review: stance GR+ pro

[racepar1]

I just installed a set of stance GR+ pro coils on my s-13 and this weekend was the first time I had a chance to get them both on the freeway and the track. I must say that I am quite impressed. The ride quality is better then my flexes was, which surprised the hell out of me. The coilovers also performed VERY well on the track. The car was a bit more easily un-settled by bumps on the track, but nothing scary. The stances seemed to control body movement MUCH better then the flexes on track though. The car was neither bouncy nor jarring anywhere, not even once. I am running 9/6 springs, stock 25 mil front sway, no rear sway, and the dampening was set at 9 of 16 front and rear. The spring rates and sway bars felt spot-on as the car was absolutely perfectly balanced everywhere. I LOVE the rear helper springs too! Anyone who does not have helper springs on their rear coils on their 240 should get them! My only gripes with the stances are the quality of the upper mount bearings and the durometer of the rubber bushings on the lower shock mounts. The upper mount bearings are way too tight. So much so that the spring would pop when I turned the wheel as the bearing was not rotating. After running them at the track the front upper mount bearings seemed to free up a bit though. The durometer of the rear lower mount bushing seems to be too soft to me. All in all though I would highly reccomend the stances to anyone who cannot afford to spend $2k on a set of coils. We shall see how they stand up to the test of time.


EDIT: This all REALLY surprised me as I used to feel that the stances were overrated. On my buddy's car they felt like crap, way stiff and jarring. Now I see that the problem on his car was how the dampening was set and the fact that he had energy bushings that needed to be re-lubed with no adjustable arms. My car has all the adjustable arms and energy bushings with zerk fittings installed so they are easy to grease. It is amazing how much better they feel on my car then his.

[RAMM]

I also run GR+'s and enjoy them on a road course. I can't wait till the summer!!!!

Racepar - whats the raceweight? tire compound?

[racepar1]

The car itself weighs about 2400lbs with 1/2 tank of gas and I was running 235/40/17 ra1's.

[Z33dori]

yea i would highly recommend these to any non-ballers


pretty much the best bang for the buck coilover on the market. hell even the reg. GR+ are wonderful

[DreamN]

I <3 my GR+ Pros :D

[e1_griego]

Ha, I'm amused that I was strongly considering buying your flexes to replace my gr+ pros. Glad I didn't :P

My buddy is wondering if you shipped those flexes as he actually did buy them lol.

[DeadlyZ33]

Just ordered some stance's for my z33, can't wait to slam the damn shit out of it. ;p

[chadca18s13]

I <3 my GR+ Pros :D

x2

the only thing i dont like about em is trying to drink coffee in the morning while driving haha! (stiff and = coffee stains on my white shirts)

[Firestorm]

x2

the only thing i dont like about em is trying to drink coffee in the morning while driving haha! (stiff and = coffee stains on my white shirts)

get a cup with a cap, that's how i roll :snoop:

on a more serious note...i'm very interested in a set of stance coils as well, since my bridgestone's seemed to have reached the end of their life span and i don't want to get them rebuilt because i wasn't too happy with them anyway...

at first i looked into some stance 3-ways but it seems a little overkill for me, so maybe i'll look into them gr+ pro's...we'll see.

[LongGrain]

glad you like them

i love mine. only problem i had was the rear lower sleeve/bushing disconnected from the body of the mount so my coil could slide back and forth between the knuckle and washer/bolt. i mentioned this to TF last time i was there and they just handed me a set of new lower mounts, no questions asked.

[palmdale_mob]

Yeah these are great coils
Rockin the GR+ Pros myself

[racepar1]

glad you like them

i love mine. only problem i had was the rear lower sleeve/bushing disconnected from the body of the mount so my coil could slide back and forth between the knuckle and washer/bolt. i mentioned this to TF last time i was there and they just handed me a set of new lower mounts, no questions asked.

I think I'm going to go with z-32 rear uprights anyways. I gotta call up stance or one of their distributors and see if I can get a set of rear lower mounts for z-32 rear uprights.

[[email protected]]

how low is your car

[GSXRJJordan]

I went from Tanabe Sustec Pro Sevens on my S13 to Stance GR+ (not Pro) on my S14, and the Stance coils have about 80% of the damping adjustment that the Tanabes had - overall, an extremely good value.

Someday down the line I'll cage the JefeS14 and get some nice "road course" suspension goin on, with Koni 86xx or try the Stance 3-ways. From my motorcycle experience, 3- and 4-way adjustment really does make the difference between "good" and "subliminal" control of the car through the corners - and it's a good indication of damper quality as well (no one's going to make a shitty 3- or 4-way damper).

glad you like them

i love mine. only problem i had was the rear lower sleeve/bushing disconnected from the body of the mount so my coil could slide back and forth between the knuckle and washer/bolt. i mentioned this to TF last time i was there and they just handed me a set of new lower mounts, no questions asked.

Common problem with the early models I heard - and everything I've heard about it is like you said - Stance (and their distributors) stand behind their products.

I think I'm going to go with z-32 rear uprights anyways. I gotta call up stance or one of their distributors and see if I can get a set of rear lower mounts for z-32 rear uprights.

They certainly can, I believe they're about $70?

[Sthrteen]

I have GR+ on my s13 and LOVE them.

[WhiteTE72GT]

I have stance gr coilovers too, no complaints here!

[racepar1]

how low is your car

Not low at all and it never will be. I'm a track guy, low cars are for hard parkers and amateur drifters. The pro drifters don't slam their shit anymore either.

[JoHn E]

how low is your car


if u r worried about them not being able to go low enough dont worry , cus they can go pretty low

[LoanShark]

Have GR+ w/ Swift assist springs for the rear. Think its 5k rated. Cant remember. I'll tell a story about them as soon as the snows melt and the deer paths open up.

[Jdm.I.Am]

i love my GR+PRO's but for the price i would just buy some PSM coilovers.. feel about the same to me.

