any dsm guys here? need to order 4g63-T, want opinions

[ANVIL]

hey a good friend of mines 94 talon tsi (fwd) bent some valves and messed up 2 of the pistons and messed up the cylinders. hes looking to order a new motor, just wondering what your guys input on what and where to order. i dont know jack about dsms and my friend is a car guy who pays for all his stuff to get done, and doesnt know too much or get on forums. ive heard that "jdm cyclone" (wft is it) motors go for like $1200 or so for a swap and that the awd trans can sell for $500-$800. this would be the easiest/cheapest route to go I think. wheres a good reliable place to order these from or do u guys have any other recommendations?

[ANVIL]

nobody huh?

[demonspeed]

ummm try FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain (http://www.ffwdconnection.com/) they sell motors and stroker kits and they do Cryo..its a bit expensive but i'd rather pay up forward than to pay when my shit is in pieces

[demonspeed]

also AWD swap isnt worth it...trust me, it will just lead to a huge ass headache and shallow pockets. By the time you get all the parts needed for the swap you couldve just bought a AWD DSM. if you or your friend need more info check out DSMTuners.com

[ANVIL]

damn those motors look nice but hes only looking for a stock replacement. hes not trying to convert to AWD. we both just heard about jdm cyclone swap, which i know nothing about but heard it comes with the AWD trans (that would end up trying to be sold)

[TeamFRAT]

You want to know anything about DSM's call my friends here in minnesota at Modern performance. Speak with chris they are dsm gods here. I used to have a bunch as well as all my friends. We all bought parts and took advice from these guys. Everything turned out well for us. :)

Modern Automotive Performance: Your source for turbocharged sport compact performance! (http://www.maperformance.com/?iorb=4764&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=BROI)

[demonspeed]

damn those motors look nice but hes only looking for a stock replacement. hes not trying to convert to AWD. we both just heard about jdm cyclone swap, which i know nothing about but heard it comes with the AWD trans (that would end up trying to be sold)


from what i heard when i was a DSM head, there isnt an actual 'cyclone motor' more of an dual runner intake manifold that gives a little bit of bottom end power. Also, since your friend is only looking for a replacement i would try Craigslist. hell i found a 2G NA motor going for 400 just the other day O_O

[ANVIL]

yeah we look, but the ones that we find are blown. alaska's car market sucks compared to the deals i see down in the lower 48. also needs it to be turbo.

[Yellow4g63]

From what I remember you just swap the intake manifold with your stock US version. Also some of the JDM motors might come with bigger injectors and turbo. I just looked at a few importers and they are still up there but it's with the AWD trans which is gold for any 1G DSM guy. Swapping the car over to AWD is a huge pain since he would need a awd car to get all his parts from. If he gets it tell him to make an account with DSMtuners to sell the trans for 500-600 should be a quick sale. Ohh before he installs that motor he should change the timing belt, tensioner, idler pulley, water pump and get rid of the balance shaft or change that belt too.

[ANVIL]

Yellow, do u know wheres a good reliable place to order from? again, hes just looking for a longblock basically, but if he HAS to buy the trans or its more worth it to buy the trans and sell it he would do that. hes looking to stay FWD.

so let me get this straight, the JDM Cyclone engine, just different intake manifold? what does it come out of? how would we know if we ordered one, if it had the bigger injectors/turbo?

he actually has all that timing belt, tensioner, waterpump, head gasket and all that other good stuff, he was going to put it on his current motor until his mechanic did a real inspection determining that the motor was toast.

thanks for the input guys, its really helping out

[demonspeed]

so let me get this straight, the JDM Cyclone engine, just different intake manifold? what does it come out of? how would we know if we ordered one, if it had the bigger injectors/turbo?

A Cyclone is a JDM version of the U.S. Galant VR4. from what i know, it helps spooling of the 14b and the t25 but if used with a bigger turbo, it will actually lose airflow from the manifold

so basically, the only differences i see are that one comes from a Galant and one comes in an eclipse/talon which means that both are one in the same...btw, try this website for motors JDM Motor for Mitsubishi - 4G63 4G63T 4G63T 6G72 6G72TT (http://www.jazzproparts.com/category_s/18.htm)

[TeamFRAT]

When you get one pray to god that its a 6 bolt too......

[demonspeed]

When you get one pray to god that its a 6 bolt too......


meh, i dont wanna say that the whole "ZOMG 7 BOLT ENGINE IS BAD CUZ OF CRANKWALK!!!O_O" thing but honestly, if you take care of the motor, it will take care of you and not ALL 7 bolt motors have crankwalk. i know people right now in San Diego that have had their DSM's when it was brand new and NOTHING ever broke...EVAR. Hell my 98 GST was a beast until I left it on the highway (long story...)

[Yellow4g63]

Yellow, do u know wheres a good reliable place to order from? again, hes just looking for a longblock basically, but if he HAS to buy the trans or its more worth it to buy the trans and sell it he would do that. hes looking to stay FWD.

so let me get this straight, the JDM Cyclone engine, just different intake manifold? what does it come out of? how would we know if we ordered one, if it had the bigger injectors/turbo?

he actually has all that timing belt, tensioner, waterpump, head gasket and all that other good stuff, he was going to put it on his current motor until his mechanic did a real inspection determining that the motor was toast.

thanks for the input guys, its really helping out

I can't think of any off the top of my head but who ever imports motors and has a good rep I guess. Tell your buddy to check DSMtuners might be a vendor on there. The cyclone manifold had those butterflies in them that were vacuum operated but people never tried to get them. Sometimes they have 16G turbo's on them and (Yellow injectors)550cc injectors so you never know.

