S13 to S14 SR20DET Head Swap:how-to and differences

[garagelu]

S13 and S14 head differences: I believe the most significant difference between the two is the design of the intake manifolds. I believe the difference is going to be the most significant change if any in horsepower and torque. The s14 IM has significantly longer runners and a notably larger plenum.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3468/3305532490_e609cf38fb.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3584/3305534508_7bf655341f.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3486/3305527670_55b7451146.jpg?v=0

Another difference that correlates to the IM is the fact that the s13 is a high port head and the s14 is a low port head. This difference affects the angle the air and fuel enters the chamber. I also want to point out the fact that the s14 ports have a significantly improved casting compared to the s13 ports. I want to state that I am only basing this observation on what is in front of me. I know castings, depending on how tight quality control is, can vary quite a bit.

PLEASE READ: A while ago when I was thinking about doing this swap, I was scouring the forums for more information on this swap. I kept seeing a lot of misinformed posts. One misconception was something about a VTC hole on the head. The only difference between the surface that mates to the block is one hole and that is a oil hole for the timing chain tensioner. On the s13 there is only one hole for oil pressure. On the s14 it looks like one hole is for pressure and the other is for lubrication. Other than that every hole lines up just as it would on the s13 head.

I also want to note how much more user friendly the s14 head and manifold is. Especially the coolant hose routing under the manifold was so much better in my opinion on the s14. In my situation, I am going to run a ¾ inch coolant hose from the lower coolant neck to the coolant port on the firewall. The other line goes from the firewall to the port on the intake manifold. Two other things that clean up the coolant hose routing is on the s14 there are no coolant lines running through the IACV and on the s14 the turbo coolant line doesn’t go behind the head. It routes from the upper coolant neck to the turbo.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3620/3305526474_1c0c2cfa94.jpg?v=1235442368


Initially I had thought that the IACV differences were going to pose a problem. On the s13 IACV there is only one plug where the s14 one has two separate plugs. Upon closer inspection they just integrate the two sensors/solenoids into one plug. Luckily my friend that I bought all this stuff from pulled two plugs off some random Nissan harness that worked with the s14 IACV. In this situation, you have two choices. My first and recommended choice is to solder the plugs onto the s13 harness. Your second choice is to swap the sensor/solenoid over to the s14 IACV body. Also there are some differences between the two IACV which is the fact that the s13 IACV has coolant in and out lines but the s14 one doesn’t. The s13 IACV has a port that pulls air from the coldpipe but the s14 pulls air through a hardline on the IM.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3556/3304730333_cabcffb75f.jpg?v=0

Another problem I have run into is differences between the s13 and s14 throttle body. The s13 throttle pulley design does not allow me to use it. This poses a problem in my comparison. The s14 butterfly is 2 inches compared to the 2.5 inch butterfly on the s13. This .5 inch difference will definitely cause a skew in the results. I might have to just run with it unless someone can find me a s14 NA throttle body or donate one to me.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3340/3304701175_66e14f6fe6.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3557/3305530214_01bf6123d3.jpg?v=0

And finally this is what my kitchen looks like right now....
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3344/3289330710_6db5e1d0ab.jpg?v=0

I will be updating with more information on this swap. Right now I am waiting on my valve spring compresssor to change over everything on my s13 head over. After that I can shine a light through my glass table and get good lighting for an in the port picture. And following, my head will be sent to the machine shop for decking and solvent washing.

So now to give some data behind this head swap, I will be taking this up to my original tuner hopefully and get it dynoed tuned. My setup is almost exactly the same from last year when I tuned. The things I changed on the car should not affect my hp or torque number much. Here is just a brief list of things I have changed: upgraded from evc 5 to evc 6, changed my blitz downpipe to a XS engineering downpipe, replaced my cracked exhaust manifold with a dc sports one. Hopefully this will give me some hard evidence on which head is better. I know there are many variables that can affect it but I will take them into consideration.

[drifter_for_life06]

some good info...keep us updated. Although I dont plan to do this...it has me interested

[Om1kron]

very good an informative thread...

[Sileighty_85]

Its been along time but i believe the T/B off an N/A FWD SR (Ex. G20 infinity)
Will work for the S14.

I think the G20 one might work, i cant remember what SR we pulled ours off of. (Japan threw SR's in alot of differnt cars)

[s15specR]

I'm looking to buy an s14 SR20 head if anyone knows of one, bare head is fine.

