To those of you with fwd offsets and spacers... [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

NiteKids

03-14-2003, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by James
Why not Nitekids? Hmmmnnn?
Plenty of guys run high offsets even with coilovers and big brakes.
= your advice sucks.
Not enough tyte JDM-spec goodness for ya- you need to explain yourself.

Because of the design of the spokes some wheels won't clear.
Some wheels will clear but won't clear Z32 brakes. But spacers can solve both if need be.
So it all depends.
Both offset and to some extent wheel design should be thought of in your buying decision.

Being that you are running fwd offset wheels with spacers doesn't mean anything. (suddenly when you do it "plenty of guys run highoffset even with coilovers and big brakes." )

Hmmm okay lets take two cars for instance that are running coilover and big brakes. Sams from jspec and (S13) and also JDM rices S13. Oh what's that they are running 30 offset (or something to that extend) and also -4!? I don't see any wheel spacers here.

What does buy CORRECT offset for the car have anything do to with "jDm TyTe." It's quite simple for our cars. Lower offset wheels are more flush with the body, more posiblity to clear coilovers(of course this is on a setup to setup basic depending on what coilover you are using, wheel width, tire size etc.), and also more likey to clear big brakes (also has much to do with spoke design.)

James:
Your question for me was "why not?"
My question back to you is "Why?"

Why would you want to purposly buy fwd offset wheels for a rwd car. Instead of running a spacer or wheel adapter (Which both are questionable in safely) why not buy wheels that were ment for the car? I mean I can understand if you bought high offset wheel in your not so informed days and didn't want to go through the wheel process again and just used spacers. But if you know from the start what you need why buy the wrong thing and then have to buy another thing just to make it work and not buy the right thing from the begining?

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 12:03 AM

How are low offsets "correct"? They will mess with steering feel and negatively affect handling. I would think the "correct" offset would be the one it came with.

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by DuffMan
The car comes stock with a fwd offset.

True but for the general public that does them just fine. The wheels the car came with were obviously never intended for a enthusiant in mind. I'm sure at Nissan they weren't thinking "We need to put lowre offset wheels on the car stock so the consumer can clear coilovers and big brakes."

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 12:15 AM

No they were thinking "we need to put this offset on the car because that is what the steering geometry is designed arround"

What the hell would make you think low offset wheels are more performance oriented?

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by DuffMan
How are low offsets "correct"? They will mess with steering feel and negatively affect handling. I would think the "correct" offset would be the one it came with.

Well let me rephrase that. I think the word I should have used was "optimal." (I don't think I even spelled that right.)

Well anyways the stock width and offset I don't find to be that great. Like the tires are too skinny. Sure you could slap some fatter rubber on those stock wheels or the puny 7inch aftermarket wheel but the tires would buldge and also alot of flex. Not much of a imporvement if you ask me.

Baiscly this is the way I look at it. (Of course we have our own opinion on everything so it's impossible to agree on everything.)

The advantages of buying semi wide and rwd offset wheels

1. Coilover clearence (Has much to do with coilover design, the width of your wheel and also the width of tire you put on the wheel. Also of course your camber settings affects that too. Basicly lower offset more chance for clearnce.)

2. Brake Clearence(this has mostly to do with spoke design but like coilover clearence the lower the offset the more chance of clearing.)

3. Peace of mind. What would you rather have. the right offset or fwd offset with a huge wheel adapter with posiblity of failure and comming off. (of course there are chances of stuff like this with any type of setup.)

Of course in the end it's all up to you but this is just the way I look at it. Also like dousan for instance is running a big wheel adapter. Nothing wrong with it but like the wheels he has he doesn't exactly have much choice on offsets. Take what you can get. Work with what you have. He had to clear coilovers in the future brakes.

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by DuffMan
No they were thinking "we need to put this offset on the car because that is what the steering geometry is designed arround"

What the hell would make you think low offset wheels are more performance oriented?

Hmmm. I still can't seem to figure out why you keep insisting on fwd wheels on your car. It's your car, your money and your choice but I'm just giving you my views on it.

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 12:21 AM

Maybe you could write a book. "Suspension tuning for looks, not handling"

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 12:30 AM

Your just not getting it are you? In a nutshell. Lower offset wheels which were more ment for rwd advantages

1. coilover clearence
2. Brake Clearence
3. Fender lining cleance (Won't rub on hard turns)
4. No need for wheel adapter or spacer to clear
5. Better apearence with wheels flush with body

What's the point off your so called geomotry on handling by using fwd wheels? It's not like the wheels aren't pushed out more using *Gasp Spacers or wheel adapaters which in essence makes it lower offset anyway when you want to clear coilovers and big brakes since your going to need them (Usually) when you upgrade to these. So there goes your theory of fwd offset wheels which are best for handling.

Also think of it this way. Lets assume your statement that went something like "fwd offset wheel is the best for handling." (Lets disregard any facts or if this even makes anysense.) Lets just say if this was true. Then why would you see all the performace using lower offset and wider wheels. If your statement was true why aren't I seeing them running wheels all 5 feet in the fender well?

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 12:38 AM

1. None of this has anything to do with FWD or RWD. The vast majority of modern RWD cars use so called FWD offsets.

2. You can clear coilovers with FWD offsets

3. You can clear Z brakes with FWD offsets

4. You can run the widest possible tire and still fit in the fenders with a fwd offset.

5. When you move the contact patch in relation to the steering axis it will affect the handling and steering feel of the car.

You seem to have no real concept of different offsets and how they will fit on the car.

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 12:42 AM

Another thing I forgot to mention is that when buying new wheels for your car why buy fwd offsets. if your stock wheels which happen to fwd offset clears everything that's fine but I'm mostly talking about when buying aftermarket wheels.

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by DuffMan
1. None of this has anything to do with FWD or RWD. The vast majority of modern RWD cars use so called FWD offsets.

2. You can clear coilovers with FWD offsets

3. You can clear Z brakes with FWD offsets

4. You can run the widest possible tire and still fit in the fenders with a fwd offset.

5. When you move the contact patch in relation to the steering axis it will affect the handling and steering feel of the car.

You seem to have no real concept of different offsets and how they will fit on the car.

1. Often True

2. True

3. Has more to do with spoke design then offset but loweroffset has more chance to clear.

4. Sure you could put your 7 inch wheel all down in your wheel well with your wide tire. Oh what's that? You hit your strut housing and can't turn?!

5. True. But in a negative or positive way is your own opionion.

You seem to have no real concept of different offsets and how they will fit on the car.

Like I said though...your car, your money, your choice. Do what you THINK is right. No use trying to change your views if you aren't willing to listen or take others suggesions.

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 12:56 AM

Do you know how wide you can go with FWD offsets? Right now I have 225's on +35 offset with pleeeeeenty of room. The SCC project car has 225's on +43 offset WITH coilovers.

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 01:04 AM

When I think fwd offset I think 40 and above....even myself I'm using 35 offset up front on my s14. I would have went 27 upfront if I didn't have to get those imported since thats not a regualr one they keep in stock. How wide are your wheels anyway?

I do question why SCC used what they used though.

goodjuan

03-15-2003, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by NiteKids
Do it right! Don't buy fwd wheels. I MEAN WHYY!!!!

No man, i didn't say i was going to buy fwd offset wheels. I was asking why so many people seem to have them. And i was guessing that maybe spoke design on fwd cars helps with brake clearance(with spacer). And i was just trying to see what the real deal was.

SilviaDriver

03-15-2003, 01:19 AM

wheres Aaron when u need him hahah..suspension guru. from what i read..spacers are bad. but dont mind me..im juss passing thru..do continue

soulDistortion

03-15-2003, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by NiteKids
Do it right! Don't buy fwd wheels. I MEAN WHYY!!!!

Why? Because you can, and because it will work.

Hey NiteKids, you are aware that a lot of people regard anything you say as being pretty much worthless, right? Someone who is new to this board might even think you know what you're talking about, considering the amount of bitching about and attention whoring of your car that you do (and not just on zilvia, I might add). And that someone would be wrong.

Not everyone is willing to shell out extra cash for the oh-so-vaunted pushed out/big lip look if it serves no purpose other than the "ooh ahh" factor.

There is a range of offsets that will work for 240's. Lower offset doesn't suddenly equate to better. If that were the case, the 240 would have lower offset stock.

No use trying to change your views if you aren't willing to listen or take others suggesions.

Oh sweet, sweet irony. You have yet to provide any uncontested point other than "it looks better". James has already stated that a low offset isn't always needed for clearance. Everything else is sheer aesthetics, and that wasn't the issue at hand to begin with.

The original question was this:
So does having FWD offset wheels and spacers help with brake clearence??

The answer is this: FWD offset wheels are pretty much cheaper and easier to come by in the US (hence why many people run them), and the spacers help if there are any clearance problems as per individual application (i.e. clearing brakes or suspension, etc.). There. Question answered, no need for mindless NiteKids spewing without giving any thought out reasoning.

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 02:59 AM

i am too tired lazy and could really care lesss

dont buy FF wheels unlesss you are poor or cant wait (emergency)

spacers are safe if you set them up properly

i have bolt on spacers on the front. i retorque them monthly for my safety.

i dont like the longer stud/spacer stuff but lot suse it so i guess its ok. its your call

offsets? who cares? spacesr, rolled fenders, flares and negative camber fix all of my problems

buy the proper wheels for your car. nitekids is right i agree but not how he posts it but he knows whats up.

ff wheels are for pussies. flame me. i could care less. im more then pleased spending 980 on some f'in sick full set of Longchamp XR-4 15x7.5 +5 which are 100% pristine brand new condition and one year old!

kiss my grits, NOOOOOCH

DoriftoSlut

03-15-2003, 03:38 AM

Guys... lets see you fit 17x9 +45 wheels on front (and rear for that matter). Riiigghht, you can't I forgot!

Ugh YOUR ignorance discussing the suspension geometry and what the FACTORY intended is sickening. If you are gonna break out the "big guns" make sure the clips are loaded correctly. Or in your case, make sure you explain your reasoning, or can you? Because if you can, you will see that you are wrong. Check it:

I presume you are talking about bump steer and scrub radius? Ok, if you aren't you need to be bashed with a hammer, cause you are not concentrating on what is occuring. For bump steer AND scrub radius problems, the problem stems from where the center of the CONTACT PATCH is located. I can't draw you any pictures on the internet, but just think of it this way:

17x7 +40: Ok, but horrible looks (plus limited clearance)
17x9 +30: Fine in all areas, good looks, flush, etc...
17x7 -5: Adverse affects, good looks though

Now what you guys propose: the honda/fwd offsets with a spacer to clear your components (those wheels also always come in 7 inch or no more than 7.5 inch sizes) falls under the last category up there. Meaning in wheel itself, the things may be fine, but after you mount and modify it, it sucks, and you are back at square one.

Modern RWD cars: not our cars. Simple. Honda S2k... much different suspension... don't compare apples to oranges.

Looks: Hey whatever floats your boat.

Basic point: get the facts before talking about bump steer and scrub radius... it has to do with contact patch orientation to the steering axis.

Wide wheels, low offsets: ok
Narrow wheels, high: stock suspension: ok
Medium wheels, medium offsets: ok as well in the bump steer and scrub radius dept's

Also, I'm with Dousan do what you want, and if you want to flame, go ahead I can back my sh_t up.

I did it the right way: $1700 for R33 GTR wheels (17x9jj +30) and 95% tires. How much do people spend on those horrible 17x7 ROTAs or Konig's? Hmm. ANd those are not even original designs. NONE of those FWD TunEr companies....

:D

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 03:40 AM

you all got f'in owned by dorifto180sx.
he's got mad tyte jdm typing and car knowledge skillz. sick yo.

nrcooled

03-15-2003, 11:16 AM

I did it the right way: $1700 for R33 GTR wheels (17x9jj +30) and 95% tires

Correction you did it your way. When it comes to matters of taste and opinion everyone will have differing views on the subject. I personally find your methodology closer to mine but again not everyone can afford $1700 for rims.

Hell right now I am going to purchace some old school mesh rims off a Saleen Mustang. They have the width I want w/ the offset I want. They don't have the "bling-bling" factor that I am sure you are trying to avioid w/ your $1700 rims. It seems to me you are pretty damn close to the ricey a$$ hondas running around my area.

I just don't think it's cool to condemn someone for the limits of their bank account.

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 11:19 AM

you can get r33 gtr wheels for 1400 w/o tires
but the tires he got w/ his were f'in brand spankin new.

i plan to get some. oem wheels rule.

what width and offset are these rustang wheels?

nrcooled

03-15-2003, 11:27 AM

They are 7.5" wide and +30 offset

Edit: for $150 I don't think it's too bad of a deal. Just a start to my future wheel collection so when I go to the track and have an off I can just swap wheels if that is the case

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 11:37 AM

bleh

full set?
or pair?

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 11:38 AM

Correct offset wheel aren't expensive. Like my cheap ass 5z's were only 750 before tires. 17x8 and 17x9

35 offset all around. I knew I should have got those 27's upfront damn it! Doh!

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 11:46 AM

i have it with the fender and the offsets as it is because:

a) i have a 30 mm spacer
b) fenders are rolled
c) i need a wider stance
d) clears coilovesr and z brakes that i have
e) i like to look at my car and be happy as well as it is nice to have other people compliment my car at meets and meet new people and help them

ask anyone who's met me and they know who i am

act all tough? WTF.
if you enjoy buying the wrong wheels for your car that's your business. i am trying to help people buy proper wheels with proper offests that will not only clear everything but also look decent.

i can get mesh for a full ste for 300 dollars. it looks good and cheap. or pay more and get some 1,000 dollar wheels. and then again a full set for 100 dollars. so its all about what you are aiming for.

and **** for brains, i never said they would be flsuh with the fender
in case you dont know, i drift. A LOT. i use a lot of negative camber, toe settings and caster settings. i use the camber for control and sliding. the spacer for stance and that's what i do. have you tried putting -4 degrees on a +40 wheel with a set of coilovers? um.not going ot happen. also it makes the back end unpredictable and harder to control. putting the car sideways with a low offset is ridiculously easy.

poeple who buy FF offsest are pussy
they'd rathre waste the money buying wheels that are

a) NOT MADE for their car
b) offset wont clear future upgrades such as brakes and coilover meaning they'll hve to buy ANOTHER set of wheels soon

so i think teling people to buy the PROPER wheels the FIRST time is more helpful then saying "buy whatever fits"
becase you arnt thinking for the future

i said flame me cuz im laughing whenim typing. you have no idea how much responses like yours amuse me

there's not flaming, im stating a opinion AS WELL AS advice

as for dorifto wheels your all jealous cuz oh damn, he has money and i dont. .17x9+30 clears all things. and its flush with fender. its not only very classy looking but a VERY popular wheel stateside and in japan(on fcs, chasers, skylines, silvias, 180sx, etc etc). it stil retails so high because ist damn popular. if i could get a wheel that clears all, looks damn good, i'd have some too (but im not five lug)

anyways. your just jealous

nitekids is right. proper offset IS NOT EXPENSIVE

you just want the "here and now" rather then wait and get the right stuff.

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 11:51 AM

oh and here are the wheels im off to pick up

http://www.gspeedcorp.com/pictures/Longchanp%20XR41.JPG

full set 15x7.5 +5
1 year old! pristine condition.

see ya, im off to pick them up!! WOOT WOOT

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 11:53 AM

James: Learn to read. When eversomeone tries to prove a point about the advantages the only part of advantages that sticks to your head is the flush apearence. READ THE OTHER PARTS WE POST!

nrcooled

03-15-2003, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by dousan36
bleh

full set?
or pair?

Full set. Pretty excited about the purchase. Cheap and exactly what I was looking for. Hell of a lot better than stockies that I am running now

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 12:09 PM

Also how you say MANY people run highoff sets on rwd cars...why...is it money? Nope? Lack of availabity? nope? What's that? IGNORANCE! THey don't know about it. they just know the wheel is bling bilng 18's not knowing or caring about the offset or width

Bbandit

03-15-2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by dousan36
oh and here are the wheels im off to pick up

http://www.gspeedcorp.com/pictures/Longchanp%20XR41.JPG

full set 15x7.5 +5
1 year old! pristine condition.

see ya, im off to pick them up!! WOOT WOOT

yay dousan! you're getting new wheels!
now sell your rear mesh to ME!!!!!!!!!! AHAHAAHAHAAHAHA :eek:

DoriftoSlut

03-15-2003, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by NiteKids
Also how you say MANY people run highoff sets on rwd cars...why...is it money? Nope? Lack of availabity? nope? What's that? IGNORANCE! THey don't know about it. they just know the wheel is bling bilng 18's not knowing or caring about the offset or width

Yep!

To everyone hating on my R33's: That is NOT expensive for proper-sized rims. Sorry for saying the "right way" since obviously it differs person to person, etc... What I meant was more the right sizing for what i desire: performance, looks, fitment, all under stock fenders for now.

And if you think that i have loads of cash: nope. I had stumbled upon that deal from a friend. I have had many people offer to buy the wheels from me since then.

Anyway, I remember seeing drift tengoku magazine where they tested a car with stock track width, stock in rear 30mm spacer front, stock front 30mm spacer rear, and 30mm spacer all around. They found it more beneficial to have the wide track, despite certain downfalls that do come with it. But it is all what you desire for your car.

To me, it sounds like you guys are kockin' our jDm bLinG wheels (Which they are not... try looking at some Nismo LMGT4, TE37, Work, Regamaster, Blitz, etc...) because you are too impatient to hunt for a good deal/get properly sized wheels. Impatience is NOT good when building a car. It seems to me that YOU guys are in it for the looks (Fro the most part). Buying Volk GT-C knockoffs in 17x7 +43 and fitting them on stock suspension. Then telling us that THAT is better, cause it is more "factory spec". Oh sure, 17x9's with JIC FLT-A2's definitely is not factory, but want to bet who's car handles better? Remember that "factory" settings suck ass most of the time, seeing as how they are a compromise to try and satisfy ALL the buyers in one way or another. They did not concentrate on performance, our cars were not of that stature or price point. The goals of factory settings on a 240 are MUCH different than a 911 GT2.

Ok, i gg for now. Keep flaming all you want about how much money I/we have spent on correctly sized wheels, and forget about all your other arguments that I demolished... just like you have been doing. :rolleyes:

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 01:38 PM

Dousan, I'm sorry but I think those wheels look crap. They look like those small wide wheels that people mostly of hispanic decent (no racial slur intended) put on all kinds of vehicles and they stick out.

Fine if that's what you're into but not what I would think of a performance car should have.

Dorifto180sx you completely failed to back up your argument. You made half a argument at best.

FWD offsets are fine on our cars. I'm sorry if that doesn't conform to your phat lip jdm nazi philosophy. Looks is looks. Offset is offset. If someone finds a wheel that they like the way it looks and the offset works for their kind of mods, just because it happens to be a "FWD offset" doesn't mean its a bad choice. Most of us aren't into building some poser JDM show car like a few of you guys seem to be.

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 01:50 PM

Lower offset does not mean:

Fat lip ...often times they don't even have lip for instance the R33 wheels

JDM poser.....what does flush wheels and cleance have anything to do with posing

Just because you bought wheels for your car that are fwd offset and it happens to work decent with your setup does not mean it's the right way. So this may have been the path you chose to go but does not mean that is the way everyone should go. I don't understand why you have a problem with what we think we should do.

I have one question for you. When you bought you wheels at the time did you know the offset of them or cared about the width? Did you know about all the factors when buying the wheels? I'll have to admit at one point I almost ended up with fwd 7inch wheel on my car but that was when I didn't know any better. I almost bought these wheels off my friends type R. (almost a year ago.) I'm glad I passed up on them because I would have been screwing myself over on it.

I understand you have 4 lug and your choies are quite limited being in the states and also being in a area not quite as easy to get what you want in 4lug aplication but being that your situation isn't the best doesn't mean that's how you should tell others how it should be done. Sure you may think it's fine for you but if it is possible to do it right without wheel adapter WHY NOT?

So with everything you said is this your bottom line statement....

"buy fwd offset 7.5 inch wide wheels because it's works for the most part and it's easily acessible and i won't be a Jdm poser having my wheel stance about the same as stock and not having my wheel flush(or something to that extent) with the fender wells."

or if this is not what you are trying to say. Please tell me what YOU think we should do.

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 01:59 PM

Like when I bought my wheels It had to satisfy MANY things not just looks nice.

1. Wider sizes (8 inch and up)

2. Dish (Sure this isn't functional but looks nice.)

3. Spoke design to clear big brakes

4. Lower offset to clear coil over without use of spacer

and Flush with fender(or almost.) Simply looks nice

5. Wider stance simply is better. It's proven

Do NOT buy wheels simply because it fits. But I guess this is fine if you don't plan on upgrading brakes or using coilovers and like your wheels and pushed in the fender and also like have pizza cutters for tires. Of course you could flat on some fat budlging tire but what's the advantage of that especially with all that tire flex.

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 01:59 PM

I don't have a problem with what you think you should do.

What I have a problem with is the way you dousan, and dorifito have dictated to this forum what wheels are "correct" for our cars. This whole thing was started by your first post telling people what to do.

I mean I think dousan's wheels look like monkey ass but I'm not going to go posting everywhere "Don't buy poser wheels like dousan, IT'S WRONG!!!!1111" because people can make their own choices. But when you misinform people by saying your way is right when all you have to back that up is a personal preference about the way it looks, I'm going to call you on it.

NiteKids

03-15-2003, 02:01 PM

PLEASE READ CLOSER! The lower offset is MUCH more then apearence.

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 02:05 PM

We've been over this before, coilovers, z brakes wide tires ect. all work with fwd offset wheels. Not all of them, but every wheel is different. I know plenty of low offset mesh rims wont clear Z brakes. People have to see what works for them and their mods, there's no easy answer and no answer that's 100% right for everybody.

DoriftoSlut

03-15-2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by DuffMan
We've been over this before, coilovers, z brakes wide tires ect. all work with fwd offset wheels. Not all of them, but every wheel is different. I know plenty of low offset mesh rims wont clear Z brakes. People have to see what works for them and their mods, there's no easy answer and no answer that's 100% right for everybody.

You are not backing up any of YOUR arguments, dude. When I talked about scrub radius and bump steer, what? Did you want me to write you a little bibliography of where the info came from? Hmm... where are you coming up with the notion that FWD offsets are better/will clear everything that low offset wide wheels will?

Coilovers? Heck no. I would not clear **** with fwd offsets. Z32 brakes? Spoke design. You mentioned how mesh wheels don't clear either... yeah they were made before R32's and Z32's were even in production. Why would they take into consideration something that was not even around?

I don't see what you guys are trying to prove other than: "With stock suspension and stock brakes (for the most part), you can do FINE with 17x7 +43's! Yeah! But if you do any type of motorsports/tuning/drifting/etc... you will not be able to do this, and you will be a poser!" WTF does that prove? Nothing. IF your setup allows you to run theese horrible wheels, so be it, it probably can't compete with what Dousan, Nitekids, or I have as far as suspension and brakes and tires and... well you get the point. It seems that you are just settling for a sub-par setup just because it works and you have not researched enough to find out what works best and WHY!

I actually have to go do something other than school you idiots on suspension and proper wheel sizing and their respective effects on your car's geometry. PEACE. Be back to go at it later...:D :rolleyes:

CoasTek240

03-15-2003, 03:32 PM

fwd wheels suck my N U T S !.....james your more worng than you could ever imagine.. noble effort to try in prove your point. good job mustering you half a$$ info.. but in conclusion it's wrong.. they call them large + offset wheels are called fwd wheels for a reason

wow this post makes just wann give up

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
You are not backing up any of YOUR arguments, dude. When I talked about scrub radius and bump steer, what? Did you want me to write you a little bibliography of where the info came from?
You just mentioned two terms. That's not an argument. You even admitted that with really low offsets the effect is negative. I think something like +25 would be okay and not screw up stuff too much, but I would rather something like +35. Dousans wheels would just be crap.

Hmm... where are you coming up with the notion that FWD offsets are better/will clear everything that low offset wide wheels will?
I never said they were better. I said depending on the wheel some do. You can't make a blanket statement that all high offset wheels suck for this reason when many of us who are running them, choose ones that clear this stuff.

Coilovers? Heck no. I would not clear **** with fwd offsets. Z32 brakes? Spoke design.
The SCC project car clears JIC's with +43 offset, 225 wide tires. It depends on which coilover, but once again you have to do your homework in advance.

You mentioned how mesh wheels don't clear either... yeah they were made before R32's and Z32's were even in production. Why would they take into consideration something that was not even around?
Obviously. So it each wheel is different and offset isn't the only factor affecting clearance you say? I would have never guessed.:rolleyes:

I don't see what you guys are trying to prove other than: "With stock suspension and stock brakes (for the most part), you can do FINE with 17x7 +43's! Yeah! But if you do any type of motorsports/tuning/drifting/etc... you will not be able to do this, and you will be a poser!"
See the SCC project car above. Also running the Brembo upgrade for Z brakes.

WTF does that prove? Nothing. IF your setup allows you to run theese horrible wheels, so be it, it probably can't compete with what Dousan, Nitekids, or I have as far as suspension and brakes and tires and... well you get the point. It seems that you are just settling for a sub-par setup just because it works and you have not researched enough to find out what works best and WHY!
It proves that blanket statements are wrong.

I actually have to go do something other than school you idiots on suspension and proper wheel sizing and their respective effects on your car's geometry. PEACE. Be back to go at it later...:D :rolleyes:
Good luck. Whatever it is you are doing, I hope you are better at it than you are at "schooling" us about wheels/suspension.

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by DuffMan
Dousan, I'm sorry but I think those wheels look crap. They look like those small wide wheels that people mostly of hispanic decent (no racial slur intended) put on all kinds of vehicles and they stick out.

alright dude, i dont think you **** about me
i run -4 degrees neg camber always. why? i drift. a lot.

please READ what i post .secondly, three are EXTREMELY popular wheels in japan AND the USA. i was lucky to put them on hold cuz gspeed had 4 (four) people call RIGHT AFTER i did, ready to buy them too!!

actually its for my s13 and my next car. here's what they look like. if you dont drift, shut up because you dont know about how to set up a 'drift car' (alignments wise). no offense, but the ingorance on this thread is unbelieveable.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid53/p722d87304d29dceb747c48d931a5f56f/fc8c1572.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p947b00560ff5b97cb3ff24e2e3bf64d2/fc803972.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p7473f2d0aa7cc86f75e5ab210a0c13b4/fc803971.jpg
http://www.twelve100.com/images/title_headers/Title-Drift-Showoff.jpg

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by DuffMan
[B]You just mentioned two terms. That's not an argument. You even admitted that with really low offsets the effect is negative. I think something like +25 would be okay and not screw up stuff too much, but I would rather something like +35. Dousans wheels would just be crap.

yes more negative will create bumpsteer.

The SCC project car clears JIC's with +43 offset, 225 wide tires. It depends on which coilover, but once again you have to do your homework in advance.

what width of wheel is it???

i dont read sport compact.

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 04:30 PM

7.5

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 04:37 PM

can you please verify thye arent using spacers?? that sounds really weird to me. i mean, my kosei k1s BARELY clear Z brakes and their +27
yeah it spoke design. and that tire size..gotta be spacers imho. please verify.

thanks

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 04:50 PM

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0211scc_projsilvia/

Actually it looks like they had to use a 5mm spacer to clear the coils, the brakes werent a problem.

So you are setting your car up for drifting douasan. That's great but most of aren't. Most of us daily drive our cars. Those wheels wouldnt be good for grip or daily driving.

adey

03-15-2003, 04:52 PM

Holey Mahookey mama!! Dousan you're getting XR-4s?!?!?! That's insaaaane. I'm ridiculously jealous. :p that's a really, really lovely width/offset, too! You'd better not curb those babies. I'll just have to spank you if you did!

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by DuffMan
http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0211scc_projsilvia/

Actually it looks like they had to use a 5mm spacer to clear the coils, the brakes werent a problem.

So you are setting your car up for drifting douasan. That's great but most of aren't. Most of us daily drive our cars. Those wheels wouldnt be good for grip or daily driving.

**** your not listening. MY WHEELS FOR MY SETUP

i said lower offset wheels to give good clearance to stuff. i didnt tell people "get 0 offset wheels"

if i did, please show me!!!!

i sadi get the proper wheels for your car, not FF wheels.

5 mm yeah that's what i though. the brakes no it would ned to clear brakes i think. it clears the coils fine. brembo brakes are HUGE if yo've never seen them in person.

adey! YEP i got all 4 now. heheheh...mmm so nice they are super clean!! nah no curbing. for track use mostly. long story, i'll tell younext time i see you!! :)

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 05:05 PM

So proper wheels would be what? 20-30? Who the fuk cares? The SCC car cleared brakes and and coils with the wheels. If they had gone with something like 215/45 they wouldnt have needed the spacer at all.

Your wheels your setup. Great. Many setups work fine with so called FF wheels. Even if those setups include upgraded brakes and suspension. Examples are the SCC car, James' car, my car (even though the suspenson and brakes are stock there is room for both)

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 05:08 PM

'proper' set up is of a personal opinion. proper for what i do with my car is different from a 'proper' setup with you car

if you like running spacers then yeah get the FF wheels and brakes/coilovers. i dont like to depend on spaces so i gte the proper wheels.
so far i have own at least 15 wheels in the past 1 year. of various sizes offsets and styles. but i know what i want so now im picky or get something a great price and sell it higher

'proper' to me is not 'proper' to you. its like cultural differences.

so i guess you and james are in cahoots? hahahaa..where'd james go? im waiting for his replies. he always comes back with something. tag team??

DuffMan

03-15-2003, 05:12 PM

Actually I have no idea what James has done to his car, last time I saw it it was stock. He posted in this thread about his wheels and what they cleared.

Is that even the same car James, did you paint it?

Got Sileighty?

03-15-2003, 07:29 PM

yessssssssss!!! in 8 words, dousan has managed to make this 3-page long argument worthless.

'proper' set up is of a personal opinion.

thats it, its over. in general, we buy wheels mostly on their looks anyway. all the details (offset, width, color....etc.) are just other factors, some maybe really important factors, but still just factors.

btw, why are high offset wheels labeled as fwd offsets? dont those cars have the same considerations as rwd cars? fwd car owners still get coilovers and big brakes, and such, dont they?

AKADriver

03-15-2003, 08:00 PM

Offsets and front/rear drive are just tradition...

Old RWD cars were usually 0 to +25
FWD cars are usually +40 to +50

But there are exceptions... The S2000 for one runs very high offset wheels, like +55 in the rear or something, and it's RWD.

In the case of our cars it's just that we have "extra" wheelwell space towards the outside that other cars don't, including the Accords, Preludes, and Altimas with which we share a bolt pattern. They're limited to 205mm tires on +40 wheels to fit, and that looks flush on those cars. But we have this extra space on the outside such that we can run slightly lower offset wheels and gain clearance for bigger tires.

My goal of whatever wheel upgrade I choose is to run a 225/50-16 while leaving my suspension/brake options as open as possible.. and like dousan said, it's all personal opinion.

I'm still deciding on wheels that'll fill that need. Keeping my suspension options open more or less guarantees that I'll need a lower than stock offset wheel...

chokudoriS13

03-15-2003, 09:24 PM

So, those are the same wheels Kenji at GSpeed had.... I love Longchamps.

Originally posted by dousan36
alright dude, i dont think you **** about me
i run -4 degrees neg camber always. why? i drift. a lot.

please READ what i post .secondly, three are EXTREMELY popular wheels in japan AND the USA. i was lucky to put them on hold cuz gspeed had 4 (four) people call RIGHT AFTER i did, ready to buy them too!!

actually its for my s13 and my next car. here's what they look like. if you dont drift, shut up because you dont know about how to set up a 'drift car' (alignments wise). no offense, but the ingorance on this thread is unbelieveable.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid53/p722d87304d29dceb747c48d931a5f56f/fc8c1572.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p947b00560ff5b97cb3ff24e2e3bf64d2/fc803972.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p7473f2d0aa7cc86f75e5ab210a0c13b4/fc803971.jpg
http://www.twelve100.com/images/title_headers/Title-Drift-Showoff.jpg

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by chokudoriS13
So, those are the same wheels Kenji at GSpeed had.... I love Longchamps.

YEP!!! those are the ones! i love them. SO CLEAN
i gotta clean them up tomorrow. just polish, no curb rash or bends. they are pristine perfect. i'll have them on for april 6th event!!

chokudoriS13

03-15-2003, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by dousan36
YEP!!! those are the ones! i love them. SO CLEAN
i gotta clean them up tomorrow. just polish, no curb rash or bends. they are pristine perfect. i'll have them on for april 6th event!!

I guess I'll see them then :D. I'll be a spectator at RSR, but will be driving for Drift Day 5 in May :D.

DoriftoSlut

03-15-2003, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by DuffMan
So proper wheels would be what? 20-30? Who the fuk cares? The SCC car cleared brakes and and coils with the wheels. If they had gone with something like 215/45 they wouldnt have needed the spacer at all.

Your wheels your setup. Great. Many setups work fine with so called FF wheels. Even if those setups include upgraded brakes and suspension. Examples are the SCC car, James' car, my car (even though the suspenson and brakes are stock there is room for both)

Hey! You! Yeah, I cannot take anything you say seriously now, b/c it is evident that you know nothing about wheels and offsets. With offset, it is ALWAYS required to list width, otherwise you know NOTHING about clearance/fit/looks. a +30 on 17x7 will be vastly different than 17x9.

SCC Ooohhh +43 with a 5mm spacer. Did you read the article closely. I believe they chose this arrangement b/c the wheels were given to them for FREE!!! You cannot be too choosy when Volk hooks you up with free CE28N's! You have to adapt. I bet if they could, they would have gone with a wider, lower offset wheel. :rolleyes:

Dousan and I always reccomend stuff to people with a grain of salt. Either we know who they are and their plans, or we make sure to enclose a disclaimer stating that drift setups are not best for daily driver.

Also, whats this about a drift set up wheels, etc... not being good for grip? Oh your stock suspension is? You guys are very ignorant to think drift is drift and grip is grip. they are very closely relateed, especially evident if you partake in both.:rolleyes:

Dousan_PG

03-15-2003, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by chokudoriS13
I guess I'll see them then :D. I'll be a spectator at RSR, but will be driving for Drift Day 5 in May :D.

