it isn't a diff that is specific to its sport, (like a 2way is for drift, and drag), (1.5way, 1way for grip, and auto x).

Mechanically helicals are far more superior to that of clutch type LSD's, as far as longevity is concerned.

X2..Their in EVOs..I think..Their aweeeessooomme

[Exas Spec D]

So do HLSD's work as good/bad as VLSD when it comes to drifting? I mean, I drift with my VLSD pretty fine until it heats up and just starts slipping after 2 runs.

[opponheimer]

Anyone know what size belleville springs need to go on a obx lsd? And is a press needed?

[BigVinnie]

So do HLSD's work as good/bad as VLSD when it comes to drifting? I mean, I drift with my VLSD pretty fine until it heats up and just starts slipping after 2 runs.

HLSD's far surpass the performance of a VLSD, and will probably outlast it 5 times the abuse and use. HLSD's use very little friction, which in most mechanical parts that endure friction, decrease longevity. In most cases HLSD's can be repaired, while VLSD's have one life span from it's sealed enclosure for viscous silicon gel.
HLSD's are much more responsive to driving conditions than a VLSD could.
The driver has much more control of braking response, and chassis maneuverability. which is why an HLSD is is selected by more people in auto x and grip, than VLSD would be.
As far as drifting I find the helical to be far superior to that of the VLSD, as long as the proper suspension for the HLSD would be used.

[Exas Spec D]

Thanks BigVinnie for the legit info and for answering my question. Now I shall purchase an HLSD.

[rex2sx]

oh so my infos not legit, i hate you..lol

Dont worry im not lying, i studied rears for a month STRAIGHT in school..day in and out.

[jspeedm]

Any you can get clutch types or helicals in 1/1.5 way or 2 way right?

helicals only come one way.

Yea. But even then, if you do the E-brake trick youll be able to get out.

yeah if you're stuck. you can't do that going around a tight corner, when the inside wheel lifts, if you want to maintain exit speed.

[S14DB]

you can't do that going around a tight corner, when the inside wheel lifts, if you want to maintain exit speed.

That's a suspension issue not the diffs problem.

[jspeedm]

That's a suspension issue not the diffs problem.


agreed. i'm just saying that when this happens, a helical acts as an open diff and you can't use the ebrake trick. and before anyone says anything. i know, set up your suspension properly. this is just a hypothetical to make a point.

[rex2sx]

agreed. i'm just saying that when this happens, a helical acts as an open diff and you can't use the ebrake trick. and before anyone says anything. i know, set up your suspension properly. this is just a hypothetical to make a point.

I see what your saying..I agree

[BigVinnie]

agreed. i'm just saying that when this happens, a helical acts as an open diff and you can't use the ebrake trick. and before anyone says anything. i know, set up your suspension properly. this is just a hypothetical to make a point.


The only point that I would bring across is that a mega tight stiff suspension in most cases is not needed. Infact if you want to initiate a drift sooner at lower rates of speed you will want to have a much softer suspension. Roughly around a 6/4 spring rate on average and then depending on dampening deal with the spring rates from that point (possibly a 8/6 spring rate, but anything lower is actually much more comfortable for an HLSD to perform).
Unless you are a formula drift lisenced pro on a smooth track more than likely will a 2way diff, with a stiff 12/10 or 10/8 spring rate suspension would be needed.
On a practicle level most novice amature drifters aren't exceeding crazy 90 MPH speeds in the middle of a drift in which a tight suspension would be needed for higher G forces. Most tracks I go on I'm barely exceeding 65MPH and having a softer suspension has actually been more effective in making cleaner drifts, regardless of the slight body role. A softer suspension I find more effective for touge, mild drifting, auto x, and grip, I tend to like the suspension to utilize it's chassis geometry rather than leaving it so stiff that manuverability has decreased. This is why in most cases an HLSD is better than most diffs on the market, especially for it's price, it's the best bargain.
Anyone telling you that a super slammed ,mega tight spring rate is the way to go is a straight jackass poser IMO, and truely hasen't spent time on the track or on the touge.
In other words if you know how to build your suspension to your chassis's geometry, a helical for the price kicks serious ass.

