low end ka turbo setup

[russian]

ok i know this being probably talked about, i just havent found answers for questions i have.

i want to get a low priced custom turbo setup for for my 95 240
(help out an idiot please :) )

i suppose thats what i need at a minimum :
1) t3/t3 hybrid supercharger
2) intercooler
3) wastegate (say a 7 ir 14 psi)
4) pump +injectors

what would be the minumum/also safest setup to go with ?

[Jeff240sx]

Huh? Supercharger?
How much boost do you want? 7psi or 15psi? Because the requirements are at least $1500 from eachother.
-Jeff

[russian]

i just want 7 psi for now Jeff.

[russian]

i messed up (im drinking sheiner :) )
i meant to say t3/t4 hybrid turbocharger

[JasonNagra]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Huh? Supercharger?
How much boost do you want? 7psi or 15psi? Because the requirements are at least $1500 from eachother.
-Jeff

With emphasis on ATLEAST.

[Jeff240sx]

7psi safely =
370cc injectors ($150)
AFC ($280)
Piping ($150 DIY, $350 to have made)
Turbo ($400 or so. Majesticturbo.com or cheapturbo.com)
Manifold ($225 JGS DIY, $495 for Revhard)
BOV ($100+)
Fuel Pump ($99 for s13, $122 for s14)
Gauges ($140 for 2 with pod)
Timer ($60+)
From there.. I'd recommend an exhaust, High flow filter, just breather crap.
-Jeff

[russian]

thanks alot Jeff.

[Kreator]

Just a suggestion: if you aim for 7psi, go with a t3 instead of t3/t4. Quicker spool up + it's cheaper

Jeff, you sure the fuel pump is a must for 7psi?

[russian]

so an external wastegate wont be nessecerary for 7psi, right?

[DMC]

fuel pump, timer, and bov really neccesary? i mean i know the bov would help protect the turbo, and the timer if you cant remeber to let your turbo cool down, but at 7 psi i thought we dont need a new pump till 8 or greater.

[russian]

another thing, what do you guys think about Garett t3 turbochargers? especially rebuilt. I know you can get em cheap on ebay, anywhere from 80$ to 500 for t3

[Kreator]

Originally posted by russian
another thing, what do you guys think about Garett t3 turbochargers? especially rebuilt. I know you can get em cheap on ebay, anywhere from 80$ to 500 for t3

Garret are pretty good. for around 600 u can get a brand new one. For 200-300 you can get a decent used one. I wouldn't get anything that is going for under 150 cuz it'd be likely to have some problems in it.

[russian]

i guess ill go with a new one. now i need about 2000 for whole setup. i just think its better than paying 4000 for F-max with the same **** you can get seperately for same amount of boost...

so what about a wastegate? should i get external or internal will be ok for 6-7 psi?

im prety sure also ill need to get a diff clutch for no slipin, like dualfriction.

[Kreator]

Well, it will hold 7 psi fine.... even more than that... i'd guess up to 1 bar. The diff between external in internal is that external wg flows much better than internal and they are a bit safer. The internal is however adjustable by just rotating a nut. If you are getting a new turbo, get an external wg. If you'll get a used one, they often come with internal wgs alrdy.

be ready to spend some time figuring out all the oil lines, gaskets, and nuts you'll need :)

[russian]

:)
i know i will spend days cussing in the parking lot of my apartment trying to figure it all out:)

actually, i just checked out realnissan turbo kits, they are not bad, and below 2G $$$.

another question, for 7 psi, is it nessecary/suggested to strengthen up engine ? l

[Jeff240sx]

Pump is necessary. If you have a weak spot in a turbocharged engine, DO NOT let it be the fuel system.
Also, a t3 will work. I said t3/4 because he posted it in his first post.
A BOV is semi-necessary, because why spend money on a new turbo to destroy it? It's $100, and proven to be an extremely worthwhile investment. Also, the turbo timer. I always run late, and hated idleing in a parking lot while I figured out how to wire my timer.
I think I got everything.
Oh! And t3s and t3/4s are internally gated (most of the time), so you'll need to know what the stock boost of the turbo is.
-Jeff

[russian]

cool great info, thanks!

[Kreator]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Pump is necessary. If you have a weak spot in a turbocharged engine, DO NOT let it be the fuel system.
Also, a t3 will work. I said t3/4 because he posted it in his first post.
A BOV is semi-necessary, because why spend money on a new turbo to destroy it? It's $100, and proven to be an extremely worthwhile investment. Also, the turbo timer. I always run late, and hated idleing in a parking lot while I figured out how to wire my timer.
I think I got everything.
Oh! And t3s and t3/4s are internally gated (most of the time), so you'll need to know what the stock boost of the turbo is.
-Jeff

Umm at what psi does the stock pump max out? Will raising fuel pressure abit help? (aiming for around 6-7 psi right now...)