[ManoNegra]

I got mine right when they started
before the various designations
installed them, took them to West End Alignment
had the car corner balanced and aligned
and loved the ride quality
did have the issue with the sticky camber plates
and only just now did I ask Stance about it (over 2 years)
when I bought Z-32 rears
they gave me a used set even though I was out of warranty
can't go wrong with customer service like that

[miracosta]

how is stance compared to megan coilovers? i know k sport is total shit.

[Sileighty_85]

how is stance compared to megan coilovers? i know k sport is total shit.

Megans Suck Balls

To put simply

Megan=FTL
Stance=FTW

[fromxtor]

I wonder if you can add helper springs to the GR+, I have a set and need to install them. Racepar, be expecting a PM about your current other suspension bits.

[lflkajfj12123]

Not low at all and it never will be. I'm a track guy, low cars are for hard parkers and amateur drifters. The pro drifters don't slam their shit anymore either.

ugggggghhhhhhh

[racepar1]

ugggggghhhhhhh

It's the truth whether you like it or not.

LOW = sLOW

Sorry, physics and geometry are a bitch.

[timlush]

I think I'm going to go with z-32 rear uprights anyways. I gotta call up stance or one of their distributors and see if I can get a set of rear lower mounts for z-32 rear uprights.

I just got a set from Touge Factory for $85 shipped.

[murda-c]

I think people put torrington bearings on top of their springs under the camber plate to get rid of the binding problem.

[miracosta]

so stance is the best coilovers to go with????? if stance is better than megan and ksport.... is it better then tein and apexi dampers? i want to know which one is best

[GSXRJJordan]

i love my GR+PRO's but for the price i would just buy some PSM coilovers.. feel about the same to me.

No comparison - Parts Shop Max (or Powered By Max) are totally decent track-only dampers, but are way too stiff for roadrace or street driving. My Tanabe Sevens had the same 10/8 springs, and behaved MUCH better.

installed them, took them to West End Alignment
had the car corner balanced and aligned
and loved the ride quality

How much was your corner balance? If it's like $200, I might be down.

so stance is the best coilovers to go with????? if stance is better than megan and ksport.... is it better then tein and apexi dampers? i want to know which one is best

Racepar was using Tein Flex's and said he liked his Stance a lot better - the HE's or Superdrifts are good coils though, but much more expensive. Apexi are similar to Megan, just valved a bit different, and feel OK.

Aside from Stance (and especially my Tanabe Sevens), the coils I liked the valving on were the Silkroads and JIC's. Both are more expensive than Stance, and not rebuildable in the US though.

[Bubbles]

Not low at all and it never will be. I'm a total nerd.


Sorry to hear that.

:bigok:

[racepar1]

Sorry to hear that.

:bigok:

I'm a geek, get it right. Nerds are useless, geeks are smart, just un-cool. I'd rather be a fast geek then a slow cool guy.

[Quigs]

I just ordered some GR+ Pro's to replace my crappy Ksports. I'm very excited. My buddy has them on his coupe and the ride quality is so much better than mine. I don't even mind my ride quality too much, so I'm hoping these will be heaven haha.

[Koopa Troopa]

It's the truth whether you like it or not.

LOW = sLOW

Not when your dampers are 1" 1/4 shorter than OEM. :cool:


x2

the only thing i dont like about em is trying to drink coffee in the morning while driving haha! (stiff and = coffee stains on my white shirts)
That's not good then. My Spoon N1's are running 18/16 spring rates and my car doesn't feel like that. Sounds like poor valving to me.

[SoSideways]

I wonder if you can add helper springs to the GR+, I have a set and need to install them. Racepar, be expecting a PM about your current other suspension bits.

Yeah I asked Scott at TF/Stance about that, he said you could do that. Just hit him up and he'll hook you up man.


That's not good then. My Spoon N1's are running 18/16 spring rates and my car doesn't feel like that. Sounds like poor valving to me.

Yeah but you're talking about a Honda chassis, probably with double wishbone suspension, which has completely different wheel rates than the S-chassis's suspension.

You're comparing apples to watermelons, can't compare those 2 like that.

[miracosta]

No comparison - Parts Shop Max (or Powered By Max) are totally decent track-only dampers, but are way too stiff for roadrace or street driving. My Tanabe Sevens had the same 10/8 springs, and behaved MUCH better.



How much was your corner balance? If it's like $200, I might be down.



Racepar was using Tein Flex's and said he liked his Stance a lot better - the HE's or Superdrifts are good coils though, but much more expensive. Apexi are similar to Megan, just valved a bit different, and feel OK.

Aside from Stance (and especially my Tanabe Sevens), the coils I liked the valving on were the Silkroads and JIC's. Both are more expensive than Stance, and not rebuildable in the US though.

sweet thanks bro, i guess ill rock the stance then mwahahaha. thanks again.

[Koopa Troopa]

Yeah I asked Scott at TF/Stance about that, he said you could do that. Just hit him up and he'll hook you up man.



Yeah but you're talking about a Honda chassis, probably with double wishbone suspension, which has completely different wheel rates than the S-chassis's suspension.

You're comparing apples to watermelons, can't compare those 2 like that.

Nah but it's all the same in terms of valving. Suspension valved like shit rides in the way that guy described. Rough, cant drink shit while driving... I have a harder time trying to drink/ grub and drive while in my friend's bone stock Corolla sedan than in my Civic.

[racepar1]

Nah but it's all the same in terms of valving. Suspension valved like shit rides in the way that guy described. Rough, cant drink shit while driving... I have a harder time trying to drink/ grub and drive while in my friend's bone stock Corolla sedan than in my Civic.

The guy complaining about the ride with the stances probably has whack suspension set-up and has the adjusters almost all the way stiff. The uneducated seem to think that stiffer is almost always better. Idiots.....

Hell in my car on the way to willow springs I could hardly even feel the joints in the freeway. With my flexes I felt every single one.