RAD
see u there!

this thread is over. :)

AKADriver

03-15-2003, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
Also, whats this about a drift set up wheels, etc... not being good for grip? Oh your stock suspension is? You guys are very ignorant to think drift is drift and grip is grip. they are very closely relateed, especially evident if you partake in both.:rolleyes:

Well, noone I know that actually races a 240SX (or any car really) goes for the narrow tire on wide wheel thing that seems de rigeur for drift setups (and yes I do understand why it's done).

Like for my desired setup... I specifically want a 225/50-16 tire (good width, perfect height, common size, cheap replacement). I guarantee I'd run a much narrower wheel for that tire width than you would initially recommend. But my desires are just different. I don't need the sidewalls to be ultra stiff and responsive... I'd rather have a much lighter and cheaper narrow wheel.

DoriftoSlut

03-16-2003, 01:47 AM

You just mentioned two terms. That's not an argument. You even admitted that with really low offsets the effect is negative. I think something like +25 would be okay and not screw up stuff too much, but I would rather something like +35. Dousans wheels would just be crap.

Ok, I am sorry, but I have to reply to this statement. You talked about the 'negative effects' of low offset wheels in your argument. But you did not say what they were. SO I TOLD you what you were thinking about: scrub radius and bump steer (they also have a lot to do with camber settings). SO are you telling me not only do i need to state your argument, which you failed to do, but I need to elaborate, explain, and verify YOUR argument also? Hah.

Now, why do you keep listing offsets with no size? Why? +25, +35, +85, +12... on what wheel? 17x9 +25 will clear and fit the fronts, but 17x9 +35 will not w/o a spacer. SO you want +35 b/c you think its better? Uhh huh. ANd ooooh SCC has +43? Ok, lets get a 17x9 +43 wheel! That would probably not even fit on an S2K (inner clearance).

Dousan's wheels would be crap..... hmmmmmm. Have you ridden in Dousan's car? No? Ok, well take it from someone who has many times (street and track, drifting or daily driving), DOusan's wheel choice is fine and very educated. Unlike...... someone I am trying to enlighten. Have you nothing to say about your original arguments? (all 2 or 3 original guys?)

AKADriver: Agreed that my 215/45/17 on 9jj wheel is not optimal for grip, but I was talking more generally in terms of suspension rates, coilover models, wheels widths (even though some tire choices differ as well as staggering and psi etc...).

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 06:07 AM

Time to let it die. Let me sum things up in a way that's simple enough for you to understand.

If you want to run low offsets fine. If you want stretched tires and massive camber fine. Don't go arround telling other people to run them, because they might not be knowlegeable to see through your drifting-nazi hype.

God before now, I didn't understand why certain people in the 240sx community didn't accept drifting or the drifiting community. Now I can see why. Nice job guys.

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 08:18 AM

I NEVER TOLD PEOPLE WHAT TO RUN.
i made suggestions on buying the proper wheels for their cars!
drifting nazi? hahaha..yeah right. :rolleyes:

i made suggestions, but you guys decided to pick out the little things.

and duffman, when you give info on what magazines use on their car, give it all cuz that 5mm spacer is VERY important.

james, good for you on the wheels. the reason i say that people shouldnt buy FF wheels is because they wont clear many future upgrades. a lot of guys come on here asking should they get 17x7 +45 and using a 225 tire on it, or something and yeah it might look nice but, if they upgrade something at a later date they are screwed.

i dont know why you guys always gotta flame on and **** but i never pushed ANYTHIGN on anyone. and dufffman, i specifically told you:

**** your not listening. MY WHEELS FOR MY SETUPi said lower offset wheels to give good clearance to stuff. i didnt tell people "get 0 offset wheels"

if i did, please show me!!!!

i sadi get the proper wheels for your car, not FF wheels.

i guess i NEVER did say get low offset, so your 'drift nazi' idea is thrown out the window. good argument. :rolleyes:

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 09:28 AM

[i]Originally posted by dousan36
dont buy FF wheels unlesss you are poor or cant wait (emergency)

Look on the first page

Also I didnt mention the 5mm spacer because they didnt mention it in the first article about wheel choice. I hadn't recently read the 2nd article until after I posted. They didn't need it to fit the wheel on. They got it because they wanted a 225 wide tire which is going to bulge out on 17x7.5 and thats what contacted the coilover.

DoriftoSlut

03-16-2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Dousan
dont buy FF wheels unlesss you are poor or cant wait (emergency)

I fail to see where either Dousan and I said anything about reccomending a DRIFT setup. In fact I don't even think i said I drift. (I do, but I didn't say it on this thread, you guys either knew or assumed.) So anyway, I have no clue why you say we are telling people to drift. And i have seen tons of cars set up similarly to Dousans that are grip cars. Good offsets for our cars have nothing to do with "drifters"... :rolleyes: OK, if you guys can't see this concept, i give up.

Originally posted by DuffmanIf you want to run low offsets fine. If you want stretched tires and massive camber fine. Don't go arround telling other people to run them, because they might not be knowlegeable to see through your drifting-nazi hype.

And if you want to run high offset, narrow, ugly knock-off wheels on your stock suspension'd car go the **** ahead. But don't reccomend other people to run them, because they might not be knowledgeable enough to see through your jealous-poser-anti-drift-and-proper-sizing-nazi hype. :rolleyes:

God before now, I didn't understand why certain people in the 240sx community didn't accept drifting or the drifiting community. Now I can see why. Nice job guys.

WHERE DID WE TELL PEOPLE TO SET UP DRIFT CARS???? You are talking out of your ass. Dirfting's not accepted? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa the hell you talking about? Go to Drift Showoff, Drift Session, Drift Days, Speedtrials, Private Ikatens, Englishtown events, etc... Wait, let em guess... you are one of those posers who thinks sliding around a 90 degree curb in a WalMart parking lot constitutes drifting and the whole drifting scene. :rolleyes:
No. In fact... I hope you are right. I hope drifting never is "accepted" like yoiu say. b/c if it is accepted by the mainstream, we may get people like you coming out b/c you heard it was the cool thing to do. Newsflash: it already is like that! Sorry.

Oh ****, one more thing: Aaron and I are not "Drift Nazis", just "Anti poser Nazis" and "Stupid-people-suck Nazis".:p

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 10:56 AM

God there is a lot of back peddaling and utter bull**** in this thread.

Your entire post consists of putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. I never said dousan was recommending everyone setup their cars specificly for drift. He said he never told people what offsets to use on their cars and I posted the exact quote where he did.

I never recommended that people use ONLY high offset ONLY narrow ect. The only thing I've recommended in this thread is that people who are either very biased or very stupid stop spreading bull****.

I never said that drifting wasn't accepted, I said that some people don't accept it. So you want to keep it "underground" so you can continue to feel special and unique? ****ed off that super street brought a whole bunch of posers into your thing?

So your stradegy must be that by acting like a total asshole less people will want to get involved because they don't want to be arround people like you. Good for you.

Oh ****, one more thing: Aaron and I are not "Drift Nazis", just "Anti poser Nazis" and "Stupid-people-suck Nazis".