Thanks.

[garagelu]

Its been along time but i believe the T/B off an N/A FWD SR (Ex. G20 infinity)
Will work for the S14.

I think the G20 one might work, i cant remember what SR we pulled ours off of. (Japan threw SR's in alot of differnt cars)

If a sentra se-r or g20 TB is going to work, I am pretty sure it would have to be a 95 and up since that is when they went to the low port design. I was thinking about modifying the pulley by drilling a hole in the pulley. The only reason why the s13 sr TB won't work is because the cable will not reach.

And yes they will work, but does anyone know what size the butterfly is on those fwd sr20de. If they are non-turbo I would like to say they are the 60mm.

[slider2828]

So the two benefits are small change in quality of the IM and better IM coolant hose management? But overall you doubt there will be any HP or TQ changes?

[hksevo]

bummppp-....

[garagelu]

So the two benefits are small change in quality of the IM and better IM coolant hose management? But overall you doubt there will be any HP or TQ changes?

If you read through my post, I have a few things that I think will affect HP and TQ. Number one being intake manifold design and next would be head port design and casting. And another benefit is the fact that the s14 engine looks so much better than the s13 engines.....IMO.

And I am not doing this because I think that I will make 100 more hp with a s14 head. They are both sr heads. Its not like they did a huge redesign. I expect more of a shifting in the powerband. I am mostly doing this because there were so much misinfomation about this swap. Especially about this VTC hole that I still don't know who would even start this rumor.

Just a few examples:

http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/214857-black-top-head-red-top-block.html

http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/209544-s14-head-w-o-vtc-s13-block.html

http://zilvia.net/f/engine-tech/201750-s14-sr-block-w-s13-sr-head-whats-involved.html

And I may have forgotten to mention this but I will be using s13 cams and not using VTC. I have a s13 power fc with a couple hundred dollars in dyno time plus I don't feel like redoing my harness just to use VTC. I've seen pictures of s14/s15 engine modded by tuners in japan and I don't even see the VTC solenoid plugged up.

[Om1kron]

So the two benefits are small change in quality of the IM and better IM coolant hose management? But overall you doubt there will be any HP or TQ changes?

If anything maybe more efficient combustion, and the vvt/vtc whateeeever it's called. wont work.

in a nutshell.

The cams should be pretty similar, I don't know the exact numbers i'm sure the OP can provide all of that. It's just a better head design, down from the casting, the cooling, and the oil baffling through cover design.

edit : the op is using the s13 cams so yeah... same cam design just a chance in efficiency.

[slider2828]

I DID read it, but was wondering I thought high port is better no? But since your are mating a S14 IM to a S14 head, why not just go all S14 since the Valve cover is going to change to S14 valve cover as well....

[Om1kron]

I DID read it, but was wondering I thought high port is better no? But since your are mating a S14 IM to a S14 head, why not just go all S14 since the Valve cover is going to change to S14 valve cover as well....

The point of the thread is more the interchangability of the blocks. You could build an s13 block and throw an s14 or s13 head on it.

Most people are afraid of building high hp applications with the s14 because they don't want to deal with the variable cam timing shit, or at least this is what I've found from research.

Where as most high hp cars pushing 530hp and what not are using red top motors because of the older design without the gas efficiency design. that's all VTC is, gets you more gas mileage.

the port design and such I don't recall where I found the information but like I said combustion and moves air more efficiently. Most sr20det's headwork improvements don't come from making the combustion chambers bigger, it comes from polishing, and modifying bowls and other head terms I cant remember.

Should be interesting to see how the s14 head behaves with s13 cams in it.

[slider2828]

Ok, but one more thing I should say is that most longer duration and bigger cams for S14 eliminates the VTC all together.... Its really up to the buyer to see if he wants to keep it or not. lol....

[Om1kron]

Ok, but one more thing I should say is that most longer duration and bigger cams for S14 eliminates the VTC all together.... Its really up to the buyer to see if he wants to keep it or not. lol....

The problem is he is running redtop power fc, and would have to change his ecu setup for the thing to be compatible with the vtc.

[slider2828]

Yah the thing is his redtop powerfc.... I guess he source a head,vc, and IM cheaper than tune with blacktop PFC... but I wanna see how much better it is.... really interested in this project nontheless!!

[Sileighty_85]

If a sentra se-r or g20 TB is going to work, I am pretty sure it would have to be a 95 and up since that is when they went to the low port design. I was thinking about modifying the pulley by drilling a hole in the pulley. The only reason why the s13 sr TB won't work is because the cable will not reach.