[chuonthis]

You definitely need to play around with the adjusters to figure out what works best for your driving conditions. When I first got my Stance GR+ Pros, I thought "I want a soft ride so I'll set the adjusters to the softest or 1 or 2 clicks up". I thought the ride was horrible daily driving. I played with all different combinations of settings between the front and rear adjusters while staying under 4-5 clicks. Nothing felt right, the ride was always bouncy as hell. I thought to myself, "Why were people lying when they said that Stance coilovers felt like sporty OEM suspension when set to the softest settings?!" That was until I understood the mechanics of dampers more (not saying I know anything, just more than I did before).

I realized that for me, I had to have at least 6 clicks on the adjusters to have enough rebound for the 8/6 springs. Anything less resulted in a bouncy ride. I could be driving on the smoothest road and I would just be bouncing up and down for no reason. Once I set it to 6 clicks all around though, the ride was a lot better. Basically no more uncontrollable bouncing. When the road was smooth, the ride was smooth. The problem now was that the compression was a bit higher than ideal for daily driving so bumps would be felt a bit harder. Still, the ride felt pretty solid and I was happy with them overall.

I tried 7-8 clicks on the street but the compression was way too high then. On the track (grip and drift) though, I ran 8-10 clicks and was able to use the adjusters to dial out under/over steer as needed. I don't have enough suspension knowledge to be able to say anything other than they felt pretty good and were fun to drive on.

[SoSideways]

After looking around, it seems that Stance GR+'s dampers don't really change compression damping too much. The adjustment seems to affect rebound mostly.

[mkiv98]

+1 on stance, comfortable when your seat is mounted correctly!!

[Def]

After looking around, it seems that Stance GR+'s dampers don't really change compression damping too much. The adjustment seems to affect rebound mostly.

They do have quite a bit of cross-talk if you believe the shock dynos. Looking at a percentage change it does dial in quite a bit of compression damping from soft to hard.

No idea if it's too much or not, as I am not a huge dynamics guy.

[lflkajfj12123]

It's the truth whether you like it or not.

LOW = sLOW

Sorry, physics and geometry are a bitch.

NOTHING wrong with LOW cars

its the suspension that is wrong

fix that

[racepar1]

NOTHING wrong with LOW cars

its the suspension that is wrong

fix that

Not so simple. The ONLY lower control arms that are good right out of the box are the ikeya formula ones. It's $1200 just for the fronts!

[GSXRJJordan]

Not so simple. The ONLY lower control arms that are good right out of the box are the ikeya formula ones. It's $1200 just for the fronts!

Funny you mention that - Luke (Blu808) and I were discussing this on AIM yesterday, and plan to make some that are functionally very similar - they'll offer front track adjustment (moarrrrrr camber for the dorifto crowd) via heim joint, and a roll center adjuster. I'm trying to keep the cost down, so the roll center adjuster so far is the most expensive part - I'm trying to actually adjust the height of the ball joint, rather than just the perch that the knuckle attaches to, but anyway, we'll have something to add to the *fab thread* eventually :)

[ManoNegra]

How much was your corner balance? If it's like $200, I might be down.


It was in the ball park, but again, this was a few years ago
surprising what corner balancing can do for a car
I had HEs on my old S14, just threw them on and hated them
friend has them on his hatch which he balanced, still stiff as fuck
but so much better ride quality.
-juan

[GSXRJJordan]

It was in the ball park, but again, this was a few years ago
surprising what corner balancing can do for a car
I had HEs on my old S14, just threw them on and hated them
friend has them on his hatch which he balanced, still stiff as fuck
but so much better ride quality.
-juan

Yeah I know mine are out of whack just because the car acts differently when certain corners loose traction/get bumped. I figure I'll finish reinforcing my chassis and playing with wheel size (and ride height), then look into it.

[lflkajfj12123]

haraguchi raises his subframe up to fix geometry

[alkemyst]

anyone a/b KTS(SPL) coilovers and these?

The nice thing about coilovers is you can run low on the street and raise the vehicle up to correct geometry on the track along with corner-weighting.

[ManoNegra]

lol... think this thread has gotten way out off topic.

[drift freaq]

Funny you mention that - Luke (Blu808) and I were discussing this on AIM yesterday, and plan to make some that are functionally very similar - they'll offer front track adjustment (moarrrrrr camber for the dorifto crowd) via heim joint, and a roll center adjuster. I'm trying to keep the cost down, so the roll center adjuster so far is the most expensive part - I'm trying to actually adjust the height of the ball joint, rather than just the perch that the knuckle attaches to, but anyway, we'll have something to add to the *fab thread* eventually :)

Sign me up for these Jeff! LOL Oh and to keep the thread on track, Aron, Racepar1 actually called me from the track he was so impressed with these things. Me suffering from the Flu had a good laugh at that. It takes a lot to make Aron do something like that.
Now the big question is How are the Koni's we are building for my car going to feel comparatively. I am sure they will feel better but shit for off the shelf at $950 the Stance seem to be a decent deal.

[Odysseus]

I have the GR+ and love them. I also have the helper springs to make them into Pros but have no idea how they go on? Anyone got pics?

[singlecamslam]

my gr+ pros feel stiff even when they're set to one click. I set the preload just like stance said to do it, and car feel way stiff, not bouncy or jarring, just stiff. Like when you go over a bump you can feel the whole car absorbing the bump with you aswell, i dont know how to explain it.. is this normal? My car is all stock except the stances.

[LongGrain]

I have the GR+ and love them. I also have the helper springs to make them into Pros but have no idea how they go on? Anyone got pics?

normal spring
spacer (gold washer thing)
helper spring
spacer
collar
collar

[GSXRJJordan]

my gr+ pros feel stiff even when they're set to one click. I set the preload just like stance said to do it, and car feel way stiff, not bouncy or jarring, just stiff. Like when you go over a bump you can feel the whole car absorbing the bump with you aswell, i dont know how to explain it.. is this normal? My car is all stock except the stances.

If the car is "absorbing" the bump, that means that if say the right front tire hits a bump, the other 3 don't move - this is what stock suspension does.

I think what you mean is that the car is stiffer - it's not until you take a turn and feel how much more traction you have in the corners that you'll really appreciate them.