[opponheimer]

yeah so i found out my vtc solenoid was unplugged (plug fell off), now as you can imagine my traction issues are magnified... even with brand new 275-40r17's at the top of third it gets squirly...


jeeeezus!

i need lsd.... and i'm pretty sure the subframe collars i installed only made it worse (correct?) shoot... they dont even make 305-40r17s, the max i can go is a 285

[S14DB]

yeah so i found out my vtc solenoid was unplugged (plug fell off), now as you can imagine my traction issues are magnified... even with brand new 275-40r17's at the top of third it gets squirly...


jeeeezus!

i need lsd.... and i'm pretty sure the subframe collars i installed only made it worse (correct?) shoot... they dont even make 305-40r17s, the max i can go is a 285
The collars should reduce wheel hop and make it better. But you will only be getting half the traction without a LSD. Once one wheel breaks loose it's over. VTC is on below the TQ peak, increasing low end TQ. It being off would reduce low end power.

[Mkiisupra1982]

ive read TONS of good things about obx lsds from the honda crowd but nothing really from the 240 community.

Not anymore. They used to be great, but now they are utter crap. As if quality control couldnt get any worse, they now have very bad issues with runout tolerance. I would avoid buying one unless you can do a runout test on it in person before you buy it.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m307/bonespec/Transmission/D%20Series/LSDs/OBX/P5090007.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m307/bonespec/Transmission/D%20Series/LSDs/OBX/P5090011.jpg

[A&M Boy]

A&Mcan you please enlighten us about how you replaced the "stack" and what parts you used and where you got them?

Anyone know what size belleville springs need to go on a obx lsd? And is a press needed?

here's a great thread with pics of the 240 obx taken apart and other good info
OBX LSD for 240sx R200 - Page 2 - HybridZ (http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=107997&highlight=obx+helical+lsd&page=2)

as far as specialty tools i used an impact wrench to take out the bolts that hold the casing togther but thats it, no presses needed.

when you get the diff there are like 9 or 10 bolts that hold the unit together that need to be removed. From there several helical gears that need to be removed surrounding a central gear. Under the central gear are two other straight cut gears that sandwich a set of belleville springs(they look like washers but the center is elevated above the outer edge). Mine were thin and brittle one was cracked and broken. I replaced them with a set of McMaster-Carr belleville springs that are a lot stronger as per the part numbers given to me by Aceinthehole. Its up to you to decide how you wish to stack them.()()()() setups yields the most deflection per load while a ))))))) setup will increase the load ability and minimise deflection. I believe the setup that the obx uses stock is (())(()), iirc i did mine ))(())((. Then its just a matter of putting everything back together.

A VERY IMPORTANT NOTE, when reassembling the diff find some kind of stick or something to run through the center of the diff to keep the springs aligned otherwise you might end up with an unpredictable diff.


Here are the part numbers for the 2 sets of springs from McMaster-Carr

9712K82 1 Pack High-carbon Steel Belleville Disc Spring, .630" Id, 1.250" Od, .040" Thick
9712K444 1 Pack High-carbon Steel Belleville Disc Spring, .531" Id, 1.250" Od, .062" Thick

Hope that helps!

[opponheimer]

The obx auction says "Make Sure To Check Backlash When Installing, Shim Properly."

What exactly do you need to shim?

[BigVinnie]

The obx auction says "Make Sure To Check Backlash When Installing, Shim Properly."

What exactly do you need to shim?


Shims go at each end of the helical and bearings. Believe me you will need more than what is offered in the diff. Backlash is a tolerance that is required between the gear teeth. Too much or too little can be bad.

[NoPistons!]

oh so my infos not legit, i hate you..lol

Dont worry im not lying, i studied rears for a month STRAIGHT in school..day in and out.

I studied rears all day every day in school.

Maybe we're not talking about the same rears....

OP, go helical.

Like you said, you're not drifting or anything so it really doesn't matter but the helical is pretty versitile anyway.

When i was in my dsm stage and was registered on 2gnt.com (lame) they had a huge discussion on why replacing $15 worth of washers on an obx was smarter than spending $800 on a quaife. Dunno if this batch they have out now is any better but i've heard that there was no c-clip seating area machined into obx diffs. Some people just didn't run them or cut seats in with a rotary tool of some sort. They may have stepped their game up after all the dsm hate mail they got during a group buy they had a couple years back.