And yes they will work, but does anyone know what size the butterfly is on those fwd sr20de. If they are non-turbo I would like to say they are the 60mm.

The N/A should be the same size as the R/T DET

I have one laying around here (I beleive its a DE) it meausres 60mm

can't you swap the pully's?

Its really been along time since I've had to do this lol

[garagelu]

I DID read it, but was wondering I thought high port is better no? But since your are mating a S14 IM to a S14 head, why not just go all S14 since the Valve cover is going to change to S14 valve cover as well....

I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense to me. I would change everything over to s14 but I just don't see the point right now. I could have run a s14 block and just change over all the sensors (only sensor I can think of on the block is the oil pressure). So really s13 blocks are not so different from s14 blocks with the exception of the better oil pickup and better pistons.

And I would have bought the s14 block but it had a spun bearing and I don't have a garage to be doing a full build.

The N/A should be the same size as the R/T DET

I have one laying around here (I beleive its a DE) it meausres 60mm

can't you swap the pully's?

Its really been along time since I've had to do this lol

I wish I had access to a fwd sr TB to see if it will work. And no, I can't swap pulleys. If you look at my side shot comparison of the two TB, you can see that the shaft size is different.


I just got my valve spring tool today from UPS so I will be updating the thread with some port pictures tonight.

[garagelu]

Update:

So today I got my valve spring tool and disassembled the whole head to prep for decking, solvent washing, valve seals, and upgrading valve springs. Here are some port shots comparing the two heads. I did some porting on my s13 head so it kinda sucks I couldn't get a picture of an untouched s13 port.

S13 HEAD

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3507/3308360558_80fc289b67.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3307519799_fe310834d3.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3380/3308349314_347ecf960b.jpg?v=0

S14 HEAD

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3467/3307521771_2e70b80958.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3575/3307520929_4a17d33667.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3595/3307523309_51a205b8ea.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3327/3308348376_3da50e6dd1.jpg?v=1235532563

[slider2828]

Wow s14 is alot better noticeably....

[DJ_Sunrise]

Nice work, I'm diggin the post. Do you have the S14 VTC stuff by chance? My VTC kind of wore out ;-) lol

-Bart

[garagelu]

Nice work, I'm diggin the post. Do you have the S14 VTC stuff by chance? My VTC kind of wore out ;-) lol

-Bart

I can't sell the solenoid because then that hole would be just open unless I could find I plug for it. I do have the VTC cam gear for the intake cam. What else do you need? PM me.

[heiyuu]

woo hoo finally the answer to my question. and lol at my thread getting linked up as a noob thread.

[garagelu]

Today I got my head back from decking and solvent washing. It always puts a smile on your face when you have clean parts coming back to you. Next will be installing valve seals, valve springs, etc, etc and then I will be pretty damn close to installing it on the block.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3608/3324769558_00279dc989.jpg?v=0

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http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3651/3324773400_d4fea85efe.jpg?v=0


Today I also got my JWT C1 cams and valve springs in. I wasn't planning on changing cams but I have wanting some JWT cams but just couldn't bring myself to pay the 600 dollar price tag. But I finally found an incredible deal on them and therefore I couldn't pass it up. C1 cams have pretty much the same duration and lift as the BC stage 2 cams but as you should be able to tell from the pictures the overall design is COMPLETELY different. The BC cam lobe looks to be wider than the JWT lobe. I initially tried to take the picture with it light on the lobe but I found that taking a picture of the shadow differentiates the two much better.

BC Stage 2
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3628/3324911002_b511278ca7.jpg?v=0

JWT C1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3627/3324085885_5b3231215c.jpg?v=1236051539


Also here is a comparison of JWT(left), BC(center), stock(right) valve springs. My first observation was the fact that the JWT spring is overall wider than the BC and stock springs. I guess you could say the coil width is wider on the JWT as you can see from the picture taken of the top of the springs. But on the side view picture, you can see that the BC coils are taller. Also, you can see that JWT spring is wound counterclockwise and the BC and stock spring are wound clockwise. And finall you will see that the JWT spring sits a couple mm shorter than the other two springs. I'd like some input on why this is and what difference it will make. OH and also just buy using my hand to compress the spring, the BC spring has quite a bit more tension that the JWT. BC springs have to be one of the stiffest sr springs on the market.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3324778628_a3d9e321f0.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3562/3324780428_4da29d08f2.jpg?v=1236050504

[garagelu]

I haven't tried to contact Cody about this but I saw on his site that he had posted up some pics of his JWT springs. It looks like all his springs are the same except for one. And the odd one out looks like my whole set.