[Bubbles]

SERIOUS QUESTION:

Why are these called Stance and built shorter if they aren't intended for low cars?

[sac]

I'm a geek, get it right. Nerds are useless, geeks are smart, just un-cool. I'd rather be a fast geek then a slow cool guy.
Spittin strait truth right there!
Funny you mention that - Luke (Blu808) and I were discussing this on AIM yesterday, and plan to make some that are functionally very similar - they'll offer front track adjustment (moarrrrrr camber for the dorifto crowd) via heim joint, and a roll center adjuster. I'm trying to keep the cost down, so the roll center adjuster so far is the most expensive part - I'm trying to actually adjust the height of the ball joint, rather than just the perch that the knuckle attaches to, but anyway, we'll have something to add to the *fab thread* eventually :)

I too have talked with Luke about the LCA.. cant wait. Hope to get one of the first sets that are made..

I ordered up a set of AL+pro for my s14 w/z32 rear upright from a zilvia advertiser. Best pricing from ANYWHERE else i could find. PM me if interested.

[MrChow]

I went from Tanabe Sustec Pro Sevens on my S13 to Stance GR+ (not Pro) on my S14, and the Stance coils have about 80% of the damping adjustment that the Tanabes had - overall, an extremely good value.

No comparison - Parts Shop Max (or Powered By Max) are totally decent track-only dampers, but are way too stiff for roadrace or street driving. My Tanabe Sevens had the same 10/8 springs, and behaved MUCH better.

Aside from Stance (and especially my Tanabe Sevens), the coils I liked the valving on were the Silkroads and JIC's. Both are more expensive than Stance, and not rebuildable in the US though.
I've been look at Tanabe Sevens but never can find good reviews about them. You care to write up a review about them??

Funny you mention that - Luke (Blu808) and I were discussing this on AIM yesterday, and plan to make some that are functionally very similar - they'll offer front track adjustment (moarrrrrr camber for the dorifto crowd) via heim joint, and a roll center adjuster. I'm trying to keep the cost down, so the roll center adjuster so far is the most expensive part - I'm trying to actually adjust the height of the ball joint, rather than just the perch that the knuckle attaches to, but anyway, we'll have something to add to the *fab thread* eventually :)
Sigh me up too!!
SERIOUS QUESTION:

Why are these called Stance and built shorter if they aren't intended for low cars?
Come again???

Back to the thread. I personally have GR+ Pro for close 2 years. I got these used from BrainFood. Great coils for the cost.
I can wait to corner balance the on these and get all arms.

[SilviaSR20DET]

any you guys had your stance's rebuilt? If so, how much do they charge? I had my coilover on my s14 for about 3 years i think on the softest setting, how can you tell it needs a rebuild? I want to head to the track this year.

[SoSideways]

any you guys had your stance's rebuilt? If so, how much do they charge? I had my coilover on my s14 for about 3 years i think on the softest setting, how can you tell it needs a rebuild? I want to head to the track this year.

They sell replacement shocks.

So when you get them, you just take the camber plates, springs, collars, and brackets off of your old coilovers, then swap them onto the new shocks.

Done and done.

How do you know if your coilovers are blown? Are they super bouncy? Does the adjusters on there do anything? Have you pulled the rubber dust covers back to see if there has been any fluid leaks?

[racepar1]

my gr+ pros feel stiff even when they're set to one click. I set the preload just like stance said to do it, and car feel way stiff, not bouncy or jarring, just stiff. Like when you go over a bump you can feel the whole car absorbing the bump with you aswell, i dont know how to explain it.. is this normal? My car is all stock except the stances.

Pre-load is bad, don't preload your springs, EVER. In the rear I did compress the tender spring some on mine, but that isn't really pre-load.

[kapowerhicomp1]

Pre-load is bad, don't preload your springs, EVER. In the rear I did compress the tender spring some on mine, but that isn't really pre-load. this year l plan to do a lot of work on the suspension need your help...... the set up l want is for the track.... plan to get competition dot tires...you know it.... plan to make many stop to your shop soon........... are you coming to the meet today..... if so l see you there......kapower out....................................

[singlecamslam]

Pre-load is bad, don't preload your springs, EVER. In the rear I did compress the tender spring some on mine, but that isn't really pre-load.

I did what the instruction said to do. Jack the car up and twist the spring with your hand untill you cant spin it anymore and than use the key for like 1 or 2 more turns. Should i undo that? Its kinda hard to explain the feel that i get, but you say you can drive on the freeway without feeling bumps than mine arent doing that. Haha.

[racepar1]

I did what the instruction said to do. Jack the car up and twist the spring with your hand untill you cant spin it anymore and than use the key for like 1 or 2 more turns. Should i undo that? Its kinda hard to explain the feel that i get, but you say you can drive on the freeway without feeling bumps than mine arent doing that. Haha.

Take the instructions and throw them in the trash. Your front springs should be at pretty much 0 pre-load. That means that the collars are just tight enough on the spring to keep it completely seated. You should still be able to turn the spring by hand at 0 pre-load. If you have the GR+ pro's with the tender springs in the rear just compress the tender springs about 1/8"-1/4". If you do not have the tender springs just follow the same step as the front. All that pre-load is probably the reason why yours feel so jarring. I have my dampening set at 9 front and rear right now, but I am going to soften the rear to about 7. It is also possible that some of the harshness is due to bushing bind. I have fully adjustable arms and my energy bushings are VERY well greased as they have zerk fittings installed on them. When I was installing my rear coils I noticed that my suspension drooped all the way untill it hit something solid to make it stop and I could easily compress it all the way up by hand, well "easily" considering I was lifting an assembly that weighed 50lbs or so. I am beginning to form the opinion that the dreaded urethane bushing bind only applies when the bushings are dry. When they are well lubed I feel very little bind.