[s13rockford]

Okay this is what I KNOW for sure. The only difference between a cyclone and a US 4g63 is the intake manifold. The cyclone has dual runners which down low will gain a good 20lbs of torque reported on a dynojet dyno. And you loose 1cfm up top. A awesome trade off IMO. I do not have this thread marked on Tuners but it is there if you search.

Some jdm 4g63s had big 16gs with 510cc yellow top injectors. They go for 100 bucks at most on Tuners. Most however come with standard 450cc.

Now all 92.5(april and later) DSMs are 7 bolts. So if you buy a 6 bolt be prepaired to fabricate a few things to make it fit right. On my 2g 97 awd I have a 6 bolt in it and it was cake if you can turn a wrench. All that needs to be grinded is the motor mount bracket on the timing belt side. Go to RoadRaceEngineering.com or Magnus motorsports and look through their step by step of swapping the 6 bolts in.

I would just pull the thing out, buy a 1g Big rod from a 6 bolt and use a 2g piston new or used. Can be had for anywhere from free to 150 after they are mated together bya machine shop since the wrist pin hole must be enlarged to fit. Vfaq.com has a print out you can bring to your machinest to see what needs to be done. Should be no more than 70 bucks to do. This combo has made 450 to the wheels all day long on dsms provided you aren't boosting and knocking, that will kill anything. but its cheap and works. I am running a hx35 on this exact set up with no tune,low boost and make 350ish to the wheels according to DSMlink.

Also the timing tensioner is different between 1g 7 bolts and 2g 7 bolts, make sure you got the right one.

So your looking at a head gasket, arps, and a rod\piston combo for under 300 and you have the timing components. Plus another 80 for acl Trimetal rod and main bearings. I would rather do that then get some jdm thing that is sight unseen.

[gsxr141]

def check dsm tuners or dsm trader. i think the closest shop to you would be roadraceengineering. they're on the west coast. whatever you do, get the exact replacement engine for your car. anything else would be a pain in the ass. imo the best thing to do is sell the car and find an awd car. you won't be sorry. here's a pic for your enjoyment.http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll68/gsxr141/12.jpg

[s13rockford]

AWD is just more things to break, If you are just going to daily the tsi or light mod then by all means stick to it IMO.

[SexPanda]

lol wait... I though DSM's were throwaway cars... My brother's had like 8. each time one broke, he traded it for one that wasnt. Drove it til it broke, and did the same.
But he's not exactly a patient person...

[trsilvias13]

94 talon? instead of fixing junk it. For the money it would cost, you can probably find another one. One of my friend went through like 3 dsm and every car he bought 89-94 dsm were all AWD and they all ran. He bought one and then sold it made some $. Bought another one, then profit, and did it again. He spend a total of $1700 on 3 of these cars too.

Now he has a clean 98 gsx and he only spent $5k and he running 12.3 in the 1/4 mile.

[ANVIL]

well my friend really likes his car and hes not getting rid of it. rust free, pristine leather interior... its a lot nicer than any other 1g ive seen. it will be his main dd too, and hes looking to do only light mods to it for now. looks like hes decided that he wants to get the jdm cyclone motor, and will be asking for the yellow injectors and the big 16g. hes not looking to get crazy fast just yet.

i like the suggestions s13rockford but his main goal is to get back on the road and from what i see, swapping will be the easiest/cost efficient for him. basically all he wants to do is order up a motor, drop his car off pay the guy and pick it up a few days later running. he will be content with that, and build the motor later down the road. he doesnt want to do all the extra part hunting and running around even if its a cheaper and has more potential, plus pricing up here is different from lower 48. hes actually a noob/magazine racer thats trying to learn.

from what hes telling me his summer goal is: new motor, 3" downpipe+exhaust, boost controller, turbo timer, fmic, new paint, drop, new wheels. and his car will be pretty much done to him.

so just a few questions regaurding the swap...
his current motor is a 7 bolt, does he have to do anything tranny wise? i will be looking for that write up on magnus and RRE and have him read up on it also

does he need a different ecu?
will ordering a longblock suffice?
how much is a good price?

[s13rockford]

My 97 awd trans bolts right up to the 91 block. He should be fine. If he can get a 2g trans, it would be a huge upgrade in shift quality, but not needed. Ecu will work just fine still.

See I would just drop a 6 bolt long block in because it drops right in and is ready to go. All 1g cars have motor mounts on the block. 2g 7 bolts have the rear mount on the trans, and wont work. So your only options are to find a 92.5+-94 7 bolt block or to get a 6 bolt that will drop right in. Just make sure for gods sake its a turbo block. N/A 4g63s on stock internals wont like much more than 250hp if that.Honestly if you didn't want to mess with the internals I would buy a 6 bolt short block and get a headgasket and studs, get your new valves for 6 bucks a piece for oem ones. All your other stuff will still be transferable. Stock gasket won't like much over 18psi with stock studs. Don't worry about gettign yellow top injectors, evo injectors which are 560cc can be found on evo forums for 100 bucks. And a 14b will get you into 12.7 on pump gas at 22psi if you can manage a 2.1 60 foot and can drive. I have seen it.

Or a complete long block would suffice and you will have spare parts :P

I have bought long block 6 bolts for under 500 and had 165 compression and under 100k on them. I had a 2g 7 bolt complete, sold for 450.

[demonspeed]

from what hes telling me his summer goal is: new motor, 3" downpipe+exhaust, boost controller, turbo timer, fmic, new paint, drop, new wheels. and his car will be pretty much done to him.

Haha....believe me when i say that THIS ^^ will NEVER fuel that boost beast once its unleashed. My DSM went through THREE turbos because i wanted more power (T25, 14B, 16G) and i STILL wanted more:eek3: