cross drilled rotors question

[russian]

couple questions

Brembo crossdrilled rotors:

1) should i get them or convert to redrilled 300zx rotors?
2) is it true you cant resurface them>?
3) whats the dissadvatages vs advatages?

thanks

[sykikchimp]

1. you can't use 300zx rotors without the calipers
2. yes
3. disadvantages = prone to cracking, less material to absorb, and dissapate heat.
advantages = mucho bling, allow outgassing if your using crappy brake pads.

If your driving on the street, you will probably NEVER get your brakes hot enough to need it, and if your racing on the track you should be using better pads that don't outgas, and rotors that aren't prone to cracking, and causing a critical failure. (read: get blanks)


If you are going to do a full overhaul of the brakes though I would recommend getting 300zx froont brakes. you can get reman. 300zx calipers cheap at advanced auto, or auto zone. Buy some High Temp engine paint to dress them up. Buy some nice pads.. Axxis Metal Masters are nice, and aren't outrageously priced. They are an excellent street pad. Then get some of the 300zx conversion brake lines from Don at PDM-racing.com. you could buy a couple of the "redrilled to 4-lug" brembo blanks from heavythrottle.com. And don't forget getting some good brake fluid. I recommend ATE Super Blue, or Ford Heavy Duty(much cheaper). speed bleeders are nice too. you can get them through don at PDM as well.

Get all that, and your brakes are done.

[AKADriver]

Cross drilling and slotting is a complete waste of time/money.

Advantages: None significant. Pimpy motorcycle-esque looks. Slightly less resistant to pad glazing.
Disadvantages: Cost, decreased pad life, increased risk of cracking, slightly decreased fade resistance.

As for the 300ZX upgrade, does your car see track time? Do you have significantly increased power? If not, it's just not necessary... but it's a good mod to have BEFORE you go for big power. And the 300ZX brake package is a NICE upgrade. The fade resistance you get from using brakes from a 3600lb car in a 2800lb car is great.

The stock brakes with solid rotors actually do a decent job hauling down a 240SX at the track, provided the pads and fluid are up to task. On the street I can't imagine pushing brakes hard enough to require any more than OEM.

[Dousan_PG]

i got z brakes on my stock powered s13. its overkill. im selling them soon (dont pm or ask me to put you on some list, ill sell it when im ready)
anyways, i got stock brakes from grant last night. basically going to get some nice pads, stainless steel lines and that's about. maybe some brembo rotors if i have the cash, but oem will do.

i've done grip at the track w/ stock setup and kvr pads. NEVER overheated and i braked HARD many times. never faded never overheated never ran into problems.

the z32 was fora planned sr upgrade which i ditched (i am getting another car that's more fun) so its overkill

it looks cool too (z32 brakes) but i lost a ton of my wheel selection. if anything try and upgrade to 180sx brakes, they are same as maxima iirc, and the stock s13 is 10" and the 180sx/maxima is 11"

that's more then enough for most.


oh this is about rotors
um..oh brembo does not crossdrill or slot their rotors!! outside companies do.
if you buy BEMBO rotors that are cross drilled or slotted -- BREMBO DID NOT DO IT

[CoasTek240]

ok i am working on my braking system now, and like dousan said unless u've got some power to back it up z32 brakes are overkill. i decided to go with kvr pads, ss lines, good fluid, and a nice set of rotors. (ohh and i bought speed bleeders too..yeah!)... it's really the best way to go.

btw i really was attracted to the kvr rotors don sells, and i bought a set from him for my coupe but sold them b4 i had a chance to put them on. i really dont want crossdrilled rotors anymore, i dotn see huge prob with slotted either, but i'd rather get blanks. thing is i really liek the whole cadium/zinc plating=no rust idea. does anyone knwo where I can get blanks zinc already coated, or have you heard of gettingthem coated somewhere. thanx

[Dousan_PG]

check w/ raceconcepts, they drill and slot rotors and then send them out for zinc coating. they should be able to do it for you!