[Mikaelhinojosa]

You definitely need to play around with the adjusters to figure out what works best for your driving conditions. When I first got my Stance GR+ Pros, I thought "I want a soft ride so I'll set the adjusters to the softest or 1 or 2 clicks up". I thought the ride was horrible daily driving. I played with all different combinations of settings between the front and rear adjusters while staying under 4-5 clicks. Nothing felt right, the ride was always bouncy as hell. I thought to myself, "Why were people lying when they said that Stance coilovers felt like sporty OEM suspension when set to the softest settings?!" That was until I understood the mechanics of dampers more (not saying I know anything, just more than I did before).

I realized that for me, I had to have at least 6 clicks on the adjusters to have enough rebound for the 8/6 springs. Anything less resulted in a bouncy ride. I could be driving on the smoothest road and I would just be bouncing up and down for no reason. Once I set it to 6 clicks all around though, the ride was a lot better. Basically no more uncontrollable bouncing. When the road was smooth, the ride was smooth. The problem now was that the compression was a bit higher than ideal for daily driving so bumps would be felt a bit harder. Still, the ride felt pretty solid and I was happy with them overall.

I tried 7-8 clicks on the street but the compression was way too high then. On the track (grip and drift) though, I ran 8-10 clicks and was able to use the adjusters to dial out under/over steer as needed. I don't have enough suspension knowledge to be able to say anything other than they felt pretty good and were fun to drive on.

Thanks for this, I just ordered some GR+ (YEA ME!) and will use this info to get started on adjusting!

[GSXRJJordan]

When I was installing my rear coils I noticed that my suspension drooped all the way untill it hit something solid to make it stop and I could easily compress it all the way up by hand, well "easily" considering I was lifting an assembly that weighed 50lbs or so. I am beginning to form the opinion that the dreaded urethane bushing bind only applies when the bushings are dry. When they are well lubed I feel very little bind.

Wow, thats crazy lol. I remember looking at my rears (with stock bushings, before I swapped to Energy on the LCA), and they barely moved when I removed the coilover. I'll have to check them out now (approx 6k mi later) and see how much bind there is!

[ManoNegra]

Wow, thats crazy lol. I remember looking at my rears (with stock bushings, before I swapped to Energy on the LCA), and they barely moved when I removed the coilover. I'll have to check them out now (approx 6k mi later) and see how much bind there is!

That's pretty much how I feel
I'm not a fan of polyurethane bushings in arms
spherical bushings anyone?

[racepar1]

That's pretty much how I feel
I'm not a fan of polyurethane bushings in arms
spherical bushings anyone?

Keep your energy bushings greased and there is very little need for sphericals. It is when the bushings get dry that they bind like hell.

[ManoNegra]

I didn't install zerk fittings on mine
but I did grease them pretty well
still, don't really like the feel

and the spherical bushings will be homebrewed

edit:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7706/sphericalbushingteasexp3.jpg

actually what we were working on before
getting sidetracked by the KA oil blocks
-juan

[GSXRJJordan]

AWESOME! I'd love to get my hands on a few of those!

[e1_griego]

Hey my buddy is still waiting for your old Flexes that he paid for a couple/three weeks ago.

PM me and let me know what's up so I can pass it along to him.

[racepar1]

Hey my buddy is still waiting for your old Flexes that he paid for a couple/three weeks ago.

PM me and let me know what's up so I can pass it along to him.

I already sent him a PM. Please PM me rather then posting in threads. I have not ignored anyone that has sent me a PM about something they purchased.

[e1_griego]

Fair enough :)

[racepar1]

Fair enough :)

I just sent him a tracking # right now. Everything should be square at this point.

[racepar1]

I didn't install zerk fittings on mine
but I did grease them pretty well
still, don't really like the feel

and the spherical bushings will be homebrewed

edit:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7706/sphericalbushingteasexp3.jpg

actually what we were working on before
getting sidetracked by the KA oil blocks
-juan

Def sells bearings like that. I am actually going to buy a set off him if my damn federal return ever clears into my bank account. 10 days my ass!

[Def]

I didn't install zerk fittings on mine
but I did grease them pretty well
still, don't really like the feel

and the spherical bushings will be homebrewed

edit:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7706/sphericalbushingteasexp3.jpg

actually what we were working on before
getting sidetracked by the KA oil blocks
-juan

You happen to work at a machine shop? That design looks very familiar.

If you work at tower, I'm Jacob, the guy that talks to Mike on occasion.


The reason why urethane bushings aren't a great idea in the rear is that the spindle side of the arms don't stay perpendicular to the bushing's natural centerline. You end up with trying to compress bits of the urethane due to the natural geometry, and that's what causes lots of resistance over the full range of motion. With full sphericals and delrin RLCA bushings I could move my whole rear suspension minus shocks with one hand and it'd fall back down pretty quickly.

[racepar1]

You happen to work at a machine shop? That design looks very familiar.

If you work at tower, I'm Jacob, the guy that talks to Mike on occasion.


The reason why urethane bushings aren't a great idea in the rear is that the spindle side of the arms don't stay perpendicular to the bushing's natural centerline. You end up with trying to compress bits of the urethane due to the natural geometry, and that's what causes lots of resistance over the full range of motion. With full sphericals and delrin RLCA bushings I could move my whole rear suspension minus shocks with one hand and it'd fall back down pretty quickly.

It honestly surprised me how easily my suspension moved with my well greased bushings. I couldn't believe it! Don't get me wrong sphericals are better and I am still buying yours. It took two hands to push mine up, but it fell back down pretty fast.

[Mangudai]

The guy complaining about the ride with the stances probably has whack suspension set-up and has the adjusters almost all the way stiff. The uneducated seem to think that stiffer is almost always better. Idiots.....

Hell in my car on the way to willow springs I could hardly even feel the joints in the freeway. With my flexes I felt every single one.

That's great to hear, you've finalized my decision to purchase these.

[ManoNegra]

You happen to work at a machine shop? That design looks very familiar.

If you work at tower, I'm Jacob, the guy that talks to Mike on occasion.


