Suspension Question for "Spirited" Racing

[kurissuS13]

i would like ppl's opinion/advice about "footwork".

right now, i am working on a budget of more or less a grand. i am considering a suspension package consisting of lowering springs, adj. shocks, STB's, sway bars. however, if i were to wait and save up, i would be able to purchase an adjustable coilover system (ie TEIN's).

which option would be better for Auto-X/Drift? also, would coilovers alone be just as streetable as my other option? i drive around the LA area, where potholes are plentiful and hidden.

[nrcooled]

To stay on a budget get the sway bar off an SE or LE at a junk yard also I really like my HKS kgmm w/ the AGXs. And ebay is your friend when it comes to STB front and rear

My setup:
SE sway bars - got an SE(not adjustable but feel really good at the track)
AGX/HKS kgmm - $450 (all four corners) got them used from DriftFreaq
STB front and rear - $120 (for both) off ebay. A STB is a STB!

All said and done I have a pretty good handling car for under $600

[Dousan_PG]

i drive LA/OC areas
tein HE
tein TC rods
kazama rear upper arms

soon having BV front links and rear toe links
kazama tie rod ends

its uncomfortalbe, stiff and a lot of bumpsteer

but at the track or any sort of spirited driving you cant compare. worth every cent

its a trade off, youhave to find out what you want to do more w/ your car.

[kurissuS13]

would a car equipped with lowering springs & adjustable struts/shocks be able to drift just as well as a car equipped with adjustable coilovers? i plan on having coilovers in the future, but at this point in time, i could actually purchase them. or, would it be best to go with lowering springs & adjustable struts/shocks now and then save up for coilovers?

nrcooled: btw, that's very helpful advice for S13 owners. however, i am currently in the process of getting an FC TII. i just came up with the topic because it can be applied to all cars in general. good advice, tho. :)

[Dousan_PG]

allow me to kick your ass

drifting is not about suspension
drifting is not about power


drifting is about SKILL and CONTROL

you can drift on stock suspension

you can drift on stock engine


its about YOU and how well YOU control the car.
i can give you a 15,000 drift car w/ every thing needed for it, and you can end up putting it into a wall cuz you dont have control


so please dont say "drift setup" or "drift suepsnion" because all you are referring to is your lack of skill


kick ass time is over

coilovers will make drifting easier

but befre you buy ANYTHING. and you SERIOUSLY want to drift, buy an LSD. dont ask me about VLSD cuz their POS imho. a REAL 2 way clutch LSD if you are serious about drifting.

if you buy coilovers first and run an open diff, dont talk about drifting.

i have more respect for a 'drifter' (and i use the term lightly) who has stock suspension and an LSD of some sort then the guy w/ a decked out car and open diff.

[kurissuS13]

ack! i deserved that. i forgot to type that in. i am totally aware that a drift is about the driver. and, i'm fully aware that i have no skill whatsoever with drifting. i'm asking the question i asked because i kno that springs/shocks work prty well at auto-x. i wanted to kno if that could crossover into drift.

as for an LSD, iirc, the FC TII comes with an LSD. yes, i kno factory LSD aren't as grand as a 2-way clutch LSD, but it's a start. a KAAZ LSD + installation costs as much as coilovers. i'm not sure if i would take that route, but it is defintely a possibility.

pls take pity on me for i am a total newB when it comes to this topic, as u can obviously see. feel free to correct me, i would luv to get the correct info if i am wrong.

allow me to kick your ass

just don't go for the nuts.

[Dousan_PG]

lol
cool

fc huh? i dont know much but im sure a lot transfers over between our cars in the sense of 'track' setups

bushings? that's for the weak. go pillowball. streetability should be in the back seat. that shouldnt be important

coilovers are harsh and rude depending on what spring rate you get

i have 8/6 i want 9/7.

lsd is vital, it is what makes drifitng happen.

honestly but a 2 way clutch before coilovers. yeah your car wont look cool or be lowered, but not only will you still be able to drift and maintain slides but you'll also learn the valuable lessons of weight transfer!!! trust me, coilovers shouldnt be a priority!! buy an LSD and never look back. its one mod you'll NEVER regret as far as drifting setups go

my advice and route if i were you i'd take:

after 2way clutch lsd get decent tires and brake pads/rotors
get a good set of coilovers (be picky and go balls out so you wont have to redo it later down the road)
then a seat (bucket is best)
then slowly replace each arm w/ a pillowball adjustable type setup.

make sure you keep your engine maintenance constant. change fluids frequently

of course in the process of all this, hit the track CONSTANTLY and get as much seat time as you possibly can!! that's the key!!

there's nothing sadder then watching a guy with a flashy car understeer all day. its really painful to watch.


dont make coilovers your top priority
people get caught up in the bling factor of lowering their car and lookingcool.

well if you like looking cool while you understeer all day at the track, kudos for you

i like to see the guy with the 'stock' setup out performaning the guy w/ the 'full blown' setup.