I wonder if JWT changed their design somewhere down the line. It looks like all his are wound clockwise like the stock springs.

Gallery :: JWT Springs (http://www.codyace.com/gallery/album301)

Anybody else have JWT springs that can give some input?

[garagelu]

Well I've got a pretty big update here:

This is something I didn't realize till I was starting to install the head. On the s14 head there is a separate oil pressure source coming up from the block and into the timing chain tensioner. It took me a good couple hours of probing holes in the head to figure out how oil is routed in the head. I am still confused about how the VTC solenoid works. It looks like there is a oil passage going from the solenoid up through the cam bridge, through the cam and cam bolt and into the VTC sprocket. But how does the solenoid regulate oil pressure is what I am wondering. Anyone have any input on this? I don't know that it will really matter in my situation. I am thinking that as long as I have oil going to the tensioner then I am ok.

On the s13 it get oil pressure to the tensioner from a hole coming from the front left head stud hole. Here is a picture of the s13 oil pressure hole location.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3664/3364543630_d99692c4a4.jpg?v=0

On the s14 head, it has the same hole in the head stud hole but that supplies oil pressure to the VTC solenoid. This poses a problem because if I don't modify the head then I will have no oil pressure to the tensioner.

So here is some info for anyone in the future who decides to attempt this. I went to several machine shops and some said they could do it. The shop I had my head decked quoted me 150 dollars to drill a hole. Another shop said 100. Both said they couldn't get to it for at least a week. I decided to take it to a place nearby called Midwest Chassis and Performance. The shop is built behind the owner's house. It sounds shady but this guy is recommended by everyone in town. I take it to him and he says he has a bridgeport to do it and it will be 30 dollars. I am in disbelief. Then I tell him that I jb welded the other hole and he said he will use a threaded plug to plug it for 20 dollars. And on top of that it only took him 1 day to do it. I am thoroughly impressed. Here are some pics:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3586/3364542554_20449e7b83.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3618/3364544700_23476186bb.jpg?v=0

What great about the plug is it is removable. If I ever decide to go to an s14 block I have the option of plugging the hole in the block or removing the plug and running it that way.

So when looking for a shop to do this, make sure they have a bridgeport. Also bring them both heads so they can drill the same location as the s13 head. And don't be like me and find out about this till I am about to install the head.

Today, the head is bolted and torqued down, head assembled, cams installed, timing all set. Tomorrow will be rewiring iacv, installing turbo, running vacuum and fuels lines, and other misc tasks. Should be 2 or 3 more days to get this thing running. Can't wait.....the weather is so nice!!!

[s14unimog]

Interesting write up. I'm sure this will be a great reference for someone in the future. To add, I am using an s13 head on an s14 block and noticed a few differences as well. To get everything assembled I used a variety of parts from both setups. First off, since I had a new s13 oil pump/front cover; I used that. I noticed that all bolt holes line up except one. At the very top left of the cover the last bolt is about a 1/4" off. We used a washer to span the gap and it works great. Next I found that you must use the s13 SR coolant piping and thermostat housing and actually bend some of the connections out of the way of each other. Since the coolant port on the block is s14, there is a point where they come really close to one another. Another obvious change is the need to run an s14 oil filter and an s14 water pump. I'll check with my engine builder but I'm pretty sure there was a port on the block we closed up, but as you said, everything in an s13 head lines up to an s14 block; aside from that of course. As for the intake manifold, I chose to go with a Greddy style and used an s14 throttle cable pulley ,then made a bracket for the cable.

[garagelu]

Interesting write up. I'm sure this will be a great reference for someone in the future. To add, I am using an s13 head on an s14 block and noticed a few differences as well. To get everything assembled I used a variety of parts from both setups. First off, since I had a new s13 oil pump/front cover; I used that. I noticed that all bolt holes line up except one. At the very top left of the cover the last bolt is about a 1/4" off. We used a washer to span the gap and it works great. Next I found that you must use the s13 SR coolant piping and thermostat housing and actually bend some of the connections out of the way of each other. Since the coolant port on the block is s14, there is a point where they come really close to one another. Another obvious change is the need to run an s14 oil filter and an s14 water pump. I'll check with my engine builder but I'm pretty sure there was a port on the block we closed up, but as you said, everything in an s13 head lines up to an s14 block; aside from that of course. As for the intake manifold, I chose to go with a Greddy style and used an s14 throttle cable pulley ,then made a bracket for the cable.

