AAHH I really need some help from you engine/tunning buffs!

[beyondstock]

Ok, so I gave my sr20det redtop a make over with some new gauges, cleaned the engine bay up, catch can, dif fan controller, regrounded MAF, and of course NISTUNE type 2 board with tuning program and so forth.

I get the car started today and get it running decent, enough to check timing and to have it idle on its own. I dont really know what size my injectors are however I have it set at 550cc with my constant at 29000 and injector latency at 770.

The car idles ok but it jumps from 14-15.5 and if I slightly give it gas (like you was trying to hold it at 1500 RPM its off the gauge lean. The car only sees a rich side when I tap the gas pedal to rev it to 3K. I dont know what else to look for.

I have regrounded MAF (getting a reading of .90-1.2 at idle and I have seen it go to 2.8 if I rev it to 3k)
Check TPS at .46 fully open at 5V
New coolant sensor
blocked off IACV
checked all IC piping (actually took it off and back on and double check the fitting of the piping)
New CAS
New spark plugs
Timing set at 15
Fuel pressure regulator set at 41psi
Checked all vac lines (90% are brand new)

Can a vac. leak cause the car to have this symptom? I really screwed up by doing all this at the same time. Now I cant trace the problem down...

I may have installed the oil catch can in the wrong place. I thought it was supposed to go from the fitting on the back right side of the valve cover to the can and then back to intake mani. but I've been reading about people installing the oil catch can on the right side of the motor to another fitting on the block I believe....

[slider2828]

Man you really sound like you have no idea what you are doing...

Catch is from back to catch to valve cover T and then front T to intake manifold...

Yes Vac leak can do this. Fuel pressure should be 43 without vacuum, so that is 38psi. Also how the fuck do you not know what size your injectors are... You are asking to blow your motor... Figure that out first...

[beyondstock]

hahahaha ok.... I dont know what my injectors are because I bought the car (in project stage) and there is a lot of shit on it that was on it when I got it so I'm working through the bugs!! They are brick red but I have found that some stock injectors came red and 440s are brick red. And with nistune you dont really HAVE to know what size your injectors are as I can just adjust my Constant (K) value with changing injector sizes and once I get it on a setting that runs the best I then change the K value to better the a/f ratio. There are other things to change to get the car running better.

my Catch Can is running from my valve cover to the can and to the front of my intake manifold.

And no I'm not looking to blow my motor because I'm at idle with no load, so please understand its not going to blow at this moment....



http://www.bee.net/a2low240/gauges/Matt4.jpg

Here you can see the catch can is running from a line on the ride side of the engine (this line on my SR20 is just open to the atmospher) but if you look on the opposite side (back right of motor) you can see the line coming out of the valve cover. This is where I installed mine. Either way I dont see this causing a problem because its still circulation back the the intake but maybe its in the wrong location...

[beyondstock]

Also what is a normal operating range of the MAF? I'm wondering if thats not my problem as I took it off to clean it...

[slider2828]

Ok on a nistune you can adjust it with a K Constant, but you are still guessing and its like a shot in the dark. They also look like its top feed so its going to be hard to guess unless you pull them and match them on the internet.

Well if you just running at idle there is load, its just low load, but if you are revving the motor at stop, it can still cause damage to the motor.

Also you didn't specify what you had, you just said redtop, so why didn't you post your picture first and ask questions later?

Also asking for maf voltage, you have to tell us what maf? n62 I assume?

[beyondstock]

Yes N62, and the picture I posted isnt my sr20. I was using that as a reference how I've seen everyone uses the T on the valve cover there for the routing of the Catch can but I have my can on the PCV on the back right side of the motor. As you can see in the picture I posted he has nothing installed there. I've read it just goes to a nipple on the Intake mani. I see more oil travel through this line from the valve cover than I do from the line on the right side of the valve cover.

I can pull the injectors off but the problem is there wont be any marking on them and I doubt I will be able to match them up. I have thought about sending them to RC engineering to get them cleaned and determine what flow rate they are...

And regardless of what injectors you have. Say 770cc injectors. On nistun you change the flow rate of the injectors from 370 to 770 which gives you a different K value. BUT you still have to adjust the Kvalue for each car as every car has different settings....

