Chevy SS and Cadillac V series cancelled!!!!!!

[VROOOM]

looks like the economy just took out a few more awesome cars.

BREAKING: GM disbands High Performance Vehicle Operations - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/18/breaking-gm-disbands-high-performance-vehicle-operations/)

[exitspeed]

I don't even want to talk about this right now. Shit just sucks.

[Enna]

... and didn't the ZR1 just come out a lil while back? I dont think it would be included in that, but who knows. First GM vehicle that came to mind lol. Guess I'll be getting an older car in the end.

[ryguy]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. If that what it takes for GM to survive, so be it.

[karl wasabi]

... and didn't the ZR1 just come out a lil while back? I dont think it would be included in that, but who knows. First GM vehicle that came to mind lol. Guess I'll be getting an older car in the end.

It didn't say anything about the ZR1 in that article. Most likely won't get cut out...I think.

[jrocslider]

so sad to hear.

i could care less about the cobalt but the CTS-V?

such a great car.

[VROOOM]

so sad to hear.

i could care less about the cobalt but the CTS-V?

such a great car.

Cobalt is cool it owns Evo X around the track.

[exitspeed]

Cobalt is cool it owns Evo X around the track.

As well as the STi and Elise on the Ring. The Cobalt SS is the best bang for your buck track car on the market right now. PERIOD. only drawbacks to it is the interior is 'eh and the exterior is rather tame. But performance wise is simply can't be beat for the price and then some. It's like a true poor mans ZR1 in that sense.

[LongGrain]

Cobalt is cool it owns Evo X around the track.

yea but it looks like shit so no one cares...

[twotoes]

omg this sure is a shitty time to have our hobby....

[raz0rbladez909]

there is also talk of offing the entire saturn lineup from what i read on yahoo Brands: What Stays, What Goes- Yahoo! Autos Article Page (http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/858/brands-what-stays-what-goes;_ylt=ArqdgmbrUSlV9VOJ_4CL.jUazJV4)

[HyperTek]

As well as the STi and Elise on the Ring. The Cobalt SS is the best bang for your buck track car on the market right now. PERIOD. only drawbacks to it is the interior is 'eh and the exterior is rather tame. But performance wise is simply can't be beat for the price and then some. It's like a true poor mans ZR1 in that sense.

sadly its not japanese so the fanboys will not buy into it. :duh:

[lucky7]

this have anything to do with getting more money from the govt?? i wouldnt doubt it. "you have to make all 'green' cars if you want monies from us!"

[exitspeed]

this have anything to do with getting more money from the govt?? i wouldnt doubt it. "you have to make all 'green' cars if you want monies from us!"

They had to have their plans due to the Gov the other day and this was part of their restructuring plan.

[lucky7]

hmmm, i hadnt heard. interesting.

[ryguy]

It didn't say anything about the ZR1 in that article. Most likely won't get cut out...I think.

Because Corvette is run as it's own separate "division", I would assume they oversee the ZR1, not the regular GM Performance division. Could be wrong though.The Sting Ray concept GM has makes me wonder if the rumors about Corvette being spun off into it's own brand are true.

[RiversideS13]

they are nice car but just stupid dealers mark up those shits high, so they dont sell well.

[VROOOM]

yea but it looks like shit so no one cares...

thats the best part, when a rental car hands you your ass. they are getting almost 300whp and 340tq with just a tune no parts at all just a hptuners tune. it takes a shit load of work to get an SR to that.

[illvialuver]

yea but it looks like shit so no one cares...

I second that. To me it is like the guys that would put 383s in a pinto and run 12s and 11s, at the end of the day it is still an ugly pento.

It sucks that this is what it comes to to the American market, but this is what happens, when some retard is getting paid 50+ dollars an hour to push a button and watch a conveyor line due to the demands of a crooked auto labor union, than this is what you get.
I would not have bought either of the cars anyway.

[blownmotor]

They're going to cancel their M5 killer!!

[murda-c]

The way i read it they were saying the engineers won't be designing new hi performance models, not that they would stop building the ones already in the lineup.

[ro240sx]

Nooooooo not the CTS-V. It is my favorite Cadillac.

[SexPanda]

SHIT!! I heard this but I didnt believe it...

Any word on the new Camaro? I mean... damn. A camaro without an SS or Z28 will be an abortion. And they've already sold the first year.

[blueshark123]

SHIT!! I heard this but I didnt believe it...

Any word on the new Camaro? I mean... damn. A camaro without an SS or Z28 will be an abortion. And they've already sold the first year.

Im pretty sure they are going to continue with the camaros being ss or z28. That would be commiting suicide if they stoped the production of them.

[Bubbles]

thats the best part, when a rental car hands you your ass. they are getting almost 300whp and 340tq with just a tune no parts at all just a hptuners tune. it takes a shit load of work to get an SR to that.


It could be done for less than 25 grand.

[Gnnr]

yea but it looks like shit so no one cares...

Quoted for truth.

[RedStage]

well...give everything a few years. this might endup being like what Nissan had to go through. Better to trim down and survive, than to go belly up.

[exitspeed]

SHIT!! I heard this but I didnt believe it...

Any word on the new Camaro? I mean... damn. A camaro without an SS or Z28 will be an abortion. And they've already sold the first year.

Yes there has been confirmation from GM that the SS Camaro is ok. The Z29 Camro however has not existed in this gen and there has not been plans for it despite public demand. This is just going to need to run it's course.



*

[ryguy]

Im pretty sure they are going to continue with the camaros being ss or z28. That would be commiting suicide if they stoped the production of them.

I thought the SS was just a trim level anyways, abeit with a V8.

[TheTimanator]

the Z06 and ZR1 are safe as well as the CTS-V and Camaro SS

http://www.egmcartech.com/2009/02/19/chevrolet-camaro-ss-zr1-z06-cadillac-cts-v-safe-from-hpvo-death/

[98s14inaz]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. If that what it takes for GM to survive, so be it.

The whole point of the bail out was to keep jobs. So GM is giving more and more programs the axe, closing factories, and laying off employees. Brilliant. Too little too late.

[OptionZero]

The whole point of the bailout was to keep jobs that were viable, not to keep all jobs period.

Since part of the big3's downfall was overemployment (and as a result, lots of cars being built that shouldn't have been built and money spent on wages on people actually working),
reducing programs, closing factories, and laying off employees is aimed at bringing the employment more in line with actual need.

Example:

You currently employ 1 million people.

Your production only requires 500k people to meet demand.

You are paying the other 500k to do nothing. Those people cost money, but are adding no value to your company. In fact, they are negatively impacting your company by forcing it to spend money on . . . nothing.

Overtime, if your income falters (like when the economy slows), that money you spend on nothing drags your company into the red. At that point you can't even pay the 500k employees you actually need, much less the other 500k who were standing around collecting paychecks for no work.

If that problem continues long enough, the company then disappears . . . along with all 1 million jobs. Cutting the unneeded 500k would have helped the company stay in existence, so it could continue employing the 500k that it needed.

If that was too complicated, it boils down to this:
The big3 need to cut employment in order to save other employees.


Now, what you are saying is that the bailout is to "keep jobs" - that's not correct. You assert that the bailout is intended to help pay for the whole 1 million employees . . . and that would be patently stupid. While a cash infusion might pay for those 1M salaries for a while, what happens when that extra cash runs out? You still have a company wasting money on unnecessary labor costs that will eventually shrivel up and die, which means no employment at all.


Yet another analogy:
You are bleeding profusely from a gunshot wound. You would like to stop bleeding. I lend you money.

Would you spend the money on:
1) lots of bandaids

or

2) surgery

Your assertion that the bailout was to "keep jobs" would be equivalent to saying that the money I'm lending you is to "stop bleeding." Hey, bandaids stop bleeding but surgery might make me bleed more! I think i'll spend money on bandaids!

As I mentioned, that view is remarkably shortsighted and narrow minded; moreover, that view is wrong.

[Dirty Habit]

lol........

[worangejuice]

they just need to get rid of all the stupid subsidiaries and stop fakin the funk, just downsize to chevy and cadillac.
stupids



Yet another analogy:
You are bleeding profusely from a gunshot wound. You would like to stop bleeding. I lend you money.

Would you spend the money on:
1) lots of bandaids

or

2) surgery

Your assertion that the bailout was to "keep jobs" would be equivalent to saying that the money I'm lending you is to "stop bleeding." Hey, bandaids stop bleeding but surgery might make me bleed more! I think i'll spend money on bandaids!

As I mentioned, that view is remarkably shortsighted and narrow minded; moreover, that view is wrong.


nice

[VROOOM]

It could be done for less than 25 grand.

sure it could, but the Cobalt SS would have a factory warranty. wouldnt have to worry about getting a ref ticket either.

[ryguy]

sure it could, but the Cobalt SS would have a factory warranty. wouldnt have to worry about getting a ref ticket either.

Not to mention it could still take an S13 around the track.

[98s14inaz]

The whole point of the bailout was to keep jobs that were viable, not to keep all jobs period.

Since part of the big3's downfall was overemployment (and as a result, lots of cars being built that shouldn't have been built and money spent on wages on people actually working),
reducing programs, closing factories, and laying off employees is aimed at bringing the employment more in line with actual need.