Yea that port that you closed up is definitely the oil pressure source coming up through the block to the head for the tensioner.

And pretty much to sum it all up if you are using a s14 head, you want to use all s14 stuff from the head gasket up. And same for the s13 obviously.

[s14unimog]

^ yup, pretty much...

[rican_nick]

great thread. I may have missed it but did you find out te reason behind the "odd" BC spring? Have you decided which springs your going to use?

[garagelu]

It was actually an "odd" JWT spring that I saw on codyace's webpage. I finally got in touch with him and said that the seller sent him the wrong springs. So he bought a new set of JWT springs and said that mine look just like his.

So yes I decided on running the JWT springs with stock retainers. I saw quite a bit of galling on my ~5,000 mile BC Ti retainers. I didn't see those lasting more that 15-20K miles. The only way I would run Ti retainers is if my car was a track/weekend car.

Here is where I'm at now. Just a little progress pic:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3567/3366096028_4d8e4d2f91.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3366095402_221134f17f.jpg?v=0

I also just got my 60mm s15 NA throttle body in yesterday. That should give me a good 5-10 hp....maybe?

[slider2828]

You mean TI retainers aren't as good as Normal Retainers? In terms of longevity?

O and what Manifold is that? It looks sexy...

[garagelu]

You mean TI retainers aren't as good as Normal Retainers? In terms of longevity?

O and what Manifold is that? It looks sexy...

Definitely not. The fact is that the rockwell hardness on the Ti retainer is less than the valve spring it is rubbing against. Over time, the Ti will wear.

And my thinking is that the fact is that my car is not my daily driver but I do take it on long distance trips 2 or 3 times during the summer. When I went to college in Michigan, I would drive back home to Alabama with my 240 a few times. So with that, I figured why risk it. With Ti you will have less chance of valve float and maybe 1 or 2 hp here and there but I think there are more disadvantages than advantages in a street car.

It is a DC sports manifold. I know there is a stereotype of DC being cheap and honda guys running all their headers. But, retail before they were discontinued were selling for around 400-500 dollars. I got this on closeout from AEM/DC for 160 dollars. It didn't come with hardware and a brace. I spent maybe 50-60 dollars is materials for bracing, welding and hardware. And comparing to my ebay manifold.....the tubing is twice as thick, the welds are much improved and overall looks pretty high quality.

My ebay manifold brace cracked and I didn't catch it in time which resulted in a cracked manifolds. The IL roads here suck so bad.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3589/3285906259_d695b6c050.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3400/3286726604_c80a70de80.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3542/3285903639_e44339d462.jpg?v=0

And here is a picture of the brace I had to weld on.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3615/3366100814_88f67ae7e2.jpg?v=0

[garagelu]

I took some pictures after I finished working for the day yesterday. Everything is pretty much done. I am still waiting on my coldpipe to be done at the welder's. The bottom section is getting cut off and a bead welded where its cut and then there is that section of pipe that people use for the BOV....I am getting that cut off and a plate welded to cover it. I am also still waiting on my braille battery. It's on backorder from tirerack. I would have ordered another odyssey pc680 since it lasted me a solid 3 years but the braille was only about 20 dollars more with more CCA and looks so much better in black. I think all I have left is adjusting my TPS, checking timing, fill with coolant, install coldpipe, and maybe a few other small stuff.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3635/3375189549_ef3de52249.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3376008718_c52cce7ec1.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3539/3376010634_69e51212db.jpg?v=0

My #4 runner comes about an 1 inch from my ABS brake booster. I just bought some heat wrap to wrap that one section this weekend. Hopefully its enough.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3645/3376012468_fdf9a073bd.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3586/3376014940_22aa79cc54.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3375199119_f75892d443.jpg?v=0

Here is a before the swap picture that I took. I didn't realize how nasty my engine bay looked before.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3461/3376029446_00c3caa07a.jpg?v=0

[yabeet]

Looks beautiful, the DC manifold just looks high quality from afar, looks even better than the tomei manifold which I have. Did ebay knockoffs cause the SR DC manifold to be discontinued?
Good luck upon startup, keep us updated. :bigok:

[garagelu]

Looks beautiful, the DC manifold just looks high quality from afar, looks even better than the tomei manifold which I have. Did ebay knockoffs cause the SR DC manifold to be discontinued?
Good luck upon startup, keep us updated. :bigok:

My thinking is the price and the brand was the cause of it being discontinued. For 400 dollars, even if the quality is higher than ebay manifolds, who would pay that for a DC branded manifold. I know I wouldn't. For 400 dollars there are better options out there I guess you could say. Tomei for about 100 dollars more or even a peak performance. I think used HKS manifolds go for around 400 dollars too.

