Subframe Mania - feel free to join in

[ixfxi]

I've got the subframe out and figure I would make a separate post about this since my combined topics dont get much attention.

I am trying to see what people suggest when it comes to either modifying the S13 subframe or possibly upgrading to the S15 subframe. I've read some of the comments about how the S15 subframe is stronger and has more travel. Its also wider but with my widebody setup, this is not much of a concern/benefit. The main thing I dont like about the S15 subframe is that I have to use offset solid aluminum bushings which I am against. I canyon the car a lot and dont want something that is a complete nuisance to drive (partial nuisance is ok).

The main thing I am after is adding some stiffening to the S13 subframe before I powdercoat the bitch silver and replace the bushings with the nismo bushings I picked up. I want the bottom of my car to look clean.

Anyway, feel free to post up pics and opinions. If anyone has any suggestions where to reinforce, please post pics and contribute.

[ixfxi]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/StevenDawson/IMG_1718.jpg

by the way, i believe this is an s15 subframe (quick search) but not 100% sure, was hoping someone could please verify.

note: if that is indeed an S15 subframe, then I guess I could use the Z32 diff bushing I still have. I am using a Z32 NA LSD w/ S13 rear diff cover.

[INeedNewTires]

you should check out the fabrication thread, a dude boxed in his subframe there. I've never seen an S15 subframe but you can probably find an s14 subframe pretty easy and their stronger than the s13 TMK

[PinkPanther]

maybe you should fix the hole in that engine block first

[sac]

I am probably boxing in my subframe this weekend.. If i get it done i will post up pics.

How did you get that hole in block?
looks like one i got when a rod bolt snapped at around 7000rpm.

[ixfxi]

maybe you should fix the hole in that engine block first


or maybe fix the hole in your head first.



seriously, sometimes reading is just too difficult for people. i found that image via google image search, hence the reason i am asking people to post up pics of their subframes. if i had an s15 subframe sitting pretty in my garage, ide be out measuring and contemplating, not jerking around online. ;-)

oh well, back to jerking around............ online. ha

[wisDOMination]

just wondering, is there any reason as to why you went with the nismo bushing set, rather than the es pineapple bushings?
im in the market for some subframe bushings but can't choose
and you seem to be on the same boat as me, where solid aluminum bushings are out of the question

[Koopa Troopa]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/StevenDawson/IMG_1718.jpg

by the way, i believe this is an s15 subframe (quick search) but not 100% sure, was hoping someone could please verify.


I'm going to say yes. That's an S14 subframe and all the S15 subframe is just a reinforced 14 subframe. I'm guessing the boxing in the rear is the added reinforcement.

As for the solid bushings. You can have added drive train noise and vibrations and a stronger rear subframe or you can have a weaker rear subframe and enjoy your old man car.

I'm going to go ahead and say the added benefits of having the beefier subframe won't outweigh the cons of having the solid bushings in your eyes as you could prolly care less.

[travypoo]

a few days ago i started working on my sub frame. boxed in all the suspension arm tabs. welded up any holes or missed welds. also doing full rear multi, solid frame bushings, tomei t trax, s14 5 lug etc etc. these are just pics of what i have done so far, still have a bunch of welding to get done.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/travypoo/Picture112.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/travypoo/Picture113.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/travypoo/Picture114.jpg

[singlecamslam]

I really dont think that doing all that is really beneficial. I think you should just go with some solid SPL bushings and thats all i would do to the subframe. Just my opinion. On a different not, if i smack a curb at 20MPH with the side of my front tire, do you guys think thats enough force to bend the xbember? I know my control arms and stuff is bent, and i wont be able to work on my car for a few months, so wont know for sure till than.

[repda916]

i heard the sub frame is made in a way to where if you hit a curb or what ever, it bends the sub frame it self. if you make it a solid piece (beefy) you will bend the cars unibody. any idea or anyone heard the same?

[drifter_for_life06]

^^^^^you'd probably have to weld the subframe to the unibody to achieve that....ive seen plenty of people trash the rear ends of their car and the body stayed straight....only 2 people i know have wrecked with a modified subframe, and the body was still fine...unibody that is, body panels were toast

[Koopa Troopa]

i heard the sub frame is made in a way to where if you hit a curb or what ever, it bends the sub frame it self. if you make it a solid piece (beefy) you will bend the cars unibody. any idea or anyone heard the same?