The reason why urethane bushings aren't a great idea in the rear is that the spindle side of the arms don't stay perpendicular to the bushing's natural centerline. You end up with trying to compress bits of the urethane due to the natural geometry, and that's what causes lots of resistance over the full range of motion. With full sphericals and delrin RLCA bushings I could move my whole rear suspension minus shocks with one hand and it'd fall back down pretty quickly.


Yup Jacob, we've talked briefly
I have the same username of NRR
although I don't post there as much as I do here
-juan

[Def]

Yup Jacob, we've talked briefly
I have the same username of NRR
although I don't post there as much as I do here
-juan

Ok, now the name rings a bell.

I need to get in touch with Mike one of these days and get up to speed on the whole thing.

[rc1honda]

Wow im glad to read this. I hope my AL's perform in the same way. It's a little off topic but if any of you guys have any experience with the AL's LMK. The car is going to be weekend warrior/track mule. I was hoping that i woudn't lose my lunch over every bump.

[ManoNegra]

Ok, now the name rings a bell.

I need to get in touch with Mike one of these days and get up to speed on the whole thing.

yeah, got busy for a while
should have free time coming up
soon to resume the project

[SoSideways]

Wow im glad to read this. I hope my AL's perform in the same way. It's a little off topic but if any of you guys have any experience with the AL's LMK. The car is going to be weekend warrior/track mule. I was hoping that i woudn't lose my lunch over every bump.

You shouldn't.

The AL's probably have the same valving as the GR+ or GR+ Pro, just that the shock bodies are made out of aluminum I think, or at least the brackets are made out of aluminum, instead of steel, that's all.

[singlecamslam]

sorry to bring up a sort of old topic, but does anybody know if stance would sell one complete strut? I just blew my front driver side one. I emailed them but no answer so far.

[murda-c]

sorry to bring up a sort of old topic, but does anybody know if stance would sell one complete strut? I just blew my front driver side one. I emailed them but no answer so far.

Stance Coilovers - Replacement Parts - THMotorsports - Lowest Price Parts HKS Exhaust Apexi World Sport Koni Seibon Carbon Fiber ACT Exedy Clutch Skunk2 (http://thmotorsports.com/stance/stance_coilovers_replacement_parts/g-55936.aspx)

[Sthrteen]

what did you do to blow the strut? that's the first time I heard of this.
to my knowledge they sell struts at 150 ea. but its recommended to buy them by the pair.

[jackal264]

just got my stances in this week along with a pair of godspeed sways. now i just need to find time to install them.

[cdlong]

It honestly surprised me how easily my suspension moved with my well greased bushings. I couldn't believe it! Don't get me wrong sphericals are better and I am still buying yours. It took two hands to push mine up, but it fell back down pretty fast.

damn, sounds like i have some fixing to do. mine (poly inner, stock outter w/z32 uprights) is almost impossible to move. i might get some helper springs too for my KTS's.

[nieko]

The upper mount bearings are way too tight. So much so that the spring would pop when I turned the wheel as the bearing was not rotating. After running them at the track the front upper mount bearings seemed to free up a bit though[/quote]


the solution to this =

email stance, tell them you have the defective upper mount bearings.

they will gladly send you new ones no questions asked.

done.

i had the same problem.

[slideways2004]

i can't decide on the regular gr+ or the gr+ pros.. someone help me out. what is the benefit of a helper spring?? my car is pretty much track only and not street driven if that helps any. i will also be ordering mine with 9/7k

[GSXRJJordan]

i can't decide on the regular gr+ or the gr+ pros.. someone help me out. what is the benefit of a helper spring?? my car is pretty much track only and not street driven if that helps any. i will also be ordering mine with 9/7k

Helper spring assists with traction as you spin the rear wheels - they like to 'hop', and once they start hopping, its hard to regain traction - the helper springs almost completely eliminate it.

For drift, it wouldn't really matter.

[SoSideways]

Helper spring assists with traction as you spin the rear wheels - they like to 'hop', and once they start hopping, its hard to regain traction - the helper springs almost completely eliminate it.

For drift, it wouldn't really matter.

The helper springs have almost no spring rate, thus when the car settles on the ground after you lower the car from the jack, the helper springs just compress into a solid mass.

Helper springs are there to help keep the springs captive while the shock expands, giving you more droop travel, which means keeping the tire on the surface of the road/track while you're hauling ass around corners.

[mishimoto]

Great system. We have them on our Evo X. Drove it gumball style from Philadelphia to Vegas in 48 hours...they were flawless.

[racepar1]

the solution to this =

email stance, tell them you have the defective upper mount bearings.

they will gladly send you new ones no questions asked.

done.

i had the same problem.

I have the updated mounts.

[Def]

The helper springs have almost no spring rate, thus when the car settles on the ground after you lower the car from the jack, the helper springs just compress into a solid mass.

Helper springs are there to help keep the springs captive while the shock expands, giving you more droop travel, which means keeping the tire on the surface of the road/track while you're hauling ass around corners.

Helper springs don't give more effective droop travel. Tender springs do. The Stance ones are tender springs and have a spring rate. Helper springs only keep the springs from rattling around with the car jacked up, they don't actually extend the shock and apply load to the tire.

Real helper springs are about 0.015" thick, tender springs much more.



Just clearing that up, as that seems to be the source of confusion.

[racepar1]

The guesstimated spring rate for the tender springs is somewhere between .8kg-1.5kg (50ish-75ish lb/in). This is judging by what the swift helper springs are rated at and visually comparing the springs. That is enough rate to actually maintain some load on the tire when the main spring is fully extended.

[Dfigga]

my He's are a little bouncy. do you guys think they are blown?the dampening is all the way turned counter clockwise, full stiff i believe?

[ManoNegra]

my He's are a little bouncy. do you guys think they are blown?the dampening is all the way turned counter clockwise, full stiff i believe?

probably not
were they better before and are now feeling worse?
friend has a set on his S13
I had a set on my old S14 and just picked up another set
in my experience, HEs are bouncy and harsh for daily duty by nature

[cdlong]

The guesstimated spring rate for the tender springs is somewhere between .8kg-1.5kg (50ish-75ish lb/in). This is judging by what the swift helper springs are rated at and visually comparing the springs. That is enough rate to actually maintain some load on the tire when the main spring is fully extended.

according to Jeff at 240sx motoring, they are 1.7kg/mm (95lb/in) and 65mm ID. they have them for sale separately for $99, and it looks like they'll work on my KTS's.