[russian]

actually i seen quite a few Walbro fuel pump kits on e-bay (not for SR but for KA). they are around 100-120 bucks i think. so even if we do need a fuel pump then its not too much to spend.

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by Kreator
Umm at what psi does the stock pump max out? Will raising fuel pressure abit help? (aiming for around 6-7 psi right now...)

Raising the fuel pressure works directly AGAINST the fuel pump. On 370cc injectors and afc or JWT ecu, you can get fairly high (I've heard of 10psi) pressures on the stock pump. I wouldn't recommend it though. When you bump up the fuel pressure, you now have a 7psi limit, and are maxing out the pump.
Suck it up and pay the $100, and you'll be happy when you don't blow your motor.
-Jeff

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by russian
actually i seen quite a few Walbro fuel pump kits on e-bay (not for SR but for KA). they are around 100-120 bucks i think. so even if we do need a fuel pump then its not too much to spend.

Walbro (and all other fuel pumps) are chassis based, and not engine based.
All walbro kits are made for the s13 chassis, and are not oriented to work with the s14 saddle tanks. FTFmotorsports.com has put together a kit for the s14 out of 2 Walbro kits. The price is $122 for the s14 kit, and you have to email the owner for it, as it's not on the site.
-Jeff

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Walbro (and all other fuel pumps) are chassis based, and not engine based.
All walbro kits are made for the s13 chassis, and are not oriented to work with the s14 saddle tanks. FTFmotorsports.com has put together a kit for the s14 out of 2 Walbro kits. The price is $122 for the s14 kit, and you have to email the owner for it, as it's not on the site.
-Jeff
a friend of mine bought the S13 kit for his S14 and just used the stock pump sock. Seems to work fine.

Anyways, i'm gonna say the most important thing in the turbo setup is the same thing that's most important to the engine itself: oil. make sure your oil system is up to the task. the hardest part of the DIY turbo setup has got to be properly tapping the oil pan and getting the fitting on it secure. Anything smaller than 1/2" ID hose is going to end up choking oil into the turbo center section and causing it to break down faster and cake into the center section and drain line.

Take my block for instance... one oil problem = hole in block

[russian]

ok so i get the setup i want, i figured all round will be around 1500-1800$$, thats at 7psi.
how high can you run it w/o the intercooler?

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by russian
ok so i get the setup i want, i figured all round will be around 1500-1800$$, thats at 7psi.
how high can you run it w/o the intercooler?
You should have an IC at 7psi.
-Jeff

[russian]

so w/o intercooler, max boost i should run is what like 5-6 psi?

[russian]

which IC would be the best option as far as price/performance .

i see ic's on ebay (spearco for example) go for 300-500$$

[russian]

another thing.... oil cooled turbocharger is better/safer than water? or am i wrong

[Jeff240sx]

You can run w/o an IC.. but you'll need to run richer, have colder spark plugs, ect. You'll be making a lot of intake heat by compressing the air so much, and you'll need to get rid of it in the above-mentioned ways.
Spearco is arguably the best IC manufacturer, with the bar and plate design that is 30% more efficient.
Finally, watercooling is great, but hard to rig up. It is used in factory cars. Oil cooling works, but you'll need to let the turbo cool longer, hence turbo timers and such.
-Jeff

[russian]

watercooling is great, but hard to rig up

what problems would you have trying to hook up a watercooled turbocharger? what i mean is vs. oil how much more problematic it is.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by russian
what problems would you have trying to hook up a watercooled turbocharger? what i mean is vs. oil how much more problematic it is.

all turbochargers are "oil cooled". if you have a watercooled turbo it'll be the same as hooking up an oil cooled turbo, in addition to running coolant lines to your turbo.

easiest way would probably be to run lines from the throttle body warmer to the turbo, or bypass the throttle body completely and use those lines for the turbo.

[240Stilo]

Out of curiousity, how many miles do you currectly have on your engine russian?

[russian]

i have 63k on mine.

[240Stilo]

On a 95, now that's impressive. I have 128,000 miles so I might be getting an SR so I can rebuild my KA in the meantime. Just for some extra kicks, from what I remember 3 people (probably more) blew their KA's. Ace was because of the oil problem with the metal shavings, Foxcolt said he had valve float, and Jeff had a vacuum line become undone. So from this we can learn to make sure oil flow is good, make sure all lines are secured tight enough, and I think valve float would be fixed with stiffer springs right?