I have an N62 MAF and have performed the standard reading for ground side and for signal wire side both at the MAF and the ECU. But lets say I give the engine a quick tap I can see it raise to 2.3V I'm wondering what voltage readings I should see.

I read on another forum of someone have the same symptoms and found that the coolant temp sensor was the culprit. But mine is new and acts the same cold or hot.

[slider2828]

N62 at Idle is about 1.10V Top end, dunno depends on car. But for about a 300HP car with a 2871R close to 4.2.....

As per the catch can, wouldn't make a difference how its routed, shouldn't mess with the car's idle...

How can you check timing if the afr, which means the idle is jumping around?

[DDSR240]

They also look like its top feed so its going to be hard to guess unless you pull them and match them on the internet.

n62 I assume?[/quote]
duh that can't be his car it runs off a map sensor:smash:

[beyondstock]

haha yeah that car is hot but not mine.

yeah I'm seeing .9-1.1V at idle. And my idle isnt jumping bad like 850-900.

AF isnt very stable though (14-15.3 or so). I have the O2 Sensor turned off as well as knock maps.

The major problem is seen when you barely touch the gas pedal trying to hold it in a stationary position. Then it runs VVEEERRRRY lean (above 17) but if I tap the pedal I will see AF numbers lower....

A couple things I'm wondering is the problem are as follows:

I blocked the hose on the Cold pipe going to the IACV and the other side I blocked off on the IACV.

My 12V signal for the MAF is soldered into the CAS's 12v source (I got it this way)

I'm seeing 6mv on ground side of CAS (however I ran a line straight from the body to the CAS and found no change)

I have BOTH ground wires on my N62 grounded to the body (found the ground signal from the ECU (when hooked up) almost kills the motor.

I dont want to drive the car until I can find the problem. I will AGAIN check vac lines and make a pressure tester for my IC piping (but I highly doubt my problem is there)

I have 50$ for the person who can figure out what the hell my problem is! lol

And RIGHT after I rev it a couple of times the AFR levels out to 14.7 and holds there for a while so I can check timing. I have also pulled the Valve cover to make sure my NEW CAS was timed correctly.

[slider2828]

That's not even his car...... So its stupid to post pictures of a car that is not his... hence its not going to help us talk about his problems....

[beyondstock]

WTF are you retarded or just dumb man? I posted the picture to SHOW you, hold on, SHOW YOU where MOST people install their catch cans. HOWEVER I have installed mine inline with the PCV valve from the Valve cover (back right side for the 4th time) to the catch can and then to the intake mani. But no matter where I put it it shouldnt matter as its just a source of catching oil....

[beyondstock]

And why would you post a pic in your avatar of a car that isnt yours? Thats like putting an engagement ring on your friends wife. Just doesnt work cause everyone knows shes not yours bro!!

[beyondstock]

anyway,
does anyone have any advice?

[racepar1]

Jesus! You are having TUNING issues and you don't know the flow rate of your injectors, which happens to be critical to TUNING.

1-pull your head out of your ass
2-find out what your injectors are for SURE
3-have the car tuned by a PEOFESSIONAL

Tuning is not something you want to screw around with in your garage or whatever, ESPECIALLY on a turbocharged motor, You can burn that motor to the ground in a matter of seconds if it goes lean. Spend your money wisely and get a professional to tune your car. You are clearly chasing your tail here and have no idea what is going on.

[beyondstock]

So let me ask you this. My car is running poorly. I take it to a tuning shop because "I feel like I dont know what I'm doing" and rely on then to fix it. However, a tuning shop "TUNES" your car. This is what a lot of people do, they think a tune will fix whats wrong so they take it to a shop. So now I am dependent on a tuning shop to fix my problem and then tune it. The injectors are not my problem. The injectors have ZERO direct effect on tuning capabilities of Nistune for it only uses the "K constant" as a determinent as to what pulse width to allow for the injectors. The car runs right while at idle minus the fact my af ratio is slightly off (which I can tune a little more to correct properly) and under acceleration/load it does good. So this is not simply a tuning issue. yes the car is not tuned but its not going to blow sitting in my shop at 14.7. I'm simply talking about the stubling and sputting with slight throttle increasment.