I want to see something bend a sub frame... That'd be amazing. Arms are designed to snap so that the frame they're attached to doesn't bend.

[Om1kron]

I want to see something bend a sub frame... That'd be amazing. Arms are designed to snap so that the frame they're attached to doesn't bend.

and when they snap... it sucks. =(

[Koopa Troopa]

and when they snap... it sucks. =(


It sucks when they don't snap cause then I gotta buy a new Alto Works.... :doh:

[ManoNegra]

I have SPL solid subframe and diff bushings on my S14
ride quality isn't bad imo,
only thing that bugs me is the diff chatter
if I were to do it again, I'd just leave the diff bushings alone or replace those with Nismo ones

What really is the benefit of a boxed/modified subframe?
Maybe for high HP cars?

Aaron had the S15 fitted onto his first S13
IIRC he said the gains were not significant
maybe he'll chime in

There's also a thread on NRR that discusses the differences
in arms travel between S13 and S14 subframes that may be worth a check

Playing with S14 subframe - Nissan Road Racing Forums (http://nissanroadracing.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=543&highlight=subframes)

[Om1kron]

It sucks when they don't snap cause then I gotta buy a new Alto Works.... :doh:

Well at least it's not a honda subframe... LOL! Those are a part of the car.

[projectRDM]

maybe you should fix the hole in that engine block first

Fucking idiot. Might ask the owner of the picture instead, he'd probably have a better answer.


As for the subframe, boxing the arm points in is a very good idea, the few I've seen that have sustained damage simply had the mounting points tear off, especially the Aarm staunches. Once torn off it's hard to get it realigned just right again. Making it stronger would put more of the crash energy into the arm itself which is easily replaced.

[ixfxi]

just wondering, is there any reason as to why you went with the nismo bushing set, rather than the es pineapple bushings?


I already own polyurethane bushings for all of the arms and knuckles on my S13. after several years of use, I have decided that they werent compliant enough. Obviously they are cost-effective and eliminate the slop from a 15-20 year old car, but they dont necessarily resolve the problem in a very effective manner. I vividly recall the drive being enjoyable in the canyons but horrible on the highway. And no, its not my suspension because the whiteline coilovers are very compliant.

Someone posted this link several months ago, and I agree in the overall principle:
ELEPHANT RACING Tech Topic, Polyurethane Bushings and Friction (http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic/polyurethanefriction.htm)

With that said, I decided to replace all of the polyurethane bushings with nismo bushings. I am also considering buying solid adjustable arms and experimenting with them. If they are too stiff and annoying for street use I will put them up for sale.

I am just tired of seeing people spend money without actually testing the before/after effects of their modifications. Too many people think that just because they spent X amount of dollars, that their new purchase is indeed and upgrade. Certainly a solid bushing or even a urethane bushing is fine for race use, but for any car that will still be a street car - things need to be a bit more realistic.

http://www.clearcorners.com/temp/subframe0.jpg

I found the above subframe pic and love the silver color, plus the frame looks like its had some reinforcement done to it. Anyway, I'm still researching my options.

[Teambadrun]

You can't use S13 lower arms or diff cover if you use S14,15 subframe

you need to use the s14,15 diff cover because its 2 bolt... and the lower arms are differnt....
and make sure you use s13 camber arms if its in a s13 car..

[Om1kron]

I think vaughn4 recently boxed his subframe up. let me head over to shit alloy to dig up his posts.

[drifter_for_life06]

ixfxi, are the nismo bushings you are using available through Nissan dealers?

[Om1kron]

no pictures of the process... but you can see some gusseted plate added and welds all along the seams.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/level7motorsports/JESSE006.jpg

[projectRDM]

ixfxi, are the nismo bushings you are using available through Nissan dealers?

They're a Nissan part, why would they not be?

As for the S13 Aarms, you can use them on an S14/S15 subframe, you just shim the bushing on either side a bit, the mounting staunches are further apart but that's it. I've done it a few times before.

[ixfxi]

http://www.courtesyparts.com/images/z32/z32_431-1.gif

another question... maybe russ will know.

I am running a Z32 LSD and the bushings at the front nose were fucked pretty bad. In the above pic, item #55471M appears to be a structural support for the diff nose, is this correct and if so, is this necessary?

To bolt on the S13, it just uses some basic bolt + washer mounting hardware. The Z32 however appears to use a large structural support, is this correct? Does anyone have a pic of a stock 300ZX undercarriage showing how it bolts on?