[CoasTek240]

well on budget u'll prolly want all the goodies.. thus go with a shock spring setup to stay with budget.

this is what i'm running:

PDM front STB ($140)
A-spec rear STB from ebay ($26)
battle version t/c rods $210
moog tie rod ends cheap, bought locally
with $ i had saved my my g/f's engagement ring which i recently cashed out bout 1/4 of it, i'm buying JIC FLT a2's, and a VLSD from pdm.

dont forget with all the suspnesion goodies, you need some nice grippy rubber. I just ordered yokahama avs es100's from tire rack.
205/60/15... they were $333 shipped.

well good luck

[kurissuS13]

hmmm... 2-way clutch LSD? do u have any recommendations as which is best bang for ur buck? i like KAAZ, and many have nothing but praise for it. i just don't like their price, even tho they seem to be one of the most cost-efficient out there.

[Dousan_PG]

ah my setup
i cant say prices because of sponsor type prices i get but you get the idea of what i have

tein he coilovers (8/6 kg)
kazama rear upper arms (-4 degrees neg camber)
30mm bolt on spacers (front) (-3.5 degrees neg camber)
tein TC rods
secret sprots mechanical LSD 2 way
greg dupree subframe spacers
do luck rxb
z32 front brakes
spin turn knob
STOCK SWAY BARS

for the bling
kosei K1s (15x7 +27)..well now its -3 w/ the spacer
ssr reverse mesh (driftingpanda's wheels i just borrow them) 15x7.5 +17
205/55/15 tires Dunlop FM901 on all 4


coming soon (next month or this month-some sooner then others)
bride brix (yes a real one)
nismo SSS (full kit)
bv rear toe and front links
kazama tie rod ends


right now..damn, car is SO easy to drift. f'in smooth and sweet. slight pitch and bam sideways and i can guide it thru. i was able to chokudori a few times w/ this set up too and it felt BETTER then it ever has in the past 6 months. im very please. the next stuff up is just basics i should have replaced sooner or was going to. cant wait. right now, im 100% happy w/ my car's setup. just need to work on my skill. but the car feels GOOOOOOOD

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by kurissuS13
hmmm... 2-way clutch LSD? do u have any recommendations as which is best bang for ur buck? i like KAAZ, and many have nothing but praise for it. i just don't like their price, even tho they seem to be one of the most cost-efficient out there.


you wont regret

KAAZ
nismo
cusco
ats


u can get all of those in the USA if you look hard enough
i have a secret sports mechanical
but getting a nismo sss this month sometime...waiting...waiting..

u gotta pay to drift.




LSD is the most important item on a drift car. far beyond any other parts importance.


i can't stress this enough

[kurissuS13]

about tires, what are the advantages of using the recommended types? according to tirerack.com, yokohama avs es100's grip much better than Dunlop FM901, but are pricier. however, the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 performs just as well as the AVS ES100's, but beat their pricing and Dunlop's. i've had Kumho before and i was fine with those, but i've heard that they're aimed at the Street Drag crowd. opinions?

also, has anyone tried those triangulated STB's? in theory, they should perform better, even tho thur's not much to improve on in a STB. anyone have/tried a multi-point STB? also, are they legal for competition? i've heard SCCA doesn't allow them in Solo2.

CoasTek240: moog tie rod ends? i get those for free. having a family-owned auto parts shop OWNZ!

dousan36: i don't think a nismo LSD would work for me. is their a link for Secret Sports? i ran a search and i can't find jack. seems to be a secret... oh, an LSD is the most important part? even more important than a radio?

[mistert]

one important thing to remember with an FC is that if you plan to drift, you need to lock the free-floating rear axles (I.E. 4WS, think of it as a mechanical HICAS system) some way.

a couple good places to check out for rx7 parts are
http://www.rxecret7.com/
and
http://phase2motortrend.com/

[Dousan_PG]

haha i forgot..FC d'oh! used to nissan
secret sports. i dotn know. they are HARD to find. last time i checked their website sucked anyways.

fm901s are grat for beginner. es100s are pretty grippy i hear.

avoid kuhmo!!!!!! my friend ny_jee had them and dislikes them. same goes for another friend. after a few laps they got hot and perform like crap! AVOID!!

i dont know about those STB. lots of hoopla. you just need some generic stbs and your fine. no need to go balls out on small stuff like that. the gains will be minimal is any.