[russian]

well you can blow any motor:) to only way to guarantee (to an extend) that you didnt **** up on the turbo on install, is take it to a turbo shop (for couple extra hundreds)

[240Stilo]

Aww....only do it yourself thing is putting the kit together? Well, if they give you a gaurantee with the job then I say go for it.

[russian]

well.... now all i need is to get enough cash to get all the parts.

[russian]

btw... i didnt nessesary mean im gonna take it to a shop. i just said its an option, with enough time (and toolz) you can DIY prety much anytin.

as you said, just need to make sure all the hoses are sitting tight.

[240Stilo]

Hahaha....well at least you have a plan to go for. I'm still wondering if I should turbo my KA with the 128,000 miles it has on it. My arguement for it is that good compression and no abuse out of the ordinary (nitrous) I'm pretty safe as long as I don't get lazy on the fuel setup. I can go on to more but I might as well start up another thread for it.;)

[russian]

hmm.... thats what you might do.... your engine even with 128k still gonna run at least till 250k (optimistic) well the least id say 170k, turbo without a complete rebuild wont do any good.
If i were you, i would get a nice NOS system for around 700$, and get a diff pump (walbro, for exmpl) + injectors, im prety sure you could do 75hp shot easy, since KA is a truck engine (read strong internally)
hell, i might even do that myself instead of turbo LOL

[240Stilo]

Nah, I'll loose respect for myself. Turboing my car is a bigger challenge and I'll probably also be using a T3 to have faster spool now if only anyone could tell me if they heard good things about the ceramic ball bearing "tuff turbo" option from turbonetics. ( I think it's turbonetics)

[Jeff240sx]

The stock motor can take a 75 shot.
If you get a good nitrous system (Nitrous Express, only one I'd use), it is a wet system, and doesn't rely on the injectors to add more fuel. So all you'd really need to do is upgrade the pump and get the right (colder) plugs, ignition, and go. Do some dyno tuning, JWT ecu, have some fun.
-Jeff

[boosteds14]

just an FYI:

the stock MAF reads until 12psi. after that it is a lemon

the JWT ECU stage 1 is good for 12psi because it uses the stock MAF and 370cc injectors

the stock fuel pump is also good for 12psi but only with 370cc injectors and the JWT ECU


peace

[d240t2]

Stock MAF good for 12psi? Hardly. A friends stock MAF maxes out at ~7psi and ~5krpm, depending on a number of factors. I have seen the MAF max out there, on the AFC. He has 370cc injectors, so he has room to add on an enrichment after that...and that is how the car runs above that boost level. That is on a KA+T w/Z31 T3 turbo, Tony's car, under projects at www.unstable-hybrids.com

Dennis

[boosteds14]

Originally posted by d240t2
Stock MAF good for 12psi? Hardly. A friends stock MAF maxes out at ~7psi and ~5krpm, depending on a number of factors. I have seen the MAF max out there, on the AFC. He has 370cc injectors, so he has room to add on an enrichment after that...and that is how the car runs above that boost level. That is on a KA+T w/Z31 T3 turbo, Tony's car, under projects at www.unstable-hybrids.com

Dennis

well believe it, or call JWT yourself. Or better yet talk to F-Max.
I had my ka-t in the beginning running 12psi on the stock MAFs.
and all the f-max stage 1 kits use the jwt ecu, stock fuel pump and stock MAF. its been done to about 22 cars i know,(atleast that is the amount of stage 1 kits i sold so far.)

[russian]

i just talked to a friend of mine, he does Bmw turbos... well, the thing he said, and i VERY trust his judgement, even with a 7 psi turbo setup (not even talking 12psi) Ecu upgrade is a must (JWT or piggyback, which is much more), otherwise the mixures will be too rich, eventually will cause problems. so ideally theres no cheap setup:) regardless even if i manage to put together a 1800$ turbo setup, it will still need JWT chip +550$.
life sucks...