Any ideas?

[racepar1]

Mike! Use an s-14 rear subframe. It's the same as the s-15 just not quite as strong. The s-14/s-15 subframes have better geometry, less anti-squat and a flatter toe curve. Just seam weld it and box in the suspension mounts, that's what I am going to do. I believe tougefactory sells solid offset bushings for putting the s-14 and s-15 frames into s-13's. The mounts are 10mm wider on the s-14/s-15 frames. The only problem is that the subframe hits the floor on the top of the front diff mounting hoop. You,ve gotta bust out the BFH and a pry bar there.

[ixfxi]

Mike! Use an s-14 rear subframe. It's the same as the s-15 just not quite as strong. The s-14/s-15 subframes have better geometry, less anti-squat and a flatter toe curve. Just seam weld it and box in the suspension mounts, that's what I am going to do. I believe tougefactory sells solid offset bushings for putting the s-14 and s-15 frames into s-13's. The mounts are 10mm wider on the s-14/s-15 frames. The only problem is that the subframe hits the floor on the top of the front diff mounting hoop. You,ve gotta bust out the BFH and a pry bar there.

poor aron, reading is just too difficult.



aron... aron aron aron....


me = not wanting solid bushings.

thanks for caring though

[Gumballf355]

http://media5.dropshots.com/photos/300/20071227/190925.jpg
Welded up and has the hookup points modified for more on throttle grip... pain in the ass to swap. Main reason why people rarely do this mod.
Solid subframe and diff bushings finish it off.

[projectRDM]

http://www.courtesyparts.com/images/z32/z32_431-1.gif

another question... maybe russ will know.

I am running a Z32 LSD and the bushings at the front nose were fucked pretty bad. In the above pic, item #55471M appears to be a structural support for the diff nose, is this correct and if so, is this necessary?

To bolt on the S13, it just uses some basic bolt + washer mounting hardware. The Z32 however appears to use a large structural support, is this correct? Does anyone have a pic of a stock 300ZX undercarriage showing how it bolts on?

Any ideas?

That's a Z32 only piece. It does tie in and support the diff, but our subframes don't have the provisions for it. There's a hole on either side with a weldnut inside the frame to thread into. The Z32 guys sometimes remove it anyway for easier diff access.

[racepar1]

poor aron, reading is just too difficult.



aron... aron aron aron....


me = not wanting solid bushings.

thanks for caring though

Don't be a vagina Mike. Solid bushings are manly. While they may transmit more noise and vibration their effect on ride quality will be minimal. Let me build your suspension for you, I'll give you a car boner! LOL! You can also use the stock subframe bushings and stretch them into the s-13 chasis. Then just use some trusty 3M window weld to stiffen them up. Here's a couple threads for you to check out on this subject.

Playing with S14 subframe - Nissan Road Racing Forums (http://nissanroadracing.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=543)
S14 subframe in S13 - touching trans hump - Nissan Road Racing Forums (http://nissanroadracing.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=799)

[projectRDM]

You can also ditch the front brackets that secure to the frame rail and rocker area and just use the 'cups' like the rear mounts are secured with. That alleviates some fitment issues with brackets rubbing in various places.
Another thing to note, S14 manual and auto subframes are different. The manuals have a chunk of rubber mounted off the forward mounts to act as a damper, auto subframes don't use them, which gives even more clearance in the front.

[PoorMans180SX]

Some guys in Japan just modify their S13 subframe suspension pickup points to match the S15 ones. It seems if you could do that, it would be a lot easier than all that shipping/finding bushings and such.

POWERED BY MAX: Forums　フォーラム/ 作ãÂ�£ãÂ�¦ã‚‚らãÂ�„ãÂ�Ÿã �„パーツ Wish List / ï¼³13ï¼Â*ＡＸリヤメン ãƒÂ�ー　作ãÂ�£ãÂ�¦ãÂ�¿ãÂ�¾ ãÂ�—ãÂ�Ÿ S13 to S15 subframe conversion (http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2498)

[racepar1]

Some guys in Japan just modify their S13 subframe suspension pickup points to match the S15 ones. It seems if you could do that, it would be a lot easier than all that shipping/finding bushings and such.