[kurissuS13]

Originally posted by mistert
one important thing to remember with an FC is that if you plan to drift, you need to lock the free-floating rear axles (I.E. 4WS, think of it as a mechanical HICAS system) some way.

a couple good places to check out for rx7 parts are
http://www.rxecret7.com/
and
http://phase2motortrend.com/

is it free-floating rear axles on all the FC's? or is it only in the TII? also, would u happen to kno how to go about locking them? thanx for the links. i'm tryin to familiarize myself with FC sites since all i kno are S13 sites. :p

dousan36: i think i just might get a KAAZ unit. prolly wait until after the next event, tho. see how the car is first, and then get the LSD. that, and i needs to save up. btw, KAAZ only has a 1.5 way. would this still be as effective as a 2-way or should i just look for a 2-way?

[Dousan_PG]

i think 1.5 is like somehtings like deaccell sometimes not
i would say go 2 way if you can, otherwise 1.5 is fine
i've seen peopel drift on 1 way.

its preference. if you think youll regret going 1.5 then wait for 2 haha

[kurissuS13]

i don't think i can regret getting a 1.5-way, since that's all that seems to be in the market. at least in my price range. they only offer 2-ways for Nissans and Toyotas. is it best to go through KAAZ USA themselves, or buy from an authorized dealer and install myself? i hear installation is pretty difficult, but i can save a bundle of $$$.

[Dousan_PG]

personally i say go thru kaaz. you'lll all the tech support and help you need and im sure they might even warrenty it. they will break it in for you too ahdn change fluid.

i wouldnt risk putting in a $700+ unit LSD and goofing up and destroying it, but that's just me.

[kurissuS13]

yeah, i guess ur right. DAMN COMMON SENSE! DAMMIT!

the long arguous wait for money begins...

[adey]

You might consider going through Phase2Motortrend.com for your kaaz needs too, AFAIK they are an authorized dealer, and I've heard nothing but good things about them.

Your response to Dousan's first quasi-flame was absolutely exquisite. I've never heard anyone reply to that kind of message so well. You deserve some respect for that! Dousan can be pretty harsh. ;)

[kurissuS13]

Originally posted by adey
You might consider going through Phase2Motortrend.com for your kaaz needs too, AFAIK they are an authorized dealer, and I've heard nothing but good things about them.

Your response to Dousan's first quasi-flame was absolutely exquisite. I've never heard anyone reply to that kind of message so well. You deserve some respect for that! Dousan can be pretty harsh. ;)

i had checked them out, and that is who i was making reference to about saving money. but, i think i'd rather spend the extra cash to have it professionally installed and broken in. they even say that in their website. haha. if only they actually installed it...

thanx for the support. :D sometimes, u gotta say it like it is. plus, i have a quality that the ladies like. it's called "being submissive." :p

[mistert]

Originally posted by kurissuS13
is it free-floating rear axles on all the FC's? or is it only in the TII? also, would u happen to kno how to go about locking them? thanx for the links. i'm tryin to familiarize myself with FC sites since all i kno are S13 sites. :p

dousan36: i think i just might get a KAAZ unit. prolly wait until after the next event, tho. see how the car is first, and then get the LSD. that, and i needs to save up. btw, KAAZ only has a 1.5 way. would this still be as effective as a 2-way or should i just look for a 2-way?

the free-floating rear is on all FC's, and i believe FD's as well. i'm not sure exactly who makes the locks, but i've seen them on sale before. Tomei or Toda (I forgot which) makes them, i think, whichever it is also makes a set of HICAS locks that mechanically and electronically disables HICAS in silvia/240/gt-r's/300zx's. i think in an FC its just some sort of bushing or ring that locks it in the forward pointing position, something cheap and simple since its not computerized.

if you're looking for info on FC's, www.rx7club.com is the best forum for any RX-7 stuff around, IMO. you can learn alot of things there.

and about your LSD, a 1.5 is better if you plan on having a more streetable car. the 2-way dousan mentioned is really for the more dedicated drift/track car. it's like buying coilovers, you're going to make some tradeoffs here and there between having a high performance track setup and a not so high performance more comfortable and easier to handle setup

[adey]

Agreed re: LSD. I find my 2 way to really be quite aggressive; in day to day driving (i.e. conservative) it still tries, at times, to break the rear end out... not the best thing when you're late for class and driving a little fast around that last corner... :o On the other hand, if you're planning on doing a lot of (heavy) drifting with the car, you do want a 2-way.

If you're doing road race and/or other grip events, I think a 1.5 way may actually be a better choice. Just MHO, and my preliminary opinion before I get to push my car at a grip event.