[russian]

dude, i DO need that 300zx conversion, Oem is not doing it.
i was racing last night again on a road near my house, some stupid kid in a v6, i wooped his ass prety bad but he almost caught up....
anyway my brakes almost somewhat faded i thought i was gonna drift through the redlight (yes call me stupid, i didnt initiate this race). now im gonna go out get 300zx upgrade.

How much im looking in $$$?

[russian]

oh it was a stock (since all i could see is that it was only riced out on exterior) mustang lx btw. either he didnt know how to drive or hes just thought he has a domestic "rice rocket".... i still cant believe all that crap he had, lcd panels, tv screen bunch of junk

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by russian
dude, i DO need that 300zx conversion, Oem is not doing it.
i was racing last night again on a road near my house, some stupid kid in a v6, i wooped his ass prety bad but he almost caught up....
anyway my brakes almost somewhat faded i thought i was gonna drift through the redlight (yes call me stupid, i didnt initiate this race). now im gonna go out get 300zx upgrade.

How much im looking in $$$?


what's your current brake setup?

cost? um..calipers go for like 200 or so. rotors another 100ish, lines 100 bucks and pads are like 50..i dont know. i mightnot even sell it. hahaha..probably save it for my friend's car. he's getting a s13 and doing SR and all that i think.

i might build a full s13 track car as well. so i dont know. right now i got the SE s14 stuff (all parts) for 30 bucks. i put out 200 for lines pads and im done. im really not losing any money nor desparate to sell this stuff. my z brakes are in perfect condition w/ earls SS lines.

[russian]

i just thought about my rims... i dont know if those huge rotors gonna be problem with them.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by russian
i just thought about my rims... i dont know if those huge rotors gonna be problem with them.

what's your CURRENT brake setup, because i think that's your problem NOT your brakes caliper themselves!!

z32 fits on 15s. just watch out on offsets and spoke design

[russian]

well setup on brakes is stock. since i got the car, i havent done nothing to brakes except i put some axxis pads on it. i might need to get diff calipers and rotors (probably those brembo non-crossdrilled ones), see if maybe they are worn out or whatnot.

everything looks fine but i dont have alot braking power (thats compared to my galant i had before, feels sorta weak)

[sykikchimp]

I recommend the zbrake upgrade to anyone who is not going to be competitively driving b/c it is an awesome upgrade, and is only slightly more expensive. (remember in competion like SCCA ITA etc, you can only use OEM parts for your model)

you can spend $450 on just upgrading all your OEM stuff, or you can spend an extra $150 on some reman calipers, and have a REAL upgrade. If I had it to again, I would have gotten the 300zx calipers, and componants.

I will say that the OEM equipment is definately adequate for the car with the stock power plant. If you don't like the brake fade your getting, just buy some better brake pads like porterfield R4s, and better fluid. that will make ALL the difference in the world.

I've run three track events, all with the OEM hardware. + SS lines, ATE Super Blue Fluid, and Porterfield R4S brake pads, and brembo blanks. Never had a touch of fade.

I will be upgrading my tires in the very near future, and will be running Hoosier R3s03's with wider width's on my car. To go with that I will be upgrading to a better brake pad to take advantage of the extra grip. Probably will pick up some Carbotech Panther XP's to use ONLY at the track. Still utilizing the OEM calipers, and Discs

[Dousan_PG]

you want to brake like a champ, replace those pads with KVRs (i love those things) from pdm-racing.com (replace all pads)
get some stainless steel brake lines on ALL 4 corners)

get some decent rotors, the brembo blanks should be fine i dont now if theres any advantage over OEM and use a dot 3/4 brake fluid.

you'll be braking much better. also if you dont downshift and brake then learn to drive. people who just jump on brakes will overheat. but if you know how to downshift and brake engine wise and brake brake wise, you'll stop a lot faster. if your driving an AUTO then your screwed. but manual tranny drivers should know how to brake and come to a almsot complete stop WITHOUT using the brakes.

example:

i'll come off the freeeway exit at 60mph in 5th, down to 4th, down to second, down to 1st (double clutch) and roll around 10mph to the light. it can be done. of course people behind me hate when i down shift because i dont use my brake lights so i lightly put foot over the brake and apply pressure to turn the rear lights one. i dont like to get another person's car in my back seats.

edit: good points sykikchimp!!
TIRES play a HUGE HUGE ENORMOUS roll in braking power!!! bad tires=bad braking. tires are what stop the car!