POWERED BY MAX: Forums　フォーラãƒ* / 作ãÂ�£ãÂ�¦ã‚‚らãÂ�„ãÂ�Ÿã �„パーツ Wish List / ï¼³13ï¼*ＡＸリヤメンà £Æ’Â�ー　作ãÂ�£ãÂ�¦ãÂ�¿ãÂ�¾à £Â�—ãÂ�Ÿ S13 to S15 subframe conversion (http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2498)

Looking at the picture they didn't modify the pick-up points to match the s-15 frame. The biggest difference between the s-13 and s-14/15 geometry is the angle that the lower control arm is mounted at. On the s-13 the front rlca mount sits much higher on the frame then the s-14/15. This puts the lca at and angle, higher in the front. The s-14/15 rlca's sit pretty much flat. That is the change needed to fix the anti-squat issues. Looking at the subframe in the pic in the thread you posted the lca mounts have not been touched.

[PoorMans180SX]

Well he said he did, soooo.....

And I don't think it would be too bad to lower the mounting point.

[Def]

Looking at the picture they didn't modify the pick-up points to match the s-15 frame. The biggest difference between the s-13 and s-14/15 geometry is the angle that the lower control arm is mounted at. On the s-13 the front rlca mount sits much higher on the frame then the s-14/15. This puts the lca at and angle, higher in the front. The s-14/15 rlca's sit pretty much flat. That is the change needed to fix the anti-squat issues. Looking at the subframe in the pic in the thread you posted the lca mounts have not been touched.

The rear LCA mount has been moved WAY up in that pic. This would also raise the rear roll center, but who knows what it'd do to other more complicated things in the rear suspension.

I have an S14 rear subframe - seems like the rear feels more like a "normal" car now. Recovers from oversteer much easier, although some of that is the spherical bearings back there.

[ixfxi]

That's a Z32 only piece. It does tie in and support the diff, but our subframes don't have the provisions for it. There's a hole on either side with a weldnut inside the frame to thread into. The Z32 guys sometimes remove it anyway for easier diff access.

thanks, russ.



thank you very much, father.


anyway, i think i am just gonna say fuckit and quit all this subframe swapping nonsense. I'll just reinforce the one I have now, powdercoat it and throw on some new bushings. I think if I were to install the S15 subframe, I'de relocate / reweld the studs. I dont think solid bushings is a good idea for a grip-car.

[sidewayz240]

Theres enough pics in this thread already of boxed subframes, but theres some pics of mine in the fab thread if you want to go see. Coming back from powder soon and ES pineapples going in.

[Def]

thanks, russ.



thank you very much, father.


anyway, i think i am just gonna say fuckit and quit all this subframe swapping nonsense. I'll just reinforce the one I have now, powdercoat it and throw on some new bushings. I think if I were to install the S15 subframe, I'de relocate / reweld the studs. I dont think solid bushings is a good idea for a grip-car.

An S14 subframe pushed up on S13 studs and thoroughly filled with window weld is pretty close to a solid bushing in movement control, but still have just a little bit of give to take out a little drivetrain noise/vibration.

[ixfxi]

just curious, anyone here in socal have an extra Z32 and S14 subframe they want to lend for R&D purposes? I'de love to take some detailed pics, measurements, and compile all the data... maybe we can come up with a basic reinforcement / modification upgrade for the s13 subframe.

I just think a lot of people underestimate the amount of stress a solid bushing puts on the chassis. if you're building a grip-oriented car, i think compliance is very important. ide rather hear from people who care to do R&D than from those who say "well spend 200 on these solid bushings because they work and they exist." HID-kits exist, they suck balls, so just because something exists doesnt mean its good.

[DJ_Sunrise]

Everyone on here has their own opinions about bushings, grip, etc.. When I finally picked up a purpose written book about building race cars, I found out most everyone is wrong...shit about ackerman, front upper control arms vs strut suspension, steering rack positions, types of bushings, etc...very interesting stuff. and poly bushings are work of the devil.. But they are cheap :)

I plan on replacing my ES bushings with the Nismo units.. Fuck the price... Function>wallet.

I know we are talking about rear subframes, but I'm still amazed at how much better my car drives after I installed a NISMO power brace...

-Bart

[racepar1]

The rear LCA mount has been moved WAY up in that pic. This would also raise the rear roll center, but who knows what it'd do to other more complicated things in the rear suspension.

I didn't notice that, but now that you mention it it does look higher. I'm not sure that raising the rear roll center without correcting the front is a good idea though.