In that case hint: avoid mirrors

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by DuffMan

I never said that drifting wasn't accepted, I said that some people don't accept it. So you want to keep it "underground" so you can continue to feel special and unique? ****ed off that super street brought a whole bunch of posers into your thing?

first of all, not keeping it underground. i love the growth. gives more opportunities to go to the track. more events, more chances to KEEP IT OFF THE STREETS. oni is trying to setup a event in the midwest and they got the hyperfest going on, going 'mainstream' is great imho

dont make assumptions.

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 11:04 AM

Assumtion or deduction based on your actions.

DoriftoSlut

03-16-2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by DuffMan
God there is a lot of back peddaling and utter bull**** in this thread.

Your entire post consists of putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. I never said dousan was recommending everyone setup their cars specificly for drift. He said he never told people what offsets to use on their cars and I posted the exact quote where he did.

And I just posted where you said what you claim not to:

If you want to run low offsets fine. If you want stretched tires and massive camber fine. Don't go arround telling other people to run them, because they might not be knowlegeable to see through your drifting-nazi hype.

The only thing I've recommended in this thread is that people who are either very biased or very stupid stop spreading bull****.

Yeah so stop talking!

So your stradegy must be that by acting like a total asshole less people will want to get involved because they don't want to be arround people like you. Good for you.

If I keep people like YOU away, **** I guess I am doing something right. My first post was not asshole at all. Then you keep making arguments you can't back up and call people nazis and just b/c we know how to set up our cars and it is not what you WANT, you called us names. So expect the same thing back. Although I don't agree with him fully, at least James makes sense...

In that case hint: avoid mirrors

ROFL!!! Hahahahaha. Dude that's some funny ****! Oh man, that is classic.

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 11:07 AM

you ASSUMED i'm telling people to set it up for drift

you ASSUMED you think we want to keep it underground

you ASSUMED i would run my wheels sticking out my fenders (like hispanics-which i am, so technically i could do that too)

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by DuffMan
Time to let it die. Let me sum things up in a way that's simple enough for you to understand.

If you want to run low offsets fine. If you want stretched tires and massive camber fine. Don't go arround telling other people to run them, because they might not be knowlegeable to see through your drifting-nazi hype.

God before now, I didn't understand why certain people in the 240sx community didn't accept drifting or the drifiting community. Now I can see why. Nice job guys.

and duffman, your assumptions are getting ridiculous. im still waiitng for your reply on this. where did we say to setup others cars and strech tires in this thread? where did we tell people do to this????

i think your drifting hatred was brought up by your own personal opinion of drifting. i re-read this thread to find out where we said this but i find no place. please prove me wrong, if you can.

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 11:12 AM

the only one of those 3 things i ever even said was the 2nd one and that was only offered as a possibility based on your and dorifto's actions.

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 11:15 AM

look what i just quoted
looks like your 2 for 3

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by dousan36
and duffman, your assumptions are getting ridiculous. im still waiitng for your reply on this. where did we say to setup others cars and strech tires in this thread? where did we tell people do to this????
You didn't. You only specificly dictated offsets. Telling not to do something doesn't mean you have already done it.

i think your drifting hatred was brought up by your own personal opinion of drifting. i re-read this thread to find out where we said this but i find no place. please prove me wrong, if you can.
I don't hate drifting, ask oni.

I hate missinformation.

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by DuffMan
Dousan, I'm sorry but I think those wheels look crap. They look like those small wide wheels that people mostly of hispanic decent (no racial slur intended) put on all kinds of vehicles and they stick out.

i was thinking and saying..whaaat

duffman, guess what

your 3 for 3!!!

Congratulations!

http://kchousd.phpwebhosting.com/funny/stfu.jpg

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 11:23 AM

Once again, I was making an asthetic judgement of your wheels, and never claimed anything else. (the sentance starts off with I think...)

I said the wheels look like wheels that are run like that. I never said "i bet dousan will run them sticking out" If you are planning to run rolled fenders/widebody/whatever fine, I still think the wheels are ugly and that was all I was saying. It was the one and only OPINION i presented in this thread.

paradoxRPS13

03-16-2003, 11:24 AM

I have a set of WORK wheels. I believe they are 17 x 7.5 and 17 x 8. They are +47. Originally they were on a mazda luce. I go them for a decent price. The rears have 255/40/17 pirelli's on them. They fit nice. The fronts had 235/45/17...they did not want to fit. I need a spacer of some type. I need to also get different front tires since they want to hit the shocks. I know I have seen 235/45/17 on silvias and 180's in japan.
I need help from someone who knows what they are talking about on wheel sizes. I am determined to make these wheels work. I have different wheels in mind if I decide to drift this car (I have my ae86 for that anyway). I know 215's will fit, i do not want 215's. I was hoping 235's would fit but want as wide as I can fit under there (within reason, I do not want to go widebody). Thanks, and I have my flame suit ready to wear...
Gregg

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 11:31 AM

235's can fit on the front of a s13, you would need at least a 10mm spacer. 17ish mm would be the max you could push them out and be inside the fender.

235 is a bit wide for those wheels though, but within manufacturer's recommandations for most tires.

DoriftoSlut

03-16-2003, 11:33 AM

PERSONALLY, i would get a 20mm spacer for you. Those would then be at 27mm offset. This is NOT super flush, it is just giving you room to clear the stuff you need to. You an try 10mm, but i don't think that will work as well. But try 10mm first, and if not, put on another 5 or 10mm. You can fit 235's front.

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by DuffMan
Once again, I was making an asthetic judgement of your wheels, and never claimed anything else. (the sentance starts off with I think...)

I said the wheels look like wheels that are run like that. I never said "i bet dousan will run them sticking out" If you are planning to run rolled fenders/widebody/whatever fine, I still think the wheels are ugly and that was all I was saying. It was the one and only OPINION i presented in this thread.

reee-heeee-heeeeee-ly???

03-15-2003 12:38 PM
I'm sorry if that doesn't conform to your phat lip jdm nazi philosophy.

you opinion of my comments.

03-16-2003 05:07 AM
If you want stretched tires and massive camber fine. Don't go arround telling other people to run them, because they might not be knowlegeable to see through your drifting-nazi hype.

at no point did we tell people to run neg camber or stretched tires. dorifto said what HE did, not telling others to do it.i never told people to run neg camber or low offset, it was always 'proper FR offset wheels'

03-16-2003 09:56 AM
So you want to keep it "underground" so you can continue to feel special and unique? ****ed off that super street brought a whole bunch of posers into your thing?

your opinion again. we never said our thoughts on this.

So your stradegy must be that by acting like a total asshole less people will want to get involved because they don't want to be arround people like you. Good for you.

are you seeing a pattern? for a guy who claimed to have only 'one and only opinion' on this thread, its not working out to well.

http://www.thesimpsons.com/bios/images/bios_townspeople_apu.gif
THANK YOU COME AGAIN!

DoriftoSlut

03-16-2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by DuffMan
235's can fit on the front of a s13, you would need at least a 10mm spacer. 17ish mm would be the max you could push them out and be inside the fender.

235 is a bit wide for those wheels though, but within manufacturer's recommandations for most tires.

Where do you get the info that anything more will stick out his fenders? It most certainly should not stick past his fenders. Are you calculating offset without taking into account the wheel width?