Example:

You currently employ 1 million people.

Your production only requires 500k people to meet demand.

You are paying the other 500k to do nothing. Those people cost money, but are adding no value to your company. In fact, they are negatively impacting your company by forcing it to spend money on . . . nothing.

Overtime, if your income falters (like when the economy slows), that money you spend on nothing drags your company into the red. At that point you can't even pay the 500k employees you actually need, much less the other 500k who were standing around collecting paychecks for no work.

If that problem continues long enough, the company then disappears . . . along with all 1 million jobs. Cutting the unneeded 500k would have helped the company stay in existence, so it could continue employing the 500k that it needed.

If that was too complicated, it boils down to this:
The big3 need to cut employment in order to save other employees.


Now, what you are saying is that the bailout is to "keep jobs" - that's not correct. You assert that the bailout is intended to help pay for the whole 1 million employees . . . and that would be patently stupid. While a cash infusion might pay for those 1M salaries for a while, what happens when that extra cash runs out? You still have a company wasting money on unnecessary labor costs that will eventually shrivel up and die, which means no employment at all.


Yet another analogy:
You are bleeding profusely from a gunshot wound. You would like to stop bleeding. I lend you money.

Would you spend the money on:
1) lots of bandaids

or

2) surgery

Your assertion that the bailout was to "keep jobs" would be equivalent to saying that the money I'm lending you is to "stop bleeding." Hey, bandaids stop bleeding but surgery might make me bleed more! I think i'll spend money on bandaids!

As I mentioned, that view is remarkably shortsighted and narrow minded; moreover, that view is wrong.

You missed my point and there is no reason to be a smart ass. The Union has out lived it's usefulness, it's a cancer imho. All these legacy employees and those making way too much for the work they do should get a pay cut as well as execs all the way up the chain. I am all for trimming fat but unemployed people don't buy cars or anything else for that matter. The money should have been used to stabilize the company and it's operations which in turn will buy them time to institute pay cuts. I'd rather have a pay cut than be unemployed as long as everyone up the chain gets one too. Americans have not always been this selfish.

[ryguy]

The money should have been used to stabilize the company and it's operations which in turn will buy them time to institute pay cuts. I'd rather have a pay cut than be unemployed as long as everyone up the chain gets one too. Americans have not always been this selfish.

What the hell do you think they're trying to do? They are stabilizing the company, there is NO OTHER WAY to do it than to slash the workforce. Do you even comprehend how much cash GM is burning every month right now paying all those extra employees? GM had only two options- cut half the employees immediately so that the other half could keep their jobs, or let the company die and turn all the employees out into the street.

[Bubbles]

sure it could, but the Cobalt SS would have a factory warranty. wouldnt have to worry about getting a ref ticket either.


This further proves my point. You're comparing two things that really aren't that similar and you're using anything you can to point out an advantage.


Not to mention it could still take an S13 around the track.


Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!


Could it take an S13 with 25 grand in it? that's the only decent comparison you can make.

[98s14inaz]

What the hell do you think they're trying to do? They are stabilizing the company, there is NO OTHER WAY to do it than to slash the workforce. Do you even comprehend how much cash GM is burning every month right now paying all those extra employees? GM had only two options- cut half the employees immediately so that the other half could keep their jobs, or let the company die and turn all the employees out into the street.

Unemployed people don't buy stuff. Stuff includes houses, cars, electronics, etc. Some people are going to lose their jobs, I'm not arguing that fact...omelet/egg argument. The middle class worker is not responsible for this problem and shouldn't bear the burden of fixing it while the big shots walk away with out a scratch.

[ryguy]

Unemployed people don't buy stuff. Stuff includes houses, cars, electronics, etc. Some people are going to lose their jobs, I'm not arguing that fact...omelet/egg argument. The middle class worker is not responsible for this problem and shouldn't bear the burden of fixing it while the big shots walk away with out a scratch.

500,000 employed people sure buy a lot more than a million unemployed people. There is no way to fix GM other than slashing working class jobs. You said yourself that the corrupt union was to blame, and I would put my money on the fact that at least half of the jobs lost were jobs unnecessarily forced on GM by the union. Rick Wagoner is taking a $1 a year salary, and pay raises and bonuses have been suspended for white collar employees. I would think there is a lot less fat in the white collar population than in the blue collar population.

[exitspeed]

Could it take an S13 with 25 grand in it? that's the only decent comparison you can make.

I hate when people try to make this comparison. No it's not a decent comparison. I'll give you one quick reason. No one with $25 grand in a 240 has ever ran it on the Ring. You can't compare the two.