[mr_240sx]

i loved my gr + pro's on my s13 that when i sold it and got my jzx90 i replaced my tein HA's for Stance's right away....cant wait for spring to test them out on the jzx90. I expect nothing less then how they performed on my s13.

[xsidewayzx]

if anyone is planning on getting go through enjuku, thats where i got mine gr+pro for $1150 free shipping

[blitzsti22]

what are the best stance for dd???

[alkemyst]

Just an FYI on those helper springs...it depends on coilover for their real purpose. Some provide a more 'progressive' feel to the whole coilover and others are just there to prevent the springs from unloading in the perches.

[racepar1]

Helper springs don't give more effective droop travel. Tender springs do. The Stance ones are tender springs and have a spring rate. Helper springs only keep the springs from rattling around with the car jacked up, they don't actually extend the shock and apply load to the tire.

Real helper springs are about 0.015" thick, tender springs much more.



Just clearing that up, as that seems to be the source of confusion.

^^^READ ABOVE^^^

Just an FYI on those helper springs...it depends on coilover for their real purpose. Some provide a more 'progressive' feel to the whole coilover and others are just there to prevent the springs from unloading in the perches.

Next time you post an "FYI" make sure you have the right information. In the case of a tender spring what it will make the suspension feel like depends on the rate of the tender spring and the rate of the main spring. I have not seen a tender spring that is stiff enough to not be fully compressed at ride heighth though. A "helper spring" is a different application then a tender spring is.

(thanks Def)

[Def]

BMW Gruppe N cars in the 90's and some H&R race stuff has a tender spring rate just slightly lower than the main spring to give a progressive rate when really loading up that corner. The overall rate was still high even with both springs in play.

I think this has to do with having to run stock length dampers I believe, so they went to a really high rate before the bumpstop gets into play to try to keep from running out of travel.

[alkemyst]

^^^READ ABOVE^^^



Next time you post an "FYI" make sure you have the right information. In the case of a tender spring what it will make the suspension feel like depends on the rate of the tender spring and the rate of the main spring. I have not seen a tender spring that is stiff enough to not be fully compressed at ride heighth though. A "helper spring" is a different application then a tender spring is.

(thanks Def)

My information was not wrong...most that would have a question with this aren't going to know the difference between tender vs helper springs and hence why I had stated 'depends on coilover'

Maybe you should go through all the swaybar threads and correct those people too.:bigok:

[racepar1]

My information was not wrong...most that would have a question with this aren't going to know the difference between tender vs helper springs and hence why I had stated 'depends on coilover'

Maybe you should go through all the swaybar threads and correct those people too.:bigok:

Your information WAS wrong. You failed to note the difference in definition between a tender spring and a helper spring. They are functionally different. Misinformation is bad. I know that tender springs are commonly (and mistakenly) referred to as helper springs, that doesn't mean that it's correct though. Def spread the correct information to me a while ago and now I am attempting to spread the correct information around as well. What's wrong with that?

I already have had many discussions in sway bar threads, but I don't see how that relates to anything here though.

[Odysseus]

what are the best stance for dd???

I daily my Stance GR+ Pro with them at full stiff and about 5 threads from slammed on the front. Its fine.

[soldiaboy]

i need some new coils, i have the flex and i cant stand them, the bounce is uncontrollable, i dunno what gives.

[alkemyst]

Your information WAS wrong. You failed to note the difference in definition between a tender spring and a helper spring. They are functionally different. Misinformation is bad. I know that tender springs are commonly (and mistakenly) referred to as helper springs, that doesn't mean that it's correct though. Def spread the correct information to me a while ago and now I am attempting to spread the correct information around as well. What's wrong with that?

I already have had many discussions in sway bar threads, but I don't see how that relates to anything here though.

There was nothing wrong with Def's info, I didn't see his comment. However; if one knows the difference between a helper and a tender spring that kind of info is worthless to them...chances are they aren't going to know enough on judging the wire gauge either.

Most coilovers refer to them as helpers.../thread.

In regards to the swaybars...you should make yourself active in correcting everyone to call them anti-sway bars.

jesus....

[racepar1]

There was nothing wrong with Def's info, I didn't see his comment. However; if one knows the difference between a helper and a tender spring that kind of info is worthless to them...chances are they aren't going to know enough on judging the wire gauge either.

Most coilovers refer to them as helpers.../thread.

In regards to the swaybars...you should make yourself active in correcting everyone to call them anti-sway bars.

jesus....

Ok whatever, you're the shit! Since pretty much the entire 240 population, including suspension manufacturers, uses the WRONG terminology in reference to the tender springs we shall now officially eliminate the term "tender spring" and refer to them all as "helper springs" from now on. This will allow the morons to feel smart and cool, and we all know how important that is. YAY idiots!

[alkemyst]

Ok whatever, you're the shit! Since pretty much the entire 240 population, including suspension manufacturers, uses the WRONG terminology in reference to the tender springs we shall now officially eliminate the term "tender spring" and refer to them all as "helper springs" from now on. This will allow the morons to feel smart and cool, and we all know how important that is. YAY idiots!

aren't you the one that's trying to feel smart and cool though? Unfortunately 'idiots' are common...getting all semantic on them is just playing like a grammar nazi on forums.

it's the same with sway bars, emergency brake, etc. I have no idea why this is such a crusade for you though.

I work in high level IT...if I used all the correct terminology in our meetings no one would fucking understand me.

[Def]

I work in high level IT...if I used all the correct terminology in our meetings no one would fucking understand me.

I'd hardly call the difference between a helper spring and a tender spring as "complicated terminology." There is a visual difference between the two, it's not like you need to take a set of calipers out to measure them to call them right.