I have an S14 rear subframe - seems like the rear feels more like a "normal" car now. Recovers from oversteer much easier, although some of that is the spherical bearings back there.

This is encouraging to hear. I need to get back onto my subframe, I haven't touched it in at least a month.

[NINJAS14]

I heard that the only the s15 subframes have the better angle on the rear control arms.
S14 and the s13 have the same angle, but different subframes. (the s14 is similar to the s15)

[Def]

I heard that the only the s15 subframes have the better angle on the rear control arms.
S14 and the s13 have the same angle, but different subframes. (the s14 is similar to the s15)

This is wrong. S14 and S15 have the revised LCA mounting, S13 differs from those two.

[J ROK]

Yeah, let's enjoy breaking off our subframe bolts!

[!Zar!]

Breaking off subframe bolts?

How hard do you intend on crashing?

A majority of the time the lca's bend.

[racepar1]

Yeah, let's enjoy breaking off our subframe bolts!

You've got to do somethijng pretty god damn retarded to break a friggin subframe bolt dude.

[Mangudai]

Saw this, similar to what was already said in here with a few tibits. S chassis subframe and suspension - Time Attack Forums (http://www.timeattackforums.com/forums/suspension-brakes/1286-s-chassis-subframe-suspension.html)

[xs240]

Originally Posted by a_ahmed http://www.timeattackforums.com/forums/images/greenleaf/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.timeattackforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1115#post1115)
Okay after bugging Kuah at SPL quite a bit lol.. he told me for my s13 the following:

For the s15 subframe rear setup with z32 spindle use:

-Offset bushings -- (tougefactory as spl doesnt make them)
-S14 LCA that they offer
-S13 ruca or their upcoming v2 ruca
-S14 toe rods or their v2 toe rods.
-S13 traction rods (already have yay).
-swaybars unsure

For the front with s14 spindles use:
-s14 spindles, s14 5lug hubs
-s13 LCA with s14 balljoint or SPL PRO S13 LCA with S14 shank
(available as special order)
-s13 tc rod (i have)
-tie rod outer/inner z32/z33 setup will work (i have)
-swaybar s13

WOOOHOO http://www.timeattackforums.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Good thing i didnt buy anything else but ill have to return or sell the spl pro aluminum solid bushings... ill need to get the touge factory offsets one... i will also need to get the s15 subframe...

So this should give a 10mm track width increase, less anti-squat in rear and more clearance too... plus all pillowball http://www.timeattackforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Edit: these are the offset bushings but maan they are expensive:

Here it is

[travypoo]

finished painting my frame today, added a lower tie bar as well....doing SPL RUCA and bings toe and traction along with energy suspension bushings and top speed solid frame bushings. not really sure about the green, figured it was different and better than plain old black

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/travypoo/Picture111.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/travypoo/Picture110.jpg

[racepar1]

^^^ I would have hacked the big weights off the front mounting points.

[projectRDM]

Me too. Big rubber dampers suck.

[ixfxi]

Me too. Big rubber dampers suck.

they're there for a reason, to absorb certain harmonics. i personally dont see a big difference in having them or not... afterall, who's looking?

[Bigsyke]

Harmonics from what? the diff? not that ive paid attention but how much do they weight?

And snapping a stud is pretty hard with X movement, but i assume you could warp the sheet metal somehow with collars

[PoorMans180SX]

And snapping a stud is pretty hard with X movement, but i assume you could warp the sheet metal somehow with collars



I just think a lot of people underestimate the amount of stress a solid bushing puts on the chassis. if you're building a grip-oriented car, i think compliance is very important.

The guy in Japan with the orange subframe (the one I linked above) reported that the car had more rear grip, especially when braking while sideways.

Warp the sheet metal? I'm not thinking so.

There are a myriad of S-chassis' out there with solid bushings, and no one that I know of has warped the sheet metal. The subframe is attached to the unibody that is boxed in like a frame rail.

Compliance in your subframe for a grip car? I'm pretty sure not.

When you look at true race cars, the ONLY thing that has compliance is the actual spring/shock combo. This makes the suspension do the work while keeping the camber/toe curves ideal. Any movement of your subframe is going to alter your suspension geometry, most likely reducing grip.

And I'm not sure that solid bushings actually put much more stress on the chassis, as the overall force on the subframe is the same, but bushings with compliance just transfer it slower. If you were really worried about that you should just stitch weld/cage the car.