A 17x7.5 with +27 offset will have 68.25mm of tire mounting surface between the hub and the end of the inside of the lip (inner bead... not the outside lip of the wheel). My R33 GTR's have 84.30mm of that surface between the hub and the inner bead. Ok, by the notion that these measurements are taken from the same places, they can then be applied to the relation of where the outer lip is loacted. Simple math dictates that the outside lip of my wheels (17x9 +30) is 16.05mm further towards the outside of the car. My wheels fit under my car. They CAN fit with 215, 225, 235, 245... So why shouldn't his? They will not stick out.

Duffman, since I owned you so many times do i get to rename you? Like an adopted cat?:rolleyes:

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 11:48 AM

http://home.no/nekholm/pics/funny/forumpics/owned14.jpg

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 11:56 AM

Dousan none of those things would classify as opinions. I'm sorry if your understanding of the English language doesn't allow you to comprehend this but I'm not interested in playing word games.

Dorifto fender clearance is based on a lot of things. The tires are wider than the wheels in this case in past "17ish" the tires will be further out than the fender. You may still have more room before there is actual fender contact, and with camber even more and with different suspension even more blah blah blah.

I stand by my statement on the relationship of the tire to the fender.

DoriftoSlut

03-16-2003, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by DuffMan

Dorifto fender clearance is based on a lot of things. The tires are wider than the wheels in this case in past "17ish" the tires will be further out than the fender. You may still have more room before there is actual fender contact, and with offset even more and with higher suspension even more blah blah blah.

I stand by my statement on the relationship of the tire to the fender.

I am a little confuse by your wording. You are telling me that even though I have wheels that stick out 16.05mm more than his (with one of my potential offsets), 3mm of difference between our reccomended offsets will make his tires hit the fender? Chit. I am NOT discussing looks, but he still has another 15mm spacer on top of my 20mm one to make his wheels sit like mine in relation to the fender. Am I telling him to do this? No. I am being conservative just like you guys want me to be. SO i still don't understand the point of this post? you tell Aaron to learn english and the definition of "opinions" yet you can't form coherent sentences. :rolleyes: I'm not flaming, but can you re-word it so I can understand what you are saying.

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 12:09 PM

oh need more help?

it was of your opinion that i force people into my 'jdm nazi philosophy'

it was of your opinion that dorifto180sx tells people to run stretched tires. which he doesnt and you havent been able to back up your comment that:

Don't go arround telling other people to run them, because they might not be knowlegeable to see through your drifting-nazi hype.

it was of your opinion that we want to keep drifting underground. which we didnt say we did, and you havent been able to show WHERE we said we wanted that.

your opinion that i acting like " a total asshole less people will want to get involved because they don't want to be arround people like you. Good for you."

those are opinions

http://www.m-w.com/home.htm
Merriam-Webster Online dictionary says:

Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: &-'pin-y&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
Date: 14th century
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

you: judged my thoughts on drifting and undground
you: appraised my words and formed your mind about how i run my 15x7.5 +5 (sticking outside fender)
you: said dorifto tells poeple to run stretched tires withough any reasons or quotes made by him to base this comment on

you have opinions. opinions. your thoughts, with no evidence to back it up. you called names, you made assumtions without knowing the facts or backing any of your comments up

you also avoided my old question to you, where did i tell people to run low offsets? need to know where you said that? oh my pleasure:

03-16-2003 05:07 AM
If you want to run low offsets fine. If you want stretched tires and massive camber fine. Don't go arround telling other people to run them, because they might not be knowlegeable to see through your drifting-nazi hype.

show me where i told people to run low offsets

so it is of your opinion i told them to run low offsets and massive camber. where? i must have missed when i said that. please disprove this comment.

quit dreaming up stuff.
post when you have solid info that i did such things, until then keep your thoughts and opinions and perceptions to yourself

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 12:12 PM

Why are you even talking about wheel widths? Wheels dont contact fenders, tires do. I don't think think 20mm would necessarily contact the fender but it would be the point where the the edge of the tire would be fartherout out than the inner lip of the fender.

paradoxRPS13

03-16-2003, 12:16 PM

Actually I think the wheels are 7.5 and 8 or 8.5 wide, i need to have someone look...I am not at that location now. So, I need a 10mm spacer for 225's? would 225/45/17 be the right ones to get? Thanks.

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by dousan36

show me where i told people to run low offsets

You need to pay attention, I did this somewhere back on page 3.

None of those things are opinions. You are inferring my supposed opionions (and often doing so wrongly) from the descriptive words I am using. If you want to play word games, then I'm going to be literal.

DoriftoSlut

03-16-2003, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by DuffMan
Why are you even talking about wheel widths? Wheels dont contact fenders, tires do. I don't think think 20mm would necessarily contact the fender but it would be the point where the the edge of the tire would be fartherout out than the inner lip of the fender.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p42fde7335e4fc40ea3ee9310277dc208/fc7f201f.jpg

We are talking about wheel widths b/c offset situates the wheels differently depending on their width. AGAIN: Offset needs to be talked baout with Wheel WIDTH! 17x9 +30 OBVIOUSLY has different clearance and fitment issues than a 17x7 +30. It is evident to me that you do not know this. DO you play chess without knowing the rules? :rolleyes:

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by DuffMan
You need to pay attention, I did this somewhere back on page 3.

None of those things are opinions. You are inferring my supposed opionions (and often doing so wrongly) from the descriptive words I am using. If you want to play word games, then I'm going to be literal.

no..i read all the pages and nowhere did you say i told people to run low offset. quote it.

and you still put your personal opinion of what dorifto and i think and your opinion of what we think of drifting without the facts.

no facts, yet base your views on it=your opinion

you based further comments on our setups thinking they were for other people to use. you failed to see it was for OUR cars (stretched tires, low offsets, camber-ven though we said "i" "my car" etc). instead you ASSUMED and felt it was for everyone.

drift nazis? nah, just giving our advice about buying proper wheels for a car.

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 12:24 PM

So different width will shift the center of the tire left or right? Explain how this is so.

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 12:26 PM

n/m that doesnt work because there are no nested quotes

DuffMan

03-16-2003, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by dousan36

dont buy FF wheels unlesss you are poor or cant wait (emergency)

Dousan_PG

03-16-2003, 12:28 PM

exactly
my only comment on the first page ones (and i quote)

i am too tired lazy and could really care lesss

dont buy FF wheels unlesss you are poor or cant wait (emergency)

spacers are safe if you set them up properly

i have bolt on spacers on the front. i retorque them monthly for my safety.

i dont like the longer stud/spacer stuff but lot suse it so i guess its ok. its your call

offsets? who cares? spacesr, rolled fenders, flares and negative camber fix all of my problems

buy the proper wheels for your car. nitekids is right i agree but not how he posts it but he knows whats up.

ff wheels are for pussies. flame me. i could care less. im more then pleased spending 980 on some f'in sick full set of Longchamp XR-4 15x7.5 +5 which are 100% pristine brand new condition and one year old!

kiss my grits, NOOOOOCH

no where in this entire thread did i tell people to run low offsets and camber

stop assuming