...and I'd hardly call Stance "every coilover manufacturer." Everybody else I've seen gets it right.

[s14_mike]

so is it safe to assume that stance has fixed this whole binding spring issue on the coilovers that they are distributing now?

[MrChow]

so is it safe to assume that stance has fixed this whole binding spring issue on the coilovers that they are distributing now?

yes they have

[ROUGE180]

So I have Stance GR+ C/O's that purchased about 2 years ago. About a year ago I was expereincing reallllly bad binding on both of the fronts. I wrote to Stance and they sent me new top hats (probably not using the right term) that fixed the issue up until now. Now the driverside c/o is binding again. What can I do to combat this issue? I don't track this car but maybe the city potholes are part of the issue lol idk. Any experience with this? lmk ty.

[rb25crazy]

So I have Stance GR+ C/O's that purchased about 2 years ago. About a year ago I was expereincing reallllly bad binding on both of the fronts. I wrote to Stance and they sent me new top hats (probably not using the right term) that fixed the issue up until now. Now the driverside c/o is binding again. What can I do to combat this issue? I don't track this car but maybe the city potholes are part of the issue lol idk. Any experience with this? lmk ty.

what do you mean by binding the c/o? probably an idiot question but just wondering. does it make "creaky" sounds when your turn at low speeds like in a parking lot? j/w.

thanks

[ROUGE180]

It makes a springy "boing" kind of sound. and c/o (coilover) It happened before but the issue was fixed with spacers. The sound came back a year later. So I was changing my oil on Sunday and while the car was in the air I moved the spring itself around as I have no preload. Once the car was back on the ground and I drove it, the sound went away. There's another thread on here that went more in depth about the binding. I'm going to preload them and see what's the what.

what do you mean by binding the c/o? probably an idiot question but just wondering. does it make "creaky" sounds when your turn at low speeds like in a parking lot? j/w.

thanks

[Odysseus]

Is there any reason why mine should be bouncy when they are set to full stiff? They are fresh two month old ones.

[racepar1]

Is there any reason why mine should be bouncy when they are set to full stiff? They are fresh two month old ones.

Because you have the damping set too stiff. I have mine set to 8 or so in the front and 1 in the back.

[G240]

Is there any reason why Stance didn't put tender springs in the front? Would it help any? Or is it a waste of money if I wanted to add them. This would be for a DD.

I'm just curious considering for the Subaru's the tender spring is on both.

[DeadlyZ33]

just got mine for my z33, i think they come in 16/14k stiffness or something but it doesnt feel as stiff as I was expecting. Ride is nice

[racepar1]

Is there any reason why Stance didn't put tender springs in the front? Would it help any? Or is it a waste of money if I wanted to add them. This would be for a DD.

I'm just curious considering for the Subaru's the tender spring is on both.

They didn't put tender springs in the front because of the VERY limited amount of compression travel on the s-chasis front suspension. Don't use tender springs in the front with off the shelf coils, you will have almost no compression travel left.

[G240]

They didn't put tender springs in the front because of the VERY limited amount of compression travel on the s-chasis front suspension. Don't use tender springs in the front with off the shelf coils, you will have almost no compression travel left.

Thanks Race. That makes perfect sense.

[MADSilvia]

Just got mine on the car, I love them.
The only problem I have is when I turn the wheel the front spring makes a "clunk" noise. Anyone might know what that could be?

[alkemyst]

could be the top nuts or the perches not snug. I am not sure if the stance come with insulators, but if not you can just slice a piece of thin tubing and slide it over the top and bottoms of the springs.

[TravisSW]

I've had mine for almost a year, but i'm guilty of not getting an alignment yet. -.-

I'm set to 4/4 right now for dampening til I get some stuff done. As for springs, I have no clue what the spring ratios are. I just used the ones that where already put on and the extra ones they sent me are in my garage.

It's smooth with the road is smooth, but when it's horrible, well, the ride is pretty damn bouncy, but my rear end suspension is still stock, i'm on stretched tires in the rear, no alignment and bad subframe bushings, but other than that. I like 'em a lot. :)

[racepar1]

Well the stances performed pretty well at buttonwillow yesterday. I was crashing curbs pretty damn hard and they handled it pretty well. The ride on the way up and back was pretty good too. I was comfortably driving in the slow lane on the grapevine on the 5, which is REALLY torn up by trucks, and it was tolerable. I would agree that the stances do not handle large bumps well as far as ride quality goes, but I do not think any coilovers would. That is the price of stiff suspension.

[nieko]

Did the redline time attack yesterday? dope!

what was your time man?

sorry for offtopic... disregard i guess if you want lol just wanna know how the s13s do out there, my friend was there yesterday for his first time in a silver s2k with rpf1's. i heard that like all the evos took the trophys..

[racepar1]

Did the redline time attack yesterday? dope!

what was your time man?

sorry for offtopic... disregard i guess if you want lol just wanna know how the s13s do out there, my friend was there yesterday for his first time in a silver s2k with rpf1's. i heard that like all the evos took the trophys..

I ran a 2:10.xxx, i'm not sure on the exact time though because I didn't stay for the awards ceremony and they wouldn't post the final times untill after the damn awards. I finished about mid-pack, about what I expected. I am happy though. I think I did pretty well for it being my first time on the track and having a worn-out stock kade under the hood. Oh, I was running 245/45/17 re01r's in street class.

EDIT: I found the final resluts and I actually ran a 2:09.954. More info on the results can be found in my thread on the event in the motorsports section.

[tinys s14]

stance are definetly in my opinion one of the best. way better than teins. Teins ar so over rated i think

[racepar1]

stance are definetly in my opinion one of the best. way better than teins. Teins ar so over rated i think

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this statement. Stances are not bad, but nowhere near one of the best. I would rate tein above stance as well. Tein's are pretty good, I wouldn't quite say one of the best brands, but they aren't far away. The quality control procedures at tein are absolutely top notch. They are and ISO certified company, an ISO certification is not an easy thing to get.