I might need that luck on startup. There are a few things I am worried about on startup but nothing too major I hope. Should be getting my coldpipe monday or tuesday so should be running this coming week. I'll be going to tune most likely week after next so dyno sheets should be posted up when I get them.

[sbanzer123]

looks great. could you post a picture of your coldpipe when you get it back? i was just thinking about doing that yesterday when i was putting my car back together.

[garagelu]

Yea I'll definitely post up pictures. This guy mentioned that he could recreate the welds on that dc manifold so hopefully he does a good job on my coldpipe. I hope he calls me monday. This is pretty much the last thing I need to start the car.

[DCP94]

interesting thread..keep us updated

[garagelu]

So I FINALLY got my coldpipe back. I can't believe how long he took. Its been exactly a week since I gave it to him. He gets my head modification done in a day but can't get some simple cut and welds done. Here is a pretty much final setup picture. I just need to put a vacuum line from the IM to the brake booster line, put the battery in and its ready to start up.....I hope.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3554/3388552546_185f71fd43.jpg?v=0

While I have been waiting on the coldpipe, I wrapped the section where the runner is so close to the brake booster.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3547/3388553202_8bb5da0eda.jpg?v=0

It didn't turn out as clean as I thought. I kinda regret doing this. If I ever buy another s14 coldpipe, I will just weld a block off plate to the end of the bov tube.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/3387745275_caf047b3d0.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3461/3388554646_5093c476a5.jpg?v=0

[slider2828]

It ain't going to be enough with just heat wrap to block the booster.

Should have cut the runners on the exh manifold to give it a little more play and flex...

Yah damn cold pipe could have been done better.

So how does she run?

[garagelu]

It ain't going to be enough with just heat wrap to block the booster.

Should have cut the runners on the exh manifold to give it a little more play and flex...

Yah damn cold pipe could have been done better.

So how does she run?

Play and flex?....I have no idea what you mean. Do you mean more clearance?

And why do you say heat wrap is not going to be enough. Have you had personal experience with it. Please don't just say it's not going to work and not back your statement up.

[fromxtor]

I can't see your pics at work, but I would also either A. Wrap your BMC reservoir and/or B. Make/ buy a BMC heat shield. They aren't really that expensive to make or buy.

[garagelu]

The master cylinder is the least of my worries. The brake lines are closer to the runners than the BMC is.

I may go to the speed shop and pick up some heat shield to wrap the brake booster with just for double protection.

[slider2828]

Not the runners, ergh... the thing that the runners connect to on the head. The flat piece, dunno whats it called... So its 4 individial runners instead of being all attached to once piece.

Yes that head wrap is not going to be enough, that is for sure... Its the overall heat that the headers will output not just that runner itself.... I would try to block heat from all the way under the break master cylinder to as high as the hood... Just that little piece of wrap is not enough... trust me especially on the track. Heat tends to radiate in every direction. Trust me I ran the stock cast iron manifold and its way far from the top of the hood, but it will melted that black fabricate layer....

[fromxtor]

^^ That would be the flange, you are referring to.

[slider2828]

^^Yeah cut the flange...and Fromxtor... Haven't forgot about hooking you up... still go your addy...

-Ken

[garagelu]

So this weekend I finally was able to get my car up to the dyno and get the car tuned. I made the 7 hour trip up to Detroit at Monkeywrench Racing.

So this is a pretty general mod list:

Garrett 2871r .64
Nismo 740cc injectors
Nismo FPR
Walbro 255
JWT C1 cams and valve springs
Stock s13 bottom end with s14 sr head
ARP studs and Apexi 1.2mm head gasket
Head was decked with about .005 off
Z32 MAF
DC Sports manifold
HKS EVC 6 BC
NA s14 60mm TB
Apexi Power FC

The only difference from my old setup is that I had the BC stage 2 cams, BC valve springs, nismo 555cc injectors, s13 head, different exhaust manifold, and a EVC 5.