Come on guys, you all want to hate on me and I'm one of the few taking the whole project on myself. SHIT if I blow the motor at least I will learn what I did wrong and I no longer have to rely on someone else to fix my car. If I didnt know what I was doing then how could I give you specifics on the exact tests conducted and the results along with what paramiters I'm running and what I have changed?

Have you used nistune? Its really nice, lets say you change the injectors from factory (370) to say 550cc. The K value changes to 32000, if you change it to 440s you will see a K value of 2600. But I can change the K value myself untill I see AFRs in the right parmiters then I slightly adjust my Injector latency to adjust the AFR correctly.

I will pull the injectors and "try" to match them up. Probably send them to RC engineering to have them flow tested and cleaned

I'm going to again check compression and peform a leak down test.

[s14unimog]

This is an interesting problem you have here. I recently have undertaken a similar project and am running the Nistune system myself. My symptoms are odd; after putting about 350 miles on my current tune (left over from my last engine) I'm suddenly dumping a decent amount of fuel on decel (like 9, 10:1 around there) and can't seem to find the problem. I've done everything you have mentioned already, besides the compression/leak down test, and haven't remedied the problem. I've replaced my ECU coolant temp sensor, checked the PCV, brand new IACV, checked injectors for leaks, checked base fuel pressure (43psi), new wideband sensor, check voltage readings across the MAFS (N62), checked base timing, check TPS voltage, pressure tested my charge system (fixed all leaks), checked ignitor, and replaced and gaped plugs. Since I have almost ran out of things to check, all my buddies keep pushing me to go ahead a get tuned. But as you said, it doesn't make sense to go to the dyno with a known problem and HOPE it will be cleared up on the dyno... One thing I have thought about is what if the Nistune has some software issues? I know that's a pretty bold accusation but I've heard of older AMS systems losing perimeters for no apparent reason....

Have you done the most recent updates from Nistune? I know that the latest ROM pack update requires you to uninstall the previous ROM pack before you install. Also, the latest version of Nistune has unlocked even more settings (maxing out their values if unadjusted), dealing with some ignition perimeters, and has been known to pop igniters if not corrected. I did a "compare" over the stock RPS13 base map and corrected those on mine but I'm still mulling over this problem....

I would be really interested to know what you issue is, once you figure it out. I hope some of my input has inspired new thought...

[slider2828]

why not just talk to 4x4le message him

[s14unimog]

^ lol, I've got Brandon's number. We're both stumped on my car...

[slider2828]

Oh wellz..... Glad I went APFC....

[s14unimog]

Oh wellz..... Glad I went APFC....

and paid twice as much... They both do the same shit, except you've got a fancy commander, which is about as useful as a SAFC on "monitor". I'm not saying the Nistune is a fault here, I'm just running out of things to test for.

[slider2828]

Come on I got a DJetro for 850 shipped....

Lol nistune + software license, + board... was like $650.... Headaches like yours.... Priceless..... I got my car up and running immediately.... swapped ecus... All done

Sell ecu for $100 bux.... already set and go.

Commander has 8 inputs? What really? Lol How is that useless? Water temp, Air temp, injector duty cycle, PIM voltage for load, timing, RPM and so on.... also commander can adjust all functions on the ecu?.... if you know nothign then shut up.... (built-in MAP sensor)

what does Nistune have? Nothing... What I gotta plug in a laptop then I gotta buy the software.... Now I need all these gauges?.... please go home. What I am stuck with MAFS

[s14unimog]

^ hey not bad... but we should stay on topic here...

[racepar1]

So let me ask you this. My car is running poorly. I take it to a tuning shop because "I feel like I dont know what I'm doing" and rely on then to fix it. However, a tuning shop "TUNES" your car. This is what a lot of people do, they think a tune will fix whats wrong so they take it to a shop. So now I am dependent on a tuning shop to fix my problem and then tune it. The injectors are not my problem. The injectors have ZERO direct effect on tuning capabilities of Nistune for it only uses the "K constant" as a determinent as to what pulse width to allow for the injectors. The car runs right while at idle minus the fact my af ratio is slightly off (which I can tune a little more to correct properly) and under acceleration/load it does good. So this is not simply a tuning issue. yes the car is not tuned but its not going to blow sitting in my shop at 14.7. I'm simply talking about the stubling and sputting with slight throttle increasment.