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by russian
well setup on brakes is stock. since i got the car, i havent done nothing to brakes except i put some axxis pads on it. i might need to get diff calipers and rotors (probably those brembo non-crossdrilled ones), see if maybe they are worn out or whatnot.

everything looks fine but i dont have alot braking power (thats compared to my galant i had before, feels sorta weak)

I would get some good fluid.. and really bleed the brakes well. sounds to me like your fluid is boiled. Make sure your rotors are still within acceptable thickness, and don't show any cracks. Look close. cracks hide, and are usually very small.

[russian]

hey since you mentioned the tires (low profile 17'), what do you guys think about:

Yokohama parada (what i have now, but almost worn out)
Kumho (those are cheaper thats what im gonna get soon)

i know yokohamas are better, but anyone has anything good/bad to say about kumhos? they ar enot bad for 85$ for 205 45 17

[russian]

i know how to downshift:) thats how im breaking now most of the time, but when its time for an emergency, i dont want to be screwed

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by russian
hey since you mentioned the tires (low profile 17'), what do you guys think about:

Yokohama parada (what i have now, but almost worn out)
Kumho (those are cheaper thats what im gonna get soon)

i know yokohamas are better, but anyone has anything good/bad to say about kumhos? they ar enot bad for 85$ for 205 45 17

Falken ST115s (aka Azenis ST115s)
Falken Azenis
Bridgestone S03
Bridgestone RE01 (i think that's the model)

oh you have skinny 17s..er...i dont know then.
you get whta you pay for.

kumhos are known to overheat fast depending n model. i know they are great for autox but my friends who used them on the track HATE THEM because they over heat after a few laps and slide all over. i've had 3 friedns who used them and will never buy them again for open track events. Azenis rule!

[russian]

I would get some good fluid.. and really bleed the brakes well. sounds to me like your fluid is boiled. Make sure your rotors are still within acceptable thickness, and don't show any cracks. Look close. cracks hide, and are usually very small.


ill bleed em as soon as it stops raining

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by russian
i know how to downshift:) thats how im breaking now most of the time, but when its time for an emergency, i dont want to be screwed

work on your heel-toe braking. in an emergency it should be natural. it will shorten your braking distance dramatically if you can downshift and brake hard at the same time. its good practice. on the race track too, its very useful.

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by dousan36
you want to brake like a champ, replace those pads with KVRs (i love those things) from pdm-racing.com (replace all pads)
get some stainless steel brake lines on ALL 4 corners)

get some decent rotors, the brembo blanks should be fine i dont now if theres any advantage over OEM and use a dot 3/4 brake fluid.

you'll be braking much better. also if you dont downshift and brake then learn to drive. people who just jump on brakes will overheat. but if you know how to downshift and brake engine wise and brake brake wise, you'll stop a lot faster. if your driving an AUTO then your screwed. but manual tranny drivers should know how to brake and come to a almsot complete stop WITHOUT using the brakes.

example:

i'll come off the freeeway exit at 60mph in 5th, down to 4th, down to second, down to 1st (double clutch) and roll around 10mph to the light. it can be done. of course people behind me hate when i down shift because i dont use my brake lights so i lightly put foot over the brake and apply pressure to turn the rear lights one. i dont like to get another person's car in my back seats.

edit: good points sykikchimp!!
TIRES play a HUGE HUGE ENORMOUS roll in braking power!!! bad tires=bad braking. tires are what stop the car!

I personally would never suggest using Engine braking for anything. Engines are made to accelerate, and brakes are made to slow you. I have blown clutches engine braking, and don't (consciously) do it anymore. I still do it sometimes when I'm not thinking about it on the street.

think about it in a track environment.. If your using your clutch to slow you, you are wearing out your clutch. heating it up, making it perform less, and ultimately wearing it out earlier than necessary. this could cause you problems 4-5 laps later comming out of the corner, and you get clutch slippage.