I haven't had the best opportunity to drive it hard yet. It's been wet and raining for a past 2-3 days. I did race my friend's ls2 gto after I tuned and it wasn't even close. It had an exhaust and a tune on it and I pulled 4-5 cars on him. I also want to add that I got about 340 miles and that was with about 12-12.5 gallons of gas. My s14 is full interior with spare and I had shitload of tools with me too.

Here is the dyno sheets (the faint dotted line is my old setup with the s13 head and BC cams):

hp against uncorrected torque (corrected number is 352 tq)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3645/3462934637_cbc992ef35_b.jpg

hp against boost

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3487/3462934883_e3305cb2fb_b.jpg

Here is a video of my 400hp pull:

Dyno at Monkeywrench-4/18/09 on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/4233482?pg=transcoded_embed&sec=4233482)

Here are pics of the 2871r turbo lotus elise that was in the shop. The tuner said it was pushing 360hp and its back in the shop to get it close to 400.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3619/3458461832_6eeb2abf9b.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3494/3458462990_95d3725019.jpg?v=0

[mindmineral]

this is one of the best threads I have ever seen
thanks to all for your efforts

[red240]

^^Yeah cut the flange...and Fromxtor... Haven't forgot about hooking you up... still go your addy...

-Ken
We used to cut the flange on the stock manifold [turbo]on our starions as they would crack at the runners
After cutting them so they could expand independently they never cracked again
That and a flex section in the down pipe and that should take care of it

[matt11145]

thanks for the link to your thread, this was all the info i needed. by the way, great build and great job on providing all the needed information for anyone else looking to do this. thanks again.

[bmx269]

I know this post is old, but I am trying to get more info on the head modifications for the oil feed. I have blown my S14 SR at Irwindale during the FD Proam Finals, and decided to go the S13 block for added convenience in the future, if any engine problems were to occur at the track. S13 blocks are easy to come by.

All pics of the oil feed setup and or anything you can provide will help. Thanks.

-Trent

[garagelu]

I know this post is old, but I am trying to get more info on the head modifications for the oil feed. I have blown my S14 SR at Irwindale during the FD Proam Finals, and decided to go the S13 block for added convenience in the future, if any engine problems were to occur at the track. S13 blocks are easy to come by.

All pics of the oil feed setup and or anything you can provide will help. Thanks.

-Trent

On the oil pressure source for the timing chain tensioner, all you have to do is take both the s13 and s14 head into the machine shop and tell them to replicate the hole in the s13 head onto the s14 head. Make sure they do it on a bridgeport so they can get it dead on.

And make sure they don't rape you on price. I think I paid 30-40 dollars to do this. After all, they are just drilling a hole. It takes a few minutes to set the position on the brideport but after that, its simple.

And just FYI, my setup is still running stronger than ever and still extremely reliable. The only problem I seem to have is a tiny coolant leak that I haven't tracked down but looks like its coming from under the intake manifold.

[yabeet]

Wow sorry to bump an old thread but congrats on everything going well, dyno vid is pretty bad ass!!

Quick q from you where did you buy your JWT cams? Im trying to find places that will ship to Canada...

[ashmir]

How about ur s13 head swap to s14?successful?i plan to do so,but i wanted to use s13 manifold.

[singlecamslam]

Its obviously succesfull since it says he drove the car 6 hours and made 400hp.

[garagelu]

How about ur s13 head swap to s14?successful?i plan to do so,but i wanted to use s13 manifold.

I never did a s13 head swap to s14 block. But it will definitely work.

My setup has been running strong ever since I did the head swap. I'm actually about to pull the 2871r setup tomorrow and put a full-race twin scroll 3076r setup in. Adding a Greddy intake manifold also.

[supervenom]

Man, how very awesome guys! This thread covers so much info and has so much innovation.

Top 10!

[veloz]

Hey Guys,

Well Thanks to the OP for this thread.

It gave me all the information I needed to try it out on my own and it worked like a charm.

Long Story Short, I had a 90mm Sleeved S13 Block kicking around and I didn't want to use an S13 head.

I guess I'll post pics and junk too when I can.


I only have one question.

Will the vvt/vtc whateeeever it's called still work since it's still receiving oil pressure or in making that relief hole for the Tensioner make it unusable?

Thoughts?

[garagelu]

I only have one question.

Will the vvt/vtc whateeeever it's called still work since it's still receiving oil pressure or in making that relief hole for the Tensioner make it unusable?

Thoughts?

VTC will work but you have to change to S14 harness and ECU.

[S14DOOD]

Well I've got a pretty big update here:

This is something I didn't realize till I was starting to install the head. On the s14 head there is a separate oil pressure source coming up from the block and into the timing chain tensioner. It took me a good couple hours of probing holes in the head to figure out how oil is routed in the head. I am still confused about how the VTC solenoid works. It looks like there is a oil passage going from the solenoid up through the cam bridge, through the cam and cam bolt and into the VTC sprocket. But how does the solenoid regulate oil pressure is what I am wondering. Anyone have any input on this? I don't know that it will really matter in my situation. I am thinking that as long as I have oil going to the tensioner then I am ok.

On the s13 it get oil pressure to the tensioner from a hole coming from the front left head stud hole. Here is a picture of the s13 oil pressure hole location.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3664/3364543630_d99692c4a4.jpg?v=0

On the s14 head, it has the same hole in the head stud hole but that supplies oil pressure to the VTC solenoid. This poses a problem because if I don't modify the head then I will have no oil pressure to the tensioner.

So here is some info for anyone in the future who decides to attempt this. I went to several machine shops and some said they could do it. The shop I had my head decked quoted me 150 dollars to drill a hole. Another shop said 100. Both said they couldn't get to it for at least a week. I decided to take it to a place nearby called Midwest Chassis and Performance. The shop is built behind the owner's house. It sounds shady but this guy is recommended by everyone in town. I take it to him and he says he has a bridgeport to do it and it will be 30 dollars. I am in disbelief. Then I tell him that I jb welded the other hole and he said he will use a threaded plug to plug it for 20 dollars. And on top of that it only took him 1 day to do it. I am thoroughly impressed. Here are some pics:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3586/3364542554_20449e7b83.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3618/3364544700_23476186bb.jpg?v=0

What great about the plug is it is removable. If I ever decide to go to an s14 block I have the option of plugging the hole in the block or removing the plug and running it that way.

So when looking for a shop to do this, make sure they have a bridgeport. Also bring them both heads so they can drill the same location as the s13 head. And don't be like me and find out about this till I am about to install the head.

Today, the head is bolted and torqued down, head assembled, cams installed, timing all set. Tomorrow will be rewiring iacv, installing turbo, running vacuum and fuels lines, and other misc tasks. Should be 2 or 3 more days to get this thing running. Can't wait.....the weather is so nice!!!


So the hole above the bottom hole is the one you had drilled to get oil to the tensioner? Also there is a oil hole on the front side what is that for?

[TEALSQUEAL]

If you use the mazworx manual cam chain tensioner is any modification needed aside from the s14 head gasket and other s14 items? I ask this since the stock tensioner works off of oil pressure and the mazworx one doesn't seem to need anything of that sort. I have a full standalone setup so the electronics aren't an issue. I'm trying to just make sure the mechanicals will line up and work. My s14 block needs a line bore on the crank and I have a spare good s13 block sitting around.

[fullthrottle]

If you use the mazworx manual cam chain tensioner is any modification needed aside from the s14 head gasket and other s14 items? I ask this since the stock tensioner works off of oil pressure and the mazworx one doesn't seem to need anything of that sort. I have a full standalone setup so the electronics aren't an issue. I'm trying to just make sure the mechanicals will line up and work. My s14 block needs a line bore on the crank and I have a spare good s13 block sitting around.

Would like to know this as well.

[garagelu]

If you use the mazworx manual cam chain tensioner is any modification needed aside from the s14 head gasket and other s14 items? I ask this since the stock tensioner works off of oil pressure and the mazworx one doesn't seem to need anything of that sort. I have a full standalone setup so the electronics aren't an issue. I'm trying to just make sure the mechanicals will line up and work. My s14 block needs a line bore on the crank and I have a spare good s13 block sitting around.

The hole is drilled only for oil pressure. I am not familiar with Mazworx's design or that particular product but if it does not require oil pressure then it only makes sense to me that you wouldn't even have to worry about it.

[Mr. white]

You mentioned something about jb welding a hole and then having the guy plug it later. I'm confused on why you had to do this, could you explain?

[Shift n Drift]

He had to do that so the oil wouldn't leak all over the engine BC the port hangs over the s13 block.