Come on guys, you all want to hate on me and I'm one of the few taking the whole project on myself. SHIT if I blow the motor at least I will learn what I did wrong and I no longer have to rely on someone else to fix my car. If I didnt know what I was doing then how could I give you specifics on the exact tests conducted and the results along with what paramiters I'm running and what I have changed?

Have you used nistune? Its really nice, lets say you change the injectors from factory (370) to say 550cc. The K value changes to 32000, if you change it to 440s you will see a K value of 2600. But I can change the K value myself untill I see AFRs in the right parmiters then I slightly adjust my Injector latency to adjust the AFR correctly.

I will pull the injectors and "try" to match them up. Probably send them to RC engineering to have them flow tested and cleaned

I'm going to again check compression and peform a leak down test.

I'm not telling you to go to a shop for every little problem. I'm telling you to go to a tuning shop to get the engine tuned INITIALLY. Once the maps are close to right you can take it from there and troubleshoot any driveability issues that may come up over time yourself. It is a bad idea to do the initial tune on your engine without knowing everything about what you have on the car or without knowing EXACTLY what you are doing.

[slider2828]

^ hey not bad... but we should stay on topic here...

Trust me I did my homework..... on Nistunes and I knew about them before they were hot on this forum as its been used in Australia for awhile now.

[s14unimog]

I'm not telling you to go to a shop for every little problem. I'm telling you to go to a tuning shop to get the engine tuned INITIALLY. Once the maps are close to right you can take it from there and troubleshoot any driveability issues that may come up over time yourself. It is a bad idea to do the initial tune on your engine without knowing everything about what you have on the car or without knowing EXACTLY what you are doing.

Those are good words... But it still doesn't mean that you won't be tuning over a problem...

Trust me I did my homework..... on Nistunes and I knew about them before they were hot on this forum as its been used in Australia for awhile now.

Awesome, you beat the crowd and so did I. So tell me, what exactly was the determining factor that sent you to Apexi?

just curious at this point...:squint:

[beyondstock]

why not just talk to 4x4le message him

Brandons the one that sold me the nistune setup so I have his number and aim we touch basis often.

I can get my maps pretty close to what I feel is ready for streetability. I have a few JIM Wolf tunes and Enth. Tunes and I've noticed there isnt a whole lot they are doing themselves... Basicly they adjust their K value for what injectors they have, and richen up the map before load and retard the timing a few degrees. But yes I plan on playing around with the paramiters until I get confortable with my own tune then I'm going to hit the dyno to play around with my timing...

The ONLY thing I'm unsure of is what injectors i have because the guy said 550cc. but 550cc doesnt come in red. I've found brick red is 440 and RB has a set of 770cc thats red and there is an oem replacement that is 370cc thats red...

s14unimog did you check your crank adv decel and accel?

I'm lost on what to check for myself. I keep wishing I could find a simple vac leak or something.

Brandon is going to come on here and trash everyone hating on his nistune lol

[slider2828]

Brandons the one that sold me the nistune setup so I have his number and aim we touch basis often.

I can get my maps pretty close to what I feel is ready for streetability. I have a few JIM Wolf tunes and Enth. Tunes and I've noticed there isnt a whole lot they are doing themselves... Basicly they adjust their K value for what injectors they have, and richen up the map before load and retard the timing a few degrees. But yes I plan on playing around with the paramiters until I get confortable with my own tune then I'm going to hit the dyno to play around with my timing...

The ONLY thing I'm unsure of is what injectors i have because the guy said 550cc. but 550cc doesnt come in red. I've found brick red is 440 and RB has a set of 770cc thats red and there is an oem replacement that is 370cc thats red...

s14unimog did you check your crank adv decel and accel?

I'm lost on what to check for myself. I keep wishing I could find a simple vac leak or something.

Brandon is going to come on here and trash everyone hating on his nistune lol

Well personally based on what SteveShadows thinks, injector sizing shouldn't #1 be arbitrary and #2 based on injector sizing, it can affect the tune on it. I believe redtop side feeds usually are 270's KA's, rebased 540's, and maybe 740's but that is so wide range, I would so not guess. Send it for check or cleaning. Done.... Don't guess not worth your time or motor....