If you rev-match when you down shift in the breaking zone, you can manage the balance of the car much better because you don't have to predict how the engine breaking is going to affect traction. this goes hand in hand with heel-toe trail braking.

Also if your overheating your brakes you have either a or b or both as problems:
a. You staying on the brakes too long.
b. your braking harware is inadequate for the job.



On a scale of 1-10 of importantance though, I would put this all at about a 2 or 3 for a street driver. Most manual drivers will engine brake.. It's just easier, and does make it seem you have more stopping power.. even though there is an ultimate slowing traction threshold that you can meet with any combination of brakes alone, or brakes and engine braking. It really all comes down to whether you care about wearing out your brakes, or engine/drivetrain more.

[Dousan_PG]

how does revmatching in a lower gear hurt the engine?

if i go 40 in 3rd gear, rev match in 2nd the engine will slow down faster then if i just left it in 3rd. i do that all the way down to first and the car comes to a slow roll. i dont use the brakes but i also dont put extreme pressure on the engine/clutch (i think)

i dont mean engine braking like lower RPMs and lock up the rears type or soemthing along those lines

we might have different ideas ..er..definitions/explantions of engine braking.

i downshift and that slows the car down. downshift from 5th to 3rd or 5th to 4th..etc. the rpms go up and drop faster. also my final gear is not stock so it deaccellerates faster

[russian]

well im gonna get a dualfriction clutch after the tires and brakes so it wont matter much if i downshift :)
its 229$ at dualfriction.com

[sykikchimp]

as far as tires go, what tire is good for you depends completely on what you want to do with the car.

For light track duty or auto-x I always recommend:
Falken Azenis Sport (only falken tire I would use, definately #1 on my list.. )
Kumho Ecsta 712 (much better rain traction than the azenis, and much better for the mostly daily driven car.)'
Yoko AVS-Intermediates if you can find them (they have been discontinued)
Sumitomo HTR Z II
Dunlp FM901
Yokohama AVS ES100 (I hear these are decent too. I think they are replacing the AVS-i's)



The S03's and re040's and TA K/D's, etc. are all fantastic tires, but are way expensive for what you get. you have to need a very specific purpose to warrant the price those tires carry.

[russian]

whatcha think of those?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33564&item=2407732230&rd=1

[russian]

heres some more droolin.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2407477795&category=33563

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by russian
whatcha think of those?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33564&item=2407732230&rd=1

i wouldnt personally trust ebay for something so important as brakes. but that's just me.

[russian]

well, that dude has nice feedback:)

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by dousan36
i dont mean engine braking like lower RPMs and lock up the rears type or soemthing along those lines

we might have different ideas ..er..definitions/explantions of engine braking.

yeah.. I always relate engine braking (when talking to the uninformed) to the lower RPM, rear tire lock up type. What you are doing is techincally engine braking, and is much softer on the engine than what I am talking about.

I just don't want people who are new to all this, thinking that the bad one is = to the OK one. :)

[AKADriver]

Originally posted by russian
i know yokohamas are better, but anyone has anything good/bad to say about kumhos? they ar enot bad for 85$ for 205 45 17

Paradas suck... if you buy Yokohama buy AVS ES100. and get 215/45-17.

I've never been all that impressed with the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712... good performance/price, I guess, but they get too greasy when hot.

[russian]

hey sickychimp, i see you have a 5zigen exhaust like i do. do you like it (would you buy it again, if you were at the point before you got it? ... i would have)

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
yeah.. I always relate engine braking (when talking to the uninformed) to the lower RPM, rear tire lock up type. What you are doing is techincally engine braking, and is much softer on the engine than what I am talking about.

I just don't want people who are new to all this, thinking that the bad one is = to the OK one. :)

ah cool.yeah i know what you mean. i should be careful when i explain.

locking up rears is not cool! stay in school kids!

for me to lock up rears is not as dangerous as open diff, but the 2 way locks both up so its a straight slide rather then pulling to one side but still, bad idea. hurts drivetrain A LOT. but i've made mistakes at the track

haha...