Parts Shop Max is having a special on their subframe risers, which correct the rear roll center a half inch. Full set only $100.

POWERED BY MAX: Forums　フォーラム / 作��もら���パーツ Wish List / MAX subframe solid risers (http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?3169.20)

Hitman loves them.

Oh and by the way travypoo, you do realize that dirt and water are going to collect in those traction rod pickup points with the way you boxed them in? You might want to drill a few holes or something.

[Z33dori]

sorry if this is really noobish.

but from understanding, Increasing the strength of the sub-frame will increase grip in the rear.

what are the advantages of less anti-squat, more grip?

[racepar1]

sorry if this is really noobish.

but from understanding, Increasing the strength of the sub-frame will increase grip in the rear.

what are the advantages of less anti-squat, more grip?

Increasing the rigidity of the rear subframe reduces flex which allows the suspension to work more efficiently and thus theoretically increasing rear grip slightly. Of course you need to have your suspension set-up correctly to see any real benefits. Reducing compliance in any part of the chasis is a good thing for whatever you want to use the car for. It can even IMPROVE ride quality because the suspension is working more efficiently. Of course once again the suspension needs to be set-up properly also. The only downside to stiffening anything in the chasis is noise and vibration. Anyone who claims that a chasis can be "too stiff" is a moron.

Reducing the anti-squat allows the rear suspension to squat more and thus slightly increasing the amount of weight transfered to the rear wheels. The massive amounts of anti-squat in the s-13/r-32/z-32 rear suspension geometry also negatively affects suspension geometry in other ways that I am not capable of explaining though. IMO you will see more benefits from the other negative effects on geometry then the small amount of additional weight that is transferred.

[Z33dori]

hmm. cool

seems like a very worthy benefit.

i'm picking up a non hicas frame to swap into my car and was thinking about stiffening it up... but it was only b/c some one mention it. Didn't really know what the benefits would be.

but i think i might skip on it for now, since i need to fix a few more things throughout my entire set up so i can get an alignment and get my car corner weighted.

[PoorMans180SX]

After you swap them out, you're probably not going to want to pull the subframe out AGAIN and do that all. Just do it while it's out. It's not hard and you can get new powedercoat put on while you're at it.

[JRas]

ftw
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9536/p169972imagelarge.jpg

[racepar1]

ftw
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9536/p169972imagelarge.jpg

I can't even tell what kind of car that used to be! FTMFW right there!

[Bigsyke]

The guy in Japan with the orange subframe (the one I linked above) reported that the car had more rear grip, especially when braking while sideways.

Warp the sheet metal? I'm not thinking so.

There are a myriad of S-chassis' out there with solid bushings, and no one that I know of has warped the sheet metal. The subframe is attached to the unibody that is boxed in like a frame rail.

.

The lower collars contact the subframe, and are pressed upwards via the lower cups/subframe stud nuts. The upper subframe collar is not touching the stud, there is no control in X movement. If you can picture what im saying, the pressure against the stud durring movement isnt perfectly horrizontal. With solid bushings pressure against the studs would be more horrizontal, and pressure would be higher towards the base of the stud. Thats my theory about collars vs solid or OEM bushings.

[surge s14]

i cant really tell where its boxed in can someone help me with better pics and the best points to stitch weld

[gotspins13]

just dropped my subframe not too long ago, going to clean it all up and repaint it some bright color that POPS! and solid bushings and rebrace it=]

[Koopa Troopa]

I can't even tell what kind of car that used to be! FTMFW right there!


Looks like it could be the front of the Daishin GT300 S15..

[travypoo]

figured since i posted a few pics of my progress on my sub frame i would post the end result. hope you all like!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/travypoo/001-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/travypoo/005-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/travypoo/006-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/travypoo/010-1.jpg


nismo 60mm studs
tomei t trax 2 way
s14 5 lug
braced arm tabs
weld on lower tie bar
bings toe arms
bings traction arm
SPL RUCA
top speed solid frame bushings

[gotspins13]

^^^^^^^^
looks good, did you sand down the subframe at all? or what did you do?
planning to do mine but a bright florecent pink or purple

[travypoo]

ya i wire wheeled the whole frame. could have sand blasted it but decided not to

[xs240]

ftw
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9536/p169972imagelarge.jpg
wth is that show me more

[smelly240]

i remember hack in hte day when i had shiny clean subframe... those ksports leave my possesion friday... stancegr+pro will replace them.