Those are good words... But it still doesn't mean that you won't be tuning over a problem...



Awesome, you beat the crowd and so did I. So tell me, what exactly was the determining factor that sent you to Apexi?

just curious at this point...:squint:

Simple, sold out..... They are sold out of the SR20DET redtop boards, had to ship my stuff to Australia to get it done. With shipping, + a close tune from the people there, with daughter board, tuning software, etc etc, it added up to about $650 + shipping from aussie to get everything set....

Saw a deal PowerFC D-Jetro with 6 hours of use, warranty and MAP sensor and anything else I needed with a tune that I could drive and boost on immediately cause the original owner had a disco potato, so it was close....

I still don't think there are any boards left either, but I think I made the right choice looking back cause the commander really displays a LOT. I was more than impressed with Load cell logging too.... Nistune not so much...

[s14unimog]

^ you came back and edited your post, sneaky bit*h. I never said the commander was useless, I said that its about as convenient as an SAFC on monitor. First off the screen is too small to tune off of and secondly whats with that interface, I've seen calculators with more interesting screens than that. I'm not going to hate on the system b/c I know its great, but it now seems you bought yours b/c it was simpler; which makes sense for your application. I settled on the Nistune system b/c I got it through a car purchase, so I didn't exactly compare the two and then purchase. If you were really into tuning the car yourself, I'm sure you have the commander Pro software and pull a laptop out on the dyno...
beyondstock,

I want to say those values are set to stock, but I can't remember off hand. I did a compare map a few weeks back with the stock map and reset all the new adjustment perimeters; I think I did those as well. I hear you on the vacuum leak, I pressure tested my system and found my intake manifold to be leaking at the flange. I thought for sure that was my problem, but that's not the case. This shit can be so exhausting...

[beyondstock]

Yeah I'm thinking I have unmetered air intering the system somewhere myself. In my case I have a greddy intake manifold and I catch my dumbass leaning on it working on my car (damn this is so big it just seems natural lol) so I need to pressure check and make sure I didnt seperate it somewhere myself. The car ran when I bought it but it didnt have an A/F gauge and it car would die on deceleration when upon idle. If I kept it running the RPMs would jump around (sounds like IACV to me.) But that was just 1 of about 20 things I had to fix and now I'm stuck with this small but hard to find problem...

[slider2828]

^ you came back and edited your post, sneaky bit*h. I never said the commander was useless, I said that its about as convenient as an SAFC on monitor. First off the screen is too small to tune off of and secondly whats with that interface, I've seen calculators with more interesting screens than that. I'm not going to hate on the system b/c I know its great, but it now seems you bought yours b/c it was simpler; which makes sense for your application. I settled on the Nistune system b/c I got it through a car purchase, so I didn't exactly compare the two and then purchase. If you were really into tuning the car yourself, I'm sure you have the commander Pro software and pull a laptop out on the dyno...
beyondstock,

I want to say those values are set to stock, but I can't remember off hand. I did a compare map a few weeks back with the stock map and reset all the new adjustment perimeters; I think I did those as well. I hear you on the vacuum leak, I pressure tested my system and found my intake manifold to be leaking at the flange. I thought for sure that was my problem, but that's not the case. This shit can be so exhausting...

Huh? I didn't edit my first post....

Weird..... Mine I bought used and the guy had a MAP tuned from G Dimensions, which was just blah... If possible forgot what area you live in, but have steveshadows help you out.... if you can bring your car in.

[beyondstock]

Steve Shadows?

JGY's shop is about 2 hours from me. I might take the car there and see if I cant get a hand from someone thats been in the game for a while...

[s14unimog]

I hear ya on the un-metered air thought. I have the same concern with my manifold and found the flange on the runners to be leaking at the head. Maybe that's your problem. I doubt leaning on it will hurt it, they are pretty solid castings...

Isn't Steve Shadows in California. I would love to have someone like that check mine out, but I'm based in Georgia so there isn't THAT much around here... unfortunately

this is what my setup is like...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/s14unimog/Enginebayshots004.jpg

[slider2828]

Yah damn, sorry east coasters.....

[s14unimog]

Yah damn, sorry east coasters.....

:jerkit:

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