[sykikchimp]

you can get the 300zx calipers for 73.99 each from partsamerica.com

you can get the rotors redrilled 4-lug for $100 for both from irotors.com

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by russian
hey sikikchimp, i see you have a 5zigen exhaust like i do. do you like it (would you buy it again, if you were at the point before you got it? ... i would have)

actually no.. I wouldn't. I like it. Sounds BADASS. but my next exhaust will be an HKS.

[russian]

you can get the 300zx calipers for 73.99 each from partsamerica.com

which year will fit my 95 (90-95?)

good price tho,very nice.

[Dousan_PG]

all years will fit.

[russian]

k cool

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
you can get the 300zx calipers for 73.99 each from partsamerica.com

you can get the rotors redrilled 4-lug for $100 for both from irotors.com

just to expand on this:

to upgrade your front brakes:

$150 calipers
$100 rotors
$100 SS lines
$10 ATE Super Blue
$50 Axxis MM pads or $90 for some nicer pads like Cobalt or Carbotech
add rear:
100 - rotors
$40-70 pads. (depending on how you want your brake bias, or if you want to match what you got up front)

total: $550 vs. $400 to do OEM upgrade. with braking power that will be sufficient for ANYTHING you could do to your car.

to be realistic with prices.. don't for get shipping.. to get all that crap shipped will cost probably $50 or more.. plus you have core charges on the claipers that you have to wait to get back..

[Dousan_PG]

the upgrade is still near 400 dollars

2 calipers at 74 each=148 dollars + shipping
rotors 100 for both = 100 dollars + shipping
pads let's say KVR =45 dollars + shipping
brake fluid (we'll go big container) 20 bucks
Stainless steel lines..probably around 90 bucks

so its going to run approximately (and this might be over/under some)

403 dollars + shipping/taxes


so have about $450-500 max imho for anything else you might run into.

edit: dammit sykikchimp you beat me!!

ALSO if you want you can upgrade your brake master cylinder (MC) so thats another 70-140 bucks (oem or no oem is your choice). use a 1990 Z32 NA 1 1/16 brake mc (i think that's right)

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by dousan36
edit: dammit sykikchimp you beat me!!


BAHaHHahaHHa snooz u l00s3 b1Aaatch :eek: :D

[DuffMan]

You can save another 50 bucks off that with the old autozone switcharoo.

[nrcooled]

Originally posted by dousan36
i got z brakes on my stock powered s13. its overkill. im selling them soon (dont pm or ask me to put you on some list, ill sell it when im ready)
anyways, i got stock brakes from grant last night. basically going to get some nice pads, stainless steel lines and that's about. maybe some brembo rotors if i have the cash, but oem will do.

i've done grip at the track w/ stock setup and kvr pads. NEVER overheated and i braked HARD many times. never faded never overheated never ran into problems.

the z32 was fora planned sr upgrade which i ditched (i am getting another car that's more fun) so its overkill

it looks cool too (z32 brakes) but i lost a ton of my wheel selection. if anything try and upgrade to 180sx brakes, they are same as maxima iirc, and the stock s13 is 10" and the 180sx/maxima is 11"

that's more then enough for most.


oh this is about rotors
um..oh brembo does not crossdrill or slot their rotors!! outside companies do.
if you buy BEMBO rotors that are cross drilled or slotted -- BREMBO DID NOT DO IT

The Maxima rotors and Altima calipers are what you need (how it was explained ot me and you don't have to worry about swaping anything else out. Plug and play

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by DuffMan
You can save another 50 bucks off that with the old autozone switcharoo.

yeah.. thats basically what I was saying to do with the partsamerica.com deal. However I don't know how the company you ship your 240sx calipers back to would react to having them as the core. I know my local autozone doesn't care, but that online store might.. :-/

[DuffMan]

It that case I would stick with the tried and true autozone. In fact I think the 240sx and Z32 calipers have the same core value, so even if they found out I doubt they would care.