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by russian
i just talked to a friend of mine, he does Bmw turbos... well, the thing he said, and i VERY trust his judgement, even with a 7 psi turbo setup (not even talking 12psi) Ecu upgrade is a must (JWT or piggyback, which is much more), otherwise the mixures will be too rich, eventually will cause problems. so ideally theres no cheap setup:) regardless even if i manage to put together a 1800$ turbo setup, it will still need JWT chip +550$.
life sucks...
Mabey that's how they do it in BMW-land.. but the setup I and others are giving you are tried and true setups. Hell, even the kits give you the turbo and crap, along with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. They also run 240rwhp at 7psi. There is a cheap setup, and it's all in this thread.
-Jeff

[russian]

maybe :) thats the way im going regardless tho.

what about Oil cooler kits? Blitz makes them, for s14 and s13.

will they work? heres example

http://www.alamomotorsports.com/products.html?http://www.alamomotorsports.com/additions.shtml

[russian]

BTW did you thermacoat all your lines with the thermal tape?

[240Stilo]

Originally posted by boosteds14
the stock fuel pump is also good for 12psi but only with 370cc injectors and the JWT ECU


Would it be a bad thing to be working your fuel pump at a higher rate for too long? Personally I might just put in the extra $$ for an upgraded fuel pump.

[russian]

im prety sure it would be bad. its better have a higher end pump and work it half way hard. :)

[Zemus]

I am really lucky i know someone who can make me a manifold and all the piping for around 150, and then the intercooler piping for 50. So thats 200. Im getting the turbo and everything else needed to run it for 10 dollors (Turbo, Intercooler, Wastegate oil lines and that kind of stuff) Thats like 210$s so far. Then a BOF off a 3000GT which should be around 35$s. 370cc injectors =50 bucks. Then A Boost Controller a (Greddy Profec-B Turbo Boost Controller) about 50 bucks. Personaly i would like a Turbo timer, thats like 50 bucks. Boost Gauges and other various Gauges about 40. And then the fuel pump for 100.




150+50=200
200+10=210
210+35=245
245+50=295
295+50=345
345+50=395
395+40=435
435+100=535 wow only 535 bucks, for a decent working setup.

How does that sound to you guys

[russian]

will that guy be able to do something like that for a 95 setup?

[Jeff240sx]

Oni. You're missing a fuel controller. 370cc injectors are more than $50, gauges are a helluva lot more than $40, and is the $10 turbo gonna be a POS?
-Jeff

[russian]

pipin for 150 is prety cheap! i know a dude who can do mine for about 250-300 :( lucky you!

[Zemus]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Oni. You're missing a fuel controller. 370cc injectors are more than $50, gauges are a helluva lot more than $40, and is the $10 turbo gonna be a POS?
-Jeff

I know im missing that, i forgot that :-/. 370cc injectors are from a 300zx or sr20 are commanly on ebay and they go for 50$s. Same with gauges on ebay. And the turbo for $10 is from a stock car and im getting if from my friends auto dismantaling class, all turbos go for 10$s, even thought its worth alot more, right their, i just get a great deal. Its in great condition, and an intercooler and all the turbo parts from the stock car, not bad for 10$s

[russian]

damn. 10$ for turbo and i/c is basicly FREE stuff. if its in great working condition its to kill for L:)

[Zemus]

Originally posted by russian
damn. 10$ for turbo and i/c is basicly FREE stuff. if its in great working condition its to kill for L:)

Yea i sure hope so, :) It should rock, not many people can say they got their car turboed for 700$s :)

[Kreator]

Originally posted by Oni
I know im missing that, i forgot that :-/. 370cc injectors are from a 300zx or sr20 are commanly on ebay and they go for 50$s. Same with gauges on ebay. And the turbo for $10 is from a stock car and im getting if from my friends auto dismantaling class, all turbos go for 10$s, even thought its worth alot more, right their, i just get a great deal. Its in great condition, and an intercooler and all the turbo parts from the stock car, not bad for 10$s

Sorry to ruin yer dream, but the injectors on ebay dont' go for 50 for a long time. Average price for the last month was about 125, and the latest piece i saw went for 132.

Gauges... those aren't cheaper than other stores. not autometer for one (the lowest i would go in gauge accuracy). They are a little cheaper, but then if you are buying 3-4, you lose on shipping since summit only charges fixed $8 handling.

And for some reason, looking at the list you gave... looks quite far from a decent setup to me.

[Zemus]

Originally posted by Kreator
Sorry to ruin yer dream, but the injectors on ebay dont' go for 50 for a long time. Average price for the last month was about 125, and the latest piece i saw went for 132.

Gauges... those aren't cheaper than other stores. not autometer for one (the lowest i would go in gauge accuracy). They are a little cheaper, but then if you are buying 3-4, you lose on shipping since summit only charges fixed $8 handling.

And for some reason, looking at the list you gave... looks quite far from a decent setup to me. So im short maybe 100, and a lil bit for the Super AFC but thats still around 700ish, not to bad