[DRIFTING_SIL_EIGHTY]

hey dousan you have 300z brakes ??? with 15's ??? i thought they didnt fit. well if they do you think r32 brakes will fit 15's. they are just like the 300z's. i may have read wrong but you said 15x7's so i am curious if this will work. its cuz i might get some r32 brakes all around with rotors and i dont have the money yet for new rims. so if 15's will fit let me know. thanks !

[Maeda]

an aftermarket LSD is a must with a TII seeing as all the stock ones SHOULD be dead due to wear... dont believe me check rx7club.com... i believe it was a mechanical lsd that wore out at 60,000 miles... and depending on the TII year you buy youd be hard pressed to find a car with less then 60,000 or a rebuild for that matter ^_^




:D I love Rotarys, but I love my "truck" Engine more

[kurissuS13]

Originally posted by mistert
the free-floating rear is on all FC's, and i believe FD's as well. i'm not sure exactly who makes the locks, but i've seen them on sale before. Tomei or Toda (I forgot which) makes them, i think, whichever it is also makes a set of HICAS locks that mechanically and electronically disables HICAS in silvia/240/gt-r's/300zx's. i think in an FC its just some sort of bushing or ring that locks it in the forward pointing position, something cheap and simple since its not computerized.

if you're looking for info on FC's, www.rx7club.com is the best forum for any RX-7 stuff around, IMO. you can learn alot of things there.

and about your LSD, a 1.5 is better if you plan on having a more streetable car. the 2-way dousan mentioned is really for the more dedicated drift/track car. it's like buying coilovers, you're going to make some tradeoffs here and there between having a high performance track setup and a not so high performance more comfortable and easier to handle setup

thanx a bunch, mistert! i already browse around RX7club.com, just lookin for parts. i'll register there once i buy the FC TII that i've been checkin out for the past few days. right now, i think i might be buyin extra beater wheels for track events before i get a LSD. i don't wanna be driftin on the wheels that i need to go to class with the next day. :D

also, could someone explain to me how a 1.5-way would be beneficial, or how a 2-way is detrimental, for grip events? i still plan to auto-x, assuming auto-x and drift events aren't scheduled on the same day, as they have been in the past. i will eventually be getting a 1.5-way, mainly because it's all that is available/affordable. however, i'd like to kno just for the sake of knowing.

[kurissuS13]

Originally posted by Maeda
an aftermarket LSD is a must with a TII seeing as all the stock ones SHOULD be dead due to wear... dont believe me check rx7club.com... i believe it was a mechanical lsd that wore out at 60,000 miles... and depending on the TII year you buy youd be hard pressed to find a car with less then 60,000 or a rebuild for that matter ^_^




:D I love Rotarys, but I love my "truck" Engine more

i think that might be the case with TII i've been checkin out. it's 130k+ miles, so the differential should be at least on it's last leg. plus, it's a 87, even more evidence that i should get a LSD first and foremost.

btw, i loved my truck engine. i miss it's rattling. :( damn ricers made it too hard to find a decent S13 for cheap, and the ones that were cheap had problems so bad that they were actually issues. i'm just lucky that the ricers are afraid of rotaries! :D

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by DRIFTING_SIL_EIGHTY
hey dousan you have 300z brakes ??? with 15's ??? i thought they didnt fit. well if they do you think r32 brakes will fit 15's. they are just like the 300z's. i may have read wrong but you said 15x7's so i am curious if this will work. its cuz i might get some r32 brakes all around with rotors and i dont have the money yet for new rims. so if 15's will fit let me know. thanks !


yeah they fit.
r32? why. why waste money? if you are paying more for them then z32 then your dumb.

and dependin which r32 model you are getting, you might NOT be able to find parts. not all r32 calipesr/rotors/pads are same as z. some have different rotor sizes

dont ask me which one, cuz i don tknow. z calipesr are pretty much the same thing (there are differences)

[adey]

d00d Dousan, you wake up WAY too early. :)

Green Ranger: Go for the Z32 brake swap; unless you're going for a show car, you don't need the R32 GTR Spec-V Brembo 4 and 2 pot calipers. ;) The Z32s are already overkill!

[DRIFTING_SIL_EIGHTY]

hey thanks for the info dousan. well its seems like a good deal cuz they are r32 calipers, cross drilled rotors (what company not sure) and prject mu pads. all four corners for $300. now the z set-up i think i can get for around the same price but not sure yet. its either those and just run sum good pads on stock calipers with slightly used rotors for $50. well ima do sum searchin tonight so hopefully i make the right choice. once again thanks for the info and are you going to the garage sale tomorrow ?

[Dousan_PG]

yeah ill be there..whenever i get up. inever buy anything, i get it cheap enough